Re: iPhone again

[Jim Sims]

On Oct 12, 2008, at 1:26 PM, Sarah Reichelt wrote:


... get a real-time,
constantly updating display of this instrument's current value, in
full screen on the iPhone. It is very cool to be perched on the top of
a ladder, a long way away from any computer, filling a large tank
while watching it's current volume being displayed in the palm of your
hand:-)


Sarah - That is very, very cool indeed!  Perfect case for an iPhone.
As this is company use, the following might not be possible, but
might a screen shot or two be available? Can you take a screen shot
with an iPhone?

sims

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Re: iPhone again

[Andre Garzia]

> Apple reps have strongly emphasized that implementing a pure web solution is
> the least trouble. It makes a lot of sense to me to go this route unless
> there's some major performance issue, like creating a game that requires
> some sort of local acceleration.
>

Lynn,

iPhone web apps can't access goodies such as location api or file
uploads or file access or camera

Andre


-- 
http://www.andregarzia.com All We Do Is Code.
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Re: openSockets strangeness

[Alex Tweedly]

Björnke von Gierke wrote:
I can't really help on the first of your questions, but maybe it is 
this: The open socket message will do what you want, namely open a 
socket. The computer on the other end (or your own when you use 
localhost as in your examples), will then either:

1. reject it (at which point you'll get a notice)
2. just silently do nothing about it, which is far more often (prolly 
so to not give away too much info)

3. accept it

 So often you'll only get a socket error when you actually try to do 
something, and then the client (your stack) realises that it can't 
send anything trough.
But even in case 2 (silent ignore),  I get a socket error after 1 second 
(on Windows).


My test code looks like:

on startitgoing
   put 'starting' & the millisecs & CR after field "field1"
   set the sockettimeoutinterval to 1
   open socket "127.0.0.1:10261" with callback socketopened
   put the opensockets & CR after field "Field1"
end startitgoing

on sockettimeout
   put "time out" & the millisecs  & CR  after field "Field1"
end sockettimeout

on socketerror
   put "error" & the millisecs & CR  after field "Field1"
   put the opensockets & CR after field "Field1"
end socketerror


On line 5 (ie. immediately following the open socket command), I do see 
the socket apparently open. But just about 1 second later I receive the 
socketError message, and the openSockets no longer contains anything.


-- Alex.
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Re: "Seamless Tiles Generator 2" updated

[Wilhelm Sanke, FB01]

Stephen Barncard stephenREVOLUTION2 at barncard.com wrote:

>> I would very much like to know what kind of error dialog you get and which
>> operations could not be cancelled.

> as I said, the IDE doesn't like the imbedded substack with the name 
> Answer Dialog.
> The custom dialog just needs another name.  The support code is trivial.

I know.

I use a number of totally customized dialogs - created from scratch - in my
stacks. See the last public version of  the "Imagedata Toolkit"
 and especially my
sample stack "modal dialogs" from 2003


What I - and we as the MC-user group - have done is to further develop and
improve the answer and ask dialogs, namely 
- to allow placing the dialogs anywhere
- to avoid the truly oversized width of the Rev dialogs.
This is now established standard for the dialogs in the MC IDE.

Two things concerning the Rev IDE are "trivial" here:

You would need only "two" additional script lines in the scripts of the Rev
answer and ask dialogs to achieve the option to "place" the dialogs. Likewise it
would be easy to diminish the disproportional width of the dialogs. The
Revolution team has apparently never paid any attention to such possible and
trivial changes.

And it would be likewise trivial to exempt answer and ask dialogs from the
stack-collision routine in the Rev frontscripts.-

I agree with Jacqueline about much of what she stated in her post of Sun Oct 12
14:09:12 CDT 2008 about the relative merits of both IDEs, but I have the feeling
that her argumentation is somewhat influenced by her double loyalty to
Revolution and Metacard (which I appreciate, and which I also feel to some
degree) - and in that downplaying disadvantages of the Rev IDE that have time
and again been discussed on both lists.

The Rev IDE has much improved over time, but IMHO is still the weakest part of
Revolution. There have been stacks with specific features not long ago that
simply could not be handled by the Rev IDE. The Application Browser would
freeze. Stacks would slow down considerably and become virtually unusable etc.
In the meantime many things have indeed improved, but a number of aspects still
urgently needs further development.

Jacqueline uses the example of the "developer" based on her own experience:

"But if the developer is not 
careful, it is possible to damage the native MC IDE dialogs during 
development." 
and 
"I am working with a stack right now that has 
duplicates like this, and I am seeing lots of misdirection when I have 
my own answer dialog open. It's very important to make sure you supply a 
long stack reference to the copy you really want to save. This isn't 
always obvious to new users."

I would distinguish here between a necessarily careful "developer" who should
know what he is dealing with and who is able to overcome such possible
misdirections and  a "user" who simply wants to use whatever sort of dialog is
provided in a given situation and who does not want to be annoyed by unwarranted
error messages.

To come back to the feedback from Stephen:

> Also the code doesn't recognize "cancel" from file dialogs -- deletes image

> and there is no "cancel" button on a couple of the dialogs.  The 
> dialog for amount of 'tile routine' effect for one.

You are right here. Using "cancel" when importing an image deletes the existing
image. I have already fixed that and will upload a new stack the next days.

I am not so sure about a "cancel" button when choosing a width for the tile
routines. Once you have decided on a tile border routine, why would you want to
cancel selecting one of the width options? And there is the "reset image" button
which can reset the tile image to its original state.
On the other side it surely would not hurt to add a "cancel" option to the
tile-routines dialogs.

So, thanks again for your feedback and appreciation and go on enjoying the stack
if you find the time.

Best regards,

Wilhelm Sanke



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Re: Sticking an image to the cursor

[Chipp Walters]

Hi Bernd,

Your stack looks great and works with the exception if you start
moving the pink square over the yellow square, it drops the pink
square and picks up the yellow square.

So, just change in the mouseEnter, the first line to now read:

if the short name of the target contains"puzzlePiece" and
lCurrentPieceDragged is empty  then

best,
Chipp
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Re: Conflict between the Rev 'backdrop' and OSX 'Spaces'?

[Sarah Reichelt]

On Mon, Oct 13, 2008 at 6:25 AM, Graham Samuel <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> On OSX Leopard there is a feature called 'spaces' which allows one to divide
> applications into sets, and then switch between the sets (spaces) so that
> only the windows of the current set are shown. This can be useful, and I'm
> employing it while doing Rev development. However I've come across a snag
> and I want to know whether others consider this a bug in Rev or not.
>
> The app I'm developing in Rev sets a backdrop, and I'm currently testing the
> startup routines of the app so that the command to do this is invoked early
> on. This works fine, in that the backdrop appears behind all the relevant
> Rev windows (both the ones I've created and the ones coming from the IDE and
> from GLX2). However if I switch to another 'space' in OSX, perhaps to look
> at my email or whatever, when I switch back, the backdrop covers all my Rev
> windows. The rev menu bar is still showing, but if I choose one of my stacks
> from the 'Window' menu, it doesn't appear. Fortunately I can use the menu
> bar to call up the message box, which does appear, and I can manually set
> the backdrop to 'none', so that all my windows reappear. I can then use the
> message box to set the backdrop back to black and it reappears in its
> rightful place behind all my windows.
>
>  I have seen other anomalies with Spaces, such as an application menu
> appearing while the document which it has opened remains invisible, so one
> might see this as a problem with the Mac and not with Rev.
>
> I will carry out more tests, but meanwhile, has anyone else seen this - and
> does anyone think that it will affect my eventual standalone on OSX?
> Obviously this isn't something I want my users to experience.

I don't usually use the backdrop but I use Spaces all the time and I
can confirm what you are seeing with OS X 10.5.5 and Rev 3.0.0

It looks like a bug too me so I reckon you should file a report. I
thought a possible workaround might be to hide the backdrop when the
app was suspended and set it again on resume, but in my tests, the
suspend and resume messages are not being sent.
This would appear to be another bug which I will check out now and
report if it has not already been reported.

Cheers,
Sarah
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Re: Conflict between the Rev 'backdrop' and OSX 'Spaces'?

[Sarah Reichelt]

> It looks like a bug too me so I reckon you should file a report. I
> thought a possible workaround might be to hide the backdrop when the
> app was suspended and set it again on resume, but in my tests, the
> suspend and resume messages are not being sent.
> This would appear to be another bug which I will check out now and
> report if it has not already been reported.

The disappearing suspend & resume handlers is a GLX2 bug, not a Rev
bug, so I will report it to Jerry. This means that my suggested
workaround might be fine.

Sarah
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Re: openSockets strangeness

[Alex Tweedly]

Russell Martin wrote:

Hi. I've been playing around with sockets. I'm attempting to create a stack 
than can run shell commands on OS X so that I can get a multi-threaded effect.

I've never used sockets before, so after, digging through the chat example 
stack, I dug right in.

I'm finding some odd behavior that I'm hoping someone out there can shed some 
light on.
  
Question #2:


If my listening stack is open and the connection is made, then while the 
connection is up, calling the openSockets funtion returns 3 lines such as the 
following:
  10261
  127.0.0.1:10261
  127.0.0.1:57219

Does anyone have any idea why it isn't simply:
  127.0.0.1:10261

What are those 10261 and 127.0.0.1:57xxx lines all about? Does the IDE use that 
57xxx (I've noticed that it is so far in the 57000 range) for it's own purposes?

  
This is basically because you are running both the listener (or 
'server') stack and the other one within the IDE, so you have a single 
set of sockets for all running stacks. This can be confusing (and can be 
downright  annoying, if for instance one of your stack does a resetAll 
it will close all the sockets).  I found it useful to either use two 
machines, or to build a standalone for one of the stacks, and run the 
other within the IDE (or you may be able to run both Rev and MC IDEs at 
same time to gt the same benefit).


So that's why you see both 10261 (one stack has done an 'accept' on this 
port) and 120.0.0.1:10261 (the other stack has done a copnnect on this). 
The third open socket (127.0.0.1:57219) has been opened for you by the 
'accept' command, and is the socket identifier you would use to 
communicate from the listener back to the other process. See the 
Dictionary on the 'accept' command, specifically



Comments:

When a connection is made or a datagram is received, the accept 
command creates a new socket that can be used to communicate with the 
other system (or process).

-- Alex.
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Re: landscape printing on Windows

[Sarah Reichelt]

>> On XP I'm trying to print a card that contains a background image and
>> some fields. So far, no joy. Here is my approach. What am I missing?
>>
> I was hoping someone who actually knows what they are doing would reply to
> this, but since they haven't, this is what I do:
>
> on mouseUp
>  set the printPaperOrientation to "landscape"
>  print this card  from 10,10 to 800,455 into 100,100,800,600
> end mouseUp
>
> And it seems to work.  The fonts are not quite all I could wish for, a
> different problem, but it does work. Hope it helps.


Would the font problem be fixed by setting the formatForPrinting of
your stack to true?
Checking the docs for this property, it is a Windows only setting that
tells the system whether to use printer fonts or screen fonts, so it
might be the answer in this case.

Cheers,
Sarah
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Re: "Seamless Tiles Generator 2" updated

[-= JB =-]

Thank you very much Wilhelm.

-=>JB<=-



On Oct 12, 2008, at 11:36 AM, Wilhelm Sanke, FB01 wrote:


-= JB =- sundown at pacifier.com wrote:


I have only been using Revolution for less than a year now and before
that I used hyperCard.  I know about MetaCard but I thought it was
replaced by Rev.  So where do I get the MetaCard IDE and after I
get it how do I install it properly?


I have noticed others on the list mention they use MetaCard too.   
Will

someone please explain why people use MetaCard even though they
keep using the latest version of Rev.



thanks,
-=>JB<=-


Hi -=>JB<=-,

as you asked on this list, I'll give a short reply here:

The proper place to get information about and discuss the MC IDE  
("an open
source alternative development environment for Revolution's  
programming

language") are two lists, one of which is indeed maintained by RunRev.

You find the free archives of the Metacard list under

 and can subscribe to  
this list

(costfree) at
.

Then there is a Yahoo list



where you can get the different versions of and help for the MC IDE  
in the

"files" section.

The chairman of the MC-user group as a subgroup of Revolution users  
is Klaus
Major, whom you will have surely noticed on this use-revolution  
list. Formerly,

Richard Gaskin filled this important position.

It should be duly noted that the MC-IDE users thankfully  
acknowledge that the
Revolution team maintain the compatibility of new Rev engines with  
the MC IDE. I
think this was part of the parcel negotiated at the time when  
Revolution

purchased the Metacard engine.

I use both IDEs when developing, with a preference for the MC IDE.  
I personally
get a much better workflow with MC. If you are interested, you  
could discuss

details offlist or on the Metacard list.

Best regards,

Wilhelm Sanke



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Re: openSockets strangeness

[Björnke von Gierke]

I can't really help on the first of your questions, but maybe it is  
this: The open socket message will do what you want, namely open a  
socket. The computer on the other end (or your own when you use  
localhost as in your examples), will then either:

1. reject it (at which point you'll get a notice)
2. just silently do nothing about it, which is far more often (prolly  
so to not give away too much info)

3. accept it

 So often you'll only get a socket error when you actually try to do  
something, and then the client (your stack) realises that it can't  
send anything trough. At least that's my experience with chatrev.



For the second question about all the open sockets:


10261


This is the server, that you have started with the "accept connections  
on port 10261" line in your script. If you want to stop accepting  
sockets altogether, you'll need to "close socket 10261".



127.0.0.1:10261


this is your client's socket, to communicate trough it with the  
server, you'll send messages to that one. You can also close it to end  
communication.



 127.0.0.1:57219



This is most likely the connectionfrom your server to your client. I  
say "most likely", because it should have a pipe ("|") and a  
connection id after that, as per the documentation of the "accept"  
command. If you want to send stuff to your client from your server,  
then this is the socket you'll want. the server can close this, to  
stop communication with that particular client (of course the client  
can simply reconnect).


Note that, if you'd only have a client running in the same  
application, it would be what you asked for, only the  
"127.0.0.1:10261" one. Developing the server and the client in the  
same ide has advantages, but this is certainly confusing at first  
(resetAll is your friend when strange sockets hang around).



--

official ChatRev page:
http://bjoernke.com/runrev/chatrev.php

Chat with other RunRev developers:
go stack URL "http://bjoernke.com/stacks/chatrev/chatrev1.3b3.rev";

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Conflict between the Rev 'backdrop' and OSX 'Spaces'?

[Graham Samuel]

On OSX Leopard there is a feature called 'spaces' which allows one to  
divide applications into sets, and then switch between the sets  
(spaces) so that only the windows of the current set are shown. This  
can be useful, and I'm employing it while doing Rev development.  
However I've come across a snag and I want to know whether others  
consider this a bug in Rev or not.


The app I'm developing in Rev sets a backdrop, and I'm currently  
testing the startup routines of the app so that the command to do this  
is invoked early on. This works fine, in that the backdrop appears  
behind all the relevant Rev windows (both the ones I've created and  
the ones coming from the IDE and from GLX2). However if I switch to  
another 'space' in OSX, perhaps to look at my email or whatever, when  
I switch back, the backdrop covers all my Rev windows. The rev menu  
bar is still showing, but if I choose one of my stacks from the  
'Window' menu, it doesn't appear. Fortunately I can use the menu bar  
to call up the message box, which does appear, and I can manually set  
the backdrop to 'none', so that all my windows reappear. I can then  
use the message box to set the backdrop back to black and it reappears  
in its rightful place behind all my windows.


 I have seen other anomalies with Spaces, such as an application menu  
appearing while the document which it has opened remains invisible, so  
one might see this as a problem with the Mac and not with Rev.


I will carry out more tests, but meanwhile, has anyone else seen this  
- and does anyone think that it will affect my eventual standalone on  
OSX? Obviously this isn't something I want my users to experience.


Graham
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openSockets strangeness

[Russell Martin]

Hi. I've been playing around with sockets. I'm attempting to create a stack 
than can run shell commands on OS X so that I can get a multi-threaded effect.

I've never used sockets before, so after, digging through the chat example 
stack, I dug right in.

I'm finding some odd behavior that I'm hoping someone out there can shed some 
light on.

Question #1
===
The first thing I discovered, was that when I attempt to open the connection as 
follows:
  open socket to "127.0.0.1:10261" with message socketConnected

The socketConnected handler gets triggered, even if the listening stack isn't 
open and listening. Also, unless I put a "wait" line in the socketConnected 
handler, calling the openSockets function returns:
  127.0.0.1:10261

This happens even though the socket didn't really get connected. Now, if I put 
even a 1 millisecond wait in the socketConnected handler:
  wait 1 millisecond

then calling "the openSockets" returns empty (as it should).

But, shouldn't my socketError handler have gotten triggered instead?

Question #2:

If my listening stack is open and the connection is made, then while the 
connection is up, calling the openSockets funtion returns 3 lines such as the 
following:
  10261
  127.0.0.1:10261
  127.0.0.1:57219

Does anyone have any idea why it isn't simply:
  127.0.0.1:10261

What are those 10261 and 127.0.0.1:57xxx lines all about? Does the IDE use that 
57xxx (I've noticed that it is so far in the 57000 range) for it's own purposes?

Note: all of the described behavior is happening in the 3.0 IDE running on OS X 
10.5.5.

Thanks in advance for any insight or ideas. :-]


  
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Re: "Seamless Tiles Generator 2" updated

[-= JB =-]

Jacque you always provide so much,  thank you.

-=>JB<=-



On Oct 12, 2008, at 11:07 AM, J. Landman Gay wrote:


-= JB =- wrote:

I have only been using Revolution for less than a year now and before
that I used hyperCard.  I know about MetaCard but I thought it was
replaced by Rev.  So where do I get the MetaCard IDE and after I
get it how do I install it properly?


You can download the MC IDE setup stack, and it will download the  
latest IDE for you and install your copy of the Rev engine into it:




The process is all automated. I suggest including the Rev  
dictionary option at the bottom of the setup card, since the native  
MC dictionary is years out of date.


I have noticed others on the list mention they use MetaCard too.   
Will

someone please explain why people use MetaCard even though they
keep using the latest version of Rev.


MC IDE is just a very stripped-down set of stacks that allow a  
different way of working with the engine. The primary difference is  
that the IDE is very minimal -- for example, there is no user  
interface for most of the properties you see in Rev's property  
inspector. Instead, a minimal property inspector lets you set the  
most-used properties, but for others you need to know they exist  
and use the message box to set them (or install a third-party or  
original property inspector of your own.) The object browser offers  
less functionality than the application browser in Rev -- it shows  
only the current card objects (but on the other hand, that's  
usually all I'm interested in.) There is no interface at all for  
many things, such as removing a substack, deleting a stack from  
RAM, most preferences, etc. For these things you use the message  
box and you must know the commands. You can write your own plugins  
to do what some of the Rev IDE does if you like. All the MC IDE  
stacks are similarly terse. They expect that you already know the  
capabilities of the engine and are comfortable working with the  
command line. The engine was originally written for Linux/Unix and  
the MC IDE reflects this level of comfort.


I frequently work in both IDEs depending on the stack I'm working  
with. For example, Rev tracks when a field has changed and puts up  
its "do you want to save" dialog if you change any text in a field.  
MC IDE does not. For those stacks that routinely change text  
temporarily in a field, I always launch MC because I don't want the  
interruption of dismissing the spurious dialog. (I have a small  
word processing stack, for example, that works with text files. I  
don't want the actual word processing stack marked as "dirty" just  
because I typed temporary text into the main field.)


While the disadvantage (or maybe it's an advantage) is that you  
need to have a good grasp of what the engine can do and the UI is  
minimal, the advantages are that there is almost no interference  
from the IDE at all. A tiny frontscript and a small backscript are  
the only insertions. The IDE does not get in the way, and you can  
be fairly certain that if you see a bug in the MC IDE it is more  
likely to be an engine bug than an IDE problem. The freedom to do  
what you want without interference is much greater in the MC IDE,  
with the caveat that with freedom comes responsibility -- you can  
more easily lose your work or wreck the stack because the  
protections that the Rev IDE offers aren't there.


For my workflow, there are advantages to both IDEs and I switch  
frequently between them.


--
Jacqueline Landman Gay | [EMAIL PROTECTED]
HyperActive Software   | http://www.hyperactivesw.com
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RE: iPhone again

[Lynn Fredricks]

> 3. Develop something that is so far outside Apple's interests 
> that there would be no way they would even consider going there.
 
Yes - but unless what you are producing is very vertical market, its very
hard to guess what area they may suddenly go into.

> 4. Develop for in-house use.
> 
> I plan to do 1 & 3 but also mainly 4. Meanwhile, I have some 
> Rev apps producing static web pages customized to normal 
> browsers or the iPhone and a Rev cgi server producing dynamic 
> pages, again specifically designed to display well on the iPhone.

Apple reps have strongly emphasized that implementing a pure web solution is
the least trouble. It makes a lot of sense to me to go this route unless
there's some major performance issue, like creating a game that requires
some sort of local acceleration.

> My favourite so far is a portable instrument display. We have 
> various instruments that are read by a Mac which calibrates 
> the raw data and stores & serves it for any app that needs 
> it. Using any browser (iPhone or computer), anyone on the LAN 
> can connect to a certain web address, select one of these 
> instruments and get a real-time, constantly updating display 
> of this instrument's current value, in full screen on the 
> iPhone. It is very cool to be perched on the top of a ladder, 
> a long way away from any computer, filling a large tank while 
> watching it's current volume being displayed in the palm of your
> hand:-)

I think that's an awesome use :-) Real time data acquisition and monitoring
and smart phones really go well together.

I don't have an iPhone yet, myself, but I can see a lot of value in creating
server monitoring applications with push alerts of some kind.

Best regards,

Lynn Fredricks
President
Paradigma Software
http://www.paradigmasoft.com

Valentina SQL Server: The Ultra-fast, Royalty Free Database Server 

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Re: "Seamless Tiles Generator 2" updated

[J. Landman Gay]

Wilhelm Sanke, FB01 wrote:


One of the already known issues is the unfriendliness of the Rev IDE towards
customized answer and ask dialogs. 


I'll play "devil's advocate" here for a moment. The warning about 
duplicate stacks does not include only the answer and ask dialogs; it 
also includes any stack with the same name as one already open. The MC 
IDE, like Rev, also warns of duplicate stacks, with the exception that 
it ignores the answer and ask duplications. But if the developer is not 
careful, it is possible to damage the native MC IDE dialogs during 
development.


Revolution used to ignore these duplications too, but changed the IDE a 
few years ago. I suspect there were too many accidents.



On the other hand the Rev IDE is  "over-protective" in some respects (and for
reasons that escape me) and does not like such customized dialogs.
Take a look at the script of btn "revfrontscript" of stack "revlibrary" which is
inserted as a frontscript for the Rev IDE and comment out lines 992 to 1006 in
handler "revCheckStackCollision". This will stop the complaint about the answer
dialog and otherwise will have no effects on how the Rev IDE will function.


If the user has custom ask and answer dialogs, and does not receive a 
warning about them, it is easy to inadvertently change the wrong stack, 
the one in the IDE. I am working with a stack right now that has 
duplicates like this, and I am seeing lots of misdirection when I have 
my own answer dialog open. It's very important to make sure you supply a 
long stack reference to the copy you really want to save. This isn't 
always obvious to new users.




Alternatively it would be a good choice to get the Metacard IDE and just place
the latest Rev engine into it. Most - if not all - of your problems will then
disappear.


From a personal perspective I have to agree with this. When I want a 
streamlined, no-nonsense interface, I use the MC IDE. But since the 
majority of Rev users aren't as comfortable with the command line, and 
many are still learning the capabilities and language syntax of 
Revolution, I don't think this is a good answer for many users. The Rev 
IDE is much friendlier to new users than the MC IDE. Many users have 
never switched their preferences to show the language syntax in Rev's 
property inspector, and aren't even aware of the native syntax for 
properties. These users would have a difficult learning curve if they 
changed to the MC IDE where they need to type in these property names 
and other commands. (On the other hand, they'd learn it pretty quickly 
if they did.)




Another annoyance is the fact that with version 3 of the Rev IDE the blue stack
"Rev Centre" keeps popping up all the time after a customized answer or ask
dialog has finished the execution of its script. I have not yet found out from
where this annoyance originates. Same recommendation as above: Get the Metacard
IDE.-


This can be turned off in the General pane of Rev's preferences (last 
option at the bottom.)




And: I hope the mail service of our server will now work properly. I saw that
even my post about "Twofold posting of mail" was sent twice.


Seems to be fixed, I've only seen one copy of your post. :)

Like I said, I'm playing devil's advocate here. I use the MC IDE for 
lots of things. I see advantages to both, but I am not convinced the MC 
IDE is as good for very new users.


--
Jacqueline Landman Gay | [EMAIL PROTECTED]
HyperActive Software   | http://www.hyperactivesw.com
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Re: "Seamless Tiles Generator 2" updated

[Wilhelm Sanke, FB01]

-= JB =- sundown at pacifier.com wrote:

> I have only been using Revolution for less than a year now and before
> that I used hyperCard.  I know about MetaCard but I thought it was
> replaced by Rev.  So where do I get the MetaCard IDE and after I
> get it how do I install it properly?

> I have noticed others on the list mention they use MetaCard too.  Will
> someone please explain why people use MetaCard even though they
> keep using the latest version of Rev.

> thanks,
> -=>JB<=-

Hi -=>JB<=-,

as you asked on this list, I'll give a short reply here:

The proper place to get information about and discuss the MC IDE ("an open
source alternative development environment for Revolution's programming
language") are two lists, one of which is indeed maintained by RunRev.

You find the free archives of the Metacard list under

 and can subscribe to this list
(costfree) at
.

Then there is a Yahoo list



where you can get the different versions of and help for the MC IDE in the
"files" section.

The chairman of the MC-user group as a subgroup of Revolution users is Klaus
Major, whom you will have surely noticed on this use-revolution list. Formerly,
Richard Gaskin filled this important position.

It should be duly noted that the MC-IDE users thankfully acknowledge that the
Revolution team maintain the compatibility of new Rev engines with the MC IDE. I
think this was part of the parcel negotiated at the time when Revolution
purchased the Metacard engine.

I use both IDEs when developing, with a preference for the MC IDE. I personally
get a much better workflow with MC. If you are interested, you could discuss
details offlist or on the Metacard list.

Best regards,

Wilhelm Sanke



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Re: Sticking an image to the cursor

[Sue Smith]

You guys are great! Thanks so much for all of your suggestions. Every single 
one provided a way to accomplish this. I can tell that in my "free time" I need 
to really look hard at both custom properties and local variables. Thanks again!

--- On Sat, 10/11/08, Sue Smith <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
From: Sue Smith <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: Sticking an image to the cursor
To: "How to use Revolution" 
Date: Saturday, October 11, 2008, 10:37 AM

I did, but it only works with mouseDown. I need it to work on the mouseEnter
handler. I am developing (freeware) for children with disabilities - so many are
unable to click the mouse button, let alone keep it held down.

Thanks!


--- On Sat, 10/11/08, Klaus Major <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

> From: Klaus Major <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> Subject: Re: Sticking an image to the cursor
> To: "How to use Revolution"

> Date: Saturday, October 11, 2008, 9:00 AM
> Hi Sue,
> 
> > Is is possible for an image to smoothly
> "stick" onto the cursor? I  
> > am working on a jigsaw puzzle for children. I know
> that I can set  
> > the image to the mouse location, but it is very choppy
> and and the  
> > image will drop if the user accelerates mouse speed
> and it can't  
> > leep up.
> >
> > Thanks in advance!
> 
> did you try the "grab" command?
> That may be the solution for you.
> 
> Put this into the script of your jigsaw image(s)
> 
> on mousedown
>grab me
> end mousedown
> 
> That's all to make  "stick" onto the cursor> :-)
> 
> 
> Best
> 
> Klaus Major
> [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> http://www.major-k.de
> 
> 
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Re: "Seamless Tiles Generator 2" updated

[Stephen Barncard]

I would very much like to know what kind of error dialog you get and which
operations could not be cancelled.


as I said, the IDE doesn't like the imbedded substack with the name 
Answer Dialog.

The custom dialog just needs another name.  The support code is trivial.

Also the code doesn't recognize "cancel" from file dialogs -- deletes image

and there is no "cancel" button on a couple of the dialogs.  The 
dialog for amount of 'tile routine' effect for one.


 I'd rather not hack the IDE to bypass what to me looks like a 
valuable protection mechanism. Rev  demands control of its namespaces 
at this time, and I just avoid them entirely. Someday, Namespaces!
Also hacking the IDE is impractical for me, as I adopt the latest 
betas and updates as they come out the hopper. And I'm sure many of 
you like the good old Metacard IDE, but it didn't speak to me.


again, thanks for your work.





One of the already known issues is the unfriendliness of the Rev IDE towards
customized answer and ask dialogs.
On the one hand among the (once) praised features of Metacard and 
Revolution was


--


stephen barncard
s a n  f r a n c i s c o
- - -  - - - - - - - - -



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Re: "Seamless Tiles Generator 2" updated

[J. Landman Gay]

-= JB =- wrote:

I have only been using Revolution for less than a year now and before
that I used hyperCard.  I know about MetaCard but I thought it was
replaced by Rev.  So where do I get the MetaCard IDE and after I
get it how do I install it properly?


You can download the MC IDE setup stack, and it will download the latest 
IDE for you and install your copy of the Rev engine into it:




The process is all automated. I suggest including the Rev dictionary 
option at the bottom of the setup card, since the native MC dictionary 
is years out of date.




I have noticed others on the list mention they use MetaCard too.  Will
someone please explain why people use MetaCard even though they
keep using the latest version of Rev.


MC IDE is just a very stripped-down set of stacks that allow a different 
way of working with the engine. The primary difference is that the IDE 
is very minimal -- for example, there is no user interface for most of 
the properties you see in Rev's property inspector. Instead, a minimal 
property inspector lets you set the most-used properties, but for others 
you need to know they exist and use the message box to set them (or 
install a third-party or original property inspector of your own.) The 
object browser offers less functionality than the application browser in 
Rev -- it shows only the current card objects (but on the other hand, 
that's usually all I'm interested in.) There is no interface at all for 
many things, such as removing a substack, deleting a stack from RAM, 
most preferences, etc. For these things you use the message box and you 
must know the commands. You can write your own plugins to do what some 
of the Rev IDE does if you like. All the MC IDE stacks are similarly 
terse. They expect that you already know the capabilities of the engine 
and are comfortable working with the command line. The engine was 
originally written for Linux/Unix and the MC IDE reflects this level of 
comfort.


I frequently work in both IDEs depending on the stack I'm working with. 
For example, Rev tracks when a field has changed and puts up its "do you 
want to save" dialog if you change any text in a field. MC IDE does not. 
For those stacks that routinely change text temporarily in a field, I 
always launch MC because I don't want the interruption of dismissing the 
spurious dialog. (I have a small word processing stack, for example, 
that works with text files. I don't want the actual word processing 
stack marked as "dirty" just because I typed temporary text into the 
main field.)


While the disadvantage (or maybe it's an advantage) is that you need to 
have a good grasp of what the engine can do and the UI is minimal, the 
advantages are that there is almost no interference from the IDE at all. 
A tiny frontscript and a small backscript are the only insertions. The 
IDE does not get in the way, and you can be fairly certain that if you 
see a bug in the MC IDE it is more likely to be an engine bug than an 
IDE problem. The freedom to do what you want without interference is 
much greater in the MC IDE, with the caveat that with freedom comes 
responsibility -- you can more easily lose your work or wreck the stack 
because the protections that the Rev IDE offers aren't there.


For my workflow, there are advantages to both IDEs and I switch 
frequently between them.


--
Jacqueline Landman Gay | [EMAIL PROTECTED]
HyperActive Software   | http://www.hyperactivesw.com
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Re: landscape printing on Windows

[Phil Davis]

Thanks Peter - I'll try your suggestion later today.
Phil

Peter Alcibiades wrote:


Phil Davis-5 wrote:
  
On XP I'm trying to print a card that contains a background image and 
some fields. So far, no joy. Here is my approach. What am I missing?






I was hoping someone who actually knows what they are doing would reply to
this, but since they haven't, this is what I do:

on mouseUp
  set the printPaperOrientation to "landscape"
  print this card  from 10,10 to 800,455 into 100,100,800,600
end mouseUp

And it seems to work.  The fonts are not quite all I could wish for, a
different problem, but it does work. Hope it helps.

Peter
  


--
Phil Davis

PDS Labs
Professional Software Development
http://pdslabs.net

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Re: landscape printing on Windows

[Peter Alcibiades]

Phil Davis-5 wrote:
> 
> On XP I'm trying to print a card that contains a background image and 
> some fields. So far, no joy. Here is my approach. What am I missing?
> 
> 

I was hoping someone who actually knows what they are doing would reply to
this, but since they haven't, this is what I do:

on mouseUp
  set the printPaperOrientation to "landscape"
  print this card  from 10,10 to 800,455 into 100,100,800,600
end mouseUp

And it seems to work.  The fonts are not quite all I could wish for, a
different problem, but it does work. Hope it helps.

Peter
-- 
View this message in context: 
http://www.nabble.com/landscape-printing-on-Windows-tp19936449p19941826.html
Sent from the Revolution - User mailing list archive at Nabble.com.

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Re: iPhone again

[Sarah Reichelt]

> It seems to me that to approach iPhone development confidently you need to
> either:
>
> 1. Develop something that isnt your core revenue generator and accept the
> risk, or
>
> 2. Have a relationship with Apple that gives you the confidence you need to
> move forward

Or

3. Develop something that is so far outside Apple's interests that
there would be no way they would even consider going there.

4. Develop for in-house use.

I plan to do 1 & 3 but also mainly 4. Meanwhile, I have some Rev apps
producing static web pages customized to normal browsers or the iPhone
and a Rev cgi server producing dynamic pages, again specifically
designed to display well on the iPhone.

My favourite so far is a portable instrument display. We have various
instruments that are read by a Mac which calibrates the raw data and
stores & serves it for any app that needs it. Using any browser
(iPhone or computer), anyone on the LAN can connect to a certain web
address, select one of these instruments and get a real-time,
constantly updating display of this instrument's current value, in
full screen on the iPhone. It is very cool to be perched on the top of
a ladder, a long way away from any computer, filling a large tank
while watching it's current volume being displayed in the palm of your
hand:-)

Cheers,
Sarah
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Re: "Seamless Tiles Generator 2" updated

[-= JB =-]

I have only been using Revolution for less than a year now and before
that I used hyperCard.  I know about MetaCard but I thought it was
replaced by Rev.  So where do I get the MetaCard IDE and after I
get it how do I install it properly?

I have noticed others on the list mention they use MetaCard too.  Will
someone please explain why people use MetaCard even though they
keep using the latest version of Rev.

thanks,
-=>JB<=-



On Oct 12, 2008, at 3:47 AM, Wilhelm Sanke, FB01 wrote:


Many thanks for your comments.

-= JB =- sundown at pacifier.com wrote:


That is a nice stack.  Thank you.  I do get a few error dialogs.  I
even get one
when it first starts but I select ignore and the stack works.


 and Stephen Barncard stephenREVOLUTION2 at barncard.com wrote  
(using "Twofold

posting of mail" as the subject):


The stack is awesome! I've spent several hours with it...



One note: no way to cancel out of some operations and the IDE was
complaining about an Answer Dialog already existing...



but it's wonderful. Lots of lessons here.


I would very much like to know what kind of error dialog you get  
and which

operations could not be cancelled.

One of the already known issues is the unfriendliness of the Rev  
IDE towards

customized answer and ask dialogs.
On the one hand among the (once) praised features of Metacard and  
Revolution was
the possibility to adapt even elements of the IDE to your specific  
needs; since
long I prefer to embed my own dialogs into my stacks, because I  
need the option
to place them anywhere on the stack or the screen and I do not like  
the far

oversized widths of the dialogs Rev offers.
On the other hand the Rev IDE is  "over-protective" in some  
respects (and for

reasons that escape me) and does not like such customized dialogs.
Take a look at the script of btn "revfrontscript" of stack  
"revlibrary" which is
inserted as a frontscript for the Rev IDE and comment out lines 992  
to 1006 in
handler "revCheckStackCollision". This will stop the complaint  
about the answer
dialog and otherwise will have no effects on how the Rev IDE will  
function.


Alternatively it would be a good choice to get the Metacard IDE and  
just place
the latest Rev engine into it. Most - if not all - of your problems  
will then

disappear.

Another annoyance is the fact that with version 3 of the Rev IDE  
the blue stack
"Rev Centre" keeps popping up all the time after a customized  
answer or ask
dialog has finished the execution of its script. I have not yet  
found out from
where this annoyance originates. Same recommendation as above: Get  
the Metacard

IDE.-

And: I hope the mail service of our server will now work properly.  
I saw that

even my post about "Twofold posting of mail" was sent twice.

Best regards,


Wilhelm Sanke



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Re: Sticking an image to the cursor

[BNig]

Chipp Walters wrote:
> 
> And if you want to do it outside a mouseDown, then replace mouseDown
> with mouseEnter...

thanks Chipp, I took your advice and script and made a little demo stack and
put it on revonline, the username is berndniggemann, the stack is
"puzzlepiece2" so Sue can take it apart.

regards
bernd
-- 
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http://www.nabble.com/Sticking-an-image-to-the-cursor-tp19934277p19940585.html
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Re: "Seamless Tiles Generator 2" updated

[Wilhelm Sanke, FB01]

Many thanks for your comments.

-= JB =- sundown at pacifier.com wrote:

> That is a nice stack.  Thank you.  I do get a few error dialogs.  I  
> even get one
> when it first starts but I select ignore and the stack works.

 and Stephen Barncard stephenREVOLUTION2 at barncard.com wrote (using "Twofold
posting of mail" as the subject):

> The stack is awesome! I've spent several hours with it...

> One note: no way to cancel out of some operations and the IDE was 
> complaining about an Answer Dialog already existing...

> but it's wonderful. Lots of lessons here.

I would very much like to know what kind of error dialog you get and which
operations could not be cancelled.

One of the already known issues is the unfriendliness of the Rev IDE towards
customized answer and ask dialogs. 
On the one hand among the (once) praised features of Metacard and Revolution was
the possibility to adapt even elements of the IDE to your specific needs; since
long I prefer to embed my own dialogs into my stacks, because I need the option
to place them anywhere on the stack or the screen and I do not like the far
oversized widths of the dialogs Rev offers.
On the other hand the Rev IDE is  "over-protective" in some respects (and for
reasons that escape me) and does not like such customized dialogs.
Take a look at the script of btn "revfrontscript" of stack "revlibrary" which is
inserted as a frontscript for the Rev IDE and comment out lines 992 to 1006 in
handler "revCheckStackCollision". This will stop the complaint about the answer
dialog and otherwise will have no effects on how the Rev IDE will function.

Alternatively it would be a good choice to get the Metacard IDE and just place
the latest Rev engine into it. Most - if not all - of your problems will then
disappear.

Another annoyance is the fact that with version 3 of the Rev IDE the blue stack
"Rev Centre" keeps popping up all the time after a customized answer or ask
dialog has finished the execution of its script. I have not yet found out from
where this annoyance originates. Same recommendation as above: Get the Metacard
IDE.-

And: I hope the mail service of our server will now work properly. I saw that
even my post about "Twofold posting of mail" was sent twice.

Best regards,


Wilhelm Sanke



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Re: ANN: "Seamless Tiles Generator 2" updated

[-= JB =-]

Hi Wilhelm,

That is a nice stack.  Thank you.  I do get a few error dialogs.  I  
even get one

when it first starts but I select ignore and the stack works.

Thanks again for posting it.

-=>JB<=-



On Oct 11, 2008, at 11:54 AM, Wilhelm Sanke, FB01 wrote:

 Just uploaded a slightly updated version of the "Seamless Tiles  
Generator 2" to




See the descriptions on page "Sample Stacks" on my website
.

Among other things this stack features an improved resizable and  
draggable
selection graphic that lets you choose a segment of any size from  
the imported

source image  to create a seamless tile.

The ink of the selection graphic needed to be adapted both to the  
differences

between Windows and MacOS and the stackfileversions 2.4 and 2.7.

With engine versions < 2.7 we need "admin" for MacOS and "srcAnd"  
for Windows.
For engine versions  2.7 and higher "srccopy" is necessary for both  
platforms to

show a transparent graphic.

Moreover, I have changed the stack extension from "*.mc" to  
"*.rev", to enable

users of Rev 3.0 gm 3 to see and load the stack.

See the quote of my earlier post (to the Metacard- and Improve- 
lists) concerning

 this special problem:


Strange change of file associations with Rev 3-gm-3 engine

Wilhelm Sanke
Sat, 20 Sep 2008 11:59:50 -0700
Rev engine 3-gm-2 displays both *.rev and *.mc-files in the "open  
stack"
dialog as "Revolution stacks". Engine 3-gm-3 restricts the  
displayed stacks to
files with the "*.rev" extension; even when you choose "All files"  
the display
of mc-files is suppressed, but other files like dlls and txt files  
are shown.
It is even impossible to enforce the display of mc-files by typing  
"*.mc" into
the file name box of the open stack dialog. Putting the  
Revolution.exe engine
3-gm-3 into the Metacard IDE shows the same restrictions: No mc- 
files are
displayed. However, when you rename "Revolution.exe" to "MC.exe",  
both
"Revolution stack"-files "rev" and "mc" are displayed in the "open  
stack"
dialog - like before in gm-2 with "Revolution.exe". This holds for  
both IDEs,
the Revolution and the Metacard IDE. The consequence for users  
that primarily
work with the Rev IDE - but wish to access Metacard files once in  
a while -
would be to rename their Rev engine to "MC.exe". This works fine  
within the Rev

IDE.



--
Wilhelm Sanke



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