RE: 64-bit App Store requirement
The CME of 2012 missed us by 5 days. This was estimated to be approximately the same as the 1859 solar storm. Lifted from Wiki==> "Telegraph systems all over Europe and North America failed, in some cases giving telegraph operators electric shocks. Telegraph pylons threw sparks. Some telegraph systems continued to send and receive messages despite having been disconnected from their power supplies." If we don't protect our power grid and electronics with Faraday Cages we are in for a serious butt whipping. The Russians still use vacuum tubes on military aircraft for CME/EMP immunity. It's not a matter of if, but when. Ralph DiMola IT Director Evergreen Information Services rdim...@evergreeninfo.net -Original Message- From: use-livecode [mailto:use-livecode-boun...@lists.runrev.com] On Behalf Of Bob Sneidar Sent: Wednesday, October 29, 2014 12:48 PM To: How to use LiveCode Subject: Re: 64-bit App Store requirement You think that is crazy, I just watched a commercial where you can take a stylus and hand write what you want, which is then converted to computer text. I have a much simpler, economically and environmentally superior way to accomplish this. It involves taking old wood scraps, smashing and pulverizing them, then mixing them with water and bleach and flattening the result out into great big sheets to dry. After that we can cut them up, and put some really dark thick dye into little tubes with a tiny ball bearing at the end, and then scrape the bearing over the slices of bleached wood pulp! I agree there are some disadvantages, but it will be extremely cheap, universally compatible, multi lingual, and extremely resistant to shock, loss of power, storage failure and electromagnetic pulses. Bob S On Oct 28, 2014, at 06:47 , Peter M. Brigham mailto:pmb...@gmail.com>> wrote: The idea that the same UI will work well on a little 5" phone screen and a 42" monitor is crazy. If Apple does this I will seriously consider moving to Linux. It used to be that Apple made stoves that you could just turn on and cook with, but increasingly they are making stoves that choose your cooking temperature and time for you and have hidden knobs the size of pushpins if you want to do anything different. It will take a really bad move on their part for me to go to a system where in order to cook dinner I have to collect the firewood, build a grill, and amass a collection of thermometers, but they look as if they might be getting there. ___ use-livecode mailing list use-livecode@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode ___ use-livecode mailing list use-livecode@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
Re: 64-bit App Store requirement
You think that is crazy, I just watched a commercial where you can take a stylus and hand write what you want, which is then converted to computer text. I have a much simpler, economically and environmentally superior way to accomplish this. It involves taking old wood scraps, smashing and pulverizing them, then mixing them with water and bleach and flattening the result out into great big sheets to dry. After that we can cut them up, and put some really dark thick dye into little tubes with a tiny ball bearing at the end, and then scrape the bearing over the slices of bleached wood pulp! I agree there are some disadvantages, but it will be extremely cheap, universally compatible, multi lingual, and extremely resistant to shock, loss of power, storage failure and electromagnetic pulses. Bob S On Oct 28, 2014, at 06:47 , Peter M. Brigham mailto:pmb...@gmail.com>> wrote: The idea that the same UI will work well on a little 5" phone screen and a 42" monitor is crazy. If Apple does this I will seriously consider moving to Linux. It used to be that Apple made stoves that you could just turn on and cook with, but increasingly they are making stoves that choose your cooking temperature and time for you and have hidden knobs the size of pushpins if you want to do anything different. It will take a really bad move on their part for me to go to a system where in order to cook dinner I have to collect the firewood, build a grill, and amass a collection of thermometers, but they look as if they might be getting there. ___ use-livecode mailing list use-livecode@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
Re: 64-bit App Store requirement
Peter M. Brigham wrote: > The idea that the same UI will work well on a little 5" phone screen > and a 42" monitor is crazy. Agreed, which is why I don't think anyone would do that. You can currently run Android apps in Chrome, and there's a side project to allow that in Ubuntu. Like Apple's Desk Accessories of yesteryear or more recently the Widgets implementation "inspired" by Konfabulator, not all UIs need to be run full-screen. Small apps can stay small. And like the apps we have today, not all apps are relevant on all devices. Some apps require specific hardware found only in certain device models, and we can expect that to remain a consideration when deploying to a more unified OS as well. Thinks like Evernote seem like a good fit for device adaptability. When we consider the range of screen sizes we need to consider on mobile alone, ranging from 4" to 13" or more, we're not that far away from this future vision even now. The only significant difference between a tablet with a docking keyboard and a Macbook Air with a detachable touch screen is that the latter offers much more horsepower. > If Apple does this I will seriously consider moving to Linux. Ubuntu's already headed down that road. They committed to that path before their Unity UI premiered. In fact, that's what Unity is all about: one scalable, adaptable set of UI conventions across all device types. The KDE project has been exploring this too: https://community.kde.org/KDE_Mobile Of course you'll still have control over the apps you choose to install. If the small size of the Calculator app offends, don't run it. :) -- Richard Gaskin Fourth World Systems Software Design and Development for the Desktop, Mobile, and the Web ambassa...@fourthworld.comhttp://www.FourthWorld.com ___ use-livecode mailing list use-livecode@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
Re: 64-bit App Store requirement
The idea that the same UI will work well on a little 5" phone screen and a 42" monitor is crazy. If Apple does this I will seriously consider moving to Linux. It used to be that Apple made stoves that you could just turn on and cook with, but increasingly they are making stoves that choose your cooking temperature and time for you and have hidden knobs the size of pushpins if you want to do anything different. It will take a really bad move on their part for me to go to a system where in order to cook dinner I have to collect the firewood, build a grill, and amass a collection of thermometers, but they look as if they might be getting there. On Oct 23, 2014, at 11:59 AM, Bob Sneidar wrote: > Used to could. There are some today that would challenge that premise. ;-) > > Bob S > > > On Oct 23, 2014, at 08:28 , Richard Gaskin > mailto:ambassa...@fourthworld.com>> wrote: > > The harder question is the UI, but if anyone can do that well it's Apple. > > -- > Richard Gaskin > Fourth World Systems > > ___ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode@lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription > preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode ___ use-livecode mailing list use-livecode@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
Re: 64-bit App Store requirement
> On 23 Oct 2014, at 14:45, Richard Gaskin wrote: > > You may just be ahead of your time. > > After all, it seem unlikely Apple will be shipping an iOS device that has > more than 4 GB RAM, and even if they did, with PAE it would only be logically > "necessary" if they expected individual apps to need more than 4 GB. > > True, it's more efficient to use native addressing, and having committed to > 64-bit gates it'll certainly help - but only very modestly, unlikely > significant enough to end-users to make it a requirement. > > So what could be driving this? I believe this is primarily driven by the desire not to need more RAM in iOS devices. Supporting both 32 & 64-bit apps on the same device means having the system frameworks for both in memory at the same time. When they can drop 32-bit app support in new devices it'll save on firmware update size and build, release and test work at Apple. Mark ___ use-livecode mailing list use-livecode@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
Re: 64-bit App Store requirement
Hi john, Thanks for your question. We were made aware of this earlier in the week and after reading the information available it seems we'll need to provide a package with both a 32 and 64 bit version of the app. Compiling our engine for 64 arm will be relatively straightforward so adding support for this by February will not be a problem. Warm regards, Ben On Thursday, October 23, 2014, John Brozycki wrote: > Recently read the Ars Technica article “Apple: Beginning February 2015, > App Store submissions need to be 64-bit”: > > > http://arstechnica.com/apple/2014/10/apple-beginning-february-2015-app-store-submissions-need-to-be-64-bit/ > < > http://arstechnica.com/apple/2014/10/apple-beginning-february-2015-app-store-submissions-need-to-be-64-bit/ > > > > ...and was wondering if anyone knew what RunRev’s plans are for this. I > don’t see anything about 64-bit in the roadmap. > > Regards, > John > ___ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode@lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode -- _ Benjamin Beaumont . RunRev Ltd LiveCode Product Manager mail : 25a Thistle Street Lane South West, Edinburgh, EH2 1EW email : b...@runrev.com company : +44(0) 845 219 89 23 fax : +44(0) 845 458 8487 web : www.runrev.com LiveCode - Programming made simple ___ use-livecode mailing list use-livecode@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
Re: 64-bit App Store requirement
Used to could. There are some today that would challenge that premise. ;-) Bob S On Oct 23, 2014, at 08:28 , Richard Gaskin mailto:ambassa...@fourthworld.com>> wrote: The harder question is the UI, but if anyone can do that well it's Apple. -- Richard Gaskin Fourth World Systems ___ use-livecode mailing list use-livecode@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
Re: 64-bit App Store requirement
Bob Sneidar wrote: > That would suck if OS X goes on the chopping block. What is better > than UNIX running on a PC chipset? I would imagine they'd stick with Unix. As we've seen with its cousin Linux, Unix foundations can be scaled well to handle everything from phones to supercomputers. The harder question is the UI, but if anyone can do that well it's Apple. -- Richard Gaskin Fourth World Systems Software Design and Development for the Desktop, Mobile, and the Web ambassa...@fourthworld.comhttp://www.FourthWorld.com ___ use-livecode mailing list use-livecode@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
Re: 64-bit App Store requirement
That would suck if OS X goes on the chopping block. What is better than UNIX running on a PC chipset? Bob S On Oct 23, 2014, at 06:45 , Richard Gaskin mailto:ambassa...@fourthworld.com>> wrote: I'll go out on a limb to put a date on it: I believe the big announcement at WWDC 2016 will be the end of both iOS and OS X, and the start of a new OS to replace them both. So right now they're quietly laying the ground work -- Richard Gaskin Fourth World Systems Software Design and Development for the Desktop, Mobile, and the Web ___ use-livecode mailing list use-livecode@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
RE: 64-bit App Store requirement
> I'll go out on a limb to put a date on it: I believe the big > announcement at WWDC 2016 will be the end of both iOS and OS > X, and the start of a new OS to replace them both. > > So right now they're quietly laying the ground work Richard, A few years ago you and I talking about this, and I agree. Apple will increase convergence devices in a way that won't intefere with its ability to make money, much like it introduced Carbon / Cocoa to keep developers developing for the Mac during that transition. We might get an announcement of a "neo-carbon" transitional period, but after that we will see one OS and likely an ecosystem that is more like the "curated" iOS than the "laissez faire" Mac OS. Best regards, Lynn Fredricks President Paradigma Software http://www.paradigmasoft.com Valentina SQL Server: The Ultra-fast, Royalty Free Database Server ___ use-livecode mailing list use-livecode@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
Re: 64-bit App Store requirement
Trevor DeVore wrote: > I was thinking the requirement was going to be for the MAS. You may just be ahead of your time. After all, it seem unlikely Apple will be shipping an iOS device that has more than 4 GB RAM, and even if they did, with PAE it would only be logically "necessary" if they expected individual apps to need more than 4 GB. True, it's more efficient to use native addressing, and having committed to 64-bit gates it'll certainly help - but only very modestly, unlikely significant enough to end-users to make it a requirement. So what could be driving this? When we look at the big picture we see heavy investments in LLVM/Clang, Swift, 64-bit uniformity, and other things that seem almost random when viewed individually. And all this is taking place in a business environment in which device types continue to both diversify and overlap in applicable use cases. It simply doesn't make economic sense to continue down the road of making a different OS for every device type forever. With a flexible, reconfigurable kernel, one could craft an OS that's scalable and adaptable for all device types. I'll go out on a limb to put a date on it: I believe the big announcement at WWDC 2016 will be the end of both iOS and OS X, and the start of a new OS to replace them both. So right now they're quietly laying the ground work -- Richard Gaskin Fourth World Systems Software Design and Development for the Desktop, Mobile, and the Web ambassa...@fourthworld.comhttp://www.FourthWorld.com ___ use-livecode mailing list use-livecode@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
Re: 64-bit App Store requirement
On Wed, Oct 22, 2014 at 10:19 PM, Monte Goulding < mo...@sweattechnologies.com> wrote: > > On 23 Oct 2014, at 1:12 pm, Trevor DeVore > wrote: > > > "The final goal (64-bit support) will be gradually worked towards over > the > > next few LiveCode versions as the engine gets 'decarbonated' (usage of > > Carbon APIs which do not have 64-bit equivalents removed)." > > > > Hopefully gradually is code for "sometime before February, 2015". > > I think it's only iOS apps at the moment. There shouldn't be much stopping > building the iOS engine as 64-bit. > Right you are. I was thinking the requirement was going to be for the MAS. -- Trevor DeVore ScreenSteps www.screensteps.com-www.clarify-it.com ___ use-livecode mailing list use-livecode@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
Re: 64-bit App Store requirement
Yes, surely that’s just talking about LiveCode, the new requirements are for 64 bit ARN code. > On Oct 22, 2014, at 10:19 PM, Monte Goulding > wrote: > >> >> Hopefully gradually is code for "sometime before February, 2015". > > I think it's only iOS apps at the moment. There shouldn't be much stopping > building the iOS engine as 64-bit. ___ use-livecode mailing list use-livecode@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
Re: 64-bit App Store requirement
On 23 Oct 2014, at 1:12 pm, Trevor DeVore wrote: > "The final goal (64-bit support) will be gradually worked towards over the > next few LiveCode versions as the engine gets 'decarbonated' (usage of > Carbon APIs which do not have 64-bit equivalents removed)." > > Hopefully gradually is code for "sometime before February, 2015". I think it's only iOS apps at the moment. There shouldn't be much stopping building the iOS engine as 64-bit. Cheers -- M E R Goulding Software development services Bespoke application development for vertical markets mergExt - There's an external for that! ___ use-livecode mailing list use-livecode@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
Re: 64-bit App Store requirement
On Wed, Oct 22, 2014 at 8:28 PM, John Brozycki wrote: > Recently read the Ars Technica article “Apple: Beginning February 2015, > App Store submissions need to be 64-bit”: > > > http://arstechnica.com/apple/2014/10/apple-beginning-february-2015-app-store-submissions-need-to-be-64-bit/ > < > http://arstechnica.com/apple/2014/10/apple-beginning-february-2015-app-store-submissions-need-to-be-64-bit/ > > > > ...and was wondering if anyone knew what RunRev’s plans are for this. I > don’t see anything about 64-bit in the roadmap. > The release notes for the 6.7 branch of the LiveCode engine were updated today with information about the 64-bit plan. https://github.com/runrev/livecode/commit/1549d6f09938a1005eabbbf65981b54ac95dff1d The relevant section is this: "The final goal (64-bit support) will be gradually worked towards over the next few LiveCode versions as the engine gets 'decarbonated' (usage of Carbon APIs which do not have 64-bit equivalents removed)." Hopefully gradually is code for "sometime before February, 2015". -- Trevor DeVore ScreenSteps www.screensteps.com-www.clarify-it.com ___ use-livecode mailing list use-livecode@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
