ChatGPT examples

[Geoff Canyon via use-livecode]

I tested three use cases, with variations, using ChatGPT for (live)code
generation. There was a lot of back and forth. In the end, I solved all the
problems I set, but in some cases I had to hold ChatGPT's hand pretty
tightly.

That said, I learned some things as well -- about LiveCode. ChatGPT's code
for Fizz Buzz was faster than mine.

My code was faster for reversing lines. But ChatGPT, when asked to "make
the code faster" gave several suggestions, some of which were wrong or
impossible, but one of them was my method, and when I said "write that
option" it did, with only a few corrections needed.

And one of the ideas, while wrong, caused me to think of a different way to
solve the problem, and that way ended up being faster than my original
solution by over 3x on reversing 10k lines. Getting ChatGPT to write this
new method was *hard*.

In any case, I wrote it all down in a google doc
.
If you're curious, have a read. That URL is open for comments/edit
suggestions. If you have any I'd love to hear them.

Thanks!

Geoff
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Re: Maximum field size

[Bob Sneidar via use-livecode]

... ok. But first, can you provide an example of ANY application that 
displays that much text or that many lines in a field? A-Whaaay back when, 
Microsoft ran into this problem with large Word and Excel files. They got 
around it by developing a paging system that only kept in memory a certain 
number of pages before and after the currently displayed page.

If it is absolutely necessary for this app to display that much data, I suggest 
developing a paging engine that tracks the vScroll to determine what to display 
and cache. (caching just for speed.) Re-engineering the field object is not the 
solution methinks. It would probably negatively impact the performance of the 
field object.

FWIW the Datagrid Library ALSO has paging built in.

Bob S


On Jan 19, 2023, at 12:16 , Paul Dupuis via use-livecode 
mailto:use-livecode@lists.runrev.com>> wrote:

All the responses about crashing - because lines are too long (exceeding 65K 
chars or 32K x in line length) or there are too many lines (and so 32,767px of 
scrollable height is not enough) - strongly indicated that an overhaul of the 
standard field object is needed in LC 10, or, more likely, in LC11.

No matter what a developer or user tries to do with a field, it should not 
crash.

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Re: Maximum field size

[Niggemann, Bernd via use-livecode]

I tried to put text into a field on an arm MacBook Pro 32 GB memory, LC 9.6.9 
rc2 running natively. I realise that this is 64 bit.

I took a couple of lines of Lorem Ipsum and put it into a field. Then I put the 
formattedText of that field into the field to force lineFeeds at every visible 
line. 35 lines overall.

I then put that text a million times into a variable.
That variable was put into a field that was a little wider than the originating 
field to avoid line wrapping in the target field and also set the dontWrap of 
the target field to true.

The result:

35.000.000 Lines in the field
1.109.000.000 bytes, roughly 1.1 GigaBytes in the field
525.000.000 Pixel line 1 to -1 formattedHeight
160 seconds to fill field
App Memory Size went up to 17 GB, went down to 480 Mb after clearing the field.

The field could be scrolled although with a lot of Pizza spinning. After some 
fiddling with scrolling down to the end I was able to insert a return after the 
last line. (a bit of pizza)
Blinking cursor in field very slow.
LC slowed down but responded reasonably once the focus was away from the long 
field.

LC did not crash but did not really like that much text in a field. 

Kind regards
Bernd
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Re: Maximum field size

[Paul Dupuis via use-livecode]

All the responses about crashing - because lines are too long (exceeding 
65K chars or 32K x in line length) or there are too many lines (and so 
32,767px of scrollable height is not enough) - strongly indicated that 
an overhaul of the standard field object is needed in LC 10, or, more 
likely, in LC11.


No matter what a developer or user tries to do with a field, it should 
not crash.


When you put your application in customer hands, you have no idea what 
they may do. Our application lets researchers open and analyze text 
documents. In the context of that analysis, documents more than a few 
hundred pages long seemed unlikely to be something that would ever 
occur. And even then, those seemed rare. Then a customer contacted us 
working on a document that was 1000s - nearly 10,000 pages in length! It 
didn't make sense to me, but it dd to them. Now I dread the day when 
someone tries a document that is hundreds of thousands of pages (or many 
10s of thousands or some kind of data set that is an equivalent) and our 
app crashed because field limits where exceeded. No error code we can 
trap for, just boom and done.


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RE: Maximum field size

[Ralph DiMola via use-livecode]

Craig,

You are probably exceeding the 32k pixel limit of the field height.

Ralph DiMola
IT Director
Evergreen Information Services
rdim...@evergreeninfo.net


-Original Message-
From: use-livecode [mailto:use-livecode-boun...@lists.runrev.com] On Behalf Of 
Craig Newman via use-livecode
Sent: Thursday, January 19, 2023 2:00 PM
To: How to use LiveCode
Cc: Craig Newman
Subject: Re: Maximum field size

Guys, (and Jacque)

I made my test with lines of 14 chars. Lots of lines.   LC crashes.

Craig

> On Jan 19, 2023, at 10:10 AM, Craig Newman  wrote:
> 
> The stack I made to test this became corrupted after a couple of runs. I 
> guess the way to do this is to increase the length until a crash, not 
> decrease.
> 
>> On Jan 19, 2023, at 10:09 AM, Craig Newman  
>> wrote:
>> 
>> But I assume that there is a value where a field can be loaded and display a 
>> large amount of text. It would be simple to find that value if LC didn’t 
>> crash each time it was attempted along the way.
>> 
>> Craig
>> 
>>> On Jan 19, 2023, at 10:06 AM, Craig Newman  
>>> wrote:
>>> 
>>> David.
>>> 
>>> You want to display 1.39 GB in a field? Will it scroll?
>>> 
>>> I made a quick test stack that created a variable with a length of 1.4 GB. 
>>> No problem.
>>> 
>>> But when I tried to put that variable into a field, LC crashed. When I 
>>> tried to put 140 MB into a field, same crash. I did not continue to reduce 
>>> the length of that variable until the field could be loaded.
>>> 
>>> Craig
>>> 
 On Jan 18, 2023, at 7:46 PM, Paul Dupuis via use-livecode 
  wrote:
 
 I thought the theoretical limit was 4GB (32bits of characters) but I may 
 be wrong or there may be practical limits below that threshold.
 
 
 On 1/18/2023 7:29 PM, David Epstein via use-livecode wrote:
> How many rows or columns or characters can reasonably be displayed in a 
> LiveCode field?  A 1.39 GB text file seems pretty clearly to surpass the 
> limit, but how much do I need to subdivide it?
> 
> David Epstein
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> 


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Re: Maximum field size

[Craig Newman via use-livecode]

Richard.

As I mentioned, I wanted to make sure the field had scroll capabilities. ;-)

> On Jan 19, 2023, at 12:54 PM, Richard Gaskin via use-livecode 
>  wrote:
> 
> David Epstein wrote:
> 
> > How many rows or columns or characters can reasonably be displayed
> > in a LiveCode field?  A 1.39 GB text file seems pretty clearly to
> > surpass the limit, but how much do I need to subdivide it?
> 
> Jacque noted the machine limits, but I'm curious about a human question:
> 
> At an average of ~3,000 characters per printed page, if I'm doing the math 
> right then 1.3 GB of text = 433,333 pages worth of content.
> 
> For comparison, the entire text of the KJV Bible from the Gutenberg Project 
> is 4.5 MB.
> 
> What are you displaying for the user to read during the session?
> 
> -- 
> Richard Gaskin
> Fourth World Systems
> Software Design and Development for the Desktop, Mobile, and the Web
> 
> ambassa...@fourthworld.comhttp://www.FourthWorld.com
> 
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Re: Maximum field size

[Craig Newman via use-livecode]

Guys, (and Jacque)

I made my test with lines of 14 chars. Lots of lines.   LC crashes.

Craig

> On Jan 19, 2023, at 10:10 AM, Craig Newman  wrote:
> 
> The stack I made to test this became corrupted after a couple of runs. I 
> guess the way to do this is to increase the length until a crash, not 
> decrease.
> 
>> On Jan 19, 2023, at 10:09 AM, Craig Newman  
>> wrote:
>> 
>> But I assume that there is a value where a field can be loaded and display a 
>> large amount of text. It would be simple to find that value if LC didn’t 
>> crash each time it was attempted along the way.
>> 
>> Craig
>> 
>>> On Jan 19, 2023, at 10:06 AM, Craig Newman  
>>> wrote:
>>> 
>>> David.
>>> 
>>> You want to display 1.39 GB in a field? Will it scroll?
>>> 
>>> I made a quick test stack that created a variable with a length of 1.4 GB. 
>>> No problem.
>>> 
>>> But when I tried to put that variable into a field, LC crashed. When I 
>>> tried to put 140 MB into a field, same crash. I did not continue to reduce 
>>> the length of that variable until the field could be loaded.
>>> 
>>> Craig
>>> 
 On Jan 18, 2023, at 7:46 PM, Paul Dupuis via use-livecode 
  wrote:
 
 I thought the theoretical limit was 4GB (32bits of characters) but I may 
 be wrong or there may be practical limits below that threshold.
 
 
 On 1/18/2023 7:29 PM, David Epstein via use-livecode wrote:
> How many rows or columns or characters can reasonably be displayed in a 
> LiveCode field?  A 1.39 GB text file seems pretty clearly to surpass the 
> limit, but how much do I need to subdivide it?
> 
> David Epstein
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>>> 
>> 
> 


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Re: Maximum field size

[Richard Gaskin via use-livecode]

David Epstein wrote:

> How many rows or columns or characters can reasonably be displayed
> in a LiveCode field?  A 1.39 GB text file seems pretty clearly to
> surpass the limit, but how much do I need to subdivide it?

Jacque noted the machine limits, but I'm curious about a human question:

At an average of ~3,000 characters per printed page, if I'm doing the 
math right then 1.3 GB of text = 433,333 pages worth of content.


For comparison, the entire text of the KJV Bible from the Gutenberg 
Project is 4.5 MB.


What are you displaying for the user to read during the session?

--
 Richard Gaskin
 Fourth World Systems
 Software Design and Development for the Desktop, Mobile, and the Web
 
 ambassa...@fourthworld.comhttp://www.FourthWorld.com

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Re: Maximum field size

[J. Landman Gay via use-livecode]

The theoretical field text limit is about 4 GB but the practical limit 
depends on available RAM.


--
Jacqueline Landman Gay | jac...@hyperactivesw.com
HyperActive Software | http://www.hyperactivesw.com
On January 19, 2023 9:12:31 AM Craig Newman via use-livecode 
 wrote:


The stack I made to test this became corrupted after a couple of runs. I 
guess the way to do this is to increase the length until a crash, not decrease.




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Re: Maximum field size

[Mark Wieder via use-livecode]

On 1/19/23 07:26, Niggemann, Bernd via use-livecode wrote:


From the User Guide:


Maximum length of a line in a field:
65,536 characters storage
No more than 32,786 pixels wide for display

If you put lines longer above limits then LC will hang/crash

The amount of lines a field can hold is a lot higher provided the individual 
lines are not too long.


That's good to know, but crashing doesn't seem like a good way to 
enforce those limits.


--
 Mark Wieder
 ahsoftw...@gmail.com


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Re: Maximum field size

[David Epstein via use-livecode]

Thanks to Bernd for this:

> Maximum length of a line in a field:
> 65,536 characters storage
> No more than 32,786 pixels wide for display

This seems to mean we can have a 65k long line only if each character’s width 
is around half a pixel.
And that if the character width is 10 pixels the maximum line is 6,553 
characters.
Or does “for display” mean something else?

And, if we respect the line length limit, is the number of lines in a field 
limited only by however much of minimum(RAM, LC’s 4GB “total addressable 
space”) is not being used by something else?
So for example would trying to load a 2.1 GB variable in a field surpass the 
4GB limit, because the variable and the field would each need 2.1 GB?

Best wishes,
David Epstein
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Re: Maximum field size

[Niggemann, Bernd via use-livecode]

>> But when I tried to put that variable into a field, LC crashed. When I tried
>> to put 140 MB into a field, same crash. I did not continue to reduce the
>> length of that variable until the field could be loaded.


Craig,

>From the User Guide:

Maximum length of a line in a field:
65,536 characters storage
No more than 32,786 pixels wide for display

If you put lines longer above limits then LC will hang/crash

The amount of lines a field can hold is a lot higher provided the individual 
lines are not too long.

Kind regards
Bernd
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RE: Maximum field size

[Ralph DiMola via use-livecode]

David,

I believe the field limit for X and Y is 32767 pixels. Or is it 65535? 32767
sticks in my head. I have run into this limit a few times and had to chunk
the data in/out the field as the user scrolls. As Craig noted variables
don't have this limit.

Ralph DiMola
IT Director
Evergreen Information Services
rdim...@evergreeninfo.net

-Original Message-
From: use-livecode [mailto:use-livecode-boun...@lists.runrev.com] On Behalf
Of Craig Newman via use-livecode
Sent: Thursday, January 19, 2023 10:07 AM
To: How to use LiveCode
Cc: Craig Newman
Subject: Re: Maximum field size

David.

You want to display 1.39 GB in a field? Will it scroll?

I made a quick test stack that created a variable with a length of 1.4 GB.
No problem.

But when I tried to put that variable into a field, LC crashed. When I tried
to put 140 MB into a field, same crash. I did not continue to reduce the
length of that variable until the field could be loaded.

Craig

> On Jan 18, 2023, at 7:46 PM, Paul Dupuis via use-livecode
 wrote:
> 
> I thought the theoretical limit was 4GB (32bits of characters) but I may
be wrong or there may be practical limits below that threshold.
> 
> 
> On 1/18/2023 7:29 PM, David Epstein via use-livecode wrote:
>> How many rows or columns or characters can reasonably be displayed in a
LiveCode field?  A 1.39 GB text file seems pretty clearly to surpass the
limit, but how much do I need to subdivide it?
>> 
>> David Epstein
>> ___
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subscription preferences:
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Re: Maximum field size

[Craig Newman via use-livecode]

The stack I made to test this became corrupted after a couple of runs. I guess 
the way to do this is to increase the length until a crash, not decrease.

> On Jan 19, 2023, at 10:09 AM, Craig Newman  wrote:
> 
> But I assume that there is a value where a field can be loaded and display a 
> large amount of text. It would be simple to find that value if LC didn’t 
> crash each time it was attempted along the way.
> 
> Craig
> 
>> On Jan 19, 2023, at 10:06 AM, Craig Newman  
>> wrote:
>> 
>> David.
>> 
>> You want to display 1.39 GB in a field? Will it scroll?
>> 
>> I made a quick test stack that created a variable with a length of 1.4 GB. 
>> No problem.
>> 
>> But when I tried to put that variable into a field, LC crashed. When I tried 
>> to put 140 MB into a field, same crash. I did not continue to reduce the 
>> length of that variable until the field could be loaded.
>> 
>> Craig
>> 
>>> On Jan 18, 2023, at 7:46 PM, Paul Dupuis via use-livecode 
>>>  wrote:
>>> 
>>> I thought the theoretical limit was 4GB (32bits of characters) but I may be 
>>> wrong or there may be practical limits below that threshold.
>>> 
>>> 
>>> On 1/18/2023 7:29 PM, David Epstein via use-livecode wrote:
 How many rows or columns or characters can reasonably be displayed in a 
 LiveCode field?  A 1.39 GB text file seems pretty clearly to surpass the 
 limit, but how much do I need to subdivide it?
 
 David Epstein
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>>> 
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Re: Maximum field size

[Craig Newman via use-livecode]

But I assume that there is a value where a field can be loaded and display a 
large amount of text. It would be simple to find that value if LC didn’t crash 
each time it was attempted along the way.

Craig

> On Jan 19, 2023, at 10:06 AM, Craig Newman  wrote:
> 
> David.
> 
> You want to display 1.39 GB in a field? Will it scroll?
> 
> I made a quick test stack that created a variable with a length of 1.4 GB. No 
> problem.
> 
> But when I tried to put that variable into a field, LC crashed. When I tried 
> to put 140 MB into a field, same crash. I did not continue to reduce the 
> length of that variable until the field could be loaded.
> 
> Craig
> 
>> On Jan 18, 2023, at 7:46 PM, Paul Dupuis via use-livecode 
>>  wrote:
>> 
>> I thought the theoretical limit was 4GB (32bits of characters) but I may be 
>> wrong or there may be practical limits below that threshold.
>> 
>> 
>> On 1/18/2023 7:29 PM, David Epstein via use-livecode wrote:
>>> How many rows or columns or characters can reasonably be displayed in a 
>>> LiveCode field?  A 1.39 GB text file seems pretty clearly to surpass the 
>>> limit, but how much do I need to subdivide it?
>>> 
>>> David Epstein
>>> ___
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>>> subscription preferences:
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Re: Maximum field size

[Craig Newman via use-livecode]

David.

You want to display 1.39 GB in a field? Will it scroll?

I made a quick test stack that created a variable with a length of 1.4 GB. No 
problem.

But when I tried to put that variable into a field, LC crashed. When I tried to 
put 140 MB into a field, same crash. I did not continue to reduce the length of 
that variable until the field could be loaded.

Craig

> On Jan 18, 2023, at 7:46 PM, Paul Dupuis via use-livecode 
>  wrote:
> 
> I thought the theoretical limit was 4GB (32bits of characters) but I may be 
> wrong or there may be practical limits below that threshold.
> 
> 
> On 1/18/2023 7:29 PM, David Epstein via use-livecode wrote:
>> How many rows or columns or characters can reasonably be displayed in a 
>> LiveCode field?  A 1.39 GB text file seems pretty clearly to surpass the 
>> limit, but how much do I need to subdivide it?
>> 
>> David Epstein
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Re: ChatGPT conversation

[Mark Smith via use-livecode]

I suppose like a love affair, it can get addicting… I tried a few more queries 
in different programming languages to see how it would do. My queries were not 
very challenging, but it scored 10 out of 10 for both SAS and SQL (ie. both 
worked the first time). For python, when I asked it to write a game of “snake” 
it created a game where there was no user input (the snake only went right then 
it encountered the edge of the screen and quit). I asked it to modify that and 
it added code to get arrow key inputs. I won’t post them since I don’t want to 
fill up this space, but it is interesting to see what it can come up with. 

Now, back to more pressing challenges :)

Mark






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