Re: Sockets Behind The Wall

[Andre Garzia]

On Jan 22, 2004, at 4:07 AM, Dar Scott wrote:

Though unusual, two computers on the same ethernet might not be on the 
same subnet.  There are a few ways this can cause trouble if this is 
the case.
thats just ugly... :-D Once I stod hours trying to solve a "simple 
netbios-samba problem" just to realize the subnets were wrong... 
sometimes I hate tcp/ip... and with ipv6 it just get us near the 
obfuscated address holly grail... jeez, I must sleep

--
Andre Alves Garzia  2004  BRAZIL
http://studio.soapdog.org
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Re: Sockets Behind The Wall

[Dar Scott]

On Wednesday, January 21, 2004, at 10:38 PM, Scott Rossi wrote:

It works fine when client and server stacks are on the same
system, but not when they're on separate local systems.
Anything else I can try?
Make sure you can ping your own address (not just 127.0.0.1) and the 
other address from the client and the server.

You can use netstat on OS X and Windows to look at the connections.  
You should be able to see the server listening even without a client.  
When a client is connected you should be able to see that on either 
machine (tcp).

If your system uses DHCP (or similar method) to assign addresses, they 
might change between boots.  Whoops!  I saw you said the addresses are 
router assigned.  Watch for this.

Some computers might have a personal firewall.

Though unusual, two computers on the same ethernet might not be on the 
same subnet.  There are a few ways this can cause trouble if this is 
the case.

If you have trouble with netstat or ping, holler.  Many on this list 
have used them.

Arg.  I need to read better.  I also saw, in looking back, that the 
client looks like it connects.  What platform(s)?  What Rev versions?  
Recent chat demo stack?  Are any of these computers very slow or 
virtual PCs?

Dar Scott

--

Dar Scott Consulting
http://www.swcp.com/dsc/
Programming Services

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Re: Sockets Behind The Wall

[Scott Rossi]

On 1/21/04 8:54 PM, "Dar Scott" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

>> Can some kind soul enlighten me as to what I'm doing wrong?
> 
> Sure!
> 
> Only, I'm not clear on your setup.
> 
> Is it this?
> 
> A.
> Internet -- Firewall -Client
>   |
>   Server
> 
> Or this?
> 
> B.
> Client  Internet -- Firewall -Server
> 
> 
> Or this?
> 
> C.
> Client  Firewall - Internet - Firewall Server
> 
> If it is A, your firewall (as firewall) should not be a problem.  Just
> point to the private address.

That's what I thought.  Your "A" diagram is the setup I'm testing on, so I
didn't think I needed to use any specially designated port.  But I still
can't seem to get anything happening.  The default port used in the script
is 1987, but I've also used 8080, neither of which seems to make a
difference.  It works fine when client and server stacks are on the same
system, but not when they're on separate local systems.

Anything else I can try?

Regards,

Scott Rossi
Creative Director
Tactile Media, Development & Design
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Re: Visible of stack is false - but still visible - why?

[Doug Lerner]

Never mind on this for now. The problem was due to a weird thing with
duplicate stacks somehow having the same name. I avoided the conflict and
the visibility problem went awa.

doug

On 1/22/04 2:21 PM, "Doug Lerner" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

> I can check and uncheck the Visible of a stack, but it remains visible.
> (Other stacks don't experience this problem.)
> 
> In the message window I can also do
> 
> set the visible of stack "thisStack" to true
> or
> set the visible of stack "thisStack" to false
> 
> and when I look at the Visible value in the stack inspector the value looks
> correct, like I set it.
> 
> But the stack remains visible regardless.
> 
> Any idea what might cause this behavior?
> 
> Thanks,
> 
> doug
> 
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Visible of stack is false - but still visible - why?

[Doug Lerner]

I can check and uncheck the Visible of a stack, but it remains visible.
(Other stacks don't experience this problem.)

In the message window I can also do

set the visible of stack "thisStack" to true
or
set the visible of stack "thisStack" to false

and when I look at the Visible value in the stack inspector the value looks
correct, like I set it.

But the stack remains visible regardless.

Any idea what might cause this behavior?

Thanks,

doug

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Re: Sockets Behind The Wall

[Dar Scott]

On Wednesday, January 21, 2004, at 06:16 PM, Scott Rossi wrote:

Can some kind soul enlighten me as to what I'm doing wrong?
Sure!

Only, I'm not clear on your setup.

Is it this?

A.
Internet -- Firewall -Client
   |
   Server
Or this?

B.
Client  Internet -- Firewall -Server
Or this?

C.
Client  Firewall - Internet - Firewall Server
If it is A, your firewall (as firewall) should not be a problem.  Just 
point to the private address.

If B or C, the client will need to point to the public address of that 
server for that service.

The firewall will use NAT (network address translation) to translate 
addresses (and ports).

One form is sometimes called masquerade; it represents to the Internet 
all private addresses behind the firewall as (typically) one address 
and ports are shuffled about to accommodate collisions.  This almost 
always applies to clients behind the firewall.

Servers are handled a couple ways.  One is a fixed NAT in which a 
public address is assigned to the whole port space of a computer.  An 
address on the outside is mapped directly to a private address.  
Another method is to assign a port on the public side of the server to 
a port on the private computer.  This keeps the public addresses down.

If the server is behind a firewall, it will normally be handled one of 
those two ways.  The simple SOHO routers usually make it easier for the 
latter.  This works well for an environment that uses masquerade, even 
for a computer supplying a service.  Because of the kinds of things I 
do for customers, I usually have the first.

At my lab, I mix all of the above methods.

So, depending on the situation, you may have to fiddle with the router.

Dar Scott



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Re: Sockets Behind The Wall

[Andre Garzia]

On Jan 21, 2004, at 11:16 PM, Scott Rossi wrote:

I'm trying to establish socket connections behind a router with 
firewall.
(I'm using the little chat demo that Tuviah put together some time 
ago.)  I
assumed I only needed the local (router assigned) addresses of each 
machine,
but either this is wrong or I'm doing something else wrong.

The demo works with both the server and client stacks on the same 
machine,
but when I move the client to another networked machine and point it 
at the
local address of the server stack's machine, nothing seems to happen.  
Ports
are the same, and both machines can see each other on the network.  
Opening
the socket returns empty as if it succeeded and the socket is listed 
in the
openSockets, but no message is returned from the socket upon opening.

Can some kind soul enlighten me as to what I'm doing wrong?

Thanks & Regards,
Scott,

Hell, I hate firewalls!!! :-D I was having similar problems here. First 
you need to check the ports, what port you're using and if this port is 
blocked or not. I'll tell you an ugly and bad solution, actually is not 
a solution, it's just a hack for you to know if the problem is your 
code or your firewall. You can:

A) Change the port you're connecting the stacks to port 80, almost no 
sane firewall will block port 80 for this is the port defined for HTTP 
transport (means web). This port should work, but this is evil for 
you're using a port defined to serve HTTP transport for custom stack 
transport... it's really ugly and against the specs we all love. But it 
should get across the firewall.  You can use this to try the stacks, 
them, if the problem is with the firewall, you must find some port that 
is not being blocked, try high ports like 8080 and the like.

B) You can opt not to use that evil hack above to test your stack, try 
using a high port or contact your sysadmin and ask him for a clear port 
for your usage, this is the peacefull and wise decision. Once you find 
our what port to use, everything will be haven.

You can them look for RevZeroconf external, this will enable your chat 
client to find it's friends across the network without caring for ports 
or ips... this is really handy.

Cheers
Andre
PS: I cannot be sued for the misuse of port 80! :-D



Scott Rossi
Creative Director
Tactile Media, Multimedia & Design
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http://studio.soapdog.org
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Re: close stack question

[Doug Lerner]

Thanks, I'll try that...

It was working in another place, but I won't worry about that right now...

doug

On 1/22/04 12:53 PM, "Thomas J McGrath III" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

> clone stack "wb"
> set the name of it to "wc"
> 
> set the mainstack of "wc" to "wb"
> 
> Simpler this way
> 
> Tom
> 
> On Jan 21, 2004, at 10:31 PM, Doug Lerner wrote:
> 
>> In the docs it says "The clone command places the name property of the
>> newly
>> created object in the it variable."
>> 
>> But if I
>> 
>> clone stack "wb"
>> 
>> and then log the value of "it", it is
>> 
>> stack "Copy of wb"
>> 
>> Why isn't it just
>> 
>> "Copy of wb"
>> 
>> ?
>> 
>> I am having trouble setting the name of the new stack to something else
>> afterwards and I think the extra "stack" is interfering somehow...
>> 
>> doug
>> 
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>> 
> 
> Macintosh PowerBook G-4 OSX 10.3.1, OS 9.2.2, 1.25 GHz, 512MB RAM, Rev
> 2.1.2
> 
> 
> Advanced Media Group
> Thomas J McGrath III€ 2003 €[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> 220 Drake Road, Bethel Park, PA 15102
> 
> 
> 
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Re: close stack question

[Richard Gaskin]

Doug Lerner wrote:

> In the docs it says "The clone command places the name property of the newly
> created object in the it variable."
> 
> But if I 
> 
> clone stack "wb"
> 
> and then log the value of "it", it is
> 
> stack "Copy of wb"
> 
> Why isn't it just
> 
> "Copy of wb"

Getting the name of object includes a complete reference, while the short
name includes only the name property.

I'm not sure why the original HyperTalk language established this
convention, but in this case it allows you to write generalized handlers for
objects without needing to know the object's type:

  create field
  set the width of it to 200

...as opposed to:

  create field
  set the width of field it to 200

-- 
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 Fourth World Media Corporation
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Re: close stack question

[Thomas J McGrath III]

clone stack "wb"
set the name of it to "wc"
set the mainstack of "wc" to "wb"

Simpler this way

Tom

On Jan 21, 2004, at 10:31 PM, Doug Lerner wrote:

In the docs it says "The clone command places the name property of the 
newly
created object in the it variable."

But if I

clone stack "wb"

and then log the value of "it", it is

stack "Copy of wb"

Why isn't it just

"Copy of wb"

?

I am having trouble setting the name of the new stack to something else
afterwards and I think the extra "stack" is interfering somehow...
doug

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Macintosh PowerBook G-4 OSX 10.3.1, OS 9.2.2, 1.25 GHz, 512MB RAM, Rev 
2.1.2

Advanced Media Group
Thomas J McGrath III• 2003 •  [EMAIL PROTECTED]
220 Drake Road, Bethel Park, PA 15102


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close stack question

[Doug Lerner]

In the docs it says "The clone command places the name property of the newly
created object in the it variable."

But if I 

clone stack "wb"

and then log the value of "it", it is

stack "Copy of wb"

Why isn't it just 

"Copy of wb"

?

I am having trouble setting the name of the new stack to something else
afterwards and I think the extra "stack" is interfering somehow...

doug

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dragDrop -- dragData("image")

[Kathy Jaqua]

I can dragDrop -- dragData("text") to a target from a
substack to a stack.

I would like to dragData["image"] from a substack or
palette and dragdrop it on a card. The image "Gold
SqHalf.png" is in the stack's image library

The following does not work:

on mouseDown
 set the dragData["image"] to "Gold SqHalf.png"
end mouseDown

on dragEnd 
 send "choose browse tool" to me in 1 tick
end dragEnd

Where do I put the following dragEnter and dragDrop
script (Which of course after working 2 days dose not
work either)?

on dragEnter
  set the acceptDrop to true
end dragEnter

on dragDrop
create image the dragData["image"]  
end dragDrop

I am, to say the least, having a problem with the
concept of creating an image on a card using an image
located in the stacks image library?
 
How can I correct the dragDrop message?

Kathy Graves Jaqua
A Wildest Dream Software
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ANN: Tribe: simple blog server (revHTTPd Framework quick demo)

[Andre Garzia]

Hi Folks,

this is Andre Alves Garzia of Soap Dog Studios speaking, I made a 
little demo to show simple web serving using revHTTPd framework. This 
is a little blog application, you may add/modify/remove blog posts and 
modify your site template.

You can see that everything is packed inside the "default_html"  
handler of the mainstack. All the httpd server is inside the HTTPd 
button... this should be hidden in a enduser app but since you're all 
developer, I left it plain visible.

This stack is provided as a public domain demo of the framework, you 
might inspect it and fiddle with it the way you like. This is just a 
simple dynamic serving demo, nothing fancy. We could use the framework 
to handle it all automatically using our Inform Engine and stuff, but 
we choose to do it all by hand so that you know how things work.

The stack code is better than me explaining. Allow me just to explaing 
it a little.

When you try to access the stack it receive a "default_html" message, 
this will loop thru your posts and replace the defined tags in the 
template, then it will flush it back to the browser.

Fiddle with it and send your feedback to me at [EMAIL PROTECTED]

I packed the source code + standalones for Windows, Linux, MacOS

You can get Tribe.zip from http://public.soapdog.org

Cheers
Andre Alves Garzia
Soap Dog Studio - BRAZIL
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Re: Password Field

[Jim Carwardine]

I have an idea for this application...

I created 2 identical fields.  I placed field 2 exactly on top of field 1
and locked field 2.  I put this script in field 2 (the top field)...

on mouseUp
  select line 1 of field 1
end mouseUp

on mouseDown
  put empty into me
  put empty into field 1
end mouseDown

Then I put this script on field 1...

on keyDown
  put "*" after line 1 of field 2
  pass keyDown
end keyDown

You can then lock everything down and a user would need a can opener to see
the password... Jim

on 1/21/04 9:26 AM, Rob Cozens wrote:

>> Well, I ended up taking a different tack on the password field
>> thing.  Although the solutions given will work in most cases I
>> decided to go the route of setting the foreground, background and
>> hilite color of my password field to white then disallowing the
>> "copy" function (Cmd-C, Ctrl-C) so that no one can select the
>> entered text, copy it to the clipboard then paste it into something
>> else in order to obtain the password.  In the end this ended up
>> being easier than trying to (1) figure out all the possible ways
>> someone can "get" the password and (2) ensure that whatever someone
>> does with the mouse or keyboard, the entered password is correct
>> (i.e. what if they use the mouse to select some of the "dots" in the
>> field and remove them ... it was just getting too complicated).
> 
> Hi Brian,
> 
> I got into this thread a little late, so forgive me if this has been
> addressed.
> 
> The general approach to passwords is via an ask password dialog box
> instead of a field.  The ask password command takes care of all the
> details you are struggling with when trying to replicate a password
> dialog in a field.
> 
> As part of this approach, the password is never unencrypted:  Sys
> Admin creates a password via the ask password dialog, hides the
> result in the application, and tells the user what keys to press when
> responding to ask password.  Password verification involves comparing
> the user's response to ask password with the encrypted response
> stored in the application.
> 
> Note that the user input is never derived by unencrypting the ask
> password response.
> 
> So I ask:
> 
> 1.  Is it necessary that the password be entered in a field instead
> of via the ask password dialog?
> 
> 2.  Is there a reason why you need to know what keys the user pressed
> (eg: the user is entering "secure" data instead of a predefined
> password)?
> 
> If you answer both questions in the negative, I suggest you look at
> ask password syntax.

-- 

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Sockets Behind The Wall

[Scott Rossi]

I'm trying to establish socket connections behind a router with firewall.
(I'm using the little chat demo that Tuviah put together some time ago.)  I
assumed I only needed the local (router assigned) addresses of each machine,
but either this is wrong or I'm doing something else wrong.

The demo works with both the server and client stacks on the same machine,
but when I move the client to another networked machine and point it at the
local address of the server stack's machine, nothing seems to happen.  Ports
are the same, and both machines can see each other on the network.  Opening
the socket returns empty as if it succeeded and the socket is listed in the
openSockets, but no message is returned from the socket upon opening.

Can some kind soul enlighten me as to what I'm doing wrong?

Thanks & Regards,

Scott Rossi
Creative Director
Tactile Media, Multimedia & Design
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Re: Burning Desire stack - "shell" command problem

[Alex Rice]

On Jan 21, 2004, at 3:52 PM, Barry Levine wrote:

I have a button with the following script:

on mouseUp
  shell (field "theImageToCreate")
end mouseUp
When the script executes, I get an error. Here's the error dialog info:
The examples in the Transcript Dictionary are misleading because shell 
is a function not a command! so you can't ignore the return value. Try 
this instead:

get shell(field "theImageToCreate")

--
Alex Rice | Mindlube Software | http://mindlube.com






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Re: Porting from MacOSX to Windows

[Graham Samuel]

On Wed, 21 Jan 2004 21:50:16 +, Frank Leahy <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
[...]
My questions are this:
1. Has anyone ported their product to Windows, and is there an FAQ
somewhere that lists all the little gotchas?
2. How does one debug both a Mac and Windows version if you only have a
Mac license?  I can't imagine shelling out another $299 for the Windows
version (or $700 for the Enterprise version) just so I can do final
debugging and testing.  As it is currently, one has to rebuild the app
over and over again to debug it, which sounds like a recipe for banging
my head on the keyboard in the next month or so.
Finally, has anyone at Revolution considered allowing licensed users of
one version the ability to use the other versions, but only for
development purposes?  For example, stacks could be edited and saved,
but one couldn't build an application on the non-primary-platform
version.
Don't know a FAQ, although there is help buried in the docs. No 
substitute for trying it out IMHO - I mean testing on all platforms 
you plan to deploy to (this includes not only MacOS 9.x and OSX but 
also several flavours of Windows). In fact I did start my own journey 
with Revolution by recreating something I'd developed for Mac only 
(using SuperCard), and it was not particularly tough making it work 
in Windows - and now I consider myself to be primarily a Revolution 
developer, I swap platforms all the time (only PC and Mac, as I have 
no Unix users) and don't really think of a particular platform being 
the 'native' or 'superior' one. It helps that I work in two 
locations, one where the PC is the best machine, the other where it's 
a Mac.

I'm sorry but if you're serious about cross-platform development I 
think you have to go Enterprise. The price made me suck my teeth too, 
but somehow I got used to it. I just hope this year's revenue will 
justify next year's licence fee...

Graham

--
---
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Linux standalones?

[Doug Lerner]

I can't get my Linux standalone to even open up (Redhat 9.0). The app I
created works fine in OS X, OS 9 and Windows.

Any special Linux issues I should know about?

doug

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Re: ReportsPro

[Robert Brenstein]

 >>Hypercard to Rev Question ... Does Revolution have this capability?

Lots of us are in this boat and, unfortunately, it looks like 
Reports DataPro will not be coming over

Well, Frank Leahy <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> posted today to RevSupport list:

Does anyone from RunRev read this list?  If so, I'm good friends 
with the guy who bought the rights to Reports and ReportsPro and he 
would LOVE to talk to someone at RunRev about making it work with 
Revolution.  Please reply directly to me and I'll pass on your info 
to him.
Robert Brenstein
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Re: ReportsPro

[HyperChris]

>>Hypercard to Rev Question ... Does Revolution have this capability? 

Lots of us are in this boat and, unfortunately, it looks like Reports DataPro will not 
be coming over

I can offer you this, however 
An alternative that some of us are pursuing (thanks to Bobby at ieEntertainment) is to 
use RichTextFormat (RTF) docs for the layout, custom tags for placing the data, and 
then our own engines to pump out RTF formatted reports.

To be more specific ...
 generate a layout in Word
 make up a tag system/language for where you want your data placed
 save this 'layout' as RTF
 when generating a report, Rev opens the layout
 your engine substitutes the data in for the tags
 save the document with an output name (it's still RTF)
 pop it open in Word for the user to preview/modify/print

Obviously this is more work on our part then slapping together a few fields and 
hitting save. However, it has a lot of potential. It gives the user editable output 
which is something one usually has to do with PDFs and the full version of Acrobat. 
Microsoft, in true Microsoft fashion, has also "embraced and extended" the RTF format 
substantially such that within the Word product you can do quite a bit of formatting 
and RTF will retain it.

That's just the tip of the iceberg, of course. Good luck !
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Re: List etiquette suggestion

[Mark Wieder]

Frank-

One thing that would help is if people adhered to the RFC-standard
signature trimmer of -- (That's dash-dash-space) on a line by itself.
Most modern email clients will trim everything after that
automatically when replying.

-- 
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 [EMAIL PROTECTED]

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Re: Porting from MacOSX to Windows

[Richard Gaskin]

Chipp Walters wrote:

>> 1) my .jpg file code was picking up the ._xxx.jpg versions that get
>> created when copying jpg files from Mac to Windows and displaying them
>> with empty images, and
> 
> I think that's a Mac issue, not a Windows issue. Windows will look for any
> file ending in .jpg when you filter for .jpg

It's an OS X issue, and it's annoying.  Whenever you copy files from OS X to
a Win volume it copies these metadata files.  I hope it can be turned off
but I haven't discovered how.

I usually build installers on Win so it doesn't affect my build process as
much as it just clutters my work space.

-- 
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Re: Burning Desire stack - "shell" command problem

[Sarah Reichelt]

Remove the space between "shell" and the first bracket. I ran into the 
same sort of problem a couple of days ago and that was what fixed it.

Cheers,
Sarah
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
http://www.troz.net/Rev/
On 22 Jan 2004, at 8:55 am, Barry Levine wrote:

I have a field named "theImageToCreate" containing the following text:

hdiutil create -fs HFS+ -volname MyDisk -size 100m 
~/Desktop/MyDiskImage2.dmg

I have a button with the following script:

on mouseUp
  shell (field "theImageToCreate")
end mouseUp
When the script executes, I get an error. Here's the error dialog info:

TypeHandler: can't find handler
Object  Create disk image file
Lineshell (field "theImageToCreate")
Hintshell
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Re: ReportsPro [was] Hypercard to Rev Question

[Richard Gaskin]

Robert Brenstein wrote:

> I see no problem with owners of the code checking into porting, even
> if it means that (at least initially) they work on Mac only.
> Developing sth equivalent to ReportsPro will take time and effort. I
> suspect that the main issue is that Reports' externals are of type 2
> not 1, so it may be possible to move the type 2 stuff into a control
> stack. But I am like a blind man talking about colors :)

I certinly have no objection, but it would seem likely to cost as much to
update the Mac-only version (OS X is a _very_ different animal than Classic)
as it would to just rewrite it in Transcript, and a Mac-only version have a
much smaller audience (most folks choose Rev for its multi-platform
capabilities).

-- 
 Richard Gaskin 
 Fourth World Media Corporation
 Developer of WebMerge: Publish any database on any Web site
 ___
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re: Burning Desire stack - stupid syntax error (mine)

[Barry Levine]

$$$**%&^

shell (field "whatever")

should be

put shell (field "whatever")

That sound like it?

Barry

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Re: Burning Desire stack - "shell" command problem

[Dar Scott]

On Wednesday, January 21, 2004, at 03:52 PM, Barry Levine wrote:

I have a field named "theImageToCreate" containing the following text:

hdiutil create -fs HFS+ -volname MyDisk -size 100m 
~/Desktop/MyDiskImage2.dmg
Try the full path for hdiutil.

Dar Scott

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Burning Desire stack - "shell" command problem

[Barry Levine]

I have a field named "theImageToCreate" containing the following text:

hdiutil create -fs HFS+ -volname MyDisk -size 100m 
~/Desktop/MyDiskImage2.dmg

I have a button with the following script:

on mouseUp
  shell (field "theImageToCreate")
end mouseUp
When the script executes, I get an error. Here's the error dialog info:

TypeHandler: can't find handler
Object  Create disk image file
Lineshell (field "theImageToCreate")
Hintshell
However, when I copy the text in the field and paste it into a Terminal 
window (and then hit "enter"), the command executes and the Terminal 
window even gives me a verbose feedback.

I thought it might be because I had not set the "shellCommand" property 
but that doesn't seem to be the case. I've tried altering the script 
to:

shell (line 1 of field "theImageToCreate")

...but that results in the same error.

Any assistance would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks,
Barry
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Re: closeStackRequest Issue.

[Sarah Reichelt]

Hi Dave,

What happens if you use "quit" here instead of "close this stack"?
Also, as a human interface thing, I would recommend quitting on mouseUp 
rather than mouseDown. This gives people the option to change their 
mind before releasing the mouse.

Cheers,
Sarah
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
http://www.troz.net/Rev/
On 21 Jan 2004, at 10:36 pm, Dave Cope wrote:

Hi,

I am trapping the closeStackRequest message to allow a user to 
discard/save
pending edits. This works fine when I close the stack using the close 
button
of the stack window. I have a button control on the card whose handler 
is
simply;

on mouseDown
close this stack
end mouseDown
The above handler closes the stack regardless and to my mind does not 
trigger
the closeStackRequest. I'd be grateful for any clues. Thanks.

Kind Regards,
--
Dave Cope, Data & Systems Admin.
Biodiversity Information Service for Powys and Brecon Beacons National 
Park.
Gwasanaeth Gwybodaeth Fioamrywiaeth Powys A Pharc Cenedlaethol Bannau
Brycheiniog.

EMail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Web: http://www.b-i-s.org
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Re: ReportsPro [was] Hypercard to Rev Question

[Robert Brenstein]

On Wednesday, January 21, 2004, at 02:32  PM, Richard Gaskin wrote:

Frank Leahy wrote:

Does anyone from RunRev read this list?  If so, I'm good friends with
the guy who bought the rights to Reports and ReportsPro and he would
LOVE to talk to someone at RunRev about making it work with Revolution.
Please reply directly to me and I'll pass on your info to him.
I believe RunRev folks check this list as time permits, but on this specific
issue you're coming in late:
When this was suggested here several months ago, after discussing all the
parameters it became clear that the cost of porting the Mac-68k-specific
ReportsPro code to the 12 platforms Rev supports with all the necessary
sources (stacks or databases) would far exceed the cost of writing such an
engine natively in Transcript.
There's been talk of one of the list members working on a reporting tool in
Rev, so hopefully there will be something for us soon.
--
 Richard Gaskin
 Fourth World Media Corporation
 ___
 [EMAIL PROTECTED]   http://www.FourthWorld.com


I see no problem with owners of the code checking into porting, even 
if it means that (at least initially) they work on Mac only. 
Developing sth equivalent to ReportsPro will take time and effort. I 
suspect that the main issue is that Reports' externals are of type 2 
not 1, so it may be possible to move the type 2 stuff into a control 
stack. But I am like a blind man talking about colors :)

Robert
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RE: Porting from MacOSX to Windows

[Chipp Walters]

Hi Frank,

> 1) my .jpg file code was picking up the ._xxx.jpg versions that get
> created when copying jpg files from Mac to Windows and displaying them
> with empty images, and

I think that's a Mac issue, not a Windows issue. Windows will look for any
file ending in .jpg when you filter for .jpg

>
> 2) popup menus don't work when the menu button is invisible on Windows
> (even though it works fine on the Mac), and

Didn't know that, I always keep my menu buttons way off screen on Windows...

>
> 3) there are all sorts of little visual anomalies between the two
> versions (button sizing, placement, etc.)

Use profiles to manage this. See the Property Profiles Tutorial...


> 2. How does one debug both a Mac and Windows version if you only have a
> Mac license?  I can't imagine shelling out another $299 for the Windows
> version (or $700 for the Enterprise version) just so I can do final
> debugging and testing.  As it is currently, one has to rebuild the app
> over and over again to debug it, which sounds like a recipe for banging
> my head on the keyboard in the next month or so.

Frankly, the idea is that if you wish to port your code cross-platform, then
either

1) you purchase the license for the platform you wish to deliver on or;
2) you purchase the Enterprise version.
3) you purchase Revolution Express for Windows only $149, but you can't make
standalones.

The only other cross-platform development tool I know of which compares to
RunRev is TrollTech QT and they charge over $5000 for a Enterprise
Mac/Win/Linux coding tool. So, it seems to me RunRev is a bargain :-)


>
> Finally, has anyone at Revolution considered allowing licensed users of
> one version the ability to use the other versions, but only for
> development purposes?  For example, stacks could be edited and saved,
> but one couldn't build an application on the non-primary-platform
> version.

See Revolution Express

-Chipp


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Read from process time requirement

[Bojsza]

I have a process that runs until it is user terminated. It produces 
anywhere from 1 line to 1000's of lines of data per second -- streaming 
data. What I am trying to figure out is how to read from the process 
and put it into a field without losing any data.

The "read from process" does not support "for" time function. And since 
the data is variable none of the associated options will work.

I thought of a repeat loop but the "read from process" still requires 
parameters that cause errors if they are not met.

Is there a way to have Revolution ignore or not report errors?

Any thoughts (I am trying to do this via an external but that seems to 
be a long learning process).

Glen

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Re: [OT] Poetry (was Re: Height/width limit on groups?)

[Björnke von Gierke]

don't forget my contributions to the mug/shirt contest a year ago:

on humanLife
  do Birth
  get URL "binfile:Spouse"
  put Love into it
  set the showLines of me to true
end humanLife
on drink
  do fill me
  repeat until me is 0
subtract one from me
add one to the target
  end repeat
end drink
on second tough, these are neither poetic, nor do they execute without 
error... maybe I should not have mentioned them ;-)

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Re: revXMLPutIntoXMLNode - How do I create CDATA?

[Terry Judd]

--- Terry Judd <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
Dear revXML gurus - so - I use the revPutIntoXMLNode
command to put
some text between a pair of tags, but how do I
specify that I want it
to be CDATA? If the original xml includes CDATA and
I write to that
node it becomes plain text.
Cheers,

Terry...

Hi Terry,

I haven't actually tested this, but you could try the
'revAppendXML' command for this purpose.
Jan Schenkel.
Thanks Jan - I was using revAppendXML to append some 'template' xml 
and then revPutIntoXMLNode to populate it. Seems like I'll have to 
append the xml a node at a time if I want to add it as CDATA. 
urlEncode(ing) the data will suffice for internal purposes but I want 
to be able to export the xml with CDATA at some stage.

Cheers,

Terry...

--
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Biomedical Multimedia Unit
Faculty of Medicine, Dentistry & Health Sciences
The University of Melbourne
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Re: ReportsPro [was] Hypercard to Rev Question

[Cal Campbell]

On Wednesday, January 21, 2004, at 02:32  PM, Richard Gaskin wrote:

Frank Leahy wrote:

Does anyone from RunRev read this list?  If so, I'm good friends with
the guy who bought the rights to Reports and ReportsPro and he would
LOVE to talk to someone at RunRev about making it work with 
Revolution.
Please reply directly to me and I'll pass on your info to him.
I believe RunRev folks check this list as time permits, but on this 
specific
issue you're coming in late:

When this was suggested here several months ago, after discussing all 
the
parameters it became clear that the cost of porting the 
Mac-68k-specific
ReportsPro code to the 12 platforms Rev supports with all the necessary
sources (stacks or databases) would far exceed the cost of writing 
such an
engine natively in Transcript.
I do hope that will take good look at what ReportsPro designed,  It was 
very well thought out.


There's been talk of one of the list members working on a reporting 
tool in
Rev, so hopefully there will be something for us soon.

--
 Richard Gaskin
 Fourth World Media Corporation
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Calvin Campbell
Castle Rock, CO
www/d4bp.com/

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Re: ReportsPro [was] Hypercard to Rev Question

[Cal Campbell]

Man!  Would I like that.  I would have a dozen customers for him if it 
works.

On Wednesday, January 21, 2004, at 02:19  PM, Frank Leahy wrote:

Does anyone from RunRev read this list?  If so, I'm good friends with 
the guy who bought the rights to Reports and ReportsPro and he would 
LOVE to talk to someone at RunRev about making it work with 
Revolution.  Please reply directly to me and I'll pass on your info to 
him.

Thanks,
-- Frank Leahy
On Wednesday, January 21, 2004, at 08:53 PM, 
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

The bad news is Rev. has nothing even remotely like Reports. Indeed, 
Rev.
reporting is almost nonexistent. People will probably reply to this 
post saying
how Rev. reports are as good as HC internal reports; many of these 
folks have
never used the 9 to 5 Reports. But I know what you are saying; 
nothing, on any
platform, or any database, is a powerful, fast and flexible as 
Reports.
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Calvin Campbell
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www/d4bp.com/

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Re: [OT] Poetry (was Re: Height/width limit on groups?)

[Kjetil Rå Hauge]

Someone tried to organise a poetry contest on the 
HyperCard list way back in the last century 
(1999). I've dug up my  posting from then:

"For one who mainly uses HyperCards to move words around and who refers to
Option-Shift as the _enjambement_ character, this HyperTalk poetry contest
came as an interesting challenge. With no experience in actually creating
poetry, but some as a translator, I decided to try to translate one of the
most translated poems in world literature, Johann Wolfgang von Goethe's
"Wandrers Nachtlied", into native HyperTalk, using HyperCard's inner poetic
world to its full extent and avoiding as much as possible such vulgar
interferences from English and the so-called "real world" as quoted
literals.
on nightSong
  --   Ueber allen Gipfeln
  --   Ist Ruh,
  repeat with peak = 1 to the number of backgrounds
set the script of  background peak to peace
  end repeat
  --   In allen Wipfeln
  --   Spuerest du
  --   Kaum einen Hauch
  repeat with treetop = 1 to the number of cards
if breathOfWind is in treetop then exit nightSong
  end repeat
  --   Die Voegelein schweigen im Walde,
  play "birdsong"
  wait until the sound is done
  --   Warte nur, balde
  wait 60 ticks
  --   Ruhest du auch!
  put 60 into soon
  put the ticks into now
  if the ticks is now + soon then send suspendstack to me
end nightSong
For my next translation I am considering Rudyard Kipling's "If ... end if"."
--
--- Kjetil Rå Hauge, U. of Oslo. Tel. +47/22856710, fax +47/22854140
--- (this msg sent from home, +47/67148424, fax +1/5084372444)
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RE: Chipp's alphatest (2)

[Chipp Walters]

Thanks for all of you who helped with the alphaTest. Currently, I received
11 comments that it *didn't* work in OSX and 2 comments where it did work in
OSX (and 2 comments where it worked in OS9).

So, I'm still trying to figure out why it would work sometime and not
others:-(
I'll keep the list posted if I figure it out.

best,

Chipp

> -Original Message-
> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Behalf Of J. Landman
> Gay
> Sent: Wednesday, January 21, 2004 1:07 PM
> To: How to use Revolution
> Subject: Re: Chipp's alphatest (2)
>
>
> On 1/21/04 5:40 AM, Graham Samuel wrote:
>
> > I tried the test on MacOS 10.2.8 (Jaguar). It didn't work (the
> turquoise
> > rectangle behind the right hand button didn't change).
>
> It worked fine on my copy of Jaguar 10.2.8. Wonder if it is
> machine-specific.
>
> --
> Jacqueline Landman Gay | [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> HyperActive Software   | http://www.hyperactivesw.com
>
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Re: custom tab buttons

[Thomas J McGrath III]

Although Tabs traditionally do not have pictures in them, it would be 
nice to have that ability.
They are buttons but don't let you have icons like buttons.

I think it is a good feature request.

Tom

On Jan 21, 2004, at 10:04 AM, Chris Sheffield wrote:

That would be a nice feature.  But I think I would prefer to to at 
least be
able to set the icons of the tabs in a tab control, much like you do 
for a
regular button.  I find it kind of odd that you can't.  Is this a good 
idea
for a feature request, or am I just off in left field?

Chris Sheffield
Software Development
Read Naturally
-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Thomas J
McGrath III
Sent: Tuesday, January 20, 2004 3:47 PM
To: How to use Revolution
Subject: Re: custom tab buttons
It is too bad we can't use the imageSource to change a char in a button
name to a graphic in the button name... It is just text after all just
like a field.
Tom

On Jan 20, 2004, at 11:47 AM, Chris Sheffield wrote:

Thanks, Bob.  I already have ButtonGadget.  And I agree, it's an
awesome
tool!  But what I need to know is how to get my button graphics into a
tab
control.  Any ideas on that?
Chris Sheffield
Software Development
Read Naturally


-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Bob
Hartley
Sent: Tuesday, January 20, 2004 9:30 AM
To: How to use Revolution
Subject: Re: custom tab buttons
At 15:22 20/01/2004, you wrote:
Does anyone have a good example of how to create a custom tab control
with custom button graphics?  I know I've seen this before, but I
can't figure out how to do it.  Maybe it's just faked?
If you go to altuit.com and buy Button Gadget (I did and it is a great
application) you can get the pro version.
This if I remember correctly has a built-in rev converter.



I know Chipp Walters has done this in some of his apps.  So Chipp, if
you're reading this, can you share how you do that?
I'd save all the hastle and buy the app. It is cheap.


Thanks,

Chris Sheffield
Software Development
Read Naturally


Cheers
Bob

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Macintosh PowerBook G-4 OSX 10.3.1, OS 9.2.2, 1.25 GHz, 512MB RAM, Rev
2.1.2
Advanced Media Group
Thomas J McGrath III• 2003 •  [EMAIL PROTECTED]
220 Drake Road, Bethel Park, PA 15102


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Macintosh PowerBook G-4 OSX 10.3.1, OS 9.2.2, 1.25 GHz, 512MB RAM, Rev 
2.1.2

Advanced Media Group
Thomas J McGrath III• 2003 •  [EMAIL PROTECTED]
220 Drake Road, Bethel Park, PA 15102




Macintosh PowerBook G-4 OSX 10.3.1, OS 9.2.2, 1.25 GHz, 512MB RAM, Rev 
2.1.2

Advanced Media Group
Thomas J McGrath III• 2003 •  [EMAIL PROTECTED]
220 Drake Road, Bethel Park, PA 15102
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Re: [OT] Poetry (was Re: Height/width limit on groups?)

[Mark Brownell]

OK, here's mine:

on mouseUp
  global spaz
  put 1 into spaz
  someDays
end mouseUp
on someDays
  global spaz
  if spaz < 6 then
answer "Some days my life just seems to go around in circles" with 
"OK"
  else
answer "Are you sick of this yet?" with "Yes"
  end if
  if it = "Yes" then exit someDays
  add 1 to spaz
  doThis
end someDays

on doThis
  global spaz
  answer "Do This" with "Yes Dear"
  add 1 to spaz
  doThat
end doThis
on doThat
  global spaz
  answer "Do That" with "Yes Dear"
  add 1 to spaz
  someDays
end doThat
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Re: [OT] Poetry (was Re: Height/width limit on groups?)

[Mark Brownell]

   Dar Scott wrote:

on rising, on sitting, on reading matt1344

Dar Scott
nice!

mb

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Re: Hypercard to Rev Question

[SimPLsol]

Calvin,
The good news is that it is generally easy to convert HyperCard stacks to 
Revolution stacks; there are a few more reserved words and some minor syntax 
issues but nothing really hard (probably the hardest thing is the new way of 
handling menus). If your experience is the same as mine (HC user since 1987) you 
will find Rev. exasperating at the beginning (because that is not how we always 
did it) and then you will find Rev. so much better that going back to HC would 
be like reliving the '50s.
The bad news is Rev. has nothing even remotely like Reports. Indeed, Rev. 
reporting is almost nonexistent. People will probably reply to this post saying 
how Rev. reports are as good as HC internal reports; many of these folks have 
never used the 9 to 5 Reports. But I know what you are saying; nothing, on any 
platform, or any database, is a powerful, fast and flexible as Reports.
Paul Looney
Simple Solutions
San Dimas, California
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Re: Chipp's alphatest (2)

[J. Landman Gay]

On 1/21/04 5:40 AM, Graham Samuel wrote:

I tried the test on MacOS 10.2.8 (Jaguar). It didn't work (the turquoise 
rectangle behind the right hand button didn't change). 
It worked fine on my copy of Jaguar 10.2.8. Wonder if it is 
machine-specific.

--
Jacqueline Landman Gay | [EMAIL PROTECTED]
HyperActive Software   | http://www.hyperactivesw.com
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Re: [OT] Poetry (was Re: Height/width limit on groups?)

[J. Landman Gay]

On 1/21/04 3:57 AM, Phil Jimmieson wrote:

So, anyone up for writing some Transcript poetry? :-)
I wrote this years and years ago:

on theAnswerToEverything
  put "Why do I keep wasting time" \
  & "striving for a script in rhyme?" \
  into query
  wait 2 ticks
  put "'Cause you're stupid" into x
  get word 1 of "What's my line" && \
  word 1 of "the summertime" && \
  word 4 of "what do you mean" && \
  word 1 of "life is a dream."
  put "i" & "n" & "g" & " of" \
  after word 3 of it -- above
  put 6 * 7 into reckoned
  answer it
  wait one second
  put "You can run this script all day."
  answer reckoned with "Okay"
end theAnswerToEverything
--
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HyperActive Software   | http://www.hyperactivesw.com
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Hypercard to Rev Question

[Cal Campbell]

I have an extensive Hypercard database I would like to move to another 
environment.  It make extensive use of ReportsPro which is a third 
party report writer.  I have several clients who are used to used 
ReportsPro to design their own reports and queries. Does Revolution 
have this capability?

Calvin Campbell
Castle Rock, CO
www/d4bp.com/

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Re: [OT] Poetry (was Re: Height/width limit on groups?)

[Dar Scott]

On Wednesday, January 21, 2004, at 02:57 AM, Phil Jimmieson wrote:

So, anyone up for writing some Transcript poetry? :-)
on rising
  put the wheat of the field without into barns
  put harvest before any item of desire
  put barns before houses
  find the first line of the stacks and quickly
  put it into barns
  set the hands of today to tomorrow
  if the long time is weary then set eyes of today to tomarrow
end rising
on sitting
  replace weariness with joy and laughter in evenings
  add love to laughter
  find food and friends and Fido
  add contentment to love
  move sleeping relative (brother or sister, wife or husband) without 
waiting
  add prayers to contentment
  go to bed
end sitting

on reading matt1344
  if the kingdom of heaven is likened then
find the treasure of field nearby
hide it
if it is the first item in desires then get it
if it is precious and the joy of me is true then send it to me
put the price of land before them
put the price of it
put the price of it
put the son of me before them
  end if
end reading
Dar Scott

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Groups: why do some controls group separately but not together with other ones.

[Erik Lips]

Thanks for help.

I had to do with the Select Grouped Controls.
Have to get used to these things  just a starter with Rev. :-)
Erik.

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Re: Password Field

[Brian Maher]

Hi Dar,
 
>I'd also look carefully at what might cause color changes.

Yes, that is something I am keeping in the back of my mind for the future.  For right 
now this will be an OS X only application so using white works perfectly.

Thanks, Brian

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Re: Another newbie Mac Question...

[Richard Gaskin]

Ray G. Miller wrote:

 With OS X Apple no longer requires file type assignments, posing a problem
 for us.  I'm not sure Apple has yet decided what to do about either file
 types or creator codes for the long term, so I'm not familiar with a
 workaround for selecting files that rely only on file name extension on OS
 X.
 
 Anyone come across a current Apple tech note on this?  Last I heard Apple
 required developers to write a custom filterProc for Nav Services (ugh!).

>>> It does appear that using the answer file with type "PNGf" works for .PNG
>>> files
>> 
>> Here (OS X 10.2.8) it only works for files which have the appropriate type
>> assigned as Finder metadata.  If I get one from the Internet so no Finder
>> data is attached it is not selectable with either syntax, filter or type.
>> 
>> So the conundrum remains:  How do we expect Rev the write a custom
>> filterProc which will handle all possible Finder type code/file name
>> extension combinations?
>>
> Yep, and it's the same when Macaroons try to open a MC/Rev stack with the
> creatorType stripped...
> 
> I have a "Converter" stack which allows the scripter to quickly convert a
> "text" file to the MC/Rev stack or whatever... without having to remember
> which button key and keyboard keys to hold down... ;-)
> 
> 
> It's called "Convert Text File To MC/Rev stack or Whatever Else File". or
> CTFTMVREVSOWEF for short.
> 
> I can send it to you for distribution...

Pop it in RevNet for the quickest distribution.

Sure would be nice if Apple would provide backward compatibility with their
own conventions.  This monkey business of making developers write custom
filter-procs evidences a bizarre organizational process there.


NOTE TO LIST MANAGER:

The reply-to address is set to:

  "[EMAIL PROTECTED], How to use Revolution"
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]>

(I modified Ray's address to prevent it from being picked up by spambots,
but you get the idea)

A similar change has found its way into the MC list as well.  In some cases
it makes the reply-to address invalid, and in all cases less
readable/useful. Can this be fixed?

-- 
 Richard Gaskin 
 Fourth World Media Corporation
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Re: closeStackRequest Issue

[FlexibleLearning]

Dave:

>I am trapping the closeStackRequest message to allow a user to discard/save
>pending edits. This works fine when I close the stack using the close button
>of the stack window. I have a button control on the card whose handler
>is simply;
>
>on mouseDown
>   close this stack
>end mouseDown
>
>The above handler closes the stack regardless and to my mind does not trigger
>the closeStackRequest. I'd be grateful for any clues. Thanks.

closeStackRequest is triggered when the closeBox is clicked, so you need to 
trap both events...

on closeStack
  checkSave
end closeStack

on closeStackRequest
  checkSave
  pass closeStackRequest
end closeStackRequest

on checkSave
  ... do your stuff here
end checkSave

/H
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Re: Password Field

[Dar Scott]

On Wednesday, January 21, 2004, at 05:40 AM, Brian Maher wrote:

Although the solutions given will work in most cases I decided to go 
the route of setting the foreground, background and hilite color of my 
password field to white then disallowing the "copy" function (Cmd-C, 
Ctrl-C) so that no one can select the entered text, copy it to the 
clipboard then paste it into something else in order to obtain the 
password.
I'd also look carefully at what might cause color changes.

I wonder if imageSource could be useful here.

Dar Scott

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Re: [OT] Poetry (was Re: Height/width limit on groups?)

[Klaus Major]

Hi Phil,

...
if the dog 8 my homework then
   change my grade
end if
Which kind of brings to mind those people who write poetry in the perl 
programming language.
One quick Google later and I found this fab example at 
http://perlmonks.thepen.com/Perl%20Poetry.html :

formline BY, $the_confessional;
pack "IN", $the_box;
bless $me, Father for @I_have_sinned;
time - $last_confession >  20 * 365 * 24 * 60 * 60;
my $father; $I, seek YOUR, $wisdom, $guidance and $support;
$I, sin and $wonder if exists $god{"in heaven"}, each %day;
$I, link "chains across the", exit; @the_orphanage;
$I, pop @children's_balloons for $fun;
$I, do { sleep $around };
$I, push @nuns, $with_a_broom;
$I, read MY_NEIGHBOR'S, $mail, 1 or 30, times, each %month;
$I, import and exp$ort, $illegal_goods;
$oh and local $police_are_looking for @me;
cos $I, kill$ed, $my_mother_in_law;
; tell ME_WHAT_SHOULD_I_DO;
my $son;
eval $your_situation and study $the_bible while $I, $the_police->();
, $Ummm ... wait while $I, split;
exit, $the_confessional;
join "the", @circus;
LOL :-D

BTW, what the heck does this script actually do?
Nothing probably?
So, anyone up for writing some Transcript poetry? :-)
OK, ok, i never can resist :-)
And somebody has to start anyway...
Here is my first try, cheap and quick...
(...like the drinks in my example...)
##
local sparemoney
on havefunornot
  put "50 Euro" into sparemoney
  ## The Euro is very strong in the moment!
  ## Read: more booze for the money 8-)
  go "Twilight Bar"
  repeat until sparemoney = "0 Euro"
getadrink("cheap")
add 100 to alcoholpromille
  end repeat
  go "Home"
  get "AlkaSeltzer"
  find "Bed" ## ;-)
  repeat until alcoholpromille = 0
get "sleep"
subtract 100 from alcoholpromille
  end repeat
end havefunornot
on getadrink expensiveness
  switch expensiveness
  case "cheap" ##coke, spa, beer and stuff...
subtract 2 from word 1 of sparemoney
break
  case "moderate" ## cheap booze...
subtract 5 from word 1 of sparemoney
break
  case "expensive" ## quality booze ;-)
subtract 10 from word 1 of sparemoney
break
  case "too late" ## champaign and loose (wo-)men ;-)
subtract 50 from word 1 of sparemoney
## Don't try this with the ridiculous 50 Euro...
break
  end switch
end getadrink
#
Tested and works :-D

Please note the variations in "getadrink" ;-)

Regards

Klaus Major
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
www.major-k.de
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Re: Groups: why do some controls group separately but not together with other ones.

[Dar Scott]

On Wednesday, January 21, 2004, at 09:21 AM, Richard Gaskin wrote:

When I select all controls on a card (Select All), they won't group 
using
the Group Selected function.
...
Could the controls in question already belong to a group?
There is a button called Select Grouped Controls.  Could this be the 
culprit?  This is probably useful for alignment, but usually it just 
gets in the way.  I often find it on and I don't know how it got that 
way.

Dar Scott

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Re: Groups: why do some controls group separately but not together with other ones.

[Richard Gaskin]

Erik Lips wrote:

> When I select all controls on a card (Select All), they won't group using
> the Group Selected function.
> There's just a couple of controls in the top left hand corner of the card
> that will not group with the other ones.
> I can group this couple of controls separately however, but I cannot group
> them together with all other controls on the card.
> 
> What could be the reason for this behaviour?
> Any advice on this is highly appreciated.

Could the controls in question already belong to a group?

-- 
 Richard Gaskin 
 Fourth World Media Corporation
 Developer of WebMerge: Publish any database on any Web site
 ___
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Groups: why do some controls group separately but not together with other ones.

[Erik Lips]

Hi,

When I select all controls on a card (Select All), they won't group using 
the Group Selected function.
There's just a couple of controls in the top left hand corner of the card 
that will not group with the other ones.
I can group this couple of controls separately however, but I cannot group 
them together with all other controls on the card.

What could be the reason for this behaviour?
Any advice on this is highly appreciated.
Erik.

WinXP Rev. v 2.1.2

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Re: rev unicode still crap?

[Dave Cragg]

At 6:07 pm +0900 21/1/04, mark wrote:
After beating my head on the wall in the past, I decided to return
to this issue.  However, as far as I can tell, the unicode and
uniEncode capability of rev is still crap.  I attempted to convert
an old stack into unicode... very simple script:
create field
put uniEncode(field "oldshiftJis",Japanese) into last field
set the textFont of last field to "osaka,japanese"
The new fields made in this way display the japanese text just fine.
But if you attempt to edit them, you go into endless beachball spin
and have to force-quit rev. Again and again
This is rev 2.02 on mac OS10.2.  I would purchase the update to rev
2.1x if the unicode handling were not still crap in that.  Anyone
know if it was improved between these versions? Boy do I pine for
the ease of Hypercard's Japanese ability!


In 2.02 on OS X 10, the following allowed me to edit the text in 
field 2. (The original text in field 1 was shift-jis.)

   put uniEncode(field 1,Japanese) into t1
   set the unicodeText of field 2 to t1
   set the textFont of field 2 to "osaka,japanese"
Dave
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RE: custom tab buttons

[Chris Sheffield]

That would be a nice feature.  But I think I would prefer to to at least be
able to set the icons of the tabs in a tab control, much like you do for a
regular button.  I find it kind of odd that you can't.  Is this a good idea
for a feature request, or am I just off in left field?

Chris Sheffield
Software Development
Read Naturally


-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Thomas J
McGrath III
Sent: Tuesday, January 20, 2004 3:47 PM
To: How to use Revolution
Subject: Re: custom tab buttons


It is too bad we can't use the imageSource to change a char in a button 
name to a graphic in the button name... It is just text after all just 
like a field.

Tom

On Jan 20, 2004, at 11:47 AM, Chris Sheffield wrote:

> Thanks, Bob.  I already have ButtonGadget.  And I agree, it's an
> awesome
> tool!  But what I need to know is how to get my button graphics into a 
> tab
> control.  Any ideas on that?
>
> Chris Sheffield
> Software Development
> Read Naturally
>
>
>
>
> -Original Message-
> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Bob
> Hartley
> Sent: Tuesday, January 20, 2004 9:30 AM
> To: How to use Revolution
> Subject: Re: custom tab buttons
>
>
> At 15:22 20/01/2004, you wrote:
>> Does anyone have a good example of how to create a custom tab control 
>> with custom button graphics?  I know I've seen this before, but I 
>> can't figure out how to do it.  Maybe it's just faked?
>
> If you go to altuit.com and buy Button Gadget (I did and it is a great
> application) you can get the pro version.
>
> This if I remember correctly has a built-in rev converter.
>
>
>
>> I know Chipp Walters has done this in some of his apps.  So Chipp, if 
>> you're reading this, can you share how you do that?
>
> I'd save all the hastle and buy the app. It is cheap.
>
>
>> Thanks,
>>
>> Chris Sheffield
>> Software Development
>> Read Naturally
>
>
> Cheers
> Bob
>
>
>> ---
>> Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.
>> Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).
>> Version: 6.0.561 / Virus Database: 353 - Release Date: 1/13/2004
>>
>>
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>

Macintosh PowerBook G-4 OSX 10.3.1, OS 9.2.2, 1.25 GHz, 512MB RAM, Rev 
2.1.2


Advanced Media Group
Thomas J McGrath III• 2003 •[EMAIL PROTECTED]
220 Drake Road, Bethel Park, PA 15102



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Re: Password Field

[Brian Maher]

Hi Rob,

This is part of a normal application login (i.e. enter user name & password) rather 
than asking for a password to open a stack or something.  It seemed very unintuitive 
to the users to have to bring up two separate dialog boxes (one for user name and 
another for password).
 
>1.  Is it necessary that the password be entered in a field instead 
>of via the ask password dialog?

Yes (see above).

>2.  Is there a reason why you need to know what keys the user pressed 
>(eg: the user is entering "secure" data instead of a predefined 
>password)?

I don't need to know what keys the user pressed.  I need to keep someone from swiping 
the password when the user is not looking (i.e. copy and paste).  My initial thought 
was to do a password by internally tracking what they typed (i.e. the plain text) and 
putting some character (dots, asterisk, etc) on the screen so that if the user typed 
in the password and had to leave their desk for some emergency no one could come up, 
do a select all, copy, paste scenario and walk off with the password.  The initial 
responses that helped with that work ok but don't really handle all of the things a 
user could possibly do within the field (backspace, select all & delete, select some & 
delete, select some & change, etc).

The best solution was to simply make the contents of what the user is typing into the 
field invisible and disable the ability to copy the data out of the field.

Thanks, Brian

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Re: Password Field

[Rob Cozens]

Well, I ended up taking a different tack on the password field 
thing.  Although the solutions given will work in most cases I 
decided to go the route of setting the foreground, background and 
hilite color of my password field to white then disallowing the 
"copy" function (Cmd-C, Ctrl-C) so that no one can select the 
entered text, copy it to the clipboard then paste it into something 
else in order to obtain the password.  In the end this ended up 
being easier than trying to (1) figure out all the possible ways 
someone can "get" the password and (2) ensure that whatever someone 
does with the mouse or keyboard, the entered password is correct 
(i.e. what if they use the mouse to select some of the "dots" in the 
field and remove them ... it was just getting too complicated).
Hi Brian,

I got into this thread a little late, so forgive me if this has been addressed.

The general approach to passwords is via an ask password dialog box 
instead of a field.  The ask password command takes care of all the 
details you are struggling with when trying to replicate a password 
dialog in a field.

As part of this approach, the password is never unencrypted:  Sys 
Admin creates a password via the ask password dialog, hides the 
result in the application, and tells the user what keys to press when 
responding to ask password.  Password verification involves comparing 
the user's response to ask password with the encrypted response 
stored in the application.

Note that the user input is never derived by unencrypting the ask 
password response.

So I ask:

1.  Is it necessary that the password be entered in a field instead 
of via the ask password dialog?

2.  Is there a reason why you need to know what keys the user pressed 
(eg: the user is entering "secure" data instead of a predefined 
password)?

If you answer both questions in the negative, I suggest you look at 
ask password syntax.
--

Rob Cozens
CCW, Serendipity Software Company
http://www.oenolog.net/who.htm
"And I, which was two fooles, do so grow three;
Who are a little wise, the best fooles bee."
from "The Triple Foole" by John Donne (1572-1631)
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Re: rev unicode still crap?

[Doug Lerner]

No wonder I have been having trouble with all my Japanese field editing
attempts!

doug

On 1/21/04 10:05 PM, "ron barber" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

> Hi Mark
> 
> RR is still not there concerning unicode in general and Japanese in
> particular. We are waiting in confidence that Tuviah and others will
> come through with everything promised by v2.5. However, there was a bug
> fixed with uniencode/decode in 2.1.2. I suggest you download the trial
> and try it.
> 
> Ron
> 
> On Jan 21, 2004, at 6:07 PM, mark wrote:
> 
>> After beating my head on the wall in the past, I decided to return to
>> this issue.  However, as far as I can tell, the unicode and uniEncode
>> capability of rev is still crap.  I attempted to convert an old stack
>> into unicode... very simple script:
>> 
>> create field
>> put uniEncode(field "oldshiftJis",Japanese) into last field
>> set the textFont of last field to "osaka,japanese"
>> 
>> The new fields made in this way display the japanese text just fine.
>> But if you attempt to edit them, you go into endless beachball spin
>> and have to force-quit rev. Again and again
>> 
>> This is rev 2.02 on mac OS10.2.  I would purchase the update to rev
>> 2.1x if the unicode handling were not still crap in that.  Anyone know
>> if it was improved between these versions? Boy do I pine for the ease
>> of Hypercard's Japanese ability!
>> 
>> mark mitchell
>> japan
>> 
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>> 
> 
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Re: rev unicode still crap?

[ron barber]

Hi Mark

RR is still not there concerning unicode in general and Japanese in 
particular. We are waiting in confidence that Tuviah and others will 
come through with everything promised by v2.5. However, there was a bug 
fixed with uniencode/decode in 2.1.2. I suggest you download the trial 
and try it.

Ron

On Jan 21, 2004, at 6:07 PM, mark wrote:

After beating my head on the wall in the past, I decided to return to 
this issue.  However, as far as I can tell, the unicode and uniEncode 
capability of rev is still crap.  I attempted to convert an old stack 
into unicode... very simple script:

create field
put uniEncode(field "oldshiftJis",Japanese) into last field
set the textFont of last field to "osaka,japanese"
The new fields made in this way display the japanese text just fine.  
But if you attempt to edit them, you go into endless beachball spin 
and have to force-quit rev. Again and again

This is rev 2.02 on mac OS10.2.  I would purchase the update to rev 
2.1x if the unicode handling were not still crap in that.  Anyone know 
if it was improved between these versions? Boy do I pine for the ease 
of Hypercard's Japanese ability!

mark mitchell
japan
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Re: Password Field

[Brian Maher]

Hi Folks,

Well, I ended up taking a different tack on the password field thing.  Although the 
solutions given will work in most cases I decided to go the route of setting the 
foreground, background and hilite color of my password field to white then disallowing 
the "copy" function (Cmd-C, Ctrl-C) so that no one can select the entered text, copy 
it to the clipboard then paste it into something else in order to obtain the password. 
 In the end this ended up being easier than trying to (1) figure out all the possible 
ways someone can "get" the password and (2) ensure that whatever someone does with the 
mouse or keyboard, the entered password is correct (i.e. what if they use the mouse to 
select some of the "dots" in the field and remove them ... it was just getting too 
complicated).

Thanks, Brian

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closeStackRequest Issue.

[Dave Cope]

Hi,

I am trapping the closeStackRequest message to allow a user to discard/save 
pending edits. This works fine when I close the stack using the close button 
of the stack window. I have a button control on the card whose handler is 
simply;

on mouseDown
close this stack
end mouseDown

The above handler closes the stack regardless and to my mind does not trigger 
the closeStackRequest. I'd be grateful for any clues. Thanks.

Kind Regards,
-- 
Dave Cope, Data & Systems Admin.

Biodiversity Information Service for Powys and Brecon Beacons National Park.
Gwasanaeth Gwybodaeth Fioamrywiaeth Powys A Pharc Cenedlaethol Bannau 
Brycheiniog.

EMail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Web: http://www.b-i-s.org

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Re: Chipp's alphatest (2)

[Graham Samuel]

I tried the test on MacOS 10.2.8 (Jaguar). It didn't work (the 
turquoise rectangle behind the right hand button didn't change). I 
noted that the AlphaData of the button was non-empty (didn't try to 
look at the contents). Since it's a button rather than an image, I 
don't know what that's supposed to mean (the TD suggests that only 
images can have AlphaData), but it may be of interest.

HTH

Graham
--
---
 Graham Samuel / The Living Fossil Co. / UK & France
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Re: Chipp's alphatest

[Graham Samuel]

Chipp, I tried to send you this personally, but it bounced**, so for info:

Your test works fine on MacOS 9.2.2. I will try it on a pre-panther OSX
(10.2.8) shortly and email you again.
HTH

Graham
===
**  - for Chipp's info, part of the bounce message. Looks like your 
ISP doesn't like something about my ISP, but I'm not sure

Your message

  To:  [EMAIL PROTECTED]
  Subject: Your alphatest.rev
  Sent:Wed, 21 Jan 2004 09:40:42 -
did not reach the following recipient(s):

[EMAIL PROTECTED] on Wed, 21 Jan 2004 09:41:13 -
There was a SMTP communication problem with the recipient's email
server.  Please contact your system administrator.

Reporting-MTA: dns; ECOWV05M.Telewest.Internal

Final-Recipient: RFC822; [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Action: failed
Status: 5.5.0
X-Supplementary-Info: 
--
---
 Graham Samuel / The Living Fossil Co. / UK & France
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RE: How to list tables in an SQL database

[Roger Kingston]

Thanks again Jan, I very much appreciate your in-depth knowledge of the
secrets of Rev!

My tests, which I performed on ODBC connections both local (MS Access)
and over the Internet (MS SQL), show that the revdb_tablenames()
function does exist (i.e. no error message when called), but the
response is always empty.  This is strange, because I can manipulate the
connected databases very successfully with all the other revdb funtions
and commands, so I'm not sure what is going wrong here.  I tried the
exact example you mailed me and the response was empty.  Perhaps this is
why the function isn't documented, maybe it's not properly supported?

The only other clue I have is that when using the Automatic DB Query
form, it too fails to list the database tables.  Could it be connected
with something in my local setup or do others experience the same
problem?

Regards

Roger Kingston



Hi Roger,

Indeed I was referring to an automatic query from the
Query Builder.
If you're not using that, you could try the
'revdb_tablenames' function ; unfortunately that
didn't get an entry in the docs either.
So assuming tConnectionID is the ID of a connection to
your database, try this :
--
  put revdb_tablenames(tConnectionID) into tTables
  answer tTables
--

Hope this helped,

Jan Schenkel.

=
"As we grow older, we grow both wiser and more foolish at the same
time."  (La Rochefoucauld)

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[OT] Poetry (was Re: Height/width limit on groups?)

[Phil Jimmieson]

On Tuesday, January 20, 2004, at 03:31  PM, Thomas J McGrath III wrote:

My scripts when I know no one will see them are more like
put as(mygrs, mygrp, 2233) into mydd1
which is just awful..
What are some good topics to associate with scripting of this nature?
with Rev's very cool object style you could stash a bunch of 
functions that could allow you to make calls that actually do 
something useful but sound completely off the wall. I love this 
stuff too. I burnt all the free brain cells for today otherwise I'd 
slap something together.

imagine this:

if the dog 8 my homework then
   change my grade
end if
Which kind of brings to mind those people who write poetry in the 
perl programming language. One quick Google later and I found this 
fab example at http://perlmonks.thepen.com/Perl%20Poetry.html :

formline BY, $the_confessional;
pack "IN", $the_box;
bless $me, Father for @I_have_sinned;
time - $last_confession >  20 * 365 * 24 * 60 * 60;
my $father; $I, seek YOUR, $wisdom, $guidance and $support;
$I, sin and $wonder if exists $god{"in heaven"}, each %day;
$I, link "chains across the", exit; @the_orphanage;
$I, pop @children's_balloons for $fun;
$I, do { sleep $around };
$I, push @nuns, $with_a_broom;
$I, read MY_NEIGHBOR'S, $mail, 1 or 30, times, each %month;
$I, import and exp$ort, $illegal_goods;
$oh and local $police_are_looking for @me;
cos $I, kill$ed, $my_mother_in_law;
; tell ME_WHAT_SHOULD_I_DO;
my $son;
eval $your_situation and study $the_bible while $I, $the_police->();
, $Ummm ... wait while $I, split;
exit, $the_confessional;
join "the", @circus;
So, anyone up for writing some Transcript poetry? :-)

--
Phil Jimmieson  [EMAIL PROTECTED]  (UK) 0151 794 3689  (Mobile) 07976 983164
Computer Science Dept., Liverpool University, Chadwick Building, Peach Street
Liverpool L69 7ZF  http://www.csc.liv.ac.uk/~phil/
  I used to sit on a special medical board... ...but now I use this ointment.
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rev unicode still crap?

[mark]

After beating my head on the wall in the past, I decided to return to 
this issue.  However, as far as I can tell, the unicode and uniEncode 
capability of rev is still crap.  I attempted to convert an old stack 
into unicode... very simple script:

create field
put uniEncode(field "oldshiftJis",Japanese) into last field
set the textFont of last field to "osaka,japanese"
The new fields made in this way display the japanese text just fine.  
But if you attempt to edit them, you go into endless beachball spin and 
have to force-quit rev. Again and again

This is rev 2.02 on mac OS10.2.  I would purchase the update to rev 
2.1x if the unicode handling were not still crap in that.  Anyone know 
if it was improved between these versions? Boy do I pine for the ease 
of Hypercard's Japanese ability!

mark mitchell
japan
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Re: Challenge for a Rev/Unix Mac expert

[Alex Rice]

On Jan 20, 2004, at 9:58 PM, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

I mailed a posting a few days ago about a problem I was having with 
Revolution when launching a unix command-line application with the 
shell() command.  The problem I'm having is that the first time this 
particular unix call is invoked, it requires the Mac OS X 
authentification popup to display, which causes Revolution to hang for 
some reason.
A gnarly problem you've got here. If your installer software can launch 
PPPSetup then I would just go with that.

I don't think it's the authentication itself that is causing Rev to 
hang. There are other problems here. (Even after authentication is 
done, the PPPSetup command hangs for me.)

PPPSetup launches a second instance of itself [1] as a subprocess- 
which apparently confuses Rev and it thinks that it has to wait for all 
processes to complete. (or maybe something weird with TTYs or signals)?

In Terminal, PPPSetup returns immediately, or waits for authentication, 
depending whether authentication has been done. Just an observation 
about it's varying behavior in behavior in normal conditions.

In Rev shell, PPPSetup always hangs no matter whether authentication 
has been done.

In applescript with the "do shell script ..." version of this command 
ALSO hangs no matter whether authentication has been done.

In Terminal I can background PPPSetup with job control & no problems.

In Rev shell I cannot background PPPSetup with job control & (even by 
writing a separate /bin/sh script to do it).

In applescript I cannot background PPPSetup with job control &

[1] I think PPPSetup is spawning other processes because I keep ending 
up with these long running processes "./PPPSetup" when the process I 
started was named "./PPPSetup m username password 7035551212" and had 
already ended.

# ps ax  | grep PPP
  535  ??  S  0:00.07 ./PPPSetup
--
Alex Rice | Mindlube Software | http://mindlube.com
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