not a stupid question today, more an observations

[Michael Foy]

when you are in the script debug and have sat a break, at the top of the
screen you have a run to end button it would be nice if the run button at
the bottom, next to the trace and step into, only run to the next breakpoint
rather than to the end, I know the trace plods onto the next break, but
sometimes you want to go quickly through the code

just an observation /request

miock


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Re: License issue

[Ben Rubinstein]

on 5/4/02 3:49 PM, Steve Messimer at [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

> I have reviewed the license issue and it seems fair and appropriate to me.
> It looks as if this fee is related to covering Rev support costs in large
> companies and doesn't seem to be an issue for small developers at all.
> 
> Here's a relavant quote from the FAQ that relartes directly to my business:
> 
> "I'm a shareware developer / consultant / retail software developer and I'm
> going to ship thousands of copies. Do I need a license?"
> 
> "No."
> 
> End of issue from my perspective.

I agree that there are many classes of use to which this doesn't apply.  And
if it was truly intended - and applied - only to covering Rev support costs
in large companies it may well be appropriate (thought there are other ways
to solve that particular problem).  And if that was all it was, I could also
pass it off as having no relevance to me, because I am not in that
situation.

However, in both the formulations we have seen so far it appears that the
net has been cast considerably wider, and as far as I can see in the current
writing it looks a lot like it could affect me, and in very unclear ways.
So I do rather urgently want clarification.  Kevin, please can you answer
some questions?
 
  Ben Rubinstein   |  Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
  Cognitive Applications Ltd   |  Phone: +44 (0)1273-821600
  http://www.cogapp.com|  Fax  : +44 (0)1273-728866



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Re: Revolution book

[Heather Williams]

> Hi,
> 
> I have been using RR daily now for months.  I continue to be happy with its
> capabilities. The only thing that remains an issue for me is the lack of
> printed documentation and / or third party books on the subject. It is clear
> that there are additional sources of information because many of the
> contributors to these lists seem to be extremely knowledgeable about
> transcript and RR in general.  Where did these folks get this information?
> Was it working w MetaCard? Is there some printed documentation available for
> Metacard?
> 
> Don't get me  wrong.  I'm not angry about this, just frustrated.  Does
> anybody know if there is there a book in the works. What we really need is a
> book similar to Danny Goodman's "Complete HyperCard Handbook". That type of
> book could make learning the intricacies of Transcript and Run Rev a lot
> easier than randomly accessing the online help app or going to the lists.

A printed version of the existing documentation is in the works. I am
working on getting it available as fast as possible, however this could
still be several weeks. As soon as it is available I will announce it on
this list, as well as the website. We are well aware of the need for this
book, and apologise for the long delay in making it available. I would ask
for your patience for just a few weeks longer.

Regards,

Heather
> 
> Just my 2¢.
> 
> Steve

-- 
Heather Williams <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> 
Runtime Revolution Ltd.
Tel: +44 (0) 131 7184333 Fax: +44 (0)1639 830707
Ten Thumbs Typing Tutor Teach your Fingers to Dance

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Re: Revolution Book

[Edmund Boyd]

I agree with Steve. I only just discovered RR, after being a regular 
HyperCard user for 15 years or thereabouts. Making the transition 
would be SO much easier if there were a decent book or manual. 
Personally, I don't like online manuals. I can't read them in bed or 
in the armchair.

Eddie

>  I have been using RR daily now for months.  I continue to be happy with its
>  capabilities. The only thing that remains an issue for me is the lack of
>  printed documentation and / or third party books on the subject. It is clear
>  that there are additional sources of information because many of the
>  contributors to these lists seem to be extremely knowledgeable about
>  transcript and RR in general.  Where did these folks get this information?
>  Was it working w MetaCard? Is there some printed documentation available for
>  Metacard?
-- 
http://www.isle-of-bute.net/
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Re: MySQL and revolution

[Jean-Michel Lekston]

>I've never use Database mySQL before OS X
>I have friends who works on UNIX and they say it is much more fast and
>easier than using a self made database.
>I made a program 10 years ago on HyperCard and I would like to put it on
> database like My SQL.
>Is it possible to enter the data via Revolution ?
>How ?
>Thanks.
>
>Guillaume (France)

Hi,
Unfortunaly, MySQL databases Handlers doesn't work for the moment.
Personnaly, I made a glue satellite PERL program. This one is connect to
MySQL Database and it is listen tcpip port for external connection, creates
dedicated socket when connection occured. It forwards requests to MySQL
daemon and it forwards reply to the connected program. It s very easy to use
socket with revolution and so to create connection with the Perl program.
More generaly Revolution integrate a socket interface. Like web services
model, You can extend fonctionnality of your revolution application with
external networks deamon.

JML (France)

Ps : si tu preferes en français, La solution consiste a créer un programme
satellite (en perl) chargé de faire l'interface entre revolution et le MySQL
daemon. pour le moment, L'interface mysql de revolution ne fonctionne pas.
En revanche, l'interface socket fonctionne correctement. L'idee est
d'etendre les fonctionnalites de ton application Revolution par des
"services web" externes. Pour MySQL il existe 3 API correctes
- une en C
- une en JAVA
- une en PERL
Le plus simple est de developper en Perl ou en JAVA.

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RE: Revolution and Internet Applications

[Chipp Walters]

Dan,

I'm using RR to build some rather nifty Internet apps currently. I just
finished an Uploader wizard builder which works with our Hemingway Content
Management System. I've also built some Internet libraries which are helpful
in uploading files to our server, as well as processing asynchronously
multiple requests.

There's a plugin called "HTML builder" at
http://www.altuit.com/webs/altuit2/RunRev/Plugins.htm which if you put in
the plugins folder, can let you create HTML and play with the different
tags. If you Alt-click on the blue button, it will topLevel it so you can
better play around.

Also, in the downloads section, there are a number of interesting utilities,
including XML TreeView control which works great with servers, the
altSAFileUp Library which handles standard file upload (RFC1867) protocols
and altURL Library which is easy to view and understand/modify for your
purposes.

I find using a RR client coupled with an ASP based back-end works well -- I
can create web apps very quickly.

It would be nice if we had an Open Source internet utility project. I can
see a need for some better parsers, along with more internet savy controls.

my two cents,

Chipp Walters, Altuit,inc.

> -Original Message-
> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]On Behalf Of Dan Shafer
> Sent: Monday, April 08, 2002 2:10 AM
> To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Subject: Revolution and Internet Applications
>
>
> The applications I envision building over the next year or two are
> all Internet and Web-based applications. They provide non-browser
> approaches to dealing with information stored in Web pages and on
> Internet sites in databases and other formats. So the Internet
> capabilities of my tool set are crucial.
>
> As I probe Revolution's documentation and build small test stacks, I
> seem to be finding that this particular aspect of Revolution is not
> (yet) well-developed.
>
> For example, not only is the htmlText property very weak in terms of
> the tag support it offers, it appears to me that it doesn't support
> even those limited tags it claims to. Specifically, the  tag
> set appears to be unsupported, at least under OS X. Clicking on text
> that is connected to a link in the original Web page does not
> generate an automatic link to the new page. I presume this could be
> scripted but it's difficult to see how: (a) this could be a
> general-case solution; and (b) one can claim to support a standard
> HTML tag but not its associated behavior.
>
> Similarly, the  tag does not seem to work, either. At least
> the image never gets displayed on any of several Web pages I've tried
> it with.
>
> Beyond that, general Internet support seems to be lacking.  Of
> course, there could be more than meets the eye; without a manual,
> it's hard to say. The scripting dictionary is useful, but there's no
> categorization so I can't, e.g., easily find a list of all
> net-related stuff. I keep having to follow "see also" links that
> sometimes don't go anywhere useful and often don't have links back to
> where I was. Or at least so it seems.
>
> None of this should be seen as an indictment of Revolution, though.
> As a long-time HyperTalker, I'm really excited by what I see here. I
> am hoping to find out that I'm just wrong about this stuff and that
> Revolution can in fact be the development tool I seek. But after a
> few hours of exploration, I'm inclined to think it's not yet ready
> for prime time for the kinds of apps I want to build.
>
> Anyone have a different experience or some insights to share?
> --
> -.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-
> Dan Shafer
> Technology Visionary - Technology Assessment - Documentation
> "Looking at technology from every angle"
> http://www.danshafer.com
> 831-392-1127 Voice - 831-401-2531 Fax
>
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Réf. TIP : Placing a group onto multiple cards

[pierre . Delain]

Geoff,



What is the easiest way to script your TIP?





Pierre Delain





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Re: License issue

[Kevin Miller]

On 8/4/02 8:10 am, Ben Rubinstein <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

>> Here's a relavant quote from the FAQ that relartes directly to my business:
>> 
>> "I'm a shareware developer / consultant / retail software developer and I'm
>> going to ship thousands of copies. Do I need a license?"
>> 
>> "No."
>> 
>> End of issue from my perspective.
> 
> I agree that there are many classes of use to which this doesn't apply.  And
> if it was truly intended - and applied - only to covering Rev support costs
> in large companies it may well be appropriate (thought there are other ways
> to solve that particular problem).  And if that was all it was, I could also
> pass it off as having no relevance to me, because I am not in that
> situation.
> 
> However, in both the formulations we have seen so far it appears that the
> net has been cast considerably wider, and as far as I can see in the current
> writing it looks a lot like it could affect me, and in very unclear ways.
> So I do rather urgently want clarification.  Kevin, please can you answer
> some questions?

The license is intended to cover the case where we provide custom support
services (e.g. on site support) or other custom options to a specific large
account.  It is something we would negotiate with them on a case by case
basis depending on their needs.

The agreement did get reworded somewhat last week - the substance was
changed a little, primarily because the complexity of some aspects of it
confused more people than we expected, and the wording was changed a lot to
make it clear for all.  However, the point of this change was primarily (and
indeed is now exclusively) to allow us to provide better support to meet the
specific needs of larger organizations.

I'd also like to say that at no stage would we apply these new terms
backwards to existing license holders, except on a voluntary basis.  Once
you purchase a new license it would be on new terms, but we certainly
wouldn't consider backwards applying some new clause to our existing user
base.  We do however give you the option to volunteer to buy new on-site
support, or the option to volunteer for a free upgrade from your Standard
Edition to the new Small Business Edition which includes updates for a year
(from date of your original purchase).

I will agree that the wording of the new license when first introduced
wasn't completely clear, and that some aspects of it did get changed
slightly (and over a period of just a day or so) before we shipped - though
primarily the changes that have taken place have been to the wording and it
still applies to the main group of people we are targeting it at.  Like any
other company, we do sometimes publish the odd new policy that doesn't go
over as well as we would like or needs reworded.  For any confusion, I
apologize again.  That said, I don't entirely understand how the thread of
"royalties" got started given that the FAQ did clearly state that we were
not charging royalties right from the start, but anyway...

Finally, this list is not really the best place to discuss this kind of
issue.  This is the "use-revolution" mailing list, not the
"improve-revolution" mailing list.  The latter list (which is about to
become available for Professional customers only), or my mail box, would be
appropriate.  I do listen to, read and consider everything that gets sent to
me, and act on as much possible.  If anyone has any further comments, then
please feel free to send them directly to me <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>.

Kind regards,

Kevin

Kevin Miller <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> 
Runtime Revolution Limited - The Solution for Software Development
Tel: +44 (0) 870 747 1165.  Fax: +44 (0)1639 830 707.


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Re: rev conference

[Rod McCall]

>>Has anyone given any thought to putting together a run rev conference? I 
>>for one would be willing to attend this type of event. I'll bet we could 
>>learn a lot from each other.
>>
>>Anybody interested in trying to get this organized? Having it run just 
>>before or just after a MacWorld might make it possible for folks to fit 
>>in their schedules and budgets.


Hi everyone,

We are currently examining various options for WWDC and MacWorld. If anyone 
has specific ideas on what they would like for MacWorld (as we have more 
time to plan this) you should contact myself or Kevin. Ideas for workshops, 
social events and just about anything else are welcome so please feel free 
to get in touch.

Kind regards,

Rod


Rod McCall
Runtime Revolution Ltd 
91 Hanover Street, Edinburgh,  EH2 1DJ, UK
tel: +44 (0) 870 747 1165 fax: +44 (0) 131 718 4334
"The Solution for Software Development "
  (Mac/Windows/Linux/Unix)
Free trial download available.

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progress bar

[yves COPPE]

Hi,


I'm fighting with Rev to make a window with a progress bar appearing 
in the front of a stack during a loop.
i can't.
For hypercard, there are many different XCMDs doing the job.
Can someone help me explaining how to proceed ?

I start with a genearal script

put the number of cds of this stack into tCards
repeat with x = 1 to tCards
-- the script calling the new stack with the progression bar
--  my script : go to cd x ...
end repeat
...
...



thanks.
-- 
Greetings.

Yves COPPE

Email : [EMAIL PROTECTED]
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Re: progress bar

[Klaus Major]

Bonjour mon ami :-)

ca va bien ?

> Hi,

> I'm fighting with Rev to make a window with a progress bar appearing in 
> the front of a stack during a loop.

please stop fighting :-)

> i can't.

Yet !

> For hypercard, there are many different XCMDs doing the job.
> Can someone help me explaining how to proceed ?
>
> I start with a genearal script
>
> put the number of cds of this stack into tCards
> repeat with x = 1 to tCards
>-- the script calling the new stack with the progression bar
>--  my script : go to cd x ...
> end repeat
> ...
> ...
>
>
>
> thanks.
> -- Greetings.
>
> Yves COPPE

just to be sure: you have stack A where you want to do something on all 
cards and
stack B, where a progress-bar should display the progress of these 
actions ?

OK, here we go:

on xxx
put the number of cds of this stack into tCards
put the long name of sb "le_progresse" of cd x of stack "B" into 
le_prog
## this put something like "scrollbar id 1003 of cd id 1004 of stack 
xxx" into the var,
### so you can refer to it with just a single word ;-), makes not 
much sense in this
   ### example, but you get the picture...

set the endvalue of le_prog to tCards
 ## so you don't have to count before ;-)

palette "B"
##or whatsoever...

repeat with x = 1 to tCards
set cursor to busy
### so you have this nice spinning beach-ball

set the thumbpos of le_prog to x
### set the progressbar
### do your card-stuff here
### if possible, do NOT go to cd x, this will speed up things 
heavily :-)
###  my script : go to cd x ...
end repeat
close stack "B"
end xxx


Hope this helps.


Regards/Au revoir

Klaus Major
[EMAIL PROTECTED]

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Nasty script stays disobedient

[Terry Vogelaar]

I have a script that makes a button on another stack. Making a new button
automatically selects the pointer tool, but afterwards the browse tool
should be selected again.

That is where it gets annoying. When I add 'choose browse tool' in that
script, the pointer tool stays selected. When I repeat it a few times, the
pointer tool stays selected. Even when I use all-capitals, enlarge the font
size and use bold for that sentence in the script editor, it won't listen.

That nasty little script should take an example form the message box! I only
once have to type 'choose browse tool' et voila! No problemos!

Should I spank it? If so, how and where?

Terry

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Re: Nasty script stays disobedient

[Klaus Major]

Dag Terry,

> I have a script that makes a button on another stack. Making a new 
> button
> automatically selects the pointer tool, but afterwards the browse tool
> should be selected again.
>
> That is where it gets annoying. When I add 'choose browse tool' in that
> script, the pointer tool stays selected. When I repeat it a few times, 
> the
> pointer tool stays selected. Even when I use all-capitals, enlarge the 
> font
> size and use bold for that sentence in the script editor, it won't 
> listen.

The scripts are totally deaf, unfortunately... :-)

> That nasty little script should take an example form the message box! I 
> only
> once have to type 'choose browse tool' et voila! No problemos!

This look like a bug.

It should work, but doesn't, even with the latest version...

Please bug-report it.

> Should I spank it? If so, how and where?

Yes, hard and "op de bloote kunt" ;-)

> Terry


Hope this helps...


Regards/Tot kijk


Klaus Major
[EMAIL PROTECTED]

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How import icon of a file in a stack ?

[Ludovic Thébault]

If i use the getresource function, i've only text data and i don't know
how to transform it in an image;

If i use the Application Overview to place ICON resource or icl8
resource in the stack, nothing appear in the "image chooser" of the
stack.

btw, i want to import icon by script.

The Geticon XCMD, by F. rinaldi, doesn't work in Revolution, else. I work on MacOS X.

Thanks
-- 
Ludovic THEBAULT
(Sorry for my pr english :-)
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Re: Revolution Book

[Judy Perry]

Interestingly enough, there was a study on this very issue that used a
Hypercard stack called HyperHolmes.  The general findings were that while
the mechanics of searching and retrieving information are faster when done
by a machine rather than by a human, humans still prefer to read books
because:

  *we read faster from printed material than online.
   --> screen refresh rates, resolution, glare, ...

  *we already know _how_ to use books.
   --> do I look for the "help" menu?  Click here?  Click there?

  *No easy conversion of user habits from books to online info:
  --> dogearing of pages, scribbling in margins, hiliting of text...

  *Convenience.
  --> can read in bed, on the bus/plane/train, ...

Regards,

Judy Perry

On Mon, 8 Apr 2002, Edmund Boyd wrote:

> I agree with Steve. I only just discovered RR, after being a regular
> HyperCard user for 15 years or thereabouts. Making the transition
> would be SO much easier if there were a decent book or manual.
> Personally, I don't like online manuals. I can't read them in bed or
> in the armchair.

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Re: clipboard extension--not possible?

[Steve L]

Hi,

So, should I gather from the the lack of response to
this original question, that it is not possible to do
with Rev?

I just find it hard to believe that there is not away
to do this, there are hundreds of clipboard extensions
programs on the market and offered in shareware; how
are they doing this?

If it is not possible to do in Rev, please, someone
let me know.  Then I'll can my project, so I don't
waste anymore time trying to do something that may not
be possible.

Thanks

Steve

--- Steve L <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Hello,
> 
> Iam trying to put together a clipboard extension
> program with Rev, however, I am having the following
> problem (I am sure to do with the lack of my
> experience):
> 
> I used the "copyKey" scripting in Rev to
> intercept/take over when the copy command keys (ctrl
> &
> insert) are pressed on the keyboard; this works fine
> when the Rev program is the program that is focused,
> however, once it is minimized or the focus goes to
> anothor program, it no longer intercepts the copy
> command keys (ctrl & insert).
> 
> How is it possible to accomplish this?  There must
> be
> a way, as there are a ton of clipboard extension
> programs that do just that; they are usally located
> in
> the system tray, when running, I don't know if this
> has anything to do with it or not.
> 
> Thanks
> 
> Steve
> 
> 
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Re: Nasty script stays disobedient

[Victor Eijkhout]

At 12:03 -0400 8/4/2002, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
>This look like a bug.
>
>It should work, but doesn't, even with the latest version...
>
>Please bug-report it.

I did. Several weeks ago. I'm underwhelmed that it wasn't fixed in 
the final release.

Here's the workaround:

At 21:45 -0800 5/4/2002, Geoff Canyon wrote:
>send "choose browse tool" to me in 1 tick


>  > Should I spank it? If so, how and where?
>
>Yes, hard and "op de bloote kunt" ;-)

Ahem.

s/u/o/ if you please.

-- 
Victor Eijkhout <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
tel: 865 974 9308 (W), 865 673 6998 (H), 865 974 8296 (F)
http://www.cs.utk.edu/~eijkhout/
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Newbie question

[Edmund Boyd]

I'm new to RR, but have long experience with HyperCard. After playing 
with RR for a few days, I've come across an issue (problem?) that 
would affect how useful it might be to me.

I'm interested in compiling a database application (using cards as 
records) for Windows (I use a Mac), but compiled stacks don't seem to 
be able to add new cards. Am I missing something obvious? Must data 
be held in a text file and imported at startup? (I don't want to use 
an external database as Valentina is too expensive for me to license.)

Eddie
-- 
http://www.isle-of-bute.net/
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Re: progress bar

[Klaus Major]

Bonsoir Yves,

>
> ...
> Dear klaus,
>
> Try this :

no, i won't ;-)

But you should try this:

> on mouseUp
>   put the number of cds of this stack into tcards
>   put the long name of sb "le_progresse" of cd 1 of stack "B" into 
> le_prog
>   set the endvalue of le_prog to tcards
>   palette "B"
>   repeat with x = 1 to tcards
> set cursor to busy
> set the thumbpos of le_prog to x

#!  go cd x ###not necessary

> put return & fld "test"  of cd i after myVar
###! OF CD I :-)

> wait 1 sec --just to see what happens !
## Yes, MC is too fast :-)

>   end repeat
>   go cd 1 ### no more necessary
>   filter myVar with "*?"
>   close stack "B"
>   answer myVar
> end mouseUp


> So I want something that
> 1) show the progression of stack B
> 2) doesn't show the progression from card to card in stack A
>
> is it possible ?
>
> thanks.
> -- Greetings.
> Yves COPPE

Sure, see above

Au revoir

Klaus

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Re: Newbie question

[Klaus Major]

Hi Eddie,

> I'm new to RR, but have long experience with HyperCard. After playing 
> with RR for a few days, I've come across an issue (problem?) that would 
> affect how useful it might be to me.
>
> I'm interested in compiling a database application (using cards as 
> records) for Windows (I use a Mac), but compiled stacks don't seem to 
> be able to add new cards. Am I missing something obvious? Must data be 
> held in a text file and imported at startup? (I don't want to use an 
> external database as Valentina is too expensive for me to license.)
>
> Eddie

standalones (compiled applications) cannot be saved.
Neither on a Mac nor on Windows...

But you can save stacks that are not part of the standalone.

So keep your stack outside the application and it can be saved.

No need for heavy text-data importing routines ;-)
(Depends on the amount of data, that your database will have to 
handle...)


Hope this helps.

If you need further instructions on how and why, just drop a line :-)


Regards


Klaus Major
[EMAIL PROTECTED]

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Re: Revolution Book

[Ken Norris (dialup)]

on 4/8/02 8:30 AM, Judy Perry at [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

> Interestingly enough, there was a study on this very issue that used a
> Hypercard stack called HyperHolmes.  The general findings were that while
> the mechanics of searching and retrieving information are faster when done
> by a machine rather than by a human, humans still prefer to read books
> because:
> 
> *we read faster from printed material than online.
> --> screen refresh rates, resolution, glare, ...
> 
> *we already know _how_ to use books.
> --> do I look for the "help" menu?  Click here?  Click there?
> 
> *No easy conversion of user habits from books to online info:
> --> dogearing of pages, scribbling in margins, hiliting of text...
> 
> *Convenience.
> --> can read in bed, on the bus/plane/train, ...
--
You can also add to the list:

*You always get two pages of info at once without having to 'push buttons'
or 'scroll'. 

*The _only_ truly viable replacement for a book is a notebook computer which
still has to be run on batteries or plugged into a wall socket.

*I never heard of anyone getting 'Carpal Tunnel Syndrome' from turning book
pages (although brother friars were being murdered by poison on page corners
in the Sean Connery film 'The Name of the Rose'), as opposed to using a
mouse. 

I'm sure there's more...

Anyway, FYI, I am still looking for parts, but I expect to end up with a Mac
IIci with: Accelerator card, high res video, 128mb memory, 9.1.gb drive (4
2gb partitions, the rest for VRAM). I intend to use it as a dedicated
reference machine.

I'm thinking about a Newton or Palm with ref materials on flash cards, too.

Best regards,
Ken N.

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Re: Auto-remove blank lines in a list field

[Tariel Gogoberidze]

> >I have a list field and I am trying to write a script
> >that upon "closeField" (or something appropriate),
> >will automatically check each line in the field and
> >remove/delete any blank lines in the list field;
> >
> 
> on closeField
>   filter me with "?*"
> end closeField
> --
> 
> regards,
> 
> Geoff Canyon
> [EMAIL PROTECTED]


What's the advantages of using filter with "?*" as  opposed to just
filter with "*" to remove  empty lines?.
Filter with "*" always worked fine for me but I would  love  to know if
filter with "?*" gives some  additional advantages
Thanks
T.G.
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Re: RR Book

[Steve Messimer]

on 4/8/02 7:19 AM, [EMAIL PROTECTED] at
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

> A printed version of the existing documentation is in the works. I am
> working on getting it available as fast as possible, however this could
> still be several weeks. As soon as it is available I will announce it on
> this list, as well as the website. We are well aware of the need for this
> book, and apologise for the long delay in making it available. I would ask
> for your patience for just a few weeks longer.
> 
> Regards,
> 
> Heather

Heather,

This will be great! Sign me up.  Just as an aside.  I just downloaded the
latest version of 1.1.1 today and you all ( Jeanne?) have done a fantastic
job with the new version of the online documentaion. It is so much improved
that it is really going to be useful.  :-)

This in no way negates the necessity of a paper version.  We still want to
immerse ourselves in RR whilst sitting by the fire on chilly winter
evenings.

Regards

Steve

Stephen R. Messimer
Messimer Computing, Inc
2501 14th Ave South
Escanaba, MI 49829
www.messimercomputing.com




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Re: Revolution and Internet Applications

[Scott Raney]

On Mon, 8 Apr 2002 Dan Shafer <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

> The applications I envision building over the next year or two are 
> all Internet and Web-based applications. They provide non-browser 
> approaches to dealing with information stored in Web pages and on 
> Internet sites in databases and other formats. So the Internet 
> capabilities of my tool set are crucial.

A key phrase here I think being "non-browser approaches".

> As I probe Revolution's documentation and build small test stacks, I 
> seem to be finding that this particular aspect of Revolution is not 
> (yet) well-developed.
> 
>
> For example, not only is the htmlText property very weak in terms of 
> the tag support it offers, it appears to me that it doesn't support 
> even those limited tags it claims to. Specifically, the  tag 
> set appears to be unsupported, at least under OS X. Clicking on text 
> that is connected to a link in the original Web page does not 
> generate an automatic link to the new page. I presume this could be 
> scripted but it's difficult to see how: (a) this could be a 
> general-case solution; and (b) one can claim to support a standard 
> HTML tag but not its associated behavior.

Or c) you're stuck in a browser mind set.  Automatically taking you to
another linked HTML page is *browser* behavior.  MetaCard's (and
Revolution's) way is much more flexible, albeit being less automatic.
You have to handle the linkClicked message if you want it to do
something when the user clicks on a link.

Indeed, this whole idea of "the whole world is HTML" also belies that
you're still stuck in a browser mind set.  If you're really looking
for browser alternatives, you need to start thinking of data in
formats other than HTML (i.e. as XML, or MetaCard/Revolution stacks,
or just raw bits that you manipulate in whatever way you need).

> Similarly, the  tag does not seem to work, either. At least 
> the image never gets displayed on any of several Web pages I've tried 
> it with.

Works fine here, but again, *not as a browser does it*.  You'll need
to either embed the image in the stack or download it separately.

> None of this should be seen as an indictment of Revolution, though. 
> As a long-time HyperTalker, I'm really excited by what I see here. I 
> am hoping to find out that I'm just wrong about this stuff and that 
> Revolution can in fact be the development tool I seek. But after a 
> few hours of exploration, I'm inclined to think it's not yet ready 
> for prime time for the kinds of apps I want to build.

I think it probably is, but is going to require some adjustments on
your part.  If you really want to break out of the constraints imposed
by a browser-based architecture, you've also got to give up some of
the conveniences of that approach.  In exchange you get complete
freedom of behavior, and more importantly, freedom from browser
compatibility problems.
  Regards,
Scott


Scott Raney  [EMAIL PROTECTED]  http://www.metacard.com
MetaCard: You know, there's an easier way to do that...

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Re: progress bar

[yves COPPE]

Hello,




Here is my final script and it works fine (finally, thanks Klaus)

on mouseUp
   put the number of cds of this stack into tcards
   put the long name of sb "progressbar" of cd 1 of stack 
"Progression" into le_prog
   set the endvalue of le_prog to tcards
   palette "Progression"
   repeat with x = 1 to tcards
 set cursor to busy
 set the thumbpos of le_prog to x
 set the text of fld "prompt" of stack "Progression" to\
 "Fiche : "&x&"/"&tcards&"."
 put return & fld "test" of cd x after myVar
 wait 1 sec --just to see what happens !
   end repeat
   filter myVar with "*?"
   close stack "Progression"
   answer myVar
end mouseUp


Sorry, some words are in french, but it can easily be adapted in English
-- 
Greetings.

Yves COPPE

Email : [EMAIL PROTECTED]
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Re: Revolution Book

[J. Landman Gay]

>Hi,
>
>The only thing that remains an issue for me is the lack of
>printed documentation and / or third party books on the subject. It is clear
>that there are additional sources of information because many of the
>contributors to these lists seem to be extremely knowledgeable about
>transcript and RR in general.  Where did these folks get this information?
>Was it working w MetaCard? Is there some printed documentation
available for
>Metacard?

I learned from working with MetaCard and from participating on the MC
and Rev mailing lists. But I have read many complaints about the
documentation for Revolution and it puzzled me for a long time, because
I think the Rev docs are the most complete and excellent xtalk
documentation I've seen -- equivalent to the "HyperCard, The Book"
manual, which Jeanne also helped to write. What I finally decided was
that people may not really be complaining about the documentation as it
is written, but rather about a lack of knowledge as to how the general
MetaCard/Revolution paradigm works. For people coming from HyperCard,
there are just enough differences to make the switch-over very frustrating.

I think Jeanne has done a terrific job trying to explain the differences
in the docs, and probably the first thing people should look at are the
sections that talk about that. But you are right, there is no real
equivalent to Goodman's book, which was aimed at very new HyperCard
users and which explained a lot of things that both MC and Rev docs take
for granted you already know.

I'm also not surprised that there are no general Revolution programming
books available yet. Revolution is too new for that to have happened
yet, and MetaCard was mostly available only to the Unix community until
a few years ago -- and you know how they don't do docs. :)

-- 
Jacqueline Landman Gay | [EMAIL PROTECTED]
HyperActive Software   | http://www.hyperactivesw.com
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Re: Hilite Color disobeyed

[J. Landman Gay]

Karl Petersen wrote:

>I'm really disappointed to hear the text-hilite problem may be an
>engine bug. It occurs about 70% of the time here, and causes any
>stack where the user enters text to be virtually useless.

This won't help the generic bug, but for your own stacks you can set the
stack's hilitecolor property to any color you want. It won't use the
system hilite color when you do that, but at least you can make sure
that the hilited text is readable, and by the time anyone complains to
you, maybe the engine will be fixed. :)

-- 
Jacqueline Landman Gay | [EMAIL PROTECTED]
HyperActive Software   | http://www.hyperactivesw.com
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Re: Revolution book

[Ken Norris (dialup)]

on 4/8/02 2:10 AM, Heather Williams at [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

> A printed version of the existing documentation is in the works. I am
> working on getting it available as fast as possible, however this could
> still be several weeks. As soon as it is available I will announce it on
> this list, as well as the website. We are well aware of the need for this
> book, and apologise for the long delay in making it available. I would ask
--
Halleluja!!!

Maybe I can not-be-so-time-frustrated over getting parts for my reference
computer.

Thanks for your hard work.

Ken N.

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RE: Revolution Book

[Yates, Glen]

> -Original Message-
> From: Ken Norris (dialup) [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
> 
> Anyway, FYI, I am still looking for parts, but I expect to 
> end up with a Mac
> IIci with: Accelerator card, high res video, 128mb memory, 
> 9.1.gb drive (4
> 2gb partitions, the rest for VRAM). I intend to use it as a dedicated
> reference machine.

Gee, seems like it would be easier and cheaper to just get a second monitor
for your main machine.


-Glen Yates
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Re: Revolution Book

[Michael D Mays]

J. Landman Gay of [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote the following on 4/8/02
2:33 PM

> Unix community until
> a few years ago -- and you know how they don't do docs. :)

No problemo. Just type man

michael

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Re: Auto-remove blank lines in a list field

[Geoff Canyon]

At 2:07 PM -0400 4/8/02, Tariel Gogoberidze wrote:
>> >I have a list field and I am trying to write a script
>> >that upon "closeField" (or something appropriate),
>> >will automatically check each line in the field and
>> >remove/delete any blank lines in the list field;
>> >
>> 
>> on closeField
>>   filter me with "?*"
>> end closeField
>> --
>> 
>> regards,
>> 
>> Geoff Canyon
>> [EMAIL PROTECTED]
>
>
>What's the advantages of using filter with "?*" as  opposed to just
>filter with "*" to remove  empty lines?.
>Filter with "*" always worked fine for me but I would  love  to know if
>filter with "?*" gives some  additional advantages
>Thanks
>T.G.

Interesting -- Since * matches zero or more of any character, I would have thought 
that "*" would match the empty string, and thus wouldn't filter anything. It appears I 
was mistaken.
-- 

regards,

Geoff Canyon
[EMAIL PROTECTED]

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Calculation question

[Barry Levine]

Greetings Listas!

I have a stack with a field that will contain a math problem - something 
like "4+2-3*2/3" (no quotes). How can I do a calculation that will give 
me the answer? I will always know the text that is going into the field 
as I "put" it there during a handler. I was looking for something like 
"calculate field "myField". Note that the operators will not always be 
consistently placed; in other words, the "+" may appear anywhere within 
the text (or not at all); same goes for the other operators (although 
there will always be at least -one- operator in the equation).

Thanks,
Barry

Barry Jay Levine
"The Mac Guy"
Macintosh Troubleshooting, System Engineering, Training,
AppleShare/OSX Server Setup, System Upgrades and Enhancements
On-Site service for K20, Business, Consumer
Phone/VoiceMail: 915-581-1105
 Fax: 915-581-8167
   eMail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]

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Re: Calculation question

[David Vaughan]

Barry

Look up "Value" in the Dictionary. I'd say it does just what you want.

e.g.
put value("4+2-3*2/3")
4

regards
David

On Tuesday, April 9, 2002, at 10:00 , Barry Levine wrote:

> Greetings Listas!
>
> I have a stack with a field that will contain a math problem - 
> something like "4+2-3*2/3" (no quotes). How can I do a calculation that 
> will give me the answer? I will always know the text that is going into 
> the field as I "put" it there during a handler. I was looking for 
> something like "calculate field "myField". Note that the operators will 
> not always be consistently placed; in other words, the "+" may appear 
> anywhere within the text (or not at all); same goes for the other 
> operators (although there will always be at least -one- operator in the 
> equation).
>
> Thanks,
> Barry
> 
> Barry Jay Levine
> "The Mac Guy"
> Macintosh Troubleshooting, System Engineering, Training,
> AppleShare/OSX Server Setup, System Upgrades and Enhancements
> On-Site service for K20, Business, Consumer
> Phone/VoiceMail: 915-581-1105
> Fax: 915-581-8167
>   eMail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
>
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