Re: web/Happy 4th

[David Bovill via use-livecode]

The results aren't out yet. Heading to the polls

On Wed, 3 Jul 2024 at 23:03, Bob Sneidar via use-livecode <
use-livecode@lists.runrev.com> wrote:

> Merry FREEDOM FROM TYRANNY DAY! LOL!
>
> Bob S
>
>
> > On Jul 3, 2024, at 10:51 AM, Mike Kerner via use-livecode <
> use-livecode@lists.runrev.com> wrote:
> >
> > HAPPY TREASON DAY!
> >
> > On Wed, Jul 3, 2024 at 8:46 AM Curry Kenworthy via use-livecode <
> > use-livecode@lists.runrev.com> wrote:
> >
> >> I've been wanting to say, with a slight delay...
> >> Thanks for your comment - It's a great year for encouragement!
> >>
> >> I hope everyone has a great week, and 4th!
> >>
> >> Mark Smith:
> >>
> >>> My goodness Curry, how beautifully said. Thanks for sharing
> >>> your thoughts. It reminds me of a quote I saw recently, “Resilience
> >>> is my superpower”. Wishing everyone all the best in 2024.
> >>
> >> Me:
> >>
> >>> What doesn’t kill us ... makes us awesome and mighty.
> >>> Life requires that faith and perseverance. Here’s hoping for a
> >>> great 2024 for all, whatever it holds, and an even BETTER 2025!
> >>
> >> Best wishes,
> >>
> >> Curry Kenworthy
> >>
> >> Radically Innovative Christian LiveCode Development
> >> "PASSION for Elegant, Efficient Code!"
> >> https://livecodeconsulting.com/
> >>
> >> ___
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> >
> >
> > --
> > On the first day, God created the heavens and the Earth
> > On the second day, God created the oceans.
> > On the third day, God put the animals on hold for a few hours,
> >   and did a little diving.
> > And God said, "This is good."
> > ___
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Re: web/Happy 4th

[Curry Kenworthy via use-livecode]

Again - I hope everyone has a great week, and 4th!

> What doesn’t kill us ... makes us awesome and mighty.
> Life requires that faith and perseverance. Here’s hoping for a
> great 2024 for all, whatever it holds, and an even BETTER 2025!

Best wishes,

Curry Kenworthy

Radically Innovative Christian LiveCode Development
"PASSION for Elegant, Efficient Code!"
https://livecodeconsulting.com/


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Re: web/Happy 4th

[Bob Sneidar via use-livecode]

Merry FREEDOM FROM TYRANNY DAY! LOL!

Bob S


> On Jul 3, 2024, at 10:51 AM, Mike Kerner via use-livecode 
>  wrote:
> 
> HAPPY TREASON DAY!
> 
> On Wed, Jul 3, 2024 at 8:46 AM Curry Kenworthy via use-livecode <
> use-livecode@lists.runrev.com> wrote:
> 
>> I've been wanting to say, with a slight delay...
>> Thanks for your comment - It's a great year for encouragement!
>> 
>> I hope everyone has a great week, and 4th!
>> 
>> Mark Smith:
>> 
>>> My goodness Curry, how beautifully said. Thanks for sharing
>>> your thoughts. It reminds me of a quote I saw recently, “Resilience
>>> is my superpower”. Wishing everyone all the best in 2024.
>> 
>> Me:
>> 
>>> What doesn’t kill us ... makes us awesome and mighty.
>>> Life requires that faith and perseverance. Here’s hoping for a
>>> great 2024 for all, whatever it holds, and an even BETTER 2025!
>> 
>> Best wishes,
>> 
>> Curry Kenworthy
>> 
>> Radically Innovative Christian LiveCode Development
>> "PASSION for Elegant, Efficient Code!"
>> https://livecodeconsulting.com/
>> 
>> ___
>> use-livecode mailing list
>> use-livecode@lists.runrev.com
>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your
>> subscription preferences:
>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
>> 
> 
> 
> -- 
> On the first day, God created the heavens and the Earth
> On the second day, God created the oceans.
> On the third day, God put the animals on hold for a few hours,
>   and did a little diving.
> And God said, "This is good."
> ___
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Re: web/Happy 4th

[Mike Kerner via use-livecode]

HAPPY TREASON DAY!

On Wed, Jul 3, 2024 at 8:46 AM Curry Kenworthy via use-livecode <
use-livecode@lists.runrev.com> wrote:

> I've been wanting to say, with a slight delay...
> Thanks for your comment - It's a great year for encouragement!
>
> I hope everyone has a great week, and 4th!
>
> Mark Smith:
>
>  > My goodness Curry, how beautifully said. Thanks for sharing
>  > your thoughts. It reminds me of a quote I saw recently, “Resilience
>  > is my superpower”. Wishing everyone all the best in 2024.
>
> Me:
>
>  > What doesn’t kill us ... makes us awesome and mighty.
>  > Life requires that faith and perseverance. Here’s hoping for a
>  > great 2024 for all, whatever it holds, and an even BETTER 2025!
>
> Best wishes,
>
> Curry Kenworthy
>
> Radically Innovative Christian LiveCode Development
> "PASSION for Elegant, Efficient Code!"
> https://livecodeconsulting.com/
>
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-- 
On the first day, God created the heavens and the Earth
On the second day, God created the oceans.
On the third day, God put the animals on hold for a few hours,
   and did a little diving.
And God said, "This is good."
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Re: web/Happy 4th

[Curry Kenworthy via use-livecode]

I've been wanting to say, with a slight delay...
Thanks for your comment - It's a great year for encouragement!

I hope everyone has a great week, and 4th!

Mark Smith:

> My goodness Curry, how beautifully said. Thanks for sharing
> your thoughts. It reminds me of a quote I saw recently, “Resilience
> is my superpower”. Wishing everyone all the best in 2024.

Me:

> What doesn’t kill us ... makes us awesome and mighty.
> Life requires that faith and perseverance. Here’s hoping for a
> great 2024 for all, whatever it holds, and an even BETTER 2025!

Best wishes,

Curry Kenworthy

Radically Innovative Christian LiveCode Development
"PASSION for Elegant, Efficient Code!"
https://livecodeconsulting.com/

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Re: use-livecode Digest, Vol 250, Issue 1

[Neville Smythe via use-livecode]

Thank Dick

I will try your idea - it may need a small mod, see below. I will probably post 
some timings later if people are still interested in this thread.

Mark’s method of converting to an array of lines to gain random access to the 
lines has given me at least a 50-fold increase in speed in many of my handlers 
(perhaps more - my analysis may have been somewhat flawed but I still have the 
gut feeling LineOffset -and finding line k of text- is at 50 to 100 times 
slower on unicode than on ascii). So this is the method I have implemented; 
re-factoring took a few hours but was well worth it] 

However there is a drawback in using arrays rather than the original text - I 
often need to search the text, to find the first (or next) line containing a 
string, and there is no built-in arrayOffset. Binary (logarithmic) search is an 
extremely fast search algorithm for searching the elements of an array IF the 
array is pre-sorted appropriately for the search item beforehand, but that 
doesn’t suit my use-case at all. Sorting the keys of an array according to the 
contents of elements is  another story (combine by return, sort, split by 
return? Split is  OK as a once-off , but it gets expensive if it needs to be 
done multiple times - splitting 1700 lines of sample text took about 0.1 
seconds).

There is however

filter elements of  with  into tLines; put line 1 of the keys of 
tLines into tFoundLine

And that is still very fast on unicode, even though it will find all the lines 
matching str, not just the first. This can be an advantage or not. [Note  
does need to be set up to match a whole line]

I have a LineSearch algorithm alternative for lineOffset which searches for the 
first occurrence of a targetString in unicode text which avoids finding line 
endings and which is faster than using the filter method on arrays 
(particularly if the overhead of converting the text to an array with split by 
return is added). It uses the fact that matchChunk is still exceedingly fast on 
unicode (did someone complain that matchChunk appeared to be slow on unicode?? 
Who was that foolish boy? Wasn’t me Sir!). Slight drawback is you have to 
escape all the special regex characters in the target string before using the 
regex 

"(?m)(?i)^(.*?" & pTargetStr & ".*?)$”

but replace is very fast, so this is messy but not a big deal. Big drawback is 
it gives the text of the line but not the line number, and so the algorithm is 
not adaptable to skipping lines; your version may answer that but looks like it 
needs the repeat loop which looks expensive.  Hmm, wait, aren’t you looping on 
“line tLine in tLinesToSearch” which implicitly involves finding the line 
delimiters in the unicode text, which is back to the original problem?

Neville

> On 3 Jul 2024, at 2:00 am, use-livecode-requ...@lists.runrev.com wrote:
> 
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> 
> 
> Today's Topics:
> 
>   1. Re: Slow stack problem (Dick Kriesel)
> 
> 
> --
> 
> Message: 1
> Date: Tue, 2 Jul 2024 01:31:13 -0700
> From: Dick Kriesel 
> To: How to use LiveCode 
> Subject: Re: Slow stack problem
> Message-ID: <07280e11-c947-41af-9e81-066845475...@mail.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8
> 
> 
> 
>> On Jun 28, 2024, at 3:15?AM, Neville Smythe via use-livecode 
>>  wrote:
>> 
>> I have a solution or at least a workaround
> 
> Hi, Neville. You may find a worthwhile improvement in speed if you avoid 
> referring to the Unicode lines by their line numbers (as in "line k of fff").
> 
> Here's a way:
> 
> function findLineNumbersInUnicode pLinesToFind, tLinesToSearch -- returns a 
> comma-delimited list of the line numbers of lines that contain any of the 
> lines to find
> 
>  local tRegExp, tLineNumber, tLineNumbers
> 
>  repeat for each line tLineToFind in pLinesToFind
> 
>put "(^[0-9-]*\t" & tLineToFind & ")" into tRegExp
> 
>put 0 into tLineNumber
> 
>repeat for each line tLine in tLinesToSearch
> 
>  add 1 to tLineNumber
> 
>  if matchChunk(tLine, tRegExp) then
> 
>put tLineNumber & comma after tLineNumbers
> 
>  end if
> 
>end repeat
> 
>  end repeat
> 
>  return char 1 to -2 of tLineNumbers
> 
> end findLineNumbersInUnicode
> 
> 
> 
> If 

Re: Slow stack problem

[Dick Kriesel via use-livecode]

> On Jun 28, 2024, at 3:15 AM, Neville Smythe via use-livecode 
>  wrote:
> 
> I have a solution or at least a workaround

Hi, Neville. You may find a worthwhile improvement in speed if you avoid 
referring to the Unicode lines by their line numbers (as in "line k of fff").

Here's a way:

function findLineNumbersInUnicode pLinesToFind, tLinesToSearch -- returns a 
comma-delimited list of the line numbers of lines that contain any of the lines 
to find

  local tRegExp, tLineNumber, tLineNumbers

  repeat for each line tLineToFind in pLinesToFind

put "(^[0-9-]*\t" & tLineToFind & ")" into tRegExp

put 0 into tLineNumber

repeat for each line tLine in tLinesToSearch

  add 1 to tLineNumber

  if matchChunk(tLine, tRegExp) then

put tLineNumber & comma after tLineNumbers

  end if

end repeat

  end repeat

  return char 1 to -2 of tLineNumbers

end findLineNumbersInUnicode



If you try the idea, please share your test results.

— Dick Kriesel
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Re: use-livecode Digest, Vol 249, Issue 24

[Neville Smythe via use-livecode]

Thanks Mark for the gory details which i found fascinating. Unicode is even 
more complicated than I realized, and I thought I had a pretty good 
understanding of it.

Actually I thought my test 2 demonstrated that matchchunk performed very well 
on Unicode, rather than trying to show it was part of the problem. 

As to my back of the envelope analysis, I realized after I hit the Send button 
that my sloppy code computed the end condition 
the number of lines of fff
in the inner loop as well as the outer, which makes the timing computation 
incorrect.

So, end of story, my original problem is resolved, and I have that nifty array 
trick for random access to lines of large text data which is going to be 
invaluable, plus a tutorial  on Unicode. All worth the embarrassment of 
exposing my ignorance in front of God and everyone (God in this case being Mark)

Neville Smythe


> On 30 Jun 2024, at 2:01 am, use-livecode-requ...@lists.runrev.com wrote:
> 
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> and search them using this link:
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> 
> 
> Today's Topics:
> 
>  1. Re: Socket Packaging (Bob Sneidar)
>  2. url no longer working as expected (Hugh Senior)
>  3. Re: url no longer working as expected (Bob Sneidar)
>  4. Re: url no longer working as expected (Paul Dupuis)
>  5. Re: url no longer working as expected (Bob Sneidar)
>  6. Re: url no longer working as expected (Paul Dupuis)
>  7. Re: url no longer working as expected (Richard Gaskin)
>  8. Re: Slow stack problem (Neville Smythe)
>  9. Re: Slow stack problem (Mark Waddingham)
> 
> 
> --
> 
> Message: 1
> Date: Fri, 28 Jun 2024 16:44:24 +
> From: Bob Sneidar 
> To: How to use LiveCode 
> Subject: Re: Socket Packaging
> Message-ID: <2d093b01-c351-4aa7-b2f3-ae44cdc35...@iotecdigital.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
> 
> Added error checking. Also the payload can now be a string or an array. 
> 
> command packagePayload @pPayload, pUseEncryption
>  try   
> if pPayload is an array then \
>   put arrayEncode(pPayload) into pPayload
> 
> if pUseEncryption then \
>   put slyEncrypt(pPayload) into pPayload
> 
> put base64Encode(pPayload) into pPayload
>  catch tError
> return "ERROR:" && tError
>  end try
> end packagePayload
> 
> command unpackPayload @pPayload, pUseEncryption
>  try
> put base64Decode(pPayload) into pPayload
> 
> if pUseEncryption is true or pPayload begins with "salted" then \
>   put slyDecrypt(pPayload) into pPayload
> 
> if pPayload is an array then \
>   put arrayDecode(pPayload) into pPayload
>  catch tError
> return "ERROR:" && tError
>  end try
> end unpackPayload
> 
> Bob S
> 
> 
>> On Jun 24, 2024, at 9:21 AM, Bob Sneidar  wrote:
>> Hi all.
>> I came up with deceptively simple wrappers for packaging data for 
>> transmission over raw sockets. I can?t send the slyEncrypt and slyDecrypt 
>> handlers because I use methods no one else knows. But you can roll your own 
>> or else eliminate encryption altogether.
>> And to answer the question befor it?s asked, I don?t use SSL because I don?t 
>> like having to deal with certificates, and also because I use a method for 
>> encryption that I don?t think anyone else has thought of, or at least I 
>> can?t find any info online.
>> Bob S
>> command packagePayload @pPayload, pUseEncryption
>> if pPayload is an array then \
>>   put arrayEncode(pPayload) into pPayload
>> if pUseEncryption then \
>>   put slyEncrypt(pPayload) into pPayload
>> put base64Encode(pPayload) into pPayload
>> end packagePayload
>> command unpackPayload @pPayload
>> put base64Decode(pPayload) into pPayload
>> if pPayload begins with "salted" then \
>>   put slyDecrypt(pPayload) into pPayload
>> try
>>put arrayDecode(pPayload) into tResult
>>put tResult into pPayload
>> catch tError
>>-- not an array
>> end try
>> end unpackPayload
> 
> 
> --
> 
> Message: 2
> Date: Fri, 28 Jun 2024 18:04:09 +0100
> From: "Hugh Senior" 
> To: 
> Subject: url no longer working as expected
> Message-ID: <01dac97d$3292afe0$97b80fa0$@flexiblelearning.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain;charset="us-ascii"
> 
> 
> Platform: Windows 11, LC 9.6.12
> Query: Using URL to access a web page
> 
> Problem:
> 

Re: Slow stack problem

[Mark Waddingham via use-livecode]

On 2024-06-29 08:53, Neville Smythe via use-livecode wrote:
Is it not the case that the processing time for looping over the number 
of lines and getting the k-th line in each iteration, for some 
arbitrary k, going to be


Order(N^2) * C * T

where

N = the number of lines in the text

C = the number of codepoints in each line

T =  the (average) time for processing each codepoint to check for a 
return character


Now N and C are the same whether the text is ascii or unicode


Largely - yes - although for stuff like this you need to think in terms 
of bytes not codepoints (as memory throughput becomes 'a thing' when the 
strings are anything longer than a few characters) - so unicode is 
2*ascii in this regard


[ Its actually more than 2x for longer strings but how much more depends 
on CPU/memory architecture - CPUs can only read from their level 1 
cache, and there's a cost to a cache miss, and you get 2x as many cache 
misses with unicode data as native data, assuming the data is larger 
than a single level 1 cache line. ]



Test 1
If I get rid of the red herring by replacing the matchChunk call with a 
simple

...
Which would appear to mean that processing unicode codepoints for the 
apparently simple task of checking for return takes 100 times as much 
time as processing ascii. That seems excessive, to put it mildly!


Its a lot slower certainly, but then searching unicode text for a string 
is (in the general case) a lot more complex than searching native/ascii 
text for a string.



Test 2
With the original code using matchChunk, which of course is going to 
have its own internal loop on code points so multiply by another 8 (it 
only searches the first few characters)
and will not always return true so more lines must be processed — but 
again these are same multipliers whether ascii or unicode

...
Plain ascii takes   0.07 seconds
Unicode takes19.9 seconds, a multiplier of nearly 300. — I can 
easily believe matchChunk takes 3 times as long to process unicode as 
ascii, this is the sort of factor I would have expected in Test 1.


So 'Test 2' is slightly misleading - as it still suggests matchChunk is 
causing a slowdown - which it isn't.


The difference here is Test 2 is doing more work as it isn't always 
exiting. If you test:


  get line k of fff
  put true into tFound

I suspect you'll find the time to process your data if it contains 
unicode is pretty similar to that when matchChunk is also called.


In my quick test (which is 32 index lines, 200 fff lines) I get about 
10ms (no unicode) vs 1400ms (unicode)


OK Mark, hit me again, I am a glutton for punishment, what is wrong 
with this analysis?


Nothing in particular - apart from thinking that matchChunk is actually 
a relevant factor here ;)


The reasons this delimiter search operation on unicode strings is so 
much slower than native is for two reasons:
  1) We (well, I) heavily optimized the core native/ascii string 
operations in 2015 to make sure there were as fast as possible
  2) Searching a unicode string for another string (which is what is 
going on here) is much more complex than doing the same for native/ascii


Native/ascii strings have some very pleasant properties:
  - one byte (codeunit) is one character - always.
  - each character has only one representation - its byte value
  - casing is a simple mapping between lower and upper case characters - 
and only about 25% of characters are affected


Unicode has none of these properties
  - a unicode character (grapheme) can be arbitrarily many codeunits (2 
byte quantities) long
  - characters can have multiple representations - e.g. e-acute vs 
e,combining-acute
  - casing is not (in general) a simple mapping of one codeunit to 
another


Currently the unicode operations in the engine are largely unoptimized - 
they assume the general case in all things so even searching a string 
for LF (which is the case here) is still done under the assumption that 
it might need that (very hefty) extra processing.


Of course it would be nice to have highly optimized low-level unicode 
string optimizations but you have to pick your battles (particular when 
the battles are incredibly technical ones!) but the reality is that this 
(admittedly large!) speed difference is only really noticeable 'at 
scale' and when scale is involved, there's pretty much always an 
algorithmic change which can make those 'low-level' performance 
differences irrelevant.


The case here is a really good example.

The line X based code gives (no matchChunk / with matchChunk):

  ASCII 300 lines  13ms / 22ms
  ASCII 3000 lines - 986ms / 1104ms
  ASCII 1 lines - 10804ms / 11213ms

The array based code gives (no matchChunk / with matchChunk):

  ASCII 300 lines - 2ms / 11ms
  ASCII 3000 lines - 19ms / 101ms
  ASCII 1 lines - 69ms / 336ms

  UNICODE 300 lines - 7ms / 12ms
  UNICODE 3000 lines - 52ms / 108ms
  UNICODE 1 lines - 170ms / 359ms

Warmest Regards,

Mark.

--
Mark Waddingham ~ 

Re: Slow stack problem

[Neville Smythe via use-livecode]

Thanks Mark for pointing me (as ever) in the right direction, away from the red 
herring but to the hidden inner loop entailed in evaluating

line k of fff

A bit embarrassing because I was party to the discussion some time ago about 
the slowness of lineOffset when working with unicode text.

And thanks for the neat array trick which I wouldn’t have thought of.

There is indeed just one line in the text which contains a single Unicode 
character. Without that character evidently the variable fff would internally 
be an ascii (or native?) string, but otherwise is entirely utf16 and we hit the 
LineOffset problem.

But I am still bemused. 

Is it not the case that the processing time for looping over the number of 
lines and getting the k-th line in each iteration, for some arbitrary k, going 
to be

Order(N^2) * C * T

where

N = the number of lines in the text

C = the number of codepoints in each line 

T =  the (average) time for processing each codepoint to check for a return 
character

Now N and C are the same whether the text is ascii or unicode

Test 1
If I get rid of the red herring by replacing the matchChunk call with a simple

put line k of fff into x; put true into found — as if matchChunk always finds a 
match on the first line tested so that I am timing just the getting of lines 
endings:

The time for processing plain ascii is.  0.008 seconds
The time for processing unicode is. 0.84 seconds

Which would appear to mean that processing unicode codepoints for the 
apparently simple task of checking for return takes 100 times as much time as 
processing ascii. That seems excessive, to put it mildly!

Test 2
With the original code using matchChunk, which of course is going to have its 
own internal loop on code points so multiply by another 8 (it only searches the 
first few characters)
and will not always return true so more lines must be processed — but again 
these are same multipliers whether ascii or unicode

Plain ascii takes   0.07 seconds
Unicode takes19.9 seconds, a multiplier of nearly 300. — I can easily 
believe matchChunk takes 3 times as long to process unicode as ascii, this is 
the sort of factor I would have expected in Test 1.

OK Mark, hit me again, I am a glutton for punishment, what is wrong with this 
analysis?

Neville Smythe




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Re: url no longer working as expected

[Richard Gaskin via use-livecode]

Likely the case. The expense of collating all that data and presenting it to 
their site visitors is considerable.  They use advertising to cover those 
costs.  If the data were easily scrapable, scrapers diminish revenue, putting 
the resource itself at risk.

Some data provides offer APIs.  When you see anti-scraping effects, look for 
API options (I saw none there but I didn't look deeply).  APIs take fewer 
resources to deliver, and may have strategic benefit for some data brokers.

But if they have scrape-prevention and no API, they're sending a clear signal: 
"We need to pay our bills, please send your traffic to our page so we can do 
that."

That said, I've come across stock APIs before, and while I don't recall many 
free ones there likely are some.

Richard Gaskin
FourthWorld.com



Paul Dupuis wrote:

> I get a response from Yahoos that is an html page with a 404
> information as part of it.
...
> I think this is Yahoo Finance not being able to detect the
> browser type and intentionally returning a 404 as a method
> of deterring screen scraping.
>
>
On 6/28/2024 1:04 PM, Hugh Senior via use-livecode wrote:
...
>> Problem:
>> Enter "https://uk.finance.yahoo.com/quote/SHEL.L/history/; into
>> any web browser and the page is displayed as expected.
>>
>> Use LC's URL command to access the same page direct returns a
>> 404
>> put url "https://uk.finance.yahoo.com/quote/SHEL.L/history/;
>>
>> Anyone got any insights?

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Re: url no longer working as expected

[Paul Dupuis via use-livecode]

Yes.

put url "https://uk.finance.yahoo.com/quote/SHEL.L/history/;

In the message box on 9.6.11 and 9.6.12 under Windows 11. Both return a 
pile of HTML text that is all the formatting and CSS linked stuff to 
show a "404" page.


This suggests that put URL is working and it is the Yahoo server that 
returning a different page of HTML/CSS for the put vs when you enter the 
URL in a browser (Firefox in my case, where I get the Yahoo finance data 
for Shell, although I did have to respond to a Cookies dialog first).



On 6/28/2024 2:03 PM, Bob Sneidar via use-livecode wrote:

Did you try that in the message box?

Bob S



On Jun 28, 2024, at 10:50 AM, Paul Dupuis via use-livecode 
 wrote:

I get a response from Yahoos that is an html page with a 404 information as 
part of it.

This happens under LC 9.6.12 and 9.6.11

I think this is Yahoo Finance not being able to detect the browser type and 
intentionally returning a 404 as a method of deterring screen scraping.


On 6/28/2024 1:04 PM, Hugh Senior via use-livecode wrote:

Platform: Windows 11, LC 9.6.12
Query: Using URL to access a web page

Problem:
Enter "https://uk.finance.yahoo.com/quote/SHEL.L/history/; into any web
browser and the page is displayed as expected.

Use LC's URL command to access the same page direct returns a 404
put url "https://uk.finance.yahoo.com/quote/SHEL.L/history/;

Anyone got any insights?

Hugh Senior


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Re: url no longer working as expected

[Bob Sneidar via use-livecode]

Did you try that in the message box? 

Bob S


> On Jun 28, 2024, at 10:50 AM, Paul Dupuis via use-livecode 
>  wrote:
> 
> I get a response from Yahoos that is an html page with a 404 information as 
> part of it.
> 
> This happens under LC 9.6.12 and 9.6.11
> 
> I think this is Yahoo Finance not being able to detect the browser type and 
> intentionally returning a 404 as a method of deterring screen scraping.
> 
> 
> On 6/28/2024 1:04 PM, Hugh Senior via use-livecode wrote:
>> Platform: Windows 11, LC 9.6.12
>> Query: Using URL to access a web page
>> 
>> Problem:
>> Enter "https://uk.finance.yahoo.com/quote/SHEL.L/history/; into any web
>> browser and the page is displayed as expected.
>> 
>> Use LC's URL command to access the same page direct returns a 404
>> put url "https://uk.finance.yahoo.com/quote/SHEL.L/history/;
>> 
>> Anyone got any insights?
>> 
>> Hugh Senior
>> 
>> 
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Re: url no longer working as expected

[Paul Dupuis via use-livecode]

I get a response from Yahoos that is an html page with a 404 information 
as part of it.


This happens under LC 9.6.12 and 9.6.11

I think this is Yahoo Finance not being able to detect the browser type 
and intentionally returning a 404 as a method of deterring screen scraping.



On 6/28/2024 1:04 PM, Hugh Senior via use-livecode wrote:

Platform: Windows 11, LC 9.6.12
Query: Using URL to access a web page

Problem:
Enter "https://uk.finance.yahoo.com/quote/SHEL.L/history/; into any web
browser and the page is displayed as expected.

Use LC's URL command to access the same page direct returns a 404
put url "https://uk.finance.yahoo.com/quote/SHEL.L/history/;

Anyone got any insights?

Hugh Senior


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Re: url no longer working as expected

[Bob Sneidar via use-livecode]

I get the HTML of the page. Are you trying to open the page in a browser? 

Bob S


> On Jun 28, 2024, at 10:04 AM, Hugh Senior via use-livecode 
>  wrote:
> 
> 
> Platform: Windows 11, LC 9.6.12
> Query: Using URL to access a web page
> 
> Problem:
> Enter "https://uk.finance.yahoo.com/quote/SHEL.L/history/; into any web
> browser and the page is displayed as expected.
> 
> Use LC's URL command to access the same page direct returns a 404
> put url "https://uk.finance.yahoo.com/quote/SHEL.L/history/;
> 
> Anyone got any insights?
> 
> Hugh Senior
> 
> 
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url no longer working as expected

[Hugh Senior via use-livecode]

Platform: Windows 11, LC 9.6.12
Query: Using URL to access a web page

Problem:
Enter "https://uk.finance.yahoo.com/quote/SHEL.L/history/; into any web
browser and the page is displayed as expected.

Use LC's URL command to access the same page direct returns a 404
put url "https://uk.finance.yahoo.com/quote/SHEL.L/history/;

Anyone got any insights?

Hugh Senior


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Re: Socket Packaging

[Bob Sneidar via use-livecode]

Added error checking. Also the payload can now be a string or an array. 

command packagePayload @pPayload, pUseEncryption
   try   
  if pPayload is an array then \
put arrayEncode(pPayload) into pPayload
  
  if pUseEncryption then \
put slyEncrypt(pPayload) into pPayload
  
  put base64Encode(pPayload) into pPayload
   catch tError
  return "ERROR:" && tError
   end try
end packagePayload

command unpackPayload @pPayload, pUseEncryption
   try
  put base64Decode(pPayload) into pPayload
  
  if pUseEncryption is true or pPayload begins with "salted" then \
put slyDecrypt(pPayload) into pPayload
  
  if pPayload is an array then \
put arrayDecode(pPayload) into pPayload
   catch tError
  return "ERROR:" && tError
   end try
end unpackPayload

Bob S


> On Jun 24, 2024, at 9:21 AM, Bob Sneidar  wrote:
> 
> Hi all. 
> 
> I came up with deceptively simple wrappers for packaging data for 
> transmission over raw sockets. I can’t send the slyEncrypt and slyDecrypt 
> handlers because I use methods no one else knows. But you can roll your own 
> or else eliminate encryption altogether. 
> 
> And to answer the question befor it’s asked, I don’t use SSL because I don’t 
> like having to deal with certificates, and also because I use a method for 
> encryption that I don’t think anyone else has thought of, or at least I can’t 
> find any info online. 
> 
> Bob S
> 
> command packagePayload @pPayload, pUseEncryption
>   if pPayload is an array then \
> put arrayEncode(pPayload) into pPayload
> 
>   if pUseEncryption then \
> put slyEncrypt(pPayload) into pPayload
> 
>   put base64Encode(pPayload) into pPayload
> end packagePayload
> 
> command unpackPayload @pPayload
>   put base64Decode(pPayload) into pPayload
> 
>   if pPayload begins with "salted" then \
> put slyDecrypt(pPayload) into pPayload
> 
>   try
>  put arrayDecode(pPayload) into tResult
>  put tResult into pPayload
>   catch tError
>  -- not an array
>   end try
> end unpackPayload
> 

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Re: Slow stack problem

[Bob Sneidar via use-livecode]

I love using red herring in conversations. Most people don’t know what that is, 
so they can’t contradict me! :-)

Bob S


On Jun 28, 2024, at 5:02 AM, Mark Waddingham via use-livecode 
 wrote:

so thinking this is regex related is a red-herring.

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Re: Slow stack problem

[Mark Waddingham via use-livecode]

On 2024-06-28 11:15, Neville Smythe via use-livecode wrote:
In my last epistle I mentioned the repeat loop had only 32 iterations. 
Much more relevant of course is the inner loop on the number of lines 
of the data variable fff. In this case fff had 1760 lines. So the total 
possible number of iterations was around 3 to 5, getting up 
there but still well within LC capability.


I tried operating the loop on just the first 100 lines of fff. The 
repeats took 0.006 seconds (impressive).


Then just the first 300 lines. Timing was 0.016 seconds, approximately 
linear increase as expected


Are you sure a linear increase is expected?

Then the first 500 lines. Timing is now 6.43 seconds. Something very 
odd there, that’s beyond exponential increase.


And on the last 500 lines, timing was 0.135 seconds (Aha !!!)


I take it you tested this by doing the loop where fff was just line 1 to 
300, then just line 1 to 500 and then just -500 to -1?


My guess here is that the first 300 lines do not have a unicode 
character, there is somewhere in the next 200, and there are none in the 
last 500.


This would seem to point to matchChunk having indigestion over 
something in the middle of the text data. The data is 98% plain ascii, 
but quite likely it has a few Unicode characters: I have taken a whole 
lot of time to convert my legacy app to accept Asian and European 
Unicode personal names.


All regex matches in LC are Unicode (under the hood) - so thinking this 
is regex related is a red-herring. Running a regex on Unicode text, is 
no different from on native text - its just its dealing with 16-bit 
units rather than 8-bit (regex is generally a linear operation - it 
takes time proportional, roughly to length of pattern * length of string 
- well, as long as you don't use any backtracking type features).


The issue here is the assumption that your code is doing something 
linear...


It *looks* linear because your code is only doing two nested repeat 
loops - so from the point of view of lines of script its iterating the 
central loop roughly 'the number of lines of indexList * the number of 
lines of fff' - however the engine is doing a lot more work.


The central loop is doing (paraphrased);

   repeat with x = 1 to N
 get line x of jjj
   end repeat

This means the engine is searching for a line delimiter not N times, but 
sum(1, ..., N) times (which is N*(N-1)/2 - i.e. N^2 roughly).


Processing 300 lines will take the engine about 45000 steps, processing 
500 lines will take the engine 125000 steps, processing 1760 lines will 
take the engine > 1,500,000.


This means that a small change in how long it takes to search for a line 
delimiter (which is the fundamental operation here) makes a big 
difference to how long doing 1000's of them will take - and searching a 
string containing unicode is a fair bit slower than searching a string 
which contains only native characters.


Fortunately there is an easy solution here - use an array so you get 
random access to the lines of fff:


   split fff by return
   repeat with i=2 to the number of lines of indexList
  put line (i+1) of indexList into which

  put "(^[0-9-]*\t" & which & ")" into regX

  put false into found
  repeat with k=lastFound+1 to the number of elements of fff
 put matchChunk(fff[k],regX,pos1,pos2) into found

 if found then exit repeat
  end repeat

  if found then
 put k into lastFound
  end if

  put lastFound into item i of mylineNumbers
   end repeat

This should do exactly the same thing but SUBSTANTIALLY faster whether 
your fff variable contains native or unicode characters.


Warmest Regards,

Mark.

--
Mark Waddingham ~ m...@livecode.com ~ http://www.livecode.com/
LiveCode: Build Amazing Things

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Re: Slow stack problem

[Neville Smythe via use-livecode]

In my last epistle I mentioned the repeat loop had only 32 iterations. Much 
more relevant of course is the inner loop on the number of lines of the data 
variable fff. In this case fff had 1760 lines. So the total possible number of 
iterations was around 3 to 5, getting up there but still well within LC 
capability.

I tried operating the loop on just the first 100 lines of fff. The repeats took 
0.006 seconds (impressive).

Then just the first 300 lines. Timing was 0.016 seconds, approximately linear 
increase as expected

Then the first 500 lines. Timing is now 6.43 seconds. Something very odd there, 
that’s beyond exponential increase.

And on the last 500 lines, timing was 0.135 seconds (Aha !!!)

This would seem to point to matchChunk having indigestion over something in the 
middle of the text data. The data is 98% plain ascii, but quite likely it has a 
few Unicode characters: I have taken a whole lot of time to convert my legacy 
app to accept Asian and European Unicode personal names.

Gives me something to work on.  If I am right, it points to either a bug or a 
severe limitation in matchChunk if it cannot work with Unicode.

And lo…

Put textEncode(fff,”ascii”) into fff

And now the whole 1760 lines take 0.073 seconds to complete. 

I have a solution or at least a workaround, and LC has an impending bug report 
[does anyone know if the latest versions of  regexp searches have a performance 
problem with Unicode in other implementations?].

Neville Smythe




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Re: Slow stack problem

[Richard Gaskin via use-livecode]

Neville Smythe wrote:
> The same handler, same code, in a previous version of the
> offending stack, takes 0.06 seconds, both in the current
> 9.6.12 IDE, and using a standalone compiled under a
> previous LC version.

In your previous message yesterday you wrote:

> So I have done something to the data stack in the last
> few months. It is not a change of LC version or platform
> OS. A standalone I produced a couple of months ago does
> not display this slow behaviour when working on its old
> version of the data stack, but does show it when I apply
> it to the latest version of the data stack.

If the code hasn't changed but the data has, you've narrowed it down.

What is in the data stack?

Where does the data come from, and when/how does the data stack get updated 
with new data?

--
Richard Gaskin
FourthWorld.com

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Re: eMail attachment: best practice?

[Curry Kenworthy via use-livecode]

Paul:

> I wish there was a better option.

in your case - simply upload the file.

Best wishes,

Curry Kenworthy

Radically Innovative Christian LiveCode Development
"PASSION for Elegant, Efficient Code!"
https://livecodeconsulting.com/

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Re: Slow stack problem

[Neville Smythe via use-livecode]

Thank Craig for your suggestion about replacing the Preferences file. No luck.

 I am down to going through line by line to find what process is taking so much 
time. I am now totally confused by finding that a handler which calls no 
handlers of mine, and simply has a repeat loop over just 32 short lines of text 
on each of which it does a matchChunk … takes 20 seconds!

repeat with i=2 to the number of lines of indexList

put line (i+1) of indexList into which

put "(^[0-9-]*\t" & which & ")" into regX

put false into found

repeat with k=lastFound+1 to the number of lines of fff

put matchChunk(line k of fff,regX,pos1,pos2) into found

if found then exit repeat

end repeat

if found then

put k into lastFound

end if

put lastFound into item i of mylineNumbers

end repeat


The same handler, same code, in a previous version of the offending stack, 
takes 0.06 seconds, both in the current 9.6.12 IDE, and using a standalone 
compiled under a previous LC version. I don’t understand how any of my code 
anywhere else in the stacks in use could affect the performance of an LC 
built-in matchChunk, which itself does not appear to have changed between 
versions (I certainly don’t redeclare matchChunk anywhere). I must be missing 
something.


Neville Smythe




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Re: eMail attachment: best practice?

[Richard Gaskin via use-livecode]

Matthias wrote:

> Am 27.06.2024 um 02:48 schrieb Richard Gaskin>:
>> I wouldn't make anyone fill out anything. I'd just present
>> a window for them to review, and POST it to my web site.
>> The receiving CGI can do whatever I need. 
> 
> I would say this always depends on the purpose the app is
> supposed to fulfill.

Every good app does. :)


> In my private projects I am using quite often Livecode Server
> as the backend for my LC apps, but I had some customer projects
> in the past where the customer wanted an app to send out e-mails
> with special  attachments, like logfiles or reports or whatever
> and it had to be without user interaction. 

I think we're on the same page. I tend to prefer open disclosure for users to 
review data before sending from their local machine to a server, but it's not 
functionally necessary.  Most apps don't bother, and of course a POST command 
can be sent without any user interaction.


> In the days before tsNET I either used Shao Sean's e-mail
> library, Chip Walter's altEmailHarness or I called command
> line tools using shell function to get this done. 

If the final reciever *needs* to be an email client, nearly any method will 
require a mime wrapper for the payload.

The nice thing about doing that for sendmail on the server, rather than for 
whatever the user uses for email on the client, is we don't know what the user 
is using.  Things can get tricky with all the possible options one might 
discover a need to support (native email apps, webmail like GMail or Nextcloud, 
gawdonlyknows what special handling may be needed for monsters like Office 365, 
etc.).  Sendmail gives us one one well-documented compatibility target to build 
for and test against. And it's already available; I don't need to set up half a 
dozen client email options just to get started.

But the other benefit with POSTing to the server is you can change your mind 
easily about how you want to handle it.

Maybe today the reciever is a support person's email In Box, but if so that's 
really an intermediary place, where the final destination will be some form of 
issue tracking DB.

So one can go ahead and use sendmail to get the info to support in email today, 
and later revise the CGI handler to post directly into the issue tracker DB 
API, saving the payroll cost and error rate that comes with rote human 
intermediation.


Another consideration is trust, esp. when the method used requires users to 
enter their server credentials.

With a simple POST, no interaction is needed, no information the app doesn't 
already have in the course of normal use is obtained.  The situation is 
trustless, in the sense of trust not being a requirement to proceed.

The moment any app asks me for any server credentiails, I need to stop and 
consider the implications.  If the app is my email client, of course I expect 
that, and I only use email clients I already trust.  With anything else I'm 
going to think it through carefully, and probably contact the vendor to seek a 
different method, if I bother continuing using the product at all.

Imagine if you went to a web site and the Contact form required your server 
creds.  Would you hand those over?

Do your users know you intimately enough to have complete confidence they can 
give you the keys to their kingdom in an app form?

I can imagine maybe some enterprise environments where that level of trust 
*might* be available.  But the same security awareness that makes the 
environment trustable probably wouldn't ask for server credentials.  Good IT 
staff regard all networks as hostile, even LAN.


In short:

- POST requires no more work for mime-wrapping the payload than client email;

- sendmail on the server is a simpler target than all possible email clints;

- can have a UI or not, as desired;

- leaves the door open for easy re-routing later on if needed;

- requires no trust from the user beyond what they might expect with any web 
form.


--
Richard Gaskin
FourthWorld.com

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Re: Planning upgrade to Mac OS Sonoma 14.5 – any issues with LiveCode 9.6.12 or LC 10 Create?

[Bob Sneidar via use-livecode]

I think your instincts are correct. While letting your OS lag behind by 2 or 
more major versions is probably a bad practice, I don’t see any reason to just 
automatically update everytime it’s offered. But eventually Microsoft or Apple 
will make it, “compelling” as Mike Kerner put it. 

Bob S


> On Jun 27, 2024, at 5:10 AM, Martin Koob via use-livecode 
>  wrote:
> 
> Hi all
> 
> I am always a laggard when it comes to doing system upgrades. Long ago 
> traumas still linger I guess.  Anyway, it is usually between the Apple 
> Developer Conference iatn the beginning of summer and the release of the new 
> OS version in the fall when I get enough courage to go for it and upgrade to 
> the current macOS.
> 
> So, as the subject said are there any issues with LiveCode 9.6.12 or LC 10 
> Create that should give me pause or should I take the plunge?
> 
> Martin Koob

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Re: Planning upgrade to Mac OS Sonoma 14.5 – any issues with LiveCode 9.6.12 or LC 10 Create?

[Mike Kerner via use-livecode]

still sitting on ventura. usually LC is the reason why i hold off on
updating macOS, but i'm not sure what is compelling about sonoma, anyway.

On Thu, Jun 27, 2024 at 8:12 AM Martin Koob via use-livecode <
use-livecode@lists.runrev.com> wrote:

> Hi all
>
> I am always a laggard when it comes to doing system upgrades. Long ago
> traumas still linger I guess.  Anyway, it is usually between the Apple
> Developer Conference iatn the beginning of summer and the release of the
> new OS version in the fall when I get enough courage to go for it and
> upgrade to the current macOS.
>
> So, as the subject said are there any issues with LiveCode 9.6.12 or LC 10
> Create that should give me pause or should I take the plunge?
>
> Martin Koob
>
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-- 
On the first day, God created the heavens and the Earth
On the second day, God created the oceans.
On the third day, God put the animals on hold for a few hours,
   and did a little diving.
And God said, "This is good."
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Planning upgrade to Mac OS Sonoma 14.5 – any issues with LiveCode 9.6.12 or LC 10 Create?

[Martin Koob via use-livecode]

Hi all

I am always a laggard when it comes to doing system upgrades. Long ago traumas 
still linger I guess.  Anyway, it is usually between the Apple Developer 
Conference iatn the beginning of summer and the release of the new OS version 
in the fall when I get enough courage to go for it and upgrade to the current 
macOS.

So, as the subject said are there any issues with LiveCode 9.6.12 or LC 10 
Create that should give me pause or should I take the plunge?

Martin Koob

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Re: eMail attachment: best practice?

[matthias rebbe via use-livecode]

> Am 27.06.2024 um 02:48 schrieb Richard Gaskin via use-livecode 
> :
> 
> I wouldn't make anyone fill out anything. I'd just present a window for them 
> to review, and POST it to my web site. The receiving CGI can do whatever I 
> need. 
> 
I would say this always depends on the purpose the app is supposed to fulfill. 
In my private projects I am using quite often Livecode Server  as the backend 
for my LC apps, but I had some customer projects in the past where the customer 
wanted an app to send out e-mails  with special  attachments, like logfiles or 
reports or what ever and it had to be without user interaction. 

In the days before tsNET I either used Shao Sean's e-mail library, Chip 
Walter's altEmailHarness or I called command line tools using shell function to 
get this done. 



> If the diagnostic info is for a support issue, you may be able to use your 
> support tracking DB's API to automate creating the ticket.
> 
> Richard Gaskin
> FourthWorld.com
> 
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Re: eMail attachment: best practice?

[Richard Gaskin via use-livecode]

I wouldn't make anyone fill out anything. I'd just present a window for them to 
review, and POST it to my web site. The receiving CGI can do whatever I need. 

If the diagnostic info is for a support issue, you may be able to use your 
support tracking DB's API to automate creating the ticket.

Richard Gaskin
FourthWorld.com

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Re: eMail attachment: best practice?

[matthias rebbe via use-livecode]

Von meinem iPad gesendet

> Am 26.06.2024 um 15:01 schrieb Paul Dupuis via use-livecode 
> :
> 
> So this tsNet example for sending an email look great IF you are using it in 
> an corporate or institutional setting. One where you have a known SMTP server 
> and you know whether or not that SMTP server requires authentication.


> However, in the "wild" of a distributed application that could be on any 
> customer's computer in any setting, how do you know what the customer's SMTP 
> server is or whether it requires authentication. If it does require 
> authentication, most people set

Your app needs to have a card or substack where the customers can add their 
mail account login data and the server ip or name and all the other information 
they would enter when adding an email account to their e-mail client.  


> this up in their email client ONCE (or rarely) and may not know or remember 
> what the credentials are.
> 
Those people would also run into trouble if they switch to another e-mail 
client or if they get a new computer where they have to setup the e-mail client 
again.
This is not an email problem per se, but rather the problem that users are not 
doing proper password management.

> So I considered using our company SMTP server, but increasingly, SMTP servers 
> will reject messages if they are from a client computer that is not in the 
> same domain, as is the case with ours (for anti-spamming/spoofing), so that 
> it out as an option.
> 
What exactly did you want to do?
Use the server to send e-mails  to internal accounts on that server?

Or did you want to use that server as a relay server to send emails to external 
e-mail addresses? To do that you normally need an e-mail account on that server 
and your account needs to have the right to send external e-mails and you need 
to have to authenticate on that server when sending the e-mails to external 
users.


> I kinda need a solution that uses the clients own email client (and server).
tsNet behaves like an e-mail client. If the customer now there e-mail 
credentials and other information for setting up an e-mail client and if your 
app allows to enter those information, then tsNet will work without a problem.
Maybe with one exception. If the server only allows 2FA for the e-mail clients, 
then tsNet needs to support this. Maybe this is already the case, maybe not.
This is a question Charles Warwick or Livecode Support could answer


> Maybe I should look at how to encode the array in a pure text form that can 
> be part of the email body and send it that way. The problem there is that 
> some email clients (like gMail) limit the size of the message body that can 
> be generated from their APIs. If you use revMail with someone with gMail as 
> their default mail, the message body can only be about 2500 characters (or 
> maybe 5000, I forget the exact limit).
> 
> I suppose I could output the array as an encoded file to the customer's 
> desktop and ASK them to manually attach it to the generated email? I wish 
> there was a better option.
> 
> 
>> On 6/25/2024 6:15 PM, matthias rebbe via use-livecode wrote:
>> Instead of using revMail which opens the default mail client app you could 
>> use tsNET external, which is availlable  for Win/Mac/Linux/iOS and Android.
>> 
>> The only thing you have to keep in mind is that tsNet directly sends the 
>> email instead of opening the default email client.
>> 
>> Here you can find an sample stack
>> https://downloads.techstrategies.com.au/tsnet/smtpexample.livecode
>> 
>> And here is a link to a Livecode Lesson
>> https://lessons.livecode.com/m/4071/l/685661-how-to-send-e-mail-using-the-tsnet-external
>> 
>> 
>> 
 Am 25.06.2024 um 22:35 schrieb Paul Dupuis via use-livecode 
 :
>>> 
>>> Under a specific condition, my app creates an email with some pre-populated 
>>> information using revMail:
>>> 
>>> revMail address, [ccAddress, [mailSubject, [messageBody]]]
>>> 
>>> So, my call is: revMail tSupportEmail, , "Diagnostic Report Information", 
>>> tEmailBody
>>> Where tSupportEmail contains a valid email address and tEmailBody contain 
>>> the information I want to send.
>>> 
>>> I realize the user still has to click their send button in their email 
>>> client, but I have 2 questions:
>>> 
>>> 1) I see the Dictionary still lists "revMailUnicode" with the same 
>>> parameters. If tEmailBody contains Unicode characters do I need to 
>>> textEncode(tEmailBody, "UTF-16") and use revMailUnicode OR is plain old 
>>> revMail now Unicode aware
>>> 
>>> 2) My more important question is how does one create an email with an 
>>> attached file? I see no feature of revMail to include an attachment. Is 
>>> there some other way? If there is no way to add an attachment, what might 
>>> the best practice for sending the contents and structure of a Livecode 
>>> array be?
>>> 
>>> 
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>>> use-livecode@lists.runrev.com
>>> Please 

Re: eMail attachment: best practice?

[Bob Sneidar via use-livecode]

You would need to present the user with an interface where they can enter their 
corporate or business SMTP information, then use that. But more mail providers 
are forcing MFA these days (as I mentioned) and Microsoft has even gone so far 
as to completely disable ALL SMTP relaying when Modern Security is enabled, and 
are progressively enforcing Modern Security permanently. Mail Clients that 
communicate with Office365 do not use SMTP, they use MAPI so they are not 
effected. 

The only thing I can suggest is to subscribe to a web based SMTP relay. Bundle 
the cost of that (which isn’t very much) into the price of your product. 

Bob S


> On Jun 26, 2024, at 6:00 AM, Paul Dupuis via use-livecode 
>  wrote:
> 
> So this tsNet example for sending an email look great IF you are using it in 
> an corporate or institutional setting. One where you have a known SMTP server 
> and you know whether or not that SMTP server requires authentication.
> 
> However, in the "wild" of a distributed application that could be on any 
> customer's computer in any setting, how do you know what the customer's SMTP 
> server is or whether it requires authentication. If it does require 
> authentication, most people set this up in their email client ONCE (or 
> rarely) and may not know or remember what the credentials are.
> 
> So I considered using our company SMTP server, but increasingly, SMTP servers 
> will reject messages if they are from a client computer that is not in the 
> same domain, as is the case with ours (for anti-spamming/spoofing), so that 
> it out as an option.
> 
> I kinda need a solution that uses the clients own email client (and server). 
> Maybe I should look at how to encode the array in a pure text form that can 
> be part of the email body and send it that way. The problem there is that 
> some email clients (like gMail) limit the size of the message body that can 
> be generated from their APIs. If you use revMail with someone with gMail as 
> their default mail, the message body can only be about 2500 characters (or 
> maybe 5000, I forget the exact limit).
> 
> I suppose I could output the array as an encoded file to the customer's 
> desktop and ASK them to manually attach it to the generated email? I wish 
> there was a better option.
> 
> 
> On 6/25/2024 6:15 PM, matthias rebbe via use-livecode wrote:
>> Instead of using revMail which opens the default mail client app you could 
>> use tsNET external, which is availlable  for Win/Mac/Linux/iOS and Android.
>> 
>> The only thing you have to keep in mind is that tsNet directly sends the 
>> email instead of opening the default email client.
>> 
>> Here you can find an sample stack
>> https://downloads.techstrategies.com.au/tsnet/smtpexample.livecode
>> 
>> And here is a link to a Livecode Lesson
>> https://lessons.livecode.com/m/4071/l/685661-how-to-send-e-mail-using-the-tsnet-external
>> 
>> 
>> 
>>> Am 25.06.2024 um 22:35 schrieb Paul Dupuis via use-livecode 
>>> :
>>> 
>>> Under a specific condition, my app creates an email with some pre-populated 
>>> information using revMail:
>>> 
>>> revMail address, [ccAddress, [mailSubject, [messageBody]]]
>>> 
>>> So, my call is: revMail tSupportEmail, , "Diagnostic Report Information", 
>>> tEmailBody
>>> Where tSupportEmail contains a valid email address and tEmailBody contain 
>>> the information I want to send.
>>> 
>>> I realize the user still has to click their send button in their email 
>>> client, but I have 2 questions:
>>> 
>>> 1) I see the Dictionary still lists "revMailUnicode" with the same 
>>> parameters. If tEmailBody contains Unicode characters do I need to 
>>> textEncode(tEmailBody, "UTF-16") and use revMailUnicode OR is plain old 
>>> revMail now Unicode aware
>>> 
>>> 2) My more important question is how does one create an email with an 
>>> attached file? I see no feature of revMail to include an attachment. Is 
>>> there some other way? If there is no way to add an attachment, what might 
>>> the best practice for sending the contents and structure of a Livecode 
>>> array be?
>>> 
>>> 
>>> ___
>>> use-livecode mailing list
>>> use-livecode@lists.runrev.com
>>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your 
>>> subscription preferences:
>>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
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Re: Slow stack problem

[Craig Newman via use-livecode]

Have you tried trashing the LC preferences?

Have you tried the recent stack with a different data stack, or perhaps one 
with less data?

Craig

> On Jun 26, 2024, at 4:35 AM, Neville Smythe via use-livecode 
>  wrote:
> 
> I am plagued by a new problem which has arisen in an old stack that I have 
> been using for years with hundreds of modifications over that time. It was 
> still working well until suddenly in the last few week most of its data 
> processing handlers have slowed to a crawl. A button that gathers text data 
> from a number cards, does some text manipulations and then displays a modal 
> dialog, that used to be instantaneous now takes 30 seconds to display the 
> dialog. Another button which does extensive text gathering and processing now 
> takes 30 minutes instead of 30 seconds.
> 
> So I have done something to the data stack in the last few months. It is not 
> a change of LC version or platform OS. A standalone I produced a couple of 
> months ago does not display this slow behaviour when working on its old 
> version of the data stack, but does show it when I apply it to the latest 
> version of the data stack.
> 
> But I am at loss to figure out what setting I might have changed or what else 
> I could have done. I did not change the scripts of the offending buttons 
> since the previous version, so it sounds like a setting change. The stack 
> behaves as if the processing buttons have difficulty finding all the 
> necessary handlers, or as if it is it reporting in to Shanghai or Virginia 
> between handler calls. I don’t believe the stack is actually corrupted, 
> actions such as scrolling fields or moving between cards all work as normal. 
> The only other piece of information is that the CPU ramps up to 100% use in 
> one core , so it is doing something - but what? (Memory usage goes up to 
> 500MB but does not keep climbing, unlikely to be a memory leak or virtual 
> memory swapping (hmmm?))
> 
> I have tried to compare the differences between the old and new version of 
> the stacks as files using BBEdit, but most differences seem to be in  binary 
> data at the end of the files, whose meaning is opaque.
> 
> Any ideas as to what might be causing this, or how I might go about 
> diagnosis, would be hugely welcome.
> 
> 
> Neville Smytis
> 
> 
> 
> 
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Re: eMail attachment: best practice?

[Paul Dupuis via use-livecode]

So this tsNet example for sending an email look great IF you are using 
it in an corporate or institutional setting. One where you have a known 
SMTP server and you know whether or not that SMTP server requires 
authentication.


However, in the "wild" of a distributed application that could be on any 
customer's computer in any setting, how do you know what the customer's 
SMTP server is or whether it requires authentication. If it does require 
authentication, most people set this up in their email client ONCE (or 
rarely) and may not know or remember what the credentials are.


So I considered using our company SMTP server, but increasingly, SMTP 
servers will reject messages if they are from a client computer that is 
not in the same domain, as is the case with ours (for 
anti-spamming/spoofing), so that it out as an option.


I kinda need a solution that uses the clients own email client (and 
server). Maybe I should look at how to encode the array in a pure text 
form that can be part of the email body and send it that way. The 
problem there is that some email clients (like gMail) limit the size of 
the message body that can be generated from their APIs. If you use 
revMail with someone with gMail as their default mail, the message body 
can only be about 2500 characters (or maybe 5000, I forget the exact limit).


I suppose I could output the array as an encoded file to the customer's 
desktop and ASK them to manually attach it to the generated email? I 
wish there was a better option.



On 6/25/2024 6:15 PM, matthias rebbe via use-livecode wrote:

Instead of using revMail which opens the default mail client app you could use 
tsNET external, which is availlable  for Win/Mac/Linux/iOS and Android.

The only thing you have to keep in mind is that tsNet directly sends the email 
instead of opening the default email client.

Here you can find an sample stack
https://downloads.techstrategies.com.au/tsnet/smtpexample.livecode

And here is a link to a Livecode Lesson
https://lessons.livecode.com/m/4071/l/685661-how-to-send-e-mail-using-the-tsnet-external




Am 25.06.2024 um 22:35 schrieb Paul Dupuis via use-livecode 
:

Under a specific condition, my app creates an email with some pre-populated 
information using revMail:

revMail address, [ccAddress, [mailSubject, [messageBody]]]

So, my call is: revMail tSupportEmail, , "Diagnostic Report Information", 
tEmailBody
Where tSupportEmail contains a valid email address and tEmailBody contain the 
information I want to send.

I realize the user still has to click their send button in their email client, 
but I have 2 questions:

1) I see the Dictionary still lists "revMailUnicode" with the same parameters. If 
tEmailBody contains Unicode characters do I need to textEncode(tEmailBody, "UTF-16") and 
use revMailUnicode OR is plain old revMail now Unicode aware

2) My more important question is how does one create an email with an attached 
file? I see no feature of revMail to include an attachment. Is there some other 
way? If there is no way to add an attachment, what might the best practice for 
sending the contents and structure of a Livecode array be?


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Slow stack problem

[Neville Smythe via use-livecode]

I am plagued by a new problem which has arisen in an old stack that I have been 
using for years with hundreds of modifications over that time. It was still 
working well until suddenly in the last few week most of its data processing 
handlers have slowed to a crawl. A button that gathers text data from a number 
cards, does some text manipulations and then displays a modal dialog, that used 
to be instantaneous now takes 30 seconds to display the dialog. Another button 
which does extensive text gathering and processing now takes 30 minutes instead 
of 30 seconds.

So I have done something to the data stack in the last few months. It is not a 
change of LC version or platform OS. A standalone I produced a couple of months 
ago does not display this slow behaviour when working on its old version of the 
data stack, but does show it when I apply it to the latest version of the data 
stack.

But I am at loss to figure out what setting I might have changed or what else I 
could have done. I did not change the scripts of the offending buttons since 
the previous version, so it sounds like a setting change. The stack behaves as 
if the processing buttons have difficulty finding all the necessary handlers, 
or as if it is it reporting in to Shanghai or Virginia between handler calls. I 
don’t believe the stack is actually corrupted, actions such as scrolling fields 
or moving between cards all work as normal. The only other piece of information 
is that the CPU ramps up to 100% use in one core , so it is doing something - 
but what? (Memory usage goes up to 500MB but does not keep climbing, unlikely 
to be a memory leak or virtual memory swapping (hmmm?))

I have tried to compare the differences between the old and new version of the 
stacks as files using BBEdit, but most differences seem to be in  binary data 
at the end of the files, whose meaning is opaque.

Any ideas as to what might be causing this, or how I might go about diagnosis, 
would be hugely welcome.


Neville Smytis




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Re: eMail attachment: best practice?

[Matthias Rebbe via use-livecode]

I am not sure how many smtp servers support 2FA yet.
If the mail client can connect to a mailserver then tsNET should also be able 
to.
tsNET external uses a curl library. 
And if 2FA for SMTP gets more common, I am sure tsNet will be updated to 
support it.

I am using tsNET in several projects for sending e-mails with logfiles and 
reports.
This works w/o problems.


Von meinem iPad gesendet

> Am 26.06.2024 um 01:02 schrieb Bob Sneidar via use-livecode 
> :
> 
> I used a properly formatted “url” (it’s not actually a URL) for the server 
> and got a response from the server, so I am communicating, but it’s 
> generating an error even though the user name and password are correct (They 
> are my credentials.)
> 
> Also, considering that almost all servers are forcing the use of 2 factor or 
> Multi-factor authentication these days, it’s probably just better to use the 
> local mail client.
> 
> Bob S
> 
> 
>> On Jun 25, 2024, at 3:53 PM, Bob Sneidar  wrote:
>> 
>> The demo stack URL in the script does not look right. I have never used a 
>> URL in the form of SMTP://:587/ before. That can’t be right!
>> 
>> Bob S
>> 
>> 
 On Jun 25, 2024, at 3:15 PM, matthias rebbe via use-livecode 
  wrote:
>>> 
>>> Instead of using revMail which opens the default mail client app you could 
>>> use tsNET external, which is availlable  for Win/Mac/Linux/iOS and Android.
>>> 
>>> The only thing you have to keep in mind is that tsNet directly sends the 
>>> email instead of opening the default email client.
>>> 
>>> Here you can find an sample stack
>>> https://downloads.techstrategies.com.au/tsnet/smtpexample.livecode
>>> 
>>> And here is a link to a Livecode Lesson
>>> https://lessons.livecode.com/m/4071/l/685661-how-to-send-e-mail-using-the-tsnet-external
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
 Am 25.06.2024 um 22:35 schrieb Paul Dupuis via use-livecode 
 :
 
 Under a specific condition, my app creates an email with some 
 pre-populated information using revMail:
 
 revMail address, [ccAddress, [mailSubject, [messageBody]]]
 
 So, my call is: revMail tSupportEmail, , "Diagnostic Report Information", 
 tEmailBody
 Where tSupportEmail contains a valid email address and tEmailBody contain 
 the information I want to send.
 
 I realize the user still has to click their send button in their email 
 client, but I have 2 questions:
 
 1) I see the Dictionary still lists "revMailUnicode" with the same 
 parameters. If tEmailBody contains Unicode characters do I need to 
 textEncode(tEmailBody, "UTF-16") and use revMailUnicode OR is plain old 
 revMail now Unicode aware
 
 2) My more important question is how does one create an email with an 
 attached file? I see no feature of revMail to include an attachment. Is 
 there some other way? If there is no way to add an attachment, what might 
 the best practice for sending the contents and structure of a Livecode 
 array be?
 
 
 ___
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 use-livecode@lists.runrev.com
 Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your 
 subscription preferences:
 http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
>>> 
>>> ___
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>>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your 
>>> subscription preferences:
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>> 
> 
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Re: eMail attachment: best practice?

[Matthias Rebbe via use-livecode]

The url is right.
The prefixes smtp:// smtps://, http:// https:// ftp:// ftps:// sftp:// and so 
tell the underlying tool which establish the connection to use that protocol.
A trailing :587 means the connection should be established with port 587

If you are running for example a webserver on an other port than 80, e.g. 8080, 
you can would open use the following url in the web browser http://serverip:8080



Von meinem iPad gesendet

> Am 26.06.2024 um 00:55 schrieb Bob Sneidar via use-livecode 
> :
> 
> The demo stack URL in the script does not look right. I have never used a 
> URL in the form of SMTP://:587/ before. That can’t be right!
> 
> Bob S
> 
> 
>> On Jun 25, 2024, at 3:15 PM, matthias rebbe via use-livecode 
>>  wrote:
>> 
>> Instead of using revMail which opens the default mail client app you could 
>> use tsNET external, which is availlable  for Win/Mac/Linux/iOS and Android.
>> 
>> The only thing you have to keep in mind is that tsNet directly sends the 
>> email instead of opening the default email client.
>> 
>> Here you can find an sample stack
>> https://downloads.techstrategies.com.au/tsnet/smtpexample.livecode
>> 
>> And here is a link to a Livecode Lesson
>> https://lessons.livecode.com/m/4071/l/685661-how-to-send-e-mail-using-the-tsnet-external
>> 
>> 
>> 
 Am 25.06.2024 um 22:35 schrieb Paul Dupuis via use-livecode 
 :
>>> 
>>> Under a specific condition, my app creates an email with some pre-populated 
>>> information using revMail:
>>> 
>>> revMail address, [ccAddress, [mailSubject, [messageBody]]]
>>> 
>>> So, my call is: revMail tSupportEmail, , "Diagnostic Report Information", 
>>> tEmailBody
>>> Where tSupportEmail contains a valid email address and tEmailBody contain 
>>> the information I want to send.
>>> 
>>> I realize the user still has to click their send button in their email 
>>> client, but I have 2 questions:
>>> 
>>> 1) I see the Dictionary still lists "revMailUnicode" with the same 
>>> parameters. If tEmailBody contains Unicode characters do I need to 
>>> textEncode(tEmailBody, "UTF-16") and use revMailUnicode OR is plain old 
>>> revMail now Unicode aware
>>> 
>>> 2) My more important question is how does one create an email with an 
>>> attached file? I see no feature of revMail to include an attachment. Is 
>>> there some other way? If there is no way to add an attachment, what might 
>>> the best practice for sending the contents and structure of a Livecode 
>>> array be?
>>> 
>>> 
>>> ___
>>> use-livecode mailing list
>>> use-livecode@lists.runrev.com
>>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your 
>>> subscription preferences:
>>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
>> 
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Re: eMail attachment: best practice?

[Paul Dupuis via use-livecode]

I should have mentioned that my app is for macOS and Windows - no iOS or 
Android version.



On 6/25/2024 5:46 PM, Mark Smith wrote:
I’ve not used revMail but it’s certainly well documented in 
mobileComposeHtmlMail. If you need an example PM me.


Mark


On 25 Jun 2024, at 9:35 PM, Paul Dupuis via use-livecode 
 wrote:


2) My more important question is how does one create an email with an 
attached file? I see no feature of revMail to include an attachment. 
Is there some other way? If there is no way to add an attachment, 
what might the best practice for sending the contents and structure 
of a Livecode array be?





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Re: eMail attachment: best practice?

[Bob Sneidar via use-livecode]

I used a properly formatted “url” (it’s not actually a URL) for the server and 
got a response from the server, so I am communicating, but it’s generating an 
error even though the user name and password are correct (They are my 
credentials.) 

Also, considering that almost all servers are forcing the use of 2 factor or 
Multi-factor authentication these days, it’s probably just better to use the 
local mail client. 

Bob S


> On Jun 25, 2024, at 3:53 PM, Bob Sneidar  wrote:
> 
> The demo stack URL in the script does not look right. I have never used a URL 
> in the form of SMTP://:587/ before. That can’t be right! 
> 
> Bob S
> 
> 
>> On Jun 25, 2024, at 3:15 PM, matthias rebbe via use-livecode 
>>  wrote:
>> 
>> Instead of using revMail which opens the default mail client app you could 
>> use tsNET external, which is availlable  for Win/Mac/Linux/iOS and Android.
>> 
>> The only thing you have to keep in mind is that tsNet directly sends the 
>> email instead of opening the default email client.
>> 
>> Here you can find an sample stack
>> https://downloads.techstrategies.com.au/tsnet/smtpexample.livecode
>> 
>> And here is a link to a Livecode Lesson
>> https://lessons.livecode.com/m/4071/l/685661-how-to-send-e-mail-using-the-tsnet-external
>> 
>> 
>> 
>>> Am 25.06.2024 um 22:35 schrieb Paul Dupuis via use-livecode 
>>> :
>>> 
>>> Under a specific condition, my app creates an email with some pre-populated 
>>> information using revMail:
>>> 
>>> revMail address, [ccAddress, [mailSubject, [messageBody]]]
>>> 
>>> So, my call is: revMail tSupportEmail, , "Diagnostic Report Information", 
>>> tEmailBody
>>> Where tSupportEmail contains a valid email address and tEmailBody contain 
>>> the information I want to send.
>>> 
>>> I realize the user still has to click their send button in their email 
>>> client, but I have 2 questions:
>>> 
>>> 1) I see the Dictionary still lists "revMailUnicode" with the same 
>>> parameters. If tEmailBody contains Unicode characters do I need to 
>>> textEncode(tEmailBody, "UTF-16") and use revMailUnicode OR is plain old 
>>> revMail now Unicode aware
>>> 
>>> 2) My more important question is how does one create an email with an 
>>> attached file? I see no feature of revMail to include an attachment. Is 
>>> there some other way? If there is no way to add an attachment, what might 
>>> the best practice for sending the contents and structure of a Livecode 
>>> array be?
>>> 
>>> 
>>> ___
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>>> subscription preferences:
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>> 
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Re: eMail attachment: best practice?

[Bob Sneidar via use-livecode]

The demo stack URL in the script does not look right. I have never used a URL 
in the form of SMTP://:587/ before. That can’t be right! 

Bob S


> On Jun 25, 2024, at 3:15 PM, matthias rebbe via use-livecode 
>  wrote:
> 
> Instead of using revMail which opens the default mail client app you could 
> use tsNET external, which is availlable  for Win/Mac/Linux/iOS and Android.
> 
> The only thing you have to keep in mind is that tsNet directly sends the 
> email instead of opening the default email client.
> 
> Here you can find an sample stack
> https://downloads.techstrategies.com.au/tsnet/smtpexample.livecode
> 
> And here is a link to a Livecode Lesson
> https://lessons.livecode.com/m/4071/l/685661-how-to-send-e-mail-using-the-tsnet-external
> 
> 
> 
>> Am 25.06.2024 um 22:35 schrieb Paul Dupuis via use-livecode 
>> :
>> 
>> Under a specific condition, my app creates an email with some pre-populated 
>> information using revMail:
>> 
>> revMail address, [ccAddress, [mailSubject, [messageBody]]]
>> 
>> So, my call is: revMail tSupportEmail, , "Diagnostic Report Information", 
>> tEmailBody
>> Where tSupportEmail contains a valid email address and tEmailBody contain 
>> the information I want to send.
>> 
>> I realize the user still has to click their send button in their email 
>> client, but I have 2 questions:
>> 
>> 1) I see the Dictionary still lists "revMailUnicode" with the same 
>> parameters. If tEmailBody contains Unicode characters do I need to 
>> textEncode(tEmailBody, "UTF-16") and use revMailUnicode OR is plain old 
>> revMail now Unicode aware
>> 
>> 2) My more important question is how does one create an email with an 
>> attached file? I see no feature of revMail to include an attachment. Is 
>> there some other way? If there is no way to add an attachment, what might 
>> the best practice for sending the contents and structure of a Livecode array 
>> be?
>> 
>> 
>> ___
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>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription 
>> preferences:
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Re: eMail attachment: best practice?

[matthias rebbe via use-livecode]

Instead of using revMail which opens the default mail client app you could use 
tsNET external, which is availlable  for Win/Mac/Linux/iOS and Android.

The only thing you have to keep in mind is that tsNet directly sends the email 
instead of opening the default email client.

Here you can find an sample stack
https://downloads.techstrategies.com.au/tsnet/smtpexample.livecode

And here is a link to a Livecode Lesson
https://lessons.livecode.com/m/4071/l/685661-how-to-send-e-mail-using-the-tsnet-external



> Am 25.06.2024 um 22:35 schrieb Paul Dupuis via use-livecode 
> :
> 
> Under a specific condition, my app creates an email with some pre-populated 
> information using revMail:
> 
> revMail address, [ccAddress, [mailSubject, [messageBody]]]
> 
> So, my call is: revMail tSupportEmail, , "Diagnostic Report Information", 
> tEmailBody
> Where tSupportEmail contains a valid email address and tEmailBody contain the 
> information I want to send.
> 
> I realize the user still has to click their send button in their email 
> client, but I have 2 questions:
> 
> 1) I see the Dictionary still lists "revMailUnicode" with the same 
> parameters. If tEmailBody contains Unicode characters do I need to 
> textEncode(tEmailBody, "UTF-16") and use revMailUnicode OR is plain old 
> revMail now Unicode aware
> 
> 2) My more important question is how does one create an email with an 
> attached file? I see no feature of revMail to include an attachment. Is there 
> some other way? If there is no way to add an attachment, what might the best 
> practice for sending the contents and structure of a Livecode array be?
> 
> 
> ___
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> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription 
> preferences:
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Re: eMail attachment: best practice?

[Mark Smith via use-livecode]

I’ve not used revMail but it’s certainly well documented in 
mobileComposeHtmlMail. If you need an example PM me. 

Mark


> On 25 Jun 2024, at 9:35 PM, Paul Dupuis via use-livecode 
>  wrote:
> 
> 2) My more important question is how does one create an email with an 
> attached file? I see no feature of revMail to include an attachment. Is there 
> some other way? If there is no way to add an attachment, what might the best 
> practice for sending the contents and structure of a Livecode array be?
> 

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eMail attachment: best practice?

[Paul Dupuis via use-livecode]

Under a specific condition, my app creates an email with some 
pre-populated information using revMail:


revMail address, [ccAddress, [mailSubject, [messageBody]]]

So, my call is: revMail tSupportEmail, , "Diagnostic Report 
Information", tEmailBody
Where tSupportEmail contains a valid email address and tEmailBody 
contain the information I want to send.


I realize the user still has to click their send button in their email 
client, but I have 2 questions:


1) I see the Dictionary still lists "revMailUnicode" with the same 
parameters. If tEmailBody contains Unicode characters do I need to 
textEncode(tEmailBody, "UTF-16") and use revMailUnicode OR is plain old 
revMail now Unicode aware


2) My more important question is how does one create an email with an 
attached file? I see no feature of revMail to include an attachment. Is 
there some other way? If there is no way to add an attachment, what 
might the best practice for sending the contents and structure of a 
Livecode array be?



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Re: Socket Packaging

[Richard Gaskin via use-livecode]

Bob Sneidar wrote:
> I don’t use SSL because I don’t like having to deal with certificates,
> and also because I use a method for encryption that I don’t think
> anyone else has thought of, or at least I can’t find any info online. 

Encryption is half of what SSL offers, the other half being external validation 
that the server you're trying to reach hasn't been spoofed.

I used to roll my own but these days I have audit compliance to meet, so I just 
do things the OG way.

For those of you who need a cert on any modern Ubuntu, it's now a one-liner:

sudo apt install certbot python3-certbot-apache

Run that, follow the prompts, and you're good to go in seconds.

Details:
https://www.digitalocean.com/community/tutorials/how-to-secure-apache-with-let-s-encrypt-on-ubuntu-20-04


Of course it never hurts to do belt AND suspenders, so your encrpyted packaging 
can offer a second layer of protection for critical needs.

Richard Gaskin
FourthWorld.com

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Re: Socket Packaging

[David Bovill via use-livecode]

Yes,  I recently looked at a few reverse proxies. I now run Caddy on
localhost and have some scripts to manage caddyfiles and starting and
stopping the caddy server. Happy to show share if interested in a Zoom.

On Mon, 24 Jun 2024 at 18:56, Mike Kerner via use-livecode <
use-livecode@lists.runrev.com> wrote:

> have a look at caddy. it allows you to reverse proxy and have the best of
> both worlds:
> * server traffic to and from caddy is in the clear, so less mess
> * caddy handles all the cert silliness, while also giving you ssl to/from
> the clients
> we've been doing this for two years (maybe it's three, now). it works
> great, and i never have to think about it.
> also, the configuration was really, really simple.
>
> On Mon, Jun 24, 2024 at 12:23 PM Bob Sneidar via use-livecode <
> use-livecode@lists.runrev.com> wrote:
>
> > Hi all.
> >
> > I came up with deceptively simple wrappers for packaging data for
> > transmission over raw sockets. I can’t send the slyEncrypt and slyDecrypt
> > handlers because I use methods no one else knows. But you can roll your
> own
> > or else eliminate encryption altogether.
> >
> > And to answer the question befor it’s asked, I don’t use SSL because I
> > don’t like having to deal with certificates, and also because I use a
> > method for encryption that I don’t think anyone else has thought of, or
> at
> > least I can’t find any info online.
> >
> > Bob S
> >
> > command packagePayload @pPayload, pUseEncryption
> >if pPayload is an array then \
> >  put arrayEncode(pPayload) into pPayload
> >
> >if pUseEncryption then \
> >  put slyEncrypt(pPayload) into pPayload
> >
> >put base64Encode(pPayload) into pPayload
> > end packagePayload
> >
> > command unpackPayload @pPayload
> >put base64Decode(pPayload) into pPayload
> >
> >if pPayload begins with "salted" then \
> >  put slyDecrypt(pPayload) into pPayload
> >
> >try
> >   put arrayDecode(pPayload) into tResult
> >   put tResult into pPayload
> >catch tError
> >   -- not an array
> >end try
> > end unpackPayload
> >
> > ___
> > use-livecode mailing list
> > use-livecode@lists.runrev.com
> > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your
> > subscription preferences:
> > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
> >
>
>
> --
> On the first day, God created the heavens and the Earth
> On the second day, God created the oceans.
> On the third day, God put the animals on hold for a few hours,
>and did a little diving.
> And God said, "This is good."
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Re: Socket Packaging

[Mike Kerner via use-livecode]

have a look at caddy. it allows you to reverse proxy and have the best of
both worlds:
* server traffic to and from caddy is in the clear, so less mess
* caddy handles all the cert silliness, while also giving you ssl to/from
the clients
we've been doing this for two years (maybe it's three, now). it works
great, and i never have to think about it.
also, the configuration was really, really simple.

On Mon, Jun 24, 2024 at 12:23 PM Bob Sneidar via use-livecode <
use-livecode@lists.runrev.com> wrote:

> Hi all.
>
> I came up with deceptively simple wrappers for packaging data for
> transmission over raw sockets. I can’t send the slyEncrypt and slyDecrypt
> handlers because I use methods no one else knows. But you can roll your own
> or else eliminate encryption altogether.
>
> And to answer the question befor it’s asked, I don’t use SSL because I
> don’t like having to deal with certificates, and also because I use a
> method for encryption that I don’t think anyone else has thought of, or at
> least I can’t find any info online.
>
> Bob S
>
> command packagePayload @pPayload, pUseEncryption
>if pPayload is an array then \
>  put arrayEncode(pPayload) into pPayload
>
>if pUseEncryption then \
>  put slyEncrypt(pPayload) into pPayload
>
>put base64Encode(pPayload) into pPayload
> end packagePayload
>
> command unpackPayload @pPayload
>put base64Decode(pPayload) into pPayload
>
>if pPayload begins with "salted" then \
>  put slyDecrypt(pPayload) into pPayload
>
>try
>   put arrayDecode(pPayload) into tResult
>   put tResult into pPayload
>catch tError
>   -- not an array
>end try
> end unpackPayload
>
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> subscription preferences:
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-- 
On the first day, God created the heavens and the Earth
On the second day, God created the oceans.
On the third day, God put the animals on hold for a few hours,
   and did a little diving.
And God said, "This is good."
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Socket Packaging

[Bob Sneidar via use-livecode]

Hi all. 

I came up with deceptively simple wrappers for packaging data for transmission 
over raw sockets. I can’t send the slyEncrypt and slyDecrypt handlers because I 
use methods no one else knows. But you can roll your own or else eliminate 
encryption altogether. 

And to answer the question befor it’s asked, I don’t use SSL because I don’t 
like having to deal with certificates, and also because I use a method for 
encryption that I don’t think anyone else has thought of, or at least I can’t 
find any info online. 

Bob S

command packagePayload @pPayload, pUseEncryption
   if pPayload is an array then \
 put arrayEncode(pPayload) into pPayload
   
   if pUseEncryption then \
 put slyEncrypt(pPayload) into pPayload
   
   put base64Encode(pPayload) into pPayload
end packagePayload

command unpackPayload @pPayload
   put base64Decode(pPayload) into pPayload
   
   if pPayload begins with "salted" then \
 put slyDecrypt(pPayload) into pPayload
   
   try
  put arrayDecode(pPayload) into tResult
  put tResult into pPayload
   catch tError
  -- not an array
   end try
end unpackPayload

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Re: Windows SE how to clone while dragging

[Bob Sneidar via use-livecode]

Right you are. I would have sworn I tried that! 

Bob S


> On Jun 23, 2024, at 2:36 AM, Curry Kenworthy via use-livecode 
>  wrote:
> 
> Bob:
> 
> > On the MacOS LC SE, I can hold the optionKey down while dragging
> > some selected text and it will clone the selection ...
> 
> > Windows SE ... Is there a key combo for cloning?
> 
> Ctrl.
> 
> Best wishes,
> 
> Curry Kenworthy
> 
> Radically Innovative Christian LiveCode Development
> "PASSION for Elegant, Efficient Code!"
> https://livecodeconsulting.com/


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Re: Windows SE how to clone while dragging

[Curry Kenworthy via use-livecode]

Bob:

> On the MacOS LC SE, I can hold the optionKey down while dragging
> some selected text and it will clone the selection ...

> Windows SE ... Is there a key combo for cloning?

Ctrl.

Best wishes,

Curry Kenworthy

Radically Innovative Christian LiveCode Development
"PASSION for Elegant, Efficient Code!"
https://livecodeconsulting.com/


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Windows SE how to clone while dragging

[Bob Sneidar via use-livecode]

On the MacOS LC SE, I can hold the optionKey down while dragging some selected 
text and it will clone the selection rather than just move it. For some reason, 
in LC for Windows SE, it still only moves the selected text. Bummer! Is there a 
key combo for cloning? If not, WHY?

Bob S


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Re: Printing to pdf

[jbv via use-livecode]

Nevermind, I found the solution : I modified
the printScale property.
Best

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Printing to pdf

[jbv via use-livecode]

Hi list,

I have a stack with several cards 750 x 1000px.
I am trying to print these cards as pdf, but
according to this lesson
https://lessons.livecode.com/m/4071/l/29177-how-to-create-pdfs-using-livecode
the stack size should be 575 x 800 to fit a A4
document ratio.
Is it possible to "force" the printing to different
sizes, without clipping the content of the cards ?

I tried :
print card x into 0,0,750,1000
but the cards are still clipped.

The pdf I need to build is not for printing, only
for reading on screen.

Thank you in advance.
jbv

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Re: Copying groups

[jbv via use-livecode]

Hello,

Yes, indeed, the sharedText property of the field(s) need to be set to 
true.

Many thanks.

jbv


Le 2024-06-21 08:44, panagiotis merakos via use-livecode a écrit :

Hello jbv,

What is the sharedText property of the field(s)? I _think_ it has to be
true in your use case.

Kind regards,
Panos
--

On Fri, 21 Jun 2024 at 14:16, jbv via use-livecode <
use-livecode@lists.runrev.com> wrote:


Hi list,

I have a single card stack containing several groups,
each group containing several fields and images.
I need to copy these groups to a substack.
I use :
copy grp tname of cd 1 of this stack to cd 1 of stack myTarget

The weird thing is that all groups are copied, but the text
content of every field is missing.
What did I miss ?

Thank you in advance.
jbv



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Re: Copying groups

[panagiotis merakos via use-livecode]

Hello jbv,

What is the sharedText property of the field(s)? I _think_ it has to be
true in your use case.

Kind regards,
Panos
--

On Fri, 21 Jun 2024 at 14:16, jbv via use-livecode <
use-livecode@lists.runrev.com> wrote:

> Hi list,
>
> I have a single card stack containing several groups,
> each group containing several fields and images.
> I need to copy these groups to a substack.
> I use :
> copy grp tname of cd 1 of this stack to cd 1 of stack myTarget
>
> The weird thing is that all groups are copied, but the text
> content of every field is missing.
> What did I miss ?
>
> Thank you in advance.
> jbv
>
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Copying groups

[jbv via use-livecode]

Hi list,

I have a single card stack containing several groups,
each group containing several fields and images.
I need to copy these groups to a substack.
I use :
copy grp tname of cd 1 of this stack to cd 1 of stack myTarget

The weird thing is that all groups are copied, but the text
content of every field is missing.
What did I miss ?

Thank you in advance.
jbv

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[[ ANN ]] Release 9.6.12

[panagiotis merakos via use-livecode]

Dear list members,

We are pleased to announce the release of LiveCode 9.6.12 STABLE.

LiveCode 9.6.12 STABLE comes with 19 bugfixes and performance improvements
since the last stable version, including support for adding a privacy
manifest in your iOS app, which is a new requirement for AppStore
submissions.

You can find more details on the bug fixes and improvements of this new
release here:

https://livecode.com/release-9-6-12-stable/

You can find the release in your LiveCode account area or get it via the
automatic updater.

Enjoy!

Kind regards
The LiveCode Team


--
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Re: Survey: Would you buy one or more widgets from the PRO PACK separately?

[Klaus major-k via use-livecode]

Hi Paul,

> Am 14.06.2024 um 21:01 schrieb Paul Dupuis via use-livecode 
> :
> 
> Of those listed, I would pay for (if I needed to, but I have the full LC that 
> includes extensions) the PDF Viewer and, possibly, tsNet PRO
> I do not develop for mobile, so mobile widgets are not of any immediate 
> interest.

sorry for the late response, thank you very much for you feedback!

> On 6/14/2024 2:19 PM, Klaus major-k via use-livecode wrote:
>> Hi friends,
>> 
>> Livecode is selling most of their widgets separately,
>> however not the ones from the PRO PACK:
>> Mobile Debugger
>> Script Profiler
>> tsNet PRO
>> mergAccessory
>> PDF Viewer
>> 
>> But unfortunately the PRO PACK is quite expensive:
>> 328.90 Euro PLUS VAT!
>> 
>> I am sure most of you do not need all the widgets in the
>> PRO PACK, but maybe one or two of them.
>> 
>> So please just write if you'd like to buy one or more of these,
>> maybe we can induce LC to also sell them separately.
>> 
>> --
>> 
>> I confess that this is a quite selfish idea from me, I only
>> use the PDF Viewer widget in my freeware* app and the
>> app exclusively made for my band mates, three of us use
>> an iPad and two of us an Android tablet.
>> 
>> *It's actually "donationware", but noone donated any money
>> so far in the last couple of years. :-/
>> 
>> I bought the complete PRO Pack in the last three years,
>> although I ONLY need the PDF viewer, but cannot afford
>> this anymore. Especially since I do not earn any money
>> with my apps and I need to renew my Apple Developer
>> Membership in october.
>> 
>> I would LOVE to buy just the PDF widget separately!
>> 
>> Thank you for reading!
>> 
>> P.S.
>> Since Android browser cannot display PDF files out of the box,
>> this is no alternative for me.

Best

Klaus

--
Klaus Major
https://www.major-k.de
https://www.major-k.de/bass
kl...@major-k.de


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Re: Hacking LiveCode

[Mike Kerner via use-livecode]

the lc hack repo  has been updated
with more goodness from mark wieder. mark added more patches to powerPlug
and more ways to apply patches to powerStrip
examples:
* can handle object scripts
* can now add missing functions
* new PowerPlugs for additional bugfixes


On Sun, Sep 25, 2022 at 5:57 PM Mike Kerner 
wrote:

> that's one of the things i'm wondering about, like "did you uninstall it,
> or just unload it, or did you uninstall it but not unload it? did you build
> a new version in the test environment and test that against an existing
> install?"
> it's been days since i ran into this, and the only notes that i have on it
> are that i ran into it. i didn't keep track of the recipe.
>
>
> On Sun, Sep 25, 2022 at 5:08 PM Brian Milby via use-livecode <
> use-livecode@lists.runrev.com> wrote:
>
>> Did you restart LiveCode after installing the updated widget?
>>
>> Brian Milby
>> br...@milby7.com
>>
>> > On Sep 25, 2022, at 4:53 PM, Mike Kerner via use-livecode <
>> use-livecode@lists.runrev.com> wrote:
>> >
>> > 1. is that documented, somewhere, because i cannot find it.
>> > 2. that isn't the problem i was having. the problem i was having was
>> that
>> > if i took a widget (navRad, for instance), and added code to it, then
>> > installed the new version, preexisting copies of the widget would not
>> > execute the new code. new copies would.
>> > so, it's 100% possible that i discovered some other behavior, but after
>> > testing it a few times, instead of documenting the recipe, i accepted
>> that
>> > this was the behavior, and went about addressing it. except, today,
>> when i
>> > tested it, the behavior is the one that you would want (in unbuilt apps,
>> > behaviors in newer versions of the widget are reflected in existing
>> copies
>> > of the widget). so i have to go replicate the behavior, again and
>> develop a
>> > recipe, again.
>> > 3. fortunately or not, chasing this particular bear for days has
>> resulted
>> > in a snippet in the hack repo which i hope extracts all properties for
>> an
>> > object, standard or specific.
>>
>> ___
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>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your
>> subscription preferences:
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>>
>
>
> --
> On the first day, God created the heavens and the Earth
> On the second day, God created the oceans.
> On the third day, God put the animals on hold for a few hours,
>and did a little diving.
> And God said, "This is good."
>


-- 
On the first day, God created the heavens and the Earth
On the second day, God created the oceans.
On the third day, God put the animals on hold for a few hours,
   and did a little diving.
And God said, "This is good."
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Re: Survey: Would you buy one or more widgets from the PRO PACK separately?

[Paul Dupuis via use-livecode]

Of those listed, I would pay for (if I needed to, but I have the full LC 
that includes extensions) the PDF Viewer and, possibly, tsNet PRO


I do not develop for mobile, so mobile widgets are not of any immediate 
interest.



On 6/14/2024 2:19 PM, Klaus major-k via use-livecode wrote:

Hi friends,

Livecode is selling most of their widgets separately,
however not the ones from the PRO PACK:
Mobile Debugger
Script Profiler
tsNet PRO
mergAccessory
PDF Viewer

But unfortunately the PRO PACK is quite expensive:
328.90 Euro PLUS VAT!

I am sure most of you do not need all the widgets in the
PRO PACK, but maybe one or two of them.

So please just write if you'd like to buy one or more of these,
maybe we can induce LC to also sell them separately.

--

I confess that this is a quite selfish idea from me, I only
use the PDF Viewer widget in my freeware* app and the
app exclusively made for my band mates, three of us use
an iPad and two of us an Android tablet.

*It's actually "donationware", but noone donated any money
so far in the last couple of years. :-/

I bought the complete PRO Pack in the last three years,
although I ONLY need the PDF viewer, but cannot afford
this anymore. Especially since I do not earn any money
with my apps and I need to renew my Apple Developer
Membership in october.

I would LOVE to buy just the PDF widget separately!

Thank you for reading!

P.S.
Since Android browser cannot display PDF files out of the box,
this is no alternative for me.


Best

Klaus
--
Klaus Major
https://www.major-k.de
https://www.major-k.de/bass
kl...@major-k.de


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Survey: Would you buy one or more widgets from the PRO PACK separately?

[Klaus major-k via use-livecode]

Hi friends,

Livecode is selling most of their widgets separately,
however not the ones from the PRO PACK:
Mobile Debugger
Script Profiler
tsNet PRO
mergAccessory
PDF Viewer

But unfortunately the PRO PACK is quite expensive: 
328.90 Euro PLUS VAT!

I am sure most of you do not need all the widgets in the 
PRO PACK, but maybe one or two of them.

So please just write if you'd like to buy one or more of these, 
maybe we can induce LC to also sell them separately.

--

I confess that this is a quite selfish idea from me, I only
use the PDF Viewer widget in my freeware* app and the 
app exclusively made for my band mates, three of us use 
an iPad and two of us an Android tablet.

*It's actually "donationware", but noone donated any money
so far in the last couple of years. :-/

I bought the complete PRO Pack in the last three years, 
although I ONLY need the PDF viewer, but cannot afford 
this anymore. Especially since I do not earn any money 
with my apps and I need to renew my Apple Developer 
Membership in october. 

I would LOVE to buy just the PDF widget separately!

Thank you for reading!

P.S.
Since Android browser cannot display PDF files out of the box, 
this is no alternative for me.


Best

Klaus
--
Klaus Major
https://www.major-k.de
https://www.major-k.de/bass
kl...@major-k.de


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Re: Pop Combo Menu

[Craig Newman via use-livecode]

"I was hoping I could do it without a click.”

Why? That works like a charm, and does not even make the slightest sound. 

Craig

> On Jun 12, 2024, at 4:23 PM, Bob Sneidar via use-livecode 
>  wrote:
> 
> I was hoping I could do it without a click. 

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Re: Different borders for a group

[Craig Newman via use-livecode]

Hi.

The borderWidth is a property of the entire border. You will have to add your 
own one by one. Hey, at least  that allows you to change colors and other 
things as well.

Craig

> On Jun 13, 2024, at 4:28 AM, jbv via use-livecode 
>  wrote:
> 
> Hi list,
> 
> Is there a way to have different border widths and colors
> for the top and the bottom of a group ?
> Or should I include graphic lines inside the group ?
> 
> Thank you in advance.
> jbv
> 
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Different borders for a group

[jbv via use-livecode]

Hi list,

Is there a way to have different border widths and colors
for the top and the bottom of a group ?
Or should I include graphic lines inside the group ?

Thank you in advance.
jbv

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Re: Mosquitto library.

[Tom Glod via use-livecode]

I was just viewitng the "livecode" tag on github. and saw this library.

https://github.com/trevordevore/lc-mosquitto

Trevor is prolific. Big respect.

On Wed, Jun 12, 2024 at 7:33 PM Alex Tweedly via use-livecode <
use-livecode@lists.runrev.com> wrote:

>
> On 12/06/2024 18:26, Richard Gaskin via use-livecode wrote:
> > Mike Kerner wrote:
> >
> >> Richard wrote:
> >>> Either way, I'd imagine a subscribe client looking to avoid polling
> >>> is going to depend on a long-lived socket, no?
> >> That's part of the point of a websocket. you don't have to keep
> >> reopening it, and both ends can use it, as needed.
> > Exactly, websockets are useful in browser apps because browsers don't
> offer direct socket support.
> >
> > LiveCode makes OS-native apps and supports sockets.\
>
> If the "OS" is 'web', will LC support sockets?
>
> According to the dictionary, it doesn't = but that might (I hope) be out
> of date. But this might be the place we really need to use websockets.
>
> Alex.
>
>
>
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iPad Keyboard and rawKeyDown

[scott--- via use-livecode]

I’m new to using a physical keyboard with an iPad and haven’t ever done any 
testing to see if it worked in LiveCode. My recent experience using the new 
“Magic Keyboard for iPad Pro" is that rawKeyDown (and rawKeyUp) messages are 
not being handled by LiveCode. Is this a general failing of mobileKeyboards 
(the dictionary suggests not) an issue with just this newly released keyboard… 
or perhaps the more likely problem of developer error?

Just checking in before I submit a bug (or enhancement?) report.

--
Scott Morrow

Elementary Software
(Now with 20% less chalk dust!)
web   https://elementarysoftware.com
email sc...@elementarysoftware.com
booth1-360-734-4701
--








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Re: Apple developer application and installer certificates

[Mike Kerner via use-livecode]

for anyone else dropping into this thread, custom apps have to be rebuilt
with a new cert, once per year.
it's not a big deal, it's just something that has to be done. it takes a
few minutes, max.

On Wed, Jun 12, 2024 at 6:11 PM matthias rebbe via use-livecode <
use-livecode@lists.runrev.com> wrote:

> Hello Tariel,
>
> renewing is very easy and takes only minutes. If you want, I can guide you
> through this process.
> Just contact me off-list.
>
> Regards,
> Matthias
>
> > Am 12.06.2024 um 17:07 schrieb Tariel Gogoberidze via use-livecode <
> use-livecode@lists.runrev.com>:
> >
> > Hello,
> >
> > I received message from apple that
> >
> > --
> > Your Developer ID Installer Certificate will no longer be valid in 30
> days. To generate a new certificate, sign in and visit Certificates,
> Identifiers & Profiles.
> >
> > And
> >
> > Your Developer ID Application Certificate will no longer be valid in 30
> days. To generate a new certificate, sign in and visit Certificates,
> Identifiers & Profiles.
> > —
> >
> > We do have applications created in LiveCode that we are still selling
> (outside of apple store) but this applications were apple certified with
> the help of Matthias Rebbe and I have no idea how to renew or generate new
> Installer and Developer ID certificates.
> >
> > The remote colocation computer on which Matthias did this certification
> magic is still available to connect to and we do have apple developer
> account. So if Matthias or somebody else is willing to help (for a payment
> of course) I will appreciate it and will provide access to remote computer,
> apple developer ID and other necessary information.
> >
> > Regards
> > Tariel Gogoveridze
> >
> >
> >
> > ___
> > use-livecode mailing list
> > use-livecode@lists.runrev.com
> > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your
> subscription preferences:
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>
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> subscription preferences:
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-- 
On the first day, God created the heavens and the Earth
On the second day, God created the oceans.
On the third day, God put the animals on hold for a few hours,
   and did a little diving.
And God said, "This is good."
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Re: Mosquitto library.

[Alex Tweedly via use-livecode]

On 12/06/2024 18:26, Richard Gaskin via use-livecode wrote:

Mike Kerner wrote:


Richard wrote:

Either way, I'd imagine a subscribe client looking to avoid polling
is going to depend on a long-lived socket, no?

That's part of the point of a websocket. you don't have to keep
reopening it, and both ends can use it, as needed.

Exactly, websockets are useful in browser apps because browsers don't offer 
direct socket support.

LiveCode makes OS-native apps and supports sockets.\


If the "OS" is 'web', will LC support sockets?

According to the dictionary, it doesn't = but that might (I hope) be out 
of date. But this might be the place we really need to use websockets.


Alex.



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Re: Apple developer application and installer certificates

[matthias rebbe via use-livecode]

Hello Tariel,

renewing is very easy and takes only minutes. If you want, I can guide you 
through this process.
Just contact me off-list.

Regards,
Matthias

> Am 12.06.2024 um 17:07 schrieb Tariel Gogoberidze via use-livecode 
> :
> 
> Hello,
> 
> I received message from apple that 
> 
> --
> Your Developer ID Installer Certificate will no longer be valid in 30 days. 
> To generate a new certificate, sign in and visit Certificates, Identifiers & 
> Profiles.
> 
> And 
> 
> Your Developer ID Application Certificate will no longer be valid in 30 days. 
> To generate a new certificate, sign in and visit Certificates, Identifiers & 
> Profiles.
> —
> 
> We do have applications created in LiveCode that we are still selling 
> (outside of apple store) but this applications were apple certified with the 
> help of Matthias Rebbe and I have no idea how to renew or generate new 
> Installer and Developer ID certificates.
> 
> The remote colocation computer on which Matthias did this certification magic 
> is still available to connect to and we do have apple developer account. So 
> if Matthias or somebody else is willing to help (for a payment of course) I 
> will appreciate it and will provide access to remote computer, apple 
> developer ID and other necessary information.
> 
> Regards
> Tariel Gogoveridze
> 
> 
> 
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Re: Date Words

[Mark Smith via use-livecode]

Hi Bob,

I love the concept in principle but that’s a lot of code (to write and debug) 
and it does’t cover every possible permutation and combination of date 
requests. I long for a time when we can just capture a string like “a week from 
next Friday” and then call…

 function string2gptDate
 chatGPT “what is the date “ & “a week from next Friday” -- the latter 
being the captured input, probably expressed as a field or var
 return it
end string2gptDate

Which I just tried after prompting “when asked for a date please return the 
date and not an explanation as to how you arrived at the date” and in response 
to the above it returned "June 28, 2024”.

Magnifico!

Mark 

> On 12 Jun 2024, at 4:20 PM, Bob Sneidar via use-livecode 
>  wrote:
> 
> Hi all. 
> 
> Did you ever want to use phrases like yesterday, last tuesday or next friday 
> in a date field? 
> 
> function dateWords pDate
>   if word 1 of pDate is not among the items of 
> "last,next,yesterday,today,tomorrow" then \
> return empty
> 
>   put date() into tCurrentDate
>   convert tCurrentDate to dateItems
> 
>   if the number of words of pDate = 2 then
>  put "sunday,monday,tuesday,wednesday,thursday,friday,saturday" into 
> tDaysOfWeek
>  put itemOffset(word 2 of pDate, tDaysOfWeek) into tDayNumber
>  put item 7 of tCurrentDate into tThisDayNumber
> 
>  if tDayNumber = 0 then \
>return empty
>   end if
> 
>   switch
>  case word 1 of pDate is "last"
> if tDayNumber >= tThisDayNumber then \
>   subtract 7 from item 3 of tCurrentDate
> add (tDayNumber - tThisDayNumber) to item 3 of tCurrentDate
> break
>  case word 1 of pDate is "next"
> add 7-tDayNumber to item 3 of tCurrentDate
> break
>  case pDate is "yesterday"
> subtract 1 from item 3 of tCurrentDate
> break
>  case pDate is "today"
> -- don't do anything
> break
>  case pDate is "tomorrow"
> add 1 to item 3 of tCurrentDate
> break
>   end switch
> 
>   put formatDate(tCurrentDate, "standard") into pDate
>   return pDate
> end dateWords
> 
> FUNCTION formatDate theDate, theFormat
>   /*
>   Accepts any valid date for the first parameter. If not a valid date, it 
> simply returns
>   what was passed. Second parameter can be any of the following:
>   sql date: date in the -mm-dd format
>   short date, abbreviated date, internet date, long date: LC versions of the 
> same
>   julian date: Julian number based on (I believe) Jacques formula
>   standard date: The date in the form of "mm/dd/"
>   */
> 
>   put theDate into tSavedDate
>   put the itemdelimiter into theOldDelim
>   set the itemdelimiter to "-"
> 
>   IF the length of item 1 of theDate = 4 AND \
> the number of items of theDate = 3 AND \
> item 1 of theDate is a number AND \
> item 2 of theDate is a number AND \
> item 3 of theDate is a number THEN
>  put item 2 of theDate & "/" & \
>item 3 of theDate & "/" & \
>item 1 of theDate into theDate
>   END IF
> 
>   -- replace "." with "/" in theDate
>   convert theDate to dateitems
>   set the itemdelimiter to theOldDelim
> 
>   --   if the number of items of theDate <> 7 then
>   --  answer "'" & theDate & "' is not a valid date format!"
>   --  return tSavedDate
>   --   end if
> 
>   SWITCH word 1 of theFormat
>  CASE "sql"
> /*
> put item 1 of theDate & "-" & \
>   format("%02d",item 2 of theDate) & "-" & \
>   format("%02d",item 3 of theDate) into theDate
> */
> put format("%s-%02d-%02d", item 1 of theDate, item 2 of theDate, \
>   item 3 of theDate) into theDate
> break
>  CASE "short"
> convert theDate from dateitems to short date
> break
>  CASE "abbreviated"
> convert theDate from dateitems to abbreviated date
> break
>  CASE "abbr"
> convert theDate from dateitems to abbreviated date
> break
>  CASE "internet"
> convert theDate from dateitems to internet date
> break
>  CASE "long"
> convert theDate from dateitems to long date
> break
>  CASE "julian"
> put the date into theDate
> convert theDate to dateItems
> IF  ((item 2 of theDate = 1) OR (item 2 of theDate = 2)) THEN
>put 1 into theDay
> ELSE
>put 0 into theDay
> END IF
> put item 1 of theDate + 4800 - theDay into theYear
> put item 2 of theDate + (12 * theDay) - 3 into theMonth
> put item 3 of theDate + \
>   ((153 * theMonth + 2) div 5) + \
>   (365 * theYear) + \
>   (theYear div 4) - \
>   (theYear div 100) + \
>   (theYear div 400) - \
>   32045 into theDate
> break
>  case "standard"
> put format("%02d/%02d/%04d", item 2 of 

Re: Pop Combo Menu

[Bob Sneidar via use-livecode]

BUUUTTT… It looks like that detaches the menu from the button so any subsequent 
click on the actual menu button displays the button as a popup menu. 

Bob S


> On Jun 12, 2024, at 1:25 PM, Bob Sneidar  wrote:
> 
> Hmmm looks like I can use popup button  and provide a location. 
> 
> Bob S
> 
> 
>> On Jun 12, 2024, at 1:23 PM, Bob Sneidar via use-livecode 
>>  wrote:
>> 
>> Thanks I was hoping I could do it without a click. Something like pop menu 
>> . There is a popup menu command but I think that only works with 
>> popup menus. 
>> 
>> Bob S
>> 
>> 
>>> On Jun 12, 2024, at 1:01 PM, Paul Dupuis via use-livecode 
>>>  wrote:
>>> 
>>> On 6/12/2024 3:01 PM, Paul Dupuis via use-livecode wrote:
 *click*at(rightofbtn1- 5,topofbtn1+ 5)
>>> 
>>> Sorry that line of code is: (paste of formatted text messed it up)
>>> 
>>> click at (right of btn 1 - 5,top of btn 1 + 5)
>>> 
>>> ___
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>>> subscription preferences:
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>> 
>> 
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Re: Pop Combo Menu

[Bob Sneidar via use-livecode]

Hmmm looks like I can use popup button  and provide a location. 

Bob S


> On Jun 12, 2024, at 1:23 PM, Bob Sneidar via use-livecode 
>  wrote:
> 
> Thanks I was hoping I could do it without a click. Something like pop menu 
> . There is a popup menu command but I think that only works with 
> popup menus. 
> 
> Bob S
> 
> 
>> On Jun 12, 2024, at 1:01 PM, Paul Dupuis via use-livecode 
>>  wrote:
>> 
>> On 6/12/2024 3:01 PM, Paul Dupuis via use-livecode wrote:
>>> *click*at(rightofbtn1- 5,topofbtn1+ 5)
>> 
>> Sorry that line of code is: (paste of formatted text messed it up)
>> 
>> click at (right of btn 1 - 5,top of btn 1 + 5)
>> 
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Re: Pop Combo Menu

[Bob Sneidar via use-livecode]

Thanks I was hoping I could do it without a click. Something like pop menu 
. There is a popup menu command but I think that only works with 
popup menus. 

Bob S


> On Jun 12, 2024, at 1:01 PM, Paul Dupuis via use-livecode 
>  wrote:
> 
> On 6/12/2024 3:01 PM, Paul Dupuis via use-livecode wrote:
>> *click*at(rightofbtn1- 5,topofbtn1+ 5)
> 
> Sorry that line of code is: (paste of formatted text messed it up)
> 
> click at (right of btn 1 - 5,top of btn 1 + 5)
> 
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Re: Pop Combo Menu

[Paul Dupuis via use-livecode]

On 6/12/2024 3:01 PM, Paul Dupuis via use-livecode wrote:

*click*at(rightofbtn1- 5,topofbtn1+ 5)


Sorry that line of code is: (paste of formatted text messed it up)

click at (right of btn 1 - 5,top of btn 1 + 5)

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Re: Pop Combo Menu

[Paul Dupuis via use-livecode]

On 6/12/2024 2:20 PM, Bob Sneidar via use-livecode wrote:

Hi all. I have a Combo Menu button. I want to have it “pop” open and show the 
options via script, but I cannot find a command to do that.

Bob S

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You can use:

*click*at(rightofbtn1- 5,topofbtn1+ 5)

assuming the combo button is 'btn 1' on your card or replace btn 1 with 
a reference to your combo button. The idea is to generate a "click" at 
the location of the pulldown arrow part of the combo button.


You can create a new empty stack and place a combo btn on it and try 
line of code in the message box with the browse tool selected.





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Re: Mosquitto library.

[Mike Kerner via use-livecode]

the original question was about mosquitto and handling messaging, thus the
remarks about websockets.
bob:
the server just opens the port and listens. there is no timeout on the
server. the client sends the request, and then times out if it does not
receive a reply.
whether it receives a reply or times out, the request is closed, and the
client stops listening. the server does not retain the ability to continue
to communicate with the client, once it has replied. websockets keep that
channel open.

On Wed, Jun 12, 2024 at 1:40 PM Bob Sneidar via use-livecode <
use-livecode@lists.runrev.com> wrote:

> Hi Richard.
>
> This email thread now has me curious. If I have an app that starts
> listening on a port, does that server port have a timeout associated with
> it that needs refreshing, or does the timeout only exist when a client
> connects? I have always assumed the latter.
>
> Bob S
>
>
> > On Jun 12, 2024, at 10:26 AM, Richard Gaskin via use-livecode <
> use-livecode@lists.runrev.com> wrote:
> >
> > Mike Kerner wrote:
> >
> >> Richard wrote:
> >>> Either way, I'd imagine a subscribe client looking to avoid polling
> >>> is going to depend on a long-lived socket, no?
> >>
> >> That's part of the point of a websocket. you don't have to keep
> >> reopening it, and both ends can use it, as needed.
> >
> > Exactly, websockets are useful in browser apps because browsers don't
> offer direct socket support.
> >
> > LiveCode makes OS-native apps and supports sockets.
> >
> > The socketTimeoutInterval lets us set how long they live.
> >
> > What am I missing?
> >
> > --
> > Richard Gaskin
> > FourthWorld.com
> >
> > ___
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-- 
On the first day, God created the heavens and the Earth
On the second day, God created the oceans.
On the third day, God put the animals on hold for a few hours,
   and did a little diving.
And God said, "This is good."
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Pop Combo Menu

[Bob Sneidar via use-livecode]

Hi all. I have a Combo Menu button. I want to have it “pop” open and show the 
options via script, but I cannot find a command to do that. 

Bob S

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Re: Mosquitto library.

[Bob Sneidar via use-livecode]

Hi Richard. 

This email thread now has me curious. If I have an app that starts listening on 
a port, does that server port have a timeout associated with it that needs 
refreshing, or does the timeout only exist when a client connects? I have 
always assumed the latter. 

Bob S


> On Jun 12, 2024, at 10:26 AM, Richard Gaskin via use-livecode 
>  wrote:
> 
> Mike Kerner wrote:
> 
>> Richard wrote:
>>> Either way, I'd imagine a subscribe client looking to avoid polling
>>> is going to depend on a long-lived socket, no?
>> 
>> That's part of the point of a websocket. you don't have to keep
>> reopening it, and both ends can use it, as needed.
> 
> Exactly, websockets are useful in browser apps because browsers don't offer 
> direct socket support.
> 
> LiveCode makes OS-native apps and supports sockets.
> 
> The socketTimeoutInterval lets us set how long they live.
> 
> What am I missing?
> 
> --
> Richard Gaskin
> FourthWorld.com
> 
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Re: Mosquitto library.

[Richard Gaskin via use-livecode]

Mike Kerner wrote:

> Richard wrote:
>> Either way, I'd imagine a subscribe client looking to avoid polling
>> is going to depend on a long-lived socket, no?
>
> That's part of the point of a websocket. you don't have to keep
> reopening it, and both ends can use it, as needed.

Exactly, websockets are useful in browser apps because browsers don't offer 
direct socket support.

LiveCode makes OS-native apps and supports sockets.

The socketTimeoutInterval lets us set how long they live.

What am I missing?

--
Richard Gaskin
FourthWorld.com

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Date Words

[Bob Sneidar via use-livecode]

Hi all. 

Did you ever want to use phrases like yesterday, last tuesday or next friday in 
a date field? 

function dateWords pDate
   if word 1 of pDate is not among the items of 
"last,next,yesterday,today,tomorrow" then \
 return empty
   
   put date() into tCurrentDate
   convert tCurrentDate to dateItems
   
   if the number of words of pDate = 2 then
  put "sunday,monday,tuesday,wednesday,thursday,friday,saturday" into 
tDaysOfWeek
  put itemOffset(word 2 of pDate, tDaysOfWeek) into tDayNumber
  put item 7 of tCurrentDate into tThisDayNumber
  
  if tDayNumber = 0 then \
return empty
   end if
   
   switch
  case word 1 of pDate is "last"
 if tDayNumber >= tThisDayNumber then \
   subtract 7 from item 3 of tCurrentDate
 add (tDayNumber - tThisDayNumber) to item 3 of tCurrentDate
 break
  case word 1 of pDate is "next"
 add 7-tDayNumber to item 3 of tCurrentDate
 break
  case pDate is "yesterday"
 subtract 1 from item 3 of tCurrentDate
 break
  case pDate is "today"
 -- don't do anything
 break
  case pDate is "tomorrow"
 add 1 to item 3 of tCurrentDate
 break
   end switch
   
   put formatDate(tCurrentDate, "standard") into pDate
   return pDate
end dateWords

FUNCTION formatDate theDate, theFormat
   /*
   Accepts any valid date for the first parameter. If not a valid date, it 
simply returns
   what was passed. Second parameter can be any of the following:
   sql date: date in the -mm-dd format
   short date, abbreviated date, internet date, long date: LC versions of the 
same
   julian date: Julian number based on (I believe) Jacques formula
   standard date: The date in the form of "mm/dd/"
   */
   
   put theDate into tSavedDate
   put the itemdelimiter into theOldDelim
   set the itemdelimiter to "-"
   
   IF the length of item 1 of theDate = 4 AND \
 the number of items of theDate = 3 AND \
 item 1 of theDate is a number AND \
 item 2 of theDate is a number AND \
 item 3 of theDate is a number THEN
  put item 2 of theDate & "/" & \
item 3 of theDate & "/" & \
item 1 of theDate into theDate
   END IF
   
   -- replace "." with "/" in theDate
   convert theDate to dateitems
   set the itemdelimiter to theOldDelim
   
   --   if the number of items of theDate <> 7 then
   --  answer "'" & theDate & "' is not a valid date format!"
   --  return tSavedDate
   --   end if
   
   SWITCH word 1 of theFormat
  CASE "sql"
 /*
 put item 1 of theDate & "-" & \
   format("%02d",item 2 of theDate) & "-" & \
   format("%02d",item 3 of theDate) into theDate
 */
 put format("%s-%02d-%02d", item 1 of theDate, item 2 of theDate, \
   item 3 of theDate) into theDate
 break
  CASE "short"
 convert theDate from dateitems to short date
 break
  CASE "abbreviated"
 convert theDate from dateitems to abbreviated date
 break
  CASE "abbr"
 convert theDate from dateitems to abbreviated date
 break
  CASE "internet"
 convert theDate from dateitems to internet date
 break
  CASE "long"
 convert theDate from dateitems to long date
 break
  CASE "julian"
 put the date into theDate
 convert theDate to dateItems
 IF  ((item 2 of theDate = 1) OR (item 2 of theDate = 2)) THEN
put 1 into theDay
 ELSE
put 0 into theDay
 END IF
 put item 1 of theDate + 4800 - theDay into theYear
 put item 2 of theDate + (12 * theDay) - 3 into theMonth
 put item 3 of theDate + \
   ((153 * theMonth + 2) div 5) + \
   (365 * theYear) + \
   (theYear div 4) - \
   (theYear div 100) + \
   (theYear div 400) - \
   32045 into theDate
 break
  case "standard"
 put format("%02d/%02d/%04d", item 2 of theDate, item 3 of theDate, \
   item 1 of theDate) into theDate
 break
  default 
 -- answer info "'" & theFormat & "' is not a valid parameter." 
As sheet
 put tSavedDate into theDate
   END SWITCH
   
   return theDate
END formatDate

Bob S
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Apple developer application and installer certificates

[Tariel Gogoberidze via use-livecode]

Hello,

I received message from apple that 

--
Your Developer ID Installer Certificate will no longer be valid in 30 days. To 
generate a new certificate, sign in and visit Certificates, Identifiers & 
Profiles.

And 

Your Developer ID Application Certificate will no longer be valid in 30 days. 
To generate a new certificate, sign in and visit Certificates, Identifiers & 
Profiles.
—

We do have applications created in LiveCode that we are still selling (outside 
of apple store) but this applications were apple certified with the help of 
Matthias Rebbe and I have no idea how to renew or generate new Installer and 
Developer ID certificates.

The remote colocation computer on which Matthias did this certification magic 
is still available to connect to and we do have apple developer account. So if 
Matthias or somebody else is willing to help (for a payment of course) I will 
appreciate it and will provide access to remote computer, apple developer ID 
and other necessary information.

Regards
Tariel Gogoveridze



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Re: Mosquitto library.

[Mike Kerner via use-livecode]

>Either way, I'd imagine a subscribe client looking to avoid polling is
going to depend on a long-lived socket, no?
That's part of the point of a websocket. you don't have to keep reopening
it, and both ends can use it, as needed.

On Mon, Jun 10, 2024 at 11:38 AM Bob Sneidar via use-livecode <
use-livecode@lists.runrev.com> wrote:

> No, and Yes. ;-)
>
> Bob S
>
>
> On Jun 8, 2024, at 6:11 PM, Richard Gaskin via use-livecode <
> use-livecode@lists.runrev.com> wrote:
>
> * if we get websockets working, that will be another way to make this work.
>
> Do we need websockets on this?  XMPP, for example, runs over regular
> sockets.
>
> Either way, I'd imagine a subscribe client looking to avoid polling is
> going to depend on a long-lived socket, no?
>
>
> Richard Gaskin
> FourthWorld.com
>
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-- 
On the first day, God created the heavens and the Earth
On the second day, God created the oceans.
On the third day, God put the animals on hold for a few hours,
   and did a little diving.
And God said, "This is good."
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Re: Mosquitto library.

[Bob Sneidar via use-livecode]

No, and Yes. ;-)

Bob S


On Jun 8, 2024, at 6:11 PM, Richard Gaskin via use-livecode 
 wrote:

* if we get websockets working, that will be another way to make this work.

Do we need websockets on this?  XMPP, for example, runs over regular sockets.

Either way, I'd imagine a subscribe client looking to avoid polling is going to 
depend on a long-lived socket, no?


Richard Gaskin
FourthWorld.com

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Re: Mosquitto library.

[Richard Gaskin via use-livecode]

Mike Kerner wrote:

> * if you're on mobile, you can use push

Desktop push isn't supported in LC's notifications API?


> * you can also set up a small web server in your app to receive messages.
> levure uses this technique to receive messages from a plugin in sublime
> text that a script has been updated (so livecode will reload the script)

Good on a LAN, but how do you get past a firewall without port forwarding?


> * if we get websockets working, that will be another way to make this work.

Do we need websockets on this?  XMPP, for example, runs over regular sockets.

Either way, I'd imagine a subscribe client looking to avoid polling is going to 
depend on a long-lived socket, no?


Richard Gaskin
FourthWorld.com

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Re: Mosquitto library.

[Mike Kerner via use-livecode]

it might be time for the compiler to come out of the vaporware
or the web features to come out of the vaporware
if you've never set up a web server, there is example code in levure for
setting up a tiny one to receive and respond to events.

On Fri, Jun 7, 2024 at 6:15 PM Tom Glod via use-livecode <
use-livecode@lists.runrev.com> wrote:

> I think it might be time to solve this.
>
> On Fri, Jun 7, 2024 at 6:13 PM Tom Glod  wrote:
>
> > websockets again.
> >
> > On Fri, Jun 7, 2024 at 3:46 PM Mike Kerner via use-livecode <
> > use-livecode@lists.runrev.com> wrote:
> >
> >> * if you're on mobile, you can use push
> >> * you can also set up a small web server in your app to receive
> messages.
> >> levure uses this technique to receive messages from a plugin in sublime
> >> text that a script has been updated (so livecode will reload the script)
> >> * if we get websockets working, that will be another way to make this
> >> work.
> >>
> >> On Fri, Jun 7, 2024 at 2:26 PM Peter Bogdanoff via use-livecode <
> >> use-livecode@lists.runrev.com> wrote:
> >>
> >> > Related to Mosquitto and the publish/subscribe model: is there any
> >> method
> >> > now in LiveCode for my application to receive outside messages without
> >> > explicitly checking to see if anything is available? In other words,
> is
> >> > there a way for a message from a server to directly enter the message
> >> path
> >> > within LC?
> >> >
> >> > Or is this totally dependent on a plugin based on something like what
> >> > Joseba is asking?
> >> >
> >> > Peter Bogdanoff
> >> >
> >> > > On Jun 7, 2024, at 12:43 PM, Tom Glod via use-livecode <
> >> > use-livecode@lists.runrev.com> wrote:
> >> > >
> >> > >> Mosquitto library
> >> >
> >> > ___
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> >> > use-livecode@lists.runrev.com
> >> > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your
> >> > subscription preferences:
> >> > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
> >> >
> >>
> >>
> >> --
> >> On the first day, God created the heavens and the Earth
> >> On the second day, God created the oceans.
> >> On the third day, God put the animals on hold for a few hours,
> >>and did a little diving.
> >> And God said, "This is good."
> >> ___
> >> use-livecode mailing list
> >> use-livecode@lists.runrev.com
> >> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your
> >> subscription preferences:
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> >>
> >
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-- 
On the first day, God created the heavens and the Earth
On the second day, God created the oceans.
On the third day, God put the animals on hold for a few hours,
   and did a little diving.
And God said, "This is good."
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Re: Mosquitto library.

[Tom Glod via use-livecode]

I think it might be time to solve this.

On Fri, Jun 7, 2024 at 6:13 PM Tom Glod  wrote:

> websockets again.
>
> On Fri, Jun 7, 2024 at 3:46 PM Mike Kerner via use-livecode <
> use-livecode@lists.runrev.com> wrote:
>
>> * if you're on mobile, you can use push
>> * you can also set up a small web server in your app to receive messages.
>> levure uses this technique to receive messages from a plugin in sublime
>> text that a script has been updated (so livecode will reload the script)
>> * if we get websockets working, that will be another way to make this
>> work.
>>
>> On Fri, Jun 7, 2024 at 2:26 PM Peter Bogdanoff via use-livecode <
>> use-livecode@lists.runrev.com> wrote:
>>
>> > Related to Mosquitto and the publish/subscribe model: is there any
>> method
>> > now in LiveCode for my application to receive outside messages without
>> > explicitly checking to see if anything is available? In other words, is
>> > there a way for a message from a server to directly enter the message
>> path
>> > within LC?
>> >
>> > Or is this totally dependent on a plugin based on something like what
>> > Joseba is asking?
>> >
>> > Peter Bogdanoff
>> >
>> > > On Jun 7, 2024, at 12:43 PM, Tom Glod via use-livecode <
>> > use-livecode@lists.runrev.com> wrote:
>> > >
>> > >> Mosquitto library
>> >
>> > ___
>> > use-livecode mailing list
>> > use-livecode@lists.runrev.com
>> > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your
>> > subscription preferences:
>> > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
>> >
>>
>>
>> --
>> On the first day, God created the heavens and the Earth
>> On the second day, God created the oceans.
>> On the third day, God put the animals on hold for a few hours,
>>and did a little diving.
>> And God said, "This is good."
>> ___
>> use-livecode mailing list
>> use-livecode@lists.runrev.com
>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your
>> subscription preferences:
>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
>>
>
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Re: Mosquitto library.

[Tom Glod via use-livecode]

websockets again.

On Fri, Jun 7, 2024 at 3:46 PM Mike Kerner via use-livecode <
use-livecode@lists.runrev.com> wrote:

> * if you're on mobile, you can use push
> * you can also set up a small web server in your app to receive messages.
> levure uses this technique to receive messages from a plugin in sublime
> text that a script has been updated (so livecode will reload the script)
> * if we get websockets working, that will be another way to make this work.
>
> On Fri, Jun 7, 2024 at 2:26 PM Peter Bogdanoff via use-livecode <
> use-livecode@lists.runrev.com> wrote:
>
> > Related to Mosquitto and the publish/subscribe model: is there any method
> > now in LiveCode for my application to receive outside messages without
> > explicitly checking to see if anything is available? In other words, is
> > there a way for a message from a server to directly enter the message
> path
> > within LC?
> >
> > Or is this totally dependent on a plugin based on something like what
> > Joseba is asking?
> >
> > Peter Bogdanoff
> >
> > > On Jun 7, 2024, at 12:43 PM, Tom Glod via use-livecode <
> > use-livecode@lists.runrev.com> wrote:
> > >
> > >> Mosquitto library
> >
> > ___
> > use-livecode mailing list
> > use-livecode@lists.runrev.com
> > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your
> > subscription preferences:
> > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
> >
>
>
> --
> On the first day, God created the heavens and the Earth
> On the second day, God created the oceans.
> On the third day, God put the animals on hold for a few hours,
>and did a little diving.
> And God said, "This is good."
> ___
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Re: Mosquitto library.

[Mike Kerner via use-livecode]

* if you're on mobile, you can use push
* you can also set up a small web server in your app to receive messages.
levure uses this technique to receive messages from a plugin in sublime
text that a script has been updated (so livecode will reload the script)
* if we get websockets working, that will be another way to make this work.

On Fri, Jun 7, 2024 at 2:26 PM Peter Bogdanoff via use-livecode <
use-livecode@lists.runrev.com> wrote:

> Related to Mosquitto and the publish/subscribe model: is there any method
> now in LiveCode for my application to receive outside messages without
> explicitly checking to see if anything is available? In other words, is
> there a way for a message from a server to directly enter the message path
> within LC?
>
> Or is this totally dependent on a plugin based on something like what
> Joseba is asking?
>
> Peter Bogdanoff
>
> > On Jun 7, 2024, at 12:43 PM, Tom Glod via use-livecode <
> use-livecode@lists.runrev.com> wrote:
> >
> >> Mosquitto library
>
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-- 
On the first day, God created the heavens and the Earth
On the second day, God created the oceans.
On the third day, God put the animals on hold for a few hours,
   and did a little diving.
And God said, "This is good."
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Re: Mosquitto library.

[Peter Bogdanoff via use-livecode]

Related to Mosquitto and the publish/subscribe model: is there any method now 
in LiveCode for my application to receive outside messages without explicitly 
checking to see if anything is available? In other words, is there a way for a 
message from a server to directly enter the message path within LC?

Or is this totally dependent on a plugin based on something like what Joseba is 
asking?

Peter Bogdanoff

> On Jun 7, 2024, at 12:43 PM, Tom Glod via use-livecode 
>  wrote:
> 
>> Mosquitto library

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Re: Mosquitto library.

[Tom Glod via use-livecode]

How are you trying to get it to work with Livecode?

On Thu, Jun 6, 2024 at 11:06 AM JosebaTELUR via use-livecode <
use-livecode@lists.runrev.com> wrote:

> Hello:
>
> I'm trying to get the Mosquitto library to work and can't get it to work.
> Any help from the forum?
> (LiveCode 9.6.9 and Mojave System).
>
> Un saludo.
>
> Joseba.
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Mosquitto library.

[JosebaTELUR via use-livecode]

Hello:

I'm trying to get the Mosquitto library to work and can't get it to work. Any 
help from the forum?
(LiveCode 9.6.9 and Mojave System).

Un saludo.

Joseba.
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Re: Snapshot question

[Craig Newman via use-livecode]

Richard.

Intersting stuff.

When one first drags a roundRect from the toolbar, the PI has a field to enter 
a value for the “roundRadius” property. But after a rotation, where the graphic 
is now defined solely by its “points” property, the ability to get or set that 
property disappears. I suppose this makes sense.

And if one sets the roundRadius property to a value greater than the geometry 
of the graphic will allow, that is, the radius of the corners is greater than 
that which will ‘fit” onto the graphic itself, one gets a circle, though 
defined by points as opposed to the usual startAngle and arcAngle.

Craig

> On Jun 4, 2024, at 2:48 PM, Richard Gaskin via use-livecode 
>  wrote:
> 
> Craig wrote:
>> The docs must be wrong. I just tested with all seven of the graphic
>> options in the tools palette, and they all rotate just fine.
> 
> I'd guess that Dictionary entry was written before July 7, 2007.
> 
> In the revcommonlibrary script you'll find the revRotatePoly command on lines 
> 496 thru 532, with the comment block above it noting the date it was added.
> 
> On line 506 it gets the EFFECTIVE points for any graphic styles that doesn't 
> innately have a points property.
> 
> On line 525 it changes the style of the target graphic object to polygon if 
> needed.
> 
> Those two changes are not present in the older revRotatePolygonOld command 
> listed just below it.
> 
> --
> Richard Gaskin
> FourthWorld.com
> 
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Re: Snapshot question

[Neville Smythe via use-livecode]

> On 5 Jun 2024, at 2:00 am, Craig wrote:
> 
> The docs must be wrong. I just tested with all seven of the graphic options 
> in the tools palette, and they all rotate just fine.



You are absolutely right, a roundedRect graphic does rotate with revPolyRotate. 
Don’t know why I trusted the docs rather than testing for myself (In my 
defence, I have been thinking more about my later issue of rotating scaled 
images).

Moreover when the graphic is selected the rotated boundary is hilighted rather 
than the bounding box boundary as with a rotated image, which is huge 
advantage. The graphic's label is not rotated, which is a small disadvantage - 
or a feature; I can live with it for my application. So I can now delete a 
hundred or more lines of work-around code.

And Hakan, many thanks, this will be very useful. But who knew!? Which is 
rather my point - perhaps scaling of rotated images was prohibited by default 
just because LC thought developers couldn’t deal with the trigonometry?

So much good stuff from Bernd, Craig and Hakan.


Neville Smythe




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Re: Snapshot question

[Richard Gaskin via use-livecode]

Craig wrote:
> The docs must be wrong. I just tested with all seven of the graphic
> options in the tools palette, and they all rotate just fine.

I'd guess that Dictionary entry was written before July 7, 2007.

In the revcommonlibrary script you'll find the revRotatePoly command on lines 
496 thru 532, with the comment block above it noting the date it was added.

On line 506 it gets the EFFECTIVE points for any graphic styles that doesn't 
innately have a points property.

On line 525 it changes the style of the target graphic object to polygon if 
needed.

Those two changes are not present in the older revRotatePolygonOld command 
listed just below it.

--
Richard Gaskin
FourthWorld.com

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Re: Snapshot question

[Craig Newman via use-livecode]

The docs must be wrong. I just tested with all seven of the graphic options in 
the tools palette, and they all rotate just fine.

Craig

> On May 31, 2024, at 9:30 PM, Neville Smythe via use-livecode 
>  wrote:
> 
> Many thanks Craig and Bernd for your suggestions
> 
> Craig: Unfortunately the docs say revRotatePoly only works with lines, curves 
> and polygons
> 
> Bernd: Oh! Yes, exporting as png does work to give transparent corner bits! 
> Obvious now!
> 
> I think I had briefly considered this and rejected it because at the time I 
> was conflating the problem with an issue I am going to have later in my 
> project. The roundrect graphics are going to be used as niches for a 
> collection of images: the images should be scaled and rotated to fit the 
> graphic object (or now its png alter-ego). Now while referenced images such 
> as png’s can be rotated (more precisely, have their angle set) they lose 
> their scaling, reverting to their native size; and rotated images cannot be 
> scaled (why?? Rather a strange restriction. I think the graphical engine for 
> LC is showing its age rather badly). Which somehow led me to think I had to 
> use the bitmap form for snapshots. But if I place and scale the original 
> image, then export that as a png,  the exported image should have the 
> required size and so can then be rotated without changing its size. I hope.
> 
> Neville
> 
> 
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Re: LiveCode on Social Media

[Paul Dupuis via use-livecode]

I followed this one for a little while: https://www.reddit.com/r/livecode/

It was not very active, and, like many Reddit groups, prone to SPAM. 
Reddit, in general, does have a large developer community.


On 6/3/2024 7:22 PM, Richard Gaskin via use-livecode wrote:

For LC support nothing beats this use-list and the LC Forums, but for spreading 
the word about LC and the cool stuff you're making with it nothing beat social 
media.

Two of the largest social media discussion groups for LC are:


LinkedIn: "LiveCode Developers"
Best social media platform for professional interests
https://www.linkedin.com/groups/50811/


Facebook: "LiveCode Users"
One of the biggest platforms for general audiences
https://www.facebook.com/groups/livecodeusers


Is there a third I should include there?

If you use those platforms please consider joining the LC groups. The more 
active discussion that takes place there, the more newcomers may be introduced 
to the language we love.

--
Richard Gaskin
FourthWorld.com

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Re: Snapshot question

[Håkan Liljegren via use-livecode]

LiveCode refuses to scale rotated images if the angle is set and lockloc is 
false but if you set lockloc to true you can scale the rotated image. If you 
just rotate an image with lockloc set (to true) it will always keep the image 
inside the original bounding box which is normally not what you want. But if 
you want to rotate and keep the same scale you need to calculate the new width 
and height of the image based on the scale factor. But if you have the scale 
factor nd the wanted angle we can, with some trigonometry, calculate the new 
width and height and thus create a function:

constant deg2Rad = pi/180

on rotateAndScaleImage pImgID pDeg pScale
   if pScale is empty then put 1 into pScale
   put the loc of pImgID into tLoc
   put the formattedwidth of pImgID * pScale into tWidth
   put the formattedheight of pImgID * pScale into tHeight
   put pDeg * deg2Rad into tRad
   put abs(sin(tRad)) into tSin
   put abs(cos(tRad)) into tCos
   
   put tWidth * tCos + tHeight * tSin into tNewWidth
   put tWidth * tSin + tHeight * tCos into tNewHeight
   
   lock screen
   set the angle of pImgID to pDeg
   set the width of pImgID to tNewWidth
   set the height of pImgID to tNewHeight
   set the loc of pImgID to tLoc
end rotateAndScaleImage

pImgID is the reference to the image, pDeg is the rotation angle in degrees and 
pScale is the scale factor for the image. E.g.
rotateAndScaleImage the long id of image “MyImage”, 22, 0.5

Will rotate image “MyImage” by 22 degrees at half the original size

NOTE! The function above rotates the image around it’s center and to get the 
function to work the lockloc needs to be set to true

Happy coding!

:-Håkan


> 1 juni 2024 kl. 13:18 skrev Niggemann, Bernd via use-livecode 
> :
> 
> Neville wrote
>> Now while referenced images such as png’s can be 
>> rotated (more precisely, have their angle set) they lose their scaling, 
>> reverting to their native size; and rotated images cannot be scaled (why??
> 
> set the resizeQuality of the image to good or best depending on your image 
> (images get a bit fuzzy when rotated)
> 
> you can resize a rotated image if you set the imageData of the rotated image 
> to the imageData of the rotated image
> 
>  set the angle of image 1 to 15
>  set the imageData of image 1 to the imageData of image 1
> 
> As soon as you set the imageData of the image it is not referenced anymore. 
> But it can be resized.
> 
> I do not know your requirements exactly but if you want to set the angle 
> repeatedly then it is best to store the original (non-rotated) text of the 
> image and do your rotation every time from that starting point.
> 
> i.e. 
> store original
> set angle
> restore to origina
> set next angle
> 
> Examples of rotating and resizing of image can be found in this topic of the 
> Forum (old stuff but still working)
> 
> https://forums.livecode.com/viewtopic.php?f=27=8042
> 
> Kind regards
> Bernd
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LiveCode on Social Media

[Richard Gaskin via use-livecode]

For LC support nothing beats this use-list and the LC Forums, but for spreading 
the word about LC and the cool stuff you're making with it nothing beat social 
media.

Two of the largest social media discussion groups for LC are:


LinkedIn: "LiveCode Developers"
Best social media platform for professional interests
https://www.linkedin.com/groups/50811/


Facebook: "LiveCode Users"
One of the biggest platforms for general audiences
https://www.facebook.com/groups/livecodeusers


Is there a third I should include there?

If you use those platforms please consider joining the LC groups. The more 
active discussion that takes place there, the more newcomers may be introduced 
to the language we love.

--
Richard Gaskin
FourthWorld.com

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oAuth in production?

[Tom Glod via use-livecode]

Hi Folks,

Can anyone confirm that LCs oAuth works well in production and cross
platform?

Thanks,

Tom
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Re: Snapshot question

[Niggemann, Bernd via use-livecode]

Neville wrote
Now while referenced images such as png’s can be
rotated (more precisely, have their angle set) they lose their scaling,
reverting to their native size; and rotated images cannot be scaled (why??

set the resizeQuality of the image to good or best depending on your image 
(images get a bit fuzzy when rotated)

you can resize a rotated image if you set the imageData of the rotated image to 
the imageData of the rotated image

 set the angle of image 1 to 15
 set the imageData of image 1 to the imageData of image 1

As soon as you set the imageData of the image it is not referenced anymore. But 
it can be resized.

I do not know your requirements exactly but if you want to set the angle 
repeatedly then it is best to store the original (non-rotated) text of the 
image and do your rotation every time from that starting point.

i.e.
store original
set angle
restore to origina
set next angle

Examples of rotating and resizing of image can be found in this topic of the 
Forum (old stuff but still working)

https://forums.livecode.com/viewtopic.php?f=27=8042

Kind regards
Bernd
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Re: Snapshot question

[Niggemann, Bernd via use-livecode]

Neville wrote
> Now while referenced images such as png’s can be 
> rotated (more precisely, have their angle set) they lose their scaling, 
> reverting to their native size; and rotated images cannot be scaled (why?? 

set the resizeQuality of the image to good or best depending on your image 
(images get a bit fuzzy when rotated)

you can resize a rotated image if you set the imageData of the rotated image to 
the imageData of the rotated image

  set the angle of image 1 to 15
  set the imageData of image 1 to the imageData of image 1

As soon as you set the imageData of the image it is not referenced anymore. But 
it can be resized.

I do not know your requirements exactly but if you want to set the angle 
repeatedly then it is best to store the original (non-rotated) text of the 
image and do your rotation every time from that starting point.

i.e. 
store original
set angle
restore to origina
set next angle

Examples of rotating and resizing of image can be found in this topic of the 
Forum (old stuff but still working)

https://forums.livecode.com/viewtopic.php?f=27=8042

Kind regards
Bernd
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Re: Snapshot question

[Neville Smythe via use-livecode]

Many thanks Craig and Bernd for your suggestions

Craig: Unfortunately the docs say revRotatePoly only works with lines, curves 
and polygons

Bernd: Oh! Yes, exporting as png does work to give transparent corner bits! 
Obvious now!

I think I had briefly considered this and rejected it because at the time I was 
conflating the problem with an issue I am going to have later in my project. 
The roundrect graphics are going to be used as niches for a collection of 
images: the images should be scaled and rotated to fit the graphic object (or 
now its png alter-ego). Now while referenced images such as png’s can be 
rotated (more precisely, have their angle set) they lose their scaling, 
reverting to their native size; and rotated images cannot be scaled (why?? 
Rather a strange restriction. I think the graphical engine for LC is showing 
its age rather badly). Which somehow led me to think I had to use the bitmap 
form for snapshots. But if I place and scale the original image, then export 
that as a png,  the exported image should have the required size and so can 
then be rotated without changing its size. I hope.

Neville


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