Re: [OT] Alan Kay is angry

[Richmond Mathewson via use-livecode]

Indeed: And I'm always teaching others BY making mistakes!

Richmond.

On 9/19/17 2:04 am, Bob Sneidar via use-livecode wrote:

Awesome! I'm always teaching others to make mistakes!

Bob S



On Sep 18, 2017, at 16:00 , Mark Wieder via use-livecode 
 wrote:

Exactly. I always emphasize that the best way to learn is by making mistakes.

...or by trying to teach someone else... 

--
Mark Wieder
ahsoftw...@gmail.com


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Re: Jumping out of breakpoints and their propensity to multiply LC8.20dp1

[Monte Goulding via use-livecode]

I’ll see if I can work out what’s up. If you have a recipe can you post to this 
bug report:

http://quality.livecode.com/show_bug.cgi?id=20421 


> On 19 Sep 2017, at 11:14 am, James At The Hale via use-livecode 
>  wrote:
> 
> Just noting the recent post on triggers not triggering in 6.7 and all the 
> other non triggering trigger posts and wanted to report an additional quirk 
> with 8.2.
> 
> While trying to follow the formatting of the documents array for my last 
> project I was setting a breakpoint to activate at particular values.
> I would then be able to see the content of some variables, see the problem, 
> stop the script and change it and try again. Typical use, yes?
> 
> What I noticed this time, with 8.2, was that the position of the breakpoints 
> would move over this run, view, modify and run again cycle.
> 
> I don't mean move by a line or two i mean move by hundreds of lines.
> Move to lines that do not actually exist!
> 
> At one stage I had 7 breakpoints shown in the breakpoint pane whereas there 
> were only 2 in the script (red dots).
> 
> Usually at this stage it would then display the "now you see me now you 
> don't" action and jump out of the handler with now further action of 
> indication as to why.
> Observing this a few times it would seem that the script editor would hit the 
> breakpoint, stop, display something very very quickly and then the script 
> exited.
> The script stopping in its tracks and i am back in edit mode.
> 
> The only way to recover is to quit and restart and then delete all the 
> extraneous breakpoints.
> 
> I am on a Mac, using Sierra.
> 
> Has any one else seen these behaviors with 8.2?
> 
> James
> 
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Dash "Make DocSet" stack version 1.6. and non-Mac Dash readers

[James Hale via use-livecode]

The Dash "Make DocSet" stack has been updated to version 1.6. 

See the details below. Hopefully this will be the final update, although I see 
Monte has been modifying some doc formats. See below.

I have also noticed that Dash like readers exist on other platforms. Some paid 
for, some free. Given I do not have these platforms I can't report on how good 
they are, or not.

Windows: 
Velocity  

Linux (and Windows): 
Zeal   

Android: 
LovelyDocs


Version 1.6
• Reworked formatting scripts to to handle Description block as well as 
description blocks in Parameter and Value sections.
• Description blocks now handle correctly formatted code snippets.
• Description blocks now format lists (up to 2 levels) correctly.
• Reworked Examples section formatting to correctly group blocks of code.
• Added "Tags" values

Doc updates and formatting.
Those of you who have looked at the documentation files on GitHub may have 
noticed a certain lack of consistency in how they are formatted. Indeed when I 
put together the Data Grid guide I was at a loss as to how some things needed 
to be formatted as although they are mainly markdown they aren't completely.
Looking at the non doc files (xxx.ldoc) as well as the self generating aspects 
of widget docs and you can appreciate parsing these files is not always simple.
The work done on "LiveCode Documentation Format Reference" has really been a 
great help here.
However there are still many files that will need tweaking along the way.
Consequently the appearance of a document in Dash (or compatible reader) is 
very much dependant on the original source adhering to what is now understood 
re formatting. Of course this goes for my understanding of the formatting too 
:-)
Should there be any major changes I will endeavour to incorporate them in an 
update to "Make DocSet"


James






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Jumping out of breakpoints and their propensity to multiply LC8.20dp1

[James At The Hale via use-livecode]

Just noting the recent post on triggers not triggering in 6.7 and all the other 
non triggering trigger posts and wanted to report an additional quirk with 8.2.

While trying to follow the formatting of the documents array for my last 
project I was setting a breakpoint to activate at particular values.
I would then be able to see the content of some variables, see the problem, 
stop the script and change it and try again. Typical use, yes?

What I noticed this time, with 8.2, was that the position of the breakpoints 
would move over this run, view, modify and run again cycle.

I don't mean move by a line or two i mean move by hundreds of lines.
Move to lines that do not actually exist!

At one stage I had 7 breakpoints shown in the breakpoint pane whereas there 
were only 2 in the script (red dots).

Usually at this stage it would then display the "now you see me now you don't" 
action and jump out of the handler with now further action of indication as to 
why.
Observing this a few times it would seem that the script editor would hit the 
breakpoint, stop, display something very very quickly and then the script 
exited.
The script stopping in its tracks and i am back in edit mode.

The only way to recover is to quit and restart and then delete all the 
extraneous breakpoints.

I am on a Mac, using Sierra.

Has any one else seen these behaviors with 8.2?

James

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[OT] Alan Kay is angry

[Alejandro Tejada via use-livecode]

I learned this again, a few weeks ago, in the forum:

After many developers explained to a newbie the same concept
in many different ways, this person said: Yes, I understand...
but when this person tried to apply these concepts in a stack,
we learned that these explanations were not clear enough.

This platform needs more, much more, step by step
instructions for every important concept and technique
employed in LiveCode programming.

Al

William Prothero wrote:
> As education tech folks, we try to make the content we want to
> present as clear, easy, and transparent as possible. In our effort,
> we may be reinforcing expectations that gaining knowledge
> should be easy. But, what is actually accomplished may be
> memorization and a shallow understanding of how existing
> knowledge can be used to explore and enhance new knowledge.
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Re: Behaviors

[Devin Asay via use-livecode]

Sorry, I should have said “Use 'before menuPick' or 'after menuPick' instead of 
‘on menuPick’.


On Sep 18, 2017, at 5:21 PM, Devin Asay via use-livecode 
> wrote:

Bob,

Maybe the best way to do this is to use the before or after control structure 
in the behavior, rather than the menuPick.

before menuPick pItem
 # do common behavior stuff here
end menuPick

That leaves the menuPick handler unencumbered in the actual object.

Devin

On Sep 18, 2017, at 5:14 PM, Bob Sneidar via use-livecode 
>
 wrote:

Hi all.

I've decided to start in on behaviors now as I have so much code that is 
effectively identical. So I took the code from a menu/button with a menuPick 
handler and put it in another button, then set the behavior of the first button 
to the long id of the second. I then set a breakpoint in the behavior script. I 
still have a menuPick handler in the first button to handle special case menu 
items for that card, but I commented out the code that is common between them.

The trouble is, selecting the menu item does not trigger the behavior. I tried 
setting pass menuPick in each one, but still no bueno. So which one gets the 
message first/at all? The behavior or the actual button?

Bob S



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Devin Asay
Director
Office of Digital Humanities
Brigham Young University

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Devin Asay
Director
Office of Digital Humanities
Brigham Young University

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Re: Behaviors

[Devin Asay via use-livecode]

Bob,

Maybe the best way to do this is to use the before or after control structure 
in the behavior, rather than the menuPick.

before menuPick pItem
  # do common behavior stuff here
end menuPick

That leaves the menuPick handler unencumbered in the actual object.

Devin

On Sep 18, 2017, at 5:14 PM, Bob Sneidar via use-livecode 
> wrote:

Hi all.

I've decided to start in on behaviors now as I have so much code that is 
effectively identical. So I took the code from a menu/button with a menuPick 
handler and put it in another button, then set the behavior of the first button 
to the long id of the second. I then set a breakpoint in the behavior script. I 
still have a menuPick handler in the first button to handle special case menu 
items for that card, but I commented out the code that is common between them.

The trouble is, selecting the menu item does not trigger the behavior. I tried 
setting pass menuPick in each one, but still no bueno. So which one gets the 
message first/at all? The behavior or the actual button?

Bob S



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Devin Asay
Director
Office of Digital Humanities
Brigham Young University

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Behaviors

[Bob Sneidar via use-livecode]

Hi all. 

I've decided to start in on behaviors now as I have so much code that is 
effectively identical. So I took the code from a menu/button with a menuPick 
handler and put it in another button, then set the behavior of the first button 
to the long id of the second. I then set a breakpoint in the behavior script. I 
still have a menuPick handler in the first button to handle special case menu 
items for that card, but I commented out the code that is common between them. 

The trouble is, selecting the menu item does not trigger the behavior. I tried 
setting pass menuPick in each one, but still no bueno. So which one gets the 
message first/at all? The behavior or the actual button?

Bob S



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Re: [OT] Alan Kay is angry

[Bob Sneidar via use-livecode]

Awesome! I'm always teaching others to make mistakes! 

Bob S


> On Sep 18, 2017, at 16:00 , Mark Wieder via use-livecode 
>  wrote:
> 
> Exactly. I always emphasize that the best way to learn is by making mistakes.
> 
> ...or by trying to teach someone else... 
> 
> -- 
> Mark Wieder
> ahsoftw...@gmail.com


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Re: [OT] Alan Kay is angry

[Mark Wieder via use-livecode]

On 09/18/2017 09:07 AM, William Prothero via use-livecode wrote:


One of the most interesting ideas I’ve heard recently, in education, is the idea 
that it’s very important to emphasize the “struggle” to learn. If students can learn 
that the “struggle" to acquire knowledge and understanding is vital, normal, 
and will be rewarding, they will become better lifelong learners.


Exactly. I always emphasize that the best way to learn is by making 
mistakes.


...or by trying to teach someone else... 

--
 Mark Wieder
 ahsoftw...@gmail.com



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[OT] Alan Kay is angry

[Alejandro Tejada via use-livecode]

There are many critics about the dumbing down of education in many
countries, but only in USA, critics could afford to publish and sell
their ideas:

https://www.amazon.com/Dumbing-Down-America-Nations-Brightest/dp/1618211668

Just imagine that in the country where I live, to get a paying work in
Education, a person just needs the endorsement of a politician or a
bureaucrat... nothing else is needed or required.

For this reason, you could find daily news about party members that have
their whole family receiving US$ 2,000 (or more) monthly as public
employees in the Education Public system or...
Plantation owners who receive a check from the government for every field
worker that is listed as worker in our Education Public system.

By the way, Do you know that in the country where I live, any of you have a
better chance of receiving a payment from the government for your work,
thanks to the services of your country's Embassy?
That's a clear and definite advantage for every foreign worker or
consultant.

How many of you would want to work for a government that requires that an
Embassy collect the payments for your work? :-o

Al

Bob Sneidar wrote:
> I think it's a huge mistake to try and treat
> all children as though they are capable of
> learning as well as the top 10 percentile.
> This approach has been disasterous in american
> schools, because what actually happens is,
> classes become tailored to the lowest percentile
> of students to try and bring them along, and those
> who might have excelled are held back until a stage
> in their development where it is likely too late.
> In America, we call that "equality".
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SivaSiva iOS App Approved - Android Issues/AcceleratedRendering issues

[Sannyasin Brahmanathaswami via use-livecode]

We are very happy to announce that Apple approved SivaSiva App V1 and it is now 
available at the app store.  search for "SivaSiva" all one word.

https://itunes.apple.com/us/app/spiritual-workout/id1271260502?mt=8

But we still have problems with the Android version.

you can download RC7 for Android SivaSiva.apk from here

http://dev.himalayanacademy.com/looklisten/apps/sivasiva/

open thatpage on your android device, scroll down to the link.

-
Issue: Android Standalone built with 8.1.7-rc-1

whenever we use the home button or app switcher in the app.

if the stack we are leaving from has acceleratedRendering set to true (all most 
all stacks) when we return to the app from going out via HOME or App switcher 
it crashes on Android.

For details:

see bug 20419

Brahmanathaswami






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Re: Constraining an input field's contents to be a single line.

[Mike Kerner via use-livecode]

If you have a mobile text field object, then have you looked at
inputReturnKey?


On Mon, Sep 18, 2017 at 4:17 PM, Alex Tweedly via use-livecode <
use-livecode@lists.runrev.com> wrote:

> I'm sure there must be an easy way I'm missing . he said in hope :-)
>
> I want a field to contain a single line of data - i.. no CRs.
>
> I've done the easy bit (a handler for returninfield).
>
> I can even do the moderate bit -  a 'pastekey' handler, and check for CRs
> in the clipboard - but that doesn't apply to mobile (or at least, the dict
> says it doesn't).
>
> Is there any way to handle it on mobile ?
>
> Thanks
> Alex.
>
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-- 
On the first day, God created the heavens and the Earth
On the second day, God created the oceans.
On the third day, God put the animals on hold for a few hours,
   and did a little diving.
And God said, "This is good."
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Re: LiveCode 8.2.0 DP-1 Dropping Keystrokes in IDE

[Monte Goulding via use-livecode]

> On 19 Sep 2017, at 1:07 am, Mark Wieder via use-livecode 
>  wrote:
> 
> FWIW, the glx2 script editor aggregates the necessary information for 
> autocompletion when you load a new script. There's a negligible delay at 
> startup while it parses all the stacks in use, but then no delay while you're 
> editing. Might be worth refactoring the SE if it's actually doing a lookup 
> for every keystroke.

No autocomplete doesn’t do all that much more per keystroke than the SE did 
previously unless you are editing placeholders. It was getting the linkText of 
the selection though and this takes a surprisingly long time for fields with a 
lot of content. I’ve tweaked things so it does’t need to do that.

Cheers

Monte
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Constraining an input field's contents to be a single line.

[Alex Tweedly via use-livecode]

I'm sure there must be an easy way I'm missing . he said in hope :-)

I want a field to contain a single line of data - i.. no CRs.

I've done the easy bit (a handler for returninfield).

I can even do the moderate bit -  a 'pastekey' handler, and check for 
CRs in the clipboard - but that doesn't apply to mobile (or at least, 
the dict says it doesn't).


Is there any way to handle it on mobile ?

Thanks
Alex.

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Re: [OT] Alan Kay is angry

[William Prothero via use-livecode]

Thanks, Richmond!

This brings me to another thought I’ve been having. I’m retired now, but still 
doing education projects as a hobby. What I would really love to be involved in 
is an interest group whose goal is to create and distribute innovative 
education applications in livecode. I know that many of us are already doing 
that, and that there is a seldom used thread in the forum for education, which 
I suspect isn’t all that attractive for educators because there are so few 
postings.

Anyway, I’d be interested in anybody’s thoughts. Personally, I know that all IT 
is evolving. Anything that isn’t regularly nourished with updates, new ideas, 
new content, etc, will die and disappear, just like we mortals. I’d love to 
contribute to education resources that continue, in some form, after I can no 
longer participate. Some kind of mutual endeavor, perhaps with common 
frameworks, modern pedagogy, teachers and IT specialists involved, would be 
very rewarding to me.

Best,
Bill

> On Sep 18, 2017, at 9:44 AM, Richmond Mathewson via use-livecode 
>  wrote:
> 
> Wow: Bill . . . you have put your point so very well: that should be engraved 
> on stone and tattooed onto every teacher's head!
> 
> Thanks so much.
> 
> Richmond.
> 
> On 9/18/17 7:07 pm, William Prothero via use-livecode wrote:
>> Folks:
>> Because livecode is so relevant for education, I suppose this is a 
>> reasonable discussion for the users list. So, I will add another 2 cents.
>> 
>> One of the most interesting ideas I’ve heard recently, in education, is the 
>> idea that it’s very important to emphasize the “struggle” to learn. If 
>> students can learn that the “struggle" to acquire knowledge and 
>> understanding is vital, normal, and will be rewarding, they will become 
>> better lifelong learners.
>> 
>> As education tech folks, we try to make the content we want to present as 
>> clear, easy, and transparent as possible. In our effort, we may be 
>> reinforcing expectations that gaining knowledge should be easy. But, what is 
>> actually accomplished may be memorization and a shallow understanding of how 
>> existing knowledge can be used to explore and enhance new knowledge.
>> 
>> Best,
>> Bill P
>> 
>>> On Sep 18, 2017, at 8:41 AM, Bob Sneidar via use-livecode 
>>>  wrote:
>>> 
>>> Reading through that article, I get the sense that he believes that people 
>>> are not educated or intellegent because the system of education is wholly 
>>> responsible for failing to do so. Intellegent people often make this 
>>> miscalculation, that they believe intellegence is something that can be 
>>> nurtured. I disagree.
>>> 
>>> I think we can do a lot to maximize the mental health and growth of each 
>>> individual child, but every child is different, and only a few will ever 
>>> excel. Alan Kay seems like one of those few, and is frustrated that more 
>>> people cannot be made to think like him. With all my experience with 
>>> people, trying to teach them just to use the technology in front of them to 
>>> good advantage, I have come to believe that this is a fools errand. Some 
>>> people cannot learn much more, but most simply WILL NOT learn. They only 
>>> absorb enough technology to get them by.
>>> 
>>> I think it's a huge mistake to try and treat all children as though they 
>>> are capable of learning as well as the top 10 percentile. This approach has 
>>> been disasterous in american schools, because what actually happens is, 
>>> classes become tailored to the lowest percentile of students to try and 
>>> bring them along, and those who might have excelled are held back until a 
>>> stage in their development where it is likely too late. In America, we call 
>>> that "equality".
>>> 
>>> In Europe (I have heard) or at least in some countries, exceptional 
>>> children are noted and are put on a path of higher learning that the others 
>>> are not. This would give mose high level school administrators in America 
>>> caniption fits to even suggest this. We would have riots in our streets. I 
>>> fear we are not long for the 1st world.
>>> 
>>> Bob S
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
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>> 
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Re: Breakpoint

[Bob Sneidar via use-livecode]

Yes. First, clear all breakpoints from the Debug menu of the Script Editor. 
Next, in a script editor window, towards the bottom, there is a Breakpoints 
tab. If any breakpoints remain, delete them. Save your app, quit and relaunch 
LC. Breakpoints *should* trigger normally again. 

If that does not work, then try this: I have noticed that at times, and for 
reasons unknown (maybe from copy/pasting) non-printing characters get into a 
script and can mess it up in different ways. It's a long shot, but copy the 
whole contents of the script, paste it into a text only application like 
TextEdit on a Mac or Notepad for Windows (not WordPad that is word lite). Then 
copy THAT and paste back into the script editor. 

Failing that, you may want to submit a bug report but LC is no longer actively 
developing for V6, if I am not mistaken so don't hold your breath. 

Bob S


> On Sep 18, 2017, at 11:21 , Jean-Jacques Wagner via use-livecode 
>  wrote:
> 
> Hallo
> Still working with on 6.7.7 but experiencing a lot of troubles with 
> breakpoint, can’t set, have to activate before each run otherwise don’t 
> trigger. Script debugging become a nightmare. I’ll never have seen such a bad 
> behavior. Does anyone nows how to circumvent this missbehavior.
> 
> Jean-Jacques Wagner 

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Breakpoint

[Jean-Jacques Wagner via use-livecode]

Hallo
Still working with on 6.7.7 but experiencing a lot of troubles with breakpoint, 
can’t set, have to activate before each run otherwise don’t trigger. Script 
debugging become a nightmare. I’ll never have seen such a bad behavior. Does 
anyone nows how to circumvent this missbehavior.

Jean-Jacques Wagner 


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Re: [OT] Alan Kay is angry

[Richmond Mathewson via use-livecode]

Wow: Bill . . . you have put your point so very well: that should be 
engraved on stone and tattooed onto every teacher's head!


Thanks so much.

Richmond.

On 9/18/17 7:07 pm, William Prothero via use-livecode wrote:

Folks:
Because livecode is so relevant for education, I suppose this is a reasonable 
discussion for the users list. So, I will add another 2 cents.

One of the most interesting ideas I’ve heard recently, in education, is the idea 
that it’s very important to emphasize the “struggle” to learn. If students can learn 
that the “struggle" to acquire knowledge and understanding is vital, normal, 
and will be rewarding, they will become better lifelong learners.

As education tech folks, we try to make the content we want to present as 
clear, easy, and transparent as possible. In our effort, we may be reinforcing 
expectations that gaining knowledge should be easy. But, what is actually 
accomplished may be memorization and a shallow understanding of how existing 
knowledge can be used to explore and enhance new knowledge.

Best,
Bill P


On Sep 18, 2017, at 8:41 AM, Bob Sneidar via use-livecode 
 wrote:

Reading through that article, I get the sense that he believes that people are 
not educated or intellegent because the system of education is wholly 
responsible for failing to do so. Intellegent people often make this 
miscalculation, that they believe intellegence is something that can be 
nurtured. I disagree.

I think we can do a lot to maximize the mental health and growth of each 
individual child, but every child is different, and only a few will ever excel. 
Alan Kay seems like one of those few, and is frustrated that more people cannot 
be made to think like him. With all my experience with people, trying to teach 
them just to use the technology in front of them to good advantage, I have come 
to believe that this is a fools errand. Some people cannot learn much more, but 
most simply WILL NOT learn. They only absorb enough technology to get them by.

I think it's a huge mistake to try and treat all children as though they are capable of 
learning as well as the top 10 percentile. This approach has been disasterous in american 
schools, because what actually happens is, classes become tailored to the lowest 
percentile of students to try and bring them along, and those who might have excelled are 
held back until a stage in their development where it is likely too late. In America, we 
call that "equality".

In Europe (I have heard) or at least in some countries, exceptional children 
are noted and are put on a path of higher learning that the others are not. 
This would give mose high level school administrators in America caniption fits 
to even suggest this. We would have riots in our streets. I fear we are not 
long for the 1st world.

Bob S



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Re: Testing iOS apps on attached device

[J. Landman Gay via use-livecode]

You're right, the profile is embedded in the app. I was just wondering if 
Xcode was doing some extra manipulation. Probably not, but you might check 
to be sure there are no expired profiles in keychain.


--
Jacqueline Landman Gay | jac...@hyperactivesw.com
HyperActive Software   | http://www.hyperactivesw.com



On September 18, 2017 4:03:56 AM Ben Rubinstein via use-livecode 
 wrote:



Hi Jacque,

Thanks for helping.


Check to be sure that the profile in standalone settings is the same one
that XCode is using.


How would that work? Surely the profile is backed into the app when the
Standalone Builder builds the standalone? (I'm not building the app with
Xcode, just using it to install the app that LC built on to my phone.) Does
Xcode have a separate profile to install a app - if so where would I find that?

many thanks,

Ben


On 16/09/2017 22:08, J. Landman Gay via use-livecode wrote:

On 9/16/17 1:40 PM, Ben Rubinstein via use-livecode wrote:

Thanks for the reply, and I certainly have had that problem often enough -
but not this time. I can build a standalone, and use Xcode to install it on
the phone; and it works. So I don't have a provisioning profile issue in
this case.


Check to be sure that the profile in standalone settings is the same one that
XCode is using.



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Re: How to debug a hard crash of a windows standalone nowadays?

[Tom Glod via use-livecode]

jsut a shot in the dark.lol if you are hiding taskbar by any
chancethere is a bug associated with that that gives a really hard
crash.



On Mon, Sep 18, 2017 at 11:59 AM, J. Landman Gay via use-livecode <
use-livecode@lists.runrev.com> wrote:

> Have you tried the new remote debugging feature?
>
> --
> Jacqueline Landman Gay | jac...@hyperactivesw.com
> HyperActive Software   | 
> http://post.spmailt.com/f/a/QrRlSOY_h47GYJWq7U6jqg~~/AAGp3AA~/RgRboSLfP0EIACzdianzAcRXA3NwY1gEAFkGc2hhcmVkYQdoZWxsb18xYA01Mi4zOS4xODIuMjQ4QgoAAF_vv1mD_L-6Uh11c2UtbGl2ZWNvZGVAbGlzdHMucnVucmV2LmNvbQlRBABEHGh0dHA6Ly93d3cuaHlwZXJhY3RpdmVzdy5jb21HAnt9
>
>
>
>
> On September 18, 2017 8:34:01 AM Malte Pfaff-Brill via use-livecode <
> use-livecode@lists.runrev.com> wrote:
>
> Hi Folks,
>>
>> I have a windows standalone that has been moved from 6 to 8 crashing
>> reliably (only the standalone). How do we debug situations like this
>> nowadays?
>> I vaguely recall there was a crash report external back in the day, but I
>> do not remember.
>>
>> Any pointers?
>>
>> Cheers,
>>
>> Malte
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>>
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Re: [OT] Alan Kay is angry

[William Prothero via use-livecode]

Folks:
Because livecode is so relevant for education, I suppose this is a reasonable 
discussion for the users list. So, I will add another 2 cents.

One of the most interesting ideas I’ve heard recently, in education, is the 
idea that it’s very important to emphasize the “struggle” to learn. If students 
can learn that the “struggle" to acquire knowledge and understanding is vital, 
normal, and will be rewarding, they will become better lifelong learners.

As education tech folks, we try to make the content we want to present as 
clear, easy, and transparent as possible. In our effort, we may be reinforcing 
expectations that gaining knowledge should be easy. But, what is actually 
accomplished may be memorization and a shallow understanding of how existing 
knowledge can be used to explore and enhance new knowledge.

Best,
Bill P

> On Sep 18, 2017, at 8:41 AM, Bob Sneidar via use-livecode 
>  wrote:
> 
> Reading through that article, I get the sense that he believes that people 
> are not educated or intellegent because the system of education is wholly 
> responsible for failing to do so. Intellegent people often make this 
> miscalculation, that they believe intellegence is something that can be 
> nurtured. I disagree. 
> 
> I think we can do a lot to maximize the mental health and growth of each 
> individual child, but every child is different, and only a few will ever 
> excel. Alan Kay seems like one of those few, and is frustrated that more 
> people cannot be made to think like him. With all my experience with people, 
> trying to teach them just to use the technology in front of them to good 
> advantage, I have come to believe that this is a fools errand. Some people 
> cannot learn much more, but most simply WILL NOT learn. They only absorb 
> enough technology to get them by. 
> 
> I think it's a huge mistake to try and treat all children as though they are 
> capable of learning as well as the top 10 percentile. This approach has been 
> disasterous in american schools, because what actually happens is, classes 
> become tailored to the lowest percentile of students to try and bring them 
> along, and those who might have excelled are held back until a stage in their 
> development where it is likely too late. In America, we call that "equality". 
> 
> In Europe (I have heard) or at least in some countries, exceptional children 
> are noted and are put on a path of higher learning that the others are not. 
> This would give mose high level school administrators in America caniption 
> fits to even suggest this. We would have riots in our streets. I fear we are 
> not long for the 1st world. 
> 
> Bob S
> 
> 
> 
> ___
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> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription 
> preferences:
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Re: How to debug a hard crash of a windows standalone nowadays?

[J. Landman Gay via use-livecode]

Have you tried the new remote debugging feature?

--
Jacqueline Landman Gay | jac...@hyperactivesw.com
HyperActive Software   | http://www.hyperactivesw.com



On September 18, 2017 8:34:01 AM Malte Pfaff-Brill via use-livecode 
 wrote:



Hi Folks,

I have a windows standalone that has been moved from 6 to 8 crashing 
reliably (only the standalone). How do we debug situations like this nowadays?
I vaguely recall there was a crash report external back in the day, but I 
do not remember.


Any pointers?

Cheers,

Malte
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Re: [OT] Alan Kay is angry

[Bob Sneidar via use-livecode]

Reading through that article, I get the sense that he believes that people are 
not educated or intellegent because the system of education is wholly 
responsible for failing to do so. Intellegent people often make this 
miscalculation, that they believe intellegence is something that can be 
nurtured. I disagree. 

I think we can do a lot to maximize the mental health and growth of each 
individual child, but every child is different, and only a few will ever excel. 
Alan Kay seems like one of those few, and is frustrated that more people cannot 
be made to think like him. With all my experience with people, trying to teach 
them just to use the technology in front of them to good advantage, I have come 
to believe that this is a fools errand. Some people cannot learn much more, but 
most simply WILL NOT learn. They only absorb enough technology to get them by. 

I think it's a huge mistake to try and treat all children as though they are 
capable of learning as well as the top 10 percentile. This approach has been 
disasterous in american schools, because what actually happens is, classes 
become tailored to the lowest percentile of students to try and bring them 
along, and those who might have excelled are held back until a stage in their 
development where it is likely too late. In America, we call that "equality". 

In Europe (I have heard) or at least in some countries, exceptional children 
are noted and are put on a path of higher learning that the others are not. 
This would give mose high level school administrators in America caniption fits 
to even suggest this. We would have riots in our streets. I fear we are not 
long for the 1st world. 

Bob S



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Re: [OT] Alan Kay is angry

[Mike Bonner via use-livecode]

I agree for the most part.  At this point, my hope is that people will
clean the slate and kick everyone currently in office to the curb.  Won't
happen of course.

Honestly though, I don't see how ANY politician, no matter how well
intention-ed can get through the process of attaining office intact.  The
pressures, sheer volume of money and influence being peddled...  Its a
rather large mess.


"The system is sound. The politicians who only subscibe to the rule of law
when it suits their cause, and not otherwise are the problem. And also
people who keep voting for the politicians who demonstrate such a degree of
irresponsibility are to blame. The actual system works wonderfully, so long
as everyone subscribes to it, and those who promise to and don't are held
accountable."



On Mon, Sep 18, 2017 at 9:17 AM, Bob Sneidar via use-livecode <
use-livecode@lists.runrev.com> wrote:

> The system is sound. The politicians who only subscibe to the rule of law
> when it suits their cause, and not otherwise are the problem. And also
> people who keep voting for the politicians who demonstrate such a degree of
> irresponsibility are to blame. The actual system works wonderfully, so long
> as everyone subscribes to it, and those who promise to and don't are held
> accountable.
>
> Bob S
>
>
> > On Sep 17, 2017, at 09:49 , Erik Beugelaar via use-livecode <
> use-livecode@lists.runrev.com> wrote:
> >
> > Whole political system of the USA is sick.
>
>
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Re: [OT] Alan Kay is angry

[Bob Sneidar via use-livecode]

One of my beefs with Miscrosoft is all the times they butt in and try to help 
me when I am trying to get something done. I liken their systems to the little 
brother who kept tagging along wanting to help, yanking on my pants leg, and 
all he really did was get in the way and force me to deal with him. 

I hated that little paper clip. The first thing I did was find a way to turn it 
off on every system I touched. But I still get balloons and dialogs popping up 
right in the middle of doing something, because when else can the system 
interrupt me? It has to wait until I am active. Very irritating. 

Bob S


> On Sep 17, 2017, at 08:34 , Alejandro Tejada via use-livecode 
>  wrote:
> 
> If I remember well, the characters could be used
> by developers within their own applications as
> program helper and intelligent assistants.


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Re: [OT] Alan Kay is angry

[Bob Sneidar via use-livecode]

The system is sound. The politicians who only subscibe to the rule of law when 
it suits their cause, and not otherwise are the problem. And also people who 
keep voting for the politicians who demonstrate such a degree of 
irresponsibility are to blame. The actual system works wonderfully, so long as 
everyone subscribes to it, and those who promise to and don't are held 
accountable. 

Bob S


> On Sep 17, 2017, at 09:49 , Erik Beugelaar via use-livecode 
>  wrote:
> 
> Whole political system of the USA is sick. 


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Re: LiveCode 8.2.0 DP-1 Dropping Keystrokes in IDE

[Mark Wieder via use-livecode]

On 09/18/2017 08:07 AM, Mark Wieder via use-livecode wrote:
you're editing. Might be worth refactoring the SE if it's actually doing 
a lookup for every keystroke. 


sorry... I meant moomin...

--
 Mark Wieder
 ahsoftw...@gmail.com

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Re: LiveCode 8.2.0 DP-1 Dropping Keystrokes in IDE

[Mark Wieder via use-livecode]

On 09/17/2017 05:46 PM, J. Landman Gay via use-livecode wrote:

I'd guess it's the 7000 lines. The autocomplete lookups may not be able 
to deal with that much text fast enough. Does it work for you with a 
tiny little script? How about if you type one letter at a time and count 
to five in between? Or 10?


FWIW, the glx2 script editor aggregates the necessary information for 
autocompletion when you load a new script. There's a negligible delay at 
startup while it parses all the stacks in use, but then no delay while 
you're editing. Might be worth refactoring the SE if it's actually doing 
a lookup for every keystroke.


--
 Mark Wieder
 ahsoftw...@gmail.com

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Re: read from file until a line begins with a certain word

[Bob Sneidar via use-livecode]

How about read for x characters, put the last line in a buffer and remove it 
from the read text, process the read text, read the next block, prepend the 
buffer line. 

Bob S


> On Sep 16, 2017, at 17:50 , Matthias Rebbe via use-livecode 
>  wrote:
> 
> Hi,
> 
> until today i used always put URL to read a complete file into memory. But 
> now i have to process  really large text files with a size of 900 - 1500 MB.
> I know i can read a file until EOF or so.
> 
> But how would i read a file until a line that starts with a certain keyword, 
> e.g. mstart. I need to read until the line before that line which starts with 
> mstart.
> And then read from that “mstart” line until the next line before “mstart”.
> Do i have to read line by line and check if the line starts with that keyword 
> or is there also an other way? 
> 
> Maybe i am thinking to complicated.
> 
> Regards,
> Matthias
> 
> 
> 
> Matthias Rebbe

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Re: LiveCode 8.2.0 DP-1 Dropping Keystrokes in IDE

[Bob Sneidar via use-livecode]

Hi Scott. DP means Developer Preview. It's not meant for production 
environments. It's so we can test new feathres before release. I'd definitely 
use 8.1.5 oe earlier. 

Bob S


> On Sep 17, 2017, at 21:20 , RunRevPlanet via use-livecode 
>  wrote:
> 
> Basically, I cannot use 8.2.0 DP-1, so that is one extra set of eyes that are
> not going to be going over it looking for bugs.
> 
> I hope 8.2.0 DP-2 comes out soon and fixes this issue.
> 
> --
> Scott McDonald
> http://thelivecodelab.com/


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Re: How to debug a hard crash of a windows standalone nowadays?

[Mike Kerner via use-livecode]

I generally embed debugging code so I can find out where the issue is.  You
can write info to a log file, a dialog, etc.

On Mon, Sep 18, 2017 at 9:31 AM, Malte Pfaff-Brill via use-livecode <
use-livecode@lists.runrev.com> wrote:

> Hi Folks,
>
> I have a windows standalone that has been moved from 6 to 8 crashing
> reliably (only the standalone). How do we debug situations like this
> nowadays?
> I vaguely recall there was a crash report external back in the day, but I
> do not remember.
>
> Any pointers?
>
> Cheers,
>
> Malte
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-- 
On the first day, God created the heavens and the Earth
On the second day, God created the oceans.
On the third day, God put the animals on hold for a few hours,
   and did a little diving.
And God said, "This is good."
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[ANN] This Week in LiveCode 98

[panagiotis merakos via use-livecode]

Hi all,

Read about new developments in LiveCode open source and the open source
community in today's edition of the "This Week in LiveCode" newsletter!

Read issue #98 here: https://goo.gl/XQvDRd

This is a weekly newsletter about LiveCode, focussing on what's been
going on in and around the open source project. New issues will be
released weekly on Mondays. We have a dedicated mailing list that will
deliver each issue directly to you e-mail, so you don't miss any!

If you have anything you'd like mentioned (a project, a discussion
somewhere, an upcoming event) then please get in touch.

-- 
Panagiotis Merakos 
LiveCode Software Developer

Everyone Can Create Apps 
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How to debug a hard crash of a windows standalone nowadays?

[Malte Pfaff-Brill via use-livecode]

Hi Folks,

I have a windows standalone that has been moved from 6 to 8 crashing reliably 
(only the standalone). How do we debug situations like this nowadays?
I vaguely recall there was a crash report external back in the day, but I do 
not remember.

Any pointers?

Cheers,

Malte
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Re: LiveCode 8.2.0 DP-1 Dropping Keystrokes in IDE

[Mark Waddingham via use-livecode]

On 2017-09-18 08:13, RunRevPlanet via use-livecode wrote:

No worries, I always use TTF Courier New, so yes it is monospaced.

Ugly? Maybe! But for me very readable, and installed almost everywhere.


FWIW I think I fixed this first thing today:

   https://github.com/livecode/livecode/pull/5949

The windows key handling code is somewhat unpleasant but it seems to 
solve the problem - hopefully it won't cause any regressions.


Warmest Regards,

Mark.

--
Mark Waddingham ~ m...@livecode.com ~ http://www.livecode.com/
LiveCode: Everyone can create apps

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Re: Testing iOS apps on attached device

[panagiotis merakos via use-livecode]

Hi Ben,

If you can successfully install the standalone using Xode (by dragging it
onto the "Applications" field of your device), but you cannot do the same
using the "Test" button, then this is probably a bug in mergDeploy (which
is used by the "Test" button.

So I suggest you file a report.

However, I use the "Test" button for testing on iOS devices before each
release, and it works as expected for me. If it doesn't work for me, then
installing using Xcode fails too, but using Xcode gives a (usually)
informative error msg (which is usually related to provisioning profiles,
as Mike noted)

Best,
Panos
--

On Mon, Sep 18, 2017 at 10:24 AM, Ben Rubinstein via use-livecode <
use-livecode@lists.runrev.com> wrote:

> "baked" into the app, not "backed"!
>
>
>
> On 18/09/2017 09:59, Ben Rubinstein via use-livecode wrote:
>
>> Hi Jacque,
>>
>> Thanks for helping.
>>
>> Check to be sure that the profile in standalone settings is the same one
>>> that XCode is using.
>>>
>>
>> How would that work? Surely the profile is backed into the app when the
>> Standalone Builder builds the standalone? (I'm not building the app with
>> Xcode, just using it to install the app that LC built on to my phone.) Does
>> Xcode have a separate profile to install a app - if so where would I find
>> that?
>>
>> many thanks,
>>
>> Ben
>>
>>
>> On 16/09/2017 22:08, J. Landman Gay via use-livecode wrote:
>>
>>> On 9/16/17 1:40 PM, Ben Rubinstein via use-livecode wrote:
>>>
 Thanks for the reply, and I certainly have had that problem often
 enough - but not this time. I can build a standalone, and use Xcode to
 install it on the phone; and it works. So I don't have a provisioning
 profile issue in this case.

>>>
>>> Check to be sure that the profile in standalone settings is the same one
>>> that XCode is using.
>>>
>>>
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Re: Book (If you're new to LiveCode...)

[Mark Schonewille via use-livecode]

Hi,

At the end of this week, our office will close for 2 weeks. Any orders 
received before Wednesday 20th September will be processed and sent 
before we close.


Once you have ordered Programming LiveCode for the Real Beginner, keep 
an eye on your e-mail! You need to confirm your postal mail address 
before we can send the book.



Kind regards,

Mark Schonewille
http://economy-x-talk.com
https://www.facebook.com/marksch

Buy the most extensive book on the
LiveCode language:
http://livecodebeginner.economy-x-talk.com

Op 29-Aug-17 om 11:52 schreef Mark Schonewille:

Summer is nearing its end and schools are starting again. That seems a
good moment to ask your attention for the book Programming LiveCode for
the Real Beginner. I wrote this book in 2012-2013 and have sold numerous
copies over the past 5 years --for which a big thank-you to the LiveCode
community. Eventually, I decided to print a really huge pile, so it
would never be out of stock and we'd be able to deliver immediately
(depending on postal services and customs).

The fourth print of Programming LiveCode for the Real Beginner has been
updated to include a number of new XML commands, which were introduced
after the first release of the book. I have also added a few remarks
about LiveCode 7 to the chapter on Unicode. Since the book deals with
the basics of the LiveCode scripting language, which everybody needs to
know, it continues to be very relevant, no matter which version of
LiveCode you're using.

Only the paragraphs about the properties inspector need to be updated to
reflect the changes in LC 9, but these paragraphs deal with the
interface rather than scripting. There is no plan to rewrite the book,
but I might eventually delete those paragraphs altogether if we ever get
to producing a fifth print run.

Here is some information that you may want to know about the book:
- the book is not available as an e-book and it won't be, please don't
ask for it;
- there are no plans to rewrite the book;
- we ship the book everywhere in the world, if we can physically get
there (deliveries to Antarctica will take a while though) and shipping
costs are included in the price;
- book shops and educational institutes and anyone ordering at least 10
copies may contact us for a discount;
- after you purchase the book, we will ask you to confirm your postal
address;
- if you don't get an e-mail after you purchase the book, contact us and
use a different e-mail address if you have tried to contact us before;
- you can win a free copy of the book (perhaps to give away to a friend)
by liking the Facebook page https://www.facebook.com/LiveCode.Beginner
(but make sure to keep an eye on the page);
- please fill out our survey at
http://livecodebeginner.economy-x-talk.com/survey/ regardless of whether
you have purchased/are planning to purchase the book;
- if you have any more questions, please contact support [a t]
economy-x-talk.com

You can order the book at http://tinyurl.com/livecodebook and more info
is available at http://tinyurl.com/livecodeblog



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Re: Testing iOS apps on attached device

[Ben Rubinstein via use-livecode]

"baked" into the app, not "backed"!


On 18/09/2017 09:59, Ben Rubinstein via use-livecode wrote:

Hi Jacque,

Thanks for helping.


Check to be sure that the profile in standalone settings is the same one
that XCode is using.


How would that work? Surely the profile is backed into the app when the 
Standalone Builder builds the standalone? (I'm not building the app with 
Xcode, just using it to install the app that LC built on to my phone.) Does 
Xcode have a separate profile to install a app - if so where would I find that?


many thanks,

Ben


On 16/09/2017 22:08, J. Landman Gay via use-livecode wrote:

On 9/16/17 1:40 PM, Ben Rubinstein via use-livecode wrote:
Thanks for the reply, and I certainly have had that problem often enough - 
but not this time. I can build a standalone, and use Xcode to install it on 
the phone; and it works. So I don't have a provisioning profile issue in 
this case.


Check to be sure that the profile in standalone settings is the same one 
that XCode is using.




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Re: Testing iOS apps on attached device

[Ben Rubinstein via use-livecode]

Hi Jacque,

Thanks for helping.


Check to be sure that the profile in standalone settings is the same one
that XCode is using.


How would that work? Surely the profile is backed into the app when the 
Standalone Builder builds the standalone? (I'm not building the app with 
Xcode, just using it to install the app that LC built on to my phone.) Does 
Xcode have a separate profile to install a app - if so where would I find that?


many thanks,

Ben


On 16/09/2017 22:08, J. Landman Gay via use-livecode wrote:

On 9/16/17 1:40 PM, Ben Rubinstein via use-livecode wrote:
Thanks for the reply, and I certainly have had that problem often enough - 
but not this time. I can build a standalone, and use Xcode to install it on 
the phone; and it works. So I don't have a provisioning profile issue in 
this case.


Check to be sure that the profile in standalone settings is the same one that 
XCode is using.




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Re: LiveCode 8.2.0 DP-1 Dropping Keystrokes in IDE

[RunRevPlanet via use-livecode]

No worries, I always use TTF Courier New, so yes it is monospaced.

Ugly? Maybe! But for me very readable, and installed almost everywhere.

--
Scott McDonald
http://thelivecodelab.com/

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