Re: [OT] Win convention question
First of all you should delete you registry entries and application files which is normal. What is ultra bad is to delete the folder if there is any preferences. If you need to reinstall you will have teh same problem as with runrev resetting all your prefs again... Very bad... GTR does this and you loose ALL your scores, car modifications, settings and if you added mp3s to the music folder, you will loose those too! It happened but found a backup I was only too glad to have made! I can't tell you how disgusted I was when I found out it had deleted everything. Secondly, if you use the command get shell(set) you will find a bunch of variables to help you find what you need. Notice this is not the regular PC installation you see everyday by default! Also note, all the first words can be called via %NAME% to get that value in a shell. like %SystemRoot% is your system folder... C:\home\Administratorset ALLUSERSPROFILE=D:\home\All Users - where the my documents would be APPDATA=D:\home\Administrator\Application Data ClusterLog=C:\WINNT\Cluster\cluster.log CommonProgramFiles=D:\app\common COMPUTERNAME=ZEROZEROSIX ComSpec=C:\WINNT\system32\cmd.exe HOMEDRIVE=C: HOMEPATH=\home\Administrator LOGONSERVER=\\ZEROZEROSIX NUMBER_OF_PROCESSORS=2 OS=Windows_NT Path=D:\app\Windows Resource Kits\Tools\;C:\WINNT\system32;C:\WINNT;C:\WINNT\Sys tem32\Wbem;D:\app\SecureCRT\;D:\app\AIXNT;D:\app\Symantec\pcAnywhere\ PATHEXT=.COM;.EXE;.BAT;.CMD;.VBS;.VBE;.JS;.JSE;.WSF;.WSH PROCESSOR_ARCHITECTURE=x86 PROCESSOR_IDENTIFIER=x86 Family 15 Model 2 Stepping 9, GenuineIntel PROCESSOR_LEVEL=15 PROCESSOR_REVISION=0209 ProgramFiles=D:\app PROMPT=$P$G SESSIONNAME=Console SystemDrive=C: SystemRoot=C:\WINNT TEMP=D:\home\ADMINI~1\LOCALS~1\Temp TMP=D:\home\ADMINI~1\LOCALS~1\Temp USERDOMAIN=ZEROZEROSIX USERNAME=Administrator USERPROFILE=D:\home\Administrator windir=C:\WINNT What you want is either %ProgramFiles% --- the default application folder where you would install your stuff or %CommonProgramFiles% --- settings - but optional or %USERPROFILE% where my documents would be and the famous D:\home\USERNAME\Application Data\myapp\ for example... AFAIK, it works on NT4 until W2K3 no prob... So first, the settings should be either in - the registry (not the best place but easy to find) - the program's folder - default for all programs - the program's common files - usually shared information for applications although it's not always for sharing purposes that it's there - I would avoid this anyway... For multiusers, the prefs is either in the registry or the UserProfile where you want. but the userprofile app data folder is the right place. Windows HIG are futile ;)) cheers Xavier On 02.02.2005 03:16:20 use-revolution-bounces wrote: Frank D. Engel, Jr. wrote: On Feb 1, 2005, at 7:19 PM, Richard Gaskin wrote: On a Mac, you customarily install an app by dragging the app or a folder from a DMG to your drive. Uninstalling means simply dragging it to the trach, and any preferences files are left behind. On Windows I use Wise Install to copy the app into its own folder in /Program Files/, and when the app is run it puts its prefs data in a folder within the user's Documents and Settings folder. Historically I've treated everything in the Documents and Settings folder as belonging to the user, and do not bother with uninstalling. Moreover, on multi-user systems I may not know where to find all of the user Documents and Settings folders for everyone who may have run the app. So what is the normal convention for uninstall on Win XP? Should I: a) leave prefs in the user's Documents and Settings files as is common with files in the Mac's Preferences folder? b) Delete only the prefs data in the current user's Documents and Settings folder? c) Attempt to delete prefs from the Documents and Settings folders for all users on the computer? Extra bonus points for Win HIG verse and chapter; I couldn't find the section on how to handle such things. You can't possibly be expected to track down prefs files for each user on a multiuser system. Consider that the uninstaller may be running on a system where the software would be accessed by users who have roaming profiles on a windows server; the preferences would not be stored on the local machine, and the account under which the installer is run may not even have access to the users' profiles in order to delete the prefs files even if it tried! Good point. So I can rule out #3. So should I bother with #2, or treat the user's Documents folder like Mac developers treat the Prefs folder and not bother with deleting it? Is there an established convention? I could only find a recommendation from Micro$oft on cleaning up any added registry entries, and I'm already doing that. What are the bonus points good 4, btw? ;-) At the moment, Karma. :) But if someone can point me to where the Win HIG tells me I should leave the user's
Re: [OT] Win convention question
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: First of all you should delete you registry entries and application files which is normal. What is ultra bad is to delete the folder if there is any preferences. If you need to reinstall you will have teh same problem as with runrev resetting all your prefs again... Very bad... Agreed. What I've done instead is use the Application Settings folder, which is hidden from users be default. Thanks to the handy tips at SonsOThunder.com I was able to find the constant that Win98 through XP uses to return the path to that folder: specialFolderPath(26) So now I don't touch anything in the user's My Documents folder, only Application Settings. I think I'll cover storing prefs in my next revJournal article. There's far more to it than it would seem at first glance. One of this byproducts of this odyssey is a bit of a disappointment in Apple: it's a rare day when Micro$oft offers a clear usability advantage of Apple, yet Micro$oft has a stronger position on an app cleaning up after itself than Apple's toss the app in the Trash and let the user figure out what to do with the prefs file approach. -- Richard Gaskin Fourth World Media Corporation ___ [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.FourthWorld.com ___ use-revolution mailing list use-revolution@lists.runrev.com http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
Re: [OT] Win convention question
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 Why don't you just use an existing installation package such as Inno Setup (http://www.jrsoftware.org/isinfo.php), since that will provide these things for you for free? Inno Setup will let you specify files to be copied, where to place them, registry entries to be installed (and removed), it automatically handles placing your program in Add/Remove Programs (and provides an uninstaller), and it is used by numerous other projects, so that the interface will be familiar to many people (and it's quite similar to many other installation programs, enough so that even someone who never did use an Inno Setup installer but who has installed other programs should have no trouble using it). It allows for a great deal of customization, and if you get the ISTool script editor in the QuickStart pack, it is very easy to use... well, for a Windows program anyway ;-) You can also trigger an external program, so if there are oddball tasks to be performed when installing or uninstalling your program, you can create a small tool with just the functionality needed to handle those particular tasks, and call on that tool during the installation or uninstallation process. Did I mention that this is free? Other tools are available as well... On Feb 2, 2005, at 6:32 AM, Richard Gaskin wrote: [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: First of all you should delete you registry entries and application files which is normal. What is ultra bad is to delete the folder if there is any preferences. If you need to reinstall you will have teh same problem as with runrev resetting all your prefs again... Very bad... Agreed. What I've done instead is use the Application Settings folder, which is hidden from users be default. Thanks to the handy tips at SonsOThunder.com I was able to find the constant that Win98 through XP uses to return the path to that folder: specialFolderPath(26) So now I don't touch anything in the user's My Documents folder, only Application Settings. I think I'll cover storing prefs in my next revJournal article. There's far more to it than it would seem at first glance. One of this byproducts of this odyssey is a bit of a disappointment in Apple: it's a rare day when Micro$oft offers a clear usability advantage of Apple, yet Micro$oft has a stronger position on an app cleaning up after itself than Apple's toss the app in the Trash and let the user figure out what to do with the prefs file approach. -- Richard Gaskin Fourth World Media Corporation ___ [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.FourthWorld.com ___ use-revolution mailing list use-revolution@lists.runrev.com http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution - --- Frank D. Engel, Jr. [EMAIL PROTECTED] $ ln -s /usr/share/kjvbible /usr/manual $ true | cat /usr/manual | grep John 3:16 John 3:16 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life. $ -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.2.4 (Darwin) iD8DBQFCAPCw7aqtWrR9cZoRAuTBAJ0TIWPTsfjpDBAFVDQ8GsfPjK3IVgCghVYl tw1WIqc6h2yu76YZOlOig8c= =UPUb -END PGP SIGNATURE- ___ $0 Web Hosting with up to 120MB web space, 1000 MB Transfer 10 Personalized POP and Web E-mail Accounts, and much more. Signup at www.doteasy.com ___ use-revolution mailing list use-revolution@lists.runrev.com http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
Re: [OT] Win convention question
But it can't remove what it doesn't know about, and in my case there are elements in my app very much like cache files that should ideally be removed but don't exist during installation, so no installer can know about them at install time. While I definately agree with this statement, InnoSetup has an advantage in the uninstallation area. It can be scripted to removed files that did not exist during Installation. You could script it to either read a log to delete what's new, or you can script it to delete the Cache folder itself. It also has 1 of the biggest advantages of all though, it's free! Derek Bump Dreamscape Software Compress Images Easily with JPEGCompress http://www.dreamscapesoftware.com ___ use-revolution mailing list use-revolution@lists.runrev.com http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
[OT] Win convention question
On a Mac, you customarily install an app by dragging the app or a folder from a DMG to your drive. Uninstalling means simply dragging it to the trach, and any preferences files are left behind. On Windows I use Wise Install to copy the app into its own folder in /Program Files/, and when the app is run it puts its prefs data in a folder within the user's Documents and Settings folder. Historically I've treated everything in the Documents and Settings folder as belonging to the user, and do not bother with uninstalling. Moreover, on multi-user systems I may not know where to find all of the user Documents and Settings folders for everyone who may have run the app. So what is the normal convention for uninstall on Win XP? Should I: a) leave prefs in the user's Documents and Settings files as is common with files in the Mac's Preferences folder? b) Delete only the prefs data in the current user's Documents and Settings folder? c) Attempt to delete prefs from the Documents and Settings folders for all users on the computer? Extra bonus points for Win HIG verse and chapter; I couldn't find the section on how to handle such things. -- Richard Gaskin Fourth World Media Corporation ___ [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.FourthWorld.com ___ use-revolution mailing list use-revolution@lists.runrev.com http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
Re: [OT] Win convention question
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 You can't possibly be expected to track down prefs files for each user on a multiuser system. Consider that the uninstaller may be running on a system where the software would be accessed by users who have roaming profiles on a windows server; the preferences would not be stored on the local machine, and the account under which the installer is run may not even have access to the users' profiles in order to delete the prefs files even if it tried! What are the bonus points good 4, btw? ;-) On Feb 1, 2005, at 7:19 PM, Richard Gaskin wrote: On a Mac, you customarily install an app by dragging the app or a folder from a DMG to your drive. Uninstalling means simply dragging it to the trach, and any preferences files are left behind. On Windows I use Wise Install to copy the app into its own folder in /Program Files/, and when the app is run it puts its prefs data in a folder within the user's Documents and Settings folder. Historically I've treated everything in the Documents and Settings folder as belonging to the user, and do not bother with uninstalling. Moreover, on multi-user systems I may not know where to find all of the user Documents and Settings folders for everyone who may have run the app. So what is the normal convention for uninstall on Win XP? Should I: a) leave prefs in the user's Documents and Settings files as is common with files in the Mac's Preferences folder? b) Delete only the prefs data in the current user's Documents and Settings folder? c) Attempt to delete prefs from the Documents and Settings folders for all users on the computer? Extra bonus points for Win HIG verse and chapter; I couldn't find the section on how to handle such things. -- Richard Gaskin Fourth World Media Corporation ___ [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.FourthWorld.com ___ use-revolution mailing list use-revolution@lists.runrev.com http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution - --- Frank D. Engel, Jr. [EMAIL PROTECTED] $ ln -s /usr/share/kjvbible /usr/manual $ true | cat /usr/manual | grep John 3:16 John 3:16 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life. $ -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.2.4 (Darwin) iD8DBQFCACPE7aqtWrR9cZoRAmlKAJ9Cz7C0NTrr39BRv/JvWQaXJmikFgCdF0lu 5M79eRCx51RuEUFqRfv9Kt8= =c/5/ -END PGP SIGNATURE- ___ $0 Web Hosting with up to 120MB web space, 1000 MB Transfer 10 Personalized POP and Web E-mail Accounts, and much more. Signup at www.doteasy.com ___ use-revolution mailing list use-revolution@lists.runrev.com http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
Re: [OT] Win convention question
Frank D. Engel, Jr. wrote: On Feb 1, 2005, at 7:19 PM, Richard Gaskin wrote: On a Mac, you customarily install an app by dragging the app or a folder from a DMG to your drive. Uninstalling means simply dragging it to the trach, and any preferences files are left behind. On Windows I use Wise Install to copy the app into its own folder in /Program Files/, and when the app is run it puts its prefs data in a folder within the user's Documents and Settings folder. Historically I've treated everything in the Documents and Settings folder as belonging to the user, and do not bother with uninstalling. Moreover, on multi-user systems I may not know where to find all of the user Documents and Settings folders for everyone who may have run the app. So what is the normal convention for uninstall on Win XP? Should I: a) leave prefs in the user's Documents and Settings files as is common with files in the Mac's Preferences folder? b) Delete only the prefs data in the current user's Documents and Settings folder? c) Attempt to delete prefs from the Documents and Settings folders for all users on the computer? Extra bonus points for Win HIG verse and chapter; I couldn't find the section on how to handle such things. You can't possibly be expected to track down prefs files for each user on a multiuser system. Consider that the uninstaller may be running on a system where the software would be accessed by users who have roaming profiles on a windows server; the preferences would not be stored on the local machine, and the account under which the installer is run may not even have access to the users' profiles in order to delete the prefs files even if it tried! Good point. So I can rule out #3. So should I bother with #2, or treat the user's Documents folder like Mac developers treat the Prefs folder and not bother with deleting it? Is there an established convention? I could only find a recommendation from Micro$oft on cleaning up any added registry entries, and I'm already doing that. What are the bonus points good 4, btw? ;-) At the moment, Karma. :) But if someone can point me to where the Win HIG tells me I should leave the user's Documents and Settings folder alone I'll give them a license for their choice of WebMerge or devolution. -- Richard Gaskin Fourth World Media Corporation ___ [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.FourthWorld.com ___ use-revolution mailing list use-revolution@lists.runrev.com http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
Re: [OT] Win convention question
Richard, I don't know if this is of any use. Interesting reading, anyway. A lot of apps seem to break these specs. Design Specifications and Guidelines - Integrating with the System http://msdn.microsoft.com/library/default.asp?url=/library/en-us/dnwue/html/ch11d.asp Then click: Installation (covers uninstalling) Pat [EMAIL PROTECTED] - Original Message - From: Richard Gaskin [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: How to use Revolution use-revolution@lists.runrev.com Sent: Wednesday, February 02, 2005 10:19 AM Subject: [OT] Win convention question On a Mac, you customarily install an app by dragging the app or a folder from a DMG to your drive. Uninstalling means simply dragging it to the trach, and any preferences files are left behind. On Windows I use Wise Install to copy the app into its own folder in /Program Files/, and when the app is run it puts its prefs data in a folder within the user's Documents and Settings folder. Historically I've treated everything in the Documents and Settings folder as belonging to the user, and do not bother with uninstalling. Moreover, on multi-user systems I may not know where to find all of the user Documents and Settings folders for everyone who may have run the app. So what is the normal convention for uninstall on Win XP? Should I: a) leave prefs in the user's Documents and Settings files as is common with files in the Mac's Preferences folder? b) Delete only the prefs data in the current user's Documents and Settings folder? c) Attempt to delete prefs from the Documents and Settings folders for all users on the computer? Extra bonus points for Win HIG verse and chapter; I couldn't find the section on how to handle such things. -- Richard Gaskin Fourth World Media Corporation ___ [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.FourthWorld.com ___ use-revolution mailing list use-revolution@lists.runrev.com http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution ___ use-revolution mailing list use-revolution@lists.runrev.com http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
Re: [OT] Win convention question
Pat Trendler wrote: I don't know if this is of any use. Interesting reading, anyway. A lot of apps seem to break these specs. Design Specifications and Guidelines - Integrating with the System http://msdn.microsoft.com/library/default.asp?url=/library/en-us/dnwue/html/ch11d.asp Then click: Installation (covers uninstalling) Drag. I was hoping to find an excuse to be as lazy as OS X encourages developers to be. Oh well, won't be hard to accomodate... Thanks for the link. -- Richard Gaskin Fourth World Media Corporation ___ [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.FourthWorld.com ___ use-revolution mailing list use-revolution@lists.runrev.com http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
