Re: Zen of Computer Programming

[Alejandro Tejada]

Hi René


René Micout-2 wrote
> 
> This was in France in 1993 !
> And it is not the really story...
> During his holidays in his granMother's house in French mountain
> "Pyrénées"
> he write 60 pages of math and algorithms. After his holidays he write the
> program in C++ on his computer...
> Sorry this page is in French :
> http://www.alquier.org/eerie/MagBesse/magb13/6.pdf
> 

Many Thanks for posting a link to this document!
Hmmm... so this legend was only a marketing
trick. Who could have know at that time?

I found interesting that this article starts talking
about the Quantel workstation.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Quantel_Paintbox
Look at this famous sample of work created
in a Quantel Paintbox:
http://queenvinyls.files.wordpress.com/2007/12/the-miracle.jpg

Quantel tried, without sucess, to stop Adobe
from selling Photoshop. Just like Apple is trying
to stop Samsung (their hardware partner) and
many others Tech companies have tried in their
moment: IBM vs. Compaq...

Al



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Re: Zen of Computer Programming

[Peter M. Brigham, MD]

I think this comes from neuropsych research, and the proposition is that it 
takes 10,000 hours to master a field, whether music, math, coding, painting, 
gymnastics, whatever -- because that's how long it takes to rewire the brain in 
a fundamental way. 10,000 hours is 5 years full time work, 40h/week, 50 weeks a 
year.

Genius -- that takes something extra, maybe a brain that's genetically suited 
to your field, plus something more mysterious There's a fascinating book by 
a guy name Doidge, called The Brain That Changes Itself, well worth reading. 
Nobody knows about what makes genius, though.

-- Peter

Peter M. Brigham
pmb...@gmail.com
http://home.comcast.net/~pmbrig


On Jan 9, 2012, at 8:48 PM, Pete wrote:

> I've read a statistic in various places that it takes 10,000 hours of
> practice to become a genius in some skill or other, always assuming you
> have the skill in the first place of course.
> Pete
> 
> On Mon, Jan 9, 2012 at 5:06 PM, Alejandro Tejada 
> wrote:
> 
>> Hi All,
>> 
>> Many thoughful comments and funny replies!
>> Thanks a lot for sharing your insights.
>> 
>> So it is completely possible that exists
>> programmers with skills like Mozart, who
>> according to his biographers, could
>> create a whole composition in his mind
>> and then, sit down to transcript it.
>> 
>> Then... a requisite for this "gift" should be
>> an extensive and intensive practical
>> experience in the programming language.
>> And, at least, Ten years or more of daily practice...
>> 
>> Al
>> 
>> 
>> --
>> View this message in context:
>> http://runtime-revolution.278305.n4.nabble.com/Zen-of-Computer-Programming-tp4279111p4280691.html
>> Sent from the Revolution - User mailing list archive at Nabble.com.
>> 
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> 
> 
> -- 
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> Molly's Revenge 
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Re: Zen of Computer Programming

[Pete]

I've read a statistic in various places that it takes 10,000 hours of
practice to become a genius in some skill or other, always assuming you
have the skill in the first place of course.
Pete

On Mon, Jan 9, 2012 at 5:06 PM, Alejandro Tejada wrote:

> Hi All,
>
> Many thoughful comments and funny replies!
> Thanks a lot for sharing your insights.
>
> So it is completely possible that exists
> programmers with skills like Mozart, who
> according to his biographers, could
> create a whole composition in his mind
> and then, sit down to transcript it.
>
> Then... a requisite for this "gift" should be
> an extensive and intensive practical
> experience in the programming language.
> And, at least, Ten years or more of daily practice...
>
> Al
>
>
> --
> View this message in context:
> http://runtime-revolution.278305.n4.nabble.com/Zen-of-Computer-Programming-tp4279111p4280691.html
> Sent from the Revolution - User mailing list archive at Nabble.com.
>
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> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your
> subscription preferences:
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>
>


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Molly's Revenge 
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Re: Zen of Computer Programming

[Alejandro Tejada]

Hi All,

Many thoughful comments and funny replies!
Thanks a lot for sharing your insights.

So it is completely possible that exists
programmers with skills like Mozart, who
according to his biographers, could
create a whole composition in his mind
and then, sit down to transcript it.

Then... a requisite for this "gift" should be
an extensive and intensive practical
experience in the programming language.
And, at least, Ten years or more of daily practice...

Al


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Re: Zen of Computer Programming

[Bernard Devlin]

It's all about change.  Who needs test-driven development when testing
is development.

On Mon, Jan 9, 2012 at 7:02 PM, Peter M. Brigham, MD  wrote:
> So the vendor makes him a deluxe pizza and the Dalai Lama hands him a $20 
> bill. After a moment he says, "Where's my change?" The vendor says, "Change 
> comes from within!"

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Re: Zen of Computer Programming

[Michael Kann]

Alejandro,

Now we know what Oetzi was doing in the Alps when he died.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oetzi

--- On Mon, 1/9/12, Alejandro Tejada  wrote:

From: Alejandro Tejada 
Subject: Zen of Computer Programming
To: use-revolut...@lists.runrev.com
Date: Monday, January 9, 2012, 10:59 AM

Hi all,

Recently I was talking with one of my students from
Macromedia FreeHand/Adobe Photoshop classes:
http://www.facebook.com/media/set/?set=a.2733273854751.2150939.1344437396&type=1&l=7917ab7ac2
and he asked me if the following was true:

"The best computer programmers could create a
flawless program without the need to run this
program in a computer."

Well, (I said him), I read about a software developer
named Bruno Delean who created his software namde
"Live Picture" in this way... but it's not common.

http://findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_m3065/is_n12_v23/ai_16090826/

"Live Picture's extraordinary performance is achieved by virtue of a
radical new concept/technology called FITS
(Functional Interpolating Transformation System), which was developed
by Bruno Delean of Toulouse, France-based FITS Imaging.
Legend has it that Delean wrote all of the FITS code by hand during a
five-year sojourn in the French Alps, praticing a sort of Zen development.
He's since come down from the mountain with a truly unique program."

My question to all of you is,

How many developers you know that could create almost flawless
programs without running and debugging?

What is their special gift?

Thanks in advance!

Al

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Re: Zen of Computer Programming

[Peter M. Brigham, MD]

On Jan 9, 2012, at 12:12 PM, Scott Rossi wrote:

> I can't answer your question (my software has plenty of flaws), but I can
> offer this:
> 
> Recently, the Dalai Lama went into a pizza shop and asked, "Can you make me
> one with everything?"

The rest of the joke goes:

So the vendor makes him a deluxe pizza and the Dalai Lama hands him a $20 bill. 
After a moment he says, "Where's my change?" The vendor says, "Change comes 
from within!"

-- Peter

Peter M. Brigham
pmb...@gmail.com
http://home.comcast.net/~pmbrig



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Re: Zen of Computer Programming

[Bob Sneidar]

Too funny!

Bob


On Jan 9, 2012, at 9:34 AM, Colin Holgate wrote:

> You get that joke. I get that joke. The Dalai Lama doesn't though:
> 
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GogjFO8GNEo
> 
> 
> On Jan 9, 2012, at 12:12 PM, Scott Rossi wrote:
> 
>>> Recently, the Dalai Lama went into a pizza shop and asked, "Can you make me
>> one with everything?"
> 
> 
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Re: Zen of Computer Programming

[René Micout]

This was in France in 1993 !
And it is not the really story...
During his holidays in his granMother's house in French mountain "Pyrénées"
he write 60 pages of math and algorithms. After his holidays he write the 
program in C++ on his computer...
Sorry this page is in French :
http://www.alquier.org/eerie/MagBesse/magb13/6.pdf

Le 9 janv. 2012 à 17:59, Alejandro Tejada a écrit :

> Hi all,
> 
> Recently I was talking with one of my students from
> Macromedia FreeHand/Adobe Photoshop classes:
> http://www.facebook.com/media/set/?set=a.2733273854751.2150939.1344437396&type=1&l=7917ab7ac2
> and he asked me if the following was true:
> 
> "The best computer programmers could create a
> flawless program without the need to run this
> program in a computer."
> 
> Well, (I said him), I read about a software developer
> named Bruno Delean who created his software namde
> "Live Picture" in this way... but it's not common.
> 
> http://findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_m3065/is_n12_v23/ai_16090826/
> 
> "Live Picture's extraordinary performance is achieved by virtue of a
> radical new concept/technology called FITS
> (Functional Interpolating Transformation System), which was developed
> by Bruno Delean of Toulouse, France-based FITS Imaging.
> Legend has it that Delean wrote all of the FITS code by hand during a
> five-year sojourn in the French Alps, praticing a sort of Zen development.
> He's since come down from the mountain with a truly unique program."
> 
> My question to all of you is,
> 
> How many developers you know that could create almost flawless
> programs without running and debugging?
> 
> What is their special gift?
> 
> Thanks in advance!
> 
> Al
> 
> --
> View this message in context: 
> http://runtime-revolution.278305.n4.nabble.com/Zen-of-Computer-Programming-tp4279111p4279111.html
> Sent from the Revolution - User mailing list archive at Nabble.com.
> 
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> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription 
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Re: Zen of Computer Programming

[Colin Holgate]

You get that joke. I get that joke. The Dalai Lama doesn't though:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GogjFO8GNEo


On Jan 9, 2012, at 12:12 PM, Scott Rossi wrote:

> >Recently, the Dalai Lama went into a pizza shop and asked, "Can you make me
> one with everything?"


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Re: Zen of Computer Programming

[Bob Sneidar]

Hmmm... I am not sure that I agree with this. Doesn't the whole thing beg the 
question, what do you mean by "the best programmers"? Just because someone has 
a kind of photographic memory that others do not possess, does not necessarily 
make him a good programmer in my opinion. He might just produce a flawless 
piece of digital crap for all you know, something that has no bugs but does 
nothing anyone needs or wants, or else does not do it in a way that is very 
intuitive to the lesser of the species, namely people like me. 

Also, consider the statement, "Legend has it that Delean wrote all of the FITS 
code by hand during a five-year sojourn in the French Alps, practicing a sort 
of Zen development. He's since come down from the mountain with a truly unique 
program." Well which is it? Did he actually do it, or is it the stuff of 
"Legend"? Is there any way to verify this? Could it just be brilliant PR? 

I suppose a highly functioning autism could produce this phenomenon in theory, 
but I don't think that someone who has it would be the best choice for 
producing software of general use. Just my opinion though. In other words, I've 
got me dou'ts. 

Bob


On Jan 9, 2012, at 8:59 AM, Alejandro Tejada wrote:

> Hi all,
> 
> Recently I was talking with one of my students from
> Macromedia FreeHand/Adobe Photoshop classes:
> http://www.facebook.com/media/set/?set=a.2733273854751.2150939.1344437396&type=1&l=7917ab7ac2
> and he asked me if the following was true:
> 
> "The best computer programmers could create a
> flawless program without the need to run this
> program in a computer."
> 
> Well, (I said him), I read about a software developer
> named Bruno Delean who created his software namde
> "Live Picture" in this way... but it's not common.
> 
> http://findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_m3065/is_n12_v23/ai_16090826/
> 
> "Live Picture's extraordinary performance is achieved by virtue of a
> radical new concept/technology called FITS
> (Functional Interpolating Transformation System), which was developed
> by Bruno Delean of Toulouse, France-based FITS Imaging.
> 
> 
> My question to all of you is,
> 
> How many developers you know that could create almost flawless
> programs without running and debugging?
> 
> What is their special gift?
> 
> Thanks in advance!
> 
> Al
> 
> --
> View this message in context: 
> http://runtime-revolution.278305.n4.nabble.com/Zen-of-Computer-Programming-tp4279111p4279111.html
> Sent from the Revolution - User mailing list archive at Nabble.com.
> 
> ___
> use-livecode mailing list
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> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription 
> preferences:
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Re: Zen of Computer Programming

[Ken Corey]

I've been programming for a good long time now and I've only known one 
or two that could likely do it, but if I'm the one writing the 
paychecks, I'd *never* have paid them long enough to wrap their heads 
around the problem to do so.


I've known lots of good programmers who got close enough, and were fast 
enough at debugging so it /seemed/ to be almost perfect, which I would 
have been willing to pay for.


I've always believed in the project triangle:

Pick any two:

Cheap

Fast  Good

(http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Project_triangle)

-Ken

On 09/01/2012 16:59, Alejandro Tejada wrote:

Hi all,

Recently I was talking with one of my students from
Macromedia FreeHand/Adobe Photoshop classes:
http://www.facebook.com/media/set/?set=a.2733273854751.2150939.1344437396&type=1&l=7917ab7ac2
and he asked me if the following was true:

"The best computer programmers could create a
flawless program without the need to run this
program in a computer."

Well, (I said him), I read about a software developer
named Bruno Delean who created his software namde
"Live Picture" in this way... but it's not common.

http://findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_m3065/is_n12_v23/ai_16090826/

"Live Picture's extraordinary performance is achieved by virtue of a
radical new concept/technology called FITS
(Functional Interpolating Transformation System), which was developed
by Bruno Delean of Toulouse, France-based FITS Imaging.
Legend has it that Delean wrote all of the FITS code by hand during a
five-year sojourn in the French Alps, praticing a sort of Zen development.
He's since come down from the mountain with a truly unique program."

My question to all of you is,

How many developers you know that could create almost flawless
programs without running and debugging?

What is their special gift?

Thanks in advance!

Al

--
View this message in context: 
http://runtime-revolution.278305.n4.nabble.com/Zen-of-Computer-Programming-tp4279111p4279111.html
Sent from the Revolution - User mailing list archive at Nabble.com.

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Re: Zen of Computer Programming

[Scott Rossi]

I can't answer your question (my software has plenty of flaws), but I can
offer this:

Recently, the Dalai Lama went into a pizza shop and asked, "Can you make me
one with everything?"


Regards,

Scott Rossi
Creative Director
Tactile Media, UX Design



Recently, Alejandro Tejada wrote:

> Hi all,
> 
> Recently I was talking with one of my students from
> Macromedia FreeHand/Adobe Photoshop classes:
> http://www.facebook.com/media/set/?set=a.2733273854751.2150939.1344437396&type
> =1&l=7917ab7ac2
> and he asked me if the following was true:
> 
> "The best computer programmers could create a
> flawless program without the need to run this
> program in a computer."
> 
> Well, (I said him), I read about a software developer
> named Bruno Delean who created his software namde
> "Live Picture" in this way... but it's not common.
> 
> http://findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_m3065/is_n12_v23/ai_16090826/
> 
> "Live Picture's extraordinary performance is achieved by virtue of a
> radical new concept/technology called FITS
> (Functional Interpolating Transformation System), which was developed
> by Bruno Delean of Toulouse, France-based FITS Imaging.
> Legend has it that Delean wrote all of the FITS code by hand during a
> five-year sojourn in the French Alps, praticing a sort of Zen development.
> He's since come down from the mountain with a truly unique program."
> 
> My question to all of you is,
> 
> How many developers you know that could create almost flawless
> programs without running and debugging?
> 
> What is their special gift?
> 
> Thanks in advance!
> 
> Al



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Re: Zen of Computer Programming

[Mark Schonewille]

I know one who actually does it and one who could with sufficient time.

--
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Mark Schonewille

Economy-x-Talk Consulting and Software Engineering
Homepage: http://economy-x-talk.com
Twitter: http://twitter.com/xtalkprogrammer
KvK: 50277553

Become our partner in sales http://qery.us/1bq Start selling Color Converter 
today. 20% commission!

On 9 jan 2012, at 17:59, Alejandro Tejada wrote:

> 
> My question to all of you is,
> 
> How many developers you know that could create almost flawless
> programs without running and debugging?
> 
> What is their special gift?
> 
> Thanks in advance!
> 
> Al


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