Re: Which version...
John Dixon wrote: Why are there different versions of liveCode being updated.. LC 7.0- updated 23 October 2014 LC 7.0.1 - updated 18 December 2014 LC 6.7.0 - updated 18 December 2014 LC 6.7.1 - updated 9 January 2015 Which one is considered to be the 'one' to use ? As with most software, version numbers indicate the evolution of the code base over time, with higher numbers reflecting a more recent build. Just as OS X 10.1 has been superseded by OS X 10.10, older versions of LiveCode are generally just that, lacking in fixes and/or features found in more recent versions. When a trinomial version number is used, the most common pattern employs this set of unique communicative roles for each element: majorChanges . minorFeatures . bugFixesOnly So the differences between 6.0.0 and 7.0.0 can be understood to be very significant, between 6.6.0 and 6.7.0 less so, and the differences between 7.0.0 and 7.0.1 can be expected to be comprised primarily of just bug fixes. There may be occasions when a point-point release may also include new features, but those are very rare. The 'one' so use is version 8, which will include all features implemented to date plus the Open Language/Widgets framework needed to complete the rest of the items remaining on the current Road Map. But version 8 does not yet exist. It's coming soon, but in the meantime we're in a transitional state between the old world of relatively minor changes in the engine and, as Tiemo calls it, the brave new world of an xTalk far more capable than anything before it. V6.7's focus was Cocoa for Mac, a very major overhaul to object handling and messaging that has on the whole gone surprisingly well. V7.0's focus is Unicode for all platforms and GTK integration for Linux. V7 includes all changes done in v6.7, making it the most feature-complete version available at this time. V7 is also the first version to deliver a 64-bit compatible Linux engine, making it essential on many Linux desktops and most Linux servers. When you see X.X.0 and X.X.1 versions, it's generally good to upgrade to the latter. Being a point-point release there are few if any new features meaning less likelihood of regression errors, but more useful is that its purpose is to deliver fixes for issues found in the X.X.0 build that weren't found during test of that version prior to release. As a general rule, you can expect the version with the highest version number listed as Stable here to be the most feature-complete: http://downloads.livecode.com/livecode/ All that said, V7 is measurably slower than earlier versions for many operations, understandable given the scope of Unicode and how that affects so many elements throughout the language. This speed difference is often negligible on the desktop, but coupled with a suboptimal boot sequence makes it not merely measurably slower on servers, but noticeably so. Since v7 is necessary for modern 64-bit servers and performance in general is recognized as a valuable feature for all platforms, the team is exploring options for optimizing v7 to bring its performance more in line with that of v6.7. I don't think any of us expected we'd have both feature completion and optimization in the same build, so the necessity of this optimization phase is appreciated even if it requires some patience. Given the tradeoffs between the two version currently maintained, v6.7.x and v7.0.x, those whose work is critically dependent on performance often use v6.7.x, while those who need Unicode use v.7.0.x. -- Richard Gaskin LiveCode Community Manager rich...@livecode.com ___ use-livecode mailing list use-livecode@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
Re: Which version...
On 15/01/15 20:31, Dr. Hawkins wrote: On Thu, Jan 15, 2015 at 9:49 AM, Richmond richmondmathew...@gmail.com wrote: On 15/01/15 16:34, Dr. Hawkins wrote: On Wed, Jan 14, 2015 at 11:56 PM, John Dixon dixo...@hotmail.co.uk wrote:5.5 if you want stability; it is late-beta quality. Some report stability on 6.6, apparently. 6.7 and 7.0 are late and early alpha quality, respectively. I wonder how you work that out. Is that using any standardised criteria, or is that just your opinion? Pretty much standardized. (although 5.5 should have been labeled release candidate or silver master). Alpha releases execute and function, but are expected to crash/explode/whatever. They are possibly feature complete, but the jury would still be out. Betas should generally function and be usable, but are still looking for bugs. The big ones are supposedly gone. Features are set for release (barring something catastrophic), andwon't be added or subtracted. An RC believes that all bugs are taken care of, and is only making sure of this. Features are locked, and the release number will actually change if features are changed. Why do I have a funny feeling that RunRev probably know that? Although, having said that, they did confess that they test their Linux versions on a horribly outdated version of Ubuntu. Richmond. ___ use-livecode mailing list use-livecode@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
Re: Which version...
On Thu, Jan 15, 2015 at 9:49 AM, Richmond richmondmathew...@gmail.com wrote: On 15/01/15 16:34, Dr. Hawkins wrote: On Wed, Jan 14, 2015 at 11:56 PM, John Dixon dixo...@hotmail.co.uk wrote:5.5 if you want stability; it is late-beta quality. Some report stability on 6.6, apparently. 6.7 and 7.0 are late and early alpha quality, respectively. I wonder how you work that out. Is that using any standardised criteria, or is that just your opinion? Pretty much standardized. (although 5.5 should have been labeled release candidate or silver master). Alpha releases execute and function, but are expected to crash/explode/whatever. They are possibly feature complete, but the jury would still be out. Betas should generally function and be usable, but are still looking for bugs. The big ones are supposedly gone. Features are set for release (barring something catastrophic), andwon't be added or subtracted. An RC believes that all bugs are taken care of, and is only making sure of this. Features are locked, and the release number will actually change if features are changed. -- Dr. Richard E. Hawkins, Esq. (702) 508-8462 ___ use-livecode mailing list use-livecode@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
Re: Which version...
On 15/01/15 16:34, Dr. Hawkins wrote: On Wed, Jan 14, 2015 at 11:56 PM, John Dixon dixo...@hotmail.co.uk wrote: Yes, but my question really is.. 'What is the reason for having all theses different versions being updated more or less at the same time ?'... Life was much simpler when you knew the version with the largest number stuck on the end of it was the one to use and the rest, as they say, were history ? being pedantic, but I will ask again... Which is the version to use ?... 5.5 if you want stability; it is late-beta quality. Some report stability on 6.6, apparently. 6.7 and 7.0 are late and early alpha quality, respectively. I wonder how you work that out. Is that using any standardised criteria, or is that just your opinion? Richmond. ___ use-livecode mailing list use-livecode@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
Re: Which version...
On 15/01/15 21:51, Richard Gaskin wrote: Richmond wrote: On 15/01/15 16:34, Dr. Hawkins wrote: Pretty much standardized. ... An RC believes that all bugs are taken care of, and is only making sure of this. Why do I have a funny feeling that RunRev probably know that? Because they're described in similar terms at the top of RunRev's Downloads page: http://downloads.livecode.com/livecode/ It's helpful to clarify that all bugs taken care of is both close to impossible and almost never happens with any software in the history of the industry. Instead, what's aimed for as a software gets close to release is that all *critical* bugs are addressed, and of course the only ones that can be addressed are those that are *known* at the time. With most projects, from Apple's OS X to Adobe's Photoshop to RunRev's LiveCode, minor issues may get put off for another version beyond the one being tested. Many here note that they only begin testing after release, and then report bugs no one else has seen. With complex systems in which the interaction of commands creates a combinatorial explosion of possible states, it's practically impossible to identify all possible issues prior to release. Awareness of this basic driver of all software engineering of similar scope can be helpful in encouraging us to test new builds with our scripts to ensure a new version will do what we uniquely require of it. It would be nice if all software shipped completely bug-free, but I've never seen such a thing. As a practical matter project teams tend to prioritize issues and address the most critical first. Although, having said that, they did confess that they test their Linux versions on a horribly outdated version of Ubuntu. Where did they write that? Throughout the forums and the bugs reports I've been following I've seen fairly regular references to Ubuntu 14.04 LTS, the most recent Long-Term Support release the project has. That's good to know :) Last I heard they were using a 2008 version. Would be grateful if you check back with the Mothership. Richmond. ___ use-livecode mailing list use-livecode@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
Re: Which version...
Richmond wrote: On 15/01/15 16:34, Dr. Hawkins wrote: Pretty much standardized. ... An RC believes that all bugs are taken care of, and is only making sure of this. Why do I have a funny feeling that RunRev probably know that? Because they're described in similar terms at the top of RunRev's Downloads page: http://downloads.livecode.com/livecode/ It's helpful to clarify that all bugs taken care of is both close to impossible and almost never happens with any software in the history of the industry. Instead, what's aimed for as a software gets close to release is that all *critical* bugs are addressed, and of course the only ones that can be addressed are those that are *known* at the time. With most projects, from Apple's OS X to Adobe's Photoshop to RunRev's LiveCode, minor issues may get put off for another version beyond the one being tested. Many here note that they only begin testing after release, and then report bugs no one else has seen. With complex systems in which the interaction of commands creates a combinatorial explosion of possible states, it's practically impossible to identify all possible issues prior to release. Awareness of this basic driver of all software engineering of similar scope can be helpful in encouraging us to test new builds with our scripts to ensure a new version will do what we uniquely require of it. It would be nice if all software shipped completely bug-free, but I've never seen such a thing. As a practical matter project teams tend to prioritize issues and address the most critical first. Although, having said that, they did confess that they test their Linux versions on a horribly outdated version of Ubuntu. Where did they write that? Throughout the forums and the bugs reports I've been following I've seen fairly regular references to Ubuntu 14.04 LTS, the most recent Long-Term Support release the project has. -- Richard Gaskin Fourth World Systems Software Design and Development for the Desktop, Mobile, and the Web ambassa...@fourthworld.comhttp://www.FourthWorld.com ___ use-livecode mailing list use-livecode@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
Re: Which version...
Richmond wrote: On 15/01/15 21:51, Richard Gaskin wrote: Throughout the forums and the bugs reports I've been following I've seen fairly regular references to Ubuntu 14.04 LTS, the most recent Long-Term Support release the project has. That's good to know :) Last I heard they were using a 2008 version. Would be grateful if you check back with the Mothership. As I noted, I've already seen many comments from many RunRev staff noting that they're using a wide range of Linux installs, most commonly right now Ubuntu 14.04 - here are a few reports in which their staff notes using very recent versions: http://quality.runrev.com/show_bug.cgi?id=13320 http://quality.runrev.com/show_bug.cgi?id=12774 http://quality.runrev.com/show_bug.cgi?id=12645 http://quality.runrev.com/show_bug.cgi?id=12617 Given the great many OSes they have installed on both metal and in VMs, I wouldn't be surprised if one from 2008 is among them. Heck, I keep an XP VM here for the few clients who like to live that dangerously. But if you search the bug DB or read the forums regularly you'll see that when RR staff mention a specific Linux version it's usually very current. -- Richard Gaskin Fourth World Systems Software Design and Development for the Desktop, Mobile, and the Web ambassa...@fourthworld.comhttp://www.FourthWorld.com ___ use-livecode mailing list use-livecode@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
RE: Which version...
I believe it's resources needed to make their new handling of UniCode work (also believe they are looking at ways of slimming down file sizes...) John Dixon wrote from LC 6.7 - 2.8 mb in size from LC 7.0 - 28.0 mb in size Where did all that bloat appear from !? - Some are born coders, some achieve coding, and some have coding thrust upon them. - William Shakespeare Hugh Senior -- View this message in context: http://runtime-revolution.278305.n4.nabble.com/Which-version-tp4687842p4687854.html Sent from the Revolution - User mailing list archive at Nabble.com. ___ use-livecode mailing list use-livecode@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
Re: Which version...
As far as I know (which isn't saying much): LC 6.6.x = maintenance of 'old generation' versions (e.g. carbon) LC 6.7.x = 'new generation' stuff like cocoa, excluding UniCode LC 7.x.x = all 'new generation' stuff, including Unicode LC 6.6 is for working on legacy stacks LC 6.7 is for those wanting 'new generation' features but who don't want UniCode LC 7 is the future and the base on which they are building LC 8 (and presumabely HTML5 too) So - as to which version you should use - depends on what you're working on! If you are close to releasing an app and don't need 'new generation' features then probably you are best with 6.6.x If you don't expect to release you app very soon and think that 'new generation' bugs are both necessary in your app likely to have been ironed out by the time you launch your app then I would say go with 7.x.x Unless there is some reason why you don't want the new way LC supports UniCode, in which case go with 6.7.x Dave - Some are born coders, some achieve coding, and some have coding thrust upon them. - William Shakespeare Hugh Senior -- View this message in context: http://runtime-revolution.278305.n4.nabble.com/Which-version-tp4687842p4687852.html Sent from the Revolution - User mailing list archive at Nabble.com. ___ use-livecode mailing list use-livecode@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
RE: Which version...
Just made a standalone for a stack I'm working on... from LC 6.7 - 2.8 mb in size from LC 7.0 - 28.0 mb in size Where did all that bloat appear from !? Dixie Date: Thu, 15 Jan 2015 02:37:28 -0800 From: d...@applicationinsight.com To: use-revolut...@lists.runrev.com Subject: Re: Which version... As far as I know (which isn't saying much): LC 6.6.x = maintenance of 'old generation' versions (e.g. carbon) LC 6.7.x = 'new generation' stuff like cocoa, excluding UniCode LC 7.x.x = all 'new generation' stuff, including Unicode LC 6.6 is for working on legacy stacks LC 6.7 is for those wanting 'new generation' features but who don't want UniCode LC 7 is the future and the base on which they are building LC 8 (and presumabely HTML5 too) So - as to which version you should use - depends on what you're working on! If you are close to releasing an app and don't need 'new generation' features then probably you are best with 6.6.x If you don't expect to release you app very soon and think that 'new generation' bugs are both necessary in your app likely to have been ironed out by the time you launch your app then I would say go with 7.x.x Unless there is some reason why you don't want the new way LC supports UniCode, in which case go with 6.7.x Dave - Some are born coders, some achieve coding, and some have coding thrust upon them. - William Shakespeare Hugh Senior -- View this message in context: http://runtime-revolution.278305.n4.nabble.com/Which-version-tp4687842p4687852.html Sent from the Revolution - User mailing list archive at Nabble.com. ___ use-livecode mailing list use-livecode@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode ___ use-livecode mailing list use-livecode@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
Re: Which version...
There seems to be another oddity, which is that I just found out that when you report a bug, you’re currently asked which of three or four versions of 7.0.1 you have - but when I look at the version I’m actually using, there’s no reference in the ‘About’ box to any of these versions! FWIW I think this level of confusion about versions is counterproductive. Graham On 15 Jan 2015, at 09:12, Tiemo Hollmann TB toolb...@kestner.de wrote: Hi John, the 7.x line is the new world, based on cocoa, full unicode support, etc. which will developed further on. The 6.x line is the old world without full Unicode support and is just maintained from runrev a little further for the old school guys (like me), who can't switch to the new world (yet) Tiemo -Ursprüngliche Nachricht- Von: use-livecode [mailto:use-livecode-boun...@lists.runrev.com] Im Auftrag von John Dixon Gesendet: Donnerstag, 15. Januar 2015 08:57 An: How to use LiveCode Betreff: RE: Which version... Hi Dave, Yes, but my question really is.. 'What is the reason for having all theses different versions being updated more or less at the same time ?'... Life was much simpler when you knew the version with the largest number stuck on the end of it was the one to use and the rest, as they say, were history ? being pedantic, but I will ask again... Which is the version to use ?... Dixie Date: Wed, 14 Jan 2015 23:47:31 -0800 From: d...@applicationinsight.com To: use-revolut...@lists.runrev.com Subject: Re: Which version... Hi John I do know that on the 5th of January Frazer put out community 6.7.1 for Windows again because the installer wasn't working properly - and I could add LC 6.7.2 to your list which also is dated on the 9th... ___ use-livecode mailing list use-livecode@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode ___ use-livecode mailing list use-livecode@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode ___ use-livecode mailing list use-livecode@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
Re: Which version...
On Wed, Jan 14, 2015 at 11:56 PM, John Dixon dixo...@hotmail.co.uk wrote: Yes, but my question really is.. 'What is the reason for having all theses different versions being updated more or less at the same time ?'... Life was much simpler when you knew the version with the largest number stuck on the end of it was the one to use and the rest, as they say, were history ? being pedantic, but I will ask again... Which is the version to use ?... 5.5 if you want stability; it is late-beta quality. Some report stability on 6.6, apparently. 6.7 and 7.0 are late and early alpha quality, respectively. -- Dr. Richard E. Hawkins, Esq. (702) 508-8462 ___ use-livecode mailing list use-livecode@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
Re: Which version...
Hi John I do know that on the 5th of January Frazer put out community 6.7.1 for Windows again because the installer wasn't working properly - and I could add LC 6.7.2 to your list which also is dated on the 9th... - Some are born coders, some achieve coding, and some have coding thrust upon them. - William Shakespeare Hugh Senior -- View this message in context: http://runtime-revolution.278305.n4.nabble.com/Which-version-tp4687842p4687843.html Sent from the Revolution - User mailing list archive at Nabble.com. ___ use-livecode mailing list use-livecode@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
RE: Which version...
Hi Dave, Yes, but my question really is.. 'What is the reason for having all theses different versions being updated more or less at the same time ?'... Life was much simpler when you knew the version with the largest number stuck on the end of it was the one to use and the rest, as they say, were history ? being pedantic, but I will ask again... Which is the version to use ?... Dixie Date: Wed, 14 Jan 2015 23:47:31 -0800 From: d...@applicationinsight.com To: use-revolut...@lists.runrev.com Subject: Re: Which version... Hi John I do know that on the 5th of January Frazer put out community 6.7.1 for Windows again because the installer wasn't working properly - and I could add LC 6.7.2 to your list which also is dated on the 9th... ___ use-livecode mailing list use-livecode@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
