Re: Copying binary files over a LAN using Rev

[Phil Davis]

First I assume each stack is running in its own execution session on the 
respective machines - both stacks are not running under the same copy of 
the engine on one machine. If that were true, both stacks would be 
running on the same machine, no?


Given the above, I can think of 2 ways.

1) Set up a socket connection between the two stacks and write a TCP 
data stream from one to the other. If you do this, it might be a good 
idea to base64Encode the data before transferring it. And it would help 
the receiving machine know what to expect if line 1 of the data contains 
only a number which tells the total number of chars being transferred in 
lines 2 to the end of the data. Then the receiving computer can read the 
socket for 1 line, and then read for  chars. When the 
data has been transferred, the receiving machine can base64Decode it and 
put it into url "binfile:". I believe that should work.


2) Open a socket connection between the two and transfer only a URL. 
Then the receiving machine could grab the file by its URL (that sounds 
painful!) and copy it over. This assumes the file whose URL was passed 
is sitting in a place on the sending machine that is accessible to the 
receiving one.


3) I bet there are other ways.

Hope this helps -
Phil Davis


On 8/5/10 11:46 AM, Alejandro Tejada wrote:

Hi all,

How could i use Rev to copy a binary file between
stacks opened in two different computers over a
local area network?

In this LAN, every computer reports at least
two different IP directions:
The first IP (reported by IPconfig) are in the
range 192.168.1.[0-255].
The second IP (visible from the web) are in
the range from 201.229.179.[0-255]

Every idea is welcome!
Thanks in advance.

Al

   


--
Phil Davis

PDS Labs
Professional Software Development
http://pdslabs.net

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Re: Rodeo, revServer etc.

[Peter W A Wood]

On 6 Aug 2010, at 09:33, J. Landman Gay wrote:
> I am fairly certain that if you take his computer away for even a few hours, 
> his head will implode.

A neural de-tox. Perfect! ;-)

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Re: Rodeo, revServer etc.

[J. Landman Gay]

On 8/5/10 8:33 PM, J. Landman Gay wrote:

On 8/5/10 7:45 PM, Peter W A Wood wrote:

On 6 Aug 2010, at 01:17, J. Landman Gay wrote:


I know for a fact that at least one of our major players has an
inbox that goes on practically to infinity, and he's unlikely to
even notice anything you send.


I think that buying him a copy of David Allen's Getting Things Done
and taking his computers away from him for a day so that he will read
it would be one of the best investments RunRev could make at this
time. In fact, if RunRev can get him to read it, I'll happily buy the
book for him.


I am fairly certain that if you take his computer away for even a few
hours, his head will implode.



On second thought, he might read it if there's a translation available 
in another language. Is there one in C?


--
Jacqueline Landman Gay | jac...@hyperactivesw.com
HyperActive Software   | http://www.hyperactivesw.com
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Re: Rodeo, revServer etc.

[J. Landman Gay]

On 8/5/10 7:45 PM, Peter W A Wood wrote:

On 6 Aug 2010, at 01:17, J. Landman Gay wrote:


I know for a fact that at least one of our major players has an
inbox that goes on practically to infinity, and he's unlikely to
even notice anything you send.


I think that buying him a copy of David Allen's Getting Things Done
and taking his computers away from him for a day so that he will read
it would be one of the best investments RunRev could make at this
time. In fact, if RunRev can get him to read it, I'll happily buy the
book for him.


I am fairly certain that if you take his computer away for even a few 
hours, his head will implode.


--
Jacqueline Landman Gay | jac...@hyperactivesw.com
HyperActive Software   | http://www.hyperactivesw.com
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Re: Rodeo, revServer etc.

[Andre Garzia]

I should get one of those as well. My inbox has more than three thousand unread 
emails...

Sent from my iPad

On Aug 5, 2010, at 9:45 PM, Peter W A Wood  wrote:

> On 6 Aug 2010, at 01:17, J. Landman Gay wrote:
> 
>> I know for a fact that at least one of our major players has an inbox that 
>> goes on practically to infinity, and he's unlikely to even notice anything 
>> you send.
> 
> I think that buying him a copy of David Allen's Getting Things Done and 
> taking his computers away from him for a day so that he will read it would be 
> one of the best investments RunRev could make at this time. In fact, if 
> RunRev can get him to read it, I'll happily buy the book for him.
> 
> Regards
> 
> Peter___
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Re: A real problem with Prefs!!

[Chipp Walters]

Charles, I will sometimes have a getPrefsFolder() function. Something like:

function getPrefsFolder
   get the effective filename of this stack
   set itemDel to "/"
   delete last item of it
   put "/" & "Prefs" after it
   If there is not a folder it then create folder it
   return it
end getPrefsFolder

HTH
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Re: Rodeo, revServer etc.

[Peter W A Wood]

On 6 Aug 2010, at 01:17, J. Landman Gay wrote:

> I know for a fact that at least one of our major players has an inbox that 
> goes on practically to infinity, and he's unlikely to even notice anything 
> you send.

I think that buying him a copy of David Allen's Getting Things Done and taking 
his computers away from him for a day so that he will read it would be one of 
the best investments RunRev could make at this time. In fact, if RunRev can get 
him to read it, I'll happily buy the book for him.

Regards

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Re: Rodeo, revServer etc.

[Sarah Reichelt]

Hi All,

I would like to thank people for the many messages of support and
encouragement I have received, both on and off-list.
It seems to have been decided that my post was not worthy of
banishment, so I'm still here, although after the recent threads, I
will confine myself to lurking for a while, to give myself time to
recover.

All the best,
Sarah
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Re: revVideoGrabber: stop preview doesn't hide video window

[Richard Miller]

Ben,

We use the video grabber functions extensively in our software, but only 
on PC's (where it runs with adequate stability even for video grabs as 
long as 3-5 minutes). The PC side works much better than the Mac side.


The issue you are running into on a Mac is a known bug. You're not doing 
anything wrong. But I've not found it a problem to use 
revCloseVIdeoGrabber as often as needed (on Mac or PC side)... because 
you are right in saying it is the only way to get rid of the preview 
image on a Mac.


Richard Miller


On 8/5/10 5:39 PM, Ben Rubinstein wrote:

Docs for revStopPreviewingVideo says:
"Stops showing input from a video camera in the video grabber window."
"Use the revStopPreviewingVideo command to stop showing video input."
"When you stop previewing video, the video grabber window shows a 
blank screen."


When I try this (rev 4.0 or later, on MacOS X 10.6) it doesn't show a 
blank screen, instead I'm left with a still of the last frame.  The 
only way to make it go away is to execute revCloseVideoGrabber.


Is this a known bug?  Am I doing something wrong?  Does anyone else 
experience this, or conversely has anyone experience of it working as 
documented?


TIA,

Ben
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Re: [RevServer tips] Spreading the load or why wise developers use asynchronous workflows

[Andre Garzia]

On Thu, Aug 5, 2010 at 6:36 PM, Jeff Massung  wrote:

> On Thu, Aug 5, 2010 at 4:26 PM, Mark Wieder 
> wrote:
>
> > Andre-
> >
> > Wednesday, August 4, 2010, 2:27:19 PM, you wrote:
> >
> > > Let me tell you that I once did something like that by accident on my
> own
> > > test server. I had a recursive process that started spawning itself and
> > > would not quit... in the end I had to reboot the damn vps. Thats why
> > those
> > > limits are important
> >
> > Awww... I've brought down bigger systems than that. Next time we sit
> > down over a beer I'll tell you about the time I found out what the
> > nohup command does...
> >
>
>
> While we're bringing up old "war stories" and measuring lengths...
>
> I have a friend who works for Boeing. Just to give a little physics
> background, satellites are not in perfect orbit; they are continuously
> falling to the Earth and need course correcting every so often.
>
> This one particular satellite used a particular program to course correct
> and the thrust units were measured in thousands (2000, 3000, etc). A new
> hire who was working late got the call for a course correct went to the
> machine, typed in the appropriate thrust amount and which rockets and hit
> enter. Was prompted "are you sure?", hit yes, and bye-bye satellite.
> Un-beknowst to the new guy, the program implicitly did the multiplication
> of
> units for him (he was supposed to enter 2, 3, ...).
>
> Nothing like firing a few hundred million dollars out into space your first
> week on the job, eh? ;-)
>
> Jeff M.
>

Wow, I wish I could ballistically implant a satellite into my government
presidential palace...

Not counting the whole earth orbit thing, I have a similar story, while
being a rookie student at engineering, we were "stationed" at a robotics lab
as the university. We built a mechanical arm and hand that was supposed to
pick a cup of coffee from a table without spilling it and put it into our
robotic waiter (aka motorized skate board).

This was in 1998, we used old 486 and 386 for our spare parts, we did not
have enclosures for those machines, so they usually were naked motherboards
on our tables while we were DOING SCIENCE or something similar.

The arm control software was written in Pascal and for the servo control we
would pass an integer to a function and after a quick sum it would move the
little arm. One very wise guy wondered what would happen if he changed that
+ sign to a * sign... coffee ended up on top of the motherboard as the arm
made a complete turn and manage to hit its own video card with the cup...
not a million dollars loss but a waste of a 386 running minix...

I've learned on that day never ever fiddle with magic numbers in software...
and I was not the one doing the arm thing, I was just watching and exploding
coffeemakers trying to hook them to my serial port.

As they said: "Robotics is the art of combining physics, computer science,
mechanics and large amounts of money into a machine that will gather huge
amounts of information regarding its surroundings and then ignore it and
drive into a wall."



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-- 
http://www.andregarzia.com All We Do Is Code.
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Re: [RevServer tips] Spreading the load or why wise developers use asynchronous workflows

[Mark Wieder]

Bob-

LOL...

...and there's nothing like plugging a *chip* into a socket backwards
and watching it go flying across the room when you turn on the
power...

-- 
-Mark Wieder
 mwie...@ahsoftware.net

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Re: [RevServer tips] Spreading the load or why wise developers use asynchronous workflows

[Jeff Massung]

On Thu, Aug 5, 2010 at 4:54 PM, Bob Sneidar  wrote:

> Eh heh. Sounds a lot like urban legend to me. ;-)
>

Maybe, I'm just passing along the story as it was told to me (my friend does
work at Boeing, although I have to take his word on the story).

Regardless, it makes me chuckle every time I think about it. Yours does as
well.  :-)

Jeff M.
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Re: [RevServer tips] Spreading the load or why wise developers use asynchronous workflows

[Bob Sneidar]

Eh heh. Sounds a lot like urban legend to me. ;-) Ima going to have to look 
that up. Still, not unbelievable. My first day in the fleet I talked a second 
class petty officer into troubleshooting a particularly nasty problem with the 
control console for the "billion" dollar missile radar I was supposed to be 
trained to work on. 

After looking at the signal flow, and determining that the problem had to be on 
a particular card, I said, "We gotta put the card on an extender and check the 
signal here and here." So he got the scope and I pulled the card, inserted the 
extended and plugged the card in. 

We powered up the console, but after about 10 seconds I said, "What's burning?" 
You guessed it. The card I had just plugged into the extender... BACKWARDS! It 
seems that while the card slots were keyed to prevent this very thing, the 
extender cards were not. Opps didn't go over well the next day with the work 
center manager. I didn't get to touch the equipment for the next six months. 

Bob


On Aug 5, 2010, at 2:36 PM, Jeff Massung wrote:

> While we're bringing up old "war stories" and measuring lengths...
> 
> I have a friend who works for Boeing. Just to give a little physics
> background, satellites are not in perfect orbit; they are continuously
> falling to the Earth and need course correcting every so often.
> 
> This one particular satellite used a particular program to course correct
> and the thrust units were measured in thousands (2000, 3000, etc). A new
> hire who was working late got the call for a course correct went to the
> machine, typed in the appropriate thrust amount and which rockets and hit
> enter. Was prompted "are you sure?", hit yes, and bye-bye satellite.
> Un-beknowst to the new guy, the program implicitly did the multiplication of
> units for him (he was supposed to enter 2, 3, ...).
> 
> Nothing like firing a few hundred million dollars out into space your first
> week on the job, eh? ;-)
> 
> Jeff M.
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revVideoGrabber: stop preview doesn't hide video window

[Ben Rubinstein]

Docs for revStopPreviewingVideo says:
"Stops showing input from a video camera in the video grabber window."
"Use the revStopPreviewingVideo command to stop showing video input."
"When you stop previewing video, the video grabber window shows a blank screen."

When I try this (rev 4.0 or later, on MacOS X 10.6) it doesn't show a blank 
screen, instead I'm left with a still of the last frame.  The only way to make 
it go away is to execute revCloseVideoGrabber.


Is this a known bug?  Am I doing something wrong?  Does anyone else experience 
this, or conversely has anyone experience of it working as documented?


TIA,

Ben
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Re: [RevServer tips] Spreading the load or why wise developers use asynchronous workflows

[Jeff Massung]

On Thu, Aug 5, 2010 at 4:26 PM, Mark Wieder  wrote:

> Andre-
>
> Wednesday, August 4, 2010, 2:27:19 PM, you wrote:
>
> > Let me tell you that I once did something like that by accident on my own
> > test server. I had a recursive process that started spawning itself and
> > would not quit... in the end I had to reboot the damn vps. Thats why
> those
> > limits are important
>
> Awww... I've brought down bigger systems than that. Next time we sit
> down over a beer I'll tell you about the time I found out what the
> nohup command does...
>


While we're bringing up old "war stories" and measuring lengths...

I have a friend who works for Boeing. Just to give a little physics
background, satellites are not in perfect orbit; they are continuously
falling to the Earth and need course correcting every so often.

This one particular satellite used a particular program to course correct
and the thrust units were measured in thousands (2000, 3000, etc). A new
hire who was working late got the call for a course correct went to the
machine, typed in the appropriate thrust amount and which rockets and hit
enter. Was prompted "are you sure?", hit yes, and bye-bye satellite.
Un-beknowst to the new guy, the program implicitly did the multiplication of
units for him (he was supposed to enter 2, 3, ...).

Nothing like firing a few hundred million dollars out into space your first
week on the job, eh? ;-)

Jeff M.
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Re: [RevServer tips] Spreading the load or why wise developers use asynchronous workflows

[Mark Wieder]

Andre-

Wednesday, August 4, 2010, 2:27:19 PM, you wrote:

> Let me tell you that I once did something like that by accident on my own
> test server. I had a recursive process that started spawning itself and
> would not quit... in the end I had to reboot the damn vps. Thats why those
> limits are important

Awww... I've brought down bigger systems than that. Next time we sit
down over a beer I'll tell you about the time I found out what the
nohup command does...

-- 
-Mark Wieder
 mwie...@ahsoftware.net

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Rev and Microsoft COM methods

[Glen Bojsza]

Hello all,

I am looking for guidance on using Rev to work with an application through
Microsoft COM methods.

Currently, I have found the methods currently being used with VB Script and
I believe that there must be a way to do the same thing via Rev.

Any help or examples is appreciated.

thanks,

Glen
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Re: Rodeo, revServer etc.

[Michael Kann]

Heather,

As usual, the men have made a mess of everything.

Mike

--- On Thu, 8/5/10, Heather Nagey  wrote:

From: Heather Nagey 
Subject: Re: Rodeo, revServer etc.
To: "How to use Revolution" 
Date: Thursday, August 5, 2010, 1:16 PM

Good heavens. I go away for a week and a war breaks out! I do apologise, I will 
never take another holiday!

Sarah, you are not banned. What a crazy idea.

I might suggest that this whole saga is a sad illustration of my mantra - if 
you want to know the answer to a question, write to support - 
supp...@runrev.com. Do not assume that posting an issue on the use-list will 
get you an answer. Do not assume that emailing a specific engineer will get you 
an answer - that engineer might not be in a position to reply. Do not assume 
that a specific member of the user community knows the correct answer. Do not 
email my personal email address, I might be away.  Support is manned, even when 
I am on holiday. In fact, Andre did finally email support to ask about the 
revServer limits, and he did get a reply.

Now perhaps we can all get back to discussing Rev, in all its forms, and how to 
get the best use out of it. In a friendly, non-confrontational manner if at all 
possible!

Warm Regards to all

Heather

Heather Nagey
Customer Services Manager
http://www.runrev.com/
RunRev - Software construction for everyone
follow me on twitter
http://www.twitter.com/lainopik

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Re: E-mailing data file

[Michael D Mays]

But not everyone can get Gmail from anywhere. The example I sited in my first 
reply doesn't have access to Gmail they block it and a lot of other 
things/sites/ports. I can use SMTP and email a file from there. I don't use Rev 
for this and from what Andre says, one shouldn't.  

But if you don't have anything but email, then use email.  

Michael

On Aug 5, 2010, at 1:10 PM, Scott Rossi wrote:

> Also, what if someone uses a Web-based mail client and doesn't use an email
> app at all?  I know several people who use gmail directly within a browser
> because they can get to it from anywhere there's an internet connection.
> Doesn't seem like mailto would be of any use here.
> 
> Regards,
> 
> Scott Rossi
> Creative Director
> Tactile Media, UX Design
> 
> 
> Recently, Michael D Mays wrote:
> 
>> Ignorant me. I just tried revMail on Windows and if the file is too big the
>> email program isn't launched or if running the email isn't generated.
>> 
>> I think Sarah Reichelt's POP3 and SMTP stacks at
>>  http://www.troz.net/rev/index.irev?category=Library#stacks
>> are pretty good. 
>> 
>> Michael
>> 
>> On Aug 5, 2010, at 11:24 AM, Richard Gaskin wrote:
>> 
>>> Right: that's how the mailto protocol is usually handled on most systems, 
>>> and
>>> unfortunately the way Microsoft handles it is unpredictable for all but the
>>> shortest messages.
> 

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Re: E-mailing data file

[Andre Garzia]

On Thu, Aug 5, 2010 at 1:24 PM, Richard Gaskin
wrote:

> Some years ago Andre found a clever way to send email directly to one's
> SMTP server without such authentication, but as much as I love Andre I never
> felt comfortable with such a scheme to have tried it myself.



smtp-raw.rev was a toy, it does not guarantee deliveries because some
receiving SMTP servers will try a reverse DNS check on it and will spot the
difference. Nowadays with spam and stuff it is even harder to play the MTA
game.

That thing should not be used into production unless you control the
receiving SMTP server and knows how to configure it to allow your traffic
thru (Which will open it to all kinds of nastiness anyway)

CGI/RevServer is the way to go for such communications.



-- 
http://www.andregarzia.com All We Do Is Code.
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Copying binary files over a LAN using Rev

[Alejandro Tejada]

Hi all,

How could i use Rev to copy a binary file between
stacks opened in two different computers over a
local area network?

In this LAN, every computer reports at least
two different IP directions:
The first IP (reported by IPconfig) are in the
range 192.168.1.[0-255].
The second IP (visible from the web) are in
the range from 201.229.179.[0-255]

Every idea is welcome!
Thanks in advance.

Al

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Re: [RevServer tips] Spreading the load or why wise developers use asynchronous workflows

[Thomas McGrath III]

Bob,

It's amazing how your scenario turned on the light bulb in my brain about this. 
Thanks...

And bobs-yer-uncle I got it...

Tom

On Aug 4, 2010, at 1:22 PM, Bob Sneidar wrote:

> Okay, so let's say I'm a script kiddie with a bug up my butt about your web 
> server. I decide I am going to take it down. Now I'm smart enough to know 
> that servers are multi-threaded, meaning they can host lots of connections 
> and process threads to manage simultaneous connections. But what I am banking 
> on is that your server does not have any limits on how long a process can 
> stay open. 
> 
> So what I do is craft an application that continuously opens processes that 
> will take forever. All the well behaved processes from other users will 
> eventually finish, leaving one more process thread for my malicious app to 
> gobble up. 
> 
> Eventually my malicious app gobbles up ALL the available processes, and 
> bobs-yer-uncle I have your server by the short hairs. Oh but wait! Turns out 
> you were not as dumb as moi hoped you were, and you set up policies on your 
> web server that automatically terminated processes lasting longer than 30 
> seconds. Well I might be able to bog down your server, but I can't kill it. 
> 
> Oh but wait! You turned out to be MUCH smarter than I thought, and after my 
> server terminates x number of processes from a particular address, you lock 
> me out of your server! Okay, well I craft my program now to create HUGE 
> processes, as big as I can get them. Oh but wait again! Your server has 
> limits on how big a process can be! Dang! Yer a genius and I am screwed! 
> 
> Bob
> 
> 
> On Aug 4, 2010, at 9:59 AM, wayne durden wrote:
> 
>> Thanks Andre, and I am working through your article now as well.  I get that
>> it is per process but the part that isn't still clear to me is that the OS
>> can be doing my intensive process for 30 seconds before closing it and also
>> attending to another user simultaneously or not.  I am under the impression
>> there is still some resource slicing going on, I just don't have a concrete
>> understanding...
>> 
>> This is all very interesting to me because I am interested in moving a
>> desktop app that processes datafiles up to 100,000 lines which can mean for
>> each line comparing against the remainder (in reality sorts cust this down a
>> great deal), but this can run for minutes on a desktop app and I have got to
>> cut it down into asynchronous processing as per your article...
>> 
>> Thanks!
>> 
>> Wayne
> 
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Re: E-mailing data file

[Mike Bonner]

Theres a little tool you can install (and I think you can adjust
things manually yourself) so that mailto: will kick gmail in. It can
be handy for those online links so that it will open a gmail compose
window, but of all the people I know who use gmail I think only 2 of
them have it set up this way.  I'm not one of them either, so its a
safe bet that in most cases your point is correct.  In that situation,
it would open an unconfigured "default" mail client which would indeed
be useless.

On Thu, Aug 5, 2010 at 12:10 PM, Scott Rossi  wrote:
> Also, what if someone uses a Web-based mail client and doesn't use an email
> app at all?  I know several people who use gmail directly within a browser
> because they can get to it from anywhere there's an internet connection.
> Doesn't seem like mailto would be of any use here.
>
> Regards,
>
> Scott Rossi
> Creative Director
> Tactile Media, UX Design
>
>
> Recently, Michael D Mays wrote:
>
>> Ignorant me. I just tried revMail on Windows and if the file is too big the
>> email program isn't launched or if running the email isn't generated.
>>
>> I think Sarah Reichelt's POP3 and SMTP stacks at
>>   http://www.troz.net/rev/index.irev?category=Library#stacks
>> are pretty good.
>>
>> Michael
>>
>> On Aug 5, 2010, at 11:24 AM, Richard Gaskin wrote:
>>
>>> Right: that's how the mailto protocol is usually handled on most systems, 
>>> and
>>> unfortunately the way Microsoft handles it is unpredictable for all but the
>>> shortest messages.
>
>
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Re: Rodeo, revServer etc.

[Heather Nagey]

Good heavens. I go away for a week and a war breaks out! I do  
apologise, I will never take another holiday!


Sarah, you are not banned. What a crazy idea.

I might suggest that this whole saga is a sad illustration of my  
mantra - if you want to know the answer to a question, write to  
support - supp...@runrev.com. Do not assume that posting an issue on  
the use-list will get you an answer. Do not assume that emailing a  
specific engineer will get you an answer - that engineer might not be  
in a position to reply. Do not assume that a specific member of the  
user community knows the correct answer. Do not email my personal  
email address, I might be away.  Support is manned, even when I am on  
holiday. In fact, Andre did finally email support to ask about the  
revServer limits, and he did get a reply.


Now perhaps we can all get back to discussing Rev, in all its forms,  
and how to get the best use out of it. In a friendly, non- 
confrontational manner if at all possible!


Warm Regards to all

Heather

Heather Nagey
Customer Services Manager
http://www.runrev.com/
RunRev - Software construction for everyone
follow me on twitter
http://www.twitter.com/lainopik

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Re: E-mailing data file

[Scott Rossi]

Also, what if someone uses a Web-based mail client and doesn't use an email
app at all?  I know several people who use gmail directly within a browser
because they can get to it from anywhere there's an internet connection.
Doesn't seem like mailto would be of any use here.

Regards,

Scott Rossi
Creative Director
Tactile Media, UX Design


Recently, Michael D Mays wrote:

> Ignorant me. I just tried revMail on Windows and if the file is too big the
> email program isn't launched or if running the email isn't generated.
> 
> I think Sarah Reichelt's POP3 and SMTP stacks at
>   http://www.troz.net/rev/index.irev?category=Library#stacks
> are pretty good. 
> 
> Michael
> 
> On Aug 5, 2010, at 11:24 AM, Richard Gaskin wrote:
> 
>> Right: that's how the mailto protocol is usually handled on most systems, and
>> unfortunately the way Microsoft handles it is unpredictable for all but the
>> shortest messages.


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Re: [RevServer tips] Spreading the load or why wise developers use asynchronous workflows

[Jeff Massung]

On Thu, Aug 5, 2010 at 11:52 AM, Bob Sneidar  wrote:

> Problem is, I don't want to learn how to do web CGI's yet. I got the On-Rev
> account for 2 reasons: It was an AWESOME deal, and it had an SQL server I
> could use for my development wherever I go.
>
> Bob
>


Bob,

There's nothing to "CGI". The term has gone through many iterations. But,
think of it like this:

When someone makes an HTTP request to your web server (typically through a
browser, but not required), the web server accepts the incoming connection,
looks at the REST command (typically a GET or POST) and then attempts to
fulfill the request. Let's try an example:

GET /index.html HTTP/1.1

That would be the command sent by the socket (with more information, but
that's primarily the important part). Your web server (Apache w/ On-Rev)
looks at the file requested and says, ".HTML files are just sent verbatim
back." So it loads /index.html and sends all the data back over the
connection.

With CGI, all that's different is that there's a level of indirection added
to the process. Let's perform a similar command:

GET /register_user.irev HTTP/1.1

Now, the On-Rev Apache server is configured to understand that .IREV files
don't get sent verbatim back to the client. Instead, they are opened,
parsed, portions of them are executed, and the results are then sent on to
the client. That "executing" part of the story is a form of CGI.

In your register_user.irev script, you can then do something like this
(pseudo-code as I don't remember all of it correctly from memory):



You've just executed a database action using CGI and a REST API (note: REST
is just a glorified way of saying "via HTTP").

There's a lot to begin thinking about (security-wise*) once you've gotten it
working, but you can use the above to do all sorts of things. And best of
all, you don't need a browser. You can just send commands through Rev if you
wan:

get url "http://.../register_user.irev?username=bob&password=luggage12345";

Hope this helps,

Jeff M.

* I -highly- recommend that you take some time an look up DOS attacks on
Wikipedia and follow the links there to all the other kinds of attacks you
should worry about once a database is exposed to the world (DOS is just the
most common). Some key ones:

- Data validation
- Captcha
- IP validation
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Re: E-mailing data file

[Michael D Mays]

Ignorant me. I just tried revMail on Windows and if the file is too big the 
email program isn't launched or if running the email isn't generated. 

I think Sarah Reichelt's POP3 and SMTP stacks at 
  http://www.troz.net/rev/index.irev?category=Library#stacks 
are pretty good. 

Michael

On Aug 5, 2010, at 11:24 AM, Richard Gaskin wrote:

> Right: that's how the mailto protocol is usually handled on most systems, and 
> unfortunately the way Microsoft handles it is unpredictable for all but the 
> shortest messages.



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Re: Rodeo, revServer etc.

[J. Landman Gay]

On 8/5/10 4:44 AM, Kevin Miller wrote:

On 05/08/2010 01:48, "Sarah Reichelt"  wrote:


Andre's tests have now demonstrated that the timeout issue is in the
On-Rev server and not in revServer itself. This is excellent news, and
I would still recommend revServer to anyone. But we were unable to get
an answer from anyone at RunRev on this subject


This is just patently untrue.


Sarah, please see my other post -- Ollie was gone by the time Andrew 
wrote to him. No one saw the email. I'm feeling pretty bad about all 
this, it sounds like a huge misunderstanding.


--
Jacqueline Landman Gay | jac...@hyperactivesw.com
HyperActive Software   | http://www.hyperactivesw.com
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Re: Rodeo, revServer etc.

[J. Landman Gay]

On 8/5/10 6:04 AM, Chipp Walters wrote:


http://rodeoapps.posterous.com/24666755


I just went over to read that page, and it made me sad. It looks like 
the "RR is uncommuncative" sentiment is based at least partly on the 
fact that Andrew sent emails directly to Oliver privately, and Ollie did 
not respond. The reason he didn't respond is because by that time he was 
no longer with the company -- he was one of the engineers who left. Any 
email sent directly to Ollie would have gone into oblivion. No one would 
have seen it.


If anyone writes to an engineer privately and does not get a response, I 
hope you'll resend your email to the support queue, where RR is diligent 
in following up with the appropriate people. In fact, that's usually the 
best way to get a response, because I know for a fact that at least one 
of our major players has an inbox that goes on practically to infinity, 
and he's unlikely to even notice anything you send.


If this whole mess has happened because of that misunderstanding, it's 
very sad indeed.


--
Jacqueline Landman Gay | jac...@hyperactivesw.com
HyperActive Software   | http://www.hyperactivesw.com
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Re: Rodeo, revServer etc.

[Bob Sneidar]

Gawd! Enough already!

Bob


On Aug 5, 2010, at 4:04 AM, Chipp Walters wrote:

> Sarah,
> 
> I suspect the requests for you and Jerry to stay around won't do much good. 
> It's clear you both  are most hurt and outraged by this rabble, and besides, 
> you all have much work to do!
> 
> Perhaps it might be helpful to look at this from a different point of view?
> 
> One might say there seems to be a convenient correlation between the claims 
> of a buggy RevServer, the announcement "RODEO now creates standalones on the 
> Mac" (thus clearly in defiance of Rev's license policy), and the abrupt 
> switch to PHP. In fact, one might suspect they go hand in hand, as the posts 
> are the one and the same.
> 
> http://rodeoapps.posterous.com/24666755
> 
> One can certainly understand the business reason for the change to PHP. It 
> makes perfect sense and is the only way around the license issue. It's too 
> bad RunRev has been an unknowing willing participant in helping fund, provide 
> customers for, publicize, and launch a direct competitor.
> 
> Still, one can applaud the skill at how deftly this has all come about-- heck 
> RODEO even had a newly branded website up the exact same day as the post. 
> Perfect timing.___
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Re: Keeping On-Rev Scripts and Data From Prying Eyes

[Gregory Lypny]

Excellent.  Good advice.  Although, I've started to mess around with it, and my 
page is not longer working.  I think I must be entering the file paths 
incorrectly or I have the wrong permissions.  Those are two things I will have 
to do some homework on.

Just as a first attempt, I created a folder named scripts.  It is at the same 
level in the hierarchy as public_html and has the same permissions (750).  
Inside of scripts are the revolution handler MyLookUp.irev and MyData.txt.  
Both have permissions 0644, which is what they had when they were located in 
public_html.

In my web page, which remains in public_html, I have 

The line in the script that accesses the data is

put url ("file:../scripts/MyData.txt") into tmpList


Regards,

Gregory
Montreal



On Thu, Aug 5, 2010, at 12:24 PM, use-revolution-requ...@lists.runrev.com wrote:

> Best than putting them in the cgi-bin, i always prefer to set to be a 
> read-only dir, each time we need to push data files away from eyes, it's 
> mostly simple to put them inside a private htaccess/htpasswd protected 
> directory (need login/passwd authentication on the web side ; full accessible 
> to the irev scripts as a simple local filesystem directory). 

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Re: Saving data in List Magic tables

[charles61]

Richard,

I am sorry to open this can of worms!  The apps I made in the past were ones 
that did only computations where no data was saved. And, recently I learned 
about creating, saving and reading Prefs!  

My current app is the only one that has LM tables where information have to be 
saved for these tables within the app itself. Otherwise, data files created by 
my app are saved as data files in documents. So, I will go ahead and use 
Application Support to put my app.

Charles Szasz
csz...@mac.com




On Aug 5, 2010, at 12:45 PM, Richard Gaskin [via Runtime Revolution] wrote:

> charles61 wrote: 
> 
>  > After going to Key Ray's site, I found "asup" as code for Application 
>  > Support constant for OS X. Is this the best place to put your app 
>  > when you install it on an user's OS X computer? 
> 
> Now you've gone an opened up a can of worms, Charles! :) 
> 
> This question touches on a few issues, but let's handle the small one first: 
> 
> If you want to save DATA (not the app, we'll get to that in a moment) to 
> the Application Data folder, you need to decide which one.  There's a 
> system-wide one in the System folder, and a user-specific one in the 
> user's Library folder. 
> 
> The system-wide one can be useful for data which will be used by all 
> users on that machine: 
> 
>get specialFolderPath("asup") 
> 
> There is no special constant for the user's App Support folder, but you 
> can get it by concatenating the user folder with the App Support folder: 
> 
>get specialFolderPath("home")& specialFolderPath("asup") 
> 
> 
> But that's for data only.  And Apple gets somewhat specific about 
> *which* data should go there - see this overview of "Where to put 
> application files": 
> 
>  
> 
> In short, they suggest using the Preferences folder for prefs data, and 
> Application Support for "any type of file that supports the application 
> but is not required for the application to run." 
> 
> As for the application itself, it should go into the Applications folder 
> on OS X and Program Files on Windows.  But remember that modern versions 
> of both OS X and Windows can restrict access to those folders for 
> non-admin accounts. 
> 
> For Windows, any installer builder you use will allow an option for the 
> user to elevate privileges to a level appropriate for installation, or 
> if you're rolling your own you can use the option for setting User 
> Access Control in Rev's Standalone Builder. 
> 
> On OS X, it's common to deliver apps in a DMG image file, so they user 
> will be able to put it wherever they have permissions to do so. 
> 
> Once the app is installed, if the user doesn't have admin permissions 
> the app may not be able to write to its own folder. So for things like 
> your Reports stack, I would consider using Application Support on OS X 
> and Application Data on Windows. 
> 
> -- 
>   Richard Gaskin 
>   Fourth World 
>   Rev training and consulting: http://www.fourthworld.com
>   Webzine for Rev developers: http://www.revjournal.com
>   revJournal blog: http://revjournal.com/blog.irv
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> 
> View message @ 
> http://runtime-revolution.278305.n4.nabble.com/Saving-data-in-List-Magic-tables-tp2314915p2315129.html
>  
> To unsubscribe from Saving data in List Magic tables, click here.
> 


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View this message in context: 
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Re: Saving data in List Magic tables

[Peter Haworth]

Probably worth mentioning that, as pointed out to me by the good folks  
on this list, it's NOT a good idea to put any of your application's  
data files in the Applications folder if you plan on writing to them.   
Unless the Mac user is an administrator, he/she won't have write  
access to the Applications folder. I ended up creating a folder in the  
user's Documents folder to hold my data files (sqlite db, etc).  And  
also a folder in the user's Library/Preferences folder to hold that  
user's preferences information.


Pete Haworth

On Aug 5, 2010, at 9:24 AM, use-revolution-requ...@lists.runrev.com  
wrote:



Message: 24
Date: Thu, 5 Aug 2010 17:27:12 +0200
From: Klaus on-rev 
Subject: Re: Saving data in List Magic tables
To: How to use Revolution 
Message-ID: 
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii

Hi Charles,


Richard,

What is the best location for an app to be installed on OSX?


The "Application" folder. Get it with:
specialfolderpath("apps")


Charles Szasz
csz...@mac.com



Best

Klaus


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Re: [RevServer tips] Spreading the load or why wise developers use asynchronous workflows

[Bob Sneidar]

Problem is, I don't want to learn how to do web CGI's yet. I got the On-Rev 
account for 2 reasons: It was an AWESOME deal, and it had an SQL server I could 
use for my development wherever I go.

Bob


On Aug 4, 2010, at 2:29 PM, Pierre Sahores wrote:

> Please, follow the Andre's and Jeff's explainations as closely as possibe. 
> It's realy important, if you don't want to get your dbs and, secondly, your 
> accounts hacked in just some attempts.
> 
> Best, Pierre

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Re: Saving data in List Magic tables

[Richard Gaskin]

charles61 wrote:

> After going to Key Ray's site, I found "asup" as code for Application
> Support constant for OS X. Is this the best place to put your app
> when you install it on an user's OS X computer?

Now you've gone an opened up a can of worms, Charles! :)

This question touches on a few issues, but let's handle the small one first:

If you want to save DATA (not the app, we'll get to that in a moment) to 
the Application Data folder, you need to decide which one.  There's a 
system-wide one in the System folder, and a user-specific one in the 
user's Library folder.


The system-wide one can be useful for data which will be used by all 
users on that machine:


  get specialFolderPath("asup")

There is no special constant for the user's App Support folder, but you 
can get it by concatenating the user folder with the App Support folder:


  get specialFolderPath("home")& specialFolderPath("asup")


But that's for data only.  And Apple gets somewhat specific about 
*which* data should go there - see this overview of "Where to put 
application files":



In short, they suggest using the Preferences folder for prefs data, and 
Application Support for "any type of file that supports the application 
but is not required for the application to run."


As for the application itself, it should go into the Applications folder 
on OS X and Program Files on Windows.  But remember that modern versions 
of both OS X and Windows can restrict access to those folders for 
non-admin accounts.


For Windows, any installer builder you use will allow an option for the 
user to elevate privileges to a level appropriate for installation, or 
if you're rolling your own you can use the option for setting User 
Access Control in Rev's Standalone Builder.


On OS X, it's common to deliver apps in a DMG image file, so they user 
will be able to put it wherever they have permissions to do so.


Once the app is installed, if the user doesn't have admin permissions 
the app may not be able to write to its own folder. So for things like 
your Reports stack, I would consider using Application Support on OS X 
and Application Data on Windows.


--
 Richard Gaskin
 Fourth World
 Rev training and consulting: http://www.fourthworld.com
 Webzine for Rev developers: http://www.revjournal.com
 revJournal blog: http://revjournal.com/blog.irv
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Re: [RevServer tips] Spreading the load or why wise developers use asynchronous workflows

[Bob Sneidar]

I suppose on a server that was unrestricted, that would be true. But I set it 
up to only accept connections from the IP's I want, and I have strong passwords 
protecting it. Wouldn't that be enough?

Bob


On Aug 4, 2010, at 1:20 PM, Jeff Massung wrote:

> Never, ever, ever do this. ;-)
> 
> It's basically asking for someone to hack - and nuke - your database out
> from under you. You never want to connect to it remotely, and you never want
> to send SQL commands to it directly. Use an intermediate layer.

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Re: E-mailing data file

[Richard Gaskin]

Michael D Mays wrote:

> I think were both wrong.  revMail uses the user's email program
> to generate an email. The user then can send the email from
> their email program.

Right: that's how the mailto protocol is usually handled on most 
systems, and unfortunately the way Microsoft handles it is unpredictable 
for all but the shortest messages.


> It seems like I used Rev some years back to send email via SMTP.
> If not it was with that other cross platform software.

There are a few SMTP libs floating around in the Rev community, but 
using them may require a bit of diligence as it would require putting 
your account's SMTP authentication into the stack you hand out to clients.


Some years ago Andre found a clever way to send email directly to one's 
SMTP server without such authentication, but as much as I love Andre I 
never felt comfortable with such a scheme to have tried it myself.


For my own needs, a CGI has provided a good mix of flexibility with the 
data I'm sending, the size of the data (thanks to the compress 
function), and the security of knowing it can't be used by spammers to 
send email to other addresses.


--
 Richard Gaskin
 Fourth World
 Rev training and consulting: http://www.fourthworld.com
 Webzine for Rev developers: http://www.revjournal.com
 revJournal blog: http://revjournal.com/blog.irv
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Re: E-mailing data file

[Michael D Mays]

I think were both wrong.  revMail uses the user's email program to generate an 
email. The user then can send the email from their email program.

It seems like I used Rev some years back to send email via SMTP. If not it was 
with that other cross platform software. 

Sorry,
Michael
On Aug 5, 2010, at 10:38 AM, Richard Gaskin wrote:

> Michael D Mays wrote:
> 
> > I think you misunderstood my comment.  And reading Charles comments
> > I didn't think he was wanting to use mailto (cgi stuff) rather he
> > was wanting a solution more along revMail. Email is not the best
> > solution but many times it is more than adequate.
> 
> I think I'm still missing something because RevMail is just a wrapper for 
> mailto.

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Re: Saving data in List Magic tables

[charles61]

Richard,

After going to Key Ray's site, I found "asup" as code for Application Support 
constant for OS X. Is this the best place to put your app when you install it 
on an user's OS X computer? 

Charles Szasz
csz...@mac.com




On Aug 5, 2010, at 10:35 AM, Richard Gaskin [via Runtime Revolution] wrote:

> charles61 wrote: 
> 
> > I have a standalone consisting of a splash stack and an app stack. I have 
> > set 
> > up a script that the user can insert some information into two tables - one 
> > for students and one for adults. These tables are on two different cards in 
> > my app stack. 
> > 
> > I have been testing my standalone on Windows XP where it was installed in 
> > the AllUsersAppData directory using an installer program.  I tried the 
> > following script for the card that has the student list: 
> > 
> > on closeCard 
> >Save "School Report" as "\Documents and Settings\All Users\Application 
> > Data" 
> > end closeCard 
> > 
> > But this does not save the data in the two tables!  Any suggestions would 
> > be 
> > greatly appreciated!
> 
> When the unexpected happens, it's time for error-checking.   One of the 
> challenges of crafting apps is that when you're being diligent only 
> about half your code will actually do what your app does, and the other 
> half will be all the stuff you add to account for when things go wrong. :) 
> 
> In Rev, most error conditions are reported in "the result" immediately 
> after a command fails, and for I/O and other system-related tasks you 
> may find an additional OS-supplied error code using the sysError function. 
> 
> So to better understand what's happening there you may try adding that 
> to your script. 
> 
> Also, by hard-wiring your paths they won't work on international systems 
> where the spelling may differ, and may not survive changes to the OS if 
> MS changes the names of those folders in a future version. 
> 
> The solution for that is Rev's specialFolderPath function.  Rev provides 
> a variety of constants you can pass to that function to get the path, 
> and pretty much all OS constants provided by the OS vendor can be used 
> as well -- Ken Ray's put together this comprehensive list: 
>  
> 
> While Rev doesn't include a built-in constant for that, looking at Ken's 
> list you can use the OS constant instead, which is "35". 
> 
> If you want that to be cross-platform you can use Ken's list to get the 
> Application Support constant for OS X, but for now here's your code 
> modified with specialFolderPath and including the error check which will 
> hopefully help diagnose the issue. 
> 
> A ha!  As I was rewriting your code I noticed that you're specifying 
> only the folder and not the file name, so effectively you're asking Rev 
> to try to turn the stack into a folder, which of course it can't do. 
> The fix for that is included in this revision: 
> 
> on closeCard 
> Save "School Report" as (specialFolderPath(35)&"/School Report.rev") 
> if the result is not empty then 
>answer error "An error occurred while saving the report: "&cr&\ 
>   the result & "("& sysError() &")" 
>  end if 
> end closeCard 
> 
> Note that the ".rev" extension can be changed to anything else you feel 
> might be appropriate for your app. Rev opens stacks based on their 
> internal stucture, and a standalone is not required to use the .rev file 
> name extension to work with stack files, allowing you to define your own 
> document types. 
> 
> If you want to use a custom file name extension you may want to check 
>  to see if another program may be using it.  That's 
> not a comprehensive list (Microsoft doesn't maintain such an index), but 
> it'll at least help avoid some of the more obvious conflicts. 
> 
> -- 
>   Richard Gaskin 
>   Fourth World 
>   Rev training and consulting: http://www.fourthworld.com
>   Webzine for Rev developers: http://www.revjournal.com
>   revJournal blog: http://revjournal.com/blog.irv
> ___ 
> use-revolution mailing list 
> [hidden email] 
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription 
> preferences: 
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> 
> 
> View message @ 
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>  
> To unsubscribe from Saving data in List Magic tables, click here.
> 


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Re: E-mailing data file

[Richard Gaskin]

Michael D Mays wrote:

> I think you misunderstood my comment.  And reading Charles comments
> I didn't think he was wanting to use mailto (cgi stuff) rather he
> was wanting a solution more along revMail. Email is not the best
> solution but many times it is more than adequate.

I think I'm still missing something because RevMail is just a wrapper 
for mailto.


--
 Richard Gaskin
 Fourth World
 Rev training and consulting: http://www.fourthworld.com
 Webzine for Rev developers: http://www.revjournal.com
 revJournal blog: http://revjournal.com/blog.irv
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Re: Saving data in List Magic tables

[Klaus on-rev]

Hi Charles,

> Richard,
> 
> What is the best location for an app to be installed on OSX?

The "Application" folder. Get it with: 
specialfolderpath("apps")

> Charles Szasz
> csz...@mac.com
> 

Best

Klaus

--
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http://www.major-k.de
kl...@major.on-rev.com

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Re: Saving data in List Magic tables

[charles61]

Richard,

What is the best location for an app to be installed on OSX?

Charles Szasz
csz...@mac.com




On Aug 5, 2010, at 10:35 AM, Richard Gaskin [via Runtime Revolution] wrote:

> charles61 wrote: 
> 
> > I have a standalone consisting of a splash stack and an app stack. I have 
> > set 
> > up a script that the user can insert some information into two tables - one 
> > for students and one for adults. These tables are on two different cards in 
> > my app stack. 
> > 
> > I have been testing my standalone on Windows XP where it was installed in 
> > the AllUsersAppData directory using an installer program.  I tried the 
> > following script for the card that has the student list: 
> > 
> > on closeCard 
> >Save "School Report" as "\Documents and Settings\All Users\Application 
> > Data" 
> > end closeCard 
> > 
> > But this does not save the data in the two tables!  Any suggestions would 
> > be 
> > greatly appreciated!
> 
> When the unexpected happens, it's time for error-checking.   One of the 
> challenges of crafting apps is that when you're being diligent only 
> about half your code will actually do what your app does, and the other 
> half will be all the stuff you add to account for when things go wrong. :) 
> 
> In Rev, most error conditions are reported in "the result" immediately 
> after a command fails, and for I/O and other system-related tasks you 
> may find an additional OS-supplied error code using the sysError function. 
> 
> So to better understand what's happening there you may try adding that 
> to your script. 
> 
> Also, by hard-wiring your paths they won't work on international systems 
> where the spelling may differ, and may not survive changes to the OS if 
> MS changes the names of those folders in a future version. 
> 
> The solution for that is Rev's specialFolderPath function.  Rev provides 
> a variety of constants you can pass to that function to get the path, 
> and pretty much all OS constants provided by the OS vendor can be used 
> as well -- Ken Ray's put together this comprehensive list: 
>  
> 
> While Rev doesn't include a built-in constant for that, looking at Ken's 
> list you can use the OS constant instead, which is "35". 
> 
> If you want that to be cross-platform you can use Ken's list to get the 
> Application Support constant for OS X, but for now here's your code 
> modified with specialFolderPath and including the error check which will 
> hopefully help diagnose the issue. 
> 
> A ha!  As I was rewriting your code I noticed that you're specifying 
> only the folder and not the file name, so effectively you're asking Rev 
> to try to turn the stack into a folder, which of course it can't do. 
> The fix for that is included in this revision: 
> 
> on closeCard 
> Save "School Report" as (specialFolderPath(35)&"/School Report.rev") 
> if the result is not empty then 
>answer error "An error occurred while saving the report: "&cr&\ 
>   the result & "("& sysError() &")" 
>  end if 
> end closeCard 
> 
> Note that the ".rev" extension can be changed to anything else you feel 
> might be appropriate for your app. Rev opens stacks based on their 
> internal stucture, and a standalone is not required to use the .rev file 
> name extension to work with stack files, allowing you to define your own 
> document types. 
> 
> If you want to use a custom file name extension you may want to check 
>  to see if another program may be using it.  That's 
> not a comprehensive list (Microsoft doesn't maintain such an index), but 
> it'll at least help avoid some of the more obvious conflicts. 
> 
> -- 
>   Richard Gaskin 
>   Fourth World 
>   Rev training and consulting: http://www.fourthworld.com
>   Webzine for Rev developers: http://www.revjournal.com
>   revJournal blog: http://revjournal.com/blog.irv
> ___ 
> use-revolution mailing list 
> [hidden email] 
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription 
> preferences: 
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
> 
> 
> View message @ 
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>  
> To unsubscribe from Saving data in List Magic tables, click here.
> 


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Re: E-mailing data file

[Michael D Mays]

I think you misunderstood my comment.  And reading Charles comments I didn't 
think he was wanting to use mailto (cgi stuff) rather he was wanting a solution 
more along revMail. Email is not the best solution but many times it is more 
than adequate. 
Michael
On Aug 5, 2010, at 9:54 AM, Richard Gaskin wrote:

> Michael D Mays wrote:
> 
> > In a lot of places email is the only way. I have people whose
> > parent corporation provides their internet connection. They
> > have limited bandwidth and a less than stellar corporate IT.
> > Emails of less than a few MB is the only way for them.
> 
> Unless I misunderstood the original request, 

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Re: Saving data in List Magic tables

[charles61]

Richard,

I check the standalones setting and found for the Mac, .rev is being used. I 
will uncheck that and try using .dat again.

Thanks!

Charles Szasz
csz...@mac.com




On Aug 5, 2010, at 11:00 AM, Richard Gaskin [via Runtime Revolution] wrote:

> charles61 wrote: 
> 
>  > Regarding the .Rev extension, I had used the extension of .dat for 
>  > a previous app, which consisted of only 8 cards. This was to make 
>  > it harder for someone to try to open the app. The .dat extension 
>  > worked great.  But I was not successfully in using the .dat extension 
>  > with my current project, which consists of 71 cards plus 18 
>  > customized dialogs. I got standalone errors in the exec recognizing 
>  > the app stack. 
> 
> FWIW I use ".dat" often and it seems to work as well as any other file 
> name extension. 
> 
> If the standalone has trouble opening the file there must be something 
> else at play beyond the file name. 
> 
> -- 
>   Richard Gaskin 
>   Fourth World 
>   Rev training and consulting: http://www.fourthworld.com
>   Webzine for Rev developers: http://www.revjournal.com
>   revJournal blog: http://revjournal.com/blog.irv
> ___ 
> use-revolution mailing list 
> [hidden email] 
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription 
> preferences: 
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> 
> 
> View message @ 
> http://runtime-revolution.278305.n4.nabble.com/Saving-data-in-List-Magic-tables-tp2314915p2314981.html
>  
> To unsubscribe from Saving data in List Magic tables, click here.
> 


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Re: E-mailing data file

[charles61]

Richard,

Thanks and I will check Jacque's tutorial for CGIs!

Charles Szasz
csz...@mac.com




On Aug 5, 2010, at 11:08 AM, Richard Gaskin [via Runtime Revolution] wrote:

> charles61 wrote: 
> 
>  > Wow!  I really appreciate your suggestions on e-mailing data. 
>  > This is something I hope to add on to my app after it is 
>  > deployed. I don't have any experience with CGI. So thanks again!!! 
> 
> Charles, your life is about to change.  :) 
> 
> Getting started with CGIs can be daunting at first because in many ways 
> it's quite different from writing in a desktop app. 
> 
> But once you get the hang of it and you've ironed out all your 500 
> errors (yes, you'll have them, but most are caused by only three issues 
> so when you encounter 'em just post here and we'll help you sort 'em 
> out) you'll have all sorts of ideas for ways you can use CGIs. 
> 
> Pretty soon you'll be the master of your server, able to have it do your 
> bidding when called from your stacks or your browser.  It'll open many 
> new worlds of discovery and personal achievement. 
> 
> I can't stress enough how helpful Jacque's tutorial is for getting 
> started with CGIs: 
>  
> 
> You're about to have a very good time.  Let us know how it goes. 
> 
> -- 
>   Richard Gaskin 
>   Fourth World 
>   Rev training and consulting: http://www.fourthworld.com
>   Webzine for Rev developers: http://www.revjournal.com
>   revJournal blog: http://revjournal.com/blog.irv
> ___ 
> use-revolution mailing list 
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> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription 
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> 
> View message @ 
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>  
> To unsubscribe from E-mailing data file, click here.
> 


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Re: E-mailing data file

[Richard Gaskin]

charles61 wrote:

> Wow!  I really appreciate your suggestions on e-mailing data.
> This is something I hope to add on to my app after it is
> deployed. I don't have any experience with CGI. So thanks again!!!

Charles, your life is about to change.  :)

Getting started with CGIs can be daunting at first because in many ways 
it's quite different from writing in a desktop app.


But once you get the hang of it and you've ironed out all your 500 
errors (yes, you'll have them, but most are caused by only three issues 
so when you encounter 'em just post here and we'll help you sort 'em 
out) you'll have all sorts of ideas for ways you can use CGIs.


Pretty soon you'll be the master of your server, able to have it do your 
bidding when called from your stacks or your browser.  It'll open many 
new worlds of discovery and personal achievement.


I can't stress enough how helpful Jacque's tutorial is for getting 
started with CGIs:



You're about to have a very good time.  Let us know how it goes.

--
 Richard Gaskin
 Fourth World
 Rev training and consulting: http://www.fourthworld.com
 Webzine for Rev developers: http://www.revjournal.com
 revJournal blog: http://revjournal.com/blog.irv
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Re: Saving data in List Magic tables

[Richard Gaskin]

charles61 wrote:

> Regarding the .Rev extension, I had used the extension of .dat for
> a previous app, which consisted of only 8 cards. This was to make
> it harder for someone to try to open the app. The .dat extension
> worked great.  But I was not successfully in using the .dat extension
> with my current project, which consists of 71 cards plus 18
> customized dialogs. I got standalone errors in the exec recognizing
> the app stack.

FWIW I use ".dat" often and it seems to work as well as any other file 
name extension.


If the standalone has trouble opening the file there must be something 
else at play beyond the file name.


--
 Richard Gaskin
 Fourth World
 Rev training and consulting: http://www.fourthworld.com
 Webzine for Rev developers: http://www.revjournal.com
 revJournal blog: http://revjournal.com/blog.irv
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Re: E-mailing data file

[charles61]

Richard,

Wow!  I really appreciate your suggestions on e-mailing data. This is something 
I hope to add on to my app after it is deployed. I don't have any experience 
with CGI. So thanks again!!!

Charles Szasz
csz...@mac.com




On Aug 5, 2010, at 10:54 AM, Richard Gaskin [via Runtime Revolution] wrote:

> Michael D Mays wrote: 
> 
>  > In a lot of places email is the only way. I have people whose 
>  > parent corporation provides their internet connection. They 
>  > have limited bandwidth and a less than stellar corporate IT. 
>  > Emails of less than a few MB is the only way for them. 
> 
> Unless I misunderstood the original request, this isn't a question of 
> bandwidth but merely of finding a reliable way to send the message. 
> 
> The mailto: protocol is often used for such things, and in many cases 
> will open the user's default email client with a preformatted message 
> ready to send. 
> 
> The problem with mailto is that it's not reliable on Windows systems if 
> there's any risk that the total URL string passed to it may exceed 512 
> characters -- see the first comment at: 
>  
> 
> Complicating things further, this limit appears to vary between 
> different versions of Windows and/or Outlook (I've seen some systems 
> where lengths up to 2048 are accepted, but even that's kinda small for 
> sending logs). 
> 
> When that limit is exceeded, in most cases (but again, this is not 
> consistently implemented) the OS will simply fail to open the client at all. 
> 
> Faced with that unpredictable limit, mailto is only useful on Windows 
> when you know the message will be very short. 
> 
> So instead, we need to explore other options, and CGI is a great one. 
> 
> With a CGI you use the same bandwidth, since the message isn't any 
> longer regardless how it's sent. 
> 
> But using a CGI to handle the message you no longer give up control over 
> the message length, provided you send it with POST rather than GET 
> (well, technically speaking some hosts may impose limits on POST data 
> length, but usually those limits are so large they won't come into play 
> for most common uses). 
> 
> In fact, using a CGI you can send the same message in much a smaller 
> data chunk using Rev's built-in gzip compression: 
> 
> post compress(tMyData) to url "http://mydomain.com/cgi-bin/myscript.cgi"; 
> 
> Gzip compression works wonders on text, often reducing its length by as 
> much as 40% and sometimes as high as 70% depending on the content. 
> 
> On the receiving end, the CGI script can get the POST data, run it 
> through Rev's decompress function, and either email it to you, or write 
> it to a file you can pick up with FTP, or any number of other options. 
> 
> -- 
>   Richard Gaskin 
>   Fourth World 
>   Rev training and consulting: http://www.fourthworld.com
>   Webzine for Rev developers: http://www.revjournal.com
>   revJournal blog: http://revjournal.com/blog.irv
> ___ 
> use-revolution mailing list 
> [hidden email] 
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription 
> preferences: 
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> View message @ 
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>  
> To unsubscribe from E-mailing data file, click here.
> 


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Re: E-mailing data file

[Richard Gaskin]

Michael D Mays wrote:

> In a lot of places email is the only way. I have people whose
> parent corporation provides their internet connection. They
> have limited bandwidth and a less than stellar corporate IT.
> Emails of less than a few MB is the only way for them.

Unless I misunderstood the original request, this isn't a question of 
bandwidth but merely of finding a reliable way to send the message.


The mailto: protocol is often used for such things, and in many cases 
will open the user's default email client with a preformatted message 
ready to send.


The problem with mailto is that it's not reliable on Windows systems if 
there's any risk that the total URL string passed to it may exceed 512 
characters -- see the first comment at:



Complicating things further, this limit appears to vary between 
different versions of Windows and/or Outlook (I've seen some systems 
where lengths up to 2048 are accepted, but even that's kinda small for 
sending logs).


When that limit is exceeded, in most cases (but again, this is not 
consistently implemented) the OS will simply fail to open the client at all.


Faced with that unpredictable limit, mailto is only useful on Windows 
when you know the message will be very short.


So instead, we need to explore other options, and CGI is a great one.

With a CGI you use the same bandwidth, since the message isn't any 
longer regardless how it's sent.


But using a CGI to handle the message you no longer give up control over 
the message length, provided you send it with POST rather than GET 
(well, technically speaking some hosts may impose limits on POST data 
length, but usually those limits are so large they won't come into play 
for most common uses).


In fact, using a CGI you can send the same message in much a smaller 
data chunk using Rev's built-in gzip compression:


post compress(tMyData) to url "http://mydomain.com/cgi-bin/myscript.cgi";

Gzip compression works wonders on text, often reducing its length by as 
much as 40% and sometimes as high as 70% depending on the content.


On the receiving end, the CGI script can get the POST data, run it 
through Rev's decompress function, and either email it to you, or write 
it to a file you can pick up with FTP, or any number of other options.


--
 Richard Gaskin
 Fourth World
 Rev training and consulting: http://www.fourthworld.com
 Webzine for Rev developers: http://www.revjournal.com
 revJournal blog: http://revjournal.com/blog.irv
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Re: Saving data in List Magic tables

[charles61]

Klaus,

I appreciate your comments along with Richard's. Thanks so much!

Charles Szasz
csz...@mac.com




On Aug 5, 2010, at 10:47 AM, Klaus on-rev [via Runtime Revolution] wrote:

> Hi Charles, 
> 
> additionally to Richard's answer, plese see my coments below your code. 
> 
> > I have a standalone consisting of a splash stack and an app stack. I have 
> > set 
> > up a script that the user can insert some information into two tables - one 
> > for students and one for adults. These tables are on two different cards in 
> > my app stack. 
> > 
> > I have been testing my standalone on Windows XP where it was installed in 
> > the AllUsersAppData directory using an installer program.  I tried the 
> > following script for the card that has the student list: 
> > 
> > on closeCard 
> >   Save "School Report" as "\Documents and Settings\All Users\Application 
> > Data" 
> > end closeCard
> 
> 1. You only provide the STRING "School report" to the SAVE command! 
> Probably you mean "save STACK "School report..."? 
> 
> 2. You only provided the target FOLDER and no filename! 
> Hint: specialfolderpath(35) will give you that folder on all win versions! 
> ... 
> save STACK "School report" as (specialfolderpath(35) & "/" & "School 
> report.rev" 
> ## Richards debug code here... 
> ... 
> 
> Hope that helps. 
> 
> > But this does not save the data in the two tables!  Any suggestions would 
> > be 
> > greatly appreciated! 
> 
> Best 
> 
> Klaus 
> 
> -- 
> Klaus Major 
> http://www.major-k.de
> [hidden email] 
> 
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Re: Saving data in List Magic tables

[charles61]

Richard,

Thanks for pointing out my mistake and how to correct it! I was using Rev's 
Dictionary examples. And I agree with your comments about crafting an app! 

Regarding the .Rev extension, I had used the extension of .dat for a previous 
app, which consisted of only 8 cards. This was to make it harder for someone to 
try to open the app. The .dat extension worked great.  But I was not 
successfully in using the .dat extension with my current project, which 
consists of 71 cards plus 18 customized dialogs. I got standalone errors in the 
exec recognizing the app stack.

Thanks so much!!

Charles Szasz
csz...@mac.com




On Aug 5, 2010, at 10:35 AM, Richard Gaskin [via Runtime Revolution] wrote:

> charles61 wrote: 
> 
> > I have a standalone consisting of a splash stack and an app stack. I have 
> > set 
> > up a script that the user can insert some information into two tables - one 
> > for students and one for adults. These tables are on two different cards in 
> > my app stack. 
> > 
> > I have been testing my standalone on Windows XP where it was installed in 
> > the AllUsersAppData directory using an installer program.  I tried the 
> > following script for the card that has the student list: 
> > 
> > on closeCard 
> >Save "School Report" as "\Documents and Settings\All Users\Application 
> > Data" 
> > end closeCard 
> > 
> > But this does not save the data in the two tables!  Any suggestions would 
> > be 
> > greatly appreciated!
> 
> When the unexpected happens, it's time for error-checking.   One of the 
> challenges of crafting apps is that when you're being diligent only 
> about half your code will actually do what your app does, and the other 
> half will be all the stuff you add to account for when things go wrong. :) 
> 
> In Rev, most error conditions are reported in "the result" immediately 
> after a command fails, and for I/O and other system-related tasks you 
> may find an additional OS-supplied error code using the sysError function. 
> 
> So to better understand what's happening there you may try adding that 
> to your script. 
> 
> Also, by hard-wiring your paths they won't work on international systems 
> where the spelling may differ, and may not survive changes to the OS if 
> MS changes the names of those folders in a future version. 
> 
> The solution for that is Rev's specialFolderPath function.  Rev provides 
> a variety of constants you can pass to that function to get the path, 
> and pretty much all OS constants provided by the OS vendor can be used 
> as well -- Ken Ray's put together this comprehensive list: 
>  
> 
> While Rev doesn't include a built-in constant for that, looking at Ken's 
> list you can use the OS constant instead, which is "35". 
> 
> If you want that to be cross-platform you can use Ken's list to get the 
> Application Support constant for OS X, but for now here's your code 
> modified with specialFolderPath and including the error check which will 
> hopefully help diagnose the issue. 
> 
> A ha!  As I was rewriting your code I noticed that you're specifying 
> only the folder and not the file name, so effectively you're asking Rev 
> to try to turn the stack into a folder, which of course it can't do. 
> The fix for that is included in this revision: 
> 
> on closeCard 
> Save "School Report" as (specialFolderPath(35)&"/School Report.rev") 
> if the result is not empty then 
>answer error "An error occurred while saving the report: "&cr&\ 
>   the result & "("& sysError() &")" 
>  end if 
> end closeCard 
> 
> Note that the ".rev" extension can be changed to anything else you feel 
> might be appropriate for your app. Rev opens stacks based on their 
> internal stucture, and a standalone is not required to use the .rev file 
> name extension to work with stack files, allowing you to define your own 
> document types. 
> 
> If you want to use a custom file name extension you may want to check 
>  to see if another program may be using it.  That's 
> not a comprehensive list (Microsoft doesn't maintain such an index), but 
> it'll at least help avoid some of the more obvious conflicts. 
> 
> -- 
>   Richard Gaskin 
>   Fourth World 
>   Rev training and consulting: http://www.fourthworld.com
>   Webzine for Rev developers: http://www.revjournal.com
>   revJournal blog: http://revjournal.com/blog.irv
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> 
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Re: Saving data in List Magic tables

[Klaus on-rev]

Hi Charles,

additionally to Richard's answer, plese see my coments below your code.

> I have a standalone consisting of a splash stack and an app stack. I have set
> up a script that the user can insert some information into two tables - one
> for students and one for adults. These tables are on two different cards in
> my app stack. 
> 
> I have been testing my standalone on Windows XP where it was installed in
> the AllUsersAppData directory using an installer program.  I tried the
> following script for the card that has the student list:
> 
> on closeCard
>   Save "School Report" as "\Documents and Settings\All Users\Application
> Data"
> end closeCard

1. You only provide the STRING "School report" to the SAVE command!
Probably you mean "save STACK "School report..."?

2. You only provided the target FOLDER and no filename!
Hint: specialfolderpath(35) will give you that folder on all win versions!
...
save STACK "School report" as (specialfolderpath(35) & "/" & "School report.rev"
## Richards debug code here...
...

Hope that helps.

> But this does not save the data in the two tables!  Any suggestions would be
> greatly appreciated!

Best

Klaus

--
Klaus Major
http://www.major-k.de
kl...@major.on-rev.com

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Re: Saving data in List Magic tables

[Richard Gaskin]

charles61 wrote:


I have a standalone consisting of a splash stack and an app stack. I have set
up a script that the user can insert some information into two tables - one
for students and one for adults. These tables are on two different cards in
my app stack.

I have been testing my standalone on Windows XP where it was installed in
the AllUsersAppData directory using an installer program.  I tried the
following script for the card that has the student list:

on closeCard
   Save "School Report" as "\Documents and Settings\All Users\Application
Data"
end closeCard

But this does not save the data in the two tables!  Any suggestions would be
greatly appreciated!


When the unexpected happens, it's time for error-checking.   One of the 
challenges of crafting apps is that when you're being diligent only 
about half your code will actually do what your app does, and the other 
half will be all the stuff you add to account for when things go wrong. :)


In Rev, most error conditions are reported in "the result" immediately 
after a command fails, and for I/O and other system-related tasks you 
may find an additional OS-supplied error code using the sysError function.


So to better understand what's happening there you may try adding that 
to your script.


Also, by hard-wiring your paths they won't work on international systems 
where the spelling may differ, and may not survive changes to the OS if 
MS changes the names of those folders in a future version.


The solution for that is Rev's specialFolderPath function.  Rev provides 
a variety of constants you can pass to that function to get the path, 
and pretty much all OS constants provided by the OS vendor can be used 
as well -- Ken Ray's put together this comprehensive list:



While Rev doesn't include a built-in constant for that, looking at Ken's 
list you can use the OS constant instead, which is "35".


If you want that to be cross-platform you can use Ken's list to get the 
Application Support constant for OS X, but for now here's your code 
modified with specialFolderPath and including the error check which will 
hopefully help diagnose the issue.


A ha!  As I was rewriting your code I noticed that you're specifying 
only the folder and not the file name, so effectively you're asking Rev 
to try to turn the stack into a folder, which of course it can't do. 
The fix for that is included in this revision:


on closeCard
   Save "School Report" as (specialFolderPath(35)&"/School Report.rev")
   if the result is not empty then
  answer error "An error occurred while saving the report: "&cr&\
 the result & "("& sysError() &")"
end if
end closeCard

Note that the ".rev" extension can be changed to anything else you feel 
might be appropriate for your app. Rev opens stacks based on their 
internal stucture, and a standalone is not required to use the .rev file 
name extension to work with stack files, allowing you to define your own 
document types.


If you want to use a custom file name extension you may want to check 
 to see if another program may be using it.  That's 
not a comprehensive list (Microsoft doesn't maintain such an index), but 
it'll at least help avoid some of the more obvious conflicts.


--
 Richard Gaskin
 Fourth World
 Rev training and consulting: http://www.fourthworld.com
 Webzine for Rev developers: http://www.revjournal.com
 revJournal blog: http://revjournal.com/blog.irv
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Re: E-mailing data file

[Michael D Mays]

In a lot of places email is the only way. I have people whose parent 
corporation provides their internet connection. They have limited bandwidth and 
a less than stellar corporate IT. Emails of less than a few MB is the only way 
for them.  
Michael
On Aug 4, 2010, at 10:40 AM, Andre Garzia wrote:

> Charles,
> 
> checkout libSMTP on revonline but I agree with Richard, it is easier to make
> your standalone ping a server cgi with the data. Email is just to cumbersome
> these days.
> 
> Andre
> 
> On Wed, Aug 4, 2010 at 9:57 AM, charles61  wrote:
> 
>> 
>> I created an app that generates a data file.  The files are saved on the
>> user's hard drive.  I want to add an e-mail button that would allow the
>> user
>> to send the file by e-mail by selecting the file within the app to send to
>> another person who is using my program.  How can I do that?
>> --
>> View this message in context:
>> http://runtime-revolution.278305.n4.nabble.com/E-mailing-data-file-tp2313404p2313404.html
>> Sent from the Revolution - User mailing list archive at Nabble.com.

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Saving data in List Magic tables

[charles61]

I have a standalone consisting of a splash stack and an app stack. I have set
up a script that the user can insert some information into two tables - one
for students and one for adults. These tables are on two different cards in
my app stack. 

I have been testing my standalone on Windows XP where it was installed in
the AllUsersAppData directory using an installer program.  I tried the
following script for the card that has the student list:

on closeCard
   Save "School Report" as "\Documents and Settings\All Users\Application
Data"
end closeCard

But this does not save the data in the two tables!  Any suggestions would be
greatly appreciated!
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Re: E-mailing data file

[charles61]

Thanks to everyone for your suggestions!
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Re: [OT] SRS TruSurroundXT

[Richard Gaskin]

Richmond wrote:

What a @@; changed Mum and dad's Toshiba laptop over to Ubuntu 10.04
LTS; runs
mind-blowingly faster.


Nice to hear.  I've had similar experiences on my Dell.


HOWEVER; have fallen foul of the sound card: an SRS TruSurroundXT  . .

Please! Otherwise I will have to do a complete restore of the clone
of their system I popped
on an external disk and all my hardwork configuring everything will go
down the tubes.


Try posting in the forums at ubuntu.com.  There's likely a driver 
available to fix that, and the good folks there are usually quick to 
turn up a link to such things.


--
 Richard Gaskin
 Fourth World
 Rev training and consulting: http://www.fourthworld.com
 Webzine for Rev developers: http://www.revjournal.com
 revJournal blog: http://revjournal.com/blog.irv
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Liburl availability

[ron barber]

Hi,

I am trying to compare the application's version number with the
version number online at startup in order to give an option for
upgrading. I use various liburl calls. I know that the liburl library
must load before it is available, to quote the docs :

When included in a standalone application, the Internet library is
implemented as a hidden group and made available when the group
receives its first openBackground message. During the first part of
the application's startup process, before this message is sent, the
libURLDownloadToFilecommand is not yet available. This may affect
attempts to use this command in startup, preOpenStack, openStack, or
preOpenCardhandlers in the main stack. Once the application has
finished starting up, the library is available and the
libURLDownloadToFilecommand can be used in any handler.


Does this mean I cannot access it at any time during the startup
process?  I have tried 'wait' and 'send' but not successfully.
So, what do you do use?

Thanks
Ron
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Re: Keeping On-Rev Scripts and Data From Prying Eyes

[Pierre Sahores]

> Thanks Richard and Pierre,
> 
> Keep scripts in a folder outside of public_HTML, or as Pierre suggests, the 
> cgi-bin folder.  Good stuff.  Does the same apply for data files that need 
> read and write access by the scripts?

Best than putting them in the cgi-bin, i always prefer to set to be a read-only 
dir, each time we need to push data files away from eyes, it's mostly simple to 
put them inside a private htaccess/htpasswd protected directory (need 
login/passwd authentication on the web side ; full accessible to the irev 
scripts as a simple local filesystem directory). 
> 
> Gregory
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--
Pierre Sahores
mobile : (33) 6 03 95 77 70

www.wrds.com
www.sahores-conseil.com






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Re: Mousemove, Optionkey and Windows

[ron barber]

Hi ,

Just to follow up on this question. Based on Terry's response and the
fact that I am also using Fusion, and that Jan reported no problem, I
will assume that this is a Fusion problem and not a Rev problem.

Good news.

Thanks
Ron

On 3/08/10 11:46 PM, "ron barber"  wrote:

Terry, were you testing on a windows machine or emulation or some sort?

Hi Ron - I'm running Windows under VMWare Fusion.

Terry...

--
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Medical Education Unit
Melbourne Medical School
The University of Melbourne


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Re: Keeping On-Rev Scripts and Data From Prying Eyes

[Gregory Lypny]

Thanks Richard and Pierre,

Keep scripts in a folder outside of public_HTML, or as Pierre suggests, the 
cgi-bin folder.  Good stuff.  Does the same apply for data files that need read 
and write access by the scripts?

Gregory
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Re: [OT] SRS TruSurroundXT

[Andre Garzia]

Richmond,

ask your question on superuser.com they usually know how to handle! :D

:D

On Thu, Aug 5, 2010 at 8:07 AM, Richmond wrote:

> What a @@; changed Mum and dad's Toshiba laptop over to Ubuntu 10.04
> LTS; runs
> mind-blowingly faster.
>
> HOWEVER; have fallen foul of the sound card: an SRS TruSurroundXT  . .
>
> Please! Otherwise I will have to do a complete restore of the clone of
> their system I popped
> on an external disk and all my hardwork configuring everything will go down
> the tubes.
>
> sincerely, Richmond.
>
>
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[OT] SRS TruSurroundXT

[Richmond]

What a @@; changed Mum and dad's Toshiba laptop over to Ubuntu 10.04 
LTS; runs

mind-blowingly faster.

HOWEVER; have fallen foul of the sound card: an SRS TruSurroundXT  . .

Please! Otherwise I will have to do a complete restore of the clone 
of their system I popped
on an external disk and all my hardwork configuring everything will go 
down the tubes.


sincerely, Richmond.


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Re: Rodeo, revServer etc.

[Chipp Walters]

Sarah,

I suspect the requests for you and Jerry to stay around won't do much good. 
It's clear you both  are most hurt and outraged by this rabble, and besides, 
you all have much work to do!

Perhaps it might be helpful to look at this from a different point of view?

One might say there seems to be a convenient correlation between the claims of 
a buggy RevServer, the announcement "RODEO now creates standalones on the Mac" 
(thus clearly in defiance of Rev's license policy), and the abrupt switch to 
PHP. In fact, one might suspect they go hand in hand, as the posts are the one 
and the same.

http://rodeoapps.posterous.com/24666755

One can certainly understand the business reason for the change to PHP. It 
makes perfect sense and is the only way around the license issue. It's too bad 
RunRev has been an unknowing willing participant in helping fund, provide 
customers for, publicize, and launch a direct competitor.

Still, one can applaud the skill at how deftly this has all come about-- heck 
RODEO even had a newly branded website up the exact same day as the post. 
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Re: Can't start player together on window XP

[Scott Rossi]

Recently, Jean-Pierre Soto wrote:

> I have reduce the number of player to 2. ( they only play two by two)
> 
> The problem is the same.
> 
> I can start two player at the same time but  I can't set the filename
> and then start with no delay ( less than 0.1 second) .
> 
> Do I load first all the parts of words  in N  player  and start them
> after ? or an other idéa ?

Setting the filename will always take time and will never be instantaneous.
If possible, you need to preload the player with the filename you want, and
trigger the sound when you need it.

Regards,

Scott Rossi
Creative Director
Tactile Media, UX Design


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Re: Rodeo, revServer etc.

[David Bovill]

On 5 August 2010 04:20, Andre Garzia  wrote:

>
> People sometimes gets very passionated, now, if we could channel that
> passion into FREE OPEN SOURCE LIBRARY DEVELOPMENT and TESTING for Rev, it
> would be great and better than some threads that been here latelly.
>
> I won't say I will miss you guys because I know you are not leaving... :-)
>

I second that Sarah - in fact I'd go so far as to say you should consider
yourself banned from leaving :)

I'm going (to try) to stay out of debate on these issues, except to say I am
broadly sympathetic to the problems that you have expressed and feel that
both you and Jerry deserve a big thumbs up for your rational calm and
positive contributions on the subject in the face of distinctly defensive
replies, which you could easily have been tempted to reply to more
"flamishly".

On the positive, I'd second Andre's comment above. I too feel that a
community run open source project and documentation resource, would not only
provide a productive avenue for many of these issues to be channelled, but
go a long way to addressing some of the technical issues raised. It would
also importantly help to address the sense of a void created by the issues
faced by RunRev currently, and compounded in my view by the approach to
marketing and community that is being followed presently.

Guys we can get better contributions from the community to help RunRev
through this patch!

Another positive note! The best things come from working through hard times
- I think RunRev can and will come out of this stronger. But not without the
community and people like Jerry and Sarah passionately on board. I think the
moves to open source the externals is a great sign, I am hopeful about the
longer term implications with regard to more open and co-development
strategies being pursued on the Linux and Android platforms (it just makes
sense), and I am sure that Kevin and RunRev are actively looking at ways to
improve these things.

So how about a regular monthly online conference - working on "FREE OPEN
SOURCE LIBRARY DEVELOPMENT and TESTING for Rev", leading up to a
constructive community show at next years RunRev live event? Say the first
Tuesday of each month?
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Re: Can't start player together on window XP

[Jean-Pierre Soto]

I have reduce the number of player to 2. ( they only play two by two)

The problem is the same.

I can start two player at the same time but  I can't set the filename  
and then start with no delay ( less than 0.1 second) .


Do I load first all the parts of words  in N  player  and start them  
after ? or an other idéa ?



Le 5 août 10 à 11:39, Scott Rossi a écrit :



Recently, Jean-Pierre Soto wrote:


I have made a basic text-to-speech programm. I use 10 player for
playing sound with overlap .
  It work well on Mac platform but on Window XP player start slowly
with no overlap of sounds.

Can I do something ?


Make sure you have QuickTime installed.  If not, I don't know if  
this will

work.

Do you need to have 10 players operating at the same time?  I  
assume you
don't, so you could also try using the minimum number of players  
you need
for simultaneous playback and swap filenames of the players when  
you need

sounds to change.

Regards,

Scott Rossi
Creative Director
Tactile Media, UX Design


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Re: Rodeo, revServer etc.

[Kevin Miller]

On 05/08/2010 01:48, "Sarah Reichelt"  wrote:

> Kevin has given his point of view over Rodeo and revServer, and then
> forbidden us to comment, leaving us without the right of reply. Of
> course it is his list and he is quite at liberty to ban whoever he
> chooses, and if the matter had ended there, I would have let it slide.
> Unfortunately, discussion has continued and has expanded to a direct
> and personal attack on Jerry, which by association is an attack on me.
> So I have decided, reluctantly, to ignore Kevin's instructions and
> post my thoughts on the issue. I realise this will lead to my removal
> from the list, but that is a consequence that I am prepared to accept.
> 
> Before I go, I would like to say goodbye and thank you to everyone
> here. I have thoroughly enjoyed most of the interactions on this list
> and there are many of you here that I regard as real friends, despite
> never having met you in person. There are too many of you to mention
> individually, but you know who you are.

I don't think we need to be quite so dramatic. I asked you not to discuss
Rodeo because it no longer has anything to do with Rev and because you
started to attack Rev as a method of promoting it. I'm sorry you saw my
response as a personal attack, it wasn't. You and Jerry are both welcome on
this list. As I've said I wish you guys all the best, I quite truly do.

> Chipp has repeatedly called on us to provide recipes for our problems,
> but this is not really possible. The first problem is the server
> timeout, which has been stated by RunRev so does not require any
> recipe. The second problem is the varying response times and as the
> same CGI will produce widely varying response times, I am unable to
> provide more of a recipe than that, as already reported to Kevin and
> confirmed by Mark's tests.

Well those tests showed that PHP is the same, and indeed we would expect the
same results on any shared server environment with a variety of
technologies.

In order to determine if there was something more going on, I asked for a
very simple piece of logging - this is what I wrote to Jerry:
> One way to find out if it is something the script is doing is to measure the
> execution time of the whole irev script (i.e. use the long seconds at start,
> and append to a log file at the end). If, after observing a latency issue,
> there are 'spikes' in this measurement it means that the culprit is a
> side-effect of the script, rather than the startup time of the script.

That's all we needed to continue to investigate it.

> Andre's tests have now demonstrated that the timeout issue is in the
> On-Rev server and not in revServer itself. This is excellent news, and
> I would still recommend revServer to anyone. But we were unable to get
> an answer from anyone at RunRev on this subject

This is just patently untrue. You got a response from the CEO. I wrote to
Jerry on 22nd of June at 16:38 with that logging request I pasted above, as
part of an ongoing response to this issue and that was the last I heard. You
could have added that to your code, created a logging text file and sent us
the contents. I suspect with that, and possibly a couple of subsequent
tests, the issue would have been identified weeks ago.

> Part of the problem here is that as RunRev customers, we get very
> little communication from RunRev.

I've already commented and agreed on this. But in your specific case, again
its just untrue. I've been available to Jerry throughout this entire
process. Over the past couple of years, until very recently, we've typically
had a Skype every week. I have a regular slot set aside in my calendar on a
Monday evening at 7:30PM. I know Heather has been very responsive too. I'm
not sure what else you could have asked for.

> It is good to read Kevin's plans for better bug
> reporting, better communication, more products etc., but those of us
> who have been here for a while have heard all this before.

You know, its easy when things are not going well to look at it and say that
everything isn't working or hasn't worked. But I don't think that's a
realistic way to view things. We've had many successes over the years and
many times when our customers have been ecstatic. You're starting out on
your own journey now and I'm sure you'll find aspects of it more challenging
than you expect. I doubt you'll make the same mistakes that I do as we are
very different people, you'll find your own ways to get in a tangle like
every new business out there :) But I will not succumb to the "its all bad
and you can't fix it" mantra any more than you should. That's just not a
realistic way of looking at things.

> Finally, a comment on this list itself. I know this is a long post,
> but it is my last one, so I have to get everything in. Some people on
> this list have a habit of shooting the messenger. Anyone who dares to
> suggest that there is anything less that perfect about RunRev is
> shouted down, and most of them just leave instead 

Re: Can't start player together on window XP

[Scott Rossi]

Recently, Jean-Pierre Soto wrote:

> I have made a basic text-to-speech programm. I use 10 player for
> playing sound with overlap .
>   It work well on Mac platform but on Window XP player start slowly
> with no overlap of sounds.
> 
> Can I do something ?

Make sure you have QuickTime installed.  If not, I don't know if this will
work.

Do you need to have 10 players operating at the same time?  I assume you
don't, so you could also try using the minimum number of players you need
for simultaneous playback and swap filenames of the players when you need
sounds to change.

Regards,

Scott Rossi
Creative Director
Tactile Media, UX Design


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Re: Long-term stability of revVideoGrabber?

[Ben Rubinstein]

Thanks Stephen.

I picked up on your reference to the sound settings issue in #3712 and made a 
new explicit report at

http://quality.runrev.com/qacenter/show_bug.cgi?id=8886

(see also #8887, #8889).

(I noted your remarks about sound going out sync but didn't do anything in the 
absence of reproducing this myself.)


I will obviously now be setting up some sort of soak testing rig, which might 
flush out some other issues.  At present the only blocker issue I know of is 
the audio settings, I'm trying to establish if there are others.


> There has been talk of a new, privately commissioned external for
> audio/video. Stay tuned.
Is there any timescale on this talk?

Many thanks,

Ben

On 05/08/2010 09:50, stephen barncard wrote:

The sound component is broken on the Mac version of videograbber in two
ways:

1. There is a sound panel to set parameters, but they don't always 'stick'
when set and there is no instruction available on how to save the params for
the next time as one can do with the video settings.
2. There is a intermittent bug in Quicktime that can cause the sound to be
ahead of the picture.  I've used a few applications that rely on QT for
video capture that have the same sync problems. The only thing that has
worked for me for pro video capture on the mac is Final Cut Pro.

Too bad, too. I had created just the app I always wanted for video archiving
integrated with a database - and had captured quite a few videos that I
eventually had to do over with Final Cut. Oh well.

However, for short clips VG might work very well.  Not sure about the long
term - it may have to be restarted occasionally. Video is hard. This memory
intensive stuff has a tendency to crash more often.   Videograbber has all
the stuff you need to capture - you should be able to set up an automated
test for your idea in little time.

There has been talk of a new, privately commissioned external for
audio/video. Stay tuned.


sqb

On 5 August 2010 01:26, Ben Rubinstein  wrote:


I'm embarking on a project for which I'll need to have an unnattended unit
capturing short video clips (30-180 seconds) repeatedly over a long period;
and need to pick my technology.

Does anyone have experience of using the rVG over a long term like this?
  Does it hold up?

War stories, witness statements, views or suggestions gratefully received.

TIA,

Ben

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Re: Rodeo, revServer etc.

[Pierre Sahores]

Sarah,

Let me say in just some words. I just hope you will be back to this community 
witch always got so much from your always incredible fine work and human 
generosity as soon as possible. Until that, tu vas me manquer. Prends soin de 
toi. Reviens vite.

Kind Regards,

Pierre

PS : Time to time, i had to go over sad difficultly trackables glichies or 
misconfigurations along i was working on one n-tier project or an other. To 
solve them, the best way to go went always to entierly clone the incrimined 
apps on the development box, in localhost mode : Apache, PHP, Rev, the SQL 
backend, etc... This solution is, in practice, always very helpfull when we 
need to get hands back on a special case problem and n-tier apps are always 
relying on special cases solutions, is'nt ;-)

Le 5 août 2010 à 03:47, Chipp Walters a écrit :

> Sarah,
> 
> It would be so sad to see you go. You have been a well respected and
> most helpful community member for so long. And, I'm especially sorry
> to see you go in such a sad way.
> 
> I understand that you and Jerry have ventured into some new uncharted
> waters and that architecting server apps while starting a brand new
> company can be a daunting task for anyone. Heck, Chris and I have
> helped Jerry create architectures for multiple-tier server
> applications for a number of his clients in the past, and it's never
> an easy task. And, truth be known, I don't know any more than either
> of you when it comes to the hard core details of what's going on at
> those servers AND that's why I have people like Chris and Andre and
> Pierre and this list who help steer me clear of some of the potholes
> you guys evidently stepped into on this project.
> 
> Still, my understanding is that Jerry is in weekly contact with Kevin
> via RevSelect, so I suspect communication isn't a HUGE problem, and
> you all have done a marvelous job at promoting your application here
> on the use-list, so i'll chalk up the last minute parting cheap shots
> toward Rev to an overall frustration at this whole situation.
> 
> I get it you are upset. The fact you can't reproduce your problems may
> be due to many different issues, as both Andre and Kevin point out.
> Certainly trying to debug these issues in a shared hosting environment
> didn't simplify things. But how were you to know? I think Rev should
> have probably taken a more active role in bug and recipe hunting,
> especially since there are so many factors and given the limited
> expertise. But there are ways to test these things and to produce a
> recipe, and that is all I was saying. Having this discussion here
> after publicly posting on your blog to your users, most of whom follow
> this list should be no surprise. We all want to know how real the
> problem is and why it happens.
> 
> You have been and are an extremely valuable resource to this community
> and will be sorely missed if you go. I've enjoyed working with you on
> projects in the past and have always found you to be the highest in
> terms of integrity and professionalism. I would encourage you to
> reconsider leaving.
> 
> On Wednesday, August 4, 2010, Sarah Reichelt  wrote:
>> Hi All,
>> 
>> Kevin has given his point of view over Rodeo and revServer, and then
>> forbidden us to comment, leaving us without the right of reply. Of
>> course it is his list and he is quite at liberty to ban whoever he
>> chooses, and if the matter had ended there, I would have let it slide.
>> Unfortunately, discussion has continued and has expanded to a direct
>> and personal attack on Jerry, which by association is an attack on me.
>> So I have decided, reluctantly, to ignore Kevin's instructions and
>> post my thoughts on the issue. I realise this will lead to my removal
>> from the list, but that is a consequence that I am prepared to accept.
>> 
>> Before I go, I would like to say goodbye and thank you to everyone
>> here. I have thoroughly enjoyed most of the interactions on this list
>> and there are many of you here that I regard as real friends, despite
>> never having met you in person. There are too many of you to mention
>> individually, but you know who you are.
>> 
>> Now on to revServer: as soon as I heard about revServer, I was
>> incredibly excited. I bought it as soon as it was released and I
>> converted my entire web site to run using irev scripts. RunRev even
>> used my examples page in their promotional mail outs, so I think
>> everyone can see that I am a great supporter. The advertising material
>> announced "Blistering Performance" which unfortunately never
>> eventuated. Even on my modest web pages, often a page would only
>> half-load. I frequently had to tell people just to give it a minute
>> and the data came through in the end. However for my own web site,
>> this was not really a problem.
>> 
>> I think nobody will dispute that the On-Rev client is a big
>> disappointment. It's primary feature was the debugging, but as soon as
>> I added a new domain to my site, this 

Re: Long-term stability of revVideoGrabber?

[stephen barncard]

The sound component is broken on the Mac version of videograbber in two
ways:

1. There is a sound panel to set parameters, but they don't always 'stick'
when set and there is no instruction available on how to save the params for
the next time as one can do with the video settings.
2. There is a intermittent bug in Quicktime that can cause the sound to be
ahead of the picture.  I've used a few applications that rely on QT for
video capture that have the same sync problems. The only thing that has
worked for me for pro video capture on the mac is Final Cut Pro.

Too bad, too. I had created just the app I always wanted for video archiving
integrated with a database - and had captured quite a few videos that I
eventually had to do over with Final Cut. Oh well.

However, for short clips VG might work very well.  Not sure about the long
term - it may have to be restarted occasionally. Video is hard. This memory
intensive stuff has a tendency to crash more often.   Videograbber has all
the stuff you need to capture - you should be able to set up an automated
test for your idea in little time.

There has been talk of a new, privately commissioned external for
audio/video. Stay tuned.


sqb

On 5 August 2010 01:26, Ben Rubinstein  wrote:

> I'm embarking on a project for which I'll need to have an unnattended unit
> capturing short video clips (30-180 seconds) repeatedly over a long period;
> and need to pick my technology.
>
> Does anyone have experience of using the rVG over a long term like this?
>  Does it hold up?
>
> War stories, witness statements, views or suggestions gratefully received.
>
> TIA,
>
> Ben
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-- 



Stephen Barncard
San Francisco Ca. USA

more about sqb  
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Can't start player together on window XP

[Jean-Pierre Soto]

Hello,

I have made a basic text-to-speech programm. I use 10 player for  
playing sound with overlap .
 It work well on Mac platform but on Window XP player start slowly  
with no overlap of sounds.


Can I do something ?

Thanks

Revolution 2.7
Window XP on a MacBookPro 



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Long-term stability of revVideoGrabber?

[Ben Rubinstein]

I'm embarking on a project for which I'll need to have an unnattended unit 
capturing short video clips (30-180 seconds) repeatedly over a long period; 
and need to pick my technology.


Does anyone have experience of using the rVG over a long term like this?  Does 
it hold up?


War stories, witness statements, views or suggestions gratefully received.

TIA,

Ben
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Re: Keeping On-Rev Scripts and Data From Prying Eyes

[Pierre Sahores]

In waiting for the password proteced stacks libs support, it can become 
preferable to store the irev scripts inside the cgi-bin directory.

Best, 

Pierre


Le 5 août 2010 à 03:15, Richard Gaskin a écrit :

> Michael Kann wrote:
> 
>> I didn't see what switched?
> 
> The indenting may not look clear if you're not viewing this with a monospaced 
> font, but the scriptname.irev is outside of the public_html folder in the 
> second example.
> 
> 
>> So if your directory structure looks like this:
>> 
>> root/
>>   public_html/
>>  mypage.irev
>>  scriptname.irev
>> 
>> ...you could switch it to:
>> 
>> root/
>>   public_html/
>>  mypage.irev
>>   scriptname.irev
>> 
>> ...and in your mypage.irev you'd change the reference to scriptname.irev to:
>> 
>> 
> 
> 
> --
> Richard Gaskin
> Fourth World
> Rev training and consulting: http://www.fourthworld.com
> Webzine for Rev developers: http://www.revjournal.com
> revJournal blog: http://revjournal.com/blog.irv
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--
Pierre Sahores
mobile : (33) 6 03 95 77 70

www.wrds.com
www.sahores-conseil.com






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