Re: livecode website templates

[Matt Maier]

Thanks. Yeah, I think I can imagine what the script would be for that mad
libs example.

Richard's subtle cajoling reminded me of all the stuff I could just
implement in the desktop client I already have instead of starting from
scratch with web scripting.
On Mar 9, 2016 10:28 AM, "J. Landman Gay"  wrote:

> On 3/9/2016 12:22 PM, J. Landman Gay wrote:
>
>> On 3/8/2016 6:25 PM, Richard Gaskin wrote:
>>
>>> There are a few examples in the community where the author has the
>>> output and source available from the same page.  Jacque, didn't you have
>>> a couple of those?
>>>
>>
>> I have a (dated) example here:
>> 
>>
>> It still uses the "rev" designation but would work fine with "lc"
>> instead. It does refer to a CGI though; the server script is partly LC
>> server stuff and partly refers to a custom LC CGI in the cgi-bin
>> directory.
>>
>> There's another one here:
>> 
>>
>> That one doesn't show the actual server script, but I could post it if
>> it would help. It isn't very complicated.
>>
>>
> Oh, here's another one:
> 
>
> Same deal, the scripts don't show but are available if you want them. Easy
> stuff.
>
> --
> Jacqueline Landman Gay | jac...@hyperactivesw.com
> HyperActive Software   | http://www.hyperactivesw.com
>
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Re: livecode website templates

[J. Landman Gay]

On 3/9/2016 12:22 PM, J. Landman Gay wrote:

On 3/8/2016 6:25 PM, Richard Gaskin wrote:

There are a few examples in the community where the author has the
output and source available from the same page.  Jacque, didn't you have
a couple of those?


I have a (dated) example here:


It still uses the "rev" designation but would work fine with "lc"
instead. It does refer to a CGI though; the server script is partly LC
server stuff and partly refers to a custom LC CGI in the cgi-bin directory.

There's another one here:


That one doesn't show the actual server script, but I could post it if
it would help. It isn't very complicated.



Oh, here's another one:


Same deal, the scripts don't show but are available if you want them. 
Easy stuff.


--
Jacqueline Landman Gay | jac...@hyperactivesw.com
HyperActive Software   | http://www.hyperactivesw.com

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Re: livecode website templates

[J. Landman Gay]

On 3/8/2016 6:25 PM, Richard Gaskin wrote:

There are a few examples in the community where the author has the
output and source available from the same page.  Jacque, didn't you have
a couple of those?


I have a (dated) example here:


It still uses the "rev" designation but would work fine with "lc" 
instead. It does refer to a CGI though; the server script is partly LC 
server stuff and partly refers to a custom LC CGI in the cgi-bin directory.


There's another one here:


That one doesn't show the actual server script, but I could post it if 
it would help. It isn't very complicated.


--
Jacqueline Landman Gay | jac...@hyperactivesw.com
HyperActive Software   | http://www.hyperactivesw.com

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Re: livecode website templates

[Alex Tweedly]

On 09/03/2016 00:15, Alex Tweedly wrote:
I have a number of (small-ish) websites all done with Livecode - but 
none of them is decent enough quality to want to make them public; 
however, I'd be happy to share them off--list if you want (with a 
repeated warning that I am not really happy with any of them :-)

Feel free to look at
...
or
http://kilmelford.com

Actually, don't look at that last one - it's stopped working, as a 
side-effect of the latest "upgrade" to on-rev servers.


I'll have to find my emails from the last time this happened, and get 
the server config fixed - so don't look at kilmelford.com for now :-)


-- Alex.

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Re: livecode website templates

[Richard Gaskin]

Matt Maier wrote:

> Rght...except that I can't use "view page source" to see any
> Livecode because what's delivered to the browser is either html, css,
> or javascript, correct? So the Livecode "source" is replaced by its
> own output, which maintains the mystery.

True.  As with PHP, if you're seeing the code rather than the processed 
output, that means the system didn't work.


And like PHP, one of the reasons you may not see much source for 
complete sites is that many times what people write is purpose built for 
a specific site.


For example I could show you the code I use to produce the output at 
livecodejournal.com, but that setup is so specific to my own particular 
CMS preferences that it would be darn near useless for anyone else (even 
more so in that case since I don't use LC Server at all, so I have extra 
code to handle things like parsing incoming requests that LC Serve does 
automatically).


I'm with Phil on this one:  For a good look at a sophisticated system 
made with LC Server, check out Ralf Bitter's excellent framework, 
RevIgniter:

http://samples.on-rev.com/index.irev


> There are several small tutorials scattered around, but where can I
> see actual websites that run on Livecode? Even the on-rev.com
> examples don't actually provide the *.lc files. All I can see there
> are the isolated Livecode scripts and the static page delivered to
> the browser in html.

There are a few examples in the community where the author has the 
output and source available from the same page.  Jacque, didn't you have 
a couple of those?  Anyone here know of others?



> When you say "use Livecode for the client" do you mean a desktop
> standalone or the new HTML5 standalone?

As a general rule, I'm big on testing pre-release code but almost never 
ship anything until it goes final (a habit I picked up from the 
SuperCard for Windows days, an old joke that may make some here 
chuckle).  And I need < 6-second page load times.  So while the HTML 
export option seems to be coming along nicely, I don't expect to explore 
production solutions with it for some time.


Meanwhile, standalones are great.  Truly great.  The built-in support 
for HTTP makes so many things super-easy.  Most of the work I'm doing 
now is workgroup solutions in which the app has only enough code to 
download a small library, and that library downloads everything else, 
UI, business logic, media, data, the works.


This gives me most of the benefits that make web deployments useful: 
the client always has the most recent built, data is stored in the cloud 
so they can work from any machine and collaborate with others.


And it avoids the big downside of web development:  I don't have to 
confine my UI and feature set to fit into the constraints of a browser. 
 I can freely work with local files, the only menus in my menu bar are 
the ones my app needs, and I never have to handle the biggest nightmare 
web devs face: what happens when the user hits the Back button? (though 
in all fairness that's been somewhat mitigated by recent new event 
supported added in HTML5).


For me the best thing about using LC on both client and server is being 
able to use compressed LSON for transferring data ("LSON" is a play on 
"JSON" and "BSON", my pet name for LiveCode encoded arrays; I've found 
since I adopted that many client conversations are much simpler; 
everyone loves familiar-sounding acronyms).  Much of the work we do in 
LC is well expressed in arrays, and being able to serialize them for 
transport more simply and efficiently than any JSON library could hope 
to offer has been wonderful.


Many here have reported organizational concerns about standalone 
deployment, and I suppose if stakeholders truly need a web app they need 
a web app.


But many times they don't truly need a web app.  If there's anything 
we've learned from the Mobile Era, is that OS-native apps have a 
valuable role, able to do things far beyond what a browser can do.


For the low cost of a one-time download and installation, an 
organization can enjoy always-fresh code and cloud collaboration 
workflows, all in a UI dedicated to the task at hand.


And when those are built with LiveCode, they enjoy significant cost 
savings as well. :)


--
 Richard Gaskin
 Fourth World Systems
 Software Design and Development for the Desktop, Mobile, and the Web
 
 ambassa...@fourthworld.comhttp://www.FourthWorld.com


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Re: livecode website templates

[Alex Tweedly]

On 08/03/2016 20:28, Matt Maier wrote:

Rght...except that I can't use "view page source" to see any
Livecode because what's delivered to the browser is either html, css, or
javascript, correct?

Correct.

  So the Livecode "source" is replaced by its own
output, which maintains the mystery.

Yes.


There are several small tutorials scattered around, but where can I see
actual websites that run on Livecode? Even the on-rev.com examples don't
actually provide the *.lc files. All I can see there are the isolated
Livecode scripts and the static page delivered to the browser in html.
Unfortunately I don't know of any concrete examples. There may well be 
some  - sadly the Livecode samples and examples are in too many places, 
and it can be hard to track things down.


I have a number of (small-ish) websites all done with Livecode - but 
none of them is decent enough quality to want to make them public; 
however, I'd be happy to share them off--list if you want (with a 
repeated warning that I am not really happy with any of them :-)

Feel free to look at
http://melaniechmielewska.co.uk/
or
http://karenliversedge.com   (uses revIgniter)
or
http://kilmelford.com


revIgniter is a good framework - and it comes with a lot of code, 
including e.g. login / authentication samples - so there is a lot there, 
but it is a big learning curve.




When you say "use Livecode for the client" do you mean a desktop standalone
or the new HTML5 standalone?
In this case I'm sure Richard meant desktop standalone, sonce he's been 
an advocate for that for some years. I'm sure once HTML5 standalones 
become smoething we can deploy, many of  the advantages of desktop LC 
standalones will be available via that path as well.


-- Alex.

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Re: livecode website templates

[Matt Maier]

Rght...except that I can't use "view page source" to see any
Livecode because what's delivered to the browser is either html, css, or
javascript, correct? So the Livecode "source" is replaced by its own
output, which maintains the mystery.

There are several small tutorials scattered around, but where can I see
actual websites that run on Livecode? Even the on-rev.com examples don't
actually provide the *.lc files. All I can see there are the isolated
Livecode scripts and the static page delivered to the browser in html.

When you say "use Livecode for the client" do you mean a desktop standalone
or the new HTML5 standalone?

On Tue, Mar 8, 2016 at 11:52 AM, Richard Gaskin 
wrote:

> Matt Maier wrote:
> > Oh. So, when you use Livecode to put "Hello world" into the browser,
> > is it actually sending the browser something like Hello world
> > from the server?
>
> Yep.  That's the secret charm of web development:  HTML defines what's in
> a page, CSS defines how it looks, JavaScript defines how you can interact
> with it - and all three are just plain text.
>
> "View Page Source" is the greatest feature ever, and every browser has
> it.  With that and a little time, even the coolest web sites become
> demystified.
>
> With a text processing toolkit like LiveCode's chunk expressions, coupled
> with everything else it does from image manipulation to socket handling and
> more, the range of ways LiveCode can contribute to web development is
> limited only by the imagination.
>
> You can generate pages locally and upload 'em securely and efficiently
> with rsync, or use a server-side CGI to accept input from the user to fill
> in custom templates with merge, or create custom images from user input, or
> access databases, or mashup content from multiple web sources, or index
> chunks of the Internet, or build intranet resources for your organization,
> or admin all your servers from one place, or make a dashboard for your
> boss, or monitor forum activity, or write a blog, or sync content between
> your phone and laptop, or
>
> And if you use LiveCode for the client also, you can multiply the number
> of things you can do over HTTP by at least two, and get them done in a
> fraction of the time. :)
>
> --
>  Richard Gaskin
>  Fourth World Systems
>  Software Design and Development for the Desktop, Mobile, and the Web
>  
>
>  ambassa...@fourthworld.comhttp://www.FourthWorld.com
>
>
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Re: livecode website templates

[Richard Gaskin]

Matt Maier wrote:
> Oh. So, when you use Livecode to put "Hello world" into the browser,
> is it actually sending the browser something like Hello world
> from the server?

Yep.  That's the secret charm of web development:  HTML defines what's 
in a page, CSS defines how it looks, JavaScript defines how you can 
interact with it - and all three are just plain text.


"View Page Source" is the greatest feature ever, and every browser has 
it.  With that and a little time, even the coolest web sites become 
demystified.


With a text processing toolkit like LiveCode's chunk expressions, 
coupled with everything else it does from image manipulation to socket 
handling and more, the range of ways LiveCode can contribute to web 
development is limited only by the imagination.


You can generate pages locally and upload 'em securely and efficiently 
with rsync, or use a server-side CGI to accept input from the user to 
fill in custom templates with merge, or create custom images from user 
input, or access databases, or mashup content from multiple web sources, 
or index chunks of the Internet, or build intranet resources for your 
organization, or admin all your servers from one place, or make a 
dashboard for your boss, or monitor forum activity, or write a blog, or 
sync content between your phone and laptop, or


And if you use LiveCode for the client also, you can multiply the number 
of things you can do over HTTP by at least two, and get them done in a 
fraction of the time. :)


--
 Richard Gaskin
 Fourth World Systems
 Software Design and Development for the Desktop, Mobile, and the Web
 
 ambassa...@fourthworld.comhttp://www.FourthWorld.com


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Re: livecode website templates

[stephen barncard]

Look into revIgniter.. a great CMS written in Livecode Server... more than
a template...

http://revigniter.com/

First and foremost, a framework for your beloved coding language
A Model-View-Controller based framework
A framework with a small footprint
Excellent performance
A framework that requires virtually zero configuration
A framework that does not require you to stick to limiting coding rules
(almost)
A clear, detailed documentation

Stephen Barncard - Sebastopol Ca. USA -
mixstream.org

On Sun, Mar 6, 2016 at 10:11 PM, Matt Maier  wrote:

> Does anyone know of any website templates that use Livecode? I want to set
> up a basic file hosting/sharing thing with logins. I've got space in what
> used to be the on-rev servers and it would be nice to continue using
> livecode on the web like I use it on the desktop.
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Re: livecode website templates

[Matt Maier]

Oh. So, when you use Livecode to put "Hello world" into the browser, is it
actually sending the browser something like Hello world from the
server?
On Mar 7, 2016 19:57, "Richard Gaskin"  wrote:

> Matt Maier wrote:
>
>> Has anybody actually built a website using Livecode, as in these examples?
>> http://samples.on-rev.com/index.irev
>>
>> I checked the code in all of these sites and, unless I'm missing
>> something,
>> everyone who knows Livecode is using javascript (or is just using
>> templates?).
>>
>
> JavaScript is the only language embedded in browsers, so it's no like
> anyone has a choice there.
>
> But JavaScript is also plain text, and LiveCode is very adept at
> manipulating text.  Many of us deliver that along with HTML and CSS from
> LiveCode running on the backend.
>
> Not for everything; static content needn't be slowed down by putting it
> into a dynamic content delivery system.  But most of us have at least some
> dynamic content and/or services made with LiveCode on our servers, and some
> of us even use LiveCode for part of our static content management.
>
> --
>  Richard Gaskin
>  Fourth World Systems
>  Software Design and Development for Desktop, Mobile, and Web
>  
>  ambassa...@fourthworld.comhttp://www.FourthWorld.com
>
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Re: livecode website templates

[Richard Gaskin]

Matt Maier wrote:

Has anybody actually built a website using Livecode, as in these examples?
http://samples.on-rev.com/index.irev

I checked the code in all of these sites and, unless I'm missing something,
everyone who knows Livecode is using javascript (or is just using
templates?).


JavaScript is the only language embedded in browsers, so it's no like 
anyone has a choice there.


But JavaScript is also plain text, and LiveCode is very adept at 
manipulating text.  Many of us deliver that along with HTML and CSS from 
LiveCode running on the backend.


Not for everything; static content needn't be slowed down by putting it 
into a dynamic content delivery system.  But most of us have at least 
some dynamic content and/or services made with LiveCode on our servers, 
and some of us even use LiveCode for part of our static content management.


--
 Richard Gaskin
 Fourth World Systems
 Software Design and Development for Desktop, Mobile, and Web
 
 ambassa...@fourthworld.comhttp://www.FourthWorld.com

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Re: livecode website templates

[Matt Maier]

Has anybody actually built a website using Livecode, as in these examples?
http://samples.on-rev.com/index.irev

I checked the code in all of these sites and, unless I'm missing something,
everyone who knows Livecode is using javascript (or is just using
templates?).
https://livecode.com/
http://activethought.net/
http://mergext.com/
http://www.fourthworld.com/index.html
http://livecodegamedeveloper.com/
http://livecodesupersite.com/
http://www.bluemangolearning.com/livecode/
http://on-rev.com/server-status/home/
https://www.fmpromigrator.com/services/php_to_livecode_service.html
http://www.gatewestcoin.com/

On Sun, Mar 6, 2016 at 10:43 PM, Phil Davis  wrote:

> Templates, no. Framework, yes:
>
> http://revigniter.com/
>
> Phil Davis
>
>
>
>
> On 3/6/16 10:11 PM, Matt Maier wrote:
>
>> Does anyone know of any website templates that use Livecode? I want to set
>> up a basic file hosting/sharing thing with logins. I've got space in what
>> used to be the on-rev servers and it would be nice to continue using
>> livecode on the web like I use it on the desktop.
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>>
> --
> Phil Davis
>
>
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Re: livecode website templates

[Phil Davis]

Templates, no. Framework, yes:

http://revigniter.com/

Phil Davis



On 3/6/16 10:11 PM, Matt Maier wrote:

Does anyone know of any website templates that use Livecode? I want to set
up a basic file hosting/sharing thing with logins. I've got space in what
used to be the on-rev servers and it would be nice to continue using
livecode on the web like I use it on the desktop.
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--
Phil Davis


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livecode website templates

[Matt Maier]

Does anyone know of any website templates that use Livecode? I want to set
up a basic file hosting/sharing thing with logins. I've got space in what
used to be the on-rev servers and it would be nice to continue using
livecode on the web like I use it on the desktop.
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