Re: LC & Mac M1 Chip

[JeeJeeStudio via use-livecode]

Nice find Richmond

Op 15-1-2021 om 12:01 schreef Richmond via use-livecode:
https://www.mediastorehouse.co.uk/pimage/164/4418216/4418216_450_450_81393_0_fill_0_e37e7951f24a5587cf10b5e3ccda4347.jpg 



On 14.01.21 23:29, JeeJeeStudio via use-livecode wrote:

this cheesehead is here since 2014 😁

Op 14-1-2021 om 03:45 schreef Bob Sneidar via use-livecode:
You are new here, so I will just say that among the forbidden topics 
on this list, sex, politics, religion (pretty much everything that 
really matters in this world) is the subject of cheese. Consider 
yourself notified. ;-)


Bob S


On Jan 13, 2021, at 1:15 PM, JeeJeeStudio via use-livecode 
mailto:use-livecode@lists.runrev.com>> 
wrote:


Stay off the fake Gouda cheese, maybe it's Chinese origin.
Only take the original Dutch Gouda, which is protected by the way, 
although

in China they don't mind that.

Op zo 10 jan. 2021 om 23:36 schreef Curry Kenworthy via use-livecode <
use-livecode@lists.runrev.com>:


JeeJeeStudio:

One could ask him/her-self the question if it is still ethical to
buy a reall Mac? Seeing the child-labor in their factories in China
is still present.

I'm glad you went there! Thank you. I do ask myself, and the answer is
clear. Whether it's a Mac, or any other product. Same deal.

Not to mention forced organ harvesting (often while conscious), 
torture,
gulags, repression (now becoming fashionable), ethnic/racial 
crackdowns,

thought/political/religious crackdowns, IP theft, debt traps,
poison/health risks, safety flaws, hacking and theft, credible plan for
world domination, worker hazards and living/working conditions, and the
list could go on for many pages.

I'm typing this on a PC laptop, with a fan blowing on my face, at a
desk, sitting on a wheelchair, under a light bulb, all of which 
probably

have the same origin. Consumer choices are limited, but it does bother
me. There's a real need for products produced in a context where human
rights are respected.

(I consider that human decency, not politics. And for the record, I'm
completely off cheese at the moment; developed allergic reaction to 
it.)


Best wishes,

Curry Kenworthy

Custom Software Development

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Re: LC & Mac M1 Chip

[Richmond via use-livecode]

https://www.mediastorehouse.co.uk/pimage/164/4418216/4418216_450_450_81393_0_fill_0_e37e7951f24a5587cf10b5e3ccda4347.jpg

On 14.01.21 23:29, JeeJeeStudio via use-livecode wrote:

this cheesehead is here since 2014 😁

Op 14-1-2021 om 03:45 schreef Bob Sneidar via use-livecode:
You are new here, so I will just say that among the forbidden topics 
on this list, sex, politics, religion (pretty much everything that 
really matters in this world) is the subject of cheese. Consider 
yourself notified. ;-)


Bob S


On Jan 13, 2021, at 1:15 PM, JeeJeeStudio via use-livecode 
mailto:use-livecode@lists.runrev.com>> 
wrote:


Stay off the fake Gouda cheese, maybe it's Chinese origin.
Only take the original Dutch Gouda, which is protected by the way, 
although

in China they don't mind that.

Op zo 10 jan. 2021 om 23:36 schreef Curry Kenworthy via use-livecode <
use-livecode@lists.runrev.com>:


JeeJeeStudio:

One could ask him/her-self the question if it is still ethical to
buy a reall Mac? Seeing the child-labor in their factories in China
is still present.

I'm glad you went there! Thank you. I do ask myself, and the answer is
clear. Whether it's a Mac, or any other product. Same deal.

Not to mention forced organ harvesting (often while conscious), torture,
gulags, repression (now becoming fashionable), ethnic/racial crackdowns,
thought/political/religious crackdowns, IP theft, debt traps,
poison/health risks, safety flaws, hacking and theft, credible plan for
world domination, worker hazards and living/working conditions, and the
list could go on for many pages.

I'm typing this on a PC laptop, with a fan blowing on my face, at a
desk, sitting on a wheelchair, under a light bulb, all of which probably
have the same origin. Consumer choices are limited, but it does bother
me. There's a real need for products produced in a context where human
rights are respected.

(I consider that human decency, not politics. And for the record, I'm
completely off cheese at the moment; developed allergic reaction to it.)

Best wishes,

Curry Kenworthy

Custom Software Development

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Re: LC & Mac M1 Chip

[Mark Wieder via use-livecode]

On 1/14/21 1:37 AM, Heather Laine via use-livecode wrote:

Did somebody say cheese??


Uh oh. Busted.

--
 Mark Wieder
 ahsoftw...@gmail.com

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Re: LC & Mac M1 Chip

[JeeJeeStudio via use-livecode]

this cheesehead is here since 2014 😁

Op 14-1-2021 om 03:45 schreef Bob Sneidar via use-livecode:

You are new here, so I will just say that among the forbidden topics on this 
list, sex, politics, religion (pretty much everything that really matters in 
this world) is the subject of cheese. Consider yourself notified. ;-)

Bob S


On Jan 13, 2021, at 1:15 PM, JeeJeeStudio via use-livecode 
mailto:use-livecode@lists.runrev.com>> wrote:

Stay off the fake Gouda cheese, maybe it's Chinese origin.
Only take the original Dutch Gouda, which is protected by the way, although
in China they don't mind that.

Op zo 10 jan. 2021 om 23:36 schreef Curry Kenworthy via use-livecode <
use-livecode@lists.runrev.com>:


JeeJeeStudio:

One could ask him/her-self the question if it is still ethical to
buy a reall Mac? Seeing the child-labor in their factories in China
is still present.

I'm glad you went there! Thank you. I do ask myself, and the answer is
clear. Whether it's a Mac, or any other product. Same deal.

Not to mention forced organ harvesting (often while conscious), torture,
gulags, repression (now becoming fashionable), ethnic/racial crackdowns,
thought/political/religious crackdowns, IP theft, debt traps,
poison/health risks, safety flaws, hacking and theft, credible plan for
world domination, worker hazards and living/working conditions, and the
list could go on for many pages.

I'm typing this on a PC laptop, with a fan blowing on my face, at a
desk, sitting on a wheelchair, under a light bulb, all of which probably
have the same origin. Consumer choices are limited, but it does bother
me. There's a real need for products produced in a context where human
rights are respected.

(I consider that human decency, not politics. And for the record, I'm
completely off cheese at the moment; developed allergic reaction to it.)

Best wishes,

Curry Kenworthy

Custom Software Development

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Re: LC & Mac M1 Chip

[Richmond via use-livecode]

Hmm: Down our way (Bulgaria), we can buy 'Gouda' that is made in Germany,
so that protection (considering Bulgaria is in the EU) looks a bit dicky.

On 13.01.21 23:15, JeeJeeStudio via use-livecode wrote:

Stay off the fake Gouda cheese, maybe it's Chinese origin.
Only take the original Dutch Gouda, which is protected by the way, although
in China they don't mind that.

Op zo 10 jan. 2021 om 23:36 schreef Curry Kenworthy via use-livecode <
use-livecode@lists.runrev.com>:


JeeJeeStudio:

  > One could ask him/her-self the question if it is still ethical to
  > buy a reall Mac? Seeing the child-labor in their factories in China
  > is still present.

I'm glad you went there! Thank you. I do ask myself, and the answer is
clear. Whether it's a Mac, or any other product. Same deal.

Not to mention forced organ harvesting (often while conscious), torture,
gulags, repression (now becoming fashionable), ethnic/racial crackdowns,
thought/political/religious crackdowns, IP theft, debt traps,
poison/health risks, safety flaws, hacking and theft, credible plan for
world domination, worker hazards and living/working conditions, and the
list could go on for many pages.

I'm typing this on a PC laptop, with a fan blowing on my face, at a
desk, sitting on a wheelchair, under a light bulb, all of which probably
have the same origin. Consumer choices are limited, but it does bother
me. There's a real need for products produced in a context where human
rights are respected.

(I consider that human decency, not politics. And for the record, I'm
completely off cheese at the moment; developed allergic reaction to it.)

Best wishes,

Curry Kenworthy

Custom Software Development
"Better Methods, Better Results"
LiveCode Training and Consulting
http://livecodeconsulting.com/

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Re: LC & Mac M1 Chip

[Heather Laine via use-livecode]

Did somebody say cheese??


Heather Laine
Customer Services Manager
LiveCode Ltd
www.livecode.com



> On 14 Jan 2021, at 02:45, Bob Sneidar via use-livecode 
>  wrote:
> 
> You are new here, so I will just say that among the forbidden topics on this 
> list, sex, politics, religion (pretty much everything that really matters in 
> this world) is the subject of cheese. Consider yourself notified. ;-)
> 
> Bob S
> 
> 
> On Jan 13, 2021, at 1:15 PM, JeeJeeStudio via use-livecode 
> mailto:use-livecode@lists.runrev.com>> wrote:
> 
> Stay off the fake Gouda cheese, maybe it's Chinese origin.
> Only take the original Dutch Gouda, which is protected by the way, although
> in China they don't mind that.
> 
> Op zo 10 jan. 2021 om 23:36 schreef Curry Kenworthy via use-livecode <
> use-livecode@lists.runrev.com>:
> 
> 
> JeeJeeStudio:
> 
> One could ask him/her-self the question if it is still ethical to
> buy a reall Mac? Seeing the child-labor in their factories in China
> is still present.
> 
> I'm glad you went there! Thank you. I do ask myself, and the answer is
> clear. Whether it's a Mac, or any other product. Same deal.
> 
> Not to mention forced organ harvesting (often while conscious), torture,
> gulags, repression (now becoming fashionable), ethnic/racial crackdowns,
> thought/political/religious crackdowns, IP theft, debt traps,
> poison/health risks, safety flaws, hacking and theft, credible plan for
> world domination, worker hazards and living/working conditions, and the
> list could go on for many pages.
> 
> I'm typing this on a PC laptop, with a fan blowing on my face, at a
> desk, sitting on a wheelchair, under a light bulb, all of which probably
> have the same origin. Consumer choices are limited, but it does bother
> me. There's a real need for products produced in a context where human
> rights are respected.
> 
> (I consider that human decency, not politics. And for the record, I'm
> completely off cheese at the moment; developed allergic reaction to it.)
> 
> Best wishes,
> 
> Curry Kenworthy
> 
> Custom Software Development
> 
> ___
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode@lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription 
> preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode


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Re: LC & Mac M1 Chip

[Bob Sneidar via use-livecode]

You are new here, so I will just say that among the forbidden topics on this 
list, sex, politics, religion (pretty much everything that really matters in 
this world) is the subject of cheese. Consider yourself notified. ;-)

Bob S


On Jan 13, 2021, at 1:15 PM, JeeJeeStudio via use-livecode 
mailto:use-livecode@lists.runrev.com>> wrote:

Stay off the fake Gouda cheese, maybe it's Chinese origin.
Only take the original Dutch Gouda, which is protected by the way, although
in China they don't mind that.

Op zo 10 jan. 2021 om 23:36 schreef Curry Kenworthy via use-livecode <
use-livecode@lists.runrev.com>:


JeeJeeStudio:

One could ask him/her-self the question if it is still ethical to
buy a reall Mac? Seeing the child-labor in their factories in China
is still present.

I'm glad you went there! Thank you. I do ask myself, and the answer is
clear. Whether it's a Mac, or any other product. Same deal.

Not to mention forced organ harvesting (often while conscious), torture,
gulags, repression (now becoming fashionable), ethnic/racial crackdowns,
thought/political/religious crackdowns, IP theft, debt traps,
poison/health risks, safety flaws, hacking and theft, credible plan for
world domination, worker hazards and living/working conditions, and the
list could go on for many pages.

I'm typing this on a PC laptop, with a fan blowing on my face, at a
desk, sitting on a wheelchair, under a light bulb, all of which probably
have the same origin. Consumer choices are limited, but it does bother
me. There's a real need for products produced in a context where human
rights are respected.

(I consider that human decency, not politics. And for the record, I'm
completely off cheese at the moment; developed allergic reaction to it.)

Best wishes,

Curry Kenworthy

Custom Software Development

___
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Re: LC & Mac M1 Chip

[JeeJeeStudio via use-livecode]

Stay off the fake Gouda cheese, maybe it's Chinese origin.
Only take the original Dutch Gouda, which is protected by the way, although
in China they don't mind that.

Op zo 10 jan. 2021 om 23:36 schreef Curry Kenworthy via use-livecode <
use-livecode@lists.runrev.com>:

>
> JeeJeeStudio:
>
>  > One could ask him/her-self the question if it is still ethical to
>  > buy a reall Mac? Seeing the child-labor in their factories in China
>  > is still present.
>
> I'm glad you went there! Thank you. I do ask myself, and the answer is
> clear. Whether it's a Mac, or any other product. Same deal.
>
> Not to mention forced organ harvesting (often while conscious), torture,
> gulags, repression (now becoming fashionable), ethnic/racial crackdowns,
> thought/political/religious crackdowns, IP theft, debt traps,
> poison/health risks, safety flaws, hacking and theft, credible plan for
> world domination, worker hazards and living/working conditions, and the
> list could go on for many pages.
>
> I'm typing this on a PC laptop, with a fan blowing on my face, at a
> desk, sitting on a wheelchair, under a light bulb, all of which probably
> have the same origin. Consumer choices are limited, but it does bother
> me. There's a real need for products produced in a context where human
> rights are respected.
>
> (I consider that human decency, not politics. And for the record, I'm
> completely off cheese at the moment; developed allergic reaction to it.)
>
> Best wishes,
>
> Curry Kenworthy
>
> Custom Software Development
> "Better Methods, Better Results"
> LiveCode Training and Consulting
> http://livecodeconsulting.com/
>
> ___
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode@lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your
> subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
>
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Re: LC & Mac M1 Chip

[Bob Sneidar via use-livecode]

Fuzzy logic makes my brain itch. 

Bob S


> On Jan 9, 2021, at 9:36 PM, Rick Harrison via use-livecode 
>  wrote:
> 
> Otherwise code uses fuzzy logic!  LOL
> 
> Rick
> 
>> On Jan 9, 2021, at 5:34 PM, Curry Kenworthy via use-livecode 
>>  wrote:
>> 
>> Otherwise code would be unpredictable.
> 
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Re: LC & Mac M1 Chip

[Curry Kenworthy via use-livecode]

JeeJeeStudio:

> One could ask him/her-self the question if it is still ethical to
> buy a reall Mac? Seeing the child-labor in their factories in China
> is still present.

I'm glad you went there! Thank you. I do ask myself, and the answer is 
clear. Whether it's a Mac, or any other product. Same deal.


Not to mention forced organ harvesting (often while conscious), torture, 
gulags, repression (now becoming fashionable), ethnic/racial crackdowns, 
thought/political/religious crackdowns, IP theft, debt traps, 
poison/health risks, safety flaws, hacking and theft, credible plan for 
world domination, worker hazards and living/working conditions, and the 
list could go on for many pages.


I'm typing this on a PC laptop, with a fan blowing on my face, at a 
desk, sitting on a wheelchair, under a light bulb, all of which probably 
have the same origin. Consumer choices are limited, but it does bother 
me. There's a real need for products produced in a context where human 
rights are respected.


(I consider that human decency, not politics. And for the record, I'm 
completely off cheese at the moment; developed allergic reaction to it.)


Best wishes,

Curry Kenworthy

Custom Software Development
"Better Methods, Better Results"
LiveCode Training and Consulting
http://livecodeconsulting.com/

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Re: LC & Mac M1 Chip

[JeeJeeStudio via use-livecode]

One could ask him/her-self the question if it is still ethical to buy a 
reall Mac? Seeing the child-labor in their factories in China is still 
present. Seems nothing good enough is yet done to prevent that.



Op 9-1-2021 om 23:34 schreef Curry Kenworthy via use-livecode:


Me:

> I'm planning to get an M1 Mac this year

Naturally, right after I post this, Apple makes headlines (again) for 
doing something arbitrary and rather dim.


So an ethical and professional disclaimer:

I don't support self-contradictory and illogical policy,
any more than self-contradictory and illogical UI.

Shallow thinkers (and toddlers of all ages) focus mainly on external 
agreement. It requires some mental development to realize a need for 
intellectual consistency and indeed honesty.


I like the way this principle is clear in the realm of coding. If true 
is also false, logic falls apart. Every logical branch in a script 
evaluates to true or false. True and false must be reliable, not 
arbitrary and capricious. Otherwise code would be unpredictable.


(That's why people who rationalize have trouble writing good code: 
they are speaking a second language, and have trained themselves to 
imitate logic rather than following it! Mental habits matter.)


Apple's biz practices make it difficult to avoid finally replacing my 
2012 Mac, but as most people here probably know, I did not intend my 
statement as an endorsement. Glad Richmond can still work on the G5! :)


Best wishes,

Curry Kenworthy

Custom Software Development
"Better Methods, Better Results"
LiveCode Training and Consulting
http://livecodeconsulting.com/

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Re: LC & Mac M1 Chip

[Richmond via use-livecode]

Hmm: Yes, I do work occasionally on a couple of G5 iMac I have lying 
around, and, more often, a G4 Mac Mini
(a lovely machine I can shove in my bag and run back and forth between 
home and work): BUT, to tell the  truth,
at the moment my main work is spread between a 2018 Mac Mini (the last 
INTEL model) running macOS 11.2 and an ASUS

laptop running Xubuntu 20.10.

Apple, like Microsoft, is a profoundly undemocratic institution. This 
should not matter if the 'great dictator' is
truly 'great' (and even the sainted Steve Jobs has feet of clay); but 
those types of dictators only crop up in places

like Plato's Laws and fairy stories.

When I read Plato's Laws I got an ENTIRELY different picture from all 
those 'leisurely chats' between Socrates

and his chums.

A company with no checks and balances, and that doesn't listen to its 
customers, is going to have more than the

odd wonky moment.

Currently the 'great dictator' of my company (me) is listening to the 
Bulgarian Ministry of Education, the parents
of children who attend my language school, 3 trustworthy doctors, my 
assistant, and so on: as not sure when
to stop delivering online classes and restart in the physical school, or 
whether to provide a 'mixed service' with
both online and 'offline' classes (also known as logistical hell). 
Obviously if I don't listen AND act on what I hear

in a way that keeps the majority happy, I'm shafted.

All I can say, with a smile on my lips, is "Thank God" I only have 50 
kids to worry about.


Richmond.

On 10.01.21 0:34, Curry Kenworthy via use-livecode wrote:


Me:

> I'm planning to get an M1 Mac this year

Naturally, right after I post this, Apple makes headlines (again) for 
doing something arbitrary and rather dim.


So an ethical and professional disclaimer:

I don't support self-contradictory and illogical policy,
any more than self-contradictory and illogical UI.

Shallow thinkers (and toddlers of all ages) focus mainly on external 
agreement. It requires some mental development to realize a need for 
intellectual consistency and indeed honesty.


I like the way this principle is clear in the realm of coding. If true 
is also false, logic falls apart. Every logical branch in a script 
evaluates to true or false. True and false must be reliable, not 
arbitrary and capricious. Otherwise code would be unpredictable.


(That's why people who rationalize have trouble writing good code: 
they are speaking a second language, and have trained themselves to 
imitate logic rather than following it! Mental habits matter.)


Apple's biz practices make it difficult to avoid finally replacing my 
2012 Mac, but as most people here probably know, I did not intend my 
statement as an endorsement. Glad Richmond can still work on the G5! :)


Best wishes,

Curry Kenworthy

Custom Software Development
"Better Methods, Better Results"
LiveCode Training and Consulting
http://livecodeconsulting.com/

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Re: LC & Mac M1 Chip

[Rick Harrison via use-livecode]

Otherwise code uses fuzzy logic!  LOL

Rick

> On Jan 9, 2021, at 5:34 PM, Curry Kenworthy via use-livecode 
>  wrote:
> 
> Otherwise code would be unpredictable.

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Re: LC & Mac M1 Chip

[Curry Kenworthy via use-livecode]

Me:

> I'm planning to get an M1 Mac this year

Naturally, right after I post this, Apple makes headlines (again) for 
doing something arbitrary and rather dim.


So an ethical and professional disclaimer:

I don't support self-contradictory and illogical policy,
any more than self-contradictory and illogical UI.

Shallow thinkers (and toddlers of all ages) focus mainly on external 
agreement. It requires some mental development to realize a need for 
intellectual consistency and indeed honesty.


I like the way this principle is clear in the realm of coding. If true 
is also false, logic falls apart. Every logical branch in a script 
evaluates to true or false. True and false must be reliable, not 
arbitrary and capricious. Otherwise code would be unpredictable.


(That's why people who rationalize have trouble writing good code: they 
are speaking a second language, and have trained themselves to imitate 
logic rather than following it! Mental habits matter.)


Apple's biz practices make it difficult to avoid finally replacing my 
2012 Mac, but as most people here probably know, I did not intend my 
statement as an endorsement. Glad Richmond can still work on the G5! :)


Best wishes,

Curry Kenworthy

Custom Software Development
"Better Methods, Better Results"
LiveCode Training and Consulting
http://livecodeconsulting.com/

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Re: LC & Mac M1 Chip

[Richmond via use-livecode]

Your back stories made me fire up a G5 iMac I have here running macOS 10.5
and download the latest LiveCode to work on it . . . .

Love and lunacy, Richmond.

On 8.01.21 1:06, Curry Kenworthy via use-livecode wrote:


Paul:

> we have several customer who have said
> they are upgrading to M1 laptops

Yes; important to support! I'm looking in that direction too. It'll be 
popular, plus it's what I can afford. Many people in the same boat.


(Backstory: Apple's biz model forces Apple to force us to spend on 
hardware. The mobile herd sticks with Apple, so the dev herd does too, 
so wallets must open and notes must rain down. But not satisfied yet 
with the rain from software tweaks, so now hardware tweaks too.)


I'm planning to get an M1 Mac this year, to get back on the bleeding 
edge for a while. It's time. My old Mac hardware is still perfectly 
good, it was well-built and has zero issues, but finally has been 
pushed into what will soon be an untenable corner by the combo of new 
OS to support and new chip to support. But the older Mac will continue 
to serve for testing and for transition dev if needed.


> a sense of when LC 9.6.2 STABLE may be out?

Could be roughly predicted, maybe, by looking at what they are working 
on. I actually agree with LC's anti release date policy; announcing 
firm dates is just begging for another issue to pop up. But since 
Apple's biz model places so much pressure on devs to keep up, a sense 
would be good. Especially since third-party addons and widgets also 
have to keep up with our ecosystem.


(Another backstory: Don't forget the stable/stable linguistic play; 
I've seen RCs here that were actually more "stable" than the final, 
because glitches, regressions, and extra bugs are sometimes - perhaps 
often - introduced in the very process of fixing bugs. Depending on a 
stable to be stable is a gamble, and depending on the specific 
features in an app, there are times when the RC is more reliable. 
Nevertheless I really hate to publish anything with an RC; only when 
forced to do so.)


BTW, Paul knows all of this very well. I'm just replying publicly in 
case the backstories will benefit other readers here in the process. :)


Best wishes,

Curry Kenworthy

Custom Software Development
"Better Methods, Better Results"
LiveCode Training and Consulting
http://livecodeconsulting.com/

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Re: LC & Mac M1 Chip

[Paul Dupuis via use-livecode]

Andre and Panos,

Thank you both. That given us some confidence we can release under LC 
9.6.2rc1 so that customers can go ahead with their M! Big Sur systems as 
they want to.




On 1/8/2021 6:46 AM, Andre Garzia via use-livecode wrote:

Hi Panos,

Just updated https://quality.livecode.com/show_bug.cgi?id=22955 with a
screenshot from 9.6.2-rc-1 running on my M1 machine.

I can't reproduce the bug, I guess it is fixed.

On Fri, 8 Jan 2021 at 10:35, panagiotis merakos via use-livecode <
use-livecode@lists.runrev.com> wrote:


Hello all,

Just a clarification - the bug about dashes in menus in standalones on Big
Sur is:

https://quality.livecode.com/show_bug.cgi?id=23009

and not https://quality.livecode.com/show_bug.cgi?id=23013

BTW, could someone that has a M1 Mac confirm that in the LC 9.6.2 RC-1 IDE
there are no dashes in front of the menus - in other words that this bug is
fixed:
https://quality.livecode.com/show_bug.cgi?id=22955

Thank you!

Kind regards,
Panos
--

On Fri, 8 Jan 2021 at 01:07, Curry Kenworthy via use-livecode <
use-livecode@lists.runrev.com> wrote:


Paul:

  > we have several customer who have said
  > they are upgrading to M1 laptops

Yes; important to support! I'm looking in that direction too. It'll be
popular, plus it's what I can afford. Many people in the same boat.

(Backstory: Apple's biz model forces Apple to force us to spend on
hardware. The mobile herd sticks with Apple, so the dev herd does too,
so wallets must open and notes must rain down. But not satisfied yet
with the rain from software tweaks, so now hardware tweaks too.)

I'm planning to get an M1 Mac this year, to get back on the bleeding
edge for a while. It's time. My old Mac hardware is still perfectly
good, it was well-built and has zero issues, but finally has been pushed
into what will soon be an untenable corner by the combo of new OS to
support and new chip to support. But the older Mac will continue to
serve for testing and for transition dev if needed.

  > a sense of when LC 9.6.2 STABLE may be out?

Could be roughly predicted, maybe, by looking at what they are working
on. I actually agree with LC's anti release date policy; announcing firm
dates is just begging for another issue to pop up. But since Apple's biz
model places so much pressure on devs to keep up, a sense would be good.
Especially since third-party addons and widgets also have to keep up
with our ecosystem.

(Another backstory: Don't forget the stable/stable linguistic play; I've
seen RCs here that were actually more "stable" than the final, because
glitches, regressions, and extra bugs are sometimes - perhaps often -
introduced in the very process of fixing bugs. Depending on a stable to
be stable is a gamble, and depending on the specific features in an app,
there are times when the RC is more reliable. Nevertheless I really hate
to publish anything with an RC; only when forced to do so.)

BTW, Paul knows all of this very well. I'm just replying publicly in
case the backstories will benefit other readers here in the process. :)

Best wishes,

Curry Kenworthy

Custom Software Development
"Better Methods, Better Results"
LiveCode Training and Consulting
http://livecodeconsulting.com/

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Re: LC & Mac M1 Chip

[Andre Garzia via use-livecode]

Hi Panos,

Just updated https://quality.livecode.com/show_bug.cgi?id=22955 with a
screenshot from 9.6.2-rc-1 running on my M1 machine.

I can't reproduce the bug, I guess it is fixed.

On Fri, 8 Jan 2021 at 10:35, panagiotis merakos via use-livecode <
use-livecode@lists.runrev.com> wrote:

> Hello all,
>
> Just a clarification - the bug about dashes in menus in standalones on Big
> Sur is:
>
> https://quality.livecode.com/show_bug.cgi?id=23009
>
> and not https://quality.livecode.com/show_bug.cgi?id=23013
>
> BTW, could someone that has a M1 Mac confirm that in the LC 9.6.2 RC-1 IDE
> there are no dashes in front of the menus - in other words that this bug is
> fixed:
> https://quality.livecode.com/show_bug.cgi?id=22955
>
> Thank you!
>
> Kind regards,
> Panos
> --
>
> On Fri, 8 Jan 2021 at 01:07, Curry Kenworthy via use-livecode <
> use-livecode@lists.runrev.com> wrote:
>
> >
> > Paul:
> >
> >  > we have several customer who have said
> >  > they are upgrading to M1 laptops
> >
> > Yes; important to support! I'm looking in that direction too. It'll be
> > popular, plus it's what I can afford. Many people in the same boat.
> >
> > (Backstory: Apple's biz model forces Apple to force us to spend on
> > hardware. The mobile herd sticks with Apple, so the dev herd does too,
> > so wallets must open and notes must rain down. But not satisfied yet
> > with the rain from software tweaks, so now hardware tweaks too.)
> >
> > I'm planning to get an M1 Mac this year, to get back on the bleeding
> > edge for a while. It's time. My old Mac hardware is still perfectly
> > good, it was well-built and has zero issues, but finally has been pushed
> > into what will soon be an untenable corner by the combo of new OS to
> > support and new chip to support. But the older Mac will continue to
> > serve for testing and for transition dev if needed.
> >
> >  > a sense of when LC 9.6.2 STABLE may be out?
> >
> > Could be roughly predicted, maybe, by looking at what they are working
> > on. I actually agree with LC's anti release date policy; announcing firm
> > dates is just begging for another issue to pop up. But since Apple's biz
> > model places so much pressure on devs to keep up, a sense would be good.
> > Especially since third-party addons and widgets also have to keep up
> > with our ecosystem.
> >
> > (Another backstory: Don't forget the stable/stable linguistic play; I've
> > seen RCs here that were actually more "stable" than the final, because
> > glitches, regressions, and extra bugs are sometimes - perhaps often -
> > introduced in the very process of fixing bugs. Depending on a stable to
> > be stable is a gamble, and depending on the specific features in an app,
> > there are times when the RC is more reliable. Nevertheless I really hate
> > to publish anything with an RC; only when forced to do so.)
> >
> > BTW, Paul knows all of this very well. I'm just replying publicly in
> > case the backstories will benefit other readers here in the process. :)
> >
> > Best wishes,
> >
> > Curry Kenworthy
> >
> > Custom Software Development
> > "Better Methods, Better Results"
> > LiveCode Training and Consulting
> > http://livecodeconsulting.com/
> >
> > ___
> > use-livecode mailing list
> > use-livecode@lists.runrev.com
> > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your
> > subscription preferences:
> > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
> >
> ___
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> subscription preferences:
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-- 
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Want to support me? Buy me a coffee at https://ko-fi.com/andregarzia
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Re: LC & Mac M1 Chip

[panagiotis merakos via use-livecode]

Hello all,

Just a clarification - the bug about dashes in menus in standalones on Big
Sur is:

https://quality.livecode.com/show_bug.cgi?id=23009

and not https://quality.livecode.com/show_bug.cgi?id=23013

BTW, could someone that has a M1 Mac confirm that in the LC 9.6.2 RC-1 IDE
there are no dashes in front of the menus - in other words that this bug is
fixed:
https://quality.livecode.com/show_bug.cgi?id=22955

Thank you!

Kind regards,
Panos
--

On Fri, 8 Jan 2021 at 01:07, Curry Kenworthy via use-livecode <
use-livecode@lists.runrev.com> wrote:

>
> Paul:
>
>  > we have several customer who have said
>  > they are upgrading to M1 laptops
>
> Yes; important to support! I'm looking in that direction too. It'll be
> popular, plus it's what I can afford. Many people in the same boat.
>
> (Backstory: Apple's biz model forces Apple to force us to spend on
> hardware. The mobile herd sticks with Apple, so the dev herd does too,
> so wallets must open and notes must rain down. But not satisfied yet
> with the rain from software tweaks, so now hardware tweaks too.)
>
> I'm planning to get an M1 Mac this year, to get back on the bleeding
> edge for a while. It's time. My old Mac hardware is still perfectly
> good, it was well-built and has zero issues, but finally has been pushed
> into what will soon be an untenable corner by the combo of new OS to
> support and new chip to support. But the older Mac will continue to
> serve for testing and for transition dev if needed.
>
>  > a sense of when LC 9.6.2 STABLE may be out?
>
> Could be roughly predicted, maybe, by looking at what they are working
> on. I actually agree with LC's anti release date policy; announcing firm
> dates is just begging for another issue to pop up. But since Apple's biz
> model places so much pressure on devs to keep up, a sense would be good.
> Especially since third-party addons and widgets also have to keep up
> with our ecosystem.
>
> (Another backstory: Don't forget the stable/stable linguistic play; I've
> seen RCs here that were actually more "stable" than the final, because
> glitches, regressions, and extra bugs are sometimes - perhaps often -
> introduced in the very process of fixing bugs. Depending on a stable to
> be stable is a gamble, and depending on the specific features in an app,
> there are times when the RC is more reliable. Nevertheless I really hate
> to publish anything with an RC; only when forced to do so.)
>
> BTW, Paul knows all of this very well. I'm just replying publicly in
> case the backstories will benefit other readers here in the process. :)
>
> Best wishes,
>
> Curry Kenworthy
>
> Custom Software Development
> "Better Methods, Better Results"
> LiveCode Training and Consulting
> http://livecodeconsulting.com/
>
> ___
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode@lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your
> subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
>
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Re: LC & Mac M1 Chip

[Curry Kenworthy via use-livecode]

Paul:

> we have several customer who have said
> they are upgrading to M1 laptops

Yes; important to support! I'm looking in that direction too. It'll be 
popular, plus it's what I can afford. Many people in the same boat.


(Backstory: Apple's biz model forces Apple to force us to spend on 
hardware. The mobile herd sticks with Apple, so the dev herd does too, 
so wallets must open and notes must rain down. But not satisfied yet 
with the rain from software tweaks, so now hardware tweaks too.)


I'm planning to get an M1 Mac this year, to get back on the bleeding 
edge for a while. It's time. My old Mac hardware is still perfectly 
good, it was well-built and has zero issues, but finally has been pushed 
into what will soon be an untenable corner by the combo of new OS to 
support and new chip to support. But the older Mac will continue to 
serve for testing and for transition dev if needed.


> a sense of when LC 9.6.2 STABLE may be out?

Could be roughly predicted, maybe, by looking at what they are working 
on. I actually agree with LC's anti release date policy; announcing firm 
dates is just begging for another issue to pop up. But since Apple's biz 
model places so much pressure on devs to keep up, a sense would be good. 
Especially since third-party addons and widgets also have to keep up 
with our ecosystem.


(Another backstory: Don't forget the stable/stable linguistic play; I've 
seen RCs here that were actually more "stable" than the final, because 
glitches, regressions, and extra bugs are sometimes - perhaps often - 
introduced in the very process of fixing bugs. Depending on a stable to 
be stable is a gamble, and depending on the specific features in an app, 
there are times when the RC is more reliable. Nevertheless I really hate 
to publish anything with an RC; only when forced to do so.)


BTW, Paul knows all of this very well. I'm just replying publicly in 
case the backstories will benefit other readers here in the process. :)


Best wishes,

Curry Kenworthy

Custom Software Development
"Better Methods, Better Results"
LiveCode Training and Consulting
http://livecodeconsulting.com/

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Re: LC & Mac M1 Chip

[Paul Dupuis via use-livecode]

I know the mothership does not like to estimate release dates, but does 
anyone have a sense of when LC 9.6.2 STABLE may be out? And more 
importantly, whether it will come with 'official' support for the M1 
hardware or at least a fix for this apparent M1 specific bug: 
https://quality.livecode.com/show_bug.cgi?id=23013


We're getting a certain amount of pressure for our primary app to 
support the Big Sur and the new hardware. LC9.6.2rc1 address our main 
Big Sur issues (not that there were many), but the dashes in menus on M1 
(#23013) concerns me as we have several customer who have said they are 
upgrading to M1 laptops.




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Re: LC & Mac M1 Chip

[Marty Knapp via use-livecode]

I figured it was good, but thanks for letting us know.

Marty

>>> On Dec 30, 2020, at 7:07 PM, Roger Guay via use-livecode 
>>>  wrote:
>>> 
>>> Yes, I just tried it and it works fine! I’m happy to try yours out if you 
>>> wish??
>>> 
>>> Roger


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Re: LC & Mac M1 Chip

[Paul Dupuis via use-livecode]

On 12/31/2020 8:22 AM, John Balgenorth via use-livecode wrote:

I thought the Mac M1 Chip has Rosetta or something
like that allowing most 64 bit programs to still  run
so I was thinking any 64 bit version of LC would still
work.


You can search the Livecode Quality center for Big Sur bugs. As I recall 
the 3 main ones were:


1) A bug with custom window shapes (not an issue if you do not use any 
custom window shapes)
2) A bug with the highlights on tabbed buttons (not an issue if you do 
not use tabbed buttons - also there was a script work-around available)

3) An issue with dialogs displayed "as sheet"

These bugs are resent under Big Sur (regardless of whether you are on 
the M1 chip or Intel) in LC 9.6.1 and are fixed in 9.6.2rc1


Again, search the https://quality.livecode.com/ for "big sur" for details



JB



On Dec 31, 2020, at 5:15 AM, Paul Dupuis via use-livecode 
 wrote:

You need to be on macOS Big Sur for the new hardware (I think).

There are bugs in LC vs Big Sur that are only fixed in LC 9.6.2rc1 so you 
probably want to rebuild any Standalones using that version of LC



On 12/30/2020 10:29 PM, John Balgenorth via use-livecode wrote:
Should any LC standalone work with the Mac M1 Chip
if it was working on Mojave and above?

JB



On Dec 30, 2020, at 7:07 PM, Roger Guay via use-livecode 
 wrote:

Yes, I just tried it and it works fine! I’m happy to try yours out if you 
wish??

Roger



On Dec 30, 2020, at 2:47 PM, Marty Knapp via use-livecode 
 wrote:

Has anyone tried an LC standalone on one of the new Macs with the M1 chip? I 
have customers asking and I don’t want to go buy one just to find out!

Thanks,
Marty
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Re: LC & Mac M1 Chip

[John Balgenorth via use-livecode]

I thought the Mac M1 Chip has Rosetta or something
like that allowing most 64 bit programs to still  run
so I was thinking any 64 bit version of LC would still
work.

JB


> On Dec 31, 2020, at 5:15 AM, Paul Dupuis via use-livecode 
>  wrote:
> 
> You need to be on macOS Big Sur for the new hardware (I think).
> 
> There are bugs in LC vs Big Sur that are only fixed in LC 9.6.2rc1 so you 
> probably want to rebuild any Standalones using that version of LC
> 
> 
>> On 12/30/2020 10:29 PM, John Balgenorth via use-livecode wrote:
>> Should any LC standalone work with the Mac M1 Chip
>> if it was working on Mojave and above?
>> 
>> JB
>> 
>> 
 On Dec 30, 2020, at 7:07 PM, Roger Guay via use-livecode 
  wrote:
>>> 
>>> Yes, I just tried it and it works fine! I’m happy to try yours out if you 
>>> wish??
>>> 
>>> Roger
>>> 
>>> 
 On Dec 30, 2020, at 2:47 PM, Marty Knapp via use-livecode 
  wrote:
 
 Has anyone tried an LC standalone on one of the new Macs with the M1 chip? 
 I have customers asking and I don’t want to go buy one just to find out!
 
 Thanks,
 Marty
 ___
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 use-livecode@lists.runrev.com
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 subscription preferences:
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Re: LC & Mac M1 Chip

[Paul Dupuis via use-livecode]

You need to be on macOS Big Sur for the new hardware (I think).

There are bugs in LC vs Big Sur that are only fixed in LC 9.6.2rc1 so 
you probably want to rebuild any Standalones using that version of LC



On 12/30/2020 10:29 PM, John Balgenorth via use-livecode wrote:

Should any LC standalone work with the Mac M1 Chip
if it was working on Mojave and above?

JB



On Dec 30, 2020, at 7:07 PM, Roger Guay via use-livecode 
 wrote:

Yes, I just tried it and it works fine! I’m happy to try yours out if you 
wish??

Roger



On Dec 30, 2020, at 2:47 PM, Marty Knapp via use-livecode 
 wrote:

Has anyone tried an LC standalone on one of the new Macs with the M1 chip? I 
have customers asking and I don’t want to go buy one just to find out!

Thanks,
Marty
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Re: LC & Mac M1 Chip

[John Balgenorth via use-livecode]

Good to know! 
Thanks for the  info.

JB



> On Dec 30, 2020, at 8:03 PM, Roger Guay via use-livecode 
>  wrote:
> 
> I think so, but others may be more informed.
> 
> Roger
> 
>> On Dec 30, 2020, at 7:29 PM, John Balgenorth via use-livecode 
>>  wrote:
>> 
>> Should any LC standalone work with the Mac M1 Chip
>> if it was working on Mojave and above?
>> 
>> JB
>> 
>> 
 On Dec 30, 2020, at 7:07 PM, Roger Guay via use-livecode 
  wrote:
>>> 
>>> Yes, I just tried it and it works fine! I’m happy to try yours out if you 
>>> wish??
>>> 
>>> Roger
>>> 
>>> 
 On Dec 30, 2020, at 2:47 PM, Marty Knapp via use-livecode 
  wrote:
 
 Has anyone tried an LC standalone on one of the new Macs with the M1 chip? 
 I have customers asking and I don’t want to go buy one just to find out!
 
 Thanks,
 Marty
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 subscription preferences:
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>>> 
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Re: LC & Mac M1 Chip

[Roger Guay via use-livecode]

I think so, but others may be more informed.

Roger

> On Dec 30, 2020, at 7:29 PM, John Balgenorth via use-livecode 
>  wrote:
> 
> Should any LC standalone work with the Mac M1 Chip
> if it was working on Mojave and above?
> 
> JB
> 
> 
>> On Dec 30, 2020, at 7:07 PM, Roger Guay via use-livecode 
>>  wrote:
>> 
>> Yes, I just tried it and it works fine! I’m happy to try yours out if you 
>> wish??
>> 
>> Roger
>> 
>> 
>>> On Dec 30, 2020, at 2:47 PM, Marty Knapp via use-livecode 
>>>  wrote:
>>> 
>>> Has anyone tried an LC standalone on one of the new Macs with the M1 chip? 
>>> I have customers asking and I don’t want to go buy one just to find out!
>>> 
>>> Thanks,
>>> Marty
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Re: LC & Mac M1 Chip

[John Balgenorth via use-livecode]

Should any LC standalone work with the Mac M1 Chip
if it was working on Mojave and above?

JB


> On Dec 30, 2020, at 7:07 PM, Roger Guay via use-livecode 
>  wrote:
> 
> Yes, I just tried it and it works fine! I’m happy to try yours out if you 
> wish??
> 
> Roger
> 
> 
>> On Dec 30, 2020, at 2:47 PM, Marty Knapp via use-livecode 
>>  wrote:
>> 
>> Has anyone tried an LC standalone on one of the new Macs with the M1 chip? I 
>> have customers asking and I don’t want to go buy one just to find out!
>> 
>> Thanks,
>> Marty
>> ___
>> use-livecode mailing list
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>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription 
>> preferences:
>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
> 
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Re: LC & Mac M1 Chip

[Roger Guay via use-livecode]

Yes, I just tried it and it works fine! I’m happy to try yours out if you wish??

Roger


> On Dec 30, 2020, at 2:47 PM, Marty Knapp via use-livecode 
>  wrote:
> 
> Has anyone tried an LC standalone on one of the new Macs with the M1 chip? I 
> have customers asking and I don’t want to go buy one just to find out!
> 
> Thanks,
> Marty
> ___
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> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription 
> preferences:
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LC & Mac M1 Chip

[Marty Knapp via use-livecode]

Has anyone tried an LC standalone on one of the new Macs with the M1 chip? I 
have customers asking and I don’t want to go buy one just to find out!

Thanks,
Marty
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