Re: Anyone know how to prevent this type mismatch error?

[Ken Ray]

Rob,

I checked the code on another machine and it turns out that in some cases,
the configuration doesn't have a class, and so it fails on the line:

  if (class of configuration i of config) is (TCPIP v4 configuration) then

It's not that "TCPIP v4 configuration" is bad... it just has a problem
getting a class for the config. So it might not be an OS 9/OS X problem
after all. This happened to me on an Airport configuration (which I
discovered by asking for "the name of configuration i of config").

Try wrapping the "if" statement in a try/end try, as in:

repeat with i from 1 to count of configuration of config
  try
if (class of configuration i of config) is (TCPIP v4 configuration) then
  set cfg to configuration i of config
  set configName to name of config
  exit repeat
end if
  end try
end repeat

At least this should skip over those configurations that don't have a
class... you might want to trap an "on error" and see what the configuration
name is if you're interested.

Hope his helps,

Ken Ray
Sons of Thunder Software
Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Web Site: http://www.sonsothunder.com/


- Original Message -
From: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Saturday, October 12, 2002 5:53 PM
Subject: Re: Anyone know how to prevent this type mismatch error?


Ahhh - - - perhaps that's the problem.   I was looking for an Applescript
solution in OS 8/9 that would set the user's networking to DHCP.   So, if
this was designed to run in 10, then that sheds some light on the issue.

In the long-run, I'll need to do this on both Mac OS 9 _and_ Mac OS X.   I
was assuming that the technique would be radically different, with OS X
relying on more unix-calls.   Resources on the web that detail how to script
the networking control pane are few and far between, it seems.

>From what I gather from the script, it appears that there's some sort of
networking database that is being opened up, that contains different
networking settings.   The script appears to go through the list in the
database until it finds the active setting, and attempts to modify it to
"Use
DHCP" - - is that the correct description of what's going on?

If this script is designed to run on OS X - - - can anyone shed light on how
different the OS 9 version would be?

Thanks again for your help - - - this is indeed one of the best Listserve's
I've been on.   Folks here are very helpful and knowledgeable.

- Rob

In a message dated 10/11/02 9:01:45 PM, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:


> Rob,
>
> What version of AppleScript/Mac OS are you using? It is possible that this
> configuration didn't work properly in earlier versions...
>
> The reason I say that is that since I was the original poster of the
> AppleScript (to which Sarah added her valuable additions), and it worked
> for
> me on an iMac running OS 10.1...
>
> Let us know,
>
> Ken Ray
> Sons of Thunder Software
> Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Web Site: http://www.sonsothunder.com/
>
> - Original Message -
> From: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> Sent: Friday, October 11, 2002 5:53 PM
> Subject: Re: Anyone know how to prevent this type mismatch error?
>
>
> Sarah - - - thanks so much for this script. I've hit one stumbling block
> that's keeping it from running, and no one seems to know how to fix it - -
> -
> was wondering if someone on this list might:
>
> The problem is with this line:
>
> if (class of configuration i of config) is (TCPIP v4 configuration)
>
> appleScript is complaining of a type mismatch problem. I thought perhaps
> putting
>
> if (class of configuration i of config) as string is (TCPIP v4
> configuration)
>
> might fix the problem, but that gave me a syntax error. I've only been
> scripting for about 2 months. Would anyone happen to know how to solve
> such
> type-matching errors? The impression I get is that you can't compare a
> string to a class.
>
> - Rob
>
> In a message dated 10/2/02 7:08:18 PM, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
>
> >
> > Hi Rob,
> >
> > Here is Ken's script with an added section that changes the relevant
> > setting to DHCP. As Ken mentioned, this just handles the first TCP
> > configuration it finds, so you might need to add a check for other
> > configs, but it should get you started:
> >
> > set configMethod to ""
> > set configName to ""
> > set cfg to ""
> >
> > tell application "Network Setup Scripting"
> > open database
> > set config to current configuration set
> > repeat with i from 1 to count of configuration of config
> > if (class of configuration i of config) is (TCPIP v4 configuration)
> > then
> > set cfg to configuration i of config
> > set configName to name of config -- so you can check the name
> > to see
> > if it's the right one
> > exit repeat
> > end if
> > end repeat
> > set configMethod to configuration method of cfg
> >
> > try
> > if configMethod ≠ "DHCP" then
> > begin transaction
> > set protec to get protection of configuration method of cfg
> > if protec = locked then return "

A good project for Rev?

[pixelbird]

Hello group,

I do landscape maintainance in the season. One of my
accounts is a resort that has never had a landscape
maintainance management program, the results of which is
that much of it fell into a weedy, tangled, out-of control
mess before I got to it. They once tried to put 2000 trout
into the pond...guess what happened...

I'm getting software for dealing with my business, but
_they_ need some simple documentation. Vertical aerial views
of the property with plat overlays showing the undergound
wiring, irrigation plumbing, outdoor lighting, permanent
tree and shrub identifiers, curtain drains, and, especially,
the pond. Then I'll need to tie all those elements (and
more) to maintainance schedules and product guides
(fertilizers, nutrient and pest prevention ammendments,
etc.), labor, equipment, and supply costs.

This stuff will be repleat with photos, area maps, notes and
suggestions, historical documentation (dates and kinds of
fertilizer applications to specific areas, for example).

What I'll need to do is deal with stuff in my landscape
software, then pass pertinent info to their Rev app to keep
it updated. That could be done online, I think. No deep dark
secrets going on.   

That's probably way more detail than you wanted to see, but
do you think it would make a good Rev project?

TIA,
Ken N.








-
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running command-line programs from rev

[Gareth Jones]

Hello, everyone

I've been reading about a command-line program that Apple included 
with OS X called "ditto." It has all the capabilities needed for a 
nice backup program. Revolution, on the other hand, has all the GUI 
needed to make a nice front end for it. Is there some way to send a 
command from Revolution to a command-line program like ditto?

-Gareth Jones
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Re: Speech with Windows XP

[curry]

To avoid any confusion my inquiries on this topic might otherwise 
lead to (though not entirely my own fault, but rather because 
Microsoft didn't update their 4.0 SAPI web page and I didn't have XP 
yet to try myself) I've heard from Tuviah and he said, yes, the 
external works with XP as long as the 4.0 SAPI and voices are 
installed. That's really great to hear. So Speech for Windows--all 
Windows--is no problem. All  right!

Curry

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Re: Saving stuff in a standalone

[Ken Ray]

Alan,

You have a lot of questions, and I'll try to answer them as best as I can.
I've used xTalk languages since HyperCard 1.0 so I know where you are coming
from... the idea of a "standalone" really didn't hit the scene until almost
the end of HyperCard's existence; so many people were just using the Home
Stack as a launching ground for getting to their own stacks, that it didn't
seem to be very important at the time, since HC was distributed for free
with new macs, you could be assured that everyone had it, so why make a
standalone? Why not just give 'em your stack and let them double-click it?

However times have changed since then, and we're using a tool that allows us
not only to distribute applications that look and act like "real" apps
(something HC had a lot of trouble with), but also across platforms as well.

So here goes my comments:

> Topic 1:
> Postponing the question of implementation for a moment, I'm am sure that
> I do not understand the metaphor of how the external files (stacks or
> text) are actually utilized.  In a simple database arrangement with a
> standalone as a front end, is all the data from the external file loaded
> at once , in effect creating a new card for each record when the file is
> loaded with say a thousand or so cards now held in memory?  Or is the
> standalone only comprised of one (or more) "template" cards which load
> the data stored in the external file one at a time as needed and stores
> newly created or revised data one record at a time in a similar manner?
> If the latter is the case, how would one go about searching and indexing
> such data; reasonably straightforward tasks IF the data is stored in the
> stack as in a traditional Hypercard arrangement?

OK. Think about a simple address book stack (like the one that came with
HC). All the data was stored on cards, and if you made a new card, filled in
the fields and quit, your data was saved. Simple. However now, if you make a
standalone, you can't modify the contents of the standalone, so how can you
save your data? There are a number of methods, but the simplest one is as
follows: Using the Address Book stack as an example for a moment, imaging
that your "standalone" is nothing more than an application (like the
HyperCard application was) to launch your stack. So if you create *two*
stacks, one small one that you will turn into a standalone application, and
a second one that will be "opened" from the standalone and contains your
Address Book cards, you are set... the application can't modify itself
(which is good since there's no need to in this example anyway), and the
plain "stack" which is opened by the standalone, can modify itself as much
as it likes. So your "stub" stack simply says:

  on openStack
open stack "Address Book.mc"
  end openStack

In your Address Book stack, the only thing you'll need to do a bit
differently than in the HC days is that you need to explicitly save changes
to your stack before quitting, with "save this stack", otherwise changes
won't be saved. However the construction of the Address Book stack is nearly
identical to the original HC one (background fields that are shared across
cards, etc.).

The concept of saving data in external files would be the same as in HC..
that is, you can open/close and read/write to text files to save data,
however this is usually used just for simple text storage (initialization
settings, configuration data, export data, etc.). It's more complicated to
map an external text file to the field structure of a multi-card
database-like stack (although you can do it with delimited data). The nice
thing about Rev in this case is that you can shortcut the reading and
writing of text files with the "put url into" and "put into url" commands.
So instead of this:

  open file "Mydata.txt"
  read from file "Mydata.txt" until eof
  put it into tData
  close file "Mydata.txt"

You have this:

  put url ("file:Mydata.txt") into tData

And the opposite is true:

  put tData into url ("file:MyData.txt")

... to write.

The nice thing about Rev is that you also have access to saving data in an
actual database (mySQL, ODBC, etc.) using the revDB external... if your data
management needs are high, you might look into this.

> I would also like to see a similar tutorial stack illustrating how
> RunRev can be used as a front end for a FileMaker database which I
> surmise could be used to store, search and print/report the data as
> needed.  When I previously asked for this on the list I was told this
> was easy and referred to 1 or 2 websites, but I was not able to locate
> the promised Rev to FileMaker sample stack.
>
> Significantly ore detailed help on both of these topics would be greatly
> appreciated.

First of all, I don't know if Rev can "front" for a FileMaker database
(unless it is done through AppleScript or if it is ODBC compliant... I
haven't used FileMaker since FileMaker Pro, so you can tell how dated I am).
I *do* know, however, that it can fron

Re: Saving stuff in a standalone

[Alan Gayne]

Tony:

Many thanks for the prompt response and the good idea about creating my 
own player standalone.  That seems like a very good start toward my 
formulating a strategy more in keeping with the RunRev paradigm rather 
than my old HC framework.

Kind regard,

Alan
On Saturday, October 12, 2002, at 09:02  PM, Troy Rollins wrote:

On 10/12/02 8:20 PM, "Alan Gayne" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:


I have also noted that whenever I first start Revolution the 
application
opens with the Pointer tool as the default setting.  What's going on
here?  Is there a simple way to make double-clicking on a stack open 
the
Revolution application with the browse tool selected as the default
setting?  What I'm trying to achieve is to have Revolution open in a
mode roughly equivalent to the "Typing" or "Painting" user level 
setting
in Hypercard.  The idea here is to perhaps be able to use a Starter Kit
version of RunRev as runtime engine for stacks that have not been built
as standalone applications - but not to give unauthorized users the
capability of mucking around with the inner workings.

Wow Alan,
That is a lot for one post. Let me preface by saying I have no Hypercard
experience at all, so seeing your questions only makes me say "oh, it 
must
appear so similar that people mistake it for the same thing." So, 
first -
don't do that. While Rev shares a lot with HC (from what I've read) it
really does want to work a bit differently. At least at the publishing 
and
distribution phase.

So, I'm not going to tackle all of your questions, at least not in this
email, but I'll start with this one.

I don't think using the starter kit as an engine for the clients is a 
good
idea. There is no need to do so, and it serves them no advantage, 
unless you
intend for them to edit your program. You can easily build a "player 
app" of
your own, or simply distribute standalones. There really is nothing to 
it.
You could do something as simple as create a stack that does nothing but
open a dialog which says "What stack do you want to run?" and allows the
users to select a stack file. That stack file would then be put into a 
"open
stack" message internally in your player. Build your player as a 
standalone,
and voila - instant player app. Really nothing to it, and it avoids your
messy starter kit problems entirely.

In addition - now, you see, that stack that you are running? It is an
external stack that is NOT the standalone... you see where this is 
going?
You can save THAT file. You can save its properties, and field data 
with a
simple save stack command.

I think that your problems are more the fact that you need to let some 
of
what you have learned before go. The scripting knowledge all still 
holds -
the distribution methods are new. Perhaps give what I've described 
here a
try, and let us know what parts are still hanging you up. I'll bet the 
light
comes on, and you are off to the races before you know it.

Cheers.
--
Troy
RPSystems, Ltd.
www.rpsystems.net

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Re: Saving stuff in a standalone

[Troy Rollins]

On 10/12/02 8:20 PM, "Alan Gayne" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

> I have also noted that whenever I first start Revolution the application
> opens with the Pointer tool as the default setting.  What's going on
> here?  Is there a simple way to make double-clicking on a stack open the
> Revolution application with the browse tool selected as the default
> setting?  What I'm trying to achieve is to have Revolution open in a
> mode roughly equivalent to the "Typing" or "Painting" user level setting
> in Hypercard.  The idea here is to perhaps be able to use a Starter Kit
> version of RunRev as runtime engine for stacks that have not been built
> as standalone applications - but not to give unauthorized users the
> capability of mucking around with the inner workings.

Wow Alan,
That is a lot for one post. Let me preface by saying I have no Hypercard
experience at all, so seeing your questions only makes me say "oh, it must
appear so similar that people mistake it for the same thing." So, first -
don't do that. While Rev shares a lot with HC (from what I've read) it
really does want to work a bit differently. At least at the publishing and
distribution phase.

So, I'm not going to tackle all of your questions, at least not in this
email, but I'll start with this one.

I don't think using the starter kit as an engine for the clients is a good
idea. There is no need to do so, and it serves them no advantage, unless you
intend for them to edit your program. You can easily build a "player app" of
your own, or simply distribute standalones. There really is nothing to it.
You could do something as simple as create a stack that does nothing but
open a dialog which says "What stack do you want to run?" and allows the
users to select a stack file. That stack file would then be put into a "open
stack" message internally in your player. Build your player as a standalone,
and voila - instant player app. Really nothing to it, and it avoids your
messy starter kit problems entirely.

In addition - now, you see, that stack that you are running? It is an
external stack that is NOT the standalone... you see where this is going?
You can save THAT file. You can save its properties, and field data with a
simple save stack command.

I think that your problems are more the fact that you need to let some of
what you have learned before go. The scripting knowledge all still holds -
the distribution methods are new. Perhaps give what I've described here a
try, and let us know what parts are still hanging you up. I'll bet the light
comes on, and you are off to the races before you know it.

Cheers.
-- 
Troy
RPSystems, Ltd.
www.rpsystems.net

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Re: Saving stuff in a standalone

[Alan Gayne]

Hi to Ken, David, Jan, Yves and all others who responded to Tim Hart's 
questions regarding the techniques for saving data generated out of 
standalone apps built in RunRev.

As a Hypercard user back to 1987, the idea of a standalone stack is 
pretty much foreign to me, even though I think HC was supposed to have 
had some form of this capability since back in version 2.2.  Most of 
what I used HC for was as a number of business database applications, 
each usually with several thousands of cards but no fancy stuff like 
multimedia content.  In combination with Reports DataPro's printing, 
high speed search and index capabilities I was pretty much able to get 
this combination to do everything that I needed to get done in my 
business.  And since it was for MY business, over the years, I was 
constantly tweaking the interface, performance and output as the need 
would arise.  In any case all of my data was stored in my "application" 
stack - with HC always running in the background which also allowed me 
convenient access to other useful stackware created by others.

In the short time I've been playing with RunRev I've come to believe 
that over time I will be able to generate within the RunRev environment, 
most if not all of the "off-the-shelf" tools and goodies, available as 
"externals" for HC and the absence of which I had lamented on the list a 
few weeks ago.

As a result and in good faith reliance on the RunRev team's  promise of 
a "soon to come" report generator, I'm now just about ready to start 
thinking about recreating the business apps which have become absolutely 
essential to my business.  I said "recreate" rather than duplicate since 
RunRev clearly has far more inherent capabilities than did poor 
HyperCard, so horribly neglected by Apple.

So here's my dilemma, what is the most efficient strategy for storing 
the data of my RunRev  apps; and how do I actually implement such a 
strategy.

Topic 1:
Postponing the question of implementation for a moment, I'm am sure that 
I do not understand the metaphor of how the external files (stacks or 
text) are actually utilized.  In a simple database arrangement with a 
standalone as a front end, is all the data from the external file loaded 
at once , in effect creating a new card for each record when the file is 
loaded with say a thousand or so cards now held in memory?  Or is the 
standalone only comprised of one (or more) "template" cards which load 
the data stored in the external file one at a time as needed and stores 
newly created or revised data one record at a time in a similar manner?  
If the latter is the case, how would one go about searching and indexing 
such data; reasonably straightforward tasks IF the data is stored in the 
stack as in a traditional Hypercard arrangement?

Topic 2:
As to implementation, I have checked out the Revolution documentation 
suggested by David Vaughn but I can't seem to find the "considerable 
guidance" on the topic which he promised. What the heck am I missing?  
Is there a small step-by-step tutorial stack that would explain the 
concepts and illustrate the techniques of just how this is 
accomplished?  Such a tutorial stack need only contain a few fields and 
10 or  20 cards  (or records as the case may be) to do this.  It seems 
to me that such a basic issue should have been addressed in clearer and 
more complete manner in the documentation, but I can't seem to find this 
in either the online or printed documentation.

I would also like to see a similar tutorial stack illustrating how 
RunRev can be used as a front end for a FileMaker database which I 
surmise could be used to store, search and print/report the data as 
needed.  When I previously asked for this on the list I was told this 
was easy and referred to 1 or 2 websites, but I was not able to locate 
the promised Rev to FileMaker sample stack.

Significantly ore detailed help on both of these topics would be greatly 
appreciated.

Topic 3:
As I believe I mentioned earlier, I have been working on a variety 
useful user interface tools which are essentially involve a bit of 
"reverse engineering" many of the external goodies provided for 
Hypercard by the Reports DataPro package.  Some of these are used to 
input specific data types into any given field, such as several calender 
dialogs and user editable "askList" functions.  Others provide a number 
of search and sort as well as indexing functions.  Those of you who have 
worked with Reports DataPro will know the kind of stuff I'm talking 
about - a group of very useful tools, implemented as externals, with a 
consistent user interface and scripting approach, and which we did NOT 
have to build ourselves since they were already available in a nice neat 
reasonably priced package.

The good news is that with a little thought I have indeed found that 
most of these goodies can also be implemented as RunRev stacks which can 
be added as substacks to most RunRev projects and called as modal

Re: OT Re: REALbasic vs. Revolution

[Alex Rice]

On Saturday, October 12, 2002, at 01:21  PM, D. John Downs wrote:


So if Rev doesn't do something you want, find a C library and hack
yourself together an external.


Who has the time to learn to program C?  That's why we picked an xTalk 
in
the first place.

Looking at your website, it appears you are a musician. May you never 
have to learn C!

Nearly all professional programmers learn C eventually, out of 
necessity. Note I'm not saying that's right or good or that one's time 
could not be better utilized. :-) It just seems to be the case.

Alex Rice, Software Developer
Architectural Research Consultants, Inc.
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
[EMAIL PROTECTED]

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Setting Parameters for PlainTalk Speech

[Mac Dude]

First off, Thanks to both Jeanne and Dave Cragg for help with creating 
a folder on an FTP server!

Now, I realize this is really an AppleScript question, but i tried an 
AS mail list and got nothing, so since I know there's a knowledgeable 
bunch here...

Under Mac OS 9 I used to be able to set the Rate, Pitch and Modulation 
of a voice by embedding some simple commands ("[[rate ]]", 
"[[pBas ]]", and "[[pMod ]]"), the latter 2 no 
longer seem to work under OS X, only the rate command works.  Can 
anyone tell me how to control the voice settings?

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Re: Anyone know how to prevent this type mismatch error?

[RGould8]

Ahhh - - - perhaps that's the problem.   I was looking for an Applescript solution in OS 8/9 that would set the user's networking to DHCP.   So, if this was designed to run in 10, then that sheds some light on the issue.

In the long-run, I'll need to do this on both Mac OS 9 _and_ Mac OS X.   I was assuming that the technique would be radically different, with OS X relying on more unix-calls.   Resources on the web that detail how to script the networking control pane are few and far between, it seems.

>From what I gather from the script, it appears that there's some sort of networking database that is being opened up, that contains different networking settings.   The script appears to go through the list in the database until it finds the active setting, and attempts to modify it to "Use DHCP" - - is that the correct description of what's going on?

If this script is designed to run on OS X - - - can anyone shed light on how different the OS 9 version would be?

Thanks again for your help - - - this is indeed one of the best Listserve's I've been on.   Folks here are very helpful and knowledgeable.

- Rob

In a message dated 10/11/02 9:01:45 PM, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:


Rob,

What version of AppleScript/Mac OS are you using? It is possible that this
configuration didn't work properly in earlier versions...

The reason I say that is that since I was the original poster of the
AppleScript (to which Sarah added her valuable additions), and it worked for
me on an iMac running OS 10.1...

Let us know,

Ken Ray
Sons of Thunder Software
Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Web Site: http://www.sonsothunder.com/

- Original Message -
From: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Friday, October 11, 2002 5:53 PM
Subject: Re: Anyone know how to prevent this type mismatch error?


Sarah - - - thanks so much for this script.   I've hit one stumbling block
that's keeping it from running, and no one seems to know how to fix it - - -
was wondering if someone on this list might:

The problem is with this line:

if (class of configuration i of config) is (TCPIP v4 configuration)

appleScript is complaining of a type mismatch problem.   I thought perhaps
putting

if (class of configuration i of config) as string is (TCPIP v4
configuration)

might fix the problem, but that gave me a syntax error.   I've only been
scripting for about 2 months.   Would anyone happen to know how to solve
such
type-matching errors?   The impression I get is that you can't compare a
string to a class.

- Rob

In a message dated 10/2/02 7:08:18 PM, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:

>
> Hi Rob,
>
> Here is Ken's script with an added section that changes the relevant
> setting to DHCP. As Ken mentioned, this just handles the first TCP
> configuration it finds, so you might need to add a check for other
> configs, but it should get you started:
>
> set configMethod to ""
> set configName to ""
> set cfg to ""
>
> tell application "Network Setup Scripting"
> open database
> set config to current configuration set
> repeat with i from 1 to count of configuration of config
> if (class of configuration i of config) is (TCPIP v4 configuration)
> then
> set cfg to configuration i of config
> set configName to name of config -- so you can check the name
> to see
> if it's the right one
> exit repeat
> end if
> end repeat
> set configMethod to configuration method of cfg
>
> try
> if configMethod ≠ "DHCP" then
> begin transaction
> set protec to get protection of configuration method of cfg
> if protec = locked then return "Setting is locked"
> set the configuration method of cfg to DHCP
> end transaction
> end if
> on error errMsg number errNum
> close database
> return "Error: " & errMsg & " " & errNum
> end try
>
> close database
> return "Setting changed to DHCP"
> end tell
>
> Note: there is a line above that uses the Mac's Not-equal sign
> (option-equal): if configMethod **not-equal** "DHCP" then
> It may not translate via email. Also beware of long lines wrapping. If
> you want me to send you the actual script, send me an email off-list.
>
> Sarah
>
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>


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ODBC connectivity in CGI

[Sjoerd Op 't Land]

Did anyone manage to let a MetaTalk/Transcript CGI-script talk to an ODBC
database?

I would think of a continuous running standalone that talks to the database
when it gets a command for that from a CGI-script. Did anyone make such a
standalone already? Or another solution?

Thanks in advance for everything that might help,
Sjoerd

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Re: The Transcendental GUI

[Troy Rollins]

>> If you know of an application that is popular, runs on at least two
>> platforms, and takes significant liberties with the native UI, I'd love to
>> take a look at it.
> Does Bryce count?
> 
> Judy
> 

Personally, I would say Bryce counts, although I'd add that I don't believe
that its interface is very good, or that it can be attributed to its
success. In fact, Kai Krause, while he is undeniably a true artist, is a
perfect example of over-doing an interface. Many of the programs that came
from that company were not usable in a practical, professional environment.
While the underlying engines had remarkable power and capability, I have
never before experienced such lack of usability.

We constantly joke about that sort of design mentality - "of course it makes
sense that if you want to rotate the background you have to wiggle your
mouse back and forth over the little 3D pyramid that only appears after the
program thinks you've become a level 2 master of psychedelic gradient
blends." The interface itself is a true obstacle to productivity.

Bryce has any level of success because it is powerful - and despite its
interface. The same can be said for Poser and its ilk. None of those
programs are recognized very well within the professional graphics community
- even though they have technology and horsepower that says they could have
been. Those professionals who do use them... generally do so "on the sly",
because they are considered "consumer software" - due entirely to the
non-standard interfaces they have. The interface itself presents an
inhibitor to professional workflow.

Yes. I would say that Bryce is a perfect example. Great software, beautiful
artistic interface. Under recognized for what it can actually do. Which is
too bad, because the results possible from those tools are quite amazing.
Tools like that, with the same capabilities, but with a more standard
interface would do much better in the professional graphics communities.

My $.02
-- 
Troy
RPSystems, Ltd.
www.rpsystems.net

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Re: The Transcendental GUI (was a thread from REALbasic vs. Revolution)

[miscdas]

Rob, 

So no keyboard driven options?  I am a touch typist, and have little love 
for the mouse. I find it particularly annoying that much of the Web REQUIRES 
mouse actions. I make use of keyboard shortcuts (when available) in all my 
apps. I wish all of them had easy keyboard navigation as well as keyboard 
menu shortcuts. 


Rob Cozens writes:
[snip]
3.  My application has a limited market (wineries) 

What I have done is to reduce a very complicated activity into a series of point and click actions that can be completed without typing on the 
keyboard.  Looking at competitors' products, I don't think the 
functionality can be replicated in a standard menu-driven application 
without suffering significant setbacks in ease of learning, navigation, 
and use.

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Re: The Transcendental GUI (was a thread from REALbasic vs. Revolution)

[Judy Perry]

Does Bryce count?

Judy

On Sat, 12 Oct 2002, Richard Gaskin wrote:

> If you know of an application that is popular, runs on at least two
> platforms, and takes significant liberties with the native UI, I'd love to
> take a look at it.

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Re: Speech with Windows XP

[Judy Perry]

Yes, indeed there are, including some of my students who are choosing to
use Rev this term for their projects.  Speech -- because it can be done in
Hypercard -- is a requirement.  I've told them that they can use Rev
because I know there's supposed to be a workaround for Windows speech, but
that it's up to them to find out how to do it.

I'm hoping someone will answer the question as well, for their sake ;-)

Judy

On Sat, 12 Oct 2002, curry wrote:

> I assume there are surely some Revolution users who use
> text-to-speech in cross-platform projects?  I would really appreciate
> your tips if anyone knows a good way.

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Re: OT Re: REALbasic vs. Revolution

[D. John Downs]

On 10.11.02 10:18 PM, "[EMAIL PROTECTED]"
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

> So if Rev doesn't do something you want, find a C library and hack
> yourself together an external.

Who has the time to learn to program C?  That's why we picked an xTalk in
the first place.

-- 
D. John Downs   http://www.davidjohndowns.com


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Re: Date Items

[Yves Coppé]

Yves,

Check out the "centuryCutoff" property... perhaps that will do what you
want.

Ken Ray
Sons of Thunder Software
Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Web Site: http://www.sonsothunder.com/




A command I didn't know and which does exactly what I hoped.

Thanks.
--
Greetings.

Yves COPPE

Email : [EMAIL PROTECTED]
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Re: Date Items

[Jeanne A. E. DeVoto]

At 8:43 AM -0700 10/12/2002, Yves Coppé wrote:
>set useSystemDate to true
>put "05/06/1927" into startDate
>convert startDate to dateitems
>set useSystemDate to false
>answer startDate
>
>the answer is "2027,06,05,0,0,7"
>I watch "1927,06,05,0,0,7"
>
>so the person with this birthdate is 100 years younger (not yet born !!)
>Fine 

;-)

If you set the centuryCutoff to 02 (or any number less than 27), you will
get the correct result of 1927. I think this is a bug (if you have 4-digit
years turned on then the system date should respect them and not ignore the
century), but this will work around it and avoid making people 100 years
too young.

--
Jeanne A. E. DeVoto ~ [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Runtime Revolution Limited - The Solution for Software Development
http://www.runrev.com/


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Re: Date Items

[Ken Ray]

Yves,

Check out the "centuryCutoff" property... perhaps that will do what you
want.

Ken Ray
Sons of Thunder Software
Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Web Site: http://www.sonsothunder.com/

- Original Message -
From: "Yves Coppé" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Saturday, October 12, 2002 10:43 AM
Subject: Date Items


> Hi,
>
>
> I experiment a strange behavior
>
> I use a French system Mac OS X 10.1.5
>
>
>
> in continental date system, "05/06/1927" =
> june the fifth of 1927
>
> When I type the following code :
>
> set useSystemDate to true
> put "05/06/1927" into startDate
> convert startDate to dateitems
> set useSystemDate to false
> answer startDate
>
>
> the answer is "2027,06,05,0,0,7"
> I watch "1927,06,05,0,0,7"
>
> so the person with this birthdate is 100 years younger (not yet born !!)
> Fine 
>
> How can I get the good answer !
>
> Any idea ???
>
> Thanks for your help
> --
> Greetings.
>
> Yves COPPE
>
> Email : [EMAIL PROTECTED]
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Re: Date Items

[Rob Cozens]

How can I get the good answer !


Salut Yves!

Create the dateItem string yourself from the birth date:

get birthYear&comma&birthMonth&comma&birthDay&",0,0,0,0"

Assuming birthYear includes the century, that's it.

If you need the correct day of week in item seven,

convert it to dateItems

following the first statement will do the job.
--

Rob Cozens
CCW, Serendipity Software Company
http://www.oenolog.com/who.htm

"And I, which was two fooles, do so grow three;
Who are a little wise, the best fooles bee."

from "The Triple Foole" by John Donne (1572-1631)
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Re: The Transcendental GUI (was a thread from REALbasic vs.Revolution)

[Rob Cozens]

If you know of an application that is popular, runs on at least two
platforms, and takes significant liberties with the native UI, I'd love to
take a look at it.


Hi Richard,

At the moment I can only give you item 3.  As soon as my HyperCard to 
Revolution conversion is completed (1 Jan 2003?), I can give you 
items 2 & 3.  My application has a limited market (wineries); so it 
will never gain "popularity" awards...except perhaps within the 
industry.  http://www.oenolog.com/

What I have done is to reduce a very complicated activity into a 
series of point and click actions that can be completed without 
typing on the keyboard.  Looking at competitors' products, I don't 
think the functionality can be replicated in a standard menu-driven 
application without suffering significant setbacks in ease of 
learning, navigation, and use.

I'm not sure how this fits into your research, but I suggest you 
focus some time on the issue of pull down & select vs point & click. 
I watched a lot of non programmers design stacks in my days chairing 
the local HyperCard SIG, and I'd be willing to bet at least 8 out of 
10 chose button-driven interfaces over menu-driven ones.  I have 
archived somewhere several hundred stacks I downloaded from AOL for 
Jacque Gay, and I would be willing to wager that, of all stacks not 
created by Apple, at least 75% more contain Next/Previous buttons 
than contain Next/Previous menuItems.  Most major apps now supplement 
pull-down menus with point-&-click palettes, and point-&-click is 
basic to web browsing.

The pull-down menu has been the mainstay of the GUI for over a 
quarter of a century.  It's time for something better.
--

Rob Cozens
CCW, Serendipity Software Company
http://www.oenolog.com/who.htm

"And I, which was two fooles, do so grow three;
Who are a little wise, the best fooles bee."

from "The Triple Foole" by John Donne (1572-1631)
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RE: OT Re: REALbasic vs. Revolution

[Rob Cozens]

One thing I do admire about Windows, is the lack of a 'holy ordained look'
(just my opinion).


I'm beginning to develop an appreciation for that myself, Chipp.  But 
I see almost as much concern for a better XP look & feel as for 
improved OSX l&f on this list.
--

Rob Cozens
CCW, Serendipity Software Company
http://www.oenolog.com/who.htm

"And I, which was two fooles, do so grow three;
Who are a little wise, the best fooles bee."

from "The Triple Foole" by John Donne (1572-1631)
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Re: REALbasic vs. Revolution

[Rob Cozens]

This is where the Mac shines versus Windows, in my opinion.


Loren, et al:

I owned an original 64K IBM PC, but left the Intel world before 
Windows.  In retrospect, it would be a lot easier for me to respond 
if I had as much experience supporting Windows users as I have 
supporting Mac users.

While it seems to me Windows users encounter more difficulties with 
installation & reconfiguration issues than Mac users, I have seen 
little direct evidence that they have more difficulty learning or 
using software.
--

Rob Cozens
CCW, Serendipity Software Company
http://www.oenolog.com/who.htm

"And I, which was two fooles, do so grow three;
Who are a little wise, the best fooles bee."

from "The Triple Foole" by John Donne (1572-1631)
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[OT] Re: REALbasic vs. Revolution

[Yennie]

OK... I've been holding back until I had something specific to add here. These discussions tend to reach fanatical levels, so I hope we can discuss it all the way through in a reasonable manner.

A couple of things struck me as true. For starters, let me point out that I work in several languages. I choose the one most appropriate for the job. My current project is a mingling of PHP, C/C++, Java, and MetaCard (Rev). As far as total code size, it's about 85% MetaCard, 10% C/C++, 4% Java and 1% PHP (actually one medium sized script).

For me, the following things set MetaCard aside from REALBasic FOR MY WORK:

As Scott pointed out, many of "us" that write externals for MetaCard are too busy or otherwise motivated to release them to the community. Personally, I've found it easy to write several: on the short list I've worked on VXCMD (the Valentina external), a text stemming external, an AIAT external, an SSL external, a movie rotation external, and yes... an HTML rendering external. Throw in 3 or 4 I can't mention for one reason or another, several experiments, some GPL stuff...

Wanna go deeper? Scott even licenses embedded MetaCard libraries. If I ever decide I need a MetaCard Apache module, I'll buy a license and whip one up. I've practically got open source and I don't have to compile the source!

Anyway, my point is: externals are easy to write, they DO exist, they DO fit squarely into the ordinary scripting language... there just hasn't been a market for them because 
a) people like me write them for themselves
b) they aren't in high demand anyway
c) (as Scott pointed out), they aren't as useful unless they are compiled for several platforms.

One case in point: Rev's database support. External! But here's the kicker: the external is an equal citizen with other scripting commands. For me, this has a certain valuable consequence. I have a project based on VXCMD, which preceeded RevDB by many months. If I ever decide that I need to switch to MySQL, I wrote a script wrapper in 2 hours that does the trick of translating from Valentina() calls to RevDB(). How's that for flexibility?

I can't think of a solitary plugin in REALBasic which I am jealous of. Is their wide availability a good thing? Of course!!! Is REALBasic a good tool for the right project? Of course!!! If I couldn't write externals myself, would it make a difference? YES.

Still... what I keep thinking here is of a very familiar debate.
Windows has more applications.
I own a Mac.
Go figure.

FWIW,
Brian

Date Items

[Yves Coppé]

Hi,


I experiment a strange behavior

I use a French system Mac OS X 10.1.5



in continental date system, "05/06/1927" =
june the fifth of 1927

When I type the following code :

set useSystemDate to true
put "05/06/1927" into startDate
convert startDate to dateitems
set useSystemDate to false
answer startDate


the answer is "2027,06,05,0,0,7"
I watch "1927,06,05,0,0,7"

so the person with this birthdate is 100 years younger (not yet born !!)
Fine 

How can I get the good answer !

Any idea ???

Thanks for your help
--
Greetings.

Yves COPPE

Email : [EMAIL PROTECTED]
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ODBC problem

[Bernard Devlin]

I have a repeatable problem with ODBC on Windows 2000 (SP 2).

When I try to use Rev to access a Firebird database via ODBC, I get the
following fatal error:

"The instruction at 'Ox10002b40' referenced memory at '0x0038'.  The memory
could not be 'read' "

This happens after the connection to the database has been established using
the Database Manager, and when I try to run a simple select statement.

On restarting Rev and repeating these steps, the problematic locations
referenced are different.

This only happens when I use the Easysoft drivers.  When I use an open
source driver from XTG, there is no error.  (You might just say 'well, stick
with that' - but I would like to ensure that I can use Rev, Firebird and
Easysoft - since Easysoft is the more established driver). 

I also get a different error using the open source IBPhoenix ODBC driver.  With
their driver I get:

"Invalid parameter index 0".

Again, I am just running a simple select query from the connection window that
is produced by the Database Manager.

I have tried run SQL queries against all three of these drivers with other
software, and there were no problems.  (Please let me know if you think this is
a driver problem, and I will take this up with their respective developers.)  

If you wish to reproduce the problem here are the locations for the pieces of
software I am referring to:
Firebird

http://prdownloads.sourceforge.net/firebird/Firebird-1.0.0.796-Win32.exe
Easysofthttp://www.easysoft.com/support/trials.phtml?product=2201
IBPhoenix driverhttp://www.ibphoenix.com/main.nfs?a=ibphoenix&page=ibp_60_odbc

XTG drivers http://www.xtgsystems.com/linux/ofbodbc/download.php

The XTG open source driver works, so I hope that the availability of the source
code for both that driver and the IBPhoenix driver would enable you to find out
the problem Revolution has with the latter.

I have attaced the ODBCtrace file which has the operations in the following
order:
1) successful select  using XTG driver
2) failed select using IBPhoenix driver
3) terminal failed select using Easysoft driver

Incidentally, another small problem with the query window thrown up by the
Database Manager - it defaults to ending a SQL query with a ";" at the end.  I
have found with every driver I have used that this ";" is extraneous.  It would
be better to omit it, as it will be misleading for people as the error that
ensues is unlikely to identify this as the problem.

I hope we can get this ODBC issue  resolved.  

I want to be able to use Firebird and Revolution for my business.
And I want to see Revolution become a major development platform.  I am a
profession software developer with accreditions from Microsoft, Lotus and IBM,
currently working in a J2EE environment.  But my aim is to build my business
using Revolution as one of my two principal development platforms.  It is an
amazing product.  

I am not making any more IT purchases until I can register my business in the
next week or two.  Once I have done this I will be purchasing a license for Rev.
I can always use the XTG drivers, but would prefer to know that I can choose
between these different drivers if I find there are any other problems further
down the road.

Incidentally, I have already suggested that Runrev look at incorporating native
support (as with MySQL) for Firebird.  There are many good reasons why you might
want to do this (I believe Geoff Canyon has been looking at this).

Regards,
Bernard Devlin


Revolution  3f0-448 ENTER SQLConnectW 
HDBC03411598
WCHAR * 0x03412730 [  -3] "fbXTGLocal\ 0"
SWORD   -3 
WCHAR * 0x1F7D8B70 [  -3] "**\ 0"
SWORD   -3 
WCHAR * 0x1F7D8B70 [  -3] "**\ 0"
SWORD   -3 

Revolution  3f0-448 EXIT  SQLConnectW  with return code 0 (SQL_SUCCESS)
HDBC03411598
WCHAR * 0x03412730 [  -3] "fbXTGLocal\ 0"
SWORD   -3 
WCHAR * 0x1F7D8B70 [  -3] "**\ 0"
SWORD   -3 
WCHAR * 0x1F7D8B70 [  -3] "**\ 0"
SWORD   -3 

Revolution  3f0-448 ENTER SQLAllocStmt 
HDBC03411598
HSTMT * 0012F374

Revolution  3f0-448 EXIT  SQLAllocStmt  with return code 0 (SQL_SUCCESS)
HDBC03411598
HSTMT * 0x0012F374 ( 0x03411b30)

Revolution  3f0-448 ENTER SQLPrepare 
HSTMT   03411B30
UCHAR * 0x00E10E70 [  21] "select * from country"

big pb with standAlone & MySQL

[Sylvain Le Gourriérec]

hello,
 
I really need help.
 
I develop a backoffice. Not a very difficult thing 
but I have to be very care about the relationships between the standAlone 
revolution app & MySQL.
 
Into the development environment, no pb. So, I 
build the distribution. 
 
It arrived that I got a "revdberr, restricted under 
current license" !
 
So I decided to write my script again 
:((
 
I have no more error message but only 20 rows are 
retrieved!
 
Of course I have a license.
 
 
What can I do? I waste a lot of time with 
that...
 
thanks
 
 
ps  of course, my scripts are not basic. But 
they are not very complex. The most complex function I wrote includes just 
 3 functions call!
 
 
-Sylvain 
Le Gourriérec  ——  développement  —— 
son-video-distribution   www.son-video.com - 
I am working with Windows 2000, Revolution 1.1.1, MySQL 3.23 & PHP 
4

Re: OT Re: REALbasic vs. Revolution

[Kevin Miller]

On 12/10/02 7:03 am, Scott Raney <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

> There's definitely some confusion here: these are not what would be
> called "plug-ins" in RR, they'd be externals.  All of these things
> *could* be done with externals, many of them quite straightforwardly,
> at least if you know C and can find some sample code for them.  If
> there is anything RR lacks here in relation to RB, it's the installed
> base that likes to develop and release these kinds of things.  There
> are at least three reasons for this I think:

Right.  And I would put in a fourth reason, in front of all of these.
Revolution has only been shipping for a year.  Look at the history of just
about any new technology: it takes time for all this stuff to come together.
When you look at this in the context of our original time projections for
this sort of thing to develop, we're doing just fine.

> As for the specific elements on your list, most of our customers (and
> potential customers) don't need 3D, so that will probably have to wait

Note this isn't an RR specific statement (I can't make one at this time).

> But sheets and animated buttons are
> already done for the upcoming release, SSL is on the to-do list for
> the release after that, USB and Firewire should be straightforward at
> least on Mac OS X given the existing "open driver" feature (though
> we've had very few requests for these, and very little interest even
> in "open driver" itself), and RR is already working on some of the QT
> recording features.

There is going to be a *lot* of stuff in the next release, then more in the
release after.  Our year two is going to be just great.  Please be patient.

Kind regards,

Kevin

Kevin Miller <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> 
Runtime Revolution Limited - The Solution for Software Development
Tel: +44 (0) 870 747 1165.  Fax: +44 (0)1639 830 707.

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Re: OT Re: REALbasic vs. Revolution

[miscdas]

Scott,
Please, please continue with a business paradigm that includes "do things
right, rather than quick". As a Windoze user, I am sick of the buggy 
bloatware offered by MS. I NEVER install version 1.x of any MS products; the 
patches and bug fixes that have to be installed are a testament to the 
"great ball of string" being so huge and tangled that we're forever locked 
in a never-ending cycle of fixes and patches. 

miscdas 

[snip] 

Scott Raney writes: 

Our natural inclination when adding engine features is to do things
right, rather than quick.  This means it might take longer to make
some things available, the eventual product is of better quality and
easier to use than what you get with some other products...
  Regards,
Scott


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Re: OT Re: REALbasic vs. Revolution

[miscdas]

I AGREE! Please continue to add your thought-provoking commentary. To make a 
good stew, the pot must be stirred from time-to-time. 

miscdas 



[snip] 

Richard Gaskin writes: 

Troy Rollins wrote: 

This is my last post on the topic. Maybe at all here.


Troy, I'll get on bended knee if necessary, but your posts have been among
the most thought-provoking here yet.  I can honestly say I've spent more
time thinking about words you've laid down here than 90% of the email I read
(you even got me poking around in iShell for hours one night -- fscinating
gadget). 

I'm back to good ol' Rev nerd talk here myself, and I think a lot of folks
share your sentiment.  Please stay, and stay vocal.

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Multimedia in Rev

[Matt Denton]

Hey-ya List

Well after some trepidation, I've built a nice, tidy small multimedia 
app!  I love building tools in Rev but haven't had a chance to 'test 
the waters' in a live, multimedia app. Still a bit more to add, some 
testing on all platforms, but NICE!  Lots of fun!  Now to playback on 
CD...

Onya ReV!

M@
Matt Denton

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Re: OT: REALbasic vs. Revolution

[Heather Williams]

> Date: Fri, 11 Oct 2002 23:47:40 -0400
> Subject: Re: OT Re: REALbasic vs. Revolution
> From: Troy Rollins <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> 
> On 10/11/02 11:01 PM, "Chipp Walters" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> 
>> how about libURL? Talk about 'real new capabiities'!
>> In fact there are a number of revolution 'stacks' that are scripted
>> completely with transcript which are *very* powerful tools. I myself have
>> built an asynchronous http file transfer utility file upload (RFC1867
>> compatible) completely within RunRev which works very well. I believe there
>> are a number of very interesting possiblilities for plugins which can be
>> developed wholly inside RunRev.
> 
> OK. Whatever. I give up.
> 
> This is my last post on the topic. Maybe at all here.
> -- 
> Troy


At the risk of prolonging this thread, I really wanted to chip (oh, sorry
Chipp ;-) in here. Troy, I hope you're not going to withdraw your valuable
contributions :-). I for one have been reading this exchange with very great
interest, and I'm sure other members of the team have as well. It's vital
for us to know everyone's hopes and dreams for Rev, as well as the more
practical visions of our power users. I don't consider it off topic at all,
though others may differ :-) I'd agree it's played out now, I think everyone
has said what they wanted to, but I hope you'll all go back to programming
in a positive frame of mind from this exchange, perhaps with some new ideas
and inspirations, rather than on an exasperated note.

On a more list mom note, guys (and gals) a reminder please, to never, ever,
post your unlock codes to the list :(. A most unfortunate accident. Oh, and
please, do turn off your html renderings before posting. Plain text only
please when posting to the list.

Warm regards,

Heather
-- 
Heather Williams <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> 
Runtime Revolution Ltd.
Tel: +44 (0) 131 7184333 Fax: +44 (0)1639 830707
Revolution - the Power Solution

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The Transcendental GUI (was a thread from REALbasic vs. Revolution)

[Richard Gaskin]

Chipp Walters wrote:

> Sticking to the interface was important up until...the advent of multimedia.
> Then button rollovers, sounds, effects, beautiful revealling interfaces
> changed it all. Kai Krause showed interfaces could be different, beautiful,
> intuitive and still work. Though Apple still would like to see you stick
> with their interface guidelines, the reality is that it's no more a
> necessity. Good interface design *is* good interface design -- on any
> platform (throbbing buttons notwithstanding;-).
> 
> The web came along and changed completely the interface paradigm. People
> learned to 'search' for features and use 'back' buttons, be modal
> etc...things the early Apple I/F authors would deplore! In fact a selling
> point for some very high-end software is a ubiquitous interface across
> platforms (Lightwave,Alias,Avid come to mind).
> 
> One thing I do admire about Windows, is the lack of a 'holy ordained look'
> (just my opinion).

Very important topic, Chipp.

I'm writing an article on application design, and I could use some help from
the folks on this list.

The article has a working title of:

   The Transcendental GUI:
   The case for platform-independent application design

The article will examine the UI differences between the four major desktop
OS families (Mac Classic, Aqua, Win32, UNIX/Linux), and explore ways to
design GUIs with a single interface which comforms to the spirit of the
respective OS Human Interface Guidelines, but transcends some of the
specifics in favor of greater interoperability.

If Apple realy wants people to switch, "not invented here" or "lickable" are
no substitutes for user testing.  Sooner or later the various window
managers in the Linux world will have to come in from outer space if they
want a share of the desktop.  And Windows is simply noisy and garish.

Driven by the Web (where folks spend most of their computing time) and
multi-computer households, the desktop is already in a state of flux whether
we acknowledge it in our designs or not.

The needs of OS vendors differ from the needs of users.  OS vendors derive
value from the very differentiation that hinders trans-OS adoption.  In an
increasingly interoperable world, we have an opportunity to provide guidance
to OS vendors by encouraging independent thought that's user-centered rather
than vendor-centered.
 
One of the challenges I've had in researching this article is finding
examples of popular platform-independent GUIs which take liberties with
OS-specific guidelines.

LimeWire is an obvious example of even extreme disregard for convention
failing to affect popularity, and of course there's Kai's work (although I
have some personal problems with much of his stuff).  But I'm having a tough
time finding others.

If you know of an application that is popular, runs on at least two
platforms, and takes significant liberties with the native UI, I'd love to
take a look at it.


PS: good article on these issues from '96:

The Anti-Mac Interface
by Don Gentnera and Jakob Nielsen


-- 
 Richard Gaskin 
 Fourth World Media Corporation
 Custom Software and Web Development for All Major Platforms
 Developer of WebMerge 2.0: Publish any database on any site
 ___
 [EMAIL PROTECTED]   http://www.FourthWorld.com
 Tel: 323-225-3717   AIM: FourthWorldInc

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Re: Speech with Windows XP

[Ken Norris (dialup)]

Hello Curry

I'll be following this with great interest. Many of my intended users have
vision, speech and motor deficits. I D/L'd a TTS program for my Windows
machine a couple months ago (cost $$ and has only one voice...you can get
more for more $$...stuff that has come with Mac OS' for a long time), but I
haven't a clue how to get it to work with a Rev-built app. One of the goals
is for a speech deficited user to be able to hold a synthesized voice phone
conversation from an onscreen keyboard. Like you mentioned, it's really not
much problem with a Mac, but Windows is a real challenge.

Ken N.
--
on 10/11/02 11:24 PM, curry at [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

> A thousand pardons for two posts on the same topic, but with all the
> sensational Rev vs. Real stuff sizzling on the list, maybe some of
> the plainer topics don't stand out.
> 
> I have several projects that need speech, and on Mac that's no
> problem. On Windows, it was no problem either until XP came along,
> and from Microsoft's website it looks like the Speech SAPI that the
> Windows speech external uses only works up to Win2000. If that's
> correct, then I'm wondering about a fairly easy way to use speech on
> Windows XP.
> 
> I assume there are surely some Revolution users who use
> text-to-speech in cross-platform projects?  I would really appreciate
> your tips if anyone knows a good way.
> 
> Whether it is a DLL or some type of helper app (that can be
> distributed) or interapplication communication, doesn't matter that
> much to me as long as it's not too  clunky. Or a programming language
> that has speech features and could be used to make an executable
> helper app.
> 
> I'm also going to contact Tuviah about this and see if he has any
> suggestions, if so, I'll let you know, but please let me know too if
> you have any solutions.
> 
> I would also be willing to pay for a third-party solution, if it were
> designed to market to more than one person;  I'm not currently
> situated to hire a custom solution alone and pay more for making Rev
> talk on XP than for Revolution itself! TTS complements a wide variety
> of applications. I think it's really worth having cross-platform.
> 
> Curry

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