Printing in LC 7.0.3

[Terence Heaford]

Mac, Yosemite 10.10.2

Why does this work in LC 6.7.3 and not LC 7.0.3

on mouseUp
   
   answer page setup as sheet
  if the result = "cancel" then
 exit mouseUp
  end if
  answer printer as sheet
  if the result = "cancel" then
 exit mouseUp
  end if
  
  put 0,0,300,200 into tPrintRect
  
   print card from 0,0 to 300,200 into tPrintRect

end mouseUp


All the best

Terry
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Re: Printing in LC 7.0.3

[stephen barncard]

On Wed, Mar 4, 2015 at 10:34 AM, Terence Heaford 
wrote:

> put 0,0,300,200 into tPrintRect


why no quotes around the comma delimited list?

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Re: Printing in LC 7.0.3

[Mike Doub]

Lookup ,  in the dictionary.   It is a function.



On Wednesday, March 4, 2015, stephen barncard <
stephenrevoluti...@barncard.com> wrote:

> On Wed, Mar 4, 2015 at 10:34 AM, Terence Heaford  >
> wrote:
>
> > put 0,0,300,200 into tPrintRect
>
>
> why no quotes around the comma delimited list?
>
> --
> Stephen Barncard - Sebastopol Ca. USA - Deeds Not Words
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Re: Printing in LC 7.0.3

[Paul Hibbert]

I can confirm this works in LC 6.7.3 but not LC 7.0.3 on Yosemite.

As far as I know this is the type of problem RR say they need to know about, so 
it really should be reported as a bug.

If you don't wish to, or don't have the time to report it, just let me know and 
I'll be happy to report it for you.

Paul

> On Mar 4, 2015, at 10:34 AM, Terence Heaford  wrote:
> 
> Mac, Yosemite 10.10.2
> 
> Why does this work in LC 6.7.3 and not LC 7.0.3
> 
> on mouseUp
> 
>   answer page setup as sheet
>  if the result = "cancel" then
> exit mouseUp
>  end if
>  answer printer as sheet
>  if the result = "cancel" then
> exit mouseUp
>  end if
> 
>  put 0,0,300,200 into tPrintRect
> 
>   print card from 0,0 to 300,200 into tPrintRect
> 
> end mouseUp
> 
> 
> All the best
> 
> Terry
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Re: Printing in LC 7.0.3

[Terence Heaford]

Will you report it please.

Perhaps you will have better luck reporting BUGS than me.

I’ve never had a reported bug resolved.

Thanks

Terry


> On 5 Mar 2015, at 05:53, Paul Hibbert  wrote:
> 
> If you don't wish to, or don't have the time to report it, just let me know 
> and I'll be happy to report it for you.

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Re: Printing in LC 7.0.3

[Terence Heaford]

Out of interest and not to be to provocative, how are you supposed to migrate 
to LC 7 as suggested by Richard Gaskin when something as obvious as printing 
does not work?

All the best

Terry


> On 4 Mar 2015, at 18:34, Terence Heaford  wrote:
> 
> Mac, Yosemite 10.10.2
> 
> Why does this work in LC 6.7.3 and not LC 7.0.3
> 
> on mouseUp
>
>answer page setup as sheet
>   if the result = "cancel" then
>  exit mouseUp
>   end if
>   answer printer as sheet
>   if the result = "cancel" then
>  exit mouseUp
>   end if
>   
>   put 0,0,300,200 into tPrintRect
>   
>print card from 0,0 to 300,200 into tPrintRect
> 
> end mouseUp
> 
> 
> All the best
> 
> Terry

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Re: Printing in LC 7.0.3

[Graham Samuel]

I don’t think ‘put’ is a function, it’s a command. According to the LC 
Dictionary, it expects "any expression that evaluates to a string.” So it is 
quite clever of the engine to interpret a set of numbers separated by commas as 
a string. 

LC has a number of helpful interpretations like this, but I'm not sure how many 
of them are official. If unofficial, then it's presumably legit (even if very 
annoying) when RunRev tightens the rules.

Graham

> On 5 Mar 2015, at 04:17, Mike Doub  wrote:
> 
> Lookup ,  in the dictionary.   It is a function.
> 
> 
> 
> On Wednesday, March 4, 2015, stephen barncard <
> stephenrevoluti...@barncard.com> wrote:
> 
>> On Wed, Mar 4, 2015 at 10:34 AM, Terence Heaford > >
>> wrote:
>> 
>>> put 0,0,300,200 into tPrintRect
>> 
>> 
>> why no quotes around the comma delimited list?
>> 
>> --
>> Stephen Barncard - Sebastopol Ca. USA - Deeds Not Words
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Re: Printing in LC 7.0.3

[Mike Doub]

Graham, I think you misunderstood my comment.   The comma is actually a
function.  It concatinates two string with a comma in the middle.  Much
like &&.

I got confused on this one too.   But it is really helpful, especially when
working with screen coordinates.

Mike

On Thursday, March 5, 2015, Graham Samuel  wrote:

> I don’t think ‘put’ is a function, it’s a command. According to the LC
> Dictionary, it expects "any expression that evaluates to a string.” So it
> is quite clever of the engine to interpret a set of numbers separated by
> commas as a string.
>
> LC has a number of helpful interpretations like this, but I'm not sure how
> many of them are official. If unofficial, then it's presumably legit (even
> if very annoying) when RunRev tightens the rules.
>
> Graham
>
> > On 5 Mar 2015, at 04:17, Mike Doub >
> wrote:
> >
> > Lookup ,  in the dictionary.   It is a function.
> >
> >
> >
> > On Wednesday, March 4, 2015, stephen barncard <
> > stephenrevoluti...@barncard.com > wrote:
> >
> >> On Wed, Mar 4, 2015 at 10:34 AM, Terence Heaford  
> >> >
> >> wrote:
> >>
> >>> put 0,0,300,200 into tPrintRect
> >>
> >>
> >> why no quotes around the comma delimited list?
> >>
> >> --
> >> Stephen Barncard - Sebastopol Ca. USA - Deeds Not Words
> >> ___
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Re: Printing in LC 7.0.3

[Graham Samuel]

Wow! I certainly did misunderstand. I had no idea that comma was a function. 
Always something new to learn.

Thanks

Graham

> On 5 Mar 2015, at 12:40, Mike Doub  wrote:
> 
> Graham, I think you misunderstood my comment.   The comma is actually a
> function.  It concatinates two string with a comma in the middle.  Much
> like &&.
> 
> I got confused on this one too.   But it is really helpful, especially when
> working with screen coordinates.
> 
> Mike
> 
> On Thursday, March 5, 2015, Graham Samuel  wrote:
> 
>> I don’t think ‘put’ is a function, it’s a command. According to the LC
>> Dictionary, it expects "any expression that evaluates to a string.” So it
>> is quite clever of the engine to interpret a set of numbers separated by
>> commas as a string.
>> 
>> LC has a number of helpful interpretations like this, but I'm not sure how
>> many of them are official. If unofficial, then it's presumably legit (even
>> if very annoying) when RunRev tightens the rules.
>> 
>> Graham
>> 
>>> On 5 Mar 2015, at 04:17, Mike Doub >
>> wrote:
>>> 
>>> Lookup ,  in the dictionary.   It is a function.
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> On Wednesday, March 4, 2015, stephen barncard <
>>> stephenrevoluti...@barncard.com > wrote:
>>> 
 On Wed, Mar 4, 2015 at 10:34 AM, Terence Heaford > 
 >
 wrote:
 
> put 0,0,300,200 into tPrintRect
 
 
 why no quotes around the comma delimited list?
 
 --
 Stephen Barncard - Sebastopol Ca. USA - Deeds Not Words
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Re: Printing in LC 7.0.3

[J. Landman Gay]

Regardless of how comma works, the result is still a string and this handler 
puts the literal value of that string into a variable. Literals require quotes 
around them, and while the engine may have been more lenient about that pre-7.0 
the quotes should technically be there. So before I'd report this as a bug, I'd 
see If using the required syntax fixes it. 


On March 5, 2015 5:40:40 AM CST, Mike Doub  wrote:
>Graham, I think you misunderstood my comment.   The comma is actually a
>function.  It concatinates two string with a comma in the middle.  Much
>like &&.
>
>I got confused on this one too.   But it is really helpful, especially
>when
>working with screen coordinates.
>
>Mike
>
>On Thursday, March 5, 2015, Graham Samuel  wrote:
>
>> I don’t think ‘put’ is a function, it’s a command. According to the
>LC
>> Dictionary, it expects "any expression that evaluates to a string.”
>So it
>> is quite clever of the engine to interpret a set of numbers separated
>by
>> commas as a string.
>>
>> LC has a number of helpful interpretations like this, but I'm not
>sure how
>> many of them are official. If unofficial, then it's presumably legit
>(even
>> if very annoying) when RunRev tightens the rules.
>>
>> Graham
>>
>> > On 5 Mar 2015, at 04:17, Mike Doub >
>> wrote:
>> >
>> > Lookup ,  in the dictionary.   It is a function.
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > On Wednesday, March 4, 2015, stephen barncard <
>> > stephenrevoluti...@barncard.com > wrote:
>> >
>> >> On Wed, Mar 4, 2015 at 10:34 AM, Terence Heaford
>> 
>> >> >
>> >> wrote:
>> >>
>> >>> put 0,0,300,200 into tPrintRect
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> why no quotes around the comma delimited list?
>> >>
>> >> --
>> >> Stephen Barncard - Sebastopol Ca. USA - Deeds Not Words
>> >> ___
>> >> use-livecode mailing list
>> >> use-livecode@lists.runrev.com  
>> >> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your
>> >> subscription preferences:
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-- 
Jacqueline Landman Gay | jac...@hyperactivesw.com
HyperActive Software   | http://www.hyperactivesw.com

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Re: Printing in LC 7.0.3

[Terence Heaford]

It doesn’t.


Here are examples from the documentation for print

print stack "Output" into 100,100,450,410

print this card from 0,0 to the mouseLoc


All the best

Terry


> On 5 Mar 2015, at 15:26, J. Landman Gay  wrote:
> 
> So before I'd report this as a bug, I'd see If using the required syntax 
> fixes it.

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Re: Printing in LC 7.0.3

[Richard Gaskin]

Terence Heaford wrote:

> Will you report it please.
>
> Perhaps you will have better luck reporting BUGS than me.
>
> I’ve never had a reported bug resolved.

..except for this one:


Yes, it took them a while to reproduce it, requiring the lead engineer 
to work with you to figure out why the issue wasn't initially something 
they could see on their systems, but once they did it was fixed in the 
very next build.



As for the other three you've reported, their status varies:


Bug 12586 - LC 6.6.1 Crashes when creating a chart using field objects =
Status: RESOLVED CANNOT_REPRODUCE
Hanson's final comment notes the effort they put into reproducing the 
issue, and invited you to re-open the report if you find the issue 
persists:




Bug 11308 - Corrupt display when scrolling a data grid in OS X Mavericks
Status: RESOLVED NO_FOLLOW_UP
Similar case here, unable to reproduce and without follow-up from you 
they closed the report, inviting you to re-open it if you find the issue 
persists:




Bug 14061 - Printing a data grid using print card shows artefacts
Status: CONFIRMED
This one took some time to reproduce, and ultimately the team found that 
the issue appears to be specific to LiveCode under OS X 10.10, not 
present on other OS X versions.
The report was filed against an old version of LC (6.7.1 RC 2); have you 
had a chance to test this in 6.7.3?




> Out of interest and not to be to provocative, how are you supposed
> to migrate to LC 7 as suggested by Richard Gaskin when something as
> obvious as printing does not work?

Printing is indeed obvious and essential, and for that reason if it 
didn't work for most folks we'd expect to see posts here from them daily 
about it.


Have you considered the possibility that perhaps the reason we're not 
seeing such posts here is because printing is working well for them?


LiveCode is very flexible and provides a wide range of options for 
printing.  It may be some unique combination of options used in your 
scripts that's causing the very specific and evidently-hard-to-reproduce 
issues you've found.


Of course once an issue is identified, if it worked in previous versions 
and doesn't work in the current version is should be reported and fixed.


When reporting, if the team notes that they're unable to reproduce the 
issue and require more info from you to identify the cause, it's helpful 
to provide the requested info so that it becomes possible to fix it.


In this most recent case, I noticed that the source and dest rects are 
the same, so as far as I can tell you can get the same result with this, 
which seems to work well in LC 7.0.3 under OS X 10.7 (haven't tested on 
OS X 10.10 as I need that system to maintain parity with a client for now):


   print card from 0,0 to 300,200 --into tPrintRect

I would be interested to know if that doesn't fix it, and perhaps we can 
work with you to find another solution while we continue to coordinate 
with the team to see this resolved in v7.0.x.


--
 Richard Gaskin
 Fourth World Systems
 Software Design and Development for the Desktop, Mobile, and the Web
 
 ambassa...@fourthworld.comhttp://www.FourthWorld.com

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Re: Printing in LC 7.0.3

[J. Landman Gay]

If you actually tried it and it doesn't work then it's a bug.  But the doc 
examples aren't the same thing you're doing, they are using a direct reference 
while your code is putting a value into a variable. 

When I get to my Mac I'll try a few things. I'm AFK right now. 

On March 5, 2015 9:33:13 AM CST, Terence Heaford  wrote:
>It doesn’t.
>
>
>Here are examples from the documentation for print
>
>print stack "Output" into 100,100,450,410
>
>print this card from 0,0 to the mouseLoc
>
>
>All the best
>
>Terry
>
>
>> On 5 Mar 2015, at 15:26, J. Landman Gay 
>wrote:
>> 
>> So before I'd report this as a bug, I'd see If using the required
>syntax fixes it.
>
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HyperActive Software   | http://www.hyperactivesw.com

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Re: Printing in LC 7.0.3

[Paul Hibbert]

Terry (and List Users),

This bug is reported now:

http://quality.runrev.com/show_bug.cgi?id=14814

There is a sample stack attached to the report if anybody wishes to do further 
testing and add comments or observations.

From the tests I tried (after several suggestions from list members in this 
thread), I found the quotes made no difference, however, the [into pageRect] 
part of the print command does seem to be where the problem lies.

Removing the [into pageRect] part allows the defined area to print, then as a 
partial workaround, you can set the printMargins to determine where on the page 
the image prints, but, unfortunately you do lose the ability to print a defined 
area of the card into a different size area on print, effectively scaling the 
printed result.

Paul

> On Mar 5, 2015, at 9:04 AM, J. Landman Gay  wrote:
> 
> If you actually tried it and it doesn't work then it's a bug.  But the doc 
> examples aren't the same thing you're doing, they are using a direct 
> reference while your code is putting a value into a variable. 
> 
> When I get to my Mac I'll try a few things. I'm AFK right now. 
> 
> On March 5, 2015 9:33:13 AM CST, Terence Heaford  wrote:
>> It doesn’t.
>> 
>> 
>> Here are examples from the documentation for print
>> 
>> print stack "Output" into 100,100,450,410
>> 
>> print this card from 0,0 to the mouseLoc
>> 
>> 
>> All the best
>> 
>> Terry
>> 
>> 
>>> On 5 Mar 2015, at 15:26, J. Landman Gay 
>> wrote:
>>> 
>>> So before I'd report this as a bug, I'd see If using the required
>> syntax fixes it.
>> 
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> -- 
> Jacqueline Landman Gay | jac...@hyperactivesw.com
> HyperActive Software   | http://www.hyperactivesw.com
> 
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Re: Printing in LC 7.0.3

[Paul Hibbert]

Wow, WTG RR. Hanson confirmed this already!

Paul

> On Mar 5, 2015, at 9:54 AM, Paul Hibbert  wrote:
> 
> Terry (and List Users),
> 
> This bug is reported now:
> 
> http://quality.runrev.com/show_bug.cgi?id=14814
> 
> There is a sample stack attached to the report if anybody wishes to do 
> further testing and add comments or observations.
> 
> From the tests I tried (after several suggestions from list members in this 
> thread), I found the quotes made no difference, however, the [into pageRect] 
> part of the print command does seem to be where the problem lies.
> 
> Removing the [into pageRect] part allows the defined area to print, then as a 
> partial workaround, you can set the printMargins to determine where on the 
> page the image prints, but, unfortunately you do lose the ability to print a 
> defined area of the card into a different size area on print, effectively 
> scaling the printed result.
> 
> Paul
> 
>> On Mar 5, 2015, at 9:04 AM, J. Landman Gay  wrote:
>> 
>> If you actually tried it and it doesn't work then it's a bug.  But the doc 
>> examples aren't the same thing you're doing, they are using a direct 
>> reference while your code is putting a value into a variable. 
>> 
>> When I get to my Mac I'll try a few things. I'm AFK right now. 
>> 
>> On March 5, 2015 9:33:13 AM CST, Terence Heaford  
>> wrote:
>>> It doesn’t.
>>> 
>>> 
>>> Here are examples from the documentation for print
>>> 
>>> print stack "Output" into 100,100,450,410
>>> 
>>> print this card from 0,0 to the mouseLoc
>>> 
>>> 
>>> All the best
>>> 
>>> Terry
>>> 
>>> 
 On 5 Mar 2015, at 15:26, J. Landman Gay 
>>> wrote:
 
 So before I'd report this as a bug, I'd see If using the required
>>> syntax fixes it.
>>> 
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>> 
>> -- 
>> Jacqueline Landman Gay | jac...@hyperactivesw.com
>> HyperActive Software   | http://www.hyperactivesw.com
>> 
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Re: Printing in LC 7.0.3

[Terence Heaford]

> On 5 Mar 2015, at 15:47, Richard Gaskin  wrote:
> 
> Bug 14061 - Printing a data grid using print card shows artefacts
> Status:   CONFIRMED
> This one took some time to reproduce, and ultimately the team found that the 
> issue appears to be specific to LiveCode under OS X 10.10, not present on 
> other OS X versions.
> The report was filed against an old version of LC (6.7.1 RC 2); have you had 
> a chance to test this in 6.7.3?


This bug was reported on the 19 Nov 2014 and confirmed on the 24 Nov 2014 
against 6.7.1 RC2

We are now at 6.7.3 stable and the bug is still present.

LC 7.0.3 also has the bug.

So, originally I wanted to print part of a card containing a DataGrid but could 
not because of this bug.

I eventually gave up waiting and moved on to producing my own report card with 
fields and populated them with the info from the DataGrid and printed that.

I suppose the bug will at some point be corrected but I have moved on to 
another method that took far more time to script than I was expecting.

All the best

Terry
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Re: Printing in LC 7.0.3

[Terence Heaford]

> On 5 Mar 2015, at 15:47, Richard Gaskin  wrote:
> 
> Bug 12586 - LC 6.6.1 Crashes when creating a chart using field objects =
> Status:   RESOLVED CANNOT_REPRODUCE
> Hanson's final comment notes the effort they put into reproducing the issue, 
> and invited you to re-open the report if you find the issue persists:
>  >


Report submitted 2 Jun 2014 against LC 6.6.1 GM1

With this report, no doubting there was a crash because I actually submitted 
the Apple Crash Report and stated:
"Not sure why but LC crashes on mac os x 10.9.3 with this report:”
I wasn’t saying there was a bug but that LC crashed. I thought the crash report 
may have pointed the team in the right direction. Obviously not.
Since then I have moved on to Yosemite and not had that crash again.
Cannot say anymore really.
All the best
Terry


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Re: Printing in LC 7.0.3

[Terence Heaford]

> On 5 Mar 2015, at 15:47, Richard Gaskin  wrote:
> 
> Bug 12586 - LC 6.6.1 Crashes when creating a chart using field objects =
> Status:   RESOLVED CANNOT_REPRODUCE
> Hanson's final comment notes the effort they put into reproducing the issue, 
> and invited you to re-open the report if you find the issue persists:
>  >


Date of report 23 Oct 2013

Beginning of the report :

Please note this is Mavericks only but I had to put Mountain Lion because your 
system needs updating to include Mavericks.

Long gone as far as I am concerned

Never had the issue with later releases of OS X and LC.

All the best

Terry
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Re: Printing in LC 7.0.3

[Terence Heaford]

> On 5 Mar 2015, at 15:47, Richard Gaskin  wrote:
> 
> In this most recent case, I noticed that the source and dest rects are the 
> same, so as far as I can tell you can get the same result with this, which 
> seems to work well in LC 7.0.3 under OS X 10.7 (haven't tested on OS X 10.10 
> as I need that system to maintain parity with a client for now):
> 
>   print card from 0,0 to 300,200 --into tPrintRect

As previously posted by Paul Hibbert it’s the “into tPrintRect” where the issue 
is.

The script I posted was just a small example. Do not read anything into the 
dimensions used, they were purely an example.


All the best

Terry
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Re: Printing in LC 7.0.3

[Terence Heaford]

> On 5 Mar 2015, at 15:47, Richard Gaskin  wrote:
> 
> ..except for this one:


I would submit a bug report for the Text Labels of tabs debacle in the Tab 
Panel if I thought it would do any good?

I believe the bug report for this was started years ago and replicated on a 
number of occasions and has still not been resolved.

Richard, while you have got your ambassador hat on perhaps you could advise 
when it will be sorted out.

Surely, there must be some red faces at LC over this one? There seems a 
complete disinterest in sorting it.

A brief search through the Bug List shows that it has been reported many times.

You even posted on the Forum that UI issues need to be resolved to present an 
acceptable face for the product. (my words)

There’s clearly a major problem here.

Why can’t it be sorted?
Is it to hard?
Is it being left to LC8 and widgets?

To have a tab panel where all the text in the tabs is offset to the bottom 
cannot be acceptable for a standard control and please don’t suggest I script 
my own solution.


All the best

Terry
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Re: Printing in LC 7.0.3

[Terence Heaford]

> On 5 Mar 2015, at 19:00, Terence Heaford  wrote:
> 
> I would submit a bug report for the Text Labels of tabs debacle in the Tab 
> Panel if I thought it would do any good?


Richard,

Here is some info to help.

Bug 3076 - text in tab controls misaligned vertically
Status:CONFIRMED
Version: 2.6
Platform: Mac OS X
Reported:2005-08-22 21:46 BST by Richard Gaskin
Modified:2010-12-14 06:46 GMT

Bug 6206 - Tab Panels in Mac OS X have incorrect default text vertical position
Status: CONFIRMED
Version: 6.7.0 DP 4
Platform: Mac OS X
Reported: 2008-03-24 14:41 GMT by Lyn Teyla
Modified: 2015-03-01 21:04 GMT

Bug 7962 - Tabs not centered horizontally in tab button
Status: CONFIRMED
Version: 4.5.1 DP2
Platform: Mac OS X
Reported: 2009-04-15 09:26 BST by Richard Gaskin
Modified: 2010-10-21 15:41 BST

Bug 13798 - Yosemite UI: tab buttons should lose highlight on focus change
Status: IN_PROGRESS
Version: 6.7.0 GM 1
Reported: 2014-10-24 16:51 BST by Fraser Gordon
Modified: 2014-10-28 15:06 GMT
Desktop OS: Mac OS
OS X Version: 10.10 (Yosemite)

All the best

Terry
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Re: Printing in LC 7.0.3

[Richard Gaskin]

Paul Hibbert wrote:

> Wow, WTG RR. Hanson confirmed this already!
>
> Paul
>
>> On Mar 5, 2015, at 9:54 AM, Paul Hibbert  wrote:
>>
>> Terry (and List Users),
>>
>> This bug is reported now:
>>
>> http://quality.runrev.com/show_bug.cgi?id=14814

Thanks for submitting that report.  Not surprising to see a quick 
confirmation; these days since they've added staff I usually see new 
issues accompanied by a clear recipe confirmed within 48 hours, often less.


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 Fourth World Systems
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Re: Printing in LC 7.0.3

[Richard Gaskin]

Terence Heaford wrote:

>> On 5 Mar 2015, at 15:47, Richard Gaskin wrote:
>>
>> Bug 14061 - Printing a data grid using print card shows artefacts
>> Status:CONFIRMED
>> This one took some time to reproduce, and ultimately the team found
>> that the issue appears to be specific to LiveCode under OS X 10.10,
>> not present on other OS X versions. The report was filed against an
>> old version of LC (6.7.1 RC 2); have you had a chance to test this
>> in 6.7.3?
>
> This bug was reported on the 19 Nov 2014 and confirmed on the 24 Nov
> 2014 against 6.7.1 RC2
>
> We are now at 6.7.3 stable and the bug is still present.
>
> LC 7.0.3 also has the bug.

Thank for you testing against the recent versions.  The good news for 
all of us is that your test confirms that this isn't specific to v7.


While the DataGrid was never designed to support printing, because it's 
possible to print it I agree that this should be addressed.


Now that you've added your note there about having confirmed that it's 
in the latest versions, the bump on the report will help raise its 
visibility with the team.


--
 Richard Gaskin
 Fourth World Systems
 Software Design and Development for the Desktop, Mobile, and the Web
 
 ambassa...@fourthworld.comhttp://www.FourthWorld.com

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Re: Printing in LC 7.0.3

[Richard Gaskin]

Terence Heaford wrote:

> On 5 Mar 2015, at 15:47, Richard Gaskin wrote:
>>Terence Heaford wrote:
...
>>> I’ve never had a reported bug resolved.
>>
>> ..except for this one:
>> 
>> ..except for this one:
>
> I would submit a bug report for the Text Labels of tabs debacle
> in the Tab Panel if I thought it would do any good?
>
> I believe the bug report for this was started years ago and
> replicated on a number of occasions and has still not been resolved.
>
> Richard, while you have got your ambassador hat on perhaps you could
> advise when it will be sorted out.

Of the four reports I could find that you've submitted only one is 
outstanding, and the others either fixed by RunRev or abandoned by 
yourself, as you noted in your follow-up posts here.


Those of us who rely on LiveCode for our work participate in the QA 
process because it's in our own interest to do so.


For those interested in this text alignment issue in tab controls on OS 
X, here are the two relevant bug reports:


Bug 6206 - Tab Panels in Mac OS X have incorrect default text vertical 
position



Bug 7962 - Tabs not centered horizontally in tab button



With an audience as large as LiveCode's for a scope of OS coverage few 
companies have ever attempted, a bug DB can grow into an almost 
unmanageable beast over time, with a great many older issues either no 
longer relevant because of changes in the OSes, or sometimes because 
changes in LiveCode has already addressed the issue.


Trimming the bug DB has been a huge effort over 2014 and continues to 
this day.


Newly-submitted bugs are usually confirmed within a day or two at most, 
sometimes within hours, as Paul Hibbert noted with his report this 
afternoon.


Older issues have been worked through with two large-scope initiatives 
last year:


- Nearly 2,000 outstanding bugs and feature requests were completed, 
closed as "Fixed".  Not a small effort.


- The remaining items were less clear to the team in terms of their 
relevance and/or quality of the submitted recipes, so in October Ben 
took the initiative to send everyone who had outstanding bug reports in 
the DB a list of those reports with a request that we please review them 
in the most recent build of LC, and note whether the issue remains or 
should be closed.



In the period between Ben's emails to bug submitters and now, Apple's 
changes to their iOS APIs (mostly the 64-bit requirement but others as 
well) required urgent focus to deliver an update for iOS ASAP.  This was 
done, but it was a non-trivial task, and no doubt distracted them from 
things like the two reports noted above.


Please note that I tested the reports on text alignment in tab controls 
in OS X and noted that in one them on March 1.


Perhaps I could have tested it sooner, but to be honest this cosmetic 
issue may be important for some but it hasn't stopped me from delivering 
anything I need to deliver for my clients and customers, and not a 
single one of them has ever mentioned it to me.



Many such cosmetic issues have been slated to be addressed with the 
Themes architecture, noted on the Roadmap as dependent on the Open 
Language and accompanying Widgets architecture, which is in development 
now with the aim of delivering the first v8 DP very soon.


That said, I've raised this cosmetic tab control issue with the team 
this afternoon to see if a simple fix can be put into place before v8 
goes final.  I'll report back what I learn.



> ...and please don’t suggest I script my own solution.

A half-dozen of us have been suggesting Bernd's wonderful field object. 
 He already did the work on that.  Have you considered trying it?


--
 Richard Gaskin
 Fourth World Systems
 Software Design and Development for the Desktop, Mobile, and the Web
 
 ambassa...@fourthworld.comhttp://www.FourthWorld.com

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Re: Printing in LC 7.0.3

[Terence Heaford]

> On 5 Mar 2015, at 23:12, Richard Gaskin  wrote:
> 
> A half-dozen of us have been suggesting Bernd's wonderful field object.  He 
> already did the work on that.  Have you considered trying it?

I am working with Bernd (testing and making suggestions, at his request) and I 
think he is happy with the progress he is making with modTableField.

I shouldn’t really speak for Bernd but there are bug reports he has submitted 
that need addressing by the LC Team and if they could be addressed it would 
make modTableField better.

One quite big one is

Bug 14238 - backgroundpattern of a field out of sync if formattedHeight > 
roughly 32768
Status:CONFIRMED
Reported:2014-12-16 19:56 GMT by Bernd Niggemann
Modified:2015-02-28 16:18 GMT

Richard, you are aware of this one as you have commented.

This is a big issue to using modTableField because most people would want 
alternate coloured rows and those that have a lot of data (me included) could 
not use modTableField until this is fixed.

I couldn’t incorporate modTableField in a project unless I knew it was going to 
be fixed in the not to distant future.



All the best

Terry
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Re: Printing in LC 7.0.3

[Terence Heaford]

> On 5 Mar 2015, at 23:12, Richard Gaskin  wrote:
> 
> For those interested in this text alignment issue in tab controls on OS X, 
> here are the two relevant bug reports:
> 
> Bug 6206 - Tab Panels in Mac OS X have incorrect default text vertical 
> position
>  >
> 
> Bug 7962 - Tabs not centered horizontally in tab button
>  >


Yes but Bug 6206 was reported on the 24 March 2008 - Thats just coming up to 7 
Years.
and
Bug 7962 was reported on 15 April 2009 - Thats 1 month off 6 Years.

If someone considering moving to LC saw that User Interface defects can take 
this long to sort out then why should they.

I suppose by the same logic Bernd’s request for help via. Bug 14238 - 
backgroundpattern of a field out of sync if formattedHeight > roughly 32768 may 
also never get addressed and if someone had committed to modTableField they 
could well be up the proverbial creek without a paddle.

When the status of a Bug is CONFIRMED what is the decision process with regard 
to.

1. Whether or not it will be actioned.
2. When it will be allocated to an engineer.
3. When it will be actioned by.
4. If the decision is taken not to action, is the reporter of the Bug informed?
5. If the decision is taken not to action is the CONFIRMED status set to 
something else?
6. If someone has reported a Bug and no action is taken in a time scale what 
happens.
7. Does anyone actually look at Bug reports as old as those above?


All the best

Terry


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Re: Printing in LC 7.0.3

[J. Landman Gay]

On 3/6/2015 2:03 AM, Terence Heaford wrote:

If someone considering moving to LC saw that User Interface defects
can take this long to sort out then why should they.


I wonder what they'd think if they read this thread.



When the status of a Bug is CONFIRMED what is the decision process with regard 
to.


Here's my understanding of it:


1. Whether or not it will be actioned.


The status is updated so you know.


2. When it will be allocated to an engineer.
3. When it will be actioned by.


These are determined, as I mentioned before, on priorities set by 
considering criticality (crashes, for example,) the current unit of code 
being worked on, whether there is a workaround, and other factors I 
wrote about. There is no hard time frame, it depends on the bug and the 
circumstances.



4. If the decision is taken not to action, is the reporter of the Bug informed?
5. If the decision is taken not to action is the CONFIRMED status set to 
something else?


Yes. The status is changed in both these cases.


6. If someone has reported a Bug and no action is taken in a time scale what 
happens.


It sits there. You shouldn't see this very often any more since the team 
has adopted a better system internally for keeping up. You probably will 
see it with older bugs that have gotten lost in the thousands of older 
issues. If one of those is important to you, add a comment or, better, a 
test stack with a recipe. Contributing to the report pops it into their 
recent queue so they will see it.



7. Does anyone actually look at Bug reports as old as those above?


Probably not. As Richard mentioned, some of those bugs are so old it 
would be too time consuming to go through the list and test each one to 
ensure they are still valid problems; many if not most of them are no 
longer relevant. RR did send out emails to all bug reporters asking them 
to review their old reports and close any that no longer apply. I did 
that but I'm not sure how many other people did. Some of those ancient 
bugs were handled by engineers who aren't even working for RR any more, 
and those reports are probably in a dead queue somewhere. If you notice 
any of those, you should ask to have them closed if they are no longer 
valid. The team would thank you for it.



--
Jacqueline Landman Gay | jac...@hyperactivesw.com
HyperActive Software   | http://www.hyperactivesw.com

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Re: Printing in LC 7.0.3

[Terence Heaford]

> On 6 Mar 2015, at 19:44, J. Landman Gay  wrote:
> 
> Probably not. As Richard mentioned, some of those bugs are so old it would be 
> too time consuming to go through the list and test each one to ensure they 
> are still valid problems; many if not most of them are no longer relevant. RR 
> did send out emails to all bug reporters asking them to review their old 
> reports and close any that no longer apply. I did that but I'm not sure how 
> many other people did. Some of those ancient bugs were handled by engineers 
> who aren't even working for RR any more, and those reports are probably in a 
> dead queue somewhere. If you notice any of those, you should ask to have them 
> closed if they are no longer valid. The team would thank you for it.


It seems to me that as none of these old bug reports are likely to be reviewed 
and therefore not acted on, they may as well just be deleted and start again.

Pick a date any date and delete all the bug reports. Send emails to all 
interested parties informing them that bugs prior to a date are to be deleted 
and the system basically rebooted.

No need to audit them, just delete them and start again.


>> 2. When it will be allocated to an engineer.
>> 3. When it will be actioned by.
> 
> These are determined, as I mentioned before, on priorities set by considering 
> criticality (crashes, for example,) the current unit of code being worked on, 
> whether there is a workaround, and other factors I wrote about. There is no 
> hard time frame, it depends on the bug and the circumstances.

This is not helpful at all to those needing a bug sorted.

Some kind of meaningful guidance should be given.
This month, next month, next update.
This would also help LC focus on what they need to achieve.

Not setting some kind of target smacks of company that does not want to be held 
accountable by it’s users. 
“We can’t be held accountable if we do not make a promise”.

Before I retired our company motto was “CARE”. Customer Awareness Rewards 
Everyone.
You should always give a date you intend to do something.
Give updates as you proceed.
Speak to the person involved and explain why, if you are going to fail. Most, 
believe it or not, are understanding.



All the best

Terry


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Re: Printing in LC 7.0.3

[Richard Gaskin]

On 5 March Paul Hibbert wrote:

> This bug is reported now:
>
> http://quality.runrev.com/show_bug.cgi?id=14814

Thanks again for reporting this, Paul.

I just got notice from the bug DB this morning that this issue has been 
fixed, and will be in the next build.


Good work by all.

--
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 Fourth World Systems
 Software Design and Development for the Desktop, Mobile, and the Web
 
 ambassa...@fourthworld.comhttp://www.FourthWorld.com

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Re: Printing in LC 7.0.3

[Terence Heaford]

> On 10 Mar 2015, at 13:57, Richard Gaskin  wrote:
> 
> Thanks again for reporting this, Paul.
> 
> I just got notice from the bug DB this morning that this issue has been 
> fixed, and will be in the next build.


Excellent.

It would be good to here that the tab button text issue has been resolved as 
well.

It does feel strange that LC have jumped on the printing issue yet have ignored 
the tab menu issue that was reported YEARS ago.

I am not a conspiracy theorist.

All the best

Terry
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Re: Printing in LC 7.0.3

[Terence Heaford]

Just downloaded LC 7.0.4 rc1 and it’s not in this build.

All the best

Terry

> On 10 Mar 2015, at 13:57, Richard Gaskin  wrote:
> 
> On 5 March Paul Hibbert wrote:
> 
> > This bug is reported now:
> >
> > http://quality.runrev.com/show_bug.cgi?id=14814
> 
> Thanks again for reporting this, Paul.
> 
> I just got notice from the bug DB this morning that this issue has been 
> fixed, and will be in the next build.
> 
> Good work by all.
> 
> -- 
> Richard Gaskin
> Fourth World Systems
> Software Design and Development for the Desktop, Mobile, and the Web
> 
> ambassa...@fourthworld.comhttp://www.FourthWorld.com
> 
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Re: Printing in LC 7.0.3

[sebastien]

On 11/03/2015 18:26, Terence Heaford wrote:

Just downloaded LC 7.0.4 rc1 and it’s not in this build.

All the best

Terry


On 10 Mar 2015, at 13:57, Richard Gaskin  wrote:

On 5 March Paul Hibbert wrote:


This bug is reported now:

http://quality.runrev.com/show_bug.cgi?id=14814

Thanks again for reporting this, Paul.

I just got notice from the bug DB this morning that this issue has been fixed, 
and will be in the next build.

Good work by all.

--
Richard Gaskin
Fourth World Systems
Software Design and Development for the Desktop, Mobile, and the Web

ambassa...@fourthworld.comhttp://www.FourthWorld.com

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Hi Terence,

LiveCode 7.0.4 RC 1 was already built, and under test, at the time the 
bug fix for the printing issue was made.

It will be in 7.0.4 RC 2, which should come soon, next week.

Regard,

Sébastien Nouat
LiveCode Development Team

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Re: Printing in LC 7.0.3

[Terence Heaford]

> On 11 Mar 2015, at 18:34, sebastien  wrote:
> 
> LiveCode 7.0.4 RC 1 was already built, and under test, at the time the bug 
> fix for the printing issue was made.
> It will be in 7.0.4 RC 2, which should come soon, next week.

Thanks for the feedback.


All the best

Terry
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Re: Printing in LC 7.0.3

[Richard Gaskin]

Terence Heaford wrote:

> On 10 Mar 2015, at 13:57, Richard Gaskin wrote:
>>
>> On 5 March Paul Hibbert wrote:
>>
>> > This bug is reported now:
>> >
>> > http://quality.runrev.com/show_bug.cgi?id=14814
>>
>> Thanks again for reporting this, Paul.
>>
>> I just got notice from the bug DB this morning that this issue has
>> been fixed, and will be in the next build.
>>
>> Good work by all.
>
> Just downloaded LC 7.0.4 rc1 and it’s not in this build.

The report's status is "awaiting merge", and that was just yesterday. 
Given the time required for both the merge and build processes, it may 
be that this item is outside the scope of this morning's 7.0.4rc1, 
likely in the build after.


--
 Richard Gaskin
 Fourth World Systems
 Software Design and Development for the Desktop, Mobile, and the Web
 
 ambassa...@fourthworld.comhttp://www.FourthWorld.com

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Re: Printing in LC 7.0.3

[Terence Heaford]

> On 11 Mar 2015, at 18:32, Richard Gaskin  wrote:
> 
> The report's status is "awaiting merge", and that was just yesterday. Given 
> the time required for both the merge and build processes, it may be that this 
> item is outside the scope of this morning's 7.0.4rc1, likely in the build 
> after.


OK 

Thanks

Terry
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