Windows System Requirements

[Joe Lewis Wilkins]

Anyone who knows:

How old a Windows OS will run RunRev stacks with Stack Runner? 95, 98,  
2000, XP (of course), but earlier?

I'm trying to assemble system Requirements for a completed project.

TIA,

Joe Wilkins



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Relaunch

[J. Landman Gay]

The docs are a little vague on one aspect of the relaunch command. I 
assumed it would only be sent if there was an existing instance of the 
standalone running, but further down in the description the docs say: 
"If there are no existing instances, the new instance will run."


Is "relaunch" sent to a standalone when there is no other instance 
running? And if so, where in the message hierarchy is it sent?


--
Jacqueline Landman Gay | [EMAIL PROTECTED]
HyperActive Software   | http://www.hyperactivesw.com
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Re: Reloading a changed stack file

[Richard Gaskin]

Chipp Walters wrote:


On Sun, Sep 28, 2008 at 7:31 AM, Len Morgan  wrote:


My problem is how to I get rid of this in-memory copy and replace it with
the new version (assuming that I had to download a new version)?

Is it as simple as:

if tVersionUpdated then
  stop using tCurrentStack
end if



Revert can work. I like to use the 'delete stack' command as well for this
sort of thing. It forces the removal of a stack from memory.

if tVersionUpdated then
   delete stack tCurrentStack
   go stack tCurrentStackFilename
end if


One cautionary note for newcomers:  the "delete stack" command is a 
"sometimes" command - sometimes it does what it says, other times it 
does what you want. :)


"Delete stack" doesn't delete the stack if the stack in question is a 
maintstack.  With mainstacks, it merely removes it from memory, and has 
no effect on the existence of the file on disk.


But when using "delete stack" on a substack, it will delete indeed the 
substack from the stack file, which may or may not be what you want.


This bifurcated behavior warrants some caution, at least until we get a 
true "purge" command, which seems a more sensible option when what we 
want to do is purge a stack without deleting it:



I tend to use "revert" myself, so I don't have to worry about whether 
the stack is a substack or mainstack.


--
 Richard Gaskin
 Managing Editor, revJournal
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re: Reloading a changed stack file

[Stephen Barncard]

The application browser needs to be manually refreshed for the latest 
info. Look for a little icon at the bottom of the scrollbar that will 
refresh the list.



After checking all the versions of my stacks, I opened the 
Application Browser and the only stacks showing were ones that had 
actually had some code run.  I was under the impression that merely 
getting custom property from a stack caused it to be loaded into 
memory but since it doesn't show, what exactly would revert revert 
to?


Also, the documentation on the revert command says that it only 
applies to the "current stack."  Since these stacks are not showing 
up in the application browser, if I later issue a "start using stack 
xyz" will it use the copy that is "hidden" in RAM, or will it reload 
a fresh copy from the hard disk?


len morgan



--


stephen barncard
s a n  f r a n c i s c o
- - -  - - - - - - - - -



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Re: Object Reference in Variable?

[Thomas McGrath III]

This was the biggest problem with the 'science' behind the creation of  
the Ribbon. Although they used FITS law to decide placement they  
actually misinterpreted FITS law which helps decide the travel  
distance between common work flow and buttons, menus, keystrokes, etc.  
They (MS) determined FITS law applied to all mouse movements  
regardless of common sense or of consistency. When FITS law was  
created it was for keyboard layouts and menu layouts which were static  
and non changing and it did not take into account changing content and  
in fact the developers of FITS law have stated that  it is only a  
rudimentary way of judging the smoothness of movement and energy used  
but not an absolute law.


If you go through all of the tests done for the new Office UI and the  
methods used you will find tons of areas where they made decisions on  
layout and elements and made changes without regard for common sense  
and in other cases without regard for familiarity and consistency.  
That said, it is nice to see that they even took the time to study  
these things and to research the users of these things. I just wish  
they had understood the intended use of things like FITS law and  
applied them appropriately instead of just changing things to change  
things and those were based on a misinterpretation of the governing  
rules.


"If you take something like the spacebar on a keyboard which comes  
from the typewriter era. The size was determined by the common space  
between two hands resting on the home row (ASDF). This does not mean  
that all instances of a space bar need to be this size. The science  
states that it requires less energy to use in the position and size  
that it is on most keyboards with the hands resting thus, however when  
this same 'key' the spacebar is used elsewhere it does not need to be  
this size or in this place. When FITS law is misused than the space  
bar will be in this proportion and placement regardless of use. The  
spacebar on an iphone is in the same placement and proportion trying  
to maintain this but does not 'need' to be so, whereas the space bar  
on a blackberry or on an LG phone is completely different. On these  
phones they have taken into consideration that although there is a  
home row there are no fingers resting on it and in fact only a thumb  
is being used and so FITS law would require the space bar placement  
and size to require the least amount of energy movement for a thumb as  
the input source. Both Blackbery and LG decided that most people are  
right handed and therefore made the spacebar best accessible for right  
handed people. The only problem here is that the consistency of the  
spacebar 'always' resting below the qwerty keyboard has become as  
common as using toilet paper and moving it in size or placement goes  
against the common expectations of it and most people could not  
readily find the space bar on an LG phone (which is in the lower right  
corner). The question is wether or not this change is justified just  
because of FITS law or wether this should not be changed because of  
how common it is in it's normal placement."


This same argument should apply to disappearing menus and moving  
targets etc. which the Ribbon is full of. Concepts like FITS law need  
to be take in context and should never override common sense in the  
development of standards.



My 12 Cents

Tom McGrath

On Sep 26, 2008, at 2:46 PM, Richard Gaskin wrote:

I don't have measurements offhand for how one should appropriately  
weight consistency over progressive disclosure, but when I  
corresponded with Tog a while back on a related topic (the placement  
of dialog buttons, another story) he seemed to rank consistency very  
highly, even above natural reading-order, with regard to control  
layouts.


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Re: Reloading a changed stack file

[Björnke von Gierke]

I'd say the Application Browser is the last place to look at for  
verifying the existence of running stacks in rev. But you are right  
about the need for a current stack to revert, but if it's the current  
stack then it's always in memory. To change the current stack, you can  
use the defaultStack property.



On 28 Sep 2008, at 22:57, Len Morgan wrote:

Try the revert command, it's perfect for this, assuming you do  
replace   the stacks on the hard disk, and are not creating new  
files.


On 28 Sep 2008, at 14:31, Len Morgan wrote:


...
Also, the documentation on the revert command says that it only  
applies to the "current stack."  Since these stacks are not showing  
up in the application browser, if I later issue a "start using stack  
xyz" will it use the copy that is "hidden" in RAM, or will it reload  
a fresh copy from the hard disk?






--

official ChatRev page:
http://bjoernke.com/runrev/chatrev.php

Chat with other RunRev developers:
go stack URL "http://bjoernke.com/stacks/chatrev/chatrev1.3b3.rev";

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Re: Req: spinning progress indicator a la OS X

[Thomas McGrath III]

This also shows up well over a black or gradated background where as  
the other two do not. The Ajax one of course can be set to any  
background but that is just one more step.


Very Cool.

Tom McGrath

On Sep 26, 2008, at 1:08 PM, Devin Asay wrote:



Wow! Lots of great references in this thread. But for the sake of  
completeness, and sheer, 100%-Transcript-coolness, here is a re-post  
of a set of handlers posted a few years ago by Wouter. I assume he  
wouldn't mind my re-posting it:


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re: Reloading a changed stack file

[Len Morgan]

Try the revert command, it's perfect for this, assuming you do replace  
 the stacks on the hard disk, and are not creating new files.


 On 28 Sep 2008, at 14:31, Len Morgan wrote:


This sounds like what I'm after but when I tried this, I observed something 
that may throw a monkey wrench (spanner on the other side of the pond) in the 
works.

After checking all the versions of my stacks, I opened the Application Browser 
and the only stacks showing were ones that had actually had some code run.  I 
was under the impression that merely getting custom property from a stack 
caused it to be loaded into memory but since it doesn't show, what exactly 
would revert revert to?

Also, the documentation on the revert command says that it only applies to the "current stack."  
Since these stacks are not showing up in the application browser, if I later issue a "start using stack 
xyz" will it use the copy that is "hidden" in RAM, or will it reload a fresh copy from the 
hard disk?

len morgan


> I'm back again with an "autoupdater" question.  I have an  
> application that is made up of a bunch of stacks.  Each stack as a  
> custom property cstkVersion that carries the current version number  
> of that stack.  On my server, I have the latest versions of all the  
> stacks and a text file that contains lines of the form:

> stackfilename,stackversion
>
> I have one "get the ball rolling stack" that checks itself against  
> the latest version and then downloads the latest version if the  
> versions are different.  This part seems to be working fine although  
> I do require the user to quit the program and restart it if it has  
> been updated.  This whole process is started up by a stand-alone  
> that launches this first stack and is simple enough that the stand- 
> alone should only require changing when the engine changes.

>
> Now to the "real" problem/question: As I'm going through my text  
> file of stack names/versions, I have to check the cstkVersion  
> property of each stack on the user's hard drive against the version  
> listed in the text file.  In order to read the property, the stack  
> has to be loaded into memory.  My problem is how to I get rid of  
> this in-memory copy and replace it with the new version (assuming  
> that I had to download a new version)?

>
> Is it as simple as:
>
> if tVersionUpdated then
>   stop using tCurrentStack
> end if
>

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Re: Reloading a changed stack file

[Chipp Walters]

On Sun, Sep 28, 2008 at 7:31 AM, Len Morgan <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

> My problem is how to I get rid of this in-memory copy and replace it with
> the new version (assuming that I had to download a new version)?
>
> Is it as simple as:
>
> if tVersionUpdated then
>   stop using tCurrentStack
> end if


Revert can work. I like to use the 'delete stack' command as well for this
sort of thing. It forces the removal of a stack from memory.

if tVersionUpdated then
   delete stack tCurrentStack
   go stack tCurrentStackFilename
end if
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Re: Breakpoint troubles

[J. Landman Gay]

Kee Nethery wrote:
I run into this quite frequently. The workaround for me is to manually 
put a breakpoint (the dot in the debugger) on a line after the thing 
that causes the runaway. When it emerges from the function that causes 
it to forget that it is in debug, it hits the one I manually added and 
goes back into debug.


That's the right solution. I ran into the same thing early in the beta 
cycle and Oliver mentioned that it was a problem they were aware of and 
are trying to fix. The issue is a conflict with some of the handlers in 
Rev's frontscripts which are necessary to run the IDE. At this point, 
the only solution is to place the breakpoint below the line that is 
causing the problem, which allows the frontscript to run and then 
debugging to continue.


--
Jacqueline Landman Gay | [EMAIL PROTECTED]
HyperActive Software   | http://www.hyperactivesw.com
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Re: Breakpoint troubles

[Mark Wieder]

Len-

Saturday, September 27, 2008, 10:21:44 PM, you wrote:

> Is there some issue with breakpoints and blocking handlers that I'm not
> aware of?

FWIW, the GLX2 debugger handles this without a problem. I believe the
issue with the IDE's debugger is that the URL call is in a system
stack, so the debugger doesn't trace through it and doesn't set a
breakpoint on the following line, so execution just continues until
the end of the handler.

-- 
-Mark Wieder
 [EMAIL PROTECTED]

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Visible and extra monitors.

[Richmond Mathewson]

Just uploaded to revOnline my implementation of the recent discussion about 
whether a stack is visible to the person sitting in front of the VDU:

"Visibubble" under 'Richmond'

and it works . . . except that I have 2 monitors attached to my Mac G4 
"Windtunnel"; and when I can see a stack on the the second monitor my program 
tells me it is not visible.

Bright ideas welcomed.

sincerely, Richmond Mathewson.



A Thorn in the flesh is better than a failed Systems Development Life Cycle.




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Re: Painting on an image in a group?

[Joe Lewis Wilkins]

David, I assume you're using the paint bucket tool for the user to  
paint with?


I'm not quite sure why you are grouping this one image with the  
button. Why

not just have each new card created with its own image. Group the button
so it appears on all of the cards; and, perhaps, you may wish to hide  
it if or
when you want to print the painted image. Also, what are the types of  
images
you are using? Just drawn in the IDE or imported as a control image  
from files

that have been scanned or maybe photos? I've been having success with
user painting under almost all of these circumstances.

Joe Wilkins

On Sep 28, 2008, at 3:18 AM, David Bovill wrote:

It's a group with one image and a button in it. AFAIK - there is no  
way to
do this, except be cloing the image as a card level object and  
painting in

that - transfering the image contents to the groups image later?

2008/9/24 Joe Lewis Wilkins <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>


Hi David,

Is it a group of images or a group of mixed objects?

Joe Wilkins


On Sep 23, 2008, at 4:45 PM, David Bovill wrote:

In the IDE if you select an image in a group and try to paint - it  
creates

a
new image. Is there any way to to set things up / script it so  
that a user

can paint in an image inside a group?

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Re: Breakpoint troubles

[Mark Schonewille]

Hi Kee,

This will probably not solve the problem, because while in debug mode,  
Rev thinks that the URL has been downloaded immediately. (Again, I'm  
not 100% sure of this).


--
Best regards,

Mark Schonewille

Economy-x-Talk Consulting and Software Engineering
http://economy-x-talk.com
http://www.salery.biz
Dutch forum: http://runrev.info/rrforum/

Benefit from our inexpensive hosting services. See http://economy-x-talk.com/server.html 
 for more info.


On 28 sep 2008, at 15:20, Kee Nethery wrote:

I run into this quite frequently. The workaround for me is to  
manually put a breakpoint (the dot in the debugger) on a line after  
the thing that causes the runaway. When it emerges from the function  
that causes it to forget that it is in debug, it hits the one I  
manually added and goes back into debug.


Kee Nethery


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Re: Breakpoint troubles

[Kee Nethery]

I run into this quite frequently. The workaround for me is to manually  
put a breakpoint (the dot in the debugger) on a line after the thing  
that causes the runaway. When it emerges from the function that causes  
it to forget that it is in debug, it hits the one I manually added and  
goes back into debug.


Kee Nethery

On Sep 27, 2008, at 10:21 PM, Len Morgan wrote:


I'm trying to debug the following:
...
breakpoint
put URL myURL into tTextOfURL
put "I made it"

It seems to be stopping ok at the breakpoint but when I execute the  
next line (the put URL...), it skips to end of the handler.   
Actually, to the next line of the handler that called this one.


Is there some issue with breakpoints and blocking handlers that I'm  
not aware of?


Thanks!

len morgan
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-
I check email roughly 2 to 3 times per business day.
Kagi main office: +1 (510) 550-1336


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Re: Breakpoint troubles

[Mark Schonewille]

Hi Len,

What you describe may be caused by this bug:



Although I haven't investigated this in detail, I can imagine that the  
debugger causes a callback to be sent internally before the URL  
finishes loading, which means that Rev will never wait for the url to  
load. At this point, there is nothing you can do about it. Wait for  
the bug to be fixed.


--
Best regards,

Mark Schonewille

Economy-x-Talk Consulting and Software Engineering
http://economy-x-talk.com
http://www.salery.biz
Dutch forum: http://runrev.info/rrforum/

Benefit from our inexpensive hosting services. See http://economy-x-talk.com/server.html 
 for more info.


On 28 sep 2008, at 14:42, Len Morgan wrote:


Mark,

I certainly has some of the same symptoms of the bug you listed but  
I can understand why the debugger might get a little confused if it

has to stop on the message declaration (on mouseUp in the case above).

I am several lines down in the handler before my breakpoint, and the  
line that is giving me problems is a few lines beyond that.  It was  
very
consistent in skipping the rest of the handler and landing at the  
line AFTER the call to the handler in the handler "above" it.  It  
also was
very consistently working right if I put the breakpoint AFTER the  
put URL ... line.  For what it's worth, the file was never downloaded

with the breakpoint before the put URL ... but always downloaded when
it was AFTER it.

len morgan



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RE: Breakpoint troubles

[Len Morgan]

Hi Len,

I tried the following:

on mouseUp
   breakpoint
   put URL "http://economy-x-talk.com";  into 
tTextOfURL
   put "I made it"
end mouseUp

which worked fine. I could step line by line till the end. Is there  
anything else you did or is your script incomplete?


Is it possible that your problem is connected to this bug report:
 ?


Mark,

I certainly has some of the same symptoms of the bug you listed but 
I can understand why the debugger might get a little confused if it

has to stop on the message declaration (on mouseUp in the case above).

I am several lines down in the handler before my breakpoint, and the 
line that is giving me problems is a few lines beyond that.  It was very
consistent in skipping the rest of the handler and landing at the line 
AFTER the call to the handler in the handler "above" it.  It also was
very consistently working right if I put the breakpoint AFTER the 
put URL ... line.  For what it's worth, the file was never downloaded

with the breakpoint before the put URL ... but always downloaded when
it was AFTER it.

len morgan 


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Re: Reloading a changed stack file

[Björnke von Gierke]

Try the revert command, it's perfect for this, assuming you do replace  
the stacks on the hard disk, and are not creating new files.


On 28 Sep 2008, at 14:31, Len Morgan wrote:

I'm back again with an "autoupdater" question.  I have an  
application that is made up of a bunch of stacks.  Each stack as a  
custom property cstkVersion that carries the current version number  
of that stack.  On my server, I have the latest versions of all the  
stacks and a text file that contains lines of the form:

stackfilename,stackversion

I have one "get the ball rolling stack" that checks itself against  
the latest version and then downloads the latest version if the  
versions are different.  This part seems to be working fine although  
I do require the user to quit the program and restart it if it has  
been updated.  This whole process is started up by a stand-alone  
that launches this first stack and is simple enough that the stand- 
alone should only require changing when the engine changes.


Now to the "real" problem/question: As I'm going through my text  
file of stack names/versions, I have to check the cstkVersion  
property of each stack on the user's hard drive against the version  
listed in the text file.  In order to read the property, the stack  
has to be loaded into memory.  My problem is how to I get rid of  
this in-memory copy and replace it with the new version (assuming  
that I had to download a new version)?


Is it as simple as:

if tVersionUpdated then
  stop using tCurrentStack
end if

and then when I really need the stack, another "start using  
stack ..." ?


The documentation for "reload stack" indicates that this is used to  
prevent two stacks with the same name being loaded at the same  
time.  If I don't pass the message on, I'll have the old and the new  
stack in memory at the same time.  I understand how this might cause  
problems.  If I pass the message on, what happens?  Does it purge  
the current version from memory and then load the new one?  Does it  
throw and error?  Does it go ahead and load the new version too and  
then decide which one messages will be sent to?


Is there another command or function that will purge the stack  
currently in memory and reload the new and improved version from disk?


Thanks for any clarity you can provide.

len morgan

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Reloading a changed stack file

[Len Morgan]

I'm back again with an "autoupdater" question.  I have an application 
that is made up of a bunch of stacks.  Each stack as a custom property 
cstkVersion that carries the current version number of that stack.  On 
my server, I have the latest versions of all the stacks and a text file 
that contains lines of the form:

stackfilename,stackversion

I have one "get the ball rolling stack" that checks itself against the 
latest version and then downloads the latest version if the versions are 
different.  This part seems to be working fine although I do require the 
user to quit the program and restart it if it has been updated.  This 
whole process is started up by a stand-alone that launches this first 
stack and is simple enough that the stand-alone should only require 
changing when the engine changes.


Now to the "real" problem/question: As I'm going through my text file of 
stack names/versions, I have to check the cstkVersion property of each 
stack on the user's hard drive against the version listed in the text 
file.  In order to read the property, the stack has to be loaded into 
memory.  My problem is how to I get rid of this in-memory copy and 
replace it with the new version (assuming that I had to download a new 
version)?


Is it as simple as:

if tVersionUpdated then
   stop using tCurrentStack
end if

and then when I really need the stack, another "start using stack ..." ?

The documentation for "reload stack" indicates that this is used to 
prevent two stacks with the same name being loaded at the same time.  If 
I don't pass the message on, I'll have the old and the new stack in 
memory at the same time.  I understand how this might cause problems.  
If I pass the message on, what happens?  Does it purge the current 
version from memory and then load the new one?  Does it throw and 
error?  Does it go ahead and load the new version too and then decide 
which one messages will be sent to?


Is there another command or function that will purge the stack currently 
in memory and reload the new and improved version from disk?


Thanks for any clarity you can provide.

len morgan

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Re: Painting on an image in a group?

[David Bovill]

It's a group with one image and a button in it. AFAIK - there is no way to
do this, except be cloing the image as a card level object and painting in
that - transfering the image contents to the groups image later?

2008/9/24 Joe Lewis Wilkins <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>

> Hi David,
>
> Is it a group of images or a group of mixed objects?
>
> Joe Wilkins
>
>
> On Sep 23, 2008, at 4:45 PM, David Bovill wrote:
>
>  In the IDE if you select an image in a group and try to paint - it creates
>> a
>> new image. Is there any way to to set things up / script it so that a user
>> can paint in an image inside a group?
>>
>
> --
> Please avoid sending me Word or PowerPoint attachments.
> See   
> 
> Joe Lewis Wilkins
> [EMAIL PROTECTED]
>
>
>
>
>
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Re: How do I prevent a Key being pressed down all the time?

[William de Smet]

Hi Bernd,

You were right about the local variable.
Now it works perfectly: if you keep the arrowkey pressed down it is
only send once!

Thanks!

And yes, the race is on again!

greetings,

William

2008/9/27 BNig <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>:
>
> Hi Andreas and William,
>
> Andreas that is very nifty and works for me, it seems though you left out
> the local variable.
> William you would have to script the other arrowKeys if you use them in your
> program.
>
> This works for me in a stack script:
>
> -
> local pressed
> on arrowKey theKey
>if pressed = "" then put false into pressed -- first round
>if (theKey = "Right") and (not pressed) then
>move img "dummy" relative 30,0
>put true into pressed
>end if
> end arrowKey
>
> on rawKeyUp keycode
>if keycode = 65363 then put false into pressed
> end rawKeyUp
> ---
>
> cheers
>
> Bernd
> --
> View this message in context: 
> http://www.nabble.com/How-do-I-prevent-a-Key-being-pressed-down-all-the-time--tp19701916p19706261.html
> Sent from the Revolution - User mailing list archive at Nabble.com.
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Re: Breakpoint troubles

[Mark Schonewille]

Hi Len,

I tried the following:

on mouseUp
   breakpoint
   put URL "http://economy-x-talk.com"; into tTextOfURL
   put "I made it"
end mouseUp

which worked fine. I could step line by line till the end. Is there  
anything else you did or is your script incomplete?


Is it possible that your problem is connected to this bug report:
 ?

--
Best regards,

Mark Schonewille

Economy-x-Talk Consulting and Software Engineering
http://economy-x-talk.com
http://www.salery.biz
Dutch forum: http://runrev.info/rrforum/

Benefit from our inexpensive hosting services. See http://economy-x-talk.com/server.html 
 for more info.


On 28 sep 2008, at 07:21, Len Morgan wrote:


I'm trying to debug the following:
...
breakpoint
put URL myURL into tTextOfURL
put "I made it"

It seems to be stopping ok at the breakpoint but when I execute the  
next line (the put URL...), it skips to end of the handler.   
Actually, to the next line of the handler that called this one.


Is there some issue with breakpoints and blocking handlers that I'm  
not aware of?


Thanks!

len morgan



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