date:20200405

On April 5, 2020 8:39:15 PM Alex Tweedly via use-livecode 
 wrote:



1. xTalk features just don't work, or work totally inadequately (e.g.
scrolling fields).


Somewhat true. LC made a start by adding widgets you can drop onto the 
stack to create native mobile buttons and fields, but I'd like to see 
regular LC controls magically change to native mobile controls much as the 
Mac, Windows, and (sort of) Linux appearances do. That would make a world 
of difference.


But there are features on mobile that don't exist on desktop. LC has 
provided for things like Android toasts and iOS popups. These things are 
one reason the language can't be entirely universal; mobile requires a 
different feature set. But it would be great if a scrolling field would 
just be a scrolling field everywhere. On the other hand, mobile lets you 
scroll all sorts of things (images, carousels, etc.) so we'd still need our 
mobile scroller anyway.



I agree it could be easier, but it isn't impossible. But parity wherever 
possible would be my first choice in what I'd like to see improved.




2. Failure in cross-platform equivalence.


If you mean mobile equivalence, Android is catching up quickly, in part 
because of the FM initiative. I appreciate that. iOS is pretty well covered 
for the most part. Some folks mentioned the issue of branching for 
different mobile platforms but that doesn't bother me much. We have to do 
that sometimes for the three desktop platforms already. The features that 
both iOS and Android do have in common use the same code and syntax.



The other two are, I suspect, not truly solvable.

3. It's not "Live"Code. Developing for Mobile gets you back into the
horrible edit - compile (i.e. build a standalone) - test cycle.


Yeah, this is a pain. I'm not sure there's any way around it but the 
addition of remote debugging has made it far easier. For a long time I felt 
like I was back in 1998 where I had to sprinkle "answer" dialogs all over 
the place just to know what my variable values were. There are some tricks 
though that help. I created a generic launcher app that loads my working 
stack so there's no actual compile required. I can't do this for complex 
apps, but I can do it for testing pieces and bits that will eventually go 
into the main app later. For simpler apps, the entire stack can be tested 
pretty easily this way.




4. You still need to deal with the ugly issues of the SDKs and the
app-store  requirements.


For me this is the hardest part, way worse than developing the app itself. 
It's also why I'd much rather deal with Android than Apple. Google is 
pretty easy to deal with. Apple is a constantly moving target with a 
rollercoaster of requirements, not to mention the profiles and certificates 
and what seems to me to be an unnecessarily complex review process.


However, if you are just developing for yourself or a few other people, you 
don't have to mess with either app store. Android apps can be freely 
distributed to anyone by any method and you don't even need a Google 
account. iOS apps can be distributed to a few people as "testers" without 
going through their byzantine submission process, though you do still need 
to mess with their account, certificates and profiles.


I'm thankful that the LC team keeps up with Apple's constantly changing 
requirements. Apple doesn't seem to value their developers much.




So, for me personally, even if LC Ltd. could fix (1) and (2), I would
still not even bother trying to build a mobile app; it's just not worth
the hassle or the learning curve.


It isn't such a steep learning curve as you'd think. One test app will 
probably get you going. If I were starting over, I'd start with Android 
because it's so much more flexible. The hardest part there is just making 
sure you download the right SDK and Java version.



OK - that's an easy decision for me - I don't do this for a living, I do
it for fun. And right now Mobile development is no fun.


It could be improved, but it isn't not-fun. It's just software development 
like anything else.


As you say, I don't have much choice. I haven't really done a desktop app 
for a couple of years now, clients want mobile and mobile only. Desktop 
apps are going away. My main client deals in university software and half 
the students don't even own a computer any more, they do everything on 
their tablets or phones. I found that LC Android apps also run pretty well 
on Chromebooks, even though LC doesn't officially support those, and if 
students own a laptop at all, it's likely to be a Chromebook these days. 
They're cheap and fast and essentially immune to malware.


When we only distributed desktop apps, students complained that they had to 
go to the school's computer lab because they didn't have a laptop.




The downside is, I've all but run out of reasons to develop in LC.


That would be a shame. You already have the skills, and aside from a few, 
but not all, mobile controls, the rest of it

Mobile Wondering

2020-04-05 Thread scott--- via use-livecode

> 1. xTalk features just don't work, or work totally inadequately (e.g. 
> scrolling fields).

I feel this is overly harsh. Livecode fields (and the creation of native UIText 
fields) do work on mobile. I think the issue is that the use of some objects 
(like fields) on mobile is not as drag ’n' drop simple as it is on desktop. No 
argument there. And the fact that mobile-specific commands each need to be 
wrapped inside an environment-check to keep from throwing an error in the IDE.

> 3. It's not "Live"Code. Developing for Mobile gets you back into the horrible 
> edit - compile (i.e. build a standalone) - test cycle.

I agree that there is much more of this needed for mobile since the IDE doesn’t 
allow us to build directly on mobile (I’m not sure that is a bad thing.) I have 
found simulators to be a good intermediary but it absolutely does require this 
frequent build cycle for some aspects of development.

> 4. You still need to deal with the ugly issues of the SDKs and the app-store  
> requirements.

I suspect that jumping the security hoops like certificates and store portals 
are a big reasons why even if "everyone can code” not everyone can see their 
mobile creation made available to others. Learning how to navigate these added 
security restrictions is time consuming and confusing (at least to me). Several 
people like Trevore DeVore and Matthias Rebbe have been helping ease these 
complications for desktop. I’m not sure what the answer is for mobile, though.

—
Scott Morrow

Elementary Software
(Now with 20% less chalk dust!)
web   https://elementarysoftware.com/
email sc...@elementarysoftware.com
booth1-800-615-0867
--
> On Apr 5, 2020, at 6:37 PM, Alex Tweedly via use-livecode 
>  wrote:
> 
> As I see it, there are 4 broad areas of problem for LC on mobile OSes.
> 
> The first two have been well described earlier in the thread and should just 
> be fixed.
> 
> 1. xTalk features just don't work, or work totally inadequately (e.g. 
> scrolling fields).
> 
> 2. Failure in cross-platform equivalence.
> 
> The other two are, I suspect, not truly solvable.
> 
> 3. It's not "Live"Code. Developing for Mobile gets you back into the horrible 
> edit - compile (i.e. build a standalone) - test cycle.
> 
> 4. You still need to deal with the ugly issues of the SDKs and the app-store  
> requirements.
> 
> So, for me personally, even if LC Ltd. could fix (1) and (2), I would still 
> not even bother trying to build a mobile app; it's just not worth the hassle 
> or the learning curve.
> 
> OK - that's an easy decision for me - I don't do this for a living, I do it 
> for fun. And right now Mobile development is no fun.
> 
> The downside is, I've all but run out of reasons to develop in LC. I used to 
> write little (but useful) apps/games/utilities for myself, or my family, or 
> sometimes for friends. I don't think my wife's laptop has been switched on 
> this year - she uses her tablet and/or phone almost exclusively. And others 
> in the family are much the same.
> 
> So I think the right solution is for LC Ltd is to add *another* target 
> platform - PWAs. (This has the advantage that it also tackles the inadequacy 
> of the HTML platform).
> 
> LC Ltd should just pick a set of PWA components (I don't know which - maybe 
> Angular, Polymer, etc. I *really* don't know which - but just pick one for me 
> !!). Then they should identify a *subset* of LC script/UI features that can 
> be readily mapped to JS and a LC/JS library, and implement that.
> 
> Given the ability to re-load JS it should be feasible to be (fairly) 
> "Live"Code, without a full stand-alone build step.  It should produce 
> fast-loading, small "apps" that would allow many fairly straightforward apps 
> to be developed easily - bringing Mobile development back into the realm 
> where new / naive users (that includes me) can readily develop apps and run 
> them on the devices we all use these days.
> 
> And I'd get to stick to LC :-)
> 
> Alex.
> 
> On 05/04/2020 21:53, Curry Kenworthy via use-livecode wrote:
>> 
>> Agreed!!! I had grown weary of endless arguments previously pushing back 
>> against most LC critiques while the wagons were circled, so very glad to see 
>> this frankly discussed now.
>> 
>> "Live" Code. Meaning: WYSIWYG between dev and runtime, no edit-compile-run 
>> cycle, much more efficient. Remember the marketing? For us the Users, it 
>> wasn't just marketing. It was real, and it was the reason and the 
>> empowerment. We lived it and used it. Still do on desktop.
>> 
>> But LC has never been "Live" Code on mobile platforms. A big fail. Not just 
>> the UI, but also the mobileBlahBlah keywords that must be placed in if/then 
>> branches to avoid runtime errors on desktop whereas they should have been 
>> designed pan-platform. When these first appeared I was hoping they were 
>> temporary. Instead they've grown and multiplied, setting an arguably bad 
>

Re: Maximum field height?

2020-04-05 Thread JB via use-livecode

It seems if Apple made the iOS compatible with the desktop it would
solve a lot of problems.

The question is why don’t they make them compatible?  Is their some
kind of FCC regulation that prevents Apple from using phone apps on
the desktop?  Back in the HyperCard days there was hyperDialer and
I really liked it a lot but I think the company was blocked from using it
by the phone companies or something like that.  Anyway there are no
replacements and I haven’t seen any others that survived so there is
a reason the desktop does not have simple phone capabilities.

JB


> On Apr 5, 2020, at 6:37 PM, Alex Tweedly via use-livecode 
>  wrote:
> 
> As I see it, there are 4 broad areas of problem for LC on mobile OSes.
> 
> The first two have been well described earlier in the thread and should just 
> be fixed.
> 
> 1. xTalk features just don't work, or work totally inadequately (e.g. 
> scrolling fields).
> 
> 2. Failure in cross-platform equivalence.
> 
> The other two are, I suspect, not truly solvable.
> 
> 3. It's not "Live"Code. Developing for Mobile gets you back into the horrible 
> edit - compile (i.e. build a standalone) - test cycle.
> 
> 4. You still need to deal with the ugly issues of the SDKs and the app-store  
> requirements.
> 
> So, for me personally, even if LC Ltd. could fix (1) and (2), I would still 
> not even bother trying to build a mobile app; it's just not worth the hassle 
> or the learning curve.
> 
> OK - that's an easy decision for me - I don't do this for a living, I do it 
> for fun. And right now Mobile development is no fun.
> 
> The downside is, I've all but run out of reasons to develop in LC. I used to 
> write little (but useful) apps/games/utilities for myself, or my family, or 
> sometimes for friends. I don't think my wife's laptop has been switched on 
> this year - she uses her tablet and/or phone almost exclusively. And others 
> in the family are much the same.
> 
> So I think the right solution is for LC Ltd is to add *another* target 
> platform - PWAs. (This has the advantage that it also tackles the inadequacy 
> of the HTML platform).
> 
> LC Ltd should just pick a set of PWA components (I don't know which - maybe 
> Angular, Polymer, etc. I *really* don't know which - but just pick one for me 
> !!). Then they should identify a *subset* of LC script/UI features that can 
> be readily mapped to JS and a LC/JS library, and implement that.
> 
> Given the ability to re-load JS it should be feasible to be (fairly) 
> "Live"Code, without a full stand-alone build step.  It should produce 
> fast-loading, small "apps" that would allow many fairly straightforward apps 
> to be developed easily - bringing Mobile development back into the realm 
> where new / naive users (that includes me) can readily develop apps and run 
> them on the devices we all use these days.
> 
> And I'd get to stick to LC :-)
> 
> Alex.
> 
> On 05/04/2020 21:53, Curry Kenworthy via use-livecode wrote:
>> 
>> Agreed!!! I had grown weary of endless arguments previously pushing back 
>> against most LC critiques while the wagons were circled, so very glad to see 
>> this frankly discussed now.
>> 
>> "Live" Code. Meaning: WYSIWYG between dev and runtime, no edit-compile-run 
>> cycle, much more efficient. Remember the marketing? For us the Users, it 
>> wasn't just marketing. It was real, and it was the reason and the 
>> empowerment. We lived it and used it. Still do on desktop.
>> 
>> But LC has never been "Live" Code on mobile platforms. A big fail. Not just 
>> the UI, but also the mobileBlahBlah keywords that must be placed in if/then 
>> branches to avoid runtime errors on desktop whereas they should have been 
>> designed pan-platform. When these first appeared I was hoping they were 
>> temporary. Instead they've grown and multiplied, setting an arguably bad 
>> trend for the future.
>> 
>> That was a huge design flaw or design mistake/bad decision for a product 
>> called "Live" Code. LC Ltd needs to understand and embrace some key 
>> characteristics of its own product. It's not just marketing, and it's not a 
>> HyperCard "Boomer" fad that will (or should) die out demographically with 
>> younger coders. It's valid, there's a reason, and it's so important.
>> 
>> How's that for a "second"? :)
>> 
>> Best wishes,
>> 
>> Curry Kenworthy
>> 
>> Custom Software Development
>> "Better Methods, Better Results"
>> LiveCode Training and Consulting
>> http://livecodeconsulting.com/
>> 
>> ___
>> use-livecode mailing list
>> use-livecode@lists.runrev.com
>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription 
>> preferences:
>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
> 
> ___
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode@lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription 
> preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/

Re: Maximum field height?

2020-04-05 Thread Alex Tweedly via use-livecode


As I see it, there are 4 broad areas of problem for LC on mobile OSes.

The first two have been well described earlier in the thread and should 
just be fixed.


1. xTalk features just don't work, or work totally inadequately (e.g. 
scrolling fields).


2. Failure in cross-platform equivalence.

The other two are, I suspect, not truly solvable.

3. It's not "Live"Code. Developing for Mobile gets you back into the 
horrible edit - compile (i.e. build a standalone) - test cycle.


4. You still need to deal with the ugly issues of the SDKs and the 
app-store  requirements.


So, for me personally, even if LC Ltd. could fix (1) and (2), I would 
still not even bother trying to build a mobile app; it's just not worth 
the hassle or the learning curve.


OK - that's an easy decision for me - I don't do this for a living, I do 
it for fun. And right now Mobile development is no fun.


The downside is, I've all but run out of reasons to develop in LC. I 
used to write little (but useful) apps/games/utilities for myself, or my 
family, or sometimes for friends. I don't think my wife's laptop has 
been switched on this year - she uses her tablet and/or phone almost 
exclusively. And others in the family are much the same.


So I think the right solution is for LC Ltd is to add *another* target 
platform - PWAs. (This has the advantage that it also tackles the 
inadequacy of the HTML platform).


LC Ltd should just pick a set of PWA components (I don't know which - 
maybe Angular, Polymer, etc. I *really* don't know which - but just pick 
one for me !!). Then they should identify a *subset* of LC script/UI 
features that can be readily mapped to JS and a LC/JS library, and 
implement that.


Given the ability to re-load JS it should be feasible to be (fairly) 
"Live"Code, without a full stand-alone build step.  It should produce 
fast-loading, small "apps" that would allow many fairly straightforward 
apps to be developed easily - bringing Mobile development back into the 
realm where new / naive users (that includes me) can readily develop 
apps and run them on the devices we all use these days.


And I'd get to stick to LC :-)

Alex.

On 05/04/2020 21:53, Curry Kenworthy via use-livecode wrote:


Agreed!!! I had grown weary of endless arguments previously pushing 
back against most LC critiques while the wagons were circled, so very 
glad to see this frankly discussed now.


"Live" Code. Meaning: WYSIWYG between dev and runtime, no 
edit-compile-run cycle, much more efficient. Remember the marketing? 
For us the Users, it wasn't just marketing. It was real, and it was 
the reason and the empowerment. We lived it and used it. Still do on 
desktop.


But LC has never been "Live" Code on mobile platforms. A big fail. Not 
just the UI, but also the mobileBlahBlah keywords that must be placed 
in if/then branches to avoid runtime errors on desktop whereas they 
should have been designed pan-platform. When these first appeared I 
was hoping they were temporary. Instead they've grown and multiplied, 
setting an arguably bad trend for the future.


That was a huge design flaw or design mistake/bad decision for a 
product called "Live" Code. LC Ltd needs to understand and embrace 
some key characteristics of its own product. It's not just marketing, 
and it's not a HyperCard "Boomer" fad that will (or should) die out 
demographically with younger coders. It's valid, there's a reason, and 
it's so important.


How's that for a "second"? :)

Best wishes,

Curry Kenworthy

Custom Software Development
"Better Methods, Better Results"
LiveCode Training and Consulting
http://livecodeconsulting.com/

___
use-livecode mailing list
use-livecode@lists.runrev.com
Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your 
subscription preferences:

http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode


___
use-livecode mailing list
use-livecode@lists.runrev.com
Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription 
preferences:
http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode

Re: Problems locating Android SDK

2020-04-05 Thread Sannyasin Brahmanathaswami via use-livecode

I did an uninstall of the Android Studio and re-installed it.  After that,
it worked.  Go figure!

SKIP

On Sun, Apr 5, 2020 at 8:55 PM Sannyasin Brahmanathaswami via use-livecode <
use-livecode@lists.runrev.com> wrote:

> ~/Library/Android/sdk/
>
> I don't use virtual machines... I just use my MotoG6 on WiFi without a SIM
> card...USB... it is  really fast to build and take one variable out of the
> equation. (I don't trust the VMs... call me superstitious...)
>
> When I an "happy"  I put the SivaSiva.ipk on our web server and have
> good beta tester in four different countries. All with very different
> Android phones/Bandwidth
>
>
>
> On 4/5/20, 2:44 PM, "use-livecode on behalf of Colin Holgate via
> use-livecode"  use-livecode@lists.runrev.com> wrote:
>
> You could give the path that you are using. Also, did you have to set
> up any virtual machines? Long ago LiveCode was only happy if you had an
> Android 2.2 virtual device.
>
> ___
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode@lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your
> subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
>
___
use-livecode mailing list
use-livecode@lists.runrev.com
Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription 
preferences:
http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode

Re: Problems locating Android SDK

~/Library/Android/sdk/

I don't use virtual machines... I just use my MotoG6 on WiFi without a SIM 
card...USB... it is  really fast to build and take one variable out of the 
equation. (I don't trust the VMs... call me superstitious...)

When I an "happy"  I put the SivaSiva.ipk on our web server and have good 
beta tester in four different countries. All with very different Android 
phones/Bandwidth 



On 4/5/20, 2:44 PM, "use-livecode on behalf of Colin Holgate via use-livecode" 
 wrote:

You could give the path that you are using. Also, did you have to set up 
any virtual machines? Long ago LiveCode was only happy if you had an Android 
2.2 virtual device.

___
use-livecode mailing list
use-livecode@lists.runrev.com
Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription 
preferences:
http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode

Re: Problems locating Android SDK

2020-04-05 Thread Colin Holgate via use-livecode

You could give the path that you are using. Also, did you have to set up any 
virtual machines? Long ago LiveCode was only happy if you had an Android 2.2 
virtual device.


> On Apr 5, 2020, at 6:36 PM, Sannyasin Brahmanathaswami via use-livecode 
>  wrote:
> 
> Mine is working, I'm wondering if I can put it a dropbox for you. (4.6 GB) Or 
> does it put your "machine signature" on it  when you install it.  I remember 
> having to "down grade it"  to build-tools 29.0.01 to get it to be seen by LC,
> 
> BR
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> On 4/5/20, 12:46 PM, "use-livecode on behalf of Skip Kimpel via 
> use-livecode"  use-livecode@lists.runrev.com> wrote:
> 
>okay, glad it is not just me then.
> 
>SKIP
> 
> 
> 
> ___
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode@lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription 
> preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode


___
use-livecode mailing list
use-livecode@lists.runrev.com
Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription 
preferences:
http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode

Re: Problems locating Android SDK

2020-04-05 Thread Sannyasin Brahmanathaswami via use-livecode

Mine is working, I'm wondering if I can put it a dropbox for you. (4.6 GB) Or 
does it put your "machine signature" on it  when you install it.  I remember 
having to "down grade it"  to build-tools 29.0.01 to get it to be seen by LC,

BR





On 4/5/20, 12:46 PM, "use-livecode on behalf of Skip Kimpel via use-livecode" 
 wrote:

okay, glad it is not just me then.

SKIP



___
use-livecode mailing list
use-livecode@lists.runrev.com
Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription 
preferences:
http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode

Re: Problems locating Android SDK

okay, glad it is not just me then.

SKIP

On Sun, Apr 5, 2020 at 6:29 PM Colin Holgate via use-livecode <
use-livecode@lists.runrev.com> wrote:

> I manually downloaded Tools from here:
>
> https://developer.android.com/studio
>
> And put it into the SDK folder. LiveCode is still not happy.
>
>
> > On Apr 5, 2020, at 4:09 PM, matthias rebbe via use-livecode <
> use-livecode@lists.runrev.com> wrote:
> >
> > Hi Skip,
> >
> > the problem is that Android Studio 3.6.x does not install Android
> command line tools by default.
> >
> > this is an excerpt of the update LC lesson
> http://lessons.livecode.com/m/2571/l/625198-livecode-and-android-studio
> >
> >
> >
> > Update: Android Studio 3.6 has stopped to install the android command
> line tools by default. These tools were stored in the
> /Users/youruser/Library/Android/sdk/tools folder, and contained some
> necessary jar files that are needed to build for Android.
> >
> > You can still force Android Studio 3.6 to download these tools:
> >
> > - Launch Android Studio and go to Configure -> "SDK Manager"
> >
> > - In the new window open "System Settings -> Android SDK".
> >
> > - From there pick the tab "SDK Tools".
> >
> > - Uncheck the "Hide Obsolete Packages" option in the bottom of the
> window.
> >
> > - Now there should appear a new option: "Android SDK Tools (Obsolete)" -
> check that, hit "Apply" - it will download the files and "Tools" folder
> will appear in the /Users/youruser/Library/Android/sdk/ folder:
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > HTH,
> >
> > -
> > Matthias Rebbe
> > Life Is Too Short For Boring Code
> >
> >> Am 05.04.2020 um 23:55 schrieb Skip Kimpel via use-livecode <
> use-livecode@lists.runrev.com>:
> >>
> >> Very helpful, thank you Colin. and I knew it would not be that easy.
> >> Now I get a message that says "The chosen folder is not a valid Android
> >> SDK.  Please ensure you have installed it correctly, and enabled support
> >> for 9.0 (api 28).   I went back into Android Studio and verified the
> path
> >> was correct and that I had checked the box for version 9.0, which I had.
> >> Any other suggestions for this new phase I am stuck at?
> >>
> >> SKIP
> >>
> >> On Sun, Apr 5, 2020 at 5:47 PM Colin Holgate via use-livecode <
> >> use-livecode@lists.runrev.com> wrote:
> >>
> >>> In Finder there is a Go menu, in which you can Go to Folder… Then you
> type
> >>> in the path to the hidden user library to get there. The same thing
> works
> >>> in open dialogs. When you are pointing LiveCode to the Android SDK,
> type
> >>> command-shift-g, and put in:
> >>>
> >>> ~/Library/Android/sdk/
> >>>
> >>> That path isn’t exactly right I’m sure, LiveCode doesn’t recognize it
> as
> >>> valid Android SDK root. It’s been a few years since I had to set that
> path.
> >>>
> >>>
>  On Apr 5, 2020, at 3:25 PM, Skip Kimpel via use-livecode <
> >>> use-livecode@lists.runrev.com> wrote:
> 
>  I am relatively new to Mac so if this is an easy fix, sorry for
> asking.
> >>> I
>  have installed Android Studio and the SDK is located in my
> user/library
>  directory.  I figured out how to reveal the library folder using
> Finder
> >>> but
>  when I try to browse to the SDK location in Livecode settings, I am
> not
>  able to get there.
> 
>  Can anybody help?  This is driving me nuts because I  know it is a
> quick
>  fix.
> 
>  Thanks,
> 
>  SKIP
>  ___
>  use-livecode mailing list
>  use-livecode@lists.runrev.com
>  Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your
> >>> subscription preferences:
>  http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> ___
> >>> use-livecode mailing list
> >>> use-livecode@lists.runrev.com
> >>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your
> >>> subscription preferences:
> >>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
> >>>
> >> ___
> >> use-livecode mailing list
> >> use-livecode@lists.runrev.com
> >> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your
> subscription preferences:
> >> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
> >
> > ___
> > use-livecode mailing list
> > use-livecode@lists.runrev.com
> > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your
> subscription preferences:
> > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
>
>
> ___
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode@lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your
> subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
>
___
use-livecode mailing list
use-livecode@lists.runrev.com
Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription 
pref

Re: Problems locating Android SDK

2020-04-05 Thread Colin Holgate via use-livecode

I manually downloaded Tools from here:

https://developer.android.com/studio

And put it into the SDK folder. LiveCode is still not happy.


> On Apr 5, 2020, at 4:09 PM, matthias rebbe via use-livecode 
>  wrote:
> 
> Hi Skip,
> 
> the problem is that Android Studio 3.6.x does not install Android command 
> line tools by default.
> 
> this is an excerpt of the update LC lesson 
> http://lessons.livecode.com/m/2571/l/625198-livecode-and-android-studio
> 
> 
> 
> Update: Android Studio 3.6 has stopped to install the android command line 
> tools by default. These tools were stored in the 
> /Users/youruser/Library/Android/sdk/tools folder, and contained some 
> necessary jar files that are needed to build for Android.
> 
> You can still force Android Studio 3.6 to download these tools:
> 
> - Launch Android Studio and go to Configure -> "SDK Manager"
> 
> - In the new window open "System Settings -> Android SDK". 
> 
> - From there pick the tab "SDK Tools". 
> 
> - Uncheck the "Hide Obsolete Packages" option in the bottom of the window. 
> 
> - Now there should appear a new option: "Android SDK Tools (Obsolete)" - 
> check that, hit "Apply" - it will download the files and "Tools" folder will 
> appear in the /Users/youruser/Library/Android/sdk/ folder:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> HTH,
> 
> -
> Matthias Rebbe
> Life Is Too Short For Boring Code
> 
>> Am 05.04.2020 um 23:55 schrieb Skip Kimpel via use-livecode 
>> :
>> 
>> Very helpful, thank you Colin. and I knew it would not be that easy.
>> Now I get a message that says "The chosen folder is not a valid Android
>> SDK.  Please ensure you have installed it correctly, and enabled support
>> for 9.0 (api 28).   I went back into Android Studio and verified the path
>> was correct and that I had checked the box for version 9.0, which I had.
>> Any other suggestions for this new phase I am stuck at?
>> 
>> SKIP
>> 
>> On Sun, Apr 5, 2020 at 5:47 PM Colin Holgate via use-livecode <
>> use-livecode@lists.runrev.com> wrote:
>> 
>>> In Finder there is a Go menu, in which you can Go to Folder… Then you type
>>> in the path to the hidden user library to get there. The same thing works
>>> in open dialogs. When you are pointing LiveCode to the Android SDK, type
>>> command-shift-g, and put in:
>>> 
>>> ~/Library/Android/sdk/
>>> 
>>> That path isn’t exactly right I’m sure, LiveCode doesn’t recognize it as
>>> valid Android SDK root. It’s been a few years since I had to set that path.
>>> 
>>> 
 On Apr 5, 2020, at 3:25 PM, Skip Kimpel via use-livecode <
>>> use-livecode@lists.runrev.com> wrote:
 
 I am relatively new to Mac so if this is an easy fix, sorry for asking.
>>> I
 have installed Android Studio and the SDK is located in my user/library
 directory.  I figured out how to reveal the library folder using Finder
>>> but
 when I try to browse to the SDK location in Livecode settings, I am not
 able to get there.
 
 Can anybody help?  This is driving me nuts because I  know it is a quick
 fix.
 
 Thanks,
 
 SKIP
 ___
 use-livecode mailing list
 use-livecode@lists.runrev.com
 Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your
>>> subscription preferences:
 http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
>>> 
>>> 
>>> ___
>>> use-livecode mailing list
>>> use-livecode@lists.runrev.com
>>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your
>>> subscription preferences:
>>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
>>> 
>> ___
>> use-livecode mailing list
>> use-livecode@lists.runrev.com
>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription 
>> preferences:
>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
> 
> ___
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode@lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription 
> preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode


___
use-livecode mailing list
use-livecode@lists.runrev.com
Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription 
preferences:
http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode

Re: Getting started with geographical coordinates

2020-04-05 Thread Mark Wieder via use-livecode


On 4/5/20 1:03 PM, Graham Samuel via use-livecode wrote:


constant k1 = 0.017453 -- that's pi/180



We're 20 years into the 21st century. Isn't it about time we could type

constant k1 = pi/180


--
 Mark Wieder
 ahsoftw...@gmail.com

___
use-livecode mailing list
use-livecode@lists.runrev.com
Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription 
preferences:
http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode

Re: Problems locating Android SDK

Thank you Matthias, however, I had done that already.  Unfortunately, the
problem still persists.

SKIP

On Sun, Apr 5, 2020 at 6:10 PM matthias rebbe via use-livecode <
use-livecode@lists.runrev.com> wrote:

> Hi Skip,
>
> the problem is that Android Studio 3.6.x does not install Android command
> line tools by default.
>
> this is an excerpt of the update LC lesson
> http://lessons.livecode.com/m/2571/l/625198-livecode-and-android-studio
>
>
>
> Update: Android Studio 3.6 has stopped to install the android command line
> tools by default. These tools were stored in the
> /Users/youruser/Library/Android/sdk/tools folder, and contained some
> necessary jar files that are needed to build for Android.
>
> You can still force Android Studio 3.6 to download these tools:
>
> - Launch Android Studio and go to Configure -> "SDK Manager"
>
> - In the new window open "System Settings -> Android SDK".
>
> - From there pick the tab "SDK Tools".
>
> - Uncheck the "Hide Obsolete Packages" option in the bottom of the window.
>
> - Now there should appear a new option: "Android SDK Tools (Obsolete)" -
> check that, hit "Apply" - it will download the files and "Tools" folder
> will appear in the /Users/youruser/Library/Android/sdk/ folder:
>
>
>
>
>
> HTH,
>
> -
> Matthias Rebbe
> Life Is Too Short For Boring Code
>
> > Am 05.04.2020 um 23:55 schrieb Skip Kimpel via use-livecode <
> use-livecode@lists.runrev.com>:
> >
> > Very helpful, thank you Colin. and I knew it would not be that easy.
> > Now I get a message that says "The chosen folder is not a valid Android
> > SDK.  Please ensure you have installed it correctly, and enabled support
> > for 9.0 (api 28).   I went back into Android Studio and verified the path
> > was correct and that I had checked the box for version 9.0, which I had.
> > Any other suggestions for this new phase I am stuck at?
> >
> > SKIP
> >
> > On Sun, Apr 5, 2020 at 5:47 PM Colin Holgate via use-livecode <
> > use-livecode@lists.runrev.com> wrote:
> >
> >> In Finder there is a Go menu, in which you can Go to Folder… Then you
> type
> >> in the path to the hidden user library to get there. The same thing
> works
> >> in open dialogs. When you are pointing LiveCode to the Android SDK, type
> >> command-shift-g, and put in:
> >>
> >> ~/Library/Android/sdk/
> >>
> >> That path isn’t exactly right I’m sure, LiveCode doesn’t recognize it as
> >> valid Android SDK root. It’s been a few years since I had to set that
> path.
> >>
> >>
> >>> On Apr 5, 2020, at 3:25 PM, Skip Kimpel via use-livecode <
> >> use-livecode@lists.runrev.com> wrote:
> >>>
> >>> I am relatively new to Mac so if this is an easy fix, sorry for asking.
> >> I
> >>> have installed Android Studio and the SDK is located in my user/library
> >>> directory.  I figured out how to reveal the library folder using Finder
> >> but
> >>> when I try to browse to the SDK location in Livecode settings, I am not
> >>> able to get there.
> >>>
> >>> Can anybody help?  This is driving me nuts because I  know it is a
> quick
> >>> fix.
> >>>
> >>> Thanks,
> >>>
> >>> SKIP
> >>> ___
> >>> use-livecode mailing list
> >>> use-livecode@lists.runrev.com
> >>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your
> >> subscription preferences:
> >>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
> >>
> >>
> >> ___
> >> use-livecode mailing list
> >> use-livecode@lists.runrev.com
> >> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your
> >> subscription preferences:
> >> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
> >>
> > ___
> > use-livecode mailing list
> > use-livecode@lists.runrev.com
> > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your
> subscription preferences:
> > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
>
> ___
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode@lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your
> subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
>
___
use-livecode mailing list
use-livecode@lists.runrev.com
Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription 
preferences:
http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode

Re: Problems locating Android SDK

2020-04-05 Thread matthias rebbe via use-livecode

Hi Skip,

the problem is that Android Studio 3.6.x does not install Android command line 
tools by default.

this is an excerpt of the update LC lesson 
http://lessons.livecode.com/m/2571/l/625198-livecode-and-android-studio



Update: Android Studio 3.6 has stopped to install the android command line 
tools by default. These tools were stored in the 
/Users/youruser/Library/Android/sdk/tools folder, and contained some necessary 
jar files that are needed to build for Android.

You can still force Android Studio 3.6 to download these tools:

- Launch Android Studio and go to Configure -> "SDK Manager"

- In the new window open "System Settings -> Android SDK". 

- From there pick the tab "SDK Tools". 

- Uncheck the "Hide Obsolete Packages" option in the bottom of the window. 

- Now there should appear a new option: "Android SDK Tools (Obsolete)" - check 
that, hit "Apply" - it will download the files and "Tools" folder will appear 
in the /Users/youruser/Library/Android/sdk/ folder:





HTH,

-
Matthias Rebbe
Life Is Too Short For Boring Code

> Am 05.04.2020 um 23:55 schrieb Skip Kimpel via use-livecode 
> :
> 
> Very helpful, thank you Colin. and I knew it would not be that easy.
> Now I get a message that says "The chosen folder is not a valid Android
> SDK.  Please ensure you have installed it correctly, and enabled support
> for 9.0 (api 28).   I went back into Android Studio and verified the path
> was correct and that I had checked the box for version 9.0, which I had.
> Any other suggestions for this new phase I am stuck at?
> 
> SKIP
> 
> On Sun, Apr 5, 2020 at 5:47 PM Colin Holgate via use-livecode <
> use-livecode@lists.runrev.com> wrote:
> 
>> In Finder there is a Go menu, in which you can Go to Folder… Then you type
>> in the path to the hidden user library to get there. The same thing works
>> in open dialogs. When you are pointing LiveCode to the Android SDK, type
>> command-shift-g, and put in:
>> 
>> ~/Library/Android/sdk/
>> 
>> That path isn’t exactly right I’m sure, LiveCode doesn’t recognize it as
>> valid Android SDK root. It’s been a few years since I had to set that path.
>> 
>> 
>>> On Apr 5, 2020, at 3:25 PM, Skip Kimpel via use-livecode <
>> use-livecode@lists.runrev.com> wrote:
>>> 
>>> I am relatively new to Mac so if this is an easy fix, sorry for asking.
>> I
>>> have installed Android Studio and the SDK is located in my user/library
>>> directory.  I figured out how to reveal the library folder using Finder
>> but
>>> when I try to browse to the SDK location in Livecode settings, I am not
>>> able to get there.
>>> 
>>> Can anybody help?  This is driving me nuts because I  know it is a quick
>>> fix.
>>> 
>>> Thanks,
>>> 
>>> SKIP
>>> ___
>>> use-livecode mailing list
>>> use-livecode@lists.runrev.com
>>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your
>> subscription preferences:
>>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
>> 
>> 
>> ___
>> use-livecode mailing list
>> use-livecode@lists.runrev.com
>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your
>> subscription preferences:
>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
>> 
> ___
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode@lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription 
> preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode

___
use-livecode mailing list
use-livecode@lists.runrev.com
Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription 
preferences:
http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode

Re: Problems locating Android SDK

Very helpful, thank you Colin. and I knew it would not be that easy.
 Now I get a message that says "The chosen folder is not a valid Android
SDK.  Please ensure you have installed it correctly, and enabled support
for 9.0 (api 28).   I went back into Android Studio and verified the path
was correct and that I had checked the box for version 9.0, which I had.
Any other suggestions for this new phase I am stuck at?

SKIP

On Sun, Apr 5, 2020 at 5:47 PM Colin Holgate via use-livecode <
use-livecode@lists.runrev.com> wrote:

> In Finder there is a Go menu, in which you can Go to Folder… Then you type
> in the path to the hidden user library to get there. The same thing works
> in open dialogs. When you are pointing LiveCode to the Android SDK, type
> command-shift-g, and put in:
>
> ~/Library/Android/sdk/
>
> That path isn’t exactly right I’m sure, LiveCode doesn’t recognize it as
> valid Android SDK root. It’s been a few years since I had to set that path.
>
>
> > On Apr 5, 2020, at 3:25 PM, Skip Kimpel via use-livecode <
> use-livecode@lists.runrev.com> wrote:
> >
> > I am relatively new to Mac so if this is an easy fix, sorry for asking.
> I
> > have installed Android Studio and the SDK is located in my user/library
> > directory.  I figured out how to reveal the library folder using Finder
> but
> > when I try to browse to the SDK location in Livecode settings, I am not
> > able to get there.
> >
> > Can anybody help?  This is driving me nuts because I  know it is a quick
> > fix.
> >
> > Thanks,
> >
> > SKIP
> > ___
> > use-livecode mailing list
> > use-livecode@lists.runrev.com
> > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your
> subscription preferences:
> > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
>
>
> ___
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode@lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your
> subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
>
___
use-livecode mailing list
use-livecode@lists.runrev.com
Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription 
preferences:
http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode

Re: Problems locating Android SDK

2020-04-05 Thread Colin Holgate via use-livecode

In Finder there is a Go menu, in which you can Go to Folder… Then you type in 
the path to the hidden user library to get there. The same thing works in open 
dialogs. When you are pointing LiveCode to the Android SDK, type 
command-shift-g, and put in:

~/Library/Android/sdk/

That path isn’t exactly right I’m sure, LiveCode doesn’t recognize it as valid 
Android SDK root. It’s been a few years since I had to set that path.

> On Apr 5, 2020, at 3:25 PM, Skip Kimpel via use-livecode 
>  wrote:
> 
> I am relatively new to Mac so if this is an easy fix, sorry for asking.  I
> have installed Android Studio and the SDK is located in my user/library
> directory.  I figured out how to reveal the library folder using Finder but
> when I try to browse to the SDK location in Livecode settings, I am not
> able to get there.
> 
> Can anybody help?  This is driving me nuts because I  know it is a quick
> fix.
> 
> Thanks,
> 
> SKIP
> ___
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode@lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription 
> preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode

___
use-livecode mailing list
use-livecode@lists.runrev.com
Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription 
preferences:
http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode

Problems locating Android SDK

I am relatively new to Mac so if this is an easy fix, sorry for asking.  I
have installed Android Studio and the SDK is located in my user/library
directory.  I figured out how to reveal the library folder using Finder but
when I try to browse to the SDK location in Livecode settings, I am not
able to get there.

Can anybody help?  This is driving me nuts because I  know it is a quick
fix.

Thanks,

SKIP
___
use-livecode mailing list
use-livecode@lists.runrev.com
Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription 
preferences:
http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode

Re: Maximum field height?

2020-04-05 Thread Curry Kenworthy via use-livecode




Richard:

> Exactly. Reducing the differences between runtime and development
> is a cornerstone of The xTalk Way.
[...]
> Suffice to say politely and succinctly: a decade later, LC for
> mobile remains half-baked compared to what it could be, compared
> to The xTalk Way that rests at the heart of its origins.
> There, I said it. Someone had to.

Agreed!!! I had grown weary of endless arguments previously pushing back 
against most LC critiques while the wagons were circled, so very glad to 
see this frankly discussed now.


"Live" Code. Meaning: WYSIWYG between dev and runtime, no 
edit-compile-run cycle, much more efficient. Remember the marketing? For 
us the Users, it wasn't just marketing. It was real, and it was the 
reason and the empowerment. We lived it and used it. Still do on desktop.


But LC has never been "Live" Code on mobile platforms. A big fail. Not 
just the UI, but also the mobileBlahBlah keywords that must be placed in 
if/then branches to avoid runtime errors on desktop whereas they should 
have been designed pan-platform. When these first appeared I was hoping 
they were temporary. Instead they've grown and multiplied, setting an 
arguably bad trend for the future.


That was a huge design flaw or design mistake/bad decision for a product 
called "Live" Code. LC Ltd needs to understand and embrace some key 
characteristics of its own product. It's not just marketing, and it's 
not a HyperCard "Boomer" fad that will (or should) die out 
demographically with younger coders. It's valid, there's a reason, and 
it's so important.


How's that for a "second"? :)

Best wishes,

Curry Kenworthy

Custom Software Development
"Better Methods, Better Results"
LiveCode Training and Consulting
http://livecodeconsulting.com/

___
use-livecode mailing list
use-livecode@lists.runrev.com
Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription 
preferences:
http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode

Re: Maximum field height?

J. Landman Gay wrote:

> On 4/5/20 1:12 PM, Richard Gaskin via use-livecode wrote:
>
>> Once I saw that the scroller works well on the field content I've
>> been working with, I added a routine to my mobile lib that
>> automatically removes the vScrollbar from any non-editable field
>> that has one, and instantiates a matching scroller over it.
>
> That's my standard procedure too, unless I'm using a pseudo-scrolling
> handler that allows pushing up or down on the field on desktop. It's
> basically a simulation, but for quick access during development it's
> faster to just use the built-in scrollbar.

Exactly. Reducing the differences between runtime and development is a 
cornerstone of The xTalk Way.

Dropping a field on a card works. If we want it scrollable, we click a 
checkbox.  Once clicked, it works everywhere, adapting to the UI 
conventions of the host platform. Why should that not work on a phone?

A generic solution REALLY SHOULD BE IN THE ENGINE (is that loud enough? 
Good), but in the dismaying absence of that feature completion some ten 
years later, being able to work around it by having a generic solution 
in a library is acceptable.

That is, if it works:

>> So yes, I'm using the field directly with no enclosing group, but no,
>> I don't use the desktop scrollbar on mobile; the scroller overlay
>> does a good job of tracking the user interaction, with the
>> appropriate endpoint indication and all, and scrolling the field in
>> response to the scroller's messages has worked well.
>
> I just released an app using this method and on iOS the stutter is
> quite noticeable, as well as on Android devices with slower CPUs.
> It's okay for short text, sort of (though there's a brief
> jerk) but for anything longer it fails.

Good to know.  Thanks.

It's a good thing for the more sensitive readers of this list that I 
have a busy Sunday planned, because my ALL CAPS portion above is just a 
small sample of the "When Keeping It Real Goes Wrong" episode I would 
otherwise drop on this list like a truckload of customer advocacy bricks.

Suffice to say politely and succinctly: a decade later, LC for mobile 
remains half-baked compared to what it could be, compared to The xTalk 
Way that rests at the heart of its origins.

There, I said it. Someone had to.

And it's too bad, because on the desktop it absolutely rocks beyond just 
about any other option on the planet.

It doesn't need to be this way.

Software is eating the world, The xTalk Way is supremely productive, and 
LiveCode is the most powerful xTalk ever.

LiveCode should be eating the planet. That it isn't is a function of the 
customer experience. If we don't soberly own that, there is no 
meaningful growth path forward.

> Up until LC 9 it was possible to set the field to use a scrolling
> layermode in the property inspector, but that's been removed. You
> can still set it by script, but it has no effect (and probably never
> did) and the engine defaults to dynamic layermode instead.

If a scrolling field can't be scrolled on mobile with checkbox ease for 
the developer and well-met expectations for the user, that would be a bug.

Let's not lower the bar. Let's complete the implementation.

Let's deliver excellence, and enjoy excellent growth.

The world is hungry for highly productive software development 
solutions, right now more than ever. Can we feed them?

--
 Richard Gaskin
 Fourth World Systems
 Software Design and Development for the Desktop, Mobile, and the Web

 ambassa...@fourthworld.comhttp://www.FourthWorld.com

___
use-livecode mailing list
use-livecode@lists.runrev.com
Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription 
preferences:
http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode

Re: Getting started with geographical coordinates

2020-04-05 Thread Graham Samuel via use-livecode

I’ve been trying these formulae out, and I’ve been using the info on 
https://www.movable-type.co.uk/scripts/latlong.html - for my purposes 
(distances from say 100 metres to up to a few kilometers) I think this works as 
well as haversine, but maybe not for every kind of measurement. The function 
gives a result in kilometres starting from coordinates in degrees. Seems to 
work, but I need to do a bit more work on the (real) ground to convince myself.

 function distanceslc lat1,lon1,lat2,lon2

constant k1 = 0.017453 -- that's pi/180

-- This implements the spherical law of cosines, from movable-type.co.uk. 
Confirmed with his javascript version

return acos(sin(lat1*k1) * sin(lat2*k1) + 
cos(lat1*k1)*cos(lat2*k1)*cos(lon2*k1-lon1*k1))*6371

end distanceslc


Graham

> On 4 Apr 2020, at 16:47, Ralph DiMola via use-livecode 
>  wrote:
> 
> A friend of mine turned me on to this 10 years ago. This is the Haversine
> formula. It assumes that the earth is sphere and is not very accurate for
> very small distances. I have not tried to use the Vincenty's formula that
> does better. For general purposes the HF should be sufficient.
> 
> Just give me the credit for LC implementation of a friends of mines routine.
> Although I understand how it works the real credit goes to Don Josef de
> Mendoza y Rios in 1796.
> 
> The girls and boys doing math in that period really set the stage. This
> brought me back to my CGI days when I was patting myself on the back when I
> self learned(with a friends help after reading the Kreyszig) how to move
> points in space and calculate lighting.  I then self reflected and realized
> that I was just putting together the pieces of math that these folks created
> out of thin air. I still felt like I accomplished something but very much
> smaller the scheme of things.
> 
> Ralph DiMola
> IT Director
> Evergreen Information Services
> rdim...@evergreeninfo.net
> 
> -Original Message-
> From: use-livecode [mailto:use-livecode-boun...@lists.runrev.com] On Behalf
> Of Bob Sneidar via use-livecode
> Sent: Friday, April 03, 2020 5:31 PM
> To: How to use LiveCode
> Cc: Bob Sneidar
> Subject: Re: 
> 
> Ralph, this is brilliant. I remember trying to do something similar years
> ago, and giving up because I didn't know how to do the math. I suck at math,
> or rather I am too lazy and impatient to work the problem. 
> 
> Bob S
> 
>> On Apr 3, 2020, at 14:27 , Ralph DiMola via use-livecode
>  wrote:
>> 
>> Graham,
>> 
>> This my distance calculation for what it's worth.
>> 
>> Function distance lat1, lon1, lat2, lon2, unit
>>  -- Calculate Distance between to points
>>  --
>>  --lat1, lon1, lat2, lon2 are in deg.fractionalDegrees
>>  -- Unit
>>  -- if empty then miles
>>  -- K = kilometers
>>  -- N = nautical miles
>>  local theta
>>  local dist
>> 
>>  Put lon1 - lon2 into theta
>>  put Sin(deg2rad(lat1)) * Sin(deg2rad(lat2)) + Cos(deg2rad(lat1)) *
> Cos(deg2rad(lat2)) * Cos(deg2rad(theta)) into dist
>> 
>>  put Acos(dist) into dist
>>  put rad2deg(dist) into dist
>>  put dist * 60 * 1.1515 into dist
>> 
>>  switch unit
>> case "K"
>>put dist * 1.609344 into dist
>> case "N"
>>put dist * 0.8684 into dist
>>  end switch
>> 
>>  Return dist
>> 
>> End distance
>> 
>> 
>> Function rad2deg rad
>>  Return rad / PI * 180.0
>> end rad2deg
>> 
>> 
>> Ralph DiMola
>> IT Director
>> Evergreen Information Services
>> rdim...@evergreeninfo.net
> 
> 
> ___
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode@lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription
> preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
> 
> 
> ___
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode@lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription 
> preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode


___
use-livecode mailing list
use-livecode@lists.runrev.com
Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription 
preferences:
http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode

Re: Socket Help


Bob Sneidar wrote:

> I am creating a client/server socket based app and I am trying to
> develop both the client and server on the same workstation, and I
> am having difficulty. I *think* the issue is that the client and
> server cannot both be on the same system, but I’m not entirely sure.
> I’m asking the system to listen and also talk on the same port.
>
> Anyone have any insight into this?

Hard to say without seeing the code, but my-go recommendation is, when 
in doubt review this excellent sockets example:


http://lessons.livecode.com/m/4071/l/12924-how-to-communicate-with-other-applications-using-sockets

--
 Richard Gaskin
 Fourth World Systems
 Software Design and Development for the Desktop, Mobile, and the Web
 
 ambassa...@fourthworld.comhttp://www.FourthWorld.com


___
use-livecode mailing list
use-livecode@lists.runrev.com
Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription 
preferences:
http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode

Re: Socket Help

2020-04-05 Thread Håkan Liljegren via use-livecode

There is no problem running the server and client on the same machine. I've 
used it for doing elevated services. There is a demo stack for a chat server 
and client that you can download. I know that helped me a lot when doing my 
first client server.

:-Håkan
On 5 Apr 2020, 20:23 +0200, Bob Sneidar via use-livecode 
, wrote:
> Hi all.
>
> I am creating a client/server socket based app and I am trying to develop 
> both the client and server on the same workstation, and I am having 
> difficulty. I *think* the issue is that the client and server cannot both be 
> on the same system, but I’m not entirely sure. I’m asking the system to 
> listen and also talk on the same port.
>
> Anyone have any insight into this?
>
> Bob S
>
> ___
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode@lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription 
> preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
___
use-livecode mailing list
use-livecode@lists.runrev.com
Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription 
preferences:
http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode

Re: Socket Help

2020-04-05 Thread Sannyasin Brahmanathaswami via use-livecode

Hi Kee. Thanks for the response.

I decided to go ahead and bypass the issue of the client and server being on 
the same device. I got my laptop out and created the server app there. I got it 
working as advertised.

[Technical stuff]
One thing I am doing is encrypting the data before sending it. The thing is, I 
needed a delimiter of some kind when reading the data back, because the data 
will be variable in length, and the end char will also be variable.

So what I did is I appended a termination character after the encrypted data 
before sending it, then stripped the termination on the server side before 
decrypting it. I do the same thing when sending data back. This has the effect 
of making any intercepted data in transit impossible to decrypt without knowing 
that there IS a terminator, what the terminator is, the encryption key and the 
seed! Even a brute force method would fail to decrypt the data.

I could get even fancier by sending two transmissions each way, the first being 
the randomized position and "poison pill" character that will be inserted into 
the encrypted data (itself encrypted), and a second the actual encrypted data. 
Even if the client and server stacks aren't password protected, there would be 
no way to anticipate what the poison pill character and position was.

I suppose I could use a web server with SSL certs, but first, I don’t know how, 
and second I would be adding the lag time for the web server to respond. Right 
now it's taking a little over 300 milliseconds for a simple string to return on 
a local area network

My goal is to create a client/server agent that I can securely send database 
queries to and get results back from.

Bob S


On Apr 5, 2020, at 11:55 AM, Kee Nethery via use-livecode 
mailto:use-livecode@lists.runrev.com>> wrote:

Here’s how this should work.

Server has an IP and port number that it listens on. Client sends a packet from 
the same IP and some random port.

Computer routes the packet and it doesn’t have to send the packet out on the 
net. It goes out the client port and back in to the server port.

Server replies from its port to the client port (client is waiting for a reply).

Try talking to your server with a browser on your computer and see what the 
server response looks like.

Kee Nethery

On Apr 5, 2020, at 11:22 AM, Bob Sneidar via use-livecode 
mailto:use-livecode@lists.runrev.com>> wrote:

Hi all.

I am creating a client/server socket based app and I am trying to develop both 
the client and server on the same workstation, and I am having difficulty. I 
*think* the issue is that the client and server cannot both be on the same 
system, but I’m not entirely sure. I’m asking the system to listen and also 
talk on the same port.

Anyone have any insight into this?

Bob S

___
use-livecode mailing list
use-livecode@lists.runrev.com
Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription 
preferences:
http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode



___
use-livecode mailing list
use-livecode@lists.runrev.com
Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription 
preferences:
http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode

Speech Synthesis

Given the arrival of the Speech Library Something I played with 30 years 
ago on hypercard manually entering phonemes,  to get the computer talk was 
a fascinating thing. Today, with AI all around us, Speech Sythesis is 
"everywhere"  and very advanced,

When we initialize

speechLibraryInitialized pSuccess

Do we have gain control of the International Phonetic Alphabet?  English is a 
"creole/polyglot" language, and depending across what language/culture 
"adjacencies"  (English-Tamil, English-French, English-Spanish) that the 
discourse it in, X number of words come into play that are understand, and 
pronounced correctly, but both parties. And the polyglot is increasing monthly! 
I don't know how AI will ever keep up.

Above is background. 

What I want is:  to have "Fred"  (or "Junior" or "Deranaged") pronounce 
"Satchinananda" perfectly.

Or put another way: having access to

com.apple.speech.synthesis.voice.Deranged

Does Deranged have command over any combination of phonemes?

I can't imagine we have to start from ground zero on this. Has anyone else done 
work in this area.

BR


___
use-livecode mailing list
use-livecode@lists.runrev.com
Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription 
preferences:
http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode

Re: Maximum field height?


What I wrote here originally:


 >  I've switched over to trying a group set as a container and setting
 > the field itself to scrolling layermode. I haven't tried it yet on
 > mobile but we'll see.


is wrong, the field inside the container group uses dynamic layermode. Scrolling layermode 
doesn't get applied to fields. We'll see if this works when I'm far enough along to build a 
test app.


--
Jacqueline Landman Gay | jac...@hyperactivesw.com
HyperActive Software   | http://www.hyperactivesw.com


___
use-livecode mailing list
use-livecode@lists.runrev.com
Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription 
preferences:
http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode

Re: Socket Help

2020-04-05 Thread Kee Nethery via use-livecode

Here’s how this should work. 

Server has an IP and port number that it listens on. Client sends a packet from 
the same IP and some random port.

Computer routes the packet and it doesn’t have to send the packet out on the 
net. It goes out the client port and back in to the server port.

Server replies from its port to the client port (client is waiting for a reply).

Try talking to your server with a browser on your computer and see what the 
server response looks like.

Kee Nethery

> On Apr 5, 2020, at 11:22 AM, Bob Sneidar via use-livecode 
>  wrote:
> 
> Hi all. 
> 
> I am creating a client/server socket based app and I am trying to develop 
> both the client and server on the same workstation, and I am having 
> difficulty. I *think* the issue is that the client and server cannot both be 
> on the same system, but I’m not entirely sure. I’m asking the system to 
> listen and also talk on the same port. 
> 
> Anyone have any insight into this?
> 
> Bob S
> 
> ___
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode@lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription 
> preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode

___
use-livecode mailing list
use-livecode@lists.runrev.com
Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription 
preferences:
http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode

Re: Maximum field height?

On 4/5/20 1:12 PM, Richard Gaskin via use-livecode wrote:

Once I saw that the scroller works well on the field content I've been working with, I added a
routine to my mobile lib that automatically removes the vScrollbar from any non-editable field
that has one, and instantiates a matching scroller over it.

That's my standard procedure too, unless I'm using a pseudo-scrolling handler that allows
pushing up or down on the field on desktop. It's basically a simulation, but for quick access
during development it's faster to just use the built-in scrollbar.

So yes, I'm using the field directly with no enclosing group, but no, I don't use the desktop
scrollbar on mobile; the scroller overlay does a good job of tracking the user interaction,
with the appropriate endpoint indication and all, and scrolling the field in response to the
scroller's messages has worked well.

I just released an app using this method and on iOS the stutter is quite noticeable, as well as
on Android devices with slower CPUs. It's okay for short text, sort of (though there's a brief
jerk) but for anything longer it fails. Up until LC 9 it was possible to set the field to use a
scrolling layermode in the property inspector, but that's been removed. You can still set it by
script, but it has no effect (and probably never did) and the engine defaults to dynamic
layermode instead.

While you're at it, it may be worthwhile turning the scrollbar of the field off and having your
scrollerDidScroll set the scroll of the field directly, with no enclosing group at all.

As above, that's what my previous app did. I'm going to change that for the next update, as it
looks unprofessional.

If it works as well for you as it's been doing for me, it saves me another test and gives
confidence to others that actually development with LiveCode isn't nearly as cumbersome as that
Lesson on scrolling fields suggests.

Well, basically the lesson is correct. I wish it weren't so. But if you only use a few fields
with short content, your easier method is probably passable. My previous app has a field whose
content is almost always less than the field height, but only extends beyond that for a few
lines occasionally. For something like that, I'd probably skip the group. If you feel like
experimenting, try a field sized to a mobile screenrect with 50+ lines of wrapped text. Do it
on iOS if you have one of those phones; the simulator won't give you the same response.

--
Jacqueline Landman Gay | jac...@hyperactivesw.com
HyperActive Software | http://www.hyperactivesw.com

___
use-livecode mailing list
use-livecode@lists.runrev.com
Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription
preferences:
http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode

Socket Help

Hi all. 

I am creating a client/server socket based app and I am trying to develop both 
the client and server on the same workstation, and I am having difficulty. I 
*think* the issue is that the client and server cannot both be on the same 
system, but I’m not entirely sure. I’m asking the system to listen and also 
talk on the same port. 

Anyone have any insight into this?

Bob S

___
use-livecode mailing list
use-livecode@lists.runrev.com
Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription 
preferences:
http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode

Re: Go to card has become slow

I don’t think LC accepts multiple statement transactions at all, does it?

Bob S


On Apr 5, 2020, at 11:00 AM, doc hawk via use-livecode 
mailto:use-livecode@lists.runrev.com>> wrote:

If server performance is at all an issue, SQLite may be the wrong choice.

It has a kind of, very reluctant, simultaneous access that the developers warn 
you not to use.

They suggest PostgreSQL for heavy loads.

I use SQLite within the application (the in-memory access is blindingly fast), 
and an external Postgres server (where I basically stash the statements to 
create the sqlite records, and update).

I tried mysql first, but LiveCode  doesn’t support multiple statement 
transactions on it (or at least didn’t at the time), resulting in hundreds of 
transactions where I could have used one

___
use-livecode mailing list
use-livecode@lists.runrev.com
Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription 
preferences:
http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode

Re: Maximum field height?

J. Landman Gay wrote:

> On April 5, 2020 12:46:19 PM Richard Gaskin wrote:
>
>> I've had such good luck so far with using scrollers directly on
>> fields that it never occurred to me that accelerated rendering
>> would be useful for field objects.
>
> If you're using a vScrollbar then no problem. But for swipe scrolling
> without a scrollbar, which is what mobile users expect, it's a
> different story. Android isn't as bad as iOS but there's a noticeable
> stutter on both.

I've been too lazy and much too enamored with The xTalk Way for any of 
that:

Once I saw that the scroller works well on the field content I've been 
working with, I added a routine to my mobile lib that automatically 
removes the vScrollbar from any non-editable field that has one, and 
instantiates a matching scroller over it.

So yes, I'm using the field directly with no enclosing group, but no, I 
don't use the desktop scrollbar on mobile; the scroller overlay does a 
good job of tracking the user interaction, with the appropriate endpoint 
indication and all, and scrolling the field in response to the 
scroller's messages has worked well.

But then again, I haven't used really long text with that. I'll explore 
that soon, and in the meantime I look forward to what you learn with 
this experiment from your earlier post:

>  I've switched over to trying a group set as a container and setting
> the field itself to scrolling layermode. I haven't tried it yet on
> mobile but we'll see.

While you're at it, it may be worthwhile turning the scrollbar of the 
field off and having your scrollerDidScroll set the scroll of the field 
directly, with no enclosing group at all.

If it works as well for you as it's been doing for me, it saves me 
another test  and gives confidence to others that actually 
development with LiveCode isn't nearly as cumbersome as that Lesson on 
scrolling fields suggests.

--
 Richard Gaskin
 Fourth World Systems
 Software Design and Development for the Desktop, Mobile, and the Web

 ambassa...@fourthworld.comhttp://www.FourthWorld.com

___
use-livecode mailing list
use-livecode@lists.runrev.com
Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription 
preferences:
http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode

Re: Go to card has become slow

2020-04-05 Thread doc hawk via use-livecode

If server performance is at all an issue, SQLite may be the wrong choice.

It has a kind of, very reluctant, simultaneous access that the developers warn 
you not to use.

They suggest PostgreSQL for heavy loads.

I use SQLite within the application (the in-memory access is blindingly fast), 
and an external Postgres server (where I basically stash the statements to 
create the sqlite records, and update).

I tried mysql first, but LiveCode  doesn’t support multiple statement 
transactions on it (or at least didn’t at the time), resulting in hundreds of 
transactions where I could have used one 
___
use-livecode mailing list
use-livecode@lists.runrev.com
Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription 
preferences:
http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode

Re: Maximum field height?

On April 5, 2020 12:46:19 PM Richard Gaskin via use-livecode 
 wrote:





I've had such good luck so far with using scrollers directly on fields
that it never occurred to me that accelerated rendering would be useful
for field objects.


If you're using a vScrollbar then no problem. But for swipe scrolling 
without a scrollbar, which is what mobile users expect, it's a different 
story. Android isn't as bad as iOS but there's a noticeable stutter on both.


--
Jacqueline Landman Gay | jac...@hyperactivesw.com
HyperActive Software | http://www.hyperactivesw.com



___
use-livecode mailing list
use-livecode@lists.runrev.com
Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription 
preferences:
http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode

Re: Maximum field height?

J. Landman Gay wrote:

> @Richard, when developing for desktop you don't need the enclosing
> group, but on mobile you do because acceleratedRendering only applies
> to groups. Without it you can't achieve smooth scrolling. I wish we
> could just set a field to scrolling layermode, it would sure make
> layout and resizing easier.

My own mobiles apps haven't yet displayed text longer than a few dozen 
pages, but I was impressed with the smoothness.

I'd always taken LC's field excellent field buffering for granted, given 
that their text engine is internal and used on all platforms.

I've had such good luck so far with using scrollers directly on fields 
that it never occurred to me that accelerated rendering would be useful 
for field objects.

Maybe Mark Waddingham could explain the relationship between LC's field 
buffering and the non-text buffering the engine does with groups?

--
 Richard Gaskin
 Fourth World Systems
 Software Design and Development for the Desktop, Mobile, and the Web

 ambassa...@fourthworld.comhttp://www.FourthWorld.com

___
use-livecode mailing list
use-livecode@lists.runrev.com
Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription 
preferences:
http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode

Re: Go to card has become slow

Bob Sneidar wrote:

> Thanks Terry I did the same thing. The focus is on server performance,
> not client. What I gleaned is that for an individual transaction, the
> difference between a transactional select statement and non is
> indistinguishable to the end user.

The rubric I was given back in the day is that transactions benefit 
writes but not reads. Thanks for confirming.

> Also, filtering out any save operations (including those occurring in
> plugins) increased performance on Windows by an astounding amount.
> While queries still take 3 to 4 times as long on Windows as they do on
> Mac, the lag has become acceptable and comparable to other apps doing
> similar operations.

I've been trying to sort through several reports about write speeds on 
Windows, but most examples I've seen conflate several different tasks. 
For example, the latest I came across had a mix of JSON translation and 
array manipulation in addition to writes, so diligent analysis would 
require pulling that example stack apart into three different tests to 
pinpoint the actual bottleneck.

It may be that there's something about the APIs LC uses on Win which are 
less than optimal, or perhaps something inherent in NTFS.

But I so often see speedy writes on Win in LC that I haven't yet pinned 
down a recipe that exposes a write issue specific to LC on Windows.

Does anyone have a clue to the question that comes up in various forms 
here lately: what factors could make writes from LC slower on Windows 
than on Mac or Linux?

--
 Richard Gaskin
 Fourth World Systems
 Software Design and Development for the Desktop, Mobile, and the Web

 ambassa...@fourthworld.comhttp://www.FourthWorld.com

___
use-livecode mailing list
use-livecode@lists.runrev.com
Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription 
preferences:
http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode

Re: Maximum field height?

Thanks guys. I did remember there was a limit but for some reason thought 
it was only for the width of a line. I've switched over to trying a group 
set as a container and setting the field itself to scrolling layermode. I 
haven't tried it yet on mobile but we'll see.

@Richard, when developing for desktop you don't need the enclosing group, 
but on mobile you do because acceleratedRendering only applies to groups. 
Without it you can't achieve smooth scrolling. I wish we could just set a 
field to scrolling layermode, it would sure make layout and resizing easier.

I think the new container layermode is supposed to help with this stuff. I 
haven't had to use it until now.

--
Jacqueline Landman Gay | jac...@hyperactivesw.com
HyperActive Software | http://www.hyperactivesw.com
On April 5, 2020 9:15:24 AM Richard Gaskin via use-livecode 
 wrote:

J. Landman Gay wrote:

> I have a field that reports a formattedheight of 125396. I want to
> extend it to full height for use inside an enclosing scrolling group.

I see that method used in the Lesson on using a scroller for text as
well, but I've never understood why.  What is the advantage of putting
the field inside of a group rather than using the scroller with the
field directly?

> But when I try to set the height to the formattedHeight, I get an
> error: Value is not a number.

I think Paul has the answer there: groups have limit of 32,767px on
either axis.  That's about 30' on desktop systems so generally useful,
but when using them to contain a field sized for long text it can easily
be exceeded.

--
 Richard Gaskin
 Fourth World Systems
 Software Design and Development for the Desktop, Mobile, and the Web

 ambassa...@fourthworld.comhttp://www.FourthWorld.com

___
use-livecode mailing list
use-livecode@lists.runrev.com
Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your 
subscription preferences:

http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode

___
use-livecode mailing list
use-livecode@lists.runrev.com
Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription 
preferences:
http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode

Re: Go to card has become slow

Thanks Terry I did the same thing. The focus is on server performance, not 
client. What I gleaned is that for an individual transaction, the difference 
between a transactional select statement and non is indistinguishable to the 
end user. 

Also, filtering out any save operations (including those occurring in plugins) 
increased performance on Windows by an astounding amount. While queries still 
take 3 to 4 times as long on Windows as they do on Mac, the lag has become 
acceptable and comparable to other apps doing similar operations. 

I have always wondered why Windows apps that access databases seem to take so 
long to start up. I think I know now. 

Bob S

> On Apr 5, 2020, at 12:07 AM, Terence Heaford via use-livecode 
>  wrote:
> 
> There is an interesting debate here as to whether it is necessary or not to 
> wrap select statements in transactions for optimisation:
> 
> https://stackoverflow.com/questions/7349189/optimizing-select-with-transaction-under-sqlite-3
>  
> 
> 
> I think there is probably widespread debate about this subject.
> 
> I don’t know the answer?
> 
> Best regards
> 
> Terry
> 
> 
> 
>> On 3 Apr 2020, at 17:00, Bob Sneidar via use-livecode 
>>  wrote:
>> 
>> Mark, you may have answered why it is my Forms Generator app is running so 
>> slow on Windows. I don’t use transactions and I make multiple queries for 
>> most transactions.
>> 
>> Bob S
>> 
> 
> ___
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode@lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription 
> preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode

___
use-livecode mailing list
use-livecode@lists.runrev.com
Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription 
preferences:
http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode

Re: Maximum field height?