Re: Unity on Windows 8

[Bob Sneidar]

Har!

:-)

On Sep 19, 2011, at 8:06 PM, Mark Wieder wrote:

> Bob-
> 
> Monday, September 19, 2011, 9:31:32 AM, you wrote:
> 
>> I wonder how many of these EULA's we would have if no human being
> 
> I couldn't resist... xkcd to the rescue...
> 
> https://www.xkcd.com/501/
> 
> -- 
> -Mark Wieder
> mwie...@ahsoftware.net
> 
> 
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Re: Unity on Windows 8

[Mark Wieder]

Bob-

Monday, September 19, 2011, 9:31:32 AM, you wrote:

> I wonder how many of these EULA's we would have if no human being

I couldn't resist... xkcd to the rescue...

https://www.xkcd.com/501/

-- 
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 mwie...@ahsoftware.net


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Re: Unity on Windows 8

[Richard Gaskin]

Bob Sneidar wrote:


Or it might mean that they have taken so much from Apple already, that to take 
more would almost certainly result in another ugly lawsuit and this time Apple 
has the money to fight it.


To clarify, Apple lost their suit against Microsoft on the grounds that 
the only protectable elements had been licensed, and the rest was deemed 
by the court to be "not original":





This outcome is similar in many respects to that of the Dutch court's 
ruling for the EU in the recent Apple vs. Samsung case, in which nine 
out of ten of Apple's allegations against Samsung were dismissed, 
including all of those involving the design of the physical device 
itself (so much for "blatant copying").


The only item upheld by the court was the bounce-scroll effect (note to 
LiveCode developers:  if you emulate this, be sure to only use it on iOS 
or fear the wrath), and even there the judge gave Samsung several weeks 
to roll out a patch to correct that (the injunction won't be enforced 
until mid-October, and only if Samsung fails to comment out those two or 
three lines of code).




--
 Richard Gaskin
 Fourth World
 LiveCode training and consulting: http://www.fourthworld.com
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Re: Unity on Windows 8

[Bob Sneidar]

I wonder how many of these EULA's we would have if no human being ever pirated 
software? I wonder what kind of copy protection we would have if no one ever 
copied an MP3? All you who have or ever have had copies of music you never 
bought and have chimed in on the evils of EULA's or copy protection, just stop 
for a moment and ask yourself how much you have contributed to the present 
situation. 

Lawyers pretty much run the world for the reason that people in general have 
created a market for them. If we want to place blame, let's start at the 
source, which is that crooked neighbor or the drug dealers down the street, or 
perhaps even ourselves. If we are unwilling to turn them in as our civic duty, 
if any of us have a tool he borrowed from his neighbor and never got around to 
telling him, then we might start looking in the mirror for the real culprit in 
the blame game. 

Let the flames begin! :-)

Bob


On Sep 17, 2011, at 10:57 AM, Richmond Mathewson wrote:

> On 09/17/2011 08:50 PM, Roger Eller wrote:
>> On Sat, Sep 17, 2011 at 11:17 AM, Richard Gaskin>> wrote:
>>> Richmond Mathewson wrote:
>>> 
>>>  I really don't mind if software companies want to rip ideas from each
 other
 
>>> It's been going on a long time
>> 
>> I think Apple has been borrowing/taking from Linux for even longer.  Where
>> did spaces, widgets, and even iTunes originally come from?
>> 
>> Now, they're into buying out the hackers as Apple employees and interns.
>>  That will surly curb jailbreaking, which IMHO is a terribly nasty term for
>> something that should be allowed.
> 
> If I buy something, surely it it then mine, and I can do whatever I like with 
> it?
> 
> I have a friend who keeps hens in his car (it is not used for driving as none 
> of the birds
> have passed their test yet). Nobody told him he couldn't use it for that 
> purpose; so he didn't have to jailbreak his car.
> 
> So "jailbreaking" is perfectly OK as the end-user (or, the OWNER) has been 
> unjustly
> imprisoned.
> 
>>  In Android, it is a simple built-in
>> checkbox to allow other sources.  It should be the end-users choice.
>> 
>> http://www.appleinsider.com/articles/11/09/16/well_known_iphone_jailbreak_hacker_visits_apple_campus_for_unknown_reasons.html
>> 
>> ˜Roger
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Re: Unity on Windows 8

[Bob Sneidar]

Or it might mean that they have taken so much from Apple already, that to take 
more would almost certainly result in another ugly lawsuit and this time Apple 
has the money to fight it. 

I have a saying: You know as much after you say "Maybe..." as you did before 
you said it. I imagine others could come up with 8 or 9 more maybe's and in the 
end we would still be no closer to MS's motives. 

The real motivator in my opinion is the fact that MS has these Software 
Assurance contracts that promise them free updates within a period of time. 
This means that MS MUST PRODUCE a "new" product at least twice within that time 
period (usually 3 years) or else those in the program are going to claim to 
have been swindled. Now there are only so many ways to do a thing, and precious 
few of those are going to be received as "better" than the ones before it. I am 
going to guess that under the Windows hood, not a lot has changed. 

So it's not about what is "best" for them anymore. It is about what is 
required. 

Bob


On Sep 17, 2011, at 1:15 AM, Richmond Mathewson wrote:

> I really don't mind if software companies want to rip ideas from each other, 
> but the fact that
> Microsoft seems to be shifting its attention to what is going on in the Linux 
> world, and away
> from the Apple world might mean that it is starting to perceive Linux as more 
> of a competitive threat than Apple.


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Re: Unity on Windows 8

[Judy Perry]

We spend a good week in class going over EULAs.  Quite eye-opening for 
them.  I'm especially fond of the nuclear power plant clause in the iTunes 
license agreement.


Judy

On Sat, 17 Sep 2011, Mark Wieder wrote:


Silly boy. Haven't read EULAs in a while, have you? Here as an example
is a snippet from Microsoft's terms of service:

"When you purchase software, you are actually purchasing a license to
use the software rather than purchasing the software itself."

or, so as not to play favorites, from Apple's EULA:

"The Products transacted through the Service are licensed, not sold,
to You for use only under the terms of this license"


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Re: Unity on Windows 8

[Peter Alcibiades]

Richard - you say

"Heck, you can't even deploy to Android Linux from LiveCode for Linux."

Thanks for letting me know, I was about to buy an upgrade to my Linux
subscription to allow me to do just that!  Oh dear.  Fortunately O'Reilly
seems to be having a half price sale that includes several Android titles,
so we will just have to dig up some other tool to get the job done.

Peter

--
View this message in context: 
http://runtime-revolution.278305.n4.nabble.com/Unity-on-Windows-8-tp3819871p3820951.html
Sent from the Revolution - User mailing list archive at Nabble.com.

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Re: Unity on Windows 8

[Richmond Mathewson]

On 09/17/2011 09:27 PM, Mark Wieder wrote:

Richmond-

Saturday, September 17, 2011, 10:57:36 AM, you wrote:


If I buy something, surely it it then mine, and I can do whatever I like
with it?

Silly boy. Haven't read EULAs in a while, have you? Here as an example
is a snippet from Microsoft's terms of service:


I have read a few, and generally feel a most unpleasant feeling at the 
base of my spine.




"When you purchase software, you are actually purchasing a license to
use the software rather than purchasing the software itself."

or, so as not to play favorites, from Apple's EULA:

"The Products transacted through the Service are licensed, not sold,
to You for use only under the terms of this license"



And they all seem to wobble on about laws in the State of Delaware, 
Maryland or California;

none of which are applicable outwith those territories.

YesWell that is just bullying, and I really wonder when 
Microsoft, for the sake of argument, is going to chase the 3 million odd 
Bulgarian PCs with Pirate Windows on them, and all the software 
subsequently downloaded?


Now; I have a MacMini and a G3 iMac, and they are both running Mac OS 
10.4; and, guess what; naughty Richmond has ONLY one DVD with Mac OS 
10.4 on it. Is this a crime? No more
than my making a backup for my own use of a DVD movie I own, or the 
de-regionised RIP I made of a North American DVD that I bought, so I 
could watch it on my bog-normal DVD player here in Bulgaria. As both of 
the Macs are mine, and as I am not an octopus, I can only use one of 
them at a time, all the end result is that I don't have to strain my 
back carting one Mac around with me from home to work and back again.


What is a crime is when I start stealing software, books, underpants and 
what-have-you.


What is also a crime is when I start making multiple copies of my DVDs 
(whether movies or software) and sell them off my wheelbarrow in the market.


Unfortunately, I come from a good family, and had a good education, so 
know the difference between morals, laws and bullying; the first two 
don't always coincide, and the last is always wrong.


Bye-the-bye; when my underpants wear out they get converted into 
cleaning cloths; I
wonder if this isn't breaking some sort of "change of use" agreement I, 
unintentionally

got involved with when I purchased them.

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Re: Unity on Windows 8

[Keith (Gulf Breeze Ortho Lab)]

Too funny!

-Original Message- 
From: Richard Gaskin

Sent: Saturday, September 17, 2011 1:33 PM
To: use-livecode@lists.runrev.com
Subject: Re: Unity on Windows 8

Mark Wieder wrote:


or, so as not to play favorites, from Apple's EULA:

"The Products transacted through the Service are licensed, not sold,
to You for use only under the terms of this license"


It's even better when Richard Dreyfuss does a dramatic reading of it:

<http://www.cnet.com/8301-30976_1-20068778-10348864.html>

;)


--
 Richard Gaskin
 Fourth World
 LiveCode training and consulting: http://www.fourthworld.com
 Webzine for LiveCode developers: http://www.LiveCodeJournal.com
 LiveCode Journal blog: http://LiveCodejournal.com/blog.irv

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Re: Unity on Windows 8

[Richard Gaskin]

Mark Wieder wrote:


or, so as not to play favorites, from Apple's EULA:

"The Products transacted through the Service are licensed, not sold,
to You for use only under the terms of this license"


It's even better when Richard Dreyfuss does a dramatic reading of it:



;)


--
 Richard Gaskin
 Fourth World
 LiveCode training and consulting: http://www.fourthworld.com
 Webzine for LiveCode developers: http://www.LiveCodeJournal.com
 LiveCode Journal blog: http://LiveCodejournal.com/blog.irv

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Re: Unity on Windows 8

[Mark Wieder]

Richmond-

Saturday, September 17, 2011, 10:57:36 AM, you wrote:

> If I buy something, surely it it then mine, and I can do whatever I like
> with it?

Silly boy. Haven't read EULAs in a while, have you? Here as an example
is a snippet from Microsoft's terms of service:

"When you purchase software, you are actually purchasing a license to
use the software rather than purchasing the software itself."

or, so as not to play favorites, from Apple's EULA:

"The Products transacted through the Service are licensed, not sold,
to You for use only under the terms of this license"

-- 
-Mark Wieder
 mwie...@ahsoftware.net


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Re: Unity on Windows 8

[Roger Eller]

On Sat, Sep 17, 2011 at 1:57 PM, Richmond Mathewson wrote:

> >On 09/17/2011 08:50 PM, Roger Eller wrote:
>  > I think Apple has been borrowing/taking from Linux for even longer.
>  Where
>  > did spaces, widgets, and even iTunes originally come from?
>  >
>  > Now, they're into buying out the hackers as Apple employees and interns.
>  > That will surly curb jailbreaking, which IMHO is a terribly nasty term
> for
>  > something that should be allowed.
>
> If I buy something, surely it it then mine, and I can do whatever I like
> with it?
>
> So "jailbreaking" is perfectly OK as the end-user (or, the OWNER) has been
> unjustly
> imprisoned.


The brainwashing is "You're not unjustly imprisoned, you're being kept
inside a 'secure' facility.  ;-)

What?  Those hens don't have a license!  Well, Apple will be serving chicken
soup for dinner!

˜Roger
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Re: Unity on Windows 8

[Richmond Mathewson]

On 09/17/2011 08:50 PM, Roger Eller wrote:

On Sat, Sep 17, 2011 at 11:17 AM, Richard Gaskin
wrote:
Richmond Mathewson wrote:

  I really don't mind if software companies want to rip ideas from each

other


It's been going on a long time


I think Apple has been borrowing/taking from Linux for even longer.  Where
did spaces, widgets, and even iTunes originally come from?

Now, they're into buying out the hackers as Apple employees and interns.
  That will surly curb jailbreaking, which IMHO is a terribly nasty term for
something that should be allowed.


If I buy something, surely it it then mine, and I can do whatever I like 
with it?


I have a friend who keeps hens in his car (it is not used for driving as 
none of the birds
have passed their test yet). Nobody told him he couldn't use it for that 
purpose; so he didn't have to jailbreak his car.


So "jailbreaking" is perfectly OK as the end-user (or, the OWNER) has 
been unjustly

imprisoned.


  In Android, it is a simple built-in
checkbox to allow other sources.  It should be the end-users choice.

http://www.appleinsider.com/articles/11/09/16/well_known_iphone_jailbreak_hacker_visits_apple_campus_for_unknown_reasons.html

˜Roger
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Re: Unity on Windows 8

[Roger Eller]

On Sat, Sep 17, 2011 at 11:17 AM, Richard Gaskin  wrote:

> Richmond Mathewson wrote:
>
>  I really don't mind if software companies want to rip ideas from each
>> other
>>
>
> It's been going on a long time


I think Apple has been borrowing/taking from Linux for even longer.  Where
did spaces, widgets, and even iTunes originally come from?

Now, they're into buying out the hackers as Apple employees and interns.
 That will surly curb jailbreaking, which IMHO is a terribly nasty term for
something that should be allowed.  In Android, it is a simple built-in
checkbox to allow other sources.  It should be the end-users choice.

http://www.appleinsider.com/articles/11/09/16/well_known_iphone_jailbreak_hacker_visits_apple_campus_for_unknown_reasons.html

˜Roger
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Re: Unity on Windows 8

[Richard Gaskin]

Richmond Mathewson wrote:


I really don't mind if software companies want to rip ideas from each
other


It's been going on a long time

Apple versus Microsoft: The top 20 stolen ideas of the OS wars


...and shows no sign of stopping:

5 things Apple borrowed from Android for iOS 5


All The New iOS and iCloud Features, And Where Apple Borrowed The Ideas From



The latter is particularly ironic, since after all the years Apple's 
been telling us how unsafe and unstable Microsoft systems are they now 
want us to store our data on them:


Apple's iCloud runs on Microsoft and Amazon services


;)


...but the fact that Microsoft seems to be shifting its attention to what
is going on in the Linux world, and away from the Apple world might mean
that it is starting to perceive Linux as more of a competitive threat
than Apple.


When you compare the cost of their TV ads defending themselves against 
Apple's attacks with the impact of radically dropped OEM pricing in 
Linux-friendly markets, I'd wager the MS spends far more combating Linux 
than they do Apple.


Ballmer's even said as much:

Ballmer: Linux Bigger Competitor than Apple




Of course, Richmond's agenda is, as usual, to poke the good people
of RunRev to really ramp-up their work on the Linux version of
Livecode . . .  :)


I'm with you on that one.  While there have been some impressive 
improvements in the Linux engine over the last two years, it currently 
costs twice as much as the Mac or Win engines yet doesn't have as many 
features as either.


Heck, you can't even deploy to Android Linux from LiveCode for Linux.

Hopefully that'll change soon

--
 Richard Gaskin
 Fourth World
 LiveCode training and consulting: http://www.fourthworld.com
 Webzine for LiveCode developers: http://www.LiveCodeJournal.com
 LiveCode Journal blog: http://LiveCodejournal.com/blog.irv

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Re: Unity on Windows 8

[Richmond Mathewson]

On 09/17/2011 11:41 AM, René Micout wrote:

Le 17 sept. 2011 à 10:15, Richmond Mathewson a écrit :


I really don't mind if software companies want to rip ideas from each other, 
but the fact that
Microsoft seems to be shifting its attention to what is going on in the Linux 
world, and away
from the Apple world might mean that it is starting to perceive Linux as more 
of a competitive threat than Apple.

Sorry Richmond ! But I think there is less risk of lawsuits from Linux than 
from Apple...
All predators know that it is better to address the lower...
;-)


Very well put.


Bon souvenir de Paris
René


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Re: Unity on Windows 8

[René Micout]

Le 17 sept. 2011 à 10:15, Richmond Mathewson a écrit :

> I really don't mind if software companies want to rip ideas from each other, 
> but the fact that
> Microsoft seems to be shifting its attention to what is going on in the Linux 
> world, and away
> from the Apple world might mean that it is starting to perceive Linux as more 
> of a competitive threat than Apple.

Sorry Richmond ! But I think there is less risk of lawsuits from Linux than 
from Apple...
All predators know that it is better to address the lower...
;-)
Bon souvenir de Paris
René


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Unity on Windows 8

[Richmond Mathewson]

Aaah. so Microsoft have given up ripping off Apple, and have started 
ripping off

Linux:

Hey: It's Compare & Contrast time again . . .  :)

1.  http://www.desktoplinux.com/news/NS4117062526.html

2.  
http://allthingsd.com/20110601/exclusive-making-sense-of-what-we-just-learned-about-windows-8/


3.  
http://www.appleinsider.com/articles/11/08/29/windows_8_design_to_radically_depart_from_mac_os_x_lion.html


I really don't mind if software companies want to rip ideas from each 
other, but the fact that
Microsoft seems to be shifting its attention to what is going on in the 
Linux world, and away
from the Apple world might mean that it is starting to perceive Linux as 
more of a competitive threat than Apple.


Of course, Richmond's agenda is, as usual, to poke the good people of 
RunRev to really ramp-up

their work on the Linux version of Livecode . . .  :)

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