Re: Upcoming MacOS 14.5 with software “notarization” requirements

[Tom Glod via use-livecode]

ugh great. just last night i was like..."you know ... i need more
s*** to think about." . and here it is.




Virus-free.
www.avast.com

<#DAB4FAD8-2DD7-40BB-A1B8-4E2AA1F9FDF2>

On Tue, Apr 16, 2019 at 2:01 PM Richmond via use-livecode <
use-livecode@lists.runrev.com> wrote:

> This is one of the reasons, having been given a swanky, new 2018 Mac Mini
> I have kept hold of my Polycarbonate iMac running Mac OS 107 and
> a Polycarbonate PPC iMac running MacOS 10.4, 10.5 and "Classic".
>
> Richmond.
>
> On 16.04.19 18:18, Bob Sneidar via use-livecode wrote:
> > I agree with most of what you said, but I've been getting alerts
> recently that certain apps are not optimized to run on Mojave, which is
> their way of telling me that some update in the near future is going to
> render them unusable. These are not old apps they are recently purchased
> apps.
> >
> > What enrages me so much (and I was once an avid supporter of the MacOS)
> is the wanton disregard Apple Dev seems to have towards end user's
> investments in software. A really big reason people tend to stick with a
> platform is the investment in software. Switching from Win to Mac means at
> least having to purchase VM software to continue using the old apps.
> Switching the other direction means ABANDONING the old apps and all the
> work invested in the documents produced.
> >
> > The elegant solution would be to give me the option of enabling or
> disabling notarization. From what I have read so far there will be no
> option. If that is the case, I will likely try to find some way of
> absolutely preventing any more Apple Updates for ALL of our users, and then
> never purchase another Apple product again, for myself OR for my company.
> >
> > And you know what really seals the deal for me? I have the strong
> impression that no one at Apple really gives a dam if I do or I don't.
> >
> > Bob S
> >
> >
> >> On Apr 16, 2019, at 24:03 , Curry Kenworthy via use-livecode <
> use-livecode@lists.runrev.com> wrote:
> >>
> >> BTW, I've already seen an LC app undergo notarization successfully, so
> not to worry; there will be a system in place for this particular hurdle
> just as with everything else.
> >>
> >> Best wishes,
> >>
> >> Curry Kenworthy
> >
> > ___
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Re: Upcoming MacOS 14.5 with software “notarization” requirements

[Richmond via use-livecode]

This is one of the reasons, having been given a swanky, new 2018 Mac Mini
I have kept hold of my Polycarbonate iMac running Mac OS 107 and
a Polycarbonate PPC iMac running MacOS 10.4, 10.5 and "Classic".

Richmond.

On 16.04.19 18:18, Bob Sneidar via use-livecode wrote:

I agree with most of what you said, but I've been getting alerts recently that 
certain apps are not optimized to run on Mojave, which is their way of telling 
me that some update in the near future is going to render them unusable. These 
are not old apps they are recently purchased apps.

What enrages me so much (and I was once an avid supporter of the MacOS) is the 
wanton disregard Apple Dev seems to have towards end user's investments in 
software. A really big reason people tend to stick with a platform is the 
investment in software. Switching from Win to Mac means at least having to 
purchase VM software to continue using the old apps. Switching the other 
direction means ABANDONING the old apps and all the work invested in the 
documents produced.

The elegant solution would be to give me the option of enabling or disabling 
notarization. From what I have read so far there will be no option. If that is 
the case, I will likely try to find some way of absolutely preventing any more 
Apple Updates for ALL of our users, and then never purchase another Apple 
product again, for myself OR for my company.

And you know what really seals the deal for me? I have the strong impression 
that no one at Apple really gives a dam if I do or I don't.

Bob S



On Apr 16, 2019, at 24:03 , Curry Kenworthy via use-livecode 
 wrote:

BTW, I've already seen an LC app undergo notarization successfully, so not to 
worry; there will be a system in place for this particular hurdle just as with 
everything else.

Best wishes,

Curry Kenworthy


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Re: Upcoming MacOS 14.5 with software “notarization” requirements

[Bob Sneidar via use-livecode]

I agree with most of what you said, but I've been getting alerts recently that 
certain apps are not optimized to run on Mojave, which is their way of telling 
me that some update in the near future is going to render them unusable. These 
are not old apps they are recently purchased apps. 

What enrages me so much (and I was once an avid supporter of the MacOS) is the 
wanton disregard Apple Dev seems to have towards end user's investments in 
software. A really big reason people tend to stick with a platform is the 
investment in software. Switching from Win to Mac means at least having to 
purchase VM software to continue using the old apps. Switching the other 
direction means ABANDONING the old apps and all the work invested in the 
documents produced. 

The elegant solution would be to give me the option of enabling or disabling 
notarization. From what I have read so far there will be no option. If that is 
the case, I will likely try to find some way of absolutely preventing any more 
Apple Updates for ALL of our users, and then never purchase another Apple 
product again, for myself OR for my company. 

And you know what really seals the deal for me? I have the strong impression 
that no one at Apple really gives a dam if I do or I don't. 

Bob S


> On Apr 16, 2019, at 24:03 , Curry Kenworthy via use-livecode 
>  wrote:
> 
> BTW, I've already seen an LC app undergo notarization successfully, so not to 
> worry; there will be a system in place for this particular hurdle just as 
> with everything else.
> 
> Best wishes,
> 
> Curry Kenworthy


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Re: Upcoming MacOS 14.5 with software “notarization” requirements

[Richmond via use-livecode]

"consistent scientific HIG again" . . . "scientific" . . . is not a word 
I would use about galloping subjectivity.


"a bit on the obsessive control, hard-on-the-eye schemes, and planned 
obsolescence" Yes, these are disgusting.
Not convinced about "hard-on-the-eye schemes" as they seem to be all 
over the place.


I have a 20 year old Pentium running Xubuntu Linux 18.04 merrily 
chuntering away in my school.


That machine could not cope with Windows XP, and, needless-to-say, it is 
a non-Macintosh machine.


So, as far as planned obsolescence goes I honestly don't see much 
difference between Apple
and Microsoft there beyond the fact that Apple have tied their OS to 
their machines which means they

really have got your arm round your back if you want their OS.

My remarks as to Windows being shoddy was in respect of its 
vulnerability to attack and viruses.


What i fail to understand is why there has not been a greater adoption 
of desktop versions
of Linux, as most Linux versions offer 32-bit versions, PPC versions and 
all sorts of possibilities that

probably go beyond most people's conception of obsolescence.

Richmond.

On 16.04.19 10:03, Curry Kenworthy via use-livecode wrote:


Richmond:

> The frightening thing about this is that Microsoft produce a
> fairly shoddy product, and as Linux has signally failed to
> displace Microsoft from world dominator, it will become
> ever worse and shoddier without any healthy competition.

So the only scary thing about Apple doing something potentially 
problematic is merely that it might make someone with shaky faith 
consider Microsoft? That seems to overlook the tiny step of 
considering the potentially problematic thing itself!


The Apple evangelism "cult" included memes using blackhat PR tricks 
and cognitive hacks. It's too fun to resist - go ahead and try the 
shoe on the other foot for once:


"Ah, having trouble with your Mac again? Yeah, that's what I love 
about Windows - everything just works!" :D


Which is very often true in either direction, depending on the 
particular trouble being experienced. In reality each OS has its 
annoyances. Personally I have no dog in the race - I started with 
Mac-first dev because of their excellent HIG research and principles 
which they would later abandon. Then switched to Win-first dev when 
Apple fled that previous research for a more "lickable" look, causing 
Windows UI to became more efficient and user-friendly for my own 
computing.


If Apple were to embrace consistent scientific HIG again and let up a 
bit on the obsessive control, hard-on-the-eye schemes, and planned 
obsolescence, I'd be tempted to go back to Mac-first. I use both 
Operating Systems and find an equal amount of enjoyment in providing 
solutions for both!


BTW, I've already seen an LC app undergo notarization successfully, so 
not to worry; there will be a system in place for this particular 
hurdle just as with everything else.


Best wishes,

Curry Kenworthy

Custom Software Development
"Better Methods, Better Results"
LiveCode Training and Consulting
http://livecodeconsulting.com/

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Re: Upcoming MacOS 14.5 with software “notarization” requirements

[Curry Kenworthy via use-livecode]

Richmond:

> The frightening thing about this is that Microsoft produce a
> fairly shoddy product, and as Linux has signally failed to
> displace Microsoft from world dominator, it will become
> ever worse and shoddier without any healthy competition.

So the only scary thing about Apple doing something potentially 
problematic is merely that it might make someone with shaky faith 
consider Microsoft? That seems to overlook the tiny step of considering 
the potentially problematic thing itself!


The Apple evangelism "cult" included memes using blackhat PR tricks and 
cognitive hacks. It's too fun to resist - go ahead and try the shoe on 
the other foot for once:


"Ah, having trouble with your Mac again? Yeah, that's what I love about 
Windows - everything just works!" :D


Which is very often true in either direction, depending on the 
particular trouble being experienced. In reality each OS has its 
annoyances. Personally I have no dog in the race - I started with 
Mac-first dev because of their excellent HIG research and principles 
which they would later abandon. Then switched to Win-first dev when 
Apple fled that previous research for a more "lickable" look, causing 
Windows UI to became more efficient and user-friendly for my own computing.


If Apple were to embrace consistent scientific HIG again and let up a 
bit on the obsessive control, hard-on-the-eye schemes, and planned 
obsolescence, I'd be tempted to go back to Mac-first. I use both 
Operating Systems and find an equal amount of enjoyment in providing 
solutions for both!


BTW, I've already seen an LC app undergo notarization successfully, so 
not to worry; there will be a system in place for this particular hurdle 
just as with everything else.


Best wishes,

Curry Kenworthy

Custom Software Development
"Better Methods, Better Results"
LiveCode Training and Consulting
http://livecodeconsulting.com/

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Re: Re: Upcoming MacOS 14.5 with software “notarization” requirements

[Richard Gaskin via use-livecode]

Richmond wrote:
The frightening thing about this is that Microsoft produce a fairly 
shoddy product, and as Linux has signally failed to displace

Microsoft from world dominator, it will become ever worse and
shoddier without any healthy competition.


If we limit our view of computing to desktop OSes, that's definitely true.

Microsoft had a 92% market share before more than a dozen jurisdictions
around the world found them guilty of multiple antitrust violations. 
Now after all these years of legal "remedies" from those trials, Windows 
still has an 86% share.


This may be a cautionary tale as we look ahead at new laws being 
considered to protect people from the de facto monopolies of the 
Information Industrial Complex, the big five that control nearly 
everything in the infosphere:  Facebook, Twitter, Google, Apple, and Amazon.


While we wait for laws to catch up to modern business, and reflect on 
the self-evident inadequacy of existing antitrust laws, let's step 
outside the desktop to look at the scope of modern computing today:


Phones w/Android Linux: 82%
Tablets w/Android Linux: 73%
Embedded systems w/Linux: ~80+%
Servers w/Linux: ~60+%
Top 500 supercomputers w/Linux: 99%

On the desktop, both Linux and Apple are niche players in a 
Microsoft-dominated world.


But beyond the desktop, Linux has become the de facto standard of modern 
computing.


If nothing else, being a developer in the 21st century increasingly 
means building client-server systems.  Familiarity with Linux is a 
valuable skillset that enables cloud services for your client software 
regardless which OSes those clients run on.


There's a reason Apple had a booth at the SoCal Linux Expo: hiring. They 
sell Macs snd iPhones to access data and services run on Linux server farms.


And the most popular OS on Microsoft Azure?  Ubuntu, of course.

--
 Richard Gaskin
 Fourth World Systems
 Software Design and Development for the Desktop, Mobile, and the Web
 
 ambassa...@fourthworld.comhttp://www.FourthWorld.com


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Re: Upcoming MacOS 14.5 with software “notarization” requirements

[Richmond via use-livecode]

The frightening thing about this is that Microsoft produce a fairly 
shoddy product, and as Linux has signally
failed to displace Microsoft from world dominator, it will become ever 
worse and shoddier without

any healthy competition.

Richmond.

On 15.04.19 19:52, Bob Sneidar via use-livecode wrote:

My opinion, unasked for as it is, this is just another bullet in the foot of 
Apple, and they don't have many toes left.

Bob S



On Apr 12, 2019, at 21:53 , kee nethery via use-livecode 
 wrote:

My understanding from conversations with people who should know is that apps 
that have already been approved by you on your macOS computer and are logged in 
your computer’s gatekeeper system to be allowed to run, will continue to be 
allowed to run when you update your OS. New versions and new apps will need to 
be notarized.

Kee Nethery

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Re: Upcoming MacOS 14.5 with software “notarization” requirements

[Bob Sneidar via use-livecode]

My opinion, unasked for as it is, this is just another bullet in the foot of 
Apple, and they don't have many toes left. 

Bob S


> On Apr 12, 2019, at 21:53 , kee nethery via use-livecode 
>  wrote:
> 
> My understanding from conversations with people who should know is that apps 
> that have already been approved by you on your macOS computer and are logged 
> in your computer’s gatekeeper system to be allowed to run, will continue to 
> be allowed to run when you update your OS. New versions and new apps will 
> need to be notarized.
> 
> Kee Nethery

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Re: Upcoming MacOS 14.5 with software “notarization” requirements

[kee nethery via use-livecode]

My understanding from conversations with people who should know is that apps 
that have already been approved by you on your macOS computer and are logged in 
your computer’s gatekeeper system to be allowed to run, will continue to be 
allowed to run when you update your OS. New versions and new apps will need to 
be notarized.

Kee Nethery

> On Apr 9, 2019, at 7:27 PM, Tariel Gogoberidze via use-livecode 
>  wrote:
> 
> Hi
> 
> It seems that as of  MacOS 14.5 all new and updated apps  would not run 
> without been “notarized” by Apple.
> 
> https://developer.apple.com/documentation/security/notarizing_your_app_before_distribution
>  
> 
> 
> https://www.cultofmac.com/618378/apple-will-soon-require-all-macos-apps-to-be-notarized/
>  
> 
> 
> Anybody on the list who “notarized” their Mac OS app or who knows what it 
> takes  ?
> 
> regards
> Tariel
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Re: Upcoming MacOS 14.5 with software “notarization” requirements

[Richmond via use-livecode]

"There will always"

reminds me of that James Bond film, "Never Say Never Again" . . . better 
be careful

with pronouncements like that.

Richmond.

On 11.04.19 г. 11:12 ч., Andre Garzia via use-livecode wrote:
People forget that speed and latency are not related. Solving latency 
on networked apps is tricky.


There will always be a place for Desktop apps (local apps on your 
computer I mean)


On 10/04/2019 22:53, Richard Gaskin via use-livecode wrote:

Paul Dupuis wrote:

> Of course this may all be a mute point if you believe the "industry
> analysts" that say that 5G networks will kill the market for local
> applications whether for iOS, Android, or desktop OSes and finally web
> app will be fast enough :-)

All networks can get faster, but I'm with Steven J. Vaughan-Nichols 
in not holding my breath for 5G to be anything close to the magic 
pony marketers are playing it up to be:


"5G or faux G?: Forget all those stories of 20 Gbps speeds and 1 
millisecond latency. 5G will never deliver performance like that — 
and anyway its time is still years away for most of us most of the 
time."

https://www.computerworld.com/article/3336119/5g-or-faux-g.html


EFF has a similar view:

"Enough of the 5G Hype"
https://www.eff.org/deeplinks/2019/02/enough-5g-hype

...and an alternative infrastructure proposal that will benefit 
existing devices as well as the someday-soon-no-really 5G access points:


"The U.S. Desperately Needs a 'Fiber for All' Plan"
https://www.eff.org/deeplinks/2019/03/us-desperately-needs-fiber-all-plan 





With or without infrastructure improvements, I expect mobile to 
remain a steady growth segment.  But by "steady" I mean only slightly 
more than half of Internet traffic, with laptops being most of the 
remainder.


If Job's metaphor of the "post-PC" era means phones are cars and 
laptops are trucks, observe that the most popular auto form factor in 
the US is the SUV - effectively, a truck. :)


We're now a decade into the "post-PC" era, and Apple stills sells 
Macs. Lots of them.  More than iPads, which have leveled off to 
negative growth.


It's not just developers who need full computers.  It's everyone who 
isn't just a grazer: every artist, every writer, everyone making 
presentations. Nearly everyone.  You can do those things on a phone, 
just not as well.  With your thumbs.


For all the articles about the so-called "post-PC" era, I doubt any 
were typed with thumbs on a phone.


If only those writers could observe themselves as they work



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Re: Upcoming MacOS 14.5 with software “notarization” requirements

[Andre Garzia via use-livecode]

People forget that speed and latency are not related. Solving latency on 
networked apps is tricky.


There will always be a place for Desktop apps (local apps on your 
computer I mean)


On 10/04/2019 22:53, Richard Gaskin via use-livecode wrote:

Paul Dupuis wrote:

> Of course this may all be a mute point if you believe the "industry
> analysts" that say that 5G networks will kill the market for local
> applications whether for iOS, Android, or desktop OSes and finally web
> app will be fast enough :-)

All networks can get faster, but I'm with Steven J. Vaughan-Nichols in 
not holding my breath for 5G to be anything close to the magic pony 
marketers are playing it up to be:


"5G or faux G?: Forget all those stories of 20 Gbps speeds and 1 
millisecond latency. 5G will never deliver performance like that — and 
anyway its time is still years away for most of us most of the time."

https://www.computerworld.com/article/3336119/5g-or-faux-g.html


EFF has a similar view:

"Enough of the 5G Hype"
https://www.eff.org/deeplinks/2019/02/enough-5g-hype

...and an alternative infrastructure proposal that will benefit 
existing devices as well as the someday-soon-no-really 5G access points:


"The U.S. Desperately Needs a 'Fiber for All' Plan"
https://www.eff.org/deeplinks/2019/03/us-desperately-needs-fiber-all-plan



With or without infrastructure improvements, I expect mobile to remain 
a steady growth segment.  But by "steady" I mean only slightly more 
than half of Internet traffic, with laptops being most of the remainder.


If Job's metaphor of the "post-PC" era means phones are cars and 
laptops are trucks, observe that the most popular auto form factor in 
the US is the SUV - effectively, a truck. :)


We're now a decade into the "post-PC" era, and Apple stills sells 
Macs. Lots of them.  More than iPads, which have leveled off to 
negative growth.


It's not just developers who need full computers.  It's everyone who 
isn't just a grazer: every artist, every writer, everyone making 
presentations. Nearly everyone.  You can do those things on a phone, 
just not as well.  With your thumbs.


For all the articles about the so-called "post-PC" era, I doubt any 
were typed with thumbs on a phone.


If only those writers could observe themselves as they work



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Re: Re: Upcoming MacOS 14.5 with software “notarization” requirements

[Richard Gaskin via use-livecode]

Paul Dupuis wrote:

> Of course this may all be a mute point if you believe the "industry
> analysts" that say that 5G networks will kill the market for local
> applications whether for iOS, Android, or desktop OSes and finally web
> app will be fast enough :-)

All networks can get faster, but I'm with Steven J. Vaughan-Nichols in 
not holding my breath for 5G to be anything close to the magic pony 
marketers are playing it up to be:


"5G or faux G?: Forget all those stories of 20 Gbps speeds and 1 
millisecond latency. 5G will never deliver performance like that — and 
anyway its time is still years away for most of us most of the time."

https://www.computerworld.com/article/3336119/5g-or-faux-g.html


EFF has a similar view:

"Enough of the 5G Hype"
https://www.eff.org/deeplinks/2019/02/enough-5g-hype

...and an alternative infrastructure proposal that will benefit existing 
devices as well as the someday-soon-no-really 5G access points:


"The U.S. Desperately Needs a 'Fiber for All' Plan"
https://www.eff.org/deeplinks/2019/03/us-desperately-needs-fiber-all-plan



With or without infrastructure improvements, I expect mobile to remain a 
steady growth segment.  But by "steady" I mean only slightly more than 
half of Internet traffic, with laptops being most of the remainder.


If Job's metaphor of the "post-PC" era means phones are cars and laptops 
are trucks, observe that the most popular auto form factor in the US is 
the SUV - effectively, a truck. :)


We're now a decade into the "post-PC" era, and Apple stills sells Macs. 
Lots of them.  More than iPads, which have leveled off to negative growth.


It's not just developers who need full computers.  It's everyone who 
isn't just a grazer: every artist, every writer, everyone making 
presentations. Nearly everyone.  You can do those things on a phone, 
just not as well.  With your thumbs.


For all the articles about the so-called "post-PC" era, I doubt any were 
typed with thumbs on a phone.


If only those writers could observe themselves as they work

--
 Richard Gaskin
 Fourth World Systems
 Software Design and Development for the Desktop, Mobile, and the Web
 
 ambassa...@fourthworld.comhttp://www.FourthWorld.com

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Re: Upcoming MacOS 14.5 with software “notarization” requirements

[Matthias Rebbe via use-livecode]

Matthias Rebbe

free tools for Livecoders:
https://instamaker.dermattes.de 
https://winsignhelper.dermattes.de 
> Am 10.04.2019 um 21:00 schrieb Paul Dupuis via use-livecode 
> mailto:use-livecode@lists.runrev.com>>:
> 
> 
> The problem is that the Standalone must be code signed first, before it can 
> be submitted to Apple for notarization. I suppose LiveCode could offer some 
> fields in the standalone builder for you to fill in the path to your cert and 
> they could detect if Xcode is installed and then do a shell() to call 
> codesign and then some more fields for you Apple Developer ID sign in and 
> then submit it to Apple.
> 
> It kind of defeats one of the great values of LiveCode which has been 
> cross-platform development as more and more platform specific stuff gets 
> attached.
> 
> I personally develop on Windows and build for OSX and Windows, but then I 
> need to move the OSX app to OSX for code signing. I would love to see a 
> feature where you could install your certs into LiveCode for each platform 
> and it would cross-platform build AND code sign each standalone for you.

On Mac OS X it´s possible to sign Windows apps.  You´ll need a 
CodeSigningCertificate and the free  software osslsigncode.
I am not sure, that the other way (signing Mac OS X apps under Windows) is 
possible. At least i´ve never heard of a way.



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Re: Upcoming MacOS 14.5 with software “notarization” requirements

[Paul Dupuis via use-livecode]

On 4/10/2019 2:05 PM, J. Landman Gay via use-livecode wrote:
I agree it's going to be an extra step. My hope is that once LC 
figures out how to secure their own IDE they can integrate that into 
the build process somehow. Maybe there could be an option after the 
standalone is made to submit it to Apple for notarization. That would 
be great.


The problem is that the Standalone must be code signed first, before it 
can be submitted to Apple for notarization. I suppose LiveCode could 
offer some fields in the standalone builder for you to fill in the path 
to your cert and they could detect if Xcode is installed and then do a 
shell() to call codesign and then some more fields for you Apple 
Developer ID sign in and then submit it to Apple.


It kind of defeats one of the great values of LiveCode which has been 
cross-platform development as more and more platform specific stuff gets 
attached.


I personally develop on Windows and build for OSX and Windows, but then 
I need to move the OSX app to OSX for code signing. I would love to see 
a feature where you could install your certs into LiveCode for each 
platform and it would cross-platform build AND code sign each standalone 
for you.


Of course this may all be a mute point if you believe the "industry 
analysts" that say that 5G networks will kill the market for local 
applications whether for iOS, Android, or desktop OSes and finally web 
app will be fast enough :-)



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Re: Upcoming MacOS 14.5 with software “notarization” requirements

[J. Landman Gay via use-livecode]

I agree it's going to be an extra step. My hope is that once LC figures out 
how to secure their own IDE they can integrate that into the build process 
somehow. Maybe there could be an option after the standalone is made to 
submit it to Apple for notarization. That would be great.


--
Jacqueline Landman Gay | jac...@hyperactivesw.com
HyperActive Software | http://www.hyperactivesw.com
On April 10, 2019 12:36:30 PM Richmond via use-livecode 
 wrote:



I don't think it's some secret plan either, but I do think it will make
things awkward for types like me
who wish to distribute demo standalones without any "undue fuss" as I am
able to at the moment via
sites such as macUpdate and via direct download from DropBox.

The problem, and it will always be a problem, is how to balance the
requirements for system security against
individual freedom.

I, for one, do not want people to vet my reading list before I buy books!

But, I'm an odd sort of person insofar as I won't hold it against the
producers of an operating system
if a piece of software I install on my computer hoses MY computer:
anymore than I am likely to sue
the makers of my underpants because a wasp bit my bottom when I sat on it.

I am absolutely convinced that Apple's move is a direct result of the
fact that fewer and fewer
people are prepared to accept responsibility for their actions, and are
always looking round for
someone to blame for the results of their decisions.

Richmond.

On 10.04.19 19:22, J. Landman Gay via use-livecode wrote:

There's no review, it's an automated process that adds a security key
to the files. It sounds a lot like the RSA public/private keys I added
to my current project to verify that the files hadn't been tampered
with. That's definitely a security thing. Gatekeeper will be updated
to check that the keys match.


If you plan to distribute in the App Store, the security keys must be
in place before the app is submitted for normal review. If you will be
distributing privately, users with newer versions of OSX may not be
able to launch the app if is not secured. If you already have apps in
the App Store they won't be affected.


While I'm not happy with the general direction Apple is taking with
OSX, their main PR lately has been how much more secure the OS is
compared to most others. They've been caught recently with a few bad
submissions their review missed, which may have triggered this new
change.


I'm not happy with this because the submission process was already bad
enough, but I don't think it's some secret plan to take over all our
software.
--
Jacqueline Landman Gay | jac...@hyperactivesw.com
HyperActive Software | http://www.hyperactivesw.com
On April 10, 2019 6:15:45 AM Paul Dupuis via use-livecode
 wrote:


From the first link to the Apple developer site:

"Important

Beginning in macOS 10.14.5, all new or updated kernel extensions and all
software from developers new to distributing with Developer ID must be
notarized in order to run. In a future version of macOS, notarization
will be required by default for all software."

It seems that this is the next step in the inevitable move by Apple to
require all macOS applications to be sold through the Apple Store where
they will take their desired 30% cut from your revenue. Notarization is
the step that say all apps must go through Apple (automated) review. It
is being sold under the guise of "security" and "trust", after all, who
can argue with those. Notarized apps can still be sold and distributed
as you like, but the next step after that (with OSX 10.15 or later) will
surely be the move to unify OSX apps under sole Apple distributorship
like iOS apps.

Oh Joy!


On 4/9/2019 10:27 PM, Tariel Gogoberidze via use-livecode wrote:

Hi

It seems that as of  MacOS 14.5 all new and updated apps would not
run without been “notarized” by Apple.

https://developer.apple.com/documentation/security/notarizing_your_app_before_distribution



https://www.cultofmac.com/618378/apple-will-soon-require-all-macos-apps-to-be-notarized/



Anybody on the list who “notarized” their Mac OS app or who knows
what it takes  ?

regards
Tariel
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su

Re: Upcoming MacOS 14.5 with software “notarization” requirements

[Richmond via use-livecode]

I don't think it's some secret plan either, but I do think it will make 
things awkward for types like me
who wish to distribute demo standalones without any "undue fuss" as I am 
able to at the moment via

sites such as macUpdate and via direct download from DropBox.

The problem, and it will always be a problem, is how to balance the 
requirements for system security against

individual freedom.

I, for one, do not want people to vet my reading list before I buy books!

But, I'm an odd sort of person insofar as I won't hold it against the 
producers of an operating system
if a piece of software I install on my computer hoses MY computer: 
anymore than I am likely to sue

the makers of my underpants because a wasp bit my bottom when I sat on it.

I am absolutely convinced that Apple's move is a direct result of the 
fact that fewer and fewer
people are prepared to accept responsibility for their actions, and are 
always looking round for

someone to blame for the results of their decisions.

Richmond.

On 10.04.19 19:22, J. Landman Gay via use-livecode wrote:
There's no review, it's an automated process that adds a security key 
to the files. It sounds a lot like the RSA public/private keys I added 
to my current project to verify that the files hadn't been tampered 
with. That's definitely a security thing. Gatekeeper will be updated 
to check that the keys match.



If you plan to distribute in the App Store, the security keys must be 
in place before the app is submitted for normal review. If you will be 
distributing privately, users with newer versions of OSX may not be 
able to launch the app if is not secured. If you already have apps in 
the App Store they won't be affected.



While I'm not happy with the general direction Apple is taking with 
OSX, their main PR lately has been how much more secure the OS is 
compared to most others. They've been caught recently with a few bad 
submissions their review missed, which may have triggered this new 
change.



I'm not happy with this because the submission process was already bad 
enough, but I don't think it's some secret plan to take over all our 
software.

--
Jacqueline Landman Gay | jac...@hyperactivesw.com
HyperActive Software | http://www.hyperactivesw.com
On April 10, 2019 6:15:45 AM Paul Dupuis via use-livecode 
 wrote:



From the first link to the Apple developer site:

"Important

Beginning in macOS 10.14.5, all new or updated kernel extensions and all
software from developers new to distributing with Developer ID must be
notarized in order to run. In a future version of macOS, notarization
will be required by default for all software."

It seems that this is the next step in the inevitable move by Apple to
require all macOS applications to be sold through the Apple Store where
they will take their desired 30% cut from your revenue. Notarization is
the step that say all apps must go through Apple (automated) review. It
is being sold under the guise of "security" and "trust", after all, who
can argue with those. Notarized apps can still be sold and distributed
as you like, but the next step after that (with OSX 10.15 or later) will
surely be the move to unify OSX apps under sole Apple distributorship
like iOS apps.

Oh Joy!


On 4/9/2019 10:27 PM, Tariel Gogoberidze via use-livecode wrote:

Hi

It seems that as of  MacOS 14.5 all new and updated apps would not 
run without been “notarized” by Apple.


https://developer.apple.com/documentation/security/notarizing_your_app_before_distribution 
 



https://www.cultofmac.com/618378/apple-will-soon-require-all-macos-apps-to-be-notarized/ 
 



Anybody on the list who “notarized” their Mac OS app or who knows 
what it takes  ?


regards
Tariel
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Re: Upcoming MacOS 14.5 with software “notarization” requirements

[J. Landman Gay via use-livecode]

Existing software won't be affected if I understood their documentation 
right. They also provide information on how to test and debug during 
development.



Really guys, go read the links.
--
Jacqueline Landman Gay | jac...@hyperactivesw.com
HyperActive Software | http://www.hyperactivesw.com
On April 10, 2019 7:52:50 AM Richmond via use-livecode 
 wrote:



Presumably this means that when/if one upgrades from macOS 10.14 to 10.15
ALL software currently installed is going to stop working as none of it
is notarized.

This also will mean that one cannot even test one's own standalones
on any machines running macOS one has at home, and is probably going to
kill freeware dead in the water.

I suppose the first step is that LiveCode will have to notarize all IDEs
to run on 10.15 and above . . .

Running older Macs with earlier operating systems doesn't look quite
as daft as it used to.

Richmond.

On 10.04.19 14:14, Paul Dupuis via use-livecode wrote:

From the first link to the Apple developer site:

"Important

Beginning in macOS 10.14.5, all new or updated kernel extensions and
all software from developers new to distributing with Developer ID
must be notarized in order to run. In a future version of macOS,
notarization will be required by default for all software."

It seems that this is the next step in the inevitable move by Apple to
require all macOS applications to be sold through the Apple Store
where they will take their desired 30% cut from your revenue.
Notarization is the step that say all apps must go through Apple
(automated) review. It is being sold under the guise of "security" and
"trust", after all, who can argue with those. Notarized apps can still
be sold and distributed as you like, but the next step after that
(with OSX 10.15 or later) will surely be the move to unify OSX apps
under sole Apple distributorship like iOS apps.

Oh Joy!


On 4/9/2019 10:27 PM, Tariel Gogoberidze via use-livecode wrote:

Hi

It seems that as of  MacOS 14.5 all new and updated apps  would not
run without been “notarized” by Apple.

https://developer.apple.com/documentation/security/notarizing_your_app_before_distribution



https://www.cultofmac.com/618378/apple-will-soon-require-all-macos-apps-to-be-notarized/



Anybody on the list who “notarized” their Mac OS app or who knows
what it takes  ?

regards
Tariel
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Re: Upcoming MacOS 14.5 with software “notarization” requirements

[J. Landman Gay via use-livecode]

There's no review, it's an automated process that adds a security key to 
the files. It sounds a lot like the RSA public/private keys I added to my 
current project to verify that the files hadn't been tampered with. That's 
definitely a security thing. Gatekeeper will be updated to check that the 
keys match.



If you plan to distribute in the App Store, the security keys must be in 
place before the app is submitted for normal review. If you will be 
distributing privately, users with newer versions of OSX may not be able to 
launch the app if is not secured. If you already have apps in the App Store 
they won't be affected.



While I'm not happy with the general direction Apple is taking with OSX, 
their main PR lately has been how much more secure the OS is compared to 
most others. They've been caught recently with a few bad submissions their 
review missed, which may have triggered this new change.



I'm not happy with this because the submission process was already bad 
enough, but I don't think it's some secret plan to take over all our software.

--
Jacqueline Landman Gay | jac...@hyperactivesw.com
HyperActive Software | http://www.hyperactivesw.com
On April 10, 2019 6:15:45 AM Paul Dupuis via use-livecode 
 wrote:



From the first link to the Apple developer site:

"Important

Beginning in macOS 10.14.5, all new or updated kernel extensions and all
software from developers new to distributing with Developer ID must be
notarized in order to run. In a future version of macOS, notarization
will be required by default for all software."

It seems that this is the next step in the inevitable move by Apple to
require all macOS applications to be sold through the Apple Store where
they will take their desired 30% cut from your revenue. Notarization is
the step that say all apps must go through Apple (automated) review. It
is being sold under the guise of "security" and "trust", after all, who
can argue with those. Notarized apps can still be sold and distributed
as you like, but the next step after that (with OSX 10.15 or later) will
surely be the move to unify OSX apps under sole Apple distributorship
like iOS apps.

Oh Joy!


On 4/9/2019 10:27 PM, Tariel Gogoberidze via use-livecode wrote:

Hi

It seems that as of  MacOS 14.5 all new and updated apps  would not run 
without been “notarized” by Apple.


https://developer.apple.com/documentation/security/notarizing_your_app_before_distribution 



https://www.cultofmac.com/618378/apple-will-soon-require-all-macos-apps-to-be-notarized/ 



Anybody on the list who “notarized” their Mac OS app or who knows what it 
takes  ?


regards
Tariel
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Re: Upcoming MacOS 14.5 with software “notarization” requirements

[Curry Kenworthy via use-livecode]

Paul:

> the move to unify OSX apps under sole Apple
> distributorship like iOS apps. Oh Joy!

Andre:

> Heck, what Apple is doing?!

Perhaps a very slight adjustment to the old motto:

"DON'T think different." Or else. :)

Best wishes,

Curry Kenworthy

Custom Software Development
"Better Methods, Better Results"
LiveCode Training and Consulting
http://livecodeconsulting.com/

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Re: Upcoming MacOS 14.5 with software “notarization” requirements

[Richmond via use-livecode]

Presumably this means that when/if one upgrades from macOS 10.14 to 10.15
ALL software currently installed is going to stop working as none of it 
is notarized.


This also will mean that one cannot even test one's own standalones
on any machines running macOS one has at home, and is probably going to
kill freeware dead in the water.

I suppose the first step is that LiveCode will have to notarize all IDEs
to run on 10.15 and above . . .

Running older Macs with earlier operating systems doesn't look quite
as daft as it used to.

Richmond.

On 10.04.19 14:14, Paul Dupuis via use-livecode wrote:

From the first link to the Apple developer site:

"Important

Beginning in macOS 10.14.5, all new or updated kernel extensions and 
all software from developers new to distributing with Developer ID 
must be notarized in order to run. In a future version of macOS, 
notarization will be required by default for all software."


It seems that this is the next step in the inevitable move by Apple to 
require all macOS applications to be sold through the Apple Store 
where they will take their desired 30% cut from your revenue. 
Notarization is the step that say all apps must go through Apple 
(automated) review. It is being sold under the guise of "security" and 
"trust", after all, who can argue with those. Notarized apps can still 
be sold and distributed as you like, but the next step after that 
(with OSX 10.15 or later) will surely be the move to unify OSX apps 
under sole Apple distributorship like iOS apps.


Oh Joy!


On 4/9/2019 10:27 PM, Tariel Gogoberidze via use-livecode wrote:

Hi

It seems that as of  MacOS 14.5 all new and updated apps  would not 
run without been “notarized” by Apple.


https://developer.apple.com/documentation/security/notarizing_your_app_before_distribution 
 



https://www.cultofmac.com/618378/apple-will-soon-require-all-macos-apps-to-be-notarized/ 
 



Anybody on the list who “notarized” their Mac OS app or who knows 
what it takes  ?


regards
Tariel
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Re: Upcoming MacOS 14.5 with software “notarization” requirements

[Paul Dupuis via use-livecode]

From the first link to the Apple developer site:

"Important

Beginning in macOS 10.14.5, all new or updated kernel extensions and all 
software from developers new to distributing with Developer ID must be 
notarized in order to run. In a future version of macOS, notarization 
will be required by default for all software."


It seems that this is the next step in the inevitable move by Apple to 
require all macOS applications to be sold through the Apple Store where 
they will take their desired 30% cut from your revenue. Notarization is 
the step that say all apps must go through Apple (automated) review. It 
is being sold under the guise of "security" and "trust", after all, who 
can argue with those. Notarized apps can still be sold and distributed 
as you like, but the next step after that (with OSX 10.15 or later) will 
surely be the move to unify OSX apps under sole Apple distributorship 
like iOS apps.


Oh Joy!


On 4/9/2019 10:27 PM, Tariel Gogoberidze via use-livecode wrote:

Hi

It seems that as of  MacOS 14.5 all new and updated apps  would not run without 
been “notarized” by Apple.

https://developer.apple.com/documentation/security/notarizing_your_app_before_distribution
 


https://www.cultofmac.com/618378/apple-will-soon-require-all-macos-apps-to-be-notarized/
 


Anybody on the list who “notarized” their Mac OS app or who knows what it takes 
 ?

regards
Tariel
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Upcoming MacOS 14.5 with software “notarization” requirements

[Tariel Gogoberidze via use-livecode]

Hi

It seems that as of  MacOS 14.5 all new and updated apps  would not run without 
been “notarized” by Apple.

https://developer.apple.com/documentation/security/notarizing_your_app_before_distribution
 


https://www.cultofmac.com/618378/apple-will-soon-require-all-macos-apps-to-be-notarized/
 


Anybody on the list who “notarized” their Mac OS app or who knows what it takes 
 ?

regards
Tariel
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