Re: How to lose your work in a couple of clicks (dirty flag)
Ralph DiMola wrote: > I see this as a departure from other SW. I read "Don’t save" as > "Don't save now" not as "Don't save ever". I don't see those. When I make a standalone on a stack with unsaved changes, the options I see are "Don't Save", "Cancel", and "Save". > I just made my first non-mobile standalone(since 2012) just the other > day. And I was surprised to see the stack get closed and get > re-opened as JLG documented. At the time I thought the IDE went crazy > but every other desktop build did the same thing and I said to myself > "Hmmm, that's interesting...". Stacks don't get closed on mobile > builds. Maybe that is why I was confused. The MC IDE's Standalone Builder would build in-place, without needing to close and re-open. But this was because it was much more limited, since the LC SB allows options for making all sorts of changes to the stack file before building, requiring that the build actually happens on a copy and not the original you're working on. That said, as I noted here a few weeks ago some testing I'd done revealed that there's actually no problem within the engine with having two stacks open with the same name, but there is a limitation with the algo the topstack function uses which can produce odd results in an otherwise beautiful and simple system. http://quality.livecode.com/show_bug.cgi?id=18793 While that's under review, the current SB will close the stack you're working on, build the standalone from an invisible copy, then re-open when it's done. Yes, not how consumer apps work, but then again end-users aren't tasked with building standalones, so there are many ways the operations LC supports requires a different UI/UX than end-user software. The main thing is that the save prompt seems to do what we're asking of it, either saving or discarding changes according to the option we choose. >> Workflow question: under what circumstances do you find it useful >> to build a standalone that doesn't reflect the >current state of >> the stack? > > I see your point Richard and can’t come up with a very useful > scenario, but one could click the wrong button whilst in the middle > of a hot-fix panic. Not so much a point, but an honest question. We all do things differently, and sometimes there can be good reasons for folks wanting to do something that's different from how I do things. For myself, I have a habit of hitting the Enter key when I see that dialog, so I've managed to compensate for the risks introduced by my fat fingers. :) -- Richard Gaskin Fourth World Systems Software Design and Development for the Desktop, Mobile, and the Web ambassa...@fourthworld.comhttp://www.FourthWorld.com ___ use-livecode mailing list use-livecode@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
Re: How to lose your work in a couple of clicks (dirty flag)
The first time I saw that I got a little panicky too. So now I just always save before saving as standalone. Bob S > On Jan 24, 2017, at 12:57 , Ralph DiMola via use-livecode > wrote: > > I see this as a departure from other SW. I read "Don’t save" as "Don't save > now" not as "Don't save ever". I just made my first non-mobile > standalone(since 2012) just the other day. And I was surprised to see the > stack get closed and get re-opened as JLG documented. At the time I thought > the IDE went crazy but every other desktop build did the same thing and I > said to myself "Hmmm, that's interesting...". Stacks don't get closed on > mobile builds. Maybe that is why I was confused. > >> Workflow question: under what circumstances do you find it useful to build a >> standalone that doesn't reflect the >current state of the stack? > > I see your point Richard and can’t come up with a very useful scenario, but > one could click the wrong button whilst in the middle of a hot-fix panic. I > call this (and any time you have fat fingers) a "Hot Key Nightmare". Maybe > the "Don't save" button should read "Don't ever save" or eliminate the "Don’t > Save" option completely. > > If this is the way it is then so be it. But at minimum I think that LC should > either remove the "Don’t save" option or present an additional warning to the > user so newbies don't get bit and the more experienced user gets a chance to > reverse a "Hot Key Nightmare" so work(and time) is not lost. > ___ use-livecode mailing list use-livecode@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
RE: How to lose your work in a couple of clicks (dirty flag)
I see this as a departure from other SW. I read "Don’t save" as "Don't save now" not as "Don't save ever". I just made my first non-mobile standalone(since 2012) just the other day. And I was surprised to see the stack get closed and get re-opened as JLG documented. At the time I thought the IDE went crazy but every other desktop build did the same thing and I said to myself "Hmmm, that's interesting...". Stacks don't get closed on mobile builds. Maybe that is why I was confused. >Workflow question: under what circumstances do you find it useful to build a >standalone that doesn't reflect the >current state of the stack? I see your point Richard and can’t come up with a very useful scenario, but one could click the wrong button whilst in the middle of a hot-fix panic. I call this (and any time you have fat fingers) a "Hot Key Nightmare". Maybe the "Don't save" button should read "Don't ever save" or eliminate the "Don’t Save" option completely. If this is the way it is then so be it. But at minimum I think that LC should either remove the "Don’t save" option or present an additional warning to the user so newbies don't get bit and the more experienced user gets a chance to reverse a "Hot Key Nightmare" so work(and time) is not lost. 2 cents... Ralph DiMola IT Director Evergreen Information Services rdim...@evergreeninfo.net Phone: 518-636-3998 Ex:11 Cell: 518-796-9332 -Original Message- From: use-livecode [mailto:use-livecode-boun...@lists.runrev.com] On Behalf Of Richard Gaskin via use-livecode Sent: Tuesday, January 24, 2017 1:07 PM To: use-livecode@lists.runrev.com Cc: Richard Gaskin Subject: Re: How to lose your work in a couple of clicks (dirty flag) Ralph DiMola wrote: > 4) When presented with the "Save/Cancel/Don’t save" dialog, click on > the > "Don't save" option. > 5) Exit the IDE and you will not get the options to save your stack > > because the "Don’t save" option clears the "Dirty" flag. Unless you've made changes between the time the stack was closed and re-opened to make the standalone and when you later closed the stack, what should it do after you'd already told it to discard the earlier changes? Workflow question: under what circumstances do you find it useful to build a standalone that doesn't reflect the current state of the stack? -- Richard Gaskin Fourth World Systems Software Design and Development for the Desktop, Mobile, and the Web ambassa...@fourthworld.comhttp://www.FourthWorld.com ___ use-livecode mailing list use-livecode@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode ___ use-livecode mailing list use-livecode@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
Re: How to lose your work in a couple of clicks (dirty flag)
Ralph DiMola wrote: > 4) When presented with the "Save/Cancel/Don’t save" dialog, click on > the "Don't save" option. > 5) Exit the IDE and you will not get the options to save your stack > because the "Don’t save" option clears the "Dirty" flag. Unless you've made changes between the time the stack was closed and re-opened to make the standalone and when you later closed the stack, what should it do after you'd already told it to discard the earlier changes? Workflow question: under what circumstances do you find it useful to build a standalone that doesn't reflect the current state of the stack? -- Richard Gaskin Fourth World Systems Software Design and Development for the Desktop, Mobile, and the Web ambassa...@fourthworld.comhttp://www.FourthWorld.com ___ use-livecode mailing list use-livecode@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
Re: How to lose your work in a couple of clicks (dirty flag)
On 1/24/17 11:50 AM, Ralph DiMola via use-livecode wrote: I have been poking around in the IDE stacks and found this. I think it's a bug but wanted to run it up the ol' flag pole with the list first before I submit a bug report. Recipe: 1) Open a stack. 2) Make a small change. 3) Build a standalone. 4) When presented with the "Save/Cancel/Don’t save" dialog, click on the "Don't save" option. 5) Exit the IDE and you will not get the options to save your stack because the "Don’t save" option clears the "Dirty" flag. 6) Re-open the stack in the IDE and observe that your change(s) are not there. Expected result: User should be present with the option to save the stack when exiting the IDE. Observed result: The user is not asked to save the stack when exiting the IDE. When the "Cancel" option is selected the "dirty flag is not cleared as I would expect but "Don't save" clears it. I think this is wrong. Even if you don't choose to save at that moment The IDE should leave the stack marked as "dirty". I could see someone inadvertently losing a lot of work. This is documented briefly in the dictionary under "savingStandalone". When a standalone is made, the stack is closed and removed from memory. After it's built, it is re-opened. If you don't save beforehand, changes are lost. I think that's just how it has to be. -- Jacqueline Landman Gay | jac...@hyperactivesw.com HyperActive Software | http://www.hyperactivesw.com ___ use-livecode mailing list use-livecode@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
RE: How to lose your work in a couple of clicks (dirty flag)
Yep.. Yours, A slow learner -Original Message- From: use-livecode [mailto:use-livecode-boun...@lists.runrev.com] On Behalf Of Mark Talluto via use-livecode Sent: Tuesday, January 24, 2017 10:00 AM To: How to use LiveCode Cc: Mark Talluto Subject: Re: How to lose your work in a couple of clicks (dirty flag) > On Jan 24, 2017, at 9:50 AM, Ralph DiMola via use-livecode > wrote: > > I have been poking around in the IDE stacks and found this. I think it's a > bug but wanted to run it up the ol' flag pole with the list first before I > submit a bug report. > > Recipe: > 1) Open a stack. > 2) Make a small change. > 3) Build a standalone. > 4) When presented with the "Save/Cancel/Don’t save" dialog, click on the > "Don't save" option. > 5) Exit the IDE and you will not get the options to save your stack because > the "Don’t save" option clears the "Dirty" flag. > 6) Re-open the stack in the IDE and observe that your change(s) are not there. > > Expected result: User should be present with the option to save the stack > when exiting the IDE. > Observed result: The user is not asked to save the stack when exiting the IDE. > > When the "Cancel" option is selected the "dirty flag is not cleared as I > would expect but "Don't save" clears it. I think this is wrong. Even if you > don't choose to save at that moment The IDE should leave the stack marked as > "dirty". I could see someone inadvertently losing a lot of work. I agree that this could bite someone. I have never run into it myself because I always save before building the standalone. But, it could be argued that someone would want to save after building the standalone, forget to do so, quit the IDE and not be offered the save dialog again, and lose some work. Best regards, Mark Talluto livecloud.io canelasoftware.com ___ use-livecode mailing list use-livecode@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode ___ use-livecode mailing list use-livecode@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
Re: How to lose your work in a couple of clicks (dirty flag)
> On Jan 24, 2017, at 9:50 AM, Ralph DiMola via use-livecode > wrote: > > I have been poking around in the IDE stacks and found this. I think it's a > bug but wanted to run it up the ol' flag pole with the list first before I > submit a bug report. > > Recipe: > 1) Open a stack. > 2) Make a small change. > 3) Build a standalone. > 4) When presented with the "Save/Cancel/Don’t save" dialog, click on the > "Don't save" option. > 5) Exit the IDE and you will not get the options to save your stack because > the "Don’t save" option clears the "Dirty" flag. > 6) Re-open the stack in the IDE and observe that your change(s) are not there. > > Expected result: User should be present with the option to save the stack > when exiting the IDE. > Observed result: The user is not asked to save the stack when exiting the IDE. > > When the "Cancel" option is selected the "dirty flag is not cleared as I > would expect but "Don't save" clears it. I think this is wrong. Even if you > don't choose to save at that moment The IDE should leave the stack marked as > "dirty". I could see someone inadvertently losing a lot of work. I agree that this could bite someone. I have never run into it myself because I always save before building the standalone. But, it could be argued that someone would want to save after building the standalone, forget to do so, quit the IDE and not be offered the save dialog again, and lose some work. Best regards, Mark Talluto livecloud.io canelasoftware.com ___ use-livecode mailing list use-livecode@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
