Re: Rev 2.02/New pricing

[Richard Gaskin]

So well said it's worth reposting:

David Kwinter wrote:
> RunRev has phenomenal potential to be the standard 4GL engine if it plays
> its cards right.
> 
> Marketing is mostly up to RunRev itself, and largely doesn't exist. RR:
> Start with a real book and play up to your company's name. Tout the 90% less
> code 4GL vs 3GL. You've got a piece of 2025 right now, we're all believers.

The future is 4GLs.  Rev is among the best 4GLs the world has seen.

If only 5% of the people currently throwing money away using lower-level
systems like Java instead used Rev where appropriate, RunRev Ltd. would be
rich and humanity would save more than a million person-hours in the first
year alone.

-- 
 Richard Gaskin 
 Fourth World Media Corporation
 Developer of WebMerge 2.2: Publish any database on any site
 ___
 [EMAIL PROTECTED]   http://www.FourthWorld.com
 Tel: 323-225-3717   AIM: FourthWorldInc

___
use-revolution mailing list
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution

RE: Rev 2.02/New pricing

[Monte Goulding]

> I am absolutely all in favor of RR getting as much exposure and
> publicity for the tool as possible because we all ultimately benefit
> from that. But this splash screen is a proven bad idea which I really
> hope RR reconsiders.

Let's not get too carried away. I remember that the idea of a cheeper
version that only builds for one platform and has a splash like in Director
was called for way back before the initial let's get the last HC users
special offer.

I'm not saying it's a good idea but it's one that came from this list. Ever
since Rev came out there have been people demanding a $100-150 price tag and
not only does int make good business sense that RR have replaced the Free
version with the Express but it shows they listen to thier users.

The worst thing I can see about the splash is the target audience. It's not
annoying the developer as much as the user. The user is the one that doesn't
own Rev and therfore could be another sale. You've just annoyed a potential
customer. Will you get the sale? No.

I think that if Express is a hobby version then it should have a hobby
distribution system. My vote would be something akin to a standalone version
of RevNet with a cache for offline browsing. AKA Java WebStart.

That way the limitation is actually showing off the cross-platform web aware
capabilities of Rev.

Regards

Monte

___
use-revolution mailing list
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution

Re: Rev 2.02/New pricing

[Bill Vlahos]

This is a great argument and has changed my mind on the subject too.

My $.02

Bill

On Thursday, July 17, 2003, at 08:09  PM, Chipp Walters wrote:

Now, I'm not trying to denigrate or belittle newbie RR programmers at
all...it's just one would expect RR to want to splash their logo on the
*best* of it's developer's work...not the beginners. I think the ABOUT 
box
(the way it is currently) is just fine.
___
use-revolution mailing list
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution

Re: me - the potential buyer

[Joel Rees]

Thanks for the links and pointers, Sarah. I had also gotten sidetracked
into playing with the interface builder.

Sarah suggested

> I know what you mean, because even those of us experienced with other 
> xTalk tools ran into problems starting. Basically it gets worse when 
> you don't even know the question let alone the answer :-)
> Anyway, we are here to help and we all hate seeing someone sink into 
> despair, so here are a few starting points you could consider:
> 
> Metacard has a good tutorial: mtp.mc at http://www.metacard.com/pi6.html
> Change the file extension to .rev and it will work fine. It doesn't 
> deal with the graphical interface design at all, but gets you started 
> with some simple scripts.
> 
> After that, since there aren't any Rev books out there yet, I recommend 
> a HyperCard book. Rev has lots that HC doesn't, but it incorporates 
> pretty much all that HC does and the docs note when this doesn't apply. 
> Also any demo stacks can be loaded straight into Revolution although 
> they can have some problems if they use menus. Books to consider are:
> HyperTalk Programming by Dan Shafer
> HyperTalk 2.2: The Book by Winkler, Kamins & DeVoto
> The Complete HyperCard Handbook by Danny Goodman
> 
> Dan is re-writing his book to apply to Revolution: if you go to 
> http://www.revjournal.com/ you can find some info about that as well as 
> a couple of excerpts. Jeanne DeVoto is the author the Rev docs. I'm not 
> sure that all these are still in print, but they can usually be found.
> 
> Apart from that, I assume you have done the tutorials that come with 
> Revolution and if you have Rev 2.0, you will see the new Cookbook 
> section which has quite a lot of example scripts. There are also 
> numerous stacks available at the User Contributions section of the 
> RunRev website and other places - all of which can be taken apart, 
> examined, changed, tested etc so you can work out what is going on.
> 
> Finally, if you want the docs in a separate electronic format, go to 
> http://www.inspiredlogic.com/downloads.html where Geoff Canyon has a 
> stack that will export the docs into html, rtf or text.
> 
> Cheers,
> Sarah
> [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> http://www.troz.net/Rev/
> 
> P.S. the manual isn't vaporware - the might stack of books is making my 
> desk bend :-)

-- 
Joel Rees, programmer, Kansai Systems Group
Altech Corporation (Alpsgiken), Osaka, Japan
http://www.alpsgiken.co.jp

___
use-revolution mailing list
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution

Re: Rev 2.02/New pricing

[Wolfgang M. Bereuter]

On Friday, Jul 18, 2003, at 05:09 Europe/Vienna, Chipp Walters wrote:

So, what can we expect *others* to think when they see the "Made with
Revolution" logo on 'newbie' type projects? That all Rev projects are 
like
this, and of the same caliber??? This is one of the reasons I 
originally
chose RR, because it *didn't* have this stigma.

Now, I'm not trying to denigrate or belittle newbie RR programmers at
all...it's just one would expect RR to want to splash their logo on the
*best* of it's developer's work...not the beginners. I think the ABOUT 
box
(the way it is currently) is just fine.
Agree 100%... It is (WAS?) one of the strongest rev arguments. If RR 
change her mind in this case I think its shooting in your own feet, as 
we say here in Austria...

One thought more...
What great product we could have now, if time and money of "license 
changes" - I think its the 6. or 7. licence/pricing change from the 
beginning (think about all the time what the members here also have 
wasted) - would have been invested in bugfixing and improvement of the 
UI...
A modular MC/rev developer tool with any flavor of UI (newbie to pro 
developer, from reduced to full featured) and features, where every 
developer could pick up what he needs. That would be the end of the 
pricing/license discussion and the beginning of real rev volume sales 
(against Director, RB, Visual Basic, etc...)

Let me give you an example: Geoffs revNavigator and the actual 
Appbrowser
The revNavigator is much better than the Appbrowser which is now at 
last (after 2 years) better than the good old Aplov. But far away what 
I it could be. The revNavigator not a real replacement, more an 
addition: "Together we are strong..."
Why not integrate the revNavigator concept in the Appbrowser with some 
other stacks, to a kind of pure developer UI..?
(pure does not mean cheap...)

So everybody could build his UI with different stacks, and his price 
(Of course there must be a basic UI like (similar) it was (is) in MC. 
Some prebuilded combinations (stacks) for rev newbies, HArdcore coder, 
MM developers HC switcher, RB switcher Director and so one could be 
done and offered by RR itself...
A killer app...!

Imho the problem is, there are a lot of great scripters at RR but only 
a few(?) "ergonomics" and UI freaks...

I know the wont pay me for my ideas, on the contrary so I would like to 
know, whats the upgrade price for the pro license...

regards
Wolfgang M. Bereuter
Learn easy with trainingsmaps©
INTERNETTRAINER Wolfgang M. Bereuter
Edelhofg. 17/11, A-1180 Wien, Austria
...
http://www.internettrainer.com, [EMAIL PROTECTED]
...
Tel: ++43/1/ 961 0418, Fax: ++43/1/ 479 2539
___
use-revolution mailing list
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution

Re: Rev 2.02/New pricing

[Wolfgang M. Bereuter]

On Friday, Jul 18, 2003, at 06:02 Europe/Vienna, Richard Gaskin wrote:

I had no opinion about the splash screen until I read his post.  Now I 
must
add my voice to those who think it's not in the best interests of the
product or the company.

Vive la Révolution!
Assuming in this case you mean Evolution...;)

regards
Wolfgang M. Bereuter
Learn easy with trainingsmaps©
INTERNETTRAINER Wolfgang M. Bereuter
Edelhofg. 17/11, A-1180 Wien, Austria
...
http://www.internettrainer.com, [EMAIL PROTECTED]
...
Tel: ++43/1/ 961 0418, Fax: ++43/1/ 479 2539
___
use-revolution mailing list
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution

Re: Rev 2.02/New pricing

[curry]

Richard Gaskin wrote:

 >> Commercial developers should buy Studio at least.
...
 > If a commercial developer doesn't like Studio because of its
 > behavior, then it's either Enterprise, Studio + Express, or two
 > Expresses.
Agreed, but we're not talking about the perceptions of developers.  We're
talking about end-users.
Are you suggesting the splash screen include the something like, "This
unprofessional-looking splash screen is not present in applications made
with the Studio or Enterprise versions of Revlution"? ;)
I'm afraid that without it there's no way for an end-user to know.
Something got tangled up somewhere--that's not what I was talking 
about. Or rather, it's two different things.

I was talking about Studio's behavior (not editing on target 
platform) as a reason why I (as an example of the commercial 
developers he was talking about) would rather choose two Expresses 
than a Studio, but if using Express, that's where the end-user 
perception comes in about the splash screen. See what I meant? :-)

I don't want a splash screen to include *anything* because I don't 
want a splash screen! (Whether I'm using it or someone else.)

Curry
___
use-revolution mailing list
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution

Re: Rev 2.02/New pricing

[Wolfgang M. Bereuter]

Hi Geoff,
On Friday, Jul 18, 2003, at 08:05 Europe/Vienna, Geoff Canyon wrote:
One way that occurs to me to deal with any objections would be to 
simply respond, "Those applications were built with Revolution 
Express. I work with Revolution Studio. There's a world of > difference."
You are expecting to much from the average costumer (client). He does 
not see the difference of Express odr Studio. He does, if he does, 
realize made+revolution - Not more...

I ofter fin myself not looking closer to a utility which offer a system 
near features if I see made on RB, maybe thats not fair, but it is ... 
Therefore thats a big danger for the whole product. You get a bad 
reputation very fast, but its difficult and expensive to loose it 
again...

regards
Wolfgang M. Bereuter
Learn easy with trainingsmaps©
INTERNETTRAINER Wolfgang M. Bereuter
Edelhofg. 17/11, A-1180 Wien, Austria
...
http://www.internettrainer.com, [EMAIL PROTECTED]
...
Tel: ++43/1/ 961 0418, Fax: ++43/1/ 479 2539
___
use-revolution mailing list
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution

Re: Rev 2.02/New pricing

[Wolfgang M. Bereuter]

On Friday, Jul 18, 2003, at 08:15 Europe/Vienna, Richard Gaskin wrote:

Agreed, but we're not talking about the perceptions of developers.  
We're
talking about end-users.

Are you suggesting the splash screen include the something like, "This
unprofessional-looking splash screen is not present in applications 
made
with the Studio or Enterprise versions of Revlution"? ;)
Ahhh Hyperstudio..?

regards
Wolfgang M. Bereuter
Learn easy with trainingsmaps©
INTERNETTRAINER Wolfgang M. Bereuter
Edelhofg. 17/11, A-1180 Wien, Austria
...
http://www.internettrainer.com, [EMAIL PROTECTED]
...
Tel: ++43/1/ 961 0418, Fax: ++43/1/ 479 2539
___
use-revolution mailing list
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution

Re: Rev 2.02/New pricing

[Geoff Canyon]

There seem to be three arguments against the Express closing screen:

1. Potential clients/developers won't want the closing screen on their 
apps.
   Answer: get Studio or Enterprise.

2. End Users will be frustrated by the closing screen.
   Answer: it is (my understanding) brief and somewhat entertaining.
3. Potential clients/developers will be turned off by the perceived 
lack of quality in Revolution-developed apps because awareness that a 
given app was created with Revolution will correlate with the 
newest/least serious developers.
   Answer: this is the hardest to answer. The decline of Director is 
being blamed on the "Made with Director" campaign. Could that campaign 
also be credited with the previous success of Director? The product had 
a very good run. Maybe the right business plan is to gain awareness 
with such a campaign only until you see traction in the marketplace, 
and then pull the campaign and let your product speak with its own (now 
much louder) voice?

What Revolution needs now is awareness. Anything that promotes that is 
good. Anything that hinders that is bad.

Disclaimer: the above is speculation.

regards,

Geoff Canyon
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
___
use-revolution mailing list
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution

Re: Rev 2.02/New pricing

[Geoff Canyon]

On Thursday, July 17, 2003, at 08:57  PM, J. Landman Gay wrote:

Hm. I hadn't thought of that. Poorly-designed beginner stacks are what 
gave HyperCard a bad name too, and eventually killed it. You have a 
good point.
All products should live the life and die the death of HyperCard...

To those who suggest a player would make the closing screen a better 
option, consider that there was no splash screen/closing screen on the 
HyperCard stacks that gave HyperCard a bad reputation. The thing 
identifying them was the fact that they ran in HyperCard.

Maybe the player app should be named "This certainly has nothing to do 
with Revolution." ;-)

regards,

Geoff Canyon
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
___
use-revolution mailing list
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution

Re: Rev 2.02/New pricing

[Phil Jimmieson]

On Thursday, July 17, 2003, at 05:31  PM, Edwin Gore wrote:

I don't think that they can honestly say that the studio product 
allows you to create applications for all supported platforms, 
since it's impossible to TEST the applications without using 
another one of the products.
You have a point, but: show of hands -- who here has built an app 
for another platform without ever testing on that platform and had 
it just work?
I've had minor cosmetic issues show up (dodgy fonts, windows drawn 
with a default background colour other than I expected) but I was 
able to fix these on the Mac - no windows IDE required.

And who has had the exact opposite experience; serious 
platform-specific issues that required working on that platform to 
fix?
I found that there was a problem with pathnames to quicktime files 
that only appeared under windows (it was in version 1.1.1 and I can't 
remember the details now). But suffice it to say that if I hadn't 
been able to debug the software under windows, it would have been 
*very* much harder to figure out what the problem was and code around 
it.

You can build for OS X on other platforms, just not for OS <=9. 
Obviously this issue is getting smaller as time passes.
But there are still a lot of people using OS9. Would you really want 
to unnecessarily cut them off from your potential audience? If you 
have to pay $800 more to be able to debug the software on OS9 when 
you're working on OSX then I imagine a lot of people just won't 
bother, so you won't get an OS9 version of the software. Personally 
I'd hate the loss of the ability to debug on any platform.

--
Phil Jimmieson  [EMAIL PROTECTED]  (UK) 0151 794 3689  (Mobile) 07976 983164
Computer Science Dept., Liverpool University, Chadwick Building, Peach Street
Liverpool L69 7ZF  http://www.csc.liv.ac.uk/~phil/
  I used to sit on a special medical board... ...but now I use this ointment.
___
use-revolution mailing list
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution

Re: license work around

[Geoff Canyon]

On Thursday, July 17, 2003, at 11:06  PM, John Tenny wrote:

So does this equal a "functioning" cross platform tool with a total 
price tag of $550 (after August). Why so convoluted just to get 
something that works as advertised.
Depends on your definition of "functioning cross platform tool." I've 
built many apps on a Mac that compiled for a PC and ran flawlessly 
there. By that standard, Studio alone is sufficient at $199 now, $399 
normally.

For anything mission critical you want to be able to test/debug on the 
target platforms. If that's just Windows, then throw in a copy of 
Express for $75 now, $149 normally, for a total of $548.

If you want to test/debug on more platforms, you can add them in as 
well.

If you want simplicity, Enterprise is all-you-can-eat: build/debug on 
any platform or all of them, for $599 now, $1199 normally.

So if you want simple, it's available. So is a custom configuration, so 
if you need to be able to develop on Linux but target Sparc as well, 
Revolution has you covered.

regards,

Geoff Canyon
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
___
use-revolution mailing list
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution

Re: use-revolution digest, Vol 1 #1621 - 14 msgs

[Esa kivelä]

At 01:48 18.7.2003 -0400, you wrote:
Send use-revolution mailing list submissions to
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit
http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
You can reach the person managing the list at
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific
than "Re: Contents of use-revolution digest..."
you can find the archives for this list at:



and search them using this link:



Today's Topics:

   1. me - the potential buyer (John Tenny)
   2. Re: Rev 2.02/New pricing (Geoff Canyon)
   3. Re: What Gives? (Geoff Canyon)
   4. license work around (John Tenny)
   5. Re: Rev 2.02/New pricing (Geoff Canyon)
   6. Re: Rev 2.02/New pricing (Geoff Canyon)
   7. Re: Rev 2.02/New pricing (Richard Gaskin)
   8. Re: Rev 2.02/New pricing (Geoff Canyon)
   9. Re: Rev 2.02/New pricing (Richard Gaskin)
  10. Re: Rev 2.02/New pricing (Richard Gaskin)
  11. Re: Rev 2.02/New pricing (Dan Shafer)
  12. Re: Rev 2.02/New pricing (David Vaughan)
  13. Re: Rev 2.02/New pricing (Richard Gaskin)
  14. Re: me - the potential buyer (Sarah)
--__--__--

Message: 1
Date: Thu, 17 Jul 2003 22:59:19 -0700
Subject: me - the potential buyer
From: John Tenny <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Am I one of those that RR is interested in? I'd played a bit with HC
and liked it; never had a useful product in mind so went on to other,
non-programming tasks (like getting a PhD and running a graduate
teacher education program for 15 years).
Now I do have a product in mind and a ready, if small market. It has to
be cross platform to be a success (success = breaking even, not
producing uncommitted cash)- a hobby with income. I stumbled across RR
and thought I'd found the right tool.
The new pricing doesn't bother me at all - I was ready to pay the full
price for the SBE (which was less than the Studio after the intro offer
is finished) -- if it did the job I needed.
What has stopped me dead in my tracks is that I can't seem to learn the
program. As a newcomer, I can tell you that the online help system
stinks - not enough examples, not enough detail in the
vocabulary/syntax areas, and a vaporware manual. >
That's why I liked HCs Home tacka nd its HC reference :-) Something smiliar 
to RR (with good pratical examples)? I have difficulties also start with RR 
and some   things I still have to figure out.

Esashi

Even the most powerful human being
Has a limited sphere of strength.
Draw him outside of that sphere
And into your own, and his strength will dissipate.
 - Morihei Ueshiba
___
use-revolution mailing list
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution

Re: Rev 2.02/New pricing

[Geoff Canyon]

On Thursday, July 17, 2003, at 11:20  PM, Richard Gaskin wrote:

While it's possible to test on one machine and code on another, such a
workflow is inherently less productive.
Only if you actually end up needing to debug something specific to the 
non-development platform. Revolution isn't a perfect cross-platform 
solution, but it is very good. If the need for platform-specific 
debugging is lessened, the need for cross-platform development is 
similarly lessened.

regards,

Geoff Canyon
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
___
use-revolution mailing list
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution

Re: Rev 2.02/New pricing

[Geoff Canyon]

On Thursday, July 17, 2003, at 11:20  PM, Richard Gaskin wrote:

You can build for OS X on other platforms, just not for OS <=9.
Obviously this issue is getting smaller as time passes.
Today 60% of Mac users still use OS 9 or earlier.
And if I can build OS X apps on other platforms, why does Scott tell 
me I
need to make Mach-O builds from OS X and not OS 9?
I thought you could build for OS X on OS 9, but maybe not -- it's been 
awhile since I opened Rev on a Classic machine, and far be it from me 
to contradict the Word of Raney. ;-)

I wasn't saying that there aren't still a lot of OS 9 users, just that 
their numbers are no longer increasing.

regards,

Geoff Canyon
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
___
use-revolution mailing list
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution

Re: Rev 2.02/New pricing

[revolution]

Hello Ken

>> In fact, as someone who has no use for these drivers, but who wishes to target
>> multiple platforms, I fall squarely into the camp of the 'losers'.
--
>How so? The new pricing and names indicate that the "Studio" version
>replaces the SBE and includes "All supported platforms" .

Because it appears that the Studio version only runs on one platform for development, 
and only includes a single version upgrade (although given the amount of time it took 
for Rev 2.0 to come out, so I do not expect there to be more than one upgrade per 
year). I think I didn't express myself very clearly (I was already embarrassed by the 
length of my email!)

Regards
Bernard  

___
use-revolution mailing list
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution

Re: Rev 2.02/New pricing

[Geoff Canyon]

On Thursday, July 17, 2003, at 11:30  PM, Dan Shafer wrote:

I'm just raising my hand here in support of Chipp's note about the 
splash screen. My company had a similar experience; we'd actually done 
some of the early demos for Director under contract to Macromedia and 
were building a decent business as Director developers. But our 
clients indicated they didn't want *their* customers (or competitors) 
to know what tool(s) they used and they insisted that we either 
circumvent the Director splash screen or switch tools.

We switched tools.

I am absolutely all in favor of RR getting as much exposure and 
publicity for the tool as possible because we all ultimately benefit 
from that. But this splash screen is a proven bad idea which I really 
hope RR reconsiders.
You wouldn't have to circumvent anything -- just purchase Studio and 
poof, no closing screen.

I disagree that a closing screen is a "proven bad idea." It seemed to 
serve Macromedia pretty well for over half a decade.

regards,

Geoff Canyon
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
___
use-revolution mailing list
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution

Re: Rev 2.02/New pricing

[Geoff Canyon]

On Thursday, July 17, 2003, at 11:27  PM, Richard Gaskin wrote:

A clearer differentiation could be possible with a product that 
deploys to a
player only.  It may seem odd to the outside observer that an
application-building system that claims to offer total control over 
the user
experience would hamper the exit of an application.  There are 
different
(lower) expectations for a player app
Wouldn't people then get the impression that a player app was all 
Revolution was capable of?

regards,

Geoff Canyon
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
___
use-revolution mailing list
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution

Re: Rev 2.02/New pricing

[Richard Gaskin]

Geoff Canyon wrote:

> To those who suggest a player would make the closing screen a better
> option, consider that there was no splash screen/closing screen on the
> HyperCard stacks that gave HyperCard a bad reputation. The thing
> identifying them was the fact that they ran in HyperCard.

Precisely.  No arbitrary delay on exit.

> Maybe the player app should be named "This certainly has nothing to do
> with Revolution." ;-)

Gets my vote. :)

-- 
 Richard Gaskin 
 Fourth World Media Corporation
 Developer of WebMerge 2.2: Publish any database on any site
 ___
 [EMAIL PROTECTED]   http://www.FourthWorld.com
 Tel: 323-225-3717   AIM: FourthWorldInc

___
use-revolution mailing list
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution

Re: RTFText, HTMLText, and Formatted Content in RR

[Wolfgang M. Bereuter]

On Friday, Jul 18, 2003, at 03:25 Europe/Vienna, Dan Shafer wrote:


RTFText supports a tiny subset of the RTF file format. The docs list 
the formatting controls in RTF that are supported by RR. Out of 
something like 1300 control words in the RTF spec, RR supports 
approximately 30. The support is so thin that even a fairly simple 
book chapter -- which includes things like bulleted lists, code 
samples, and four-level headings, renders quite poorly and unusably.
I have the same rtf problem since the beginning. Write and format in 
one tool and transfer all that without loosing the formating to other 
tools. Thats very important for writing or working with a lot of text, 
translations and so on. I have struggled a lot for the rtf feature in 
rev...
Now we have it at least!!!
I know its not perfect, but again we have it...;)
The biggest problem is -as always- M$. But there is ( I dont know) no 
other way to deal with formated text between OSes.
What I do is: I write in Mellel OSX only). It does good rtf import 
also, but I have not imported Word rtf files until now. I write in it
I select the text copy it to the clipboard
set the rev textfield to rtf and paste it to the rev textfield.
That works fine. Yes you have to do a bit of fine tuning with 
tabulators, but not the whole slave formatting job again and again. 
Nearly 95% of the formatting is correct here... (Dont know what happens 
if the text is very big, I paste only small parts to the rev textfields 
up to 3 pages)
Maybe there is a way for XML I dont know how this works...
The future could be pdf import..?

Hope that helps

regards
Wolfgang M. Bereuter
Learn easy with trainingsmaps©
INTERNETTRAINER Wolfgang M. Bereuter
Edelhofg. 17/11, A-1180 Wien, Austria
...
http://www.internettrainer.com, [EMAIL PROTECTED]
...
Tel: ++43/1/ 961 0418, Fax: ++43/1/ 479 2539
___
use-revolution mailing list
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution

Re: Rev 2.02/New pricing

[Wolfgang M. Bereuter]

Hi Dan,

On Friday, Jul 18, 2003, at 08:30 Europe/Vienna, Dan Shafer wrote:

I'm just raising my hand here in support of Chipp's note about the 
splash screen. My company had a similar experience; we'd actually done 
some of the early demos for Director under contract to Macromedia and 
were building a decent business as Director developers. But our 
clients indicated they didn't want *their* customers (or competitors) 
to know what tool(s) they used and they insisted that we either 
circumvent the Director splash screen or switch tools.

We switched tools.

I am absolutely all in favor of RR getting as much exposure and 
publicity for the tool as possible because we all ultimately benefit 
from that. But this splash screen is a proven bad idea which I really 
hope RR reconsiders.
Thanks for that point and also for the book you are working on. I have 
seen it on revjournal and was very, very IMPRESSED!
Thats "the book" what we -NON-Hardcore scripter- are waiting for since 
years..!

regards
Wolfgang M. Bereuter
Learn easy with trainingsmaps©
INTERNETTRAINER Wolfgang M. Bereuter
Edelhofg. 17/11, A-1180 Wien, Austria
...
http://www.internettrainer.com, [EMAIL PROTECTED]
...
Tel: ++43/1/ 961 0418, Fax: ++43/1/ 479 2539
___
use-revolution mailing list
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution

Re: Rev 2.02/New pricing

[Richard Gaskin]

Geoff Canyon wrote:

> On Thursday, July 17, 2003, at 11:20  PM, Richard Gaskin wrote:
> 
>> While it's possible to test on one machine and code on another, such a
>> workflow is inherently less productive.
> 
> Only if you actually end up needing to debug something specific to the
> non-development platform. Revolution isn't a perfect cross-platform
> solution, but it is very good. If the need for platform-specific
> debugging is lessened, the need for cross-platform development is
> similarly lessened.

Exactly.  So once Rev becomes perfect the need for cross-platform
development goes away.

But in our imperfect world Rev is merely great, so the need remains

-- 
 Richard Gaskin 
 Fourth World Media Corporation
 Developer of WebMerge 2.2: Publish any database on any site
 ___
 [EMAIL PROTECTED]   http://www.FourthWorld.com
 Tel: 323-225-3717   AIM: FourthWorldInc

___
use-revolution mailing list
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution

Re: Rev 2.02/New pricing

[Richard Gaskin]

Geoff Canyon wrote:

> On Thursday, July 17, 2003, at 11:27  PM, Richard Gaskin wrote:
> 
>> A clearer differentiation could be possible with a product that
>> deploys to a
>> player only.  It may seem odd to the outside observer that an
>> application-building system that claims to offer total control over
>> the user
>> experience would hamper the exit of an application.  There are
>> different
>> (lower) expectations for a player app
> 
> Wouldn't people then get the impression that a player app was all
> Revolution was capable of?

Er, because it's a player?

As a standalone application, one expects the user experience to be defined
by its author.  The splash screen is reasonably among them.  When RunRev
Ltd. is the author, we can expect to see their logo.

But to have a splash screen which is completely unrelated to the application
it appears in is a little odd.

-- 
 Richard Gaskin 
 Fourth World Media Corporation
 Developer of WebMerge 2.2: Publish any database on any site
 ___
 [EMAIL PROTECTED]   http://www.FourthWorld.com
 Tel: 323-225-3717   AIM: FourthWorldInc

___
use-revolution mailing list
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution

Re: Rev 2.02/New pricing

[Geoff Canyon]

On Thursday, July 17, 2003, at 11:47  PM, David Kwinter wrote:

On 7/18/03 12:20 AM, "Geoff Canyon" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

Everyone say it with me:

Hi, my name is Geoff Canyon, and I use Revolution.
Playing devil's advocate, I'd like to point out that some hard core
developers may not want to promote Revolution. Simply put, Revolution 
is a
very serious competitive advantage. Such programmers may only want Rev 
to
barely survive.
Paul Graham has made the exact same point in some detail regarding his 
tool of choice: LISP. He regards it as the secret weapon that allowed 
his company to be successful against larger competitors.

That said, I don't think any of us are currently at risk of the market 
being flooded with Revolution developers. When Revolution reaches the 
market penetration of, say, Apple, then there may be cause for concern.

regards,

Geoff Canyon
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
___
use-revolution mailing list
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution

Re: Rev 2.02/New pricing

[Pierre Sahores]

With the include support of most of the professional-grade (ACID) SQL
RDBMS, the RunRev Team will need to build a big marketing effort to do
Rev best knowed as a real professional-grade alternative to applications
servers products alike BEA Weblogic, IBM WebSphere or Macromedia
ColdFusion. That will need money too and it's why i accept with pleasure
to have to go to purchase or renewal to the entreprise edition of RR
(it's really not as expensive, if we compare to the previous named "over
ip" applications servers products are).
-- 
Bien cordialement, Pierre Sahores

Serveurs d'applications & bases ACID SQL
Penser et produire l'avantage compétitif

___
use-revolution mailing list
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution

Re: Rev 2.02/New pricing

[Geoff Canyon]

On Thursday, July 17, 2003, at 11:51  PM, Richard Gaskin wrote:

Yes, it is time to stand up and be counted.  But before we can be 
counted we
must first stand up, and stand proudly.  Hampering an app's exit is 
not a
proud moment.
By that standard we should lobby against splash screens in general. 
They waste the user's time.

regards,

Geoff Canyon
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
___
use-revolution mailing list
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution

RE: Shell Problem - Windows

[Mike McManus]

Each command returns something. The "identify" command returns info about the image 
file I am looking at. The "convert" command returns the completed file name. By 
returns, I mean in the output from the command.  for example The "identify -help" 
command I started this thread with should output the help text for the identify 
command. This works fine from the Dos prompt itself. or under OSX where I get the 
output. 

Just as the Shell function dictionary entry states "Runs a shell command and returns 
the command's output." 

> --
> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] on behalf of Joel Rees
> Reply To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Sent: Thursday, July 17, 2003 11:08 PM
> To:   [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Subject:  Re: Shell Problem - Windows
> 
> 
> > Now more info. tried another of the imagemagick commands which I need.
> > Still no result or response from the CLI, but the command did work and
> > converted the file as I expect.
> 
> 
> What result were you expecting, and how are you expecting to get the
> result into your program?
> 
> -- 
> Joel Rees, programmer, Kansai Systems Group
> Altech Corporation (Alpsgiken), Osaka, Japan
> http://www.alpsgiken.co.jp
> 
> ___
> use-revolution mailing list
> [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
> 
> 
___
use-revolution mailing list
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution

Re: Rev 2.02/New pricing

[Geoff Canyon]

On Friday, July 18, 2003, at 02:35  AM, curry wrote:

re: final compiles: it shouldn't matter, at least as far as the 
result.
It should be byte-for-byte the same regardless of which platform you
build on.
It would matter, obviously, or I wouldn't have mentioned it. (Hint: we 
were talking Studio + Express.)
I'm not sure I understand. Take two users, Marty Mac and Wendy Windows. 
Marty has Studio for OS X and Express for Windows. Wendy has Studio for 
Windows and Express for Mac. Both have the same debugging capabilities, 
i.e., Mac or Windows. Both have the same build ability: Marty and Wendy 
can both build for Mac OS X and Windows, and their apps will be 
byte-identical. Marty's Windows app, built in Studio on OS X, will be 
the same as Wendy's Windows app, built in Studio on XP.

regards,

Geoff Canyon
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
___
use-revolution mailing list
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution

Re: Rev 2.02/New pricing

[Wolfgang M. Bereuter]

On Friday, Jul 18, 2003, at 11:13 Europe/Vienna, Geoff Canyon wrote:

You wouldn't have to circumvent anything -- just purchase Studio and 
poof, no closing screen.

I disagree that a closing screen is a "proven bad idea." It seemed to 
serve Macromedia pretty well for over half a decade.
The communism seemed to serve Russia pretty well for over half century. 
Sometimes anything looks well, because there is no alternative...

Now there are a lot of alternatives and nearly every day is coming 
another one, esp. from the point of view if MM development, which 
should still be the main focus - imho. Because its more difficult to 
struggle in the hardcore scripting market against M$´s .net or Sun 
Java. In the MM market is easier to get this 5% of the this MM market, 
because there is not such a domination like M$ or SUN.

I did a job like this in my "former" life. I pushed olivetti PC´s 
maketshare from "not registered" to the second place behind IBM with 
12% marketshare in the eighties here in Austria. I think I know a bit 
what I m talkin about... The way of doing the business is always the 
same, only the actors are changing...

Ahhh... whats the file limit of the list here, before I begin to write 
the list...?;)

regards
Wolfgang M. Bereuter
Learn easy with trainingsmaps©
INTERNETTRAINER Wolfgang M. Bereuter
Edelhofg. 17/11, A-1180 Wien, Austria
...
http://www.internettrainer.com, [EMAIL PROTECTED]
...
Tel: ++43/1/ 961 0418, Fax: ++43/1/ 479 2539
___
use-revolution mailing list
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution

Re: Rev 2.02/New pricing

[Geoff Canyon]

On Friday, July 18, 2003, at 02:53  AM, Wolfgang M. Bereuter wrote:

As Richard said before:
Forget Runtime Revolution Ltd., forget Fourth World/Sons o'
Thunder/Altuit/et al.   We don't matter; ultimately, only the end-user
matters.
Only the End User matters
Thats the big point. And this should be repeat more frequently here
my 2 cent
I don't know any other way to say it, so I'll just say it again: I 
think OS 9 users matter. They're great people, and they deserve to be 
supported.

All I said that started this is that their numbers are decreasing. Does 
anyone disagree with that? Unless you think there will be more OS 7/8/9 
users next year than there are now, please don't respond to tell me I 
should value OS 9 users. I do. Really.

;-)

regards,

Geoff Canyon
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
___
use-revolution mailing list
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution

Re: Rev 2.02/New pricing

[Richard Gaskin]

Geoff Canyon wrote:

> On Thursday, July 17, 2003, at 11:31  PM, David Vaughan wrote:
> 
>> Like any tool, Rev will have a population of bad programmers. They
>> will not be buying Enterprise and are unlikely to buy Studio. Whatever
>> the excellence of many Express buyers testing the RR waters, it
>> remains a fact that RR's proud splash will also sit on many of the
>> worst programs made with Rev; programs badly written and unsupported;
>> the author is not earning their living from them. This is just plain
>> bad publicity and you do not need it.
> 
> Revolution needs publicity. Any publicity. Okay, not publicity about
> the fact that Kevin actually does most of his programming in Java ;-)
> But there's a reason they say any publicity is good as long as they
> spell your name right.

Cultural beliefs and axioms should not be confused with logic.

What may work for the general public does not necessarily hold true for the
specialized subset of folks in our gene pool interested in programming.

One of the traits of the programmer personality type is that they are
generally of higher average intelligence than the gene pool as a whole, and
accordingly tend to be pursuaded more by reason and less by emotional or
popularity factors than the average bear.

An unusually discriminating audience, programmers are an exception to Geoff
Moore's observations about customer personality types across different
stages of technology adoption.

One could argue, and I'll wager that Moore would agree, that the distinction
in marketing programming tools is that the personality types driving the
"pre-chasm" phase he describes in 'Crossing the Chasm' are numbered in
greater proportion and extend far longer into the life cycle than one finds
with general consumer products.

In short, carefully managed publicity pays bigger dividends in markets full
of smart people than "publicity at any cost" strategies.

-- 
 Richard Gaskin 
 Fourth World Media Corporation
 Developer of WebMerge 2.2: Publish any database on any site
 ___
 [EMAIL PROTECTED]   http://www.FourthWorld.com
 Tel: 323-225-3717   AIM: FourthWorldInc

___
use-revolution mailing list
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution

Re: Rev 2.02/New pricing

[Richard Gaskin]

Geoff Canyon wrote:

> That said, I don't think any of us are currently at risk of the market
> being flooded with Revolution developers. When Revolution reaches the
> market penetration of, say, Apple, then there may be cause for concern.

For those of us here now it would be cause for celebration, as we'd be the
experts in this new field.

-- 
 Richard Gaskin 
 Fourth World Media Corporation
 Developer of WebMerge 2.2: Publish any database on any site
 ___
 [EMAIL PROTECTED]   http://www.FourthWorld.com
 Tel: 323-225-3717   AIM: FourthWorldInc

___
use-revolution mailing list
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution

Re: Rev 2.02/New pricing

[Richard Gaskin]

Geoff Canyon wrote:

> On Thursday, July 17, 2003, at 11:51  PM, Richard Gaskin wrote:
> 
>> Yes, it is time to stand up and be counted.  But before we can be
>> counted we
>> must first stand up, and stand proudly.  Hampering an app's exit is
>> not a
>> proud moment.
> 
> By that standard we should lobby against splash screens in general.
> They waste the user's time.

Not the good ones:  intro splash screens provide feedback about the
initialization process and go away when initialization's done.

-- 
 Richard Gaskin 
 Fourth World Media Corporation
 Developer of WebMerge 2.2: Publish any database on any site
 ___
 [EMAIL PROTECTED]   http://www.FourthWorld.com
 Tel: 323-225-3717   AIM: FourthWorldInc

___
use-revolution mailing list
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution

Re: Rev 2.02/New pricing

[miscdas]

Geoff Canyon writes: 

On Thursday, July 17, 2003, at 12:10  PM, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: 

Excuse me?  The Starter Kit was already THE option for hobbyists!
So, in the single OS versions, do we get a slimmed-down engine optimized 
for that OS? If we can develop only for one OS, why carry all the unused 
(and unusable) baggage for the others?
Also, I can accept readily all the bugs in a Free version, but they're 
very hard to swallow in a paid version. (And please, don't tell me what a 
comparatively small bug count Rev has; it's really irrelevant.)
The Starter Kit was great for anyone who had the open-mindedness to look 
beyond the popular conception of what can be done in ten lines of code and 
the perseverance to work within the actual confines of that limit. 

Considering this subject relates to hobbyists, you offer a great supporting 
argument for keeping the 10-line limit in tact. 

Ten lines of code is a very fuzzy limitation, because you can't know ahead 
of time how clever you'll be at building within that limit, and you can't 
even have a marginally accurate conception until you've used Revolution 
extensively. 

Again, exactly the kind of challenging nut a hobbyist enjoys cracking.
I believe you will find the hobbyists contributing solutions to problems 
that would otherwise go un- or under-answered because "real developers" 
simply can't justify the time investment. 

The limitations on Express, on the other hand, are conceptually clean and 
simple; anyone can grasp what they're getting without any experience of 
Revolution at all.
Ah, but now we switch the subject from hobbyist to the general "anyone". I 
couldn't agree more in that case. I know several "designers" that want to do 
multimedia apps, and state emphatically that they are not programmers (and 
don't want to be). Express would be good for them to make an evaluation.
[snip]
regards, 

Geoff Canyon
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
miscdas 

___
use-revolution mailing list
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution

Re: Rev 2.02/New pricing

[Martin Baxter]

>On Friday, July 18, 2003, at 02:35  AM, curry wrote:
>
>>> re: final compiles: it shouldn't matter, at least as far as the
>>> result.
>>> It should be byte-for-byte the same regardless of which platform you
>>> build on.
>>
>> It would matter, obviously, or I wouldn't have mentioned it. (Hint: we
>> were talking Studio + Express.)
>
>Geoff Canyon replied :
>
>I'm not sure I understand. Take two users, Marty Mac and Wendy Windows.
>Marty has Studio for OS X and Express for Windows. Wendy has Studio for
>Windows and Express for Mac. Both have the same debugging capabilities,
>i.e., Mac or Windows. Both have the same build ability: Marty and Wendy
>can both build for Mac OS X and Windows, and their apps will be
>byte-identical. Marty's Windows app, built in Studio on OS X, will be
>the same as Wendy's Windows app, built in Studio on XP.

I've seen it reported in these lists several times that e.g. windows
standalones created on a mac will take longer to startup than the same
thing built on the target platform, because the internal scripts or
what-have-you have to be translated to the local format at runtime each
time the program runs. And therefore it has been recommended to build on
the target platform if possible.

I'm *not* saying the deals on offer are necessarily unreasonable because of
this, but I mention this because it seems to me not quite correct to say
that there is no difference between building for windows on mac and
building for windows on windows.

regards

martin



___
use-revolution mailing list
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution

Re: Rev 2.02/New pricing

[Wolfgang M. Bereuter]

hi miscdas
On Friday, Jul 18, 2003, at 13:30 Europe/Vienna, [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
wrote:

Ah, but now we switch the subject from hobbyist to the general 
"anyone". I couldn't agree more in that case. I know several 
"designers" that want to do multimedia apps, and state emphatically 
that they are not programmers (and don't want to be). Express would be 
good for them to make an evaluation.
Thats the point...
I think that potential is very underestimated here...
MM developer dont want to become Hardcore Coder. And I think its not a 
good idea to treat them as poor programmers... Imho its better to try 
to bring them to rev...
If this new more complicated license/pricing system which is the right 
way to do that...?

regards
Wolfgang M. Bereuter
Learn easy with trainingsmaps©
INTERNETTRAINER Wolfgang M. Bereuter
Edelhofg. 17/11, A-1180 Wien, Austria
...
http://www.internettrainer.com, [EMAIL PROTECTED]
...
Tel: ++43/1/ 961 0418, Fax: ++43/1/ 479 2539
___
use-revolution mailing list
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution

Re: RTFText, HTMLText, and Formatted Content in RR

[miscdas]

Wolfgang M. Bereuter writes:
[snip]
On Friday, Jul 18, 2003, at 03:25 Europe/Vienna, Dan Shafer wrote:
 

RTFText supports a tiny subset of the RTF file format. The docs list the 
formatting controls in RTF that are supported by RR. Out of something 
like 1300 control words in the RTF spec, RR supports approximately 30. 
The support is so thin that even a fairly simple book chapter -- which 
includes things like bulleted lists, code samples, and four-level 
headings, renders quite poorly and unusably.
Yes, it's a shame for those that want to develop text-centric apps.  MC/Rev 
look to the developers to help prioritize where to put their $$ for 
new/improved features. So, don't expect text handling improvements to 
develop very quickly. 

I have the same rtf problem since the beginning. Write and format in one 
tool and transfer all that without loosing the formating to other tools. 
Thats very important for writing or working with a lot of text, 
translations and so on. I have struggled a lot for the rtf feature in 
rev...
Now we have it at least!!!
I know its not perfect, but again we have it...;)
The biggest problem is -as always- M$.
I must correct you here. The problem is not MS per say, but rather the RTF 
specification; it is closer to a "guideline" than to a specification that 
explicitly states what is and is not allowed.  MS simply includes more 
"features" in their interpretation of the RTF specs than most other 
companies do. There are some good things that come out of it, such as text 
with full justification. The bad part is, VERY few programs know how to 
display fully justified text. So, the choice is to give it up, or use HTML. 
(Although, if my memomry serves me correctly, Rev choked on imported fully 
justified HTML as well.) 


But there is ( I dont know) no 
other way to deal with formated text between OSes.
No? What happened to HTML? 

What I do is: I write in Mellel OSX only). It does good rtf import also, 
but I have not imported Word rtf files until now. I write in it
I select the text copy it to the clipboard
set the rev textfield to rtf and paste it to the rev textfield.
That works fine. Yes you have to do a bit of fine tuning with tabulators, 
but not the whole slave formatting job again and again. Nearly 95% of the 
formatting is correct here... (Dont know what happens if the text is very 
big, I paste only small parts to the rev textfields up to 3 pages)
Maybe there is a way for XML I dont know how this works...
The future could be pdf import..? 

Hope that helps 

regards
Wolfgang M. Bereuter 

= 

miscdas
___
use-revolution mailing list
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution

Can Rev run 2 scripts simultaneously?

[Igor Couto]

HI all!

I have a project in which there is a script that drives some drawing 
accompanied by an animation in a window (stack). The problem is that 
depending on the drawing/animation settings that the user applies, the 
entire process can take up to a couple of minutes. Even though I have 
provided a progress bar to give feedback to the user, I have found that 
while the drawing and animation are taking place, I can't do anything 
else! - Rev's menus don't respond until the script ends.

I would very much like to be able to carry on with other tasks, while 
the drawing and the animation keeps running in the background - is that 
at all possible?

I thought that if I used the 'send ... in time' command form, that it 
might solve the problem. So setup a button with the send command in a 
substack, trying to use that to trigger the animation. Nevertheless, 
even though the button's script is finished, once the drawing script 
starts in the other stack, I don't seem to be able to use any other 
interface item until it is finished! What am I missing?

I feel that somehow I should be able to run 2 or more scripts 
simultaneously - but can't seem to find a way to do that!

thanks in advance for any insights!

--
Igor de Oliveira Couto
--
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
--
___
use-revolution mailing list
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution

Re: Movie with a mask?

[Graham]

Thanks to all who replied - valuable stuff in each message!

On Thu, 17 Jul 2003 17:14:32 +0200, Klaus Major <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

Hi Graham,
[...]
> But what if the movie requires a different mask per frame?


i don't think this is possible at all :-(

Neither with RR nor with QuickTime...

In QT you can only have one static mask (starting with version 5, i
think...)
Haven't tried to play such a movie in RR yet. Don't have one at hand...
(Anyone did it? Does it work?)
Yup, I did it - no real problem (for the tiny ones I was using anyway) to 
get them to appear, apart from the masking issue. However there appeared to 
be a big performance hit, particularly if you allowed the user to drag the 
player object (with the movie stopped) - this worked far worse than it did 
in SuperCard - but obviously SC has the advantage of only having to work 
with the MacOSs. If you want to see my movies (which are really just tiny 
animations) I can send them to you off list.

---
Try to use one more more animated gifs.
I think this is the only chance to have "moving masks"
(a.k.a. "travelling matte" in serious video-editing business ;-)
in Revolution.
OK, that's my very next thing. I'll tell you how I get on.

On Thu, 17 Jul 2003 08:38:35 -0700, Scott Rossi <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

If you don't have a lot of frames ('a lot' is a relative term) you could use
a series of PNG images which are masked as needed and swap them in sequence
in a button object.
Wow! I hadn't thought of that - the big problem there would seem to be 
speed (I am worried that some of my users - schools in the UK, chronically 
short of money - may have very slow machines). But I am keen to try it.

On Thu, 17 Jul 2003 10:06:06 -0700, "Jim Lambert" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

As previously suggested animatedGIF or PNG.

Or, if the background upon which your movie is lain will always be the same,
just use an old trick - composite that backgroud right into your movie then
run it in an exactly-positioned rect - no mask needed.
Yes, I can manipulate the design of my app to make this possible, so I 
guess that would be the way to go - but as I'm still worried about the 
performance hit, I'll probably try one of the other solutions.

The hidden problem for me in using the other solutions suggested is that I 
want to be able to run the movies forwards or backwards with different 
speeds and always with sync sound (so that the slow speed movies would have 
a deeper, slower sound for example). This is a no-brainer in QT, but for 
every other method (AFAIK) one is just stuck having a whole set of 'movies' 
called, e.g.

slowest, very slow, slow, normal, fast, very fast, fastest - with 
appropriate sound tracks.

Much more messy. OTOH, I think I agree with some other listers who have 
hinted that QT is not **really** a cross-platform solution if one's users 
are hard-pressed non-experts (in my case, teachers who are not teaching 
IT). Much as I wish Apple to succeed, I do see it as an additional 
difficulty to insist that my users download and configure QT.

Thanks again

Graham

---
Graham Samuel / The Living Fossil Co. / UK & France  

___
use-revolution mailing list
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution

How to use a button to STOP a handler?

[Igor Couto]

Hi all! - again...

I have a stack with a script that sometimes takes a long time to 
complete. I would like to allow the user to click on a button to stop 
the handler, if so desired (the handler is simply drawing geometrical 
lines on the card). The problem is that while the script is running, I 
don't seem to be able to have access to any other control in the 
interface - not even Rev's menus!

I tried starting the drawing handler from another stack, using a 'send 
drawRoutine in 1 sec'  command form, thinking that this construct might 
place the running script in a separate thread, thereby freeing the 
interface, but it make absolutely no difference...

How can I achieve this? - is there a way?

Many thanks in advance for any suggestions,

--
Igor de Oliveira Couto
--
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
--
___
use-revolution mailing list
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution

RE: Rev 2.02/New pricing

[Vikram Singh]

What is rev's target market? If Rev is smart, the should be also targeting the 
open-source types (the really swift ones causing Corporations to lose their 
sleep). I'll bet my friends in this arena will puke (okay going too far... but 
you get the idea) if told that apps built by them shall be carrying a colorful 
parting screen. They want to keep the *Corporation* far far away from their 
end users. Its just the way their minds are hardwired, maybe.

Okay look another way, if you want to target web developers, when was the last 
time even MS told them to put 'This Active Server Page created on blah blah.. 
Copyright MS' line in their code. It doesnt happen this way in the web 
services world. There are just useful pages generated by different programs. 
And optional credits given by smitten developers to the application powering 
the service.

In the coming 6 months, I'd rather see a few articles on Rev in a few top 
notch websites/magazines that will get new users downloading Rev (along with 
free professional grade applications on that site) than 10,000 apps carrying 
colorful logos (and thereby *hoping* to get new users for rev). How many of us 
remember the last popup ad we ever took seriously. As far as an end user is 
concerned a popup ad = a parting screen.

Vikram


>= Original Message From Richard Gaskin <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> =
>Geoff Canyon wrote:



>In short, carefully managed publicity pays bigger dividends in markets full
>of smart people than "publicity at any cost" strategies.


>--
> Richard Gaskin
> Fourth World Media Corporation
> Developer of WebMerge 2.2: Publish any database on any site
>

___
use-revolution mailing list
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution

Re: Movie with a mask?

[Scott Rossi]

>> If you don't have a lot of frames ('a lot' is a relative term) you could use
>> a series of PNG images which are masked as needed and swap them in sequence
>> in a button object.
> 
> Wow! I hadn't thought of that - the big problem there would seem to be
> speed (I am worried that some of my users - schools in the UK, chronically
> short of money - may have very slow machines). But I am keen to try it.

Unless you're talking truly old machines or 640x480 sized images, I tjink
you'll find the speed to be very acceptable.


>> As previously suggested animatedGIF or PNG.
>> 
>> Or, if the background upon which your movie is lain will always be the same,
>> just use an old trick - composite that backgroud right into your movie then
>> run it in an exactly-positioned rect - no mask needed.
> 
> Yes, I can manipulate the design of my app to make this possible, so I
> guess that would be the way to go - but as I'm still worried about the
> performance hit, I'll probably try one of the other solutions.
> 
> The hidden problem for me in using the other solutions suggested is that I
> want to be able to run the movies forwards or backwards with different
> speeds and always with sync sound (so that the slow speed movies would have
> a deeper, slower sound for example). This is a no-brainer in QT, but for
> every other method (AFAIK) one is just stuck having a whole set of 'movies'
> called, e.g.
> 
> slowest, very slow, slow, normal, fast, very fast, fastest - with
> appropriate sound tracks.

As you noted, a movie format is certainly going to be a lot easier for you
to manage than frame-by-frame animation or trying to synch up audio with an
animated GIF.  Synching sound with frame-by-frame animations is possible,
but it's more work:

  if the icon of btn myButton = id of img frame1.png then play mySound

It sounds like you need to prioritize your requirements:

- If the key aspect of your project is carefully synched animations and
audio then you should probably go with QuickTime (and/or additional movie
formats) and design your stacks around the QuickTime media.

- If the key aspect of your project is masked animation and sound is less
critical then frame-by-frame animation could work.

Regards,

Scott Rossi
Creative Director

Tactile Media, Multimedia & Design
Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Web: www.tactilemedia.com

___
use-revolution mailing list
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution

Re: Rev 2.02/New pricing

[Malte Brill]

Hi list,

here is my two Euro-cent on this topic.
I think that many people will miss the free starter kit, as it had one relly
huge advantage over a 30-days trial.

>>time<<

You probably might know this scenario:
You want to try a new piece of Software. You Download the 30-days trial
installer, install it play around for a day or two and suddenly you get
really busy with your job, girlfriend, kids or whatever...
You open up the program you wanted to give a testdrive and get a nice
dialogue box saying that the demo expiered...

What would you do? Go and buy the programm?
I guess I wouldn´t.

Next point. Open the 30-days trial without a printed book, don´t know where
to start without a multimedia background. Get frustrated within the first 2
days. Open up again after a period of time -> Demo expiered.

IMHO a 30 days trial does only make sense if it counts the effective days of
use, not the installation Date.
How will this be in the new version(s) of Revolution?

I really understand that RunRev need to make their living.
I also think the pricing is fair.

But I guess with the new limitations Revolution looses a lot of its
sexappeal and the small "inconveniences" will be a bit harder to swallow for
new potential purchasers.
So I guess without a really good promotion concept and 3rd party books the
userbase won´t grow.

The new concept lacks simplicity and the charme I loved about Rev.
Develop once, debug, test and publish anywhere.
And due to the lack of localized versions many people (on the geman market
at last) might consider other tools...

I´m not complaining. Just thinking a lot.

Regards,

Malte

___
use-revolution mailing list
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution

Re: Rev 2.02/New pricing

[miscdas]

Wolfgang M. Bereuter writes: 

hi miscdas
On Friday, Jul 18, 2003, at 13:30 Europe/Vienna, [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
wrote: 

Ah, but now we switch the subject from hobbyist to the general "anyone". 
I couldn't agree more in that case. I know several "designers" that want 
to do multimedia apps, and state emphatically that they are not 
programmers (and don't want to be). Express would be good for them to 
make an evaluation.
Thats the point...
I think that potential is very underestimated here... 

MM developer dont want to become Hardcore Coder. And I think its not a 
good idea to treat them as poor programmers... Imho its better to try to 
bring them to rev...
Wolfgang, let me add that I belong to other MM authoring lists, and the 
biggest single complaint by the "designers" is that they DON"T want to write 
code, scripts whatever; they want drag-and-drop or click-and-place objects, 
and then "script helpers" that list commands and functions that a selected 
object supports along with an example of the syntax in HUMAN UNDERSTANDABLE 
(as opposed to programmer understable) terms. Rev certainly doesn't have 
that, and from John's post (subject: "Me the potenital buyer"), 
documentation that is geared to programmers and leaves out others is a huge 
barrier to overcome, resulting in many giving up early in the game. This is 
complaint number 2 by the newbies. 

If this new more complicated license/pricing system which is the right way 
to do that...? 

The new licensing does nothing to rectify the documentation needed to 
address the  "non-programmer newbie that really COULD eventially be a paying 
customer if only there were coherent, concise newbie-friendly docs and 
tutorials". Sarah was kind enough to list some of the available mish-mash of 
dcoumentaion and help--
"Metacard has a good tutorial: mtp.mc at ..."
"After that, since there aren't any Rev books out there yet, I recommend a 
HyperCard book..." ('OUCH!' says Newbie, 'What am I doing reading about 
Hyper whatever--isn't this Revolution??') 

"Also any demo stacks can be loaded straight into Revolution although they 
can have some problems if they use menus..." ('Demo problems?', laments 
Newbie, 'I haven't even started to evaluate Revoluton and you're telling me 
I am going to have problems with Demos?? OUCH again!') 

"I'm not sure that all these are still in print, but they can usually be 
found." ('Oh boy", moans Newbie, 'now I have to go searching for the books, 
too?!?') 

"...I assume you have done the tutorials that come with Revolution and if 
you have Rev 2.0, you will see the new Cookbook section which has quite a 
lot of example scripts. There are also numerous stacks available at the User 
Contributions section of the RunRev website and other places - all of which 
can be taken apart, examined, changed, tested etc so you can work out what 
is going on."  ('Well', despairs Newbie, 'I wish I knew something about how 
to "take apart and examine scripts". But since I have barely even started, 
and can't find a good book for beginners, and have to go from site-to-site 
to find examples, and couldn't find any instructions about taking apart 
scripts in the dictionary, (maybe it's there, but I can't find it) I guess 
this Revolution thing just isn't for me. I must be really stupid--or maybe 
you "programmers" are all geniuses!')
And so departs another frustrated Newbie, once hopeful of authoring some 
"cool apps", now fallen back into the trenches of despair. 


regards
Wolfgang M. Bereuter 

Learn easy with trainingsmaps©
INTERNETTRAINER Wolfgang M. Bereuter
Edelhofg. 17/11, A-1180 Wien, Austria


miscdas
___
use-revolution mailing list
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution

main Stacks and substacks

[Revinfo1155]

1. How many substacks can a main stack have?

2. Can a mainstack with substacks be placed into another mainstack with substacks? Or can one just place mainstacks which become substacks of another mainstack?

Thanks for help

Jack

Re: main Stacks and substacks

[Klaus Major]

Hi Jack,  (hijack? :-)

1. How many substacks can a main stack have?
I am not sure...

I know that the size of a stack, card or background can be up to 4 GB.

This may include all substacks, too.

But i am sure it will take a long time, until you reach this limit 
:-)

Please notify this list about the exact number, when you get the first 
error
reporting that you have reached the "substacks-in-a-mainstack" limit ;-)

2. Can a mainstack with substacks be placed into another mainstack
with substacks?
No.

You will have to extract the substacks to separate mainstacks in that 
case and set
their "mainstack"-prop to the other mainstack...

Or can one just place mainstacks which become substacks of another 
mainstack?
Yo/Nes ;-)

In priciple that  statement is correct.

But you can always change the "mainstack"-prop of a substack like:

...
set the mainstack of stack "sub a" of stack "main a" to "main b"
...
Thanks for help
You're welcome :-)

Jack
Hope that helps.

Regards

Klaus Major
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
www.major-k.de
___
use-revolution mailing list
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution

Re: Rev 2.02/New pricing

[Geoff Canyon]

On Friday, July 18, 2003, at 04:30  AM, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

Geoff Canyon writes:
The Starter Kit was great for anyone who had the open-mindedness to 
look beyond the popular conception of what can be done in ten lines 
of code and the perseverance to work within the actual confines of 
that limit.
Considering this subject relates to hobbyists, you offer a great 
supporting argument for keeping the 10-line limit in tact.
The feedback on this list, in the support email, and elsewhere, has 
been that this isn't the case. Few people look at the ten line limit as 
a useful amount of code.

Ten lines of code is a very fuzzy limitation, because you can't know 
ahead of time how clever you'll be at building within that limit, and 
you can't even have a marginally accurate conception until you've 
used Revolution extensively.
Again, exactly the kind of challenging nut a hobbyist enjoys cracking.
I believe you will find the hobbyists contributing solutions to 
problems that would otherwise go un- or under-answered because "real 
developers" simply can't justify the time investment.
Again, the feedback has contradicted this. No one has expressed 
enjoyment at puzzling their way within the ten-line limit, and many 
have expressed frustration.

regards,

Geoff Canyon
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
___
use-revolution mailing list
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution

Re: Can Rev run 2 scripts simultaneously?

[Geoff Canyon]

Depending on how your task breaks down, send...in would be one way to 
do this. You need to break the task into distinct pieces, each of which 
is small enough not to interfere with the user. The alternative is to 
insert

wait 0 milliseconds with messages

in your script. Again, this has to be interspersed enough that you pay 
enough attention to the user.

With either solution, you need to make sure that the user is protected 
from breaking things. Don't allow the user to (re)start the process 
repeatedly, for example.

On Friday, July 18, 2003, at 05:22  AM, Igor Couto wrote:

HI all!

I have a project in which there is a script that drives some drawing 
accompanied by an animation in a window (stack). The problem is that 
depending on the drawing/animation settings that the user applies, the 
entire process can take up to a couple of minutes. Even though I have 
provided a progress bar to give feedback to the user, I have found 
that while the drawing and animation are taking place, I can't do 
anything else! - Rev's menus don't respond until the script ends.

I would very much like to be able to carry on with other tasks, while 
the drawing and the animation keeps running in the background - is 
that at all possible?

I thought that if I used the 'send ... in time' command form, that it 
might solve the problem. So setup a button with the send command in a 
substack, trying to use that to trigger the animation. Nevertheless, 
even though the button's script is finished, once the drawing script 
starts in the other stack, I don't seem to be able to use any other 
interface item until it is finished! What am I missing?

I feel that somehow I should be able to run 2 or more scripts 
simultaneously - but can't seem to find a way to do that!

thanks in advance for any insights!

--
Igor de Oliveira Couto
--
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
--
___
use-revolution mailing list
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution

regards,

Geoff Canyon
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
___
use-revolution mailing list
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution

Docs on Palm (was Rev 2.02/New pricing)

[James Richards]

on 18/7/03  12:53:24 +1000, Sarah <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

> (For casual reading, I'd love a version that could go on to my Palm. If anyone
> has any great ideas how to do that, let me know.)

and on 18 Jul 2003 16:36:40 +1000 Sarah <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote

> Finally, if you want the docs in a separate electronic format, go to
> http://www.inspiredlogic.com/downloads.html where Geoff Canyon has a
> stack that will export the docs into html, rtf or text.

Sarah,

What functionality are you looking for? I use DocumentsToGo from dataviz
(http://www.dataviz.com) to put WP documents on my Palm compatible. If you
use Geoff's stack and open the docs in your WP do any tidying you need to
then DTG will turn it into a Palm file. It can either do a basic text file
or a slightly more formatted file including a bookmarking.

On Mac it will do AppleWorks or Word documents, also spreadsheets and
(depending on software/hardware) graphics and PDF files. I guess it will
also do the standards for Windows too.

Regards

James
-- 
James J Richards

[EMAIL PROTECTED]

Tel. +44 (0)15394 43063 

___
use-revolution mailing list
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution

newsgroup

[Hans Ydelm]

Hi All,

This must have come up from time to time but due to the amount of
traffic on this mailing list wouldn't a newsgroup be better?

Regards,
Hans. 

___
use-revolution mailing list
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution

Re: Rev 2.02/New pricing

[Geoff Canyon]

Anyone who doesn't want the exit screen has merely to purchase the 
Studio or Enterprise license, neither of which includes it.

The exit screen is part of the bargain when you get Revolution for 
(currently) $75.

On Friday, July 18, 2003, at 05:32  AM, Vikram Singh wrote:

What is rev's target market? If Rev is smart, the should be also 
targeting the
open-source types (the really swift ones causing Corporations to lose 
their
sleep). I'll bet my friends in this arena will puke (okay going too 
far... but
you get the idea) if told that apps built by them shall be carrying a 
colorful
parting screen. They want to keep the *Corporation* far far away from 
their
end users. Its just the way their minds are hardwired, maybe.

Okay look another way, if you want to target web developers, when was 
the last
time even MS told them to put 'This Active Server Page created on blah 
blah..
Copyright MS' line in their code. It doesnt happen this way in the web
services world. There are just useful pages generated by different 
programs.
And optional credits given by smitten developers to the application 
powering
the service.

In the coming 6 months, I'd rather see a few articles on Rev in a few 
top
notch websites/magazines that will get new users downloading Rev 
(along with
free professional grade applications on that site) than 10,000 apps 
carrying
colorful logos (and thereby *hoping* to get new users for rev). How 
many of us
remember the last popup ad we ever took seriously. As far as an end 
user is
concerned a popup ad = a parting screen.
regards,

Geoff Canyon
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
___
use-revolution mailing list
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution

Re: Rev 2.02/New pricing

[Kevin Miller]

Hi Folks,

I'm at MacWorld at the moment.  Recently, we've taken over MetaCard, gone to
WWDC, are at MacWorld, have almost completed 2.1 and overhauled the product
line up.  Answers to all the questions you are posting exist, no one has had
time to release them and we needed to release the pricing policy available
for *new* users at MacWorld.

Please, rest assured that the policies for existing license holders and
original Revolutionaries will be generous and flexible, and the various
negative scenarios are either far fetched or not true.  I'll post all the
details when we have a chance to write them up - after the show.  So hold
off for a few days and do some development for now :-)

Kind regards,

Kevin

Kevin Miller <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> 
Runtime Revolution Limited: Software at the Speed of Thought
Tel: +44 (0) 870 747 1165.  Fax: +44 (0)1639 830 707.

___
use-revolution mailing list
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution

Re: Rev 2.02/New pricing

[Geoff Canyon]

On Friday, July 18, 2003, at 04:27  AM, Martin Baxter wrote:

I've seen it reported in these lists several times that e.g. windows
standalones created on a mac will take longer to startup than the same
thing built on the target platform, because the internal scripts or
what-have-you have to be translated to the local format at runtime each
time the program runs. And therefore it has been recommended to build 
on
the target platform if possible.
Yes. Well. Erm... I never said the bytes were in the same _order_, just 
that they were the same. ;-)

In reality, for most apps this has no consequence. Functionality should 
be identical. The translation happens transparently, and except in the 
case of _large_ quantities of text is extremely fast. Anyone have a 
benchmark?

regards,

Geoff Canyon
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
___
use-revolution mailing list
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution

RE: Rev 2.02/New pricing

[Ken Norris]

Hello Rev folk,

I agree with Chipp on this. I _am_ a newbie, in the sense that I haven't
done much work in Rev, and I'm _not_ a professional programmer. I want to
create solutions for the disabled and some eduware, for right now. Who
knows, maybe someday I'll become a pro, but not right now. What that means
is that it may be more important for it to have some immediate function, and
to experiment with some individual solutions, than to have a polished look
and feel. I will take the lead in staying in contact with users to see what
works and what they want changed, etc., but commercial consumption may come
later if at all. Nevertheless,there may be some of these kinds of things
floating around for experimentation and testing.

So, a few deliberately unfinished, unpolished projects may be out there. I
don't want "Made with Rev..." stuff on them, or even my own, at least not
until the modifications and cohesive assembly of some modules are more
complete. That actually might never happen with some things.

> From: "Chipp Walters" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> Subject: RE: Rev 2.02/New pricing
> Date: Thu, 17 Jul 2003 22:09:45 -0500
> 
> Now, I'm not trying to denigrate or belittle newbie RR programmers at
> all...it's just one would expect RR to want to splash their logo on the
> *best* of it's developer's work...not the beginners. I think the ABOUT box
> (the way it is currently) is just fine.

___
use-revolution mailing list
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution

Re: Rev 2.02/New pricing (The novel)

[curry]

Geoff Canyon wrote:

 >> re: final compiles: it shouldn't matter, at least as far as the
 >> result.
...
 > It would matter, obviously, or I wouldn't have mentioned it. (Hint: we
 > were talking Studio + Express.)
...
Both have the same build ability: Marty and Wendy
can both build for Mac OS X and Windows, and their apps will be
byte-identical. Marty's Windows app, built in Studio on OS X, will be
the same as Wendy's Windows app, built in Studio on XP.
I'm trying to involve you in considering these points more 
thoroughly, rather than just giving you the short answer. 
Byte-identical standalones are only one aspect to consider in this 
situation.

In fact, bringing Mary and Wendy into the picture may be a good idea, 
because the difference I'm trying to get you to see involves the 
developers and their work environment in addition to the Rev IDE and 
the applications produced. Imagine Marty and Wendy at work on their 
applications. They edit, they build...then what? (You may have to 
consider a few different types of people and work too--to make it 
simple, let's just compare me to Marty and assume he's making 
shareware.)

Let's take a look at Marty in his small home office room

So, Marty tweaks and gets the Windows copy working right on his 
Express version, then copies the stack back to his Mac.

Then, he gets his Windows app built from his Mac and (as Martin 
suggested--good example) he opens it on PC to change the file format. 
Even if it was a small enough file to ignore that, how is he going to 
package the file? It depends on what Marty is using, but he may very 
well compress and package his Windows versions with different 
software (Windows software) than his Mac versions. And there may be 
other similar needs. So he still needs to transfer the app back to 
his PC.

Now, is Marty on a network? Maybe, maybe not. Since he's using Studio 
rather than Enterprise, let's assume maybe he's still not set up 
quite that well with equipment, and isn't networked. So he may 
transfer by internet or removable media, and the stack itself may 
have fit on a floppy, but the app won't, so Marty may have to take 
some time switching internet connections (he's just a Studio user, 
remember, and may be cutting a few corners) or he may have to go get 
a zip drive or two if he doesn't have one.

Ah...now the file is on the internet! But wait--is it the final 
release, or a beta? Either way, Marty may find that users report a 
bug or two that must be fixed right away. And he may have some 
problems with files or servers. Any number of things may make Marty 
have to go back and repeat his compiling process--and here's where 
the concept of workflow really begins to kick in: you don't just 
consider one iteration of a process; you have to consider what 
happens when it repeats, too. It may be repeated on the same project 
as well as repeated on different projects.

In fact, that's precisely the reason why Marty had purchased an 
Express version too (a rather ungainly and expensive combination to 
keep up after the initial sale price ended) to add to what was 
supposed to be a rather complete solution in itself. Marty's Studio 
version cranked out byte-identical copies of Windows apps, but Marty 
was developing cross-platform, so he some changes and tweaks were 
often needed. He used platform-conditional code, as many other 
developers did, and that had to tested to see if there were no 
bugs--and often, even when there were no bugs, he saw places for 
improvements to be added when testing.

If that only happened once, it wouldn't have been so bad. If it was 
only a case of verifying and changes were only needed once or twice a 
year, it wouldn't have been bad at all! But in fact, changes were 
often needed, and sometimes there were problems that were hard to 
track down and had to be tested repeatedly--each time jotting down 
notes and going back to try a few changes to the code, and repeating 
the tedious process of getting it back to the PC and opening again to 
try it again.

Finally, Marty had realized that his time was slipping away. His 
friend Wendy had told him he was getting to be a nervous wreck. In 
desperation, he had added an Express version and started juggling the 
two.

So why didn't Marty just get a Enterprise version? Is that the 
solution to workflow? Perhaps, but Marty bought Studio as a complete 
cross-platform tool within his budget. Can we blame him for doing 
this when he was encouraged to do so? Unfortunately, Marty's budget 
is still roughly the same. He and Wendy get together and look at his 
books--she's better with accounts--and they agree that he just can't 
swing it this year. Maybe next year. In fact, Wendy warns him that 
his finances aren't going to withstand his Express addiction much 
longer. Marty's sunken eyes look tiredly from his Mac, to his PC, and 
back to the Mac again. Is Studio a complete product? He can't deny 
it; it's byte-identical. But the workflow...the workflow...

Re: RTFText, HTMLText, and Formatted Content in RR

[Dan Shafer]

Wolfgang Bereuter wrote:

 I write in it
I select the text copy it to the clipboard
set the rev textfield to rtf and paste it to the rev textfield.
Wolfgang, could you elaborate just a bit? I don't quite know what you 
mean abou tsetting the textfield to RTF *before* you paste the text. Do 
you "set the rtfText of field 1 to 'a'" or some such thing? I think the 
rtfText of a field can only be set by supplying it with a string (which 
is generally something read from a file, I think). Or am I missing 
something?

___
use-revolution mailing list
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution

RE: Rev 2.02/New pricing

[Chipp Walters]

Geoff,

> There seem to be three arguments against the Express closing screen:
>
> 1. Potential clients/developers won't want the closing screen on their
> apps.
> Answer: get Studio or Enterprise.
>
> 2. End Users will be frustrated by the closing screen.
> Answer: it is (my understanding) brief and somewhat entertaining.
>

Forget these two...the issue is not even this third one...

> 3. Potential clients/developers will be turned off by the perceived
> lack of quality in Revolution-developed apps because awareness that a
> given app was created with Revolution will correlate with the
> newest/least serious developers.
> Answer: this is the hardest to answer. The decline of Director is
> being blamed on the "Made with Director" campaign. Could that campaign
> also be credited with the previous success of Director? The product had
> a very good run. Maybe the right business plan is to gain awareness
> with such a campaign only until you see traction in the marketplace,
> and then pull the campaign and let your product speak with its own (now
> much louder) voice?

Now, it's plain to me, as an employee, you are doing your best to support
this policy. But have you really stopped and thought about this issue
carefully? I, too, am invested in the success of RR, not only from an
financial investor's viewpoint, but even moreso from a developer's one.

WE are not saying the splash screen killed Director -- that's NOT the main
point here. What we're saying is it killed the perception of the kind of
quality apps which can be made by Director. Referring to HyperCard (as you
did in another post) also, isn't the point. Not many of us attempted to sell
large-scale Enterprise apps on the HyperCard platform.

Here's the main point: The success of Revolution, ultimately, is a function
of a strong developer community and the perception of RR's ability to
accomplish real programming.

What ended up killing Director was the lack of both of the above.

Once it was perceived that Director was not powerful enough to create real
projects, no amount of discussion, nor examples could change the minds of
customers. Once *that* happened, it was only a matter of time until Director
died -- as the strong developer community left Director in favor of other
authoring tools.

The thought of many simpleton standalones at 2.5Mb each with the RR logo
blasted across them seems a sure fire way to create the impression that RR
is not a professional tool. Once this impression is created, it will be VERY
difficult to change. This in-product advertising is NOT in the best interest
of RR or it's developers.

Your many and quick-witted replies to this subject indicates to me this is
serious issue. I suggest your time (and ours) may be better spent in trying
to find another way to 'cripple' the low-end edition...or at least say, "We
will consider this request."

--Chipp


___
use-revolution mailing list
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution

Re: Rev 2.02/New pricing

[James Richards]

on 18/7/03 14:51:14 +0200, [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Malte Brill) wrote:

> IMHO a 30 days trial does only make sense if it counts the effective days of
> use, not the installation Date.

I agree wholeheartedly. Malte is describing the kind of user I am. My HC
dabbling in the past means that I *do* understand both the limitations and
the possibilities of the ten line limit. On the new system I would only try
Rev when I knew I had got a month to spare (!). I'd be discouraged from
trying/buying Rev by a vicious combination of my time and finance budgets. I
have other full time employment than programming, but I have a couple of
ideas for some small utilities in my own field (minister of religion) which
would need to be cross platform to be worth putting energy into. They would
be unlikely to generate any significant income.

I agree with this too:
> IMHO a 30 days trial does only make sense if it counts the effective days of
> use, not the installation Date.

Regards

James
-- 
James J Richards

[EMAIL PROTECTED]

Tel. +44 (0)15394 43063 

___
use-revolution mailing list
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution

RE: Rev 2.02/New pricing

[Vikram Singh]

So you are ready to live with a less than rapid adoption among the developers  
for a small issue. The first impression is the last impression, in many cases. 
Hope the price list doesnt confuse the movers and shakers of the IT world 
(who's word we all hope will help create new markets for Rev).

It is like going to buy a new sony music system and the store keeper offering 
a 80% discount to permanently stamp his shop's address on the body front. Had 
the price been around 20% less than Studio's price, say, it would have made 
sense to me. Here is a company that is sure of its product, is offering a 
small discount for inserting a page. But such a huge price differential seems 
strange to me, if seen from the eyes of a newbie.

Why dont you revert to the old policy? Show confidence that the product will 
sell at a decent price. Name your price. It is a premium product. So say it. 
It is pretty jazzed up now. And for the 'hobbyist' she/he always has the 
option of the free version. Do 75 dollars 'hobbyists' exist, maybe somewhere. 
Eliminate this option altogether, IMHO. Or eliminate the screen. Or raise the 
price, closer to the Studio price.

Regards

Vikram

>= Original Message From Geoff Canyon <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> =
>Anyone who doesn't want the exit screen has merely to purchase the
>Studio or Enterprise license, neither of which includes it.
>
>The exit screen is part of the bargain when you get Revolution for
>(currently) $75.
>
>On Friday, July 18, 2003, at 05:32  AM, Vikram Singh wrote:
>
>> What is rev's target market? If Rev is smart, the should be also
>> targeting the
>> open-source types (the really swift ones causing Corporations to lose
>> their
>> sleep). I'll bet my friends in this arena will puke (okay going too
>> far... but
>> you get the idea) if told that apps built by them shall be carrying a
>> colorful
>> parting screen. They want to keep the *Corporation* far far away from
>> their
>> end users. Its just the way their minds are hardwired, maybe.
>>
>> Okay look another way, if you want to target web developers, when was
>> the last
>> time even MS told them to put 'This Active Server Page created on blah
>> blah..
>> Copyright MS' line in their code. It doesnt happen this way in the web
>> services world. There are just useful pages generated by different
>> programs.
>> And optional credits given by smitten developers to the application
>> powering
>> the service.
>>
>> In the coming 6 months, I'd rather see a few articles on Rev in a few
>> top
>> notch websites/magazines that will get new users downloading Rev
>> (along with
>> free professional grade applications on that site) than 10,000 apps
>> carrying
>> colorful logos (and thereby *hoping* to get new users for rev). How
>> many of us
>> remember the last popup ad we ever took seriously. As far as an end
>> user is
>> concerned a popup ad = a parting screen.
>
>regards,
>
>Geoff Canyon
>[EMAIL PROTECTED]
>
>___
>use-revolution mailing list
>[EMAIL PROTECTED]
>http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution

___
use-revolution mailing list
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution

Re: "splash" screen

[Barry Levine]

Sh-tcan the splash screen. No matter when or where it appears, it's 
intrusive.

Of course, if RR wants to PAY ME a product placement fee for each copy 
of MY program I distribute, that is another matter. I think 10% of my 
product's selling price (per copy) is fair.

Barry

On Thursday, Jul 17, 2003, at 23:09 America/Denver, 
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

Agreed, perhaps a democratic show of hands can convince RR to 
reconsider the
splash screen.
___
use-revolution mailing list
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution

Re: What Gives?

[J. Landman Gay]

On 7/18/03 1:07 AM, Geoff Canyon wrote:

On Thursday, July 17, 2003, at 09:21  PM, J. Landman Gay wrote:

On 7/16/03 5:32 PM, Simtech Publications wrote:

I'm finding that I can't use any keyboard shortcuts at all.


I just saw this over at MacFixit -- could this be the problem?


Jacque, if this turns out to be the answer, I think you've just sewn up 
a bottle of whiskey for next year's list helper ;-)
Good deal, that would be nice. I'd like the bottle to have a tag "Made 
with Rev" on it though. :)

--
Jacqueline Landman Gay | [EMAIL PROTECTED]
HyperActive Software   | http://www.hyperactivesw.com
___
use-revolution mailing list
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution

Re: main Stacks and substacks

[Jeanne A. E. DeVoto]

At 6:41 AM -0700 7/18/03, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
>1. How many substacks can a main stack have?

As many as it wants. (There is no hard limit on the number, although if you
have very large number of substacks and the file grows large you may run
into memory issues.)


> 2. Can a mainstack with substacks be placed into another mainstack with
>substacks? Or can one just place mainstacks which become substacks of
>another mainstack?

A stack file can have only one main stack, so if you move a main stack to
another file, it becomes a substack - there's no nesting of multiple main
stacks.

--
Jeanne A. E. DeVoto ~ [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Runtime Revolution Limited - Software at the Speed of Thought
http://www.runrev.com/


___
use-revolution mailing list
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution

Re: RTFText, HTMLText, and Formatted Content in RR

[Jeanne A. E. DeVoto]

There is a general distinction here to be made, between character
formatting and paragraph formatting.

Character formatting - font, size, style, and color changes that may be
applied to any part of a line or lines - is well-supported in Rev using
either HTML and RTF formats.

Paragraph formatting - alignment of individual paragraphs, header levels,
list formats, and so on - is not. This is not so much because of lack of
support in the RTFText and HTMLText properties, per se, as because fields
don't support these things (at least not yet). A field is more like a
SimpleText window than like a Word window, in terms of the formatting
options it supports: you can do character formatting, but although you can
set alignment, tab stops, and margins field-wide, you can't set them for
individual paragraphs.

I don't suppose this observation really helps, in terms of getting the
formatting you want to import from Word, but it may help clarify why some
things are supported and others aren't, and help you predict what
formatting will and won't transfer.

I know that some of these paragraph formatting options for fields have been
feature requested - because *I've* requested them ;-) - and I anticipate
that if and when they're added to fields, the RTFText property will also be
updated to support them.

--
Jeanne A. E. DeVoto ~ [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Runtime Revolution Limited - Software at the Speed of Thought
http://www.runrev.com/


___
use-revolution mailing list
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution

translated to the local format at runtime [Re: Rev 2.02/New pricing]

[Alex Rice]

On Friday, July 18, 2003, at 08:33  AM, Geoff Canyon wrote:
Yes. Well. Erm... I never said the bytes were in the same _order_, 
just that they were the same. ;-)

In reality, for most apps this has no consequence. Functionality 
should be identical. The translation happens transparently, and except 
in the case of _large_ quantities of text is extremely fast. Anyone 
have a benchmark?
My project builds a single-file executable approx 5-6 MB in size, which 
includes 17 substacks and about 120 cards. The automatic 
isotomac()/mactoiso() text conversion by RR is very fast.

AFAIK what is being the converted is not scripts or custom properties, 
only the text on buttons and fields on the cards of the app.

I haven't got any actual benchmarks, but my feeling is that when you 
factor in varying CPU speeds, and disk caching, it becomes a non-issue. 
By disk caching I mean the initial launches take ~ 2-3 seconds on my 
mapp. Then after the first launch of the app, subsequent launches take 
< 1 second. Whatever the time it takes to do the text translations, 
it's not subjectively noticeable. It's less time than the initial 
reading of the app from disk.

But technically speaking yes this is one difference between builds in 
Mac and builds on Windows. ;-)

BTW do Unix RR engines use the same text encoding as the Windows RR 
engine does?

Alex Rice, Software Developer
Architectural Research Consultants, Inc.
http://ARCplanning.com
___
use-revolution mailing list
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution

Re: Rev 2.02/New pricing

[Wolfgang M. Bereuter]

On Thursday, Jul 17, 2003, at 03:37 Europe/Vienna, Howard Bornstein 
wrote:

Call me silly, but I always hoped we'd here about this stuff first
on this list, rather than seeing it on the web site.
Its imho NOT silly...

regards
Wolfgang M. Bereuter
Learn easy with trainingsmaps©
INTERNETTRAINER Wolfgang M. Bereuter
Edelhofg. 17/11, A-1180 Wien, Austria
...
http://www.internettrainer.com, [EMAIL PROTECTED]
...
Tel: ++43/1/ 961 0418, Fax: ++43/1/ 479 2539
___
use-revolution mailing list
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution

Re: Rev 2.02/New pricing (The novel)

[Wolfgang M. Bereuter]

On Friday, Jul 18, 2003, at 16:35 Europe/Vienna, curry wrote:

-- I hope that *illustrates* some of the points that have been made. 
:-) --
ILLUSTRATES PERFECTLY

regards
Wolfgang M. Bereuter
Learn easy with trainingsmaps©
INTERNETTRAINER Wolfgang M. Bereuter
Edelhofg. 17/11, A-1180 Wien, Austria
...
http://www.internettrainer.com, [EMAIL PROTECTED]
...
Tel: ++43/1/ 961 0418, Fax: ++43/1/ 479 2539
___
use-revolution mailing list
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution

Undocumented Engine Differences [Re: Rev 2.02/New pricing]

[Edwin Gore]

Another issue is that there are undocumented differences between the engines, meaning 
that if you cannot test on the platform you are going to deliver on, things will end 
up breaking.

The proiject I am working on right now has an example - You can't disable items in a 
pop-up menu under Windows. Works perfectly on Mac and unix - in fact, it even works on 
windows if you change the Look and Feel to Mac or Mosaic, but not under the Windows 
Look and Feel.

This particular item is not documented, and would have caused my program's import 
feature to become completely non-functional if I had developed it on the Mac or Linux 
and just made a Windows standalone and distributed it. 

In reality I was developing on Windows, and ran into this, so I was able to create a 
work around. But the point is that issues like this do exist, and they affect the 
ability to "Deliver on all supported platforms".

I'm not trying to convince you to make Studio allow development on all platforms - I'm 
just saying that you might want to be very careful when you  say that it can deliver 
on them all.
___
use-revolution mailing list
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution

Re: me - the potential buyer

[Ryno Swart]

What has stopped me dead in my tracks is that I can't seem to learn the
program. As a newcomer, I can tell you that the online help system
stinks - not enough examples, not enough detail in the
vocabulary/syntax areas, and a vaporware manual. Try finding how to use
the debug feature of the program. This may sound silly to you
experienced folks, but I'm an intelligent and capable learner, really
working to learn the product, and it's a quagmire.
That took a bit of guts, John. I find myself in the same position, well 
not age-wise... Just short of 60, I have been teaching myself 
Javascript (still learning), and Photoshop and Illustrator, and now the 
viola, and I see myself as perfectly intelligent, but there are some 
things I just cannot get to work. The list is brilliant, but it is a 
bit intimidating to ask really ground level questions, and particularly 
to ask them over and over until you get some darn thing not just to 
work, but to sing. I'm hoping revSchool might help in encouraging lots 
of questions, otherwise maybe some kind of list for smart dunces.

Ryno.
http://artistvision.org
___
use-revolution mailing list
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution

Re: RTFText, HTMLText, and Formatted Content in RR

[Wolfgang M. Bereuter]

On Friday, Jul 18, 2003, at 16:45 Europe/Vienna, Dan Shafer wrote:

I don't quite know what you mean abou tsetting the textfield to RTF 
*before* you paste the text. Do you "set the rtfText of field 1 to 
'a'" or some such thing? I think the rtfText of a field can only be 
set by supplying it with a string (which is generally something read 
from a file, I think). Or am I missing something?

I
I do it with this script in the Message Box (hehe, its the first time a 
used that "animal")
How and why this exactly works I dont know, maybe one of the scripting 
Gurus can help out...
Here is the great posting from Vikram, with which I learned to do that.

RTF vs HTML
Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]

I can't talk of the benefits of exporting rtf as files, but if you are
copy-pasting from other apps this may interest you:
Copy a portion of a webpage. In the message box type:
set the rtftext of fld 1 to clipboarddata["rtf"]
And viceversa, paste into Word after copying the rtftext of a field:
set the clipboarddata["rtf"] to the rtftext of fld 1
etc..

Rgds,
Vikram
-
copy the rtf (exported) text (from any fileformat you have) to the 
clipboard
select any textfield in rev
-- to the message box: 
set the rtftext of fld 1 to clipboarddata["rtf"]
Enter
And the formated text is in the textfield

Select "basic properties" in the property palette if it is open
after pasting you can select "contents" to make some fine tuning...)
dont select content before pasting, that does not work here...
means all is in the textfield, but does not appear in the content of 
the palette
Why?? -- One of this thousand rev miracles..?

Hope that helps, if not pls tell me.

regards
Wolfgang M. Bereuter
Learn easy with trainingsmaps©
INTERNETTRAINER Wolfgang M. Bereuter
Edelhofg. 17/11, A-1180 Wien, Austria
...
http://www.internettrainer.com, [EMAIL PROTECTED]
...
Tel: ++43/1/ 961 0418, Fax: ++43/1/ 479 2539
___
use-revolution mailing list
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution

Re: you - the potential buyer

[Klaus Major]

Hi Ryno,

What has stopped me dead in my tracks is that I can't seem to learn 
the
program. As a newcomer, I can tell you that the online help system
stinks - not enough examples, not enough detail in the
vocabulary/syntax areas, and a vaporware manual. Try finding how to 
use
the debug feature of the program. This may sound silly to you
experienced folks, but I'm an intelligent and capable learner, really
working to learn the product, and it's a quagmire.
That took a bit of guts, John. I find myself in the same position, 
well not age-wise...
Just short of 60, I have been teaching myself Javascript (still 
learning), and Photoshop
and Illustrator, and now the viola, and I see myself as perfectly 
intelligent,
coool, keep on learning, it will keep you alive :-)

but there are some things I just cannot get to work. The list is 
brilliant, but it is
a bit intimidating to ask really ground level questions, and 
particularly to ask
I cannot but to encourage you to ask, ask, ask this list as much and as 
basic
questions as they appear...

Noone will point with the finger towards you and if someone does, i'd 
love to
show him/her my complete collection of baseball bats :-D

(Hey, its just me, "jokeordie"-"47 and completely selftaught"-Klaus :-D)

them over and over until you get some darn thing not just to work, but 
to sing.
I even offer you to write me offlist (like many others did before, 
maybe because
of the same reasons and everytime we MADE their work sing :-) and i 
will love
to helps you out or try to explain some (hard to understand) basics.

I'm hoping revSchool might help in encouraging lots of questions, 
otherwise
maybe some kind of list for smart dunces.
Here is a new revboard wher you can join and get help:

http://www.esashi.org/yabb/YaBB.pl

Ryno.
http://artistvision.org
Hope that helps.

Regards

Klaus Major
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
www.major-k.de
___
use-revolution mailing list
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution

Re: Rev 2.02/New pricing

[Wolfgang M. Bereuter]

On Friday, Jul 18, 2003, at 17:08 Europe/Vienna, Vikram Singh wrote:

Why dont you revert to the old policy? Show confidence that the 
product will
sell at a decent price. Name your price. It is a premium product. So 
say it.
It is pretty jazzed up now. And for the 'hobbyist' she/he always has 
the
option of the free version. Do 75 dollars 'hobbyists' exist, maybe 
somewhere.
Eliminate this option altogether, IMHO. Or eliminate the screen. Or 
raise the
price, closer to the Studio price.


Regards

Vikram

= Original Message From Geoff Canyon <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> 
=
Anyone who doesn't want the exit screen has merely to purchase the
Studio or Enterprise license, neither of which includes it.

The exit screen is part of the bargain when you get Revolution for
(currently) $75.
Agree with Vikram!!

Geoff, dont forget that this $75 bargain is over before the the 30 day 
trial period. And then you have to pay the full price for watching the 
Sony Logo all the time...

regards
Wolfgang M. Bereuter
Learn easy with trainingsmaps©
INTERNETTRAINER Wolfgang M. Bereuter
Edelhofg. 17/11, A-1180 Wien, Austria
...
http://www.internettrainer.com, [EMAIL PROTECTED]
...
Tel: ++43/1/ 961 0418, Fax: ++43/1/ 479 2539
___
use-revolution mailing list
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution

Re: you - the potential buyer

[Klaus Major]

Hi all,

i forgot to mention another very valuabel resource:

http://www.xworlds.com/metacard/

Click on "MetaClass".

Just replace "MetaCard" with "Revolution" and there you go...

Very good explanation of some very essential things...

Helped ME a lot :-)

Have a nice weekend.

Regards

Klaus Major
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
www.major-k.de


P.S.
I also vote for the "StarterKit"!!!
This was the best thing ever!!!
I even created a (not too ;-) commercial windows cd-rom with it soon 
after the first
win-version was available...
No shit!!!

And with the money i got for that job i bought my first MetaCard 
pro-license.

Right after that i could create a more elaborate cd-rom, crossplatform 
mac/win...

So where would i be without the StarterKit?
(Please don't answer that ;-)
___
use-revolution mailing list
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution

Re: Magnifier

[Richard Gaskin]

Ken Norris wrote:

> I recently looked over a really cool SuperCard project from Fourth World
> called "peeker" that demos using a graphic to magnify whatever is under it
> in the window.
> 
> Is that thing yours, Richard?

Not mine.  As much as I've enjoyed SC over the years, my work these days is
so committed to multi-platform deployment that I rarely get a chance to use
SC anymore.

> Anyway, I'd like to implement something like it in Rev.
> 
> Any ideas...?

What does it do?

-- 
 Richard Gaskin 
 Fourth World Media Corporation
 Developer of WebMerge 2.2: Publish any database on any site
 ___
 [EMAIL PROTECTED]   http://www.FourthWorld.com
 Tel: 323-225-3717   AIM: FourthWorldInc

___
use-revolution mailing list
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution

Re: Magnifier

[Dar Scott]

On Thursday, July 17, 2003, at 08:17 PM, Ken Norris wrote:

 I recently looked over a really cool SuperCard project from Fourth 
World
called "peeker" that demos using a graphic to magnify whatever is 
under it
in the window.

Anyway, I'd like to implement something like it in Rev.
I've made some crude things for looking closely at part of a stack, but 
that part has to be visible.  I don't know how to do that with a 
magnifying glass in front, but if you are willing for the magnification 
to be someplace else, then I'd use snapshot.

Dar Scott

___
use-revolution mailing list
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution

Re: Rev 2.02/New pricing

[Mark Talluto]

My problem with crediting a particular authoring tool/language is that 
it gives your clients the feeling that they are relying on two 
companies instead of the one they contracted to do a job.  If you are 
doing contract work, closing credits to another company will ruin a job 
opportunity.  The solution is that those people who are developing 
projects for pay should be able to afford the enterprise solution.  
This credit problem does not exist with the enterprise solution.

The software business offers many advantages to other forms of 
business.  We can have a store front (web site) for a lot less than 
conventional stores.  We can work at home and not have the expense of a 
leased building.  We can work on older computers till we can buy 
better.  We can buy a totally cross-platform development tool that 
allows a single person to compete against a team of 5 proficient C or 
Java programmers.  We can do a lot for a start-up, with minimal capital.

Those who are just trying to break into this business are going to get 
the cheapest version of Rev they can afford.  If they ever expect to 
get out of this vicious circle, they really need to buy the enterprise 
solution.  They will have to bite the bullet and put their small 
capital investment in that solution.  To me, it is the only solution 
Rev offers (with its new structure).  To put it bluntly, if you plan on 
making money, you *must* buy the enterprise solution.  Single platform 
development will not cut it.  Buying two cheaper solutions is not a 
complete solution.

The real question is:  What markets is RunRev targeting?  We have and 
always have had a pro solution.  I think RunRev is really trying to 
find its way with small businesses (if there is such a thing regarding 
this type of product) and hobbyists.  My thinking is that if you plan 
on making money, pay the extra few hundred and get enterprised.  If the 
extra 500 bucks or whatever is going to stop you from starting your 
business, you are already dead in the water.  The price of the 
enterprise version is so cheap for what you get.  Other businesses 
normally require you to invests tens if not hundreds of thousands to 
get started.  The only other business that would be cheaper to begin 
with is a lemonade stand.

At this point, I only see two clear markets.  People making money at 
developing and people doing it for every other reason.  I think rev 
should toss out the Studio version and meet the two markets that are 
easily identifiable.

Market #1
Self employed:  buy enterprise
Working day to day for a company that uses your development skills:  
Company buys enterprise for you to use
Software start-ups: buy enterprise

Market #2
Individual contemplating software development: get demo or buy express 
version.  They know the limitations and will live by them.  When they 
are sure they want to do this, they buy enterprise solution.
Individual programming for fun or home use:  buy express solution.  
Closing screen will not kill them for the price they paid.

If you disagree or think I have missed a market, I would love to hear 
about it.

Best regards,
Mark Talluto
http://www.canelasoftware.com
___
use-revolution mailing list
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution

RE: new users

[Edwin Gore]

Newbies,

I can't agree enough. I've found the list to be a very welcoming place (just don't 
include anyone's email in a response...). Though I do have lots of previous Hyper & 
Supercard experience, Revolution is still very new to me and I have found the people 
on the list to be very helpful, though their level of knowledge and experiance can be 
intimidating. My advice is just jump in and ask questions - don't worry about the 
level of the question you are asking. In fact, I love it when somebody asks an easy, 
beginner type question - those are the kind I can help out with!

Edwin Gore

>- --- Original Message --- -
>From: Stephen Messimer
>To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
>Sent: Fri, 18 Jul 2003 16:50:09
>
>Ryno and John,
>
>Well guys welcome to the list.  There are a lot of
>us older types here. 
>  While I am not quite as "advanced" as you, I am
>getting up there as 
>well.
>(55).  :-)
>
>I have been around on the list for some time now. 
>I have always gotten 
>great advice from others here and have asked my
>share of boneheaded 
>questions.  In every case the listas have been both
>understanding and 
>very generous with their remarks and advice.
>
>Don't be concerned about the fact that there are
>some really brilliant 
>programmers lurking around here.  They have been up
>the same path.  
>They just walked it before you.  The interesting
>thing about most of 
>them is that they are more than happy to help you
>with pretty much any 
>question you may have.
___
use-revolution mailing list
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution

splitting binary file into chunks

[Kurt Kaufman]

Does anyone have a suggestion as to the most efficient way to:
(1) Open a binary file (generally less than 100KB in size)
(2) look for specific byte-sequences in that file (using offset? -or is 
that just for text?)

(3) split the data into sections based on location of the 
byte-sequences in (2)

(4) decode the sections determined in (3) and place the (now text) data 
into fields

Perhaps the decoding should be done at the outset (i.e. before (2)).

Thank you,
Kurt
___
use-revolution mailing list
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution

Re: you - the potential buyer

[erik hansen]

--- Klaus Major <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

> I cannot but to encourage you to ask, ask, ask
> this list as much and as 
> basic questions as they appear...
> 
> Noone will point with the finger towards you
> and if someone does, ... baseball bats.
> 
> http://www.esashi.org/yabb/YaBB.pl

some "heavy hitters" have stepped up to
the plate on this newbie list.

as far as [EMAIL PROTECTED],
the list is very supportive of new people.

> Klaus Major
> [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> www.major-k.de

Major Klaus,

i have several URL's for your name.
is there a preferred one for RunRev purposes?




=
[EMAIL PROTECTED]http://www.erikhansen.org

__
Do you Yahoo!?
SBC Yahoo! DSL - Now only $29.95 per month!
http://sbc.yahoo.com
___
use-revolution mailing list
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution

Re: me - the potential buyer

[curry]

What has stopped me dead in my tracks is that I can't seem to learn the
program. As a newcomer, I can tell you that the online help system
stinks - not enough examples, not enough detail in the
vocabulary/syntax areas, and a vaporware manual. Try finding how to use
the debug feature of the program. This may sound silly to you
experienced folks, but I'm an intelligent and capable learner, really
working to learn the product, and it's a quagmire.
I'm not sure how much this will help, but here's a mix of what I did 
when I was new to Rev, and what I additional I would suggest now:

First, look through the Development Guide: About section of Help and 
read them through as you would a book chapter, also clicking on 
Transcript terms you want to know more about.

Then try the Recipes--a new feature which gives examples that I think 
will be really useful. Then you can see practically how some terms 
are used.

Finally, when you look up a Transcript term (the one you are looking 
for or another when you are still trying to find what you are looking 
for) always check what's in the See Also menu. That's what proved the 
most useful of all for me, even more than the development guide, to 
learn more of the language. You can also go through the Dictionary 
alphabetically sometimes and look for things that you still don't 
know and look useful--I did that now and then too.

Hope that helps,

Curry
___
use-revolution mailing list
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution

Re: splitting binary file into chunks

[erik hansen]

--- Kurt Kaufman <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Does anyone have a suggestion as to the most
> efficient way to:
> (1) Open a binary file (generally less than
> 100KB in size)
> 
> (2) look for specific byte-sequences in that
> file (using offset? -or is 
> that just for text?)
> 
> (3) split the data into sections based on
> location of the 
> byte-sequences in (2)
> 
> (4) decode the sections determined in (3) and
> place the (now text) data 
> into fields
> 
> Perhaps the decoding should be done at the
> outset (i.e. before (2)).

this "sounds" like a MIDI file.

=
[EMAIL PROTECTED]http://www.erikhansen.org

__
Do you Yahoo!?
SBC Yahoo! DSL - Now only $29.95 per month!
http://sbc.yahoo.com
___
use-revolution mailing list
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution

Re: splitting binary file into chunks

[Dar Scott]

On Friday, July 18, 2003, at 03:25 PM, Kurt Kaufman wrote:

(1) Open a binary file (generally less than 100KB in size)
put URL "binfile:myfile" into binaryData

(2) look for specific byte-sequences in that file (using offset? -or  
is that just for text?)
matchChunk()

I think you can use regex and offset on arbitrary stings.  Test for  
null problems.

(3) split the data into sections based on location of the  
byte-sequences in (2)
put char startChar to endChar into ...

(4) decode the sections determined in (3) and place the (now text)  
data into fields
binaryDecode()

Dar Scott

 

  Dar Scott Consultinghttp://www.swcp.com/dsc/Programming  
Services
 


___
use-revolution mailing list
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution

"Made with Rev" splash - for a "player", yes

[Barry Levine]

Essentially, I am already at the "Studio" level, I guess. The splash 
doesn't apply to my particular situation assuming I renew at the Studio 
level. However, I am still philisophically opposed to a splash "badge" 
appearing upon exiting a compiled app.

If RR wanted to distribute a "player" with which one could "run" an 
uncompiled, non-protected stack, I could argue on the side of placing a 
splash there. You could make small projects which could be examined by 
anyone (novice included). In this manner, RR's benefits could be seen 
by anyone who wanted to DL the player and whatever stacks are made 
available by anyone. Sort of "open source", so to speak, without giving 
away the crown jewels.

I am, however, extremely disappointed that I can't develop/compile any 
longer (apparently) on my PC as well as my Mac without spending an 
additional $400. Am I correct in assuming that whatever reg# I receive 
from RR will be platform specific?

Barry

___
use-revolution mailing list
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution

splitting binary file into chunks

[Kurt Kaufman]

Thanks, Dar.

I'm not familiar with "regex".  However, I originally figured "offset" 
would be particularly useful, as I have to search for each successive 
match from the point at which the last match was positioned in the file 
(now variable).  I can do this with offset's "charstoSkip" parameter, I 
think.  I hope offset can work with binary data, otherwise I guess it 
will have to be hex strings (my eyes glaze over at the thought).

-Kurt

PS/ Yes, it is MIDI data, Erik.

___
use-revolution mailing list
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution

Re: me - the potential buyer

[revolution]

>>
As a newcomer, I can tell you that the online help system 
stinks - not enough examples, not enough detail in the 
vocabulary/syntax areas, and a vaporware manual. Try finding how to use 
the debug feature of the program.
<<

John,

I agree with you about the debugger - it is hard to get your head round that at first. 
 But to state it quite bluntly - there are so many areas of IT that have less than 
adequate documentation, that I don't feel that Rev is by any means the worst offender. 
 I have looked at several other RAD tools in the past year, and they were all harder 
to grasp than Rev.

When I first started to use Rev last year I had no experience or knowledge of 
Hypercard.  I thought the tutorials in the online documentation were ok, but after 
doing them I felt that they had only begun as tutorials.  So, I bought Danny Goodman's 
books on Hypercard (which have always been well recommended), and the Winkler book on 
Hypertalk (Dan Winkler, Scott Kamins and Jeanne DeVoto).

After I finished both volumes of the Goodman book, I felt I had learnt a bit more.  
And maybe it was useful to get my head oriented around the idea of stacks.  However, 
the Winkler book on Hypertalk is very good.  If you are serious about learning 
Transcript I cannot recommend that book too highly.  There is a lot of useful 
information in it.  Ok, it is not Rev-specific -- it can't teach you the IDE etc.  But 
99% of what you learn about Hypertalk from that book you can carry over into Rev.  

If you live in the US then you can get a 2nd hand copy from Amazon for next to 
nothing... BUY IT, while you still can :-)  I'm glad I have a copy - I would often 
look at it if I'm puzzled by something and most of the time I didn't have to ask for 
help on the list.  If you have some familiarity with Hypercard, then the Goodman books 
may be a waste of time for you (I passed mine onto a friend who I introduced to Rev, 
and they did give her a bit more to work with).

And the Transcript dictionary is very complete, although you are right about the need 
for more examples, and more tutorials.  There is quite a gap between where the 
tutorials leave off and being able to find the right element in the dictionary.  BTW, 
do you know that you can search the documentation?

Also, you can search this list (and the metacard list).  So if you find a language 
element that you cannot figure out how to use properly, you can search the list for 
that term (or better, a phrase) and see if there is any discussion of it.  Here's the 
link: http://www.google.com/advanced_search?q=site:lists.runrev.com
A search on "message box" brought up 706 hits; "custom prop" brought up 51 hits.

(I'm a bit embarrassed to admit I actually spent a lot of time reading the archived 
lists that go back a few years... There, I've admitted it...

When I have asked for help, I've found this list to have some extremely charming and 
knowledgable people on it.  It is really quite a cosy place

Hope that helps,
Bernard  

___
use-revolution mailing list
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution

Re: splitting binary file into chunks

[Dar Scott]

On Friday, July 18, 2003, at 04:41 PM, Kurt Kaufman wrote:

I hope offset can work with binary data, otherwise I guess it will  
have to be hex strings (my eyes glaze over at the thought).
I would be very surprised if it didn't.  Don't forget to numToChar() or  
otherwise make sure you have binary data that you are searching for.

And since this is midi, you can use charToNum() instead of  
binaryDecode().  Use bitAnd() to mask off bits.

Dar Scott

 

  Dar Scott Consultinghttp://www.swcp.com/dsc/Programming  
Services
 


___
use-revolution mailing list
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution

FW: Rev 2.02/New pricing/Currency - Dollars Sterling Euro Yen

[Gary Rathbone]

> -Original Message-
> From: Gary Rathbone [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Sent: 18 July 2003 23:57
> To: '[EMAIL PROTECTED]'
> Subject: RE: Rev 2.02/New pricing/Currency - Dollars Sterling Euro Yen
> 
> I'm not 'upgrading' yet...I'll 'upgrade' when I need to...depending on the
> new features available...and after the bug fixes...and when the global
> currency markets dictate :-)
> 
> Can we please have options to pay in fixed prices and not have to
> translate US dollars according to current market trends?
> 
> It appears Rev users are highly and widely geographically diverse, and to
> find the purchase price from a Scottish company is solely based in USD is
> perhaps 'single minded', and not to everyone's taste.
> 
> Just my 2p.
> 
> Regards
> 
> Gary Rathbone BSc MBCS
> Chartered Information Systems Practitioner
> Leeds, UK



___
use-revolution mailing list
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution

Future Revolution Support...

[Gary Rathbone]

As Rev grows, and 'we' know we want a financially secure company behind our
development environment. (I've ridden the hypercard / Supercard
rollercoaster).then this will surely mean the user base will grow, perhaps
rapidly.

Many new user concerns/frustrations seem to concentrate on the lack of
documentation and learning materials, hence this list is the *primary*
source of support. Many new and 'old' users quite rightly praise this list
for the quality of information provided and the gifts that experienced Rev
developers provide. It seems this core of experienced Rev developers should
feature highly in RunRevs future plans.

Personally, it would provide huge 'peace of mind' regarding my investment in
Rev technology if these guru's were secured into RunRevs support program in
some announced 'formal' manner.

These experts have provided thankless support to thousands of wannabe's and
future Rev evangelists. Without them Rev wouldn't be what it is today, or
what it may become.

I'd support a pay-as-you-go guru list or other reliable service -
suggestions / comments ?.

Regards

Gary Rathbone BSc MBCS
Rev Wannabe !



___
use-revolution mailing list
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution

Re: Future Revolution Support...

[Richard Gaskin]

Gary Rathbone wrote:

> I'd support a pay-as-you-go guru list or other reliable service -
> suggestions / comments ?.

And I'd happily provide such a service with convenient online payment
options.

What sort of costs and commitments would do you think would be ideal?

-- 
 Richard Gaskin 
 Fourth World Media Corporation
 Developer of WebMerge 2.2: Publish any database on any site
 ___
 [EMAIL PROTECTED]   http://www.FourthWorld.com
 Tel: 323-225-3717   AIM: FourthWorldInc

___
use-revolution mailing list
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution

Re: Future Revolution Support...

[erik hansen]

--- Gary Rathbone <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
wrote:
> I'd support a pay-as-you-go guru list or other
> reliable service -
> suggestions / comments ?.

sounds fair.

Erik

=
[EMAIL PROTECTED]http://www.erikhansen.org

__
Do you Yahoo!?
SBC Yahoo! DSL - Now only $29.95 per month!
http://sbc.yahoo.com
___
use-revolution mailing list
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution

Script Editor Menu Reference not clickable

[Mark Powell]

When I try to access the docs for the Script Editor Menu Reference, the the
cursor does not turn to browse over the links.  For example, the "File menu
(Script Editor)" type links are not clickable.  Any way of remedying this?
Thanks.

Mark Powell
Production Manager
VERITAS Education
___
use-revolution mailing list
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution

Disappear script editors

[Mark Powell]

I am new to Revolution and am on Windows 2000.  When I switch from a Rev
script editor window or help window to the window of another application and
then return to Revolution, the window is always gone.  Can I adjust a
setting somewhere so that windows will stay put when I go in and out of
Revolution.  It is extremely annoying.

Mark Powell
Production Manager
VERITAS Education
___
use-revolution mailing list
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution

RE: Future Revolution Support...

[Gary Rathbone]

And one of the greatest guru's replies in record time...

Richard, 

To answer your question would be difficult. As ever, it depends. If I was
sat at a clients site and needed a 'quick' fix asap then it maybe near
priceless. However, messing around at home with a relatively minor annoyance
response time and cost would not be a factor.

As per my previous post Rev is now global. And I don't expect charity to
expand my development or financial prospects. 

A group support program of this kind would need careful thought and
planning...

Thanks

Gary Rathbone BSc MBCS


> > I'd support a pay-as-you-go guru list or other reliable service -
> > suggestions / comments ?.
> 
> And I'd happily provide such a service with convenient online payment
> options.
> 
> What sort of costs and commitments would do you think would be ideal?
> 
> --
>  Richard Gaskin
>  Fourth World Media Corporation
>  Developer of WebMerge 2.2: Publish any database on any site
>  ___
>  [EMAIL PROTECTED]   http://www.FourthWorld.com
>  Tel: 323-225-3717   AIM: FourthWorldInc
> 
> ___
> use-revolution mailing list
> [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution


___
use-revolution mailing list
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution

ANN: Amazon Assistant

[Edwin Gore]

Hey all,

After much work, and much sweat I have put out a beta version of Amazon
Assistant, a program I am working for use by members of Amazon's Associate
program. It's a desktop application that let's you create a database of
products that you want to offer either by manually typing data into the
database, entering partial information (ASIN, product name and a keyword, or
whatever), and click a button to retreive all the product details from
Amazon Web Services importing stuff exported from a database, or (thanks to
altBrowser) you can browse around Amazon and click "Add This Product", and
it will automatically add the product you are looking at to your catalog.

Overall, I think it's kind of cool.

It's very catalog/storefront oriented, but if any of you are members of the
Associate program I would appreciate any  feedback.

The beta (and all unregistered version) won't let you change the Associate
ID that is inserted (and the license agreement says that you won't change it
in the .html files it generate (yeah right)), but if you are willing to put
the effort into really testing it, I'll give you a freebie.

If you are interested, its at http://www.shinra.com/amazonassistant/

(And Heather...I'm upgrading to Studio from Educational next week...well
before this becomes commercial)

Edwin Gore

___
use-revolution mailing list
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution

building a font picker

[Alex Rice]

I'm building a font picker using a list field and htmlText. I have a 
checkbox to filter out non-fixed width fonts. My function for deciding 
if a font is fixed width is

--
-- isFixedWidthFont()
--
function isFixedWidthFont pFontFaceName
  if pFontFaceName = empty then
return "false"
  end if
  set the textFont of fld "fixedWidth1" to pFontFaceName
  set the textFont of fld "fixedWidth2" to pFontFaceName
  put the formattedWidth of fld "fixedWidth1" into twd1
  put the formattedWidth of fld "fixedWidth2" into twd2
  return (twd1 = twd2)
end isFixedWidthFont
fixedWidth1 has the lower-case alphabet and fixedWidth2 has the upper 
case alphabet.

1) Is there a way that's faster than this? If the user had lots of 
fonts on their system, it would take a bit to grind through them all.

2) On Mac OS X, this yields the list

#PCÌ¡ 12
Andale Mono 12
Courier 12
Courier CE 12
Courier New 12
Letter Gothic MT 12
Letter Gothic MT Bold 12
Letter Gothic MT Bold Oblique 12
Letter Gothic MT Oblique 12
Monaco 12
Monaco CE 12
OsakaÅ|ìôïù 12
VT100 12
Now- Courier, Courier New, Monaco, Andale Mono, and VT100 all were 
expected. I wasn't expecting Letter Gothic, but it does appear to be 
fixed width.

But what are the "CE" fonts?

Letter Gothic seems strange also: it has it's available styles listed 
in the font names list (bold, obl, bold/obl).

3) The "CE" fonts as well as Letter Gothic fonts do not scale when I 
change the point size in the htmlText of the field. What is different 
about these fonts?

Alex Rice, Software Developer
Architectural Research Consultants, Inc.
http://ARCplanning.com
___
use-revolution mailing list
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution

fonts in htmlText

[Alex Rice]

On Mac OS X 10.2.6/ Rev 2.0.1 I am putting all my fonts into htmlText, 
one font per paragraph. Mostly it looks great, but there are several 
fonts that are not rendering at all- they come through as Verdana or 
something. The problem ones are

American Typewriter
Andale Mono
Apple Chancery
Apple LiGothic
Apple LuSung
Big Caslon
Book Antiqua
Bookman Old Style
Brush Script MT
Century Gothic
Century Schoolbook
Comic Sans
Edwardian Script ITC
Fang Song
Gill Sans
Hoefler Text
Letter Gothic
Marker Felt
Monotype Sorts
New York
Trebuchet
Several other fonts have the correct face, but don't obey the size="" 
tag in htmlText.

Should I bug report all this?

Alex Rice, Software Developer
Architectural Research Consultants, Inc.
http://ARCplanning.com
___
use-revolution mailing list
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution

Re: building a font picker

[Dar Scott]

On Friday, July 18, 2003, at 07:35 PM, Alex Rice wrote:

But what are the "CE" fonts?
Russian?  They may have alternate symbols for high coding.

Dar Scott

___
use-revolution mailing list
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution

Re: Script Editor Menu Reference not clickable

[Howard Bornstein]

>When I try to access the docs for the Script Editor Menu Reference, the the
>cursor does not turn to browse over the links.  For example, the "File menu
>(Script Editor)" type links are not clickable. 

I concur. These links are not working.

Jeanne, this appears if you use the search plugin to do a search for 
"script editor". Among the results, the following two:

Script Editor Menu Reference
File menu (Script Editor)

do not link to anything.

Should I bugzilla this?

Howard Bornstein

D E S I G N  E Q
www.designeq.com
___
use-revolution mailing list
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution

Re: building a font picker

[Howard Bornstein]

>1) Is there a way that's faster than this? 

It might be a little faster to simply put "i" into field "fixedWidth1" 
and "Z" into fld "fixedWidth2" and compare them, rather than the entire 
alphabet.

Howard Bornstein

D E S I G N  E Q
www.designeq.com
___
use-revolution mailing list
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution

Re: building a font picker

[Howard Bornstein]

>1) Is there a way that's faster than this? If the user had lots of 
>fonts on their system, it would take a bit to grind through them all.

I set up a little test stack for this and used this script:

on mouseup
  put empty into fld "List"
  put the fontnames into fontlist
  put the ticks into t1
  lock screen
  repeat with i = 1 to number of lines in fontlist
put line i of fontlist into fontName
set the textFont of fld "F1" to fontName -- contains the letter "i"
set the textFont of fld "F2" to fontName -- contains the letter "Z"
put the formattedWidth of fld "F1" into fwd1
put the formattedWidth of fld "F2" into fwd2
if (fwd1 = fwd2) then put fontName &return after fld "List"
  end repeat

  put the ticks into t2
  put (t2-t1)/60&&"seconds"
end mouseup

On my system (iMac 500 Mz running OS 9.2.1 and Rev 2.01) it took .05 
seconds to generate a list of 18 monospaced fonts out of a font list of 
351 fonts. This is using my previous suggestion of comparing two letters 
rather than the entire alphabet.

The key to this speed, btw, is the lock screen command. You could 
probably get an additional significant increase on this by using the "for 
each" repeat structure. But it seems plenty fast even without this.

Regards,

Howard Bornstein

D E S I G N  E Q
www.designeq.com
___
use-revolution mailing list
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution