Re: OT: It's Android Jim, but not as we know it (what CPUs does Livecode compile to?)

[J. Landman Gay]

On 7/23/11 3:19 AM, Bernard Devlin wrote:

Jacque, that sounds like the easiest option in order for me to test
the device in-store (but at this stage I'm feeling very confident it
will work to run Livecode apps).  If you could put a simple 'hello
world' on to dropbox and send me the URL off list, then I'll give it a
go.


Sure, no problem. Will write off-list.

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Jacqueline Landman Gay | jac...@hyperactivesw.com
HyperActive Software   | http://www.hyperactivesw.com

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Re: OT: It's Android Jim, but not as we know it (what CPUs does Livecode compile to?)

[Bernard Devlin]

Jacque, that sounds like the easiest option in order for me to test
the device in-store (but at this stage I'm feeling very confident it
will work to run Livecode apps).  If you could put a simple 'hello
world' on to dropbox and send me the URL off list, then I'll give it a
go.

The various hurdles put in the way of app distribution/installation on
the various iOS devices is the very thing that has kept me far away
from those devices (and indeed from other Apple products) - not that
any of that has stopped Apple's roaring profits :)

Bernard

On Fri, Jul 22, 2011 at 8:02 PM, J. Landman Gay
 wrote:
> I've been very grateful for the ease of installation on Android. There are
> so many more ways to do an installation than Apple provides, and it's always
> very easy.
>
> The problem with email on a store device is that Bernard would have to set
> up the display model with his email info. Given the versatility of Android,
> I was thinking of using my public folder in Dropbox. Then he could install
> the free Dropbox on the store model and just click on my test app in there.
> Or if the store doesn't mind, he could copy the app to a thumb drive, attach
> it to the device, and install that way.

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Re: OT: It's Android Jim, but not as we know it (what CPUs does Livecode compile to?)

[J. Landman Gay]

On 7/22/11 6:58 AM, Roger Eller wrote:


I don't have anything on the Android Market.  Unlike iOS, you can easily
install an APK that LiveCode has built, so I could email you a test app.
  You simply check the box in your security settings to allow an install from
unknown sources, then go to the attachment in your email to install it, and
afterwards uncheck allow unknown sources.


I've been very grateful for the ease of installation on Android. There 
are so many more ways to do an installation than Apple provides, and 
it's always very easy.


The problem with email on a store device is that Bernard would have to 
set up the display model with his email info. Given the versatility of 
Android, I was thinking of using my public folder in Dropbox. Then he 
could install the free Dropbox on the store model and just click on my 
test app in there. Or if the store doesn't mind, he could copy the app 
to a thumb drive, attach it to the device, and install that way.


At any rate, lots of options. The downside is that it is just as easy 
for someone to distribute malicious software. An Android user has to be 
more careful about that than iOS users.


--
Jacqueline Landman Gay | jac...@hyperactivesw.com
HyperActive Software   | http://www.hyperactivesw.com

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Re: OT: It's Android Jim, but not as we know it (what CPUs does Livecode compile to?)

[Roger Eller]

On Fri, Jul 22, 2011 at 1:43 AM, Bernard Devlin wrote:

> Thanks Roger, that sounds like the first hurdle will be overcome.  As
> a machine that I might carry with me to run admin/monitoring apps
> written in Livecode, the Transformer is looking better.  I've never
> tried to see how much could be done within the scriptLimits but
> provided I don't look on it as being a main development machine, then
> it may be workable ( I have no need to create standalones on it).  I
> too have no real expectation that Runrev would provide an IDE that
> runs on Android/ARM - not unless such Android tablets/netbooks sweep
> the world :)  Until this week I had pretty much no interest in
> developing for iOS/Android.
>
> Do you have a Livecode app in the Android Marketplace I could use to
> test on it? If not, I'll take Jacques up on her kind offer offlist.
>
> Also, can one install a Livecode app on a machine without going
> through the hassle of listing it in the Marketplace?  Can they be
> installed e.g. by downloading them from a URL?
>
> Looks like Runrev are going to be getting me to upgrade my license once
> again.
>
> Bernard
>
>
I don't have anything on the Android Market.  Unlike iOS, you can easily
install an APK that LiveCode has built, so I could email you a test app.
 You simply check the box in your security settings to allow an install from
unknown sources, then go to the attachment in your email to install it, and
afterwards uncheck allow unknown sources.

˜Roger
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Re: OT: It's Android Jim, but not as we know it (what CPUs does Livecode compile to?)

[Bernard Devlin]

Thanks Roger, that sounds like the first hurdle will be overcome.  As
a machine that I might carry with me to run admin/monitoring apps
written in Livecode, the Transformer is looking better.  I've never
tried to see how much could be done within the scriptLimits but
provided I don't look on it as being a main development machine, then
it may be workable ( I have no need to create standalones on it).  I
too have no real expectation that Runrev would provide an IDE that
runs on Android/ARM - not unless such Android tablets/netbooks sweep
the world :)  Until this week I had pretty much no interest in
developing for iOS/Android.

Do you have a Livecode app in the Android Marketplace I could use to
test on it? If not, I'll take Jacques up on her kind offer offlist.

Also, can one install a Livecode app on a machine without going
through the hassle of listing it in the Marketplace?  Can they be
installed e.g. by downloading them from a URL?

Looks like Runrev are going to be getting me to upgrade my license once again.

Bernard

On Fri, Jul 22, 2011 at 2:39 AM, Roger Eller
 wrote:
> My Android tablet has the nVidia Tegra2 dual-core CPU (which is ARM based),
> and my LiveCode apps are working great, as are many apps I have installed
> from the Android Market.
>
> Earlier, Bernard wrote:
>   > I guess I'm really hoping for too much to think that Livecode could run
> on a Tegra
>   > (I know the Linux IDE is only compiled for intel).
>
> I seriously doubt that RunRev intends for the IDE to run on mobile, if that
> is your intent for getting the Asus Transformer.  As an Android testing
> device, it should be fine.

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Re: OT: It's Android Jim, but not as we know it (what CPUs does Livecode compile to?)

[Roger Eller]

On Thu, Jul 21, 2011 at 8:46 PM, J. Landman Gay wrote:

> On 7/21/11 6:02 PM, Bernard Devlin wrote:
>
>  If someone provides me with an identifiable free app from the Android
>> Marketplace which was coded in Livecode, then I can go back to the
>> store and see if I can find, install and run it.
>>
>
> I'm not sure there are any yet. Someone asked on the forums and last I
> looked there were no responses. I'd be happy to compile the Hello World
> example for you to test. If you're game for that, drop me an email offlist
> and we can figure out logistics.
>
> --
> Jacqueline Landman Gay | jac...@hyperactivesw.com
> HyperActive Software   | http://www.hyperactivesw.com
>
>
My Android tablet has the nVidia Tegra2 dual-core CPU (which is ARM based),
and my LiveCode apps are working great, as are many apps I have installed
from the Android Market.

Earlier, Bernard wrote:
   > I guess I'm really hoping for too much to think that Livecode could run
on a Tegra
   > (I know the Linux IDE is only compiled for intel).

I seriously doubt that RunRev intends for the IDE to run on mobile, if that
is your intent for getting the Asus Transformer.  As an Android testing
device, it should be fine.

˜Roger
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Re: OT: It's Android Jim, but not as we know it (what CPUs does Livecode compile to?)

[J. Landman Gay]

On 7/21/11 6:02 PM, Bernard Devlin wrote:


If someone provides me with an identifiable free app from the Android
Marketplace which was coded in Livecode, then I can go back to the
store and see if I can find, install and run it.


I'm not sure there are any yet. Someone asked on the forums and last I 
looked there were no responses. I'd be happy to compile the Hello World 
example for you to test. If you're game for that, drop me an email 
offlist and we can figure out logistics.


--
Jacqueline Landman Gay | jac...@hyperactivesw.com
HyperActive Software   | http://www.hyperactivesw.com

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Re: OT: It's Android Jim, but not as we know it (what CPUs does Livecode compile to?)

[J. Landman Gay]

On 7/21/11 4:52 PM, Andre Garzia wrote:


Applications that target the dalvik virtual machine will run accross
different CPUs but as I understand Android has some NDK thing like a Native
CPU Specific Development Kit where you can compile C/C++ code such as the
LiveCode engine and call it from a dalvik based application. As I
understand, LiveCode is probably being built natively for the ARM CPU on
Android and maybe x86 to run on the Android Emulator (or the Android
Emulator is emulating ARM).

This is my guess, I may be wrong though


You'd know better than me, so you're probably right. But if the machine 
can run Market apps, would that be a good test?


--
Jacqueline Landman Gay | jac...@hyperactivesw.com
HyperActive Software   | http://www.hyperactivesw.com

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Re: OT: It's Android Jim, but not as we know it (what CPUs does Livecode compile to?)

[Bernard Devlin]

Since the Tegra has an ARM processor on the system chip, then it would
seem to fundamentally be an ARM processor.  It is a rather amazing
ecosystem where linux/google/ARM/nvidia/asus combine to produce
something like that, which was probably never envisaged by any of them
10 years ago.

It does run things from the (or at least "an") Android marketplace (I
guess it might be configured to go to a processor-specific
marketplace).  Since I'm such a total noob in this particular area, I
don't know the ins and outs.  But certainly it lists "top free apps"
and "top paid apps" that can be installed.

If someone provides me with an identifiable free app from the Android
Marketplace which was coded in Livecode, then I can go back to the
store and see if I can find, install and run it.

Bernard

On Thu, Jul 21, 2011 at 10:52 PM, Andre Garzia  wrote:
> On Thu, Jul 21, 2011 at 6:36 PM, J. Landman Gay 
> wrote:
>
>> I don't know. But if the device can download and run apps from the Android
>> market then it should be able to run anything LiveCode compiles. As I
>> understand it, the processor is immaterial, it's the OS that counts. If the
>> processor runs a standard Android distribution then it should run
>> LiveCode-compiled Android apps.
>>
>>
> Not Really Jacque,
>
> Applications that target the dalvik virtual machine will run accross
> different CPUs but as I understand Android has some NDK thing like a Native
> CPU Specific Development Kit where you can compile C/C++ code such as the
> LiveCode engine and call it from a dalvik based application. As I
> understand, LiveCode is probably being built natively for the ARM CPU on
> Android and maybe x86 to run on the Android Emulator (or the Android
> Emulator is emulating ARM).
>
> This is my guess, I may be wrong though
>
>> Maybe the first thing to find out is if it can run standard Market apps.
>>
>> --
>> Jacqueline Landman Gay         |     jac...@hyperactivesw.com

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Re: OT: It's Android Jim, but not as we know it (what CPUs does Livecode compile to?)

[Bob Sneidar]

Aslong as this is OT and we are on the subject of Android, has anyone else 
noticed that Android Wifi Tethering simply hoses Airport Wireless? Sure seems 
to around here. 

Bob


On Jul 21, 2011, at 2:13 PM, Bernard Devlin wrote:

> Hi folks,
> 
> This is a question for those of you who have sallied forth into the
> world of Android development (or, who have at least considered it).
> 
> When Livecode creates an app for Android deployment, what CPU
> architecture does Livecode compile for?


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Re: OT: It's Android Jim, but not as we know it (what CPUs does Livecode compile to?)

[François Chaplais]

Le 21 juil. 2011 à 23:52, Andre Garzia a écrit :

> On Thu, Jul 21, 2011 at 6:36 PM, J. Landman Gay 
> wrote:
> 
>> On 7/21/11 4:13 PM, Bernard Devlin wrote:
>> 
>>> Hi folks,
>>> 
>>> This is a question for those of you who have sallied forth into the
>>> world of Android development (or, who have at least considered it).
>>> 
>>> When Livecode creates an app for Android deployment, what CPU
>>> architecture does Livecode compile for?
>>> 
>>> My reason for asking is that I like the look of the Asus Transformer.
>>> It is an Android tablet that docks into a keyboard.  But the processor
>>> is the Tegra.  I'm guessing that Livecode will not be compiling apps
>>> for such an unusual processor.
>>> 
>> 
>> I don't know. But if the device can download and run apps from the Android
>> market then it should be able to run anything LiveCode compiles. As I
>> understand it, the processor is immaterial, it's the OS that counts. If the
>> processor runs a standard Android distribution then it should run
>> LiveCode-compiled Android apps.
>> 
>> 
> Not Really Jacque,
> 
> Applications that target the dalvik virtual machine will run accross
> different CPUs but as I understand Android has some NDK thing like a Native
> CPU Specific Development Kit where you can compile C/C++ code such as the
> LiveCode engine and call it from a dalvik based application. As I
> understand, LiveCode is probably being built natively for the ARM CPU on
> Android and maybe x86 to run on the Android Emulator (or the Android
> Emulator is emulating ARM).
> 
> This is my guess, I may be wrong though
> 
Isn'it some kind of Java? The kind of Java Larry Ellison is suing Google about?
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Re: OT: It's Android Jim, but not as we know it (what CPUs does Livecode compile to?)

[Andre Garzia]

On Thu, Jul 21, 2011 at 6:36 PM, J. Landman Gay wrote:

> On 7/21/11 4:13 PM, Bernard Devlin wrote:
>
>> Hi folks,
>>
>> This is a question for those of you who have sallied forth into the
>> world of Android development (or, who have at least considered it).
>>
>> When Livecode creates an app for Android deployment, what CPU
>> architecture does Livecode compile for?
>>
>> My reason for asking is that I like the look of the Asus Transformer.
>> It is an Android tablet that docks into a keyboard.  But the processor
>> is the Tegra.  I'm guessing that Livecode will not be compiling apps
>> for such an unusual processor.
>>
>
> I don't know. But if the device can download and run apps from the Android
> market then it should be able to run anything LiveCode compiles. As I
> understand it, the processor is immaterial, it's the OS that counts. If the
> processor runs a standard Android distribution then it should run
> LiveCode-compiled Android apps.
>
>
Not Really Jacque,

Applications that target the dalvik virtual machine will run accross
different CPUs but as I understand Android has some NDK thing like a Native
CPU Specific Development Kit where you can compile C/C++ code such as the
LiveCode engine and call it from a dalvik based application. As I
understand, LiveCode is probably being built natively for the ARM CPU on
Android and maybe x86 to run on the Android Emulator (or the Android
Emulator is emulating ARM).

This is my guess, I may be wrong though





> Maybe the first thing to find out is if it can run standard Market apps.
>
> --
> Jacqueline Landman Gay | jac...@hyperactivesw.com
> HyperActive Software   | http://www.hyperactivesw.com
>
>
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-- 
http://www.andregarzia.com All We Do Is Code.
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Re: OT: It's Android Jim, but not as we know it (what CPUs does Livecode compile to?)

[J. Landman Gay]

On 7/21/11 4:13 PM, Bernard Devlin wrote:

Hi folks,

This is a question for those of you who have sallied forth into the
world of Android development (or, who have at least considered it).

When Livecode creates an app for Android deployment, what CPU
architecture does Livecode compile for?

My reason for asking is that I like the look of the Asus Transformer.
It is an Android tablet that docks into a keyboard.  But the processor
is the Tegra.  I'm guessing that Livecode will not be compiling apps
for such an unusual processor.


I don't know. But if the device can download and run apps from the 
Android market then it should be able to run anything LiveCode compiles. 
As I understand it, the processor is immaterial, it's the OS that 
counts. If the processor runs a standard Android distribution then it 
should run LiveCode-compiled Android apps.


Maybe the first thing to find out is if it can run standard Market apps.

--
Jacqueline Landman Gay | jac...@hyperactivesw.com
HyperActive Software   | http://www.hyperactivesw.com

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Re: OT: It's Android Jim, but not as we know it (what CPUs does Livecode compile to?)

[Richard Gaskin]

Bernard Devlin wrote:


When Livecode creates an app for Android deployment, what CPU
architecture does Livecode compile for?

My reason for asking is that I like the look of the Asus Transformer.
It is an Android tablet that docks into a keyboard.  But the processor
is the Tegra.  I'm guessing that Livecode will not be compiling apps
for such an unusual processor.


I haven't a clue, but that won't stop me from random conjecture. :)

My hunch is that it's like AMD and Intel:  different makers, compatible 
instruction set.


I can't imagine the Tegra would expect every developer to recompile for it.

If you get one let us know how you like it.  Looks like a sweet machine.

--
 Richard Gaskin
 Fourth World
 LiveCode training and consulting: http://www.fourthworld.com
 Webzine for LiveCode developers: http://www.LiveCodeJournal.com
 LiveCode Journal blog: http://LiveCodejournal.com/blog.irv

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OT: It's Android Jim, but not as we know it (what CPUs does Livecode compile to?)

[Bernard Devlin]

Hi folks,

This is a question for those of you who have sallied forth into the
world of Android development (or, who have at least considered it).

When Livecode creates an app for Android deployment, what CPU
architecture does Livecode compile for?

My reason for asking is that I like the look of the Asus Transformer.
It is an Android tablet that docks into a keyboard.  But the processor
is the Tegra.  I'm guessing that Livecode will not be compiling apps
for such an unusual processor.  Assuming that Android (ultimately)
provides an OS that runs identically (let me dream) across different
processor architectures, then it would be great to be able to actually
run the IDE on a machine like the Transformer.  From what I read, the
Transformer is still a little imperfect (in terms of manufacturing
quality, and pointer lag when docked into the keyboard).  But it has
only been around for a few months and shows great promise as a design.

http://www.engadget.com/2011/04/18/asus-eee-pad-transformer-uk-edition-review/
http://thisismynext.com/2011/05/12/asus-eee-pad-transformer-tf101-review/#1_undefined,0_

As a tablet it is only marginally heavier than an iPad (about 10%).
And as a tablet it has a supposed battery life of 8 hours, plus
another 6 when docked to the keyboard (if fully charged on both
battery packs, the usage times of both are combined to provide 14
hours or so).  Being a dockable touchscreen, it has the benefits of
mutliple input modes (I really can't be doing with more than minimal
typing with an onscreen keyboard).  I held a Transformer today, and it
is pretty sweet (although I didn't get to touch the keyboard, as they
were sold out).

I wasn't very impressed by the quality of the early Asus EEE netbooks,
but the Transformer felt like a quality product.  The Acer AA1s were
superior to the early Asus netbooks - for some months now I've been
using a later Acer netbook for portable computing, and I've been
surprisingly pleased with the form factor and the performance.  Of
course, I still find the Macbook Air a very, very seductive design,
but Apple's attitudes have been fuelling a love/hate relationship for
me for some years now.

I guess I'm really hoping for too much to think that Livecode could
run on a Tegra (I know the Linux IDE is only compiled for intel).
Microsoft just about killed alternative operating systems on netbooks
(as OEM installations), but it looks like Linux might rise again on
these small laptops using Android.  Certainly I've never seen an OEM
install of linux on a netbook with the finesse of Android on the Asus
Transformer, and I've never seen a netbook with the build quality of
the Transformer tablet.  And the Transformer (including the dockable
keyboard) is about half the price of a Macbook Air.  If the
Transformer had access to the masses of apps found in a typical Linux
distro AND had a Livecode IDE that was at parity with the IDE on
Windows or OS X, I think I'd be in a very happy place technologically.

The Wikipedia entry on the Tegra says that it is a system on a chip
that incorporates an ARM processor, and that Ubuntu will run on it in
addition to Android.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nvidia_Tegra
http://tegradeveloper.nvidia.com/tegra/forum/what-operating-systems-are-supported-tegra

I think however, the idea of getting even a basic Livecode development
platform running (e.g. one that ran within the scriptlimits inside an
Android app) might be the most I could hope for.  Still, I did not see
myself developing apps for an Android mobile phone, but running
Livecode apps on an Asus Transformer would be of interest to me.

Bernard

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