runrev2web (learning from the toolbook experience)

2007-10-25 Thread [EMAIL PROTECTED]


Hello all,

some experiences from the toolbook scene to the posting of Andre Garcia and 
others concerning runrev2web: I came from toolbook (xtalk for windows only) to 
runrev where this happened some years ago.
Toolbook long ago splitted in two directions: traditional ui development in 
openscript (xtalk dialect) and web development,
with a template approach (you can define a book=stack as native or as DHTML and 
use predefined template books = stacks for webcourses) which can be converted 
automatically.
For a DHTML book you can use elements out of a catalogue (I understood Andre in 
this direction) which work both in toolbook native (called Actions Editor AE 
with a subset of javascript within toolbook) AND converted in HTML  (after a 
phase using java which was stopped) mostly for educational courses and 
instruction.

The consequences were in my opinion the splitting of the toolbook community in 
web authors using toolbook as template engine for making educational courses 
which look almost the same native and on the web, and the traditional users 
like me who made measurement programs and multimedia with toolbook. And the 
development of the application toolbook became slower and slower, only the 
DHTML approach was pushed  und just this year after some years of lament a 
32bit version has been published!

From this historical experiences I would say: In my opinion metacard/runrev 
has included all mechanisms for making a template approach to bring object 
functionality even to the web when writing converters and generators.
There is a metacard-stack on the web which converts the ui into an xml-dump and 
restores from the xml building a new stack. In this direction I would see the 
best solution. One can program php or perl (server side)  or javascript (client 
side) for some extended objects and put it into custom properties in the runrev 
stack or better in a runrev library stack which during the conversion to web 
would replace the runrev transcript.

There even is the possibility to write generators who build the objects of a 
stack for different contexts (native,web,x3d as I did in my last project) and I 
would prefer if the community would define standards to use in library stacks 
for interoperability instead of forcing runrev to go into a direction I saw in 
the toolbook scene some years ago and do not want to suffer again.

My approach would look like this:

function newobject(button,Open,web)

function newobject objecttype,name,context
if context = native then
   if objecttype = button
   create button name
   -- or better: clone button button1 of card protoobjects 
   -- with all functionality built in you need for this button
   set the topleft of button name to ...

   end if -- better of course condition ...
...
return objectid -- for addressing of the created object in runrev
end if

if context = web then
   if objecttype = button
  
   put the buttonwebtemplate of this stack into template
   replace $buttonname with name in template
   put template after the HTMLcode of this stack
   put the buttonphpfunctionalitytemplate of this stack into exportfile ...
   end if -- better of course condition ...
...
return objectid -- for usage and addressing in css
end if
if context = x3d then
   if objecttype = button
  
   put the buttonx3dtemplate of this stack into template
   replace $buttonname with name in template
   replace DEF $objectid with DEF name ... in template
   replace $3dposition with x y z in template ...
   put template after the x3dcode of this stack
   end if -- better of course condition ...
...
return objectid -- for usage in javascript for x3d
end if

end


and if someone likes to fake the modern point-notation just do:

get newobject (stack.card.button,Franz,native)
get newobject (document.form1.button,Send,web)
get newobject (x3d.backgroundgroup.inline,christmastree,x3d)


Regards
Mit freundlichen Grüßen
Franz Böhmisch

[EMAIL PROTECTED]
http://www.animabit.de
GF Animabit Multimedia Software GmbH
Am Sonnenhang 22
D-94136 Thyrnau
Tel +49 (0)8501-8538
Fax +49 (0)8501-8537



To: use-revolution@lists.runrev.com
Cc: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
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Re: Revolution 2.9 DP-2 Release Date? (Unable to launch Revolution under OpenSUSE 10.3)

2007-10-25 Thread Luis
Erm, if the problem prevents it from launching, how is he going to  
'Check for Updates'?...


Cheers,

Luis.


On 24 Oct 2007, at 21:27, Björnke von Gierke wrote:


On 24 Oct 2007, at 21:47, Derek Bump wrote:


I checked the RQCC and the reports
say the bug has been fixed in the DP-2 beta release.

Has this release been released yet?  If not, expected time-frame?


Short answer:
No


More details:
I guess you mean bug 5495. However, it isn't marked as fixed, but  
there's a note about a possible cause from another already fixed bug.
As for knowing whether new releases are available, _IF_ such a bug  
is really marked as fixed for dp2, you'll most likely be able to  
get the new beta via the Check for updates... Item from the  
Help menu very shortly after.


Cheers
Bjoernke

PS: Please do not say bugs are fixed when they aren't, it's not  
good for my blood pressure ;)



--

official ChatRev page:
http://chatrev.bjoernke.com

Chat with other RunRev developers:
go stack URL http://homepage.mac.com/bvg/chatrev1.3.rev;

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Re: The Documentation

2007-10-25 Thread Steven Axtell

Tim,

I am an RR user like you.  I agree with the things that you wrote (have 
included only part of it here).   I had been thinking the same things, but 
had not taken the time to compose a message.


Regards,

Steven Axtell


- Original Message - 
From: Timothy Miller [EMAIL PROTECTED]

To: How to use Revolution use-revolution@lists.runrev.com
Sent: Wednesday, October 24, 2007 10:49 PM
Subject: The Documentation




It seems there aren't many RR users like me, at present. The majority  of 
discussion on the use-rev list is over my head, for instance. Most  users 
seem much more knowledgeable than me. But it seems like there  are 
millions of mildly geekish potential RR users out there. If they  find the 
docs approachable and digestible, they might discover RR and  become 
enthusiastic. Otherwise, it just isn't going to happen.





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Re: The Documentation

2007-10-25 Thread Mark Swindell
Are the docs all being redone for the 3.0 release?  If they are then  
maybe none of this matters.  And speaking of 3.0, is there a  
projected timeline for that yet?

Mark
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Re: runrev2web (learning from the toolbook experience)

2007-10-25 Thread Jim Lambert

Very interesting Toolbook history.
And your approach to creating objects for multiple environments is also 
intriguing.


Thanks,
Jim Lambert

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Convertion functions

2007-10-25 Thread Kavitha

Hi,  

  Is there a method in Revolution to convert integer to string and vice versa.
Example: 
repeat with count = 1 to 10Put text  count into value
// where I want the value to be 'text1,text2' end repeat

Thank you
Kavitha

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Re: Convertion functions

2007-10-25 Thread Mark Schonewille

Hi Kavitha,

In Revolution, there is no need to convert strings to integers and  
vv. Your repeat loop will work fine.


repeat with x = 1 to 10
  put text  x  comma after myList
end repeat
return char 1 to -2 of myList

Best regards,

Mark Schonewille

--

Economy-x-Talk Consulting and Software Engineering
http://economy-x-talk.com
http://www.salery.biz

Quickly extract data from your HyperCard stacks with DIFfersifier.  
http://differsifier.economy-x-talk.com



Op 25-okt-2007, om 17:44 heeft Kavitha het volgende geschreven:



Hi,

  Is there a method in Revolution to convert integer to string and  
vice versa.

Example:
repeat with count = 1 to 10Put text  count into  
value// where I want the value to be  
'text1,text2' end repeat


Thank you
Kavitha


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Re: Convertion functions

2007-10-25 Thread Eric Chatonet

Hi Kavitha,

Le 25 oct. 07 à 17:44, Kavitha a écrit :


Hi,

  Is there a method in Revolution to convert integer to string and  
vice versa.

Example:
repeat with count = 1 to 10Put text  count into  
value// where I want the value to be  
'text1,text2' end repeat


Thank you
Kavitha


Not sure I understand well ;-)
I assume that text1, text2 are variables and you want to concatenate  
the contents of these variables using a loop?

So:

repeat with count = 1 to 10
  do put text  i  after tValue
  put cr after tValue -- return or whatever
end repeat
delete char -1 of tValue -- return

Or

repeat with count = 1 to 10
  do put text  i  into tValue
  Process tValue
end repeat

If it does not help here, may be it will help elsewhere :-)

Best regards from Paris,
Eric Chatonet.

Plugins and tutorials for Revolution: http://www.sosmartsoftware.com/
Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED]/



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The Documentation

2007-10-25 Thread Peter Alcibiades
What is missing exactly?

The dictionary is a pretty good version of a man page. Dan's book is ok at the 
level of 'how to think like a computer scientist'  - simple how to get 
started.  Very nice as far as it goes.  Needs a second 
edition. The pdf is ok also as a printable version of the dictionary with a 
few more examples, assuming it ever gets finished.

There are two things missing, or rather, there is one thing missing, but it 
comes in two flavors.   One is the equivalent of Dive Into Python, 
which early on contains the immortal line 

You know how other books go on and on about programming fundamentals and 
finally work up to building a complete, working program? Let's skip all 
that.  

This is the sort of book that says, you already know about classes, here is 
how they work in Python.

The second is the equivalent of Hetland's Python book.  It is step by step, 
this is how you do certain things, using various bits of the language, with 
an account of pitfalls.  Starts simple and moves you through writing real 
applications.

Both are the reverse of the dictionary:  they both start with something to do, 
and then show how to combine different bits of the language to get it done.
  
The Perl book Minimal Perl is about halfway between these two.  Chapters 
like, why Perl is a better awk.  So start from an assumed knowledge and then 
show how Rev does this particular set of tasks, that the known language was 
designed to do, but does it better.  Again its in reverse, it goes from 
problem to multiple bits of the language.

Not that I'm being hung up on Perl, Python or Ruby - these are just well 
regarded examples of docs.

Getting to be a beginner in Rev is easy.  Getting to be a sophisticated user 
in Rev after that is a Zen like experience.  You go to live with the master 
who attacks you at random intervals, whatever you are doing, for no reason.  
Eventually, you hesitate before entering a doorway.  The master emerges and 
bows deeply.  Son, you are getting there, he says.

The priority ought to be:  One, finish what you started.  So either trash the 
pdf or finish it, don't just leave it there twisting in the wind.  

Two must be, the reverse dictionary - here is how to do specific things, using 
various parts of the language together.  The tutorials are a start but only a 
start.  Its a lot of work - Hetland's book is amazing, and Mark Lutz' book 
even more so.  But I really think that 400-500 systematic pages of this is 
what you need if you're to attract a lot of new people who are not oriented 
to Zen based learning.   If you are doing Dive into Rev for the experienced, 
then it can be shorter.  I don't know which should have priority, Dive, or 
something introductory.  It depends on which market you're going after.

Whether the less experienced new people are worth the trouble, you'd have to 
know more about the numbers for Rev to assess.

I'm not complaining by the way.  Personally I don't mind the odd frustrations 
and find them well compensated by the sudden blinding flash of illumination.  
In fact, I sort of like the mental exercise. But a lot of people are in more 
of a hurry, and if you want to get to them, you have to offer them something 
like that.

Peter
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Re: Concatenate mp3-Files on Macintosh

2007-10-25 Thread R. Hillen

Hello Klaus, Hello Mark,

Thank you for your quick response;
as the script of Klaus didn´t work at once (you wrote not  
tested ;-), I now use the One-Line of Mark to concatenate mp3-files  
in sourceFolder and to store it in targetpath.




get shell(cat  quote  sourceFolder  quote  *.mp3   quote
 targetPath  quote)



One little hint: the last char of sourcefolder should be /!

Greetings
Richard.

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Re: The Documentation

2007-10-25 Thread François Chaplais


Le 16 oct. 07, à 22:42, Richmond Mathewson a écrit :


François Chaplais wrote:

version 2.6.1... looks much better organized than in
version 2.8.1

Hmm, there is a question of licencing here; but (?) I
suppose people who own licences to 2.8.1 may in some
way be allowed access to components from 2.6.1.


A fine point here actually. I do not have access to the 2.6.1 
documentation. At this second, I am considering a buttons for dummies 
stack which, among other things, point to the Rev docs. I do not want 
to go into the details of parsing the official Revolution doc, so I 
will be happy with a simple copy and paste of the doc. I can check the 
environment to see if the user is in development mode, to make sure 
the user has legal access to the doc anyway. If the people at Runtime 
Revolution are not over sensitive over the display of their 
documentation, this would be fine.
Anybody from runRev can attempt an answer to this issue in this mailing 
list?


Very best
Francois



It is extremely simple to hive-off the Documentation
stack from 2.6.1 as a renamed stack so that 2.8.1
users could have it as a documentation source.
Obviously it does not contain the updated stuff such
as Launch document.

Love, Richmond


Francois Chaplais
35 rue Saint-Honore
77305 Fontainebleau Cedex
France
http://cas.ensmp.fr/~chaplais/index-e.html


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Re: The Documentation

2007-10-25 Thread François Chaplais


Le 25 oct. 07, à 23:38, François Chaplais a écrit :
A fine point here actually. I do not have access to the 2.6.1 
documentation. At this second, I am considering a buttons for 
dummies stack which, among other things, point to the Rev docs. I do 
not want to go into the details of parsing the official Revolution 
doc, so I will be happy with a simple copy and paste of the doc. I can 
check the environment to see if the user is in development mode, to 
make sure the user has legal access to the doc anyway. If the people 
at Runtime Revolution are not over sensitive over the display of their 
documentation, this would be fine.
Anybody from runRev can attempt an answer to this issue in this 
mailing list?


on the other hand, I just realized I can use BvG Docu to drive the doc 
display



Francois Chaplais
35 rue Saint-Honore
77305 Fontainebleau Cedex
France
http://cas.ensmp.fr/~chaplais/index-e.html


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Re: The Documentation

2007-10-25 Thread Gregory Lypny
The original HyperCard manuals are hard to beat for parsimony,  
elegance, and darn good writing in my opinion.


Gregory
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Re: The Documentation

2007-10-25 Thread Stephen Barncard

The original manuals were more than skimpy.

I think you mean the Winkler and Shafer books.


The original HyperCard manuals are hard to beat for parsimony, 
elegance, and darn good writing in my opinion.


Gregory


--


stephen barncard
s a n  f r a n c i s c o
- - -  - - - - - - - - -



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Re: The Documentation

2007-10-25 Thread Kay C Lan
On 10/25/07, Timothy Miller [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:


 On Oct 24, 2007, at 12:12 PM, Richmond Mathewson wrote:

  I learnt RR by trial and error, old HC knowledge
  (founded on Danny goodman's EXCELLENT book...)

 Me too. However, in my case, my understanding and skill have not
 grown much beyond that point.


cut...

 But it seems like there
 are millions of mildly geekish potential RR users out there. If they
 find the docs approachable and digestible, they might discover RR and
 become enthusiastic. Otherwise, it just isn't going to happen.


True, but I think what everyone needs to appreciate is that Apple had a LOT
more resources, both personnel and monetary, than Rev has and still people
flocked to third party authors to get to grips with HC. People seem to be
expecting from Rev what Apple itself couldn't achieve.

Jim Ault wrote:

  Moving off topic a bit..  the sample stack library, much like Rev User
  Spaces.  Again, Beginner, Adv, Expert ratings.
  Showing a working example is worth a 1000 visits to the
  Dictionary.  I might
  be exaggerating, but not by much.

 Sample stacks don't consistently work well for me, especially if they
 are sample projects. Buttons, fields and graphics are easy. Scripts
 are hard. The projects themselves rarely interest me.

 Sample lines of script in the docs work great for me.

 If the docs, in their current form, had five or ten times as many
 sample lines of transcript for every command, property, function,
 etc., and, sometimes, possibly, very short working scripts, I would
 almost always be able to answer my own questions. The large number of
 samples would reflect various contexts and purposes, varying degrees
 of difficulty, and so on.


I'm 110% with you here. It's why I believe BvG Docu + WebNotes Plus (other's
contributions)
has so much potential. You and I will never have the authoring skills of the
like of Danny, Dan, David or DeVoto (is it because we don't have a D in our
initials?) but I have no doubt that even you, after struggling to understand
some terse example and finally having the 'penny drop' would pen an
inclusion aimed at newbies giving a fuller layman's explanation of what it
all means and how you make it work.

In the mean time, we continue to go around and around in circles.
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Double Clicking App Icon Opens Rev but not the App

2007-10-25 Thread Blair Morrissey
I assume that I'm ignorant of some pretty basic stuff. Sorry to  
inconvenience you folks, but I sure would appreciate some help. I'm  
using Rev Studio and OSX 10.4.10


I have an App that I've been using in the development environment for  
several years. I have always opened it and Rev at the same time by  
double clicking the App's icon in the finder.


Now double clicking the App's icon opens Rev, but does not make the  
App visible and does not run the openstack hander in the mainstack.  
However, the App can then be 'opened' using Application Browser.  
Additionally, the same is true for backup copies of the App that are  
several months old. Double clicking their icons opens Rev, but not  
the BU App.


If I open Rev directly (without clicking on an app), I can then use  
the Open command in the File menu to open my App and it does all the  
stuff in the App's  openstack handler.


Double clicking other unrelated Apps continues to open both that App  
and Rev.


I have reinstalled Rev and uninstalled GLX2. The problem persists.

Thanks

Blair Morrissey



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Re: The Documentation

2007-10-25 Thread Stephen Barncard

And of course Danny Goodman.


The original manuals were more than skimpy.

I think you mean the Winkler and Shafer books.

The original HyperCard manuals are hard to beat for parsimony, 
elegance, and darn good writing in my opinion.


Gregory


--

stephen barncard


--


stephen barncard
s a n  f r a n c i s c o
- - -  - - - - - - - - -



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Re: The Documentation

2007-10-25 Thread Howard Bornstein
I agree with Gregory. I loved the Hypercard documentation: clear,
well-organized, concise, nice examples. I'm looking at the Hypercard Script
Language Guide right now. It's 583 pages. I wouldn't call that skimpy.

-- 
Regards,

Howard Bornstein
---
www.designeq.com - Hide quoted text -


On 10/25/07, Stephen Barncard [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

 The original manuals were more than skimpy.

 I think you mean the Winkler and Shafer books.


 The original HyperCard manuals are hard to beat for parsimony,
 elegance, and darn good writing in my opinion.
 
Gregory

 --


 stephen barncard
 s a n  f r a n c i s c o
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Re: The Documentation

2007-10-25 Thread Kay C Lan
On 10/26/07, Stephen Barncard [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

 The original manuals were more than skimpy.

 I think you mean the Winkler and Shafer books.


 The original HyperCard manuals are hard to beat for parsimony,
 elegance, and darn good writing in my opinion.
 
Gregory


Yes, again, the Apple 'Offical' Docs were better than the Rev's 'Official'
Docs, but considering the resources available to Apple it's not surprising.
BUT, the Docs everyone wants are the ones penned by third party interests.
Even the examples given for python and Perl books are all third party
authors. None have been penned by the mother ship.

People shouldn't be saying the Rev Docs should be this or that. People
should be complaining that Goodman, Shafer, DeVoto, Progue et al have failed
to see the vast market of purchasers, stepped into the void to wield their
talent in the direction of Rev books.

Then again, Dan has and didn't follow up, so maybe the market isn't worth
the effort.

So back to a user driven approach we go.

So the Doc thread continues to go around and around in circles. (Death,
Taxes, and the Doc thread:-)
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Re: The Documentation

2007-10-25 Thread Richard Gaskin

Kay C Lan wrote:

People shouldn't be saying the Rev Docs should be this or that. People
should be complaining that Goodman, Shafer, DeVoto, Progue et al have failed
to see the vast market of purchasers, stepped into the void to wield their
talent in the direction of Rev books.


The majority of Rev's 4000+ pages of documentation was authored by the 
DeVoto mentioned above, using a style guideline very similar to the one 
she used for HyperTalk 2.2: The Book.


As for a third-party opportunities, get Apple to bundle Rev for free 
with every Mac and I think we'd see plenty of new books about it. ;)


--
 Richard Gaskin
 Managing Editor, revJournal
 ___
 Rev tips, tutorials and more: http://www.revJournal.com
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Re: The Documentation

2007-10-25 Thread Kay C Lan
On 10/26/07, Richard Gaskin [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

 The majority of Rev's 4000+ pages of documentation was authored by the
 DeVoto mentioned above, using a style guideline very similar to the one
 she used for HyperTalk 2.2: The Book.


 I was more partial to Dan's 'The Complete Book of HyperTalk 2' and Danny's
'The Complete HyperCard 2.2 Handbook'. I think though the distinction is
that 'they were books'. I liked the supplied Docs that came with HC and the
sample stacks, but I still needed Dan and Danny's books beside me to make
things gel. I like Jeanne's work with the Rev Doc's, it's a pity that in the
upgrade that some of the Quick Guides from 2.6 were lost, but still, if she
wrote a physical book with a 'style guideline slightly different' I'd
definitely consider purchasing it - price dependent:-)

As for a third-party opportunities, get Apple to bundle Rev for free
 with every Mac and I think we'd see plenty of new books about it. ;)


Well I guess that's another one of those resources that Apple had for HC
that Rev doesn't. Sounds like a job for a highly motivated Marketing Whiz...
know anyone that fits that Bill;-)
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Re: The Documentation

2007-10-25 Thread Mark Swindell


As for a third-party opportunities, get Apple to bundle Rev for free

with every Mac and I think we'd see plenty of new books about it. ;)




iPerCard?
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Re: The Documentation

2007-10-25 Thread François Chaplais


Le 26 oct. 07, à 05:55, Richard Gaskin a écrit :


The majority of Rev's 4000+ pages of documentation


huh? pages? do you mean paper pages? Or do you mean the online doc? (I 
do not mention the pdf which is not finished).


OK, I have just spent the night looking at DocsLib by BvG, and i'm 
tired.


To make things simple, a VERY nice (and IMHO, simple)  improvement on 
the rev online doc would by the ability to send a doc command with 
syntax

doc string
where string may be anything
and which would have the same effect as typing the string in the search 
field of the online doc (nothing more, nothing less than the doc 
window).


This would make it easier to produce introductory stacks with links to 
the official documentation.


Should not be that difficult from the developers' point of view.

Very best,
Francois

 was authored by the DeVoto mentioned above, using a style guideline 
very similar to the one she used for HyperTalk 2.2: The Book.


As for a third-party opportunities, get Apple to bundle Rev for free 
with every Mac and I think we'd see plenty of new books about it. ;)



Francois Chaplais
35 rue Saint-Honore
77305 Fontainebleau Cedex
France
http://cas.ensmp.fr/~chaplais/index-e.html


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Re: The Documentation

2007-10-25 Thread Richard Gaskin

François Chaplais wrote:
To make things simple, a VERY nice (and IMHO, simple)  improvement on 
the rev online doc would by the ability to send a doc command with 
syntax

doc string
where string may be anything
and which would have the same effect as typing the string in the search 
field of the online doc (nothing more, nothing less than the doc 
window).


This would make it easier to produce introductory stacks with links to 
the official documentation.


Should not be that difficult from the developers' point of view.


That's a very excellent idea.

Right now I think Rev is the only producer of a Rev dictionary that 
doesn't have such a call.  I added one to the MC docs a while back, 
Jerry's GLX2 has one, and I believe BVG's has one too.


It would be ideal if all of us used the same syntax, so folks could mix 
and match their favorite dictionary and it would work with their 
favorite script editor, etc.


My only question is whether doc is the best token for us. It seems a 
bit general, perhaps hard to discern it's for Transcript dictionary lookups.


Any suggestions for alternatives?

Should we get buy-in from RunRev on whatever we propose, so everything 
-- including their stuff -- will work well with third-party options?


--
 Richard Gaskin
 Managing Editor, revJournal
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