Re: How much do we have to pay to get a minimum of efficiency from HTML5
> On Nov 19, 2019, at 12:01 AM, hh via use-livecode > wrote: > > TMHO there are so few license holders in HTML5 that > there is nearly no step forward in that field -- sadly > a downward spiral. Interesting. And I was waiting for it to be production ready before paying money for it. Kee Nethery ___ use-livecode mailing list use-livecode@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
Re: How much do we have to pay to get a minimum of efficiency from HTML5
A few words in defence of the LC HTML5 standalone builder. 1. > Pi wrote: > To answer your subject heading, I did some calculating based on the > current state of HTML5 deployment and my own experience in doing the > fixes single-handed for it. I work it out in the region of £15k. This is of course heavily depending on your skills in both Livecode Script and JavaScript. You shouldn't blame LiveCode if you need a lot of time for simple fixes/workarounds. 2. (As to Alain's bug report relating to the browser widget). Nobody from LC ever claimed, a browser widget would work in a HTML5 standalone. Also: everything (and more) what you can do with a browser widget can you do in the browser, may be using an iFrame for the display. Moreover, the available javascript in the browser is usually more up-to-date than what's integrated in the browser widget. A browser widget is good for exercising the parts that you do later on in the webpage from your standalone using the browser. The "translation" from browser widget to webpage is easy and fast to learn. 3. There *was* progress in HTML5 until midth 2018: = A greatly improved and very simple "Test" procedure. = Implementing multiple stack windows (you can even do "go url"). = Doing networking as much as OS and browser allow. [Sadly there *are* still basic things missing, especially full keyboard support and much better font support.] ___ use-livecode mailing list use-livecode@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
Re: How much do we have to pay to get a minimum of efficiency from HTML5
Hi Alain I truly feel your pain. To answer your subject heading, I did some calculating based on the current state of HTML5 deployment and my own experience in doing the fixes single-handed for it. I work it out in the region of £15k. It’s an effing mess. Go to quality.livecode.co.uk and search the term HTML5 and you get 80 bugs (some not for HTML5 deployment specifically) and you see none marked fixed and nearly all as confirmed. Some are 2+ yrs old. In contrast, here’s the link to the LC for FM forum: https://forums.livecode.com/viewforum.php?f=133 Either there are zero problems with FM deployment or no one is using it. My guess is the later. A search for LiveCode in community.filemaker.com is even more pitiful. But this is where a large amount of resources went over the last year or so. We’re unlikely to know the sales figures but I bet they’re very low so that’s not a big return on their investment. The same can probably be said of HTML5 deployment, hence the lack of support. Your bug mentioned (https://quality.livecode.com/show_bug.cgi?id=22028) is a very odd one as it is suggesting having the browser widget work within a HTML5 deployment standalone. That’s a very tricky one to accomplish at all and a bit of a rabbits hole (not to mention the potential security risk it opens up). I would be inclined to accomplishing what you have in your demo stack outside of any browser widget to avoid unnecessary complications. If you really are serious about HTML5 deployment I’d happily set up a crowd funder for fixing it but I doubt I’d get anywhere close to the 15k to cover it. Probably not even 1k even! I’d even happily move to Scotland and join the LC team dedicated to it if they called for it (which is a billion times more unlikely). My current project using HTML5 deployment has gone live now for my clients customers but is 82% workarounds currently. And as I am getting paid for that, that is where the majority of my concentration lies. I still have many more stages of deployment to go for them too. If you have more specific HTML5 questions you need help with post them here with a [html5] in the subject heading and we’ll keep an watch for them. No doubt one of us here can help. Sean Cole Pi Digital Prod Ltd > On 18 Nov 2019, at 22:55, Alain Vezina via use-livecode > wrote: > > I gave up regular LC to get interested in HTML5 from LiveCode a year > ago. I reported a bug on the Browser widget in April 2019 and the problem > has still not been fixed. ... I think that at that price, I could get a lot > more from LiveCode. ___ use-livecode mailing list use-livecode@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
Re: How much do we have to pay to get a minimum of efficiency from HTML5
LiveCode cannot do anything for you with that. The security dictator is 1. the OS 2. the browser you use for the standalone. There are a lot of differences alone by variations of these two. Yes, read and write from files is doable, but with the restrictions given by OS security and Browser security, what means: User interaction and/or same origin policy. For example you can read without any problems from the standalone's server location. With the help of a bit javascript you can read from any local file using a dialog, but you can write to nowhere but the user's downloads folder. I have shown that already long ago with some of my HTML5 examples (available incl. source code). TMHO there are so few license holders in HTML5 that there is nearly no step forward in that field -- sadly a downward spiral. Sadly, because there are already a *lot* of features implemented -- if you are able to handle that under the user's OS and browser. ___ use-livecode mailing list use-livecode@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
Re: How much do we have to pay to get a minimum of efficiency from HTML5
Yeah.. I hear you. On Mon, Nov 18, 2019 at 5:56 PM Alain Vezina via use-livecode < use-livecode@lists.runrev.com> wrote: > I gave up regular LC to get interested in HTML5 from LiveCode a year ago. > My intention was to transform my apps to get me out of Apple's tyranny. I > was first enchanted by this product, but I quickly became disillusioned > when I realized that basic commands and functions in LC like read from file > or write to file do not work in HTML5. I reported a bug on the Browser > widget in April 2019 and the problem has still not been fixed. For me, it > is a tool that is fundamental in many of my applications. > > Last week, I was informed that my subscription would end on November 22 of > this year. To renew it, I have to pay $790.60 Canadian. > > After some hesitation, I decided to pay, but this is the last year I do it > if HTML5 is still so limited. I think that at that price, I could get a lot > more from LiveCode. > > Translated with www.DeepL.com/Translator > ___ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode@lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > -- Tom Glod Founder & Developer MakeShyft R.D.A (www.makeshyft.com) Office:226-706-9339 Mobile:226-706-9793 ___ use-livecode mailing list use-livecode@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
Re: How much do we have to pay to get a minimum of efficiency from HTML5
Alain Vezina wrote: > I gave up regular LC to get interested in HTML5 from LiveCode a year > ago. My intention was to transform my apps to get me out of Apple's > tyranny. I was first enchanted by this product, but I quickly became > disillusioned when I realized that basic commands and functions in LC > like read from file or write to file do not work in HTML5. Desktop apps and web apps are inherently very different. For example, while it's common for desktop apps to read and write files across the user's hard drive, browsers don't allow that. If they did, every site you go to - and sites that have maliciously inserted their code into sites you go to - could rummage through your hard drive, taking what they want and altering things along the way. On the desktop, Apple does not require that you surrender 30% of your income to them in order to have your apps installable. You can still distribute via downloads from your own site, as we've been doing since the '90s. > I reported a bug on the Browser widget in April 2019 and the problem > has still not been fixed. For me, it is a tool that is fundamental in > many of my applications. I'm not following this now. The first part of your email discusses stack files exported from LC as HTML to run in a browser, and this part seems to be discussing the widget, which embeds a browser application inside of a LiveCode standalone. What are you building? -- Richard Gaskin Fourth World Systems Software Design and Development for the Desktop, Mobile, and the Web ambassa...@fourthworld.comhttp://www.FourthWorld.com ___ use-livecode mailing list use-livecode@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
How much do we have to pay to get a minimum of efficiency from HTML5
I gave up regular LC to get interested in HTML5 from LiveCode a year ago. My intention was to transform my apps to get me out of Apple's tyranny. I was first enchanted by this product, but I quickly became disillusioned when I realized that basic commands and functions in LC like read from file or write to file do not work in HTML5. I reported a bug on the Browser widget in April 2019 and the problem has still not been fixed. For me, it is a tool that is fundamental in many of my applications. Last week, I was informed that my subscription would end on November 22 of this year. To renew it, I have to pay $790.60 Canadian. After some hesitation, I decided to pay, but this is the last year I do it if HTML5 is still so limited. I think that at that price, I could get a lot more from LiveCode. Translated with www.DeepL.com/Translator ___ use-livecode mailing list use-livecode@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
