Re: How to get the difference between two lists?
On 05 Apr 2005, at 20:03, Dar Scott wrote: snip // filter version function shortListDar5 pL, pEx filter pL without replaceText(pEx,"\n","|") return pL end shortListDar5 Dar This was the reason I was lamenting that rev's filter "command" is not fully regex compatible. Your replaceText part returns a "|" delimited list. But the "|" (or) does not work in the filter command. Not as in filter x without "5|6|11|18" nor as in filter x without "[56]|1[18]". The "|" seems even to be ignored between [ ] brackets. Gr W. ___ use-revolution mailing list use-revolution@lists.runrev.com http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
Re: How to get the difference between two lists?
On Apr 5, 2005, at 11:12 AM, Wouter wrote: Could you compile a oneliner regex that worked in rev's filter function? Not one that worked. Only the replaceText() worked and then for smaller lists. This is what I tried: // replaceText version function shortListDar3 pL, pEx return replaceText(pL,"(?m)^" & replaceText(pEx,"\n","\n|^") & "\n",empty) end shortListDar3 // filter version function shortListDar5 pL, pEx filter pL without replaceText(pEx,"\n","|") return pL end shortListDar5 Dar ___ use-revolution mailing list use-revolution@lists.runrev.com http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
Re: How to get the difference between two lists?
Could you compile a oneliner regex that worked in rev's filter function? completely amazed, W. On 05 Apr 2005, at 18:58, Dar Scott wrote: On Apr 5, 2005, at 7:40 AM, Wouter wrote: It would have been nice if the "filter" function was fully regex compatible then Dar's idea of turning it into a regex statement could produce something like a one-liner. I tried it and it was a oneliner. It was awfully slow. It took six seconds (IIRC) for a thousand and couldn't compile the regex for 10,000. There have been several times when I tried using the replaceText() function and was surprised at how slow it was. I may be thinking about it wrong. Dar -- ** DSC (Dar Scott Consulting & Dar's Lab) http://www.swcp.com/dsc/ Programming Services and Software ** ___ use-revolution mailing list use-revolution@lists.runrev.com http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution ___ use-revolution mailing list use-revolution@lists.runrev.com http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
Re: How to get the difference between two lists?
On Apr 5, 2005, at 7:40 AM, Wouter wrote: It would have been nice if the "filter" function was fully regex compatible then Dar's idea of turning it into a regex statement could produce something like a one-liner. I tried it and it was a oneliner. It was awfully slow. It took six seconds (IIRC) for a thousand and couldn't compile the regex for 10,000. There have been several times when I tried using the replaceText() function and was surprised at how slow it was. I may be thinking about it wrong. Dar -- ** DSC (Dar Scott Consulting & Dar's Lab) http://www.swcp.com/dsc/ Programming Services and Software ** ___ use-revolution mailing list use-revolution@lists.runrev.com http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
Re: How to get the difference between two lists?
On 04 Apr 2005, at 05:44, Dar Scott wrote: On Apr 3, 2005, at 9:04 PM, Ken Ray wrote: I can of course do a repeat loop through the small list and remove those items from the comprehensive list, but I'm wondering if there's a faster way to do this. Some wild ideas: 1. Convert the smaller list into a regex and use replaceText(). snip It would have been nice if the "filter" function was fully regex compatible then Dar's idea of turning it into a regex statement could produce something like a one-liner. For the proposed example with the current state of the filter function it needs 2 lines (not counting the lines for the preparation of the regex)3 filter tOrigList without "[56]" filter tOrigList without "1[18]" Gr W. ___ use-revolution mailing list use-revolution@lists.runrev.com http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
Re: How to get the difference between two lists?
On Apr 3, 2005, at 9:04 PM, Ken Ray wrote: I can of course do a repeat loop through the small list and remove those items from the comprehensive list, but I'm wondering if there's a faster way to do this. I took a break and tried my hand at this. The function using offset did better than array element deletion in some cases. The function using replaceText() did poorly for medium size lists and bailed out for large lists to be removed. I think there is something fishy (that is n^2) in replaceText(). The last one was my attempt to avoid 'line n' and is similar to Frank's, I think. It was still a little bit slower than array element deletion in my tests. function shortListDar2 pList, pExcludeList local resultList = "" put lf before pList put 0 into lastUsedChar if char -1 of pList is not lf then put lf after pList repeat for each line ex in pExcludeList put lf & ex & lf into exWithLF get offset(exWithLf,pList,lastUsedChar) if it is not zero then put char lastUsedChar+1 to lastUsedChar+it of pList after resultList put lastUsedChar + it + length(exWithLF) - 1 into lastUsedChar end if end repeat put char lastUsedChar+1 to -1 of pList after resultList return char 2 to -2 of resultList end shortListDar2 --function shortListDar3 pList, pExcludeList -- get "(?m)^" & replaceText(pExcludeList,"\n","\n|^") & "\n" -- return replaceText(pList,it,empty) --end shortListDar3 function shortListDar4 pList, pExcludeList local resultList put lf & "10" after pExcludeList put line 1 of pExcludeList into checkLine put 1 into charOffset repeat for each line listLine in pList repeat while checkLine < listLine add length(checkLine)+1 to charOffset put line 1 of (char charoffset to charoffset+20 of pExcludeList) into checkLine end repeat if listLine < checkline then put listLine & lf after resultList end if end repeat return char 1 to -2 of resultList end shortListDar4 -- ** DSC (Dar Scott Consulting & Dar's Lab) http://www.swcp.com/dsc/ Programming Services and Software ** ___ use-revolution mailing list use-revolution@lists.runrev.com http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
Re: How to get the difference between two lists?
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 put sourceArray into sectArray intersect sectArray with exceptArray repeat for each line k in the keys of sectArray delete variable sourceArray[k] end repeat On Apr 4, 2005, at 5:46 PM, David Vaughan wrote: On 05/04/2005, at 0:38, Ken Ray <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: On 4/4/05 1:39 AM, "Monte Goulding" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: Ken (and all the other ingenious people), you have something against the "intersect" command? Convert both lists to arrays and intersect them leaving only the non-common elements. My understanding is the intersect command creates an array with only common keys. If there was an inverse of the command it would be perfect as you say. I added this as an enhancement request to Bugzilla (Bug #2763 if anyone wants to vote on it). I'll vote for it Ken. While I am at it I might vote that I do not reverse-read documentation as well ;-) cheers David Ken Ray Sons of Thunder Software ___ use-revolution mailing list use-revolution@lists.runrev.com http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution - --- Frank D. Engel, Jr. <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> $ ln -s /usr/share/kjvbible /usr/manual $ true | cat /usr/manual | grep "John 3:16" John 3:16 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life. $ -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.2.4 (Darwin) iD8DBQFCUbhe7aqtWrR9cZoRAnLrAKCIW7F2FUuw1nlySpVd5IOdRF0C7ACgiWdm yl4goDLYuppb5TVh7V72aX0= =JJJw -END PGP SIGNATURE- ___ $0 Web Hosting with up to 200MB web space, 1000 MB Transfer 10 Personalized POP and Web E-mail Accounts, and much more. Signup at www.doteasy.com ___ use-revolution mailing list use-revolution@lists.runrev.com http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
Re: How to get the difference between two lists?
On 05/04/2005, at 0:38, Ken Ray <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: On 4/4/05 1:39 AM, "Monte Goulding" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: Ken (and all the other ingenious people), you have something against the "intersect" command? Convert both lists to arrays and intersect them leaving only the non-common elements. My understanding is the intersect command creates an array with only common keys. If there was an inverse of the command it would be perfect as you say. I added this as an enhancement request to Bugzilla (Bug #2763 if anyone wants to vote on it). I'll vote for it Ken. While I am at it I might vote that I do not reverse-read documentation as well ;-) cheers David Ken Ray Sons of Thunder Software ___ use-revolution mailing list use-revolution@lists.runrev.com http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
Re: How to get the difference between two lists?
On Apr 4, 2005, at 1:50 PM, Frank D. Engel, Jr. wrote: If the DB is properly indexed, there is no way that Transcript should be able to perform that kind of sort faster than the DB server. An SQL server should be able to use an index to perform that kind of sort substantially faster than it could be done by a generic sorting algorithm, such as what Rev would need to use with its 'sort' command. That was my thought as well which is why I wanted to clarify the statement. The only major exception is when the client is distributed among multiple computers (different people accessing the server simultaneously with the client on separate machines per user) and the database server is on hardware which is being very heavily used. In this case, the client may be able to sort the incoming data faster than the DB can, only due to the server being slowed down by a heavy processing load of multiple other users. However, there would need to be a rather extreme number of users for a correctly indexed database to slow down to this point, at least with a query like that one, since the index should allow the server to just read off the needed data in a sorted order to begin with, rather than needing to take any extra steps to sort it at all. Complex views might complicate the matter somewhat, but last time I checked, MySQL did not support views (a somewhat strange omission for such a popular db server...) Views were just barely added with the 5.0 release. -- Trevor DeVore Blue Mango Multimedia [EMAIL PROTECTED] ___ use-revolution mailing list use-revolution@lists.runrev.com http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
Re: How to get the difference between two lists?
I'm sure all of this is application specific, but generally speaking if you are pulling data from MySQL and _then_ sorting it in Transcript faster than in-database, there is probably something non-optimal about the database schema or queries. Generally speaking, when I'm working on a web application that needs to handle a lot of hits, it's a huge red flag if I have to post-sort anything out of the database. That's not to say Rev can't take the wheel and do a pretty good job (kudos to Rev), but I can't remember an instance where I couldn't make more of an impact working on the database side of things. With that said, if it's a factor of needing to do _other_ things in Rev at the same time, programming efficiency, etc- then it's a perfectly fine solution. I would be shocked to find that Rev is better optimized for sorting than MySQL in any general sense. I'm wondering if it's worth pulling out any more specifics that someone can share about their table structures, queries, etc? Please note I don't mean that sorting should literally be offloaded back to the database- but that there is almost always a fast way to get it that way in the first place, especially if we're just dealing with recID lookups and sorts. - Brian I've been heavily using Rev cgi and mySQL during the past few months, and I found out that extracting raw data from the db and processing them (sorting, comparing...) in Transcript is most of the time much faster than writing sophisticated SQL code... ___ use-revolution mailing list use-revolution@lists.runrev.com http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
Re: How to get the difference between two lists?
Oh, 1 thing I forgot : I didn't find the syntax for the SQL equivalent of Transcript "sort international" JB ___ use-revolution mailing list use-revolution@lists.runrev.com http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
Re: How to get the difference between two lists?
I must confess that I'm much more fluent in Transcript than in SQL, so productivity-wise, I feel more confortable writing complex transcript than complex SQL... Nevertheless I'm working on a project involving a table with 23,000 entries (so far) and 35 fields in each (total weight 5Mb) that makes heavy use of indexes. I have SQL requests involving at least 5 to 7 fields, that extract 12 to 20 flds, and on which I perform successive sorts. for instance : SELECT A, B, C, D, E, F, G FROM myTable WHERE A>10 AND B>A AND H>G etc... the selection can reach 1000 to 1500 lines and then : sort lines of myRequest ascending international by item 6 of each sort lines of myRequest ascending numeric by item 5 of each sort lines of myRequest ascending numeric by item 4 of each sort lines of myRequest ascending international by item 2 of each etc and then further processing, like grouping lines in which item 1 contains similar values to be displayed in different tables in a HTML page and / or comparing values of item 6 of each line with a set of values already stored in a field of another table, etc. then build (rather complex) HTML pages by reading template txt files and replacing certain kew words with HTML code build in the same script around data from the db... --- I didn't perform any speed test, but the general feeling is that cgi requests are performed significantly faster when most sorting / processing is done in Transcript than in SQL... I also have a client web app (made with Rev) that accesses the same db / server, and the feeling is the same... JB > Do you mean that the transcript sorting code executes faster than the > mySQL doing the sorting (with something like 'SELECT ID, FirstName, > LastName FROM people ORDER BY LastName') or that it is just easier for > you to handle everything in transcript rather than figuring out the SQL > syntax to perform some of the sorts, joins, etc.? ___ use-revolution mailing list use-revolution@lists.runrev.com http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
Re: How to get the difference between two lists?
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 If the DB is properly indexed, there is no way that Transcript should be able to perform that kind of sort faster than the DB server. An SQL server should be able to use an index to perform that kind of sort substantially faster than it could be done by a generic sorting algorithm, such as what Rev would need to use with its 'sort' command. The only major exception is when the client is distributed among multiple computers (different people accessing the server simultaneously with the client on separate machines per user) and the database server is on hardware which is being very heavily used. In this case, the client may be able to sort the incoming data faster than the DB can, only due to the server being slowed down by a heavy processing load of multiple other users. However, there would need to be a rather extreme number of users for a correctly indexed database to slow down to this point, at least with a query like that one, since the index should allow the server to just read off the needed data in a sorted order to begin with, rather than needing to take any extra steps to sort it at all. Complex views might complicate the matter somewhat, but last time I checked, MySQL did not support views (a somewhat strange omission for such a popular db server...) On Apr 4, 2005, at 4:40 PM, Trevor DeVore wrote: Do you mean that the transcript sorting code executes faster than the mySQL doing the sorting (with something like 'SELECT ID, FirstName, LastName FROM people ORDER BY LastName') or that it is just easier for you to handle everything in transcript rather than figuring out the SQL syntax to perform some of the sorts, joins, etc.? - --- Frank D. Engel, Jr. <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> $ ln -s /usr/share/kjvbible /usr/manual $ true | cat /usr/manual | grep "John 3:16" John 3:16 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life. $ -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.2.4 (Darwin) iD8DBQFCUaiE7aqtWrR9cZoRAmPVAKCRLmyw301tHZCVzVhcMaM+uICS3gCfV2x7 uYM3tgGMtRwDDHAQvizbhmc= =sJMT -END PGP SIGNATURE- ___ $0 Web Hosting with up to 200MB web space, 1000 MB Transfer 10 Personalized POP and Web E-mail Accounts, and much more. Signup at www.doteasy.com ___ use-revolution mailing list use-revolution@lists.runrev.com http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
Re: How to get the difference between two lists?
On Apr 4, 2005, at 1:11 PM, jbv wrote: well, I don't know... I've been heavily using Rev cgi and mySQL during the past few months, and I found out that extracting raw data from the db and processing them (sorting, comparing...) in Transcript is most of the time much faster than writing sophisticated SQL code... Do you mean that the transcript sorting code executes faster than the mySQL doing the sorting (with something like 'SELECT ID, FirstName, LastName FROM people ORDER BY LastName') or that it is just easier for you to handle everything in transcript rather than figuring out the SQL syntax to perform some of the sorts, joins, etc.? -- Trevor DeVore Blue Mango Multimedia [EMAIL PROTECTED] ___ use-revolution mailing list use-revolution@lists.runrev.com http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
Re: How to get the difference between two lists?
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 That depends on how you write the queries, how busy the server is, how much information needs to be shuttled between the client and the server, and various other factors. Also, an ad hoc query against an SQL server needs to be parse, planned, and executed by the server each time it is sent. A complex query may be better handled as a stored procedure, so that it can be pre-planned; this will cut down on execution time later on. If you are dealing with a large amount of information, processing it on the server may cut down on time spent transmitting info across a slower network which will later be eliminated anyway. Additionally, depending on the operations being performed, the server may be able to take advantage of indexes, etc. that the client will not have access to. Now as far as using the SQL server to maintain lists, if you can store each entry as a separate row in a table, for example (based on PostgreSQL and untested; may or may not be the most efficient queries in some cases): CREATE TABLE myLists ( listID INTEGER NOT NULL, listValue TEXT ); CREATE INDEX ndxMyLists ON myLists (listID, listValue); Now to retrieve a list in sorted order by value: SELECT listValue FROM myLists WHERE (listID = 1) ORDER BY listValue; To perform an intersection operation between two lists: SELECT DISTINCT listValue FROM myLists WHERE (listID = 1) AND (listValue IN (SELECT listValue FROM myLists WHERE (listID = 2 To perform a union operation between two lists: (SELECT listValue FROM myLists WHERE (listID = 1)) UNION (SELECT listValue FROM myLists WHERE (listID = 2)) **or** SELECT DISTINCT listValue FROM myLists WHERE ((listID = 1) OR (listID = 2)) To perform a set difference: SELECT listValue FROM myLists WHERE (listID = 1) AND NOT (listValue IN (SELECT listValue FROM myLists WHERE (listID = 2))) Note that this set difference is only different from my suggestion for intersection by a single NOT operator... I missed the original post, what else did you need to be able to do? BTW, one of the issues with using mySQL like this is its lack of support for stored procedures, or have they added this capability yet? Even pure SQL stored procedures would be fine for most of this stuff... On Apr 4, 2005, at 4:11 PM, jbv wrote: I like this one, Ken. In general, I'd reconsider the overall design. Specifically, I'd think about queries that do what you want. If the set has to be a single value, then I'd consider a blob that represents a bit set as the db representation. well, I don't know... I've been heavily using Rev cgi and mySQL during the past few months, and I found out that extracting raw data from the db and processing them (sorting, comparing...) in Transcript is most of the time much faster than writing sophisticated SQL code... JB ___ use-revolution mailing list use-revolution@lists.runrev.com http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution - --- Frank D. Engel, Jr. <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> $ ln -s /usr/share/kjvbible /usr/manual $ true | cat /usr/manual | grep "John 3:16" John 3:16 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life. $ -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.2.4 (Darwin) iD8DBQFCUaYR7aqtWrR9cZoRAviWAJ9SzSDGdg3JJNPdmCoOka8RVk7otwCfdB1I 5YwzbHHISddnuNB20nd3fR4= =FSMG -END PGP SIGNATURE- ___ $0 Web Hosting with up to 200MB web space, 1000 MB Transfer 10 Personalized POP and Web E-mail Accounts, and much more. Signup at www.doteasy.com ___ use-revolution mailing list use-revolution@lists.runrev.com http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
Re: How to get the difference between two lists?
On Apr 4, 2005, at 2:11 PM, jbv wrote: I've been heavily using Rev cgi and mySQL during the past few months, and I found out that extracting raw data from the db and processing them (sorting, comparing...) in Transcript is most of the time much faster than writing sophisticated SQL code... I bow to your experience. In that case, I'd look for a way to keep sets in the db in a form that is handy for their use. If use is primarily set operations, I'd look toward optimizing that, and choosing the representation for that optimization. I think that leaves out an array as representation. Dar -- ** DSC (Dar Scott Consulting & Dar's Lab) http://www.swcp.com/dsc/ Programming Services and Software ** ___ use-revolution mailing list use-revolution@lists.runrev.com http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
Re: How to get the difference between two lists?
> > I like this one, Ken. In general, I'd reconsider the overall design. > Specifically, I'd think about queries that do what you want. If the > set has to be a single value, then I'd consider a blob that represents > a bit set as the db representation. > well, I don't know... I've been heavily using Rev cgi and mySQL during the past few months, and I found out that extracting raw data from the db and processing them (sorting, comparing...) in Transcript is most of the time much faster than writing sophisticated SQL code... JB ___ use-revolution mailing list use-revolution@lists.runrev.com http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
Re: How to get the difference between two lists?
On Apr 4, 2005, at 12:07 AM, Brian Yennie wrote: What kind of database? You might be able to keep these operations in-database, depending on what the tables/ needs are. I like this one, Ken. In general, I'd reconsider the overall design. Specifically, I'd think about queries that do what you want. If the set has to be a single value, then I'd consider a blob that represents a bit set as the db representation. Dar ___ use-revolution mailing list use-revolution@lists.runrev.com http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
Re: How to get the difference between two lists?
Frank D. Engel, Jr. wrote: -BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 Interesting. Note that it would not be difficult to modify that code to support lists which do not meet those criteria (as long as both lists are still sorted, or else you'd need to sort them first), but I already lost the old stats: is this 15ms faster. or slower? It's not "faster" or "slower". The earlier comparison compared two functions - "Shortlist" and "difference". "difference" is the code that uses arrays and delete variable - i.e. the second of the suggested methods from Dar, and also suggested by Monte. Combining the previous stats and the new one, (i.e. extrapolating and guessing) you get something like old Shortlist : 300 new code (and variants) : 200 + / - a bit difference : 15 i.e. all the methods that loop through making use of the fact that the data in each list is sorted are significantly faster than using "among the lines of", but much slower than using the arrays. Given the problems with that one, I'm curious: how does something like this compare (this version only requires that both lists are in ascending numeric order): looks like just another variant - I'm guessing it will be 200ms give or take a bit, and don't feel the need to know exactly how much plus or minus; the array method is clearly the one to use. -- Alex Tweedly http://www.tweedly.net -- No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. Version: 7.0.308 / Virus Database: 266.8.6 - Release Date: 30/03/2005 ___ use-revolution mailing list use-revolution@lists.runrev.com http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
Re: How to get the difference between two lists?
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 Interesting. Note that it would not be difficult to modify that code to support lists which do not meet those criteria (as long as both lists are still sorted, or else you'd need to sort them first), but I already lost the old stats: is this 15ms faster. or slower? Given the problems with that one, I'm curious: how does something like this compare (this version only requires that both lists are in ascending numeric order): put empty into the targetList put 1 into x put the number of lines in the masterList into maxX put line 1 of the masterList into y repeat for each line z in the exceptList repeat while (y < z) and (x <= maxX) put (y & cr) after the targetList add 1 to x put line x of the masterList into y end repeat repeat while (y = z) and (x <= maxX) add 1 to x put line x of the masterList into y end repeat end repeat repeat with x = x to maxX put (line x of the masterList) & cr after the targetList end repeat delete the last char of the targetList On Apr 4, 2005, at 1:27 PM, Alex Tweedly wrote: Frank D. Engel, Jr. wrote: -BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 Okay, so anyone want to report on this one (untested, but should be rather efficient): This algorithm assumes that every item in the exclusion list is included in the master list, that there are no duplicate items in either list, and that both lists are in ascending numeric order: That assumption isn't met by the earlier test data - so I can't do an exact comparison with the earlier cases. But with 10,000 in the full list, and 1,667 in the smaller list (instead of 5000), the times are new code: 183 ms difference: 15 ms Surprising - I expected it to be faster, but I tried a few variants and they all had much the same timings. -- Alex Tweedly http://www.tweedly.net -- No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. Version: 7.0.308 / Virus Database: 266.8.6 - Release Date: 30/03/2005 ___ use-revolution mailing list use-revolution@lists.runrev.com http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution - --- Frank D. Engel, Jr. <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> $ ln -s /usr/share/kjvbible /usr/manual $ true | cat /usr/manual | grep "John 3:16" John 3:16 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life. $ -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.2.4 (Darwin) iD8DBQFCUX327aqtWrR9cZoRApgRAJ96CZkw6IseDfnRyeV5nsVa3d8SGQCfYQ23 CSOK7Y1hy9S50fKTpxl7klk= =Nil+ -END PGP SIGNATURE- ___ $0 Web Hosting with up to 200MB web space, 1000 MB Transfer 10 Personalized POP and Web E-mail Accounts, and much more. Signup at www.doteasy.com ___ use-revolution mailing list use-revolution@lists.runrev.com http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
Re: How to get the difference between two lists?
Frank D. Engel, Jr. wrote: -BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 Okay, so anyone want to report on this one (untested, but should be rather efficient): This algorithm assumes that every item in the exclusion list is included in the master list, that there are no duplicate items in either list, and that both lists are in ascending numeric order: That assumption isn't met by the earlier test data - so I can't do an exact comparison with the earlier cases. But with 10,000 in the full list, and 1,667 in the smaller list (instead of 5000), the times are new code: 183 ms difference: 15 ms Surprising - I expected it to be faster, but I tried a few variants and they all had much the same timings. -- Alex Tweedly http://www.tweedly.net -- No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. Version: 7.0.308 / Virus Database: 266.8.6 - Release Date: 30/03/2005 ___ use-revolution mailing list use-revolution@lists.runrev.com http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
Re: How to get the difference between two lists?
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 Okay, so anyone want to report on this one (untested, but should be rather efficient): This algorithm assumes that every item in the exclusion list is included in the master list, that there are no duplicate items in either list, and that both lists are in ascending numeric order: put empty into targetList put (excludeList & cr & 10) into eCopy -- use some absurdly huge -- number, guaranteed to not be in either list, and to be larger than the largest possible -- number in either list put 1 into z repeat for each line x in masterList if x < (line z of eCopy) then put (x & cr) after targetList else add 1 to z end repeat delete the last char of targetList On Apr 4, 2005, at 10:27 AM, Jim Hurley wrote: Message: 6 Date: Sun, 03 Apr 2005 22:04:54 -0500 From: Ken Ray <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Subject: How to get the difference between two lists? To: Use Revolution List Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" I've got two lists - one with is the "comprehensive" list that is return-delimited, like: (snip) Ken, I wrote a short stack (non-pancake) a short time ago to deal with the multitude of e-mail list among the various volunteer groups in my community, extract duplicates, find common lines, etc. It will generate the both the intersection and the union of any two lists. Don't know if this is any help but you can see with go url "http://home.infostations.net/jhurley/CompareLists.rev"; Jim ___ use-revolution mailing list use-revolution@lists.runrev.com http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution - --- Frank D. Engel, Jr. <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> $ ln -s /usr/share/kjvbible /usr/manual $ true | cat /usr/manual | grep "John 3:16" John 3:16 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life. $ -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.2.4 (Darwin) iD8DBQFCUVvQ7aqtWrR9cZoRAh7pAJ0ajDgAWnoR/007yYs3bio03xk8lQCfQhzo FxOsMhZvTLt2NQF9ixuKDfk= =1IIo -END PGP SIGNATURE- ___ $0 Web Hosting with up to 200MB web space, 1000 MB Transfer 10 Personalized POP and Web E-mail Accounts, and much more. Signup at www.doteasy.com ___ use-revolution mailing list use-revolution@lists.runrev.com http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
Re: How to get the difference between two lists?
On 4/4/05 9:27 AM, "Jim Hurley" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > I wrote a short stack (non-pancake) a short time ago to deal with the > multitude of e-mail list among the various volunteer groups in my > community, extract duplicates, find common lines, etc. > > It will generate the both the intersection and the union of any two > lists. Don't know if this is any help but you can see with > >go url "http://home.infostations.net/jhurley/CompareLists.rev"; Very cool, Jim, thanks! Ken Ray Sons of Thunder Software Web site: http://www.sonsothunder.com/ Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ___ use-revolution mailing list use-revolution@lists.runrev.com http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
Re: How to get the difference between two lists?
Message: 6 Date: Sun, 03 Apr 2005 22:04:54 -0500 From: Ken Ray <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Subject: How to get the difference between two lists? To: Use Revolution List Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" I've got two lists - one with is the "comprehensive" list that is return-delimited, like: (snip) Ken, I wrote a short stack (non-pancake) a short time ago to deal with the multitude of e-mail list among the various volunteer groups in my community, extract duplicates, find common lines, etc. It will generate the both the intersection and the union of any two lists. Don't know if this is any help but you can see with go url "http://home.infostations.net/jhurley/CompareLists.rev"; Jim ___ use-revolution mailing list use-revolution@lists.runrev.com http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
Re: How to get the difference between two lists?
Richard had shared that some time ago and it worked great, the thing is for some reason (SuperCard, I guess) I have a hard time putting my mind around repeat for each line tLine and then if tLine - I have used it but it doesn't always come to mind in trying to figure something out. Love it though. tom On Apr 3, 2005, at 11:49 PM, Richard Gaskin wrote: function ShortList pList, pExcludelist repeat for each line tLine in pList if tLine is not among the lines of pExcludeList then put tLine & cr after tNulist end if end repeat delete last char of tNuList return tNuList end ShortList Thomas J. McGrath III SCS 1000 Killarney Dr. Pittsburgh, PA 15234 412-885-8541 ___ use-revolution mailing list use-revolution@lists.runrev.com http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
Re: How to get the difference between two lists?
On 4/4/05 1:39 AM, "Monte Goulding" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: >> Ken (and all the other ingenious people), you have something against the >> "intersect" command? >> >> Convert both lists to arrays and intersect them leaving only the >> non-common elements. > > My understanding is the intersect command creates an array with only common > keys. If there was an inverse of the command it would be perfect as you say. I added this as an enhancement request to Bugzilla (Bug #2763 if anyone wants to vote on it). Ken Ray Sons of Thunder Software Web site: http://www.sonsothunder.com/ Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ___ use-revolution mailing list use-revolution@lists.runrev.com http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
Re: How to get the difference between two lists?
Dick Kriesel wrote: On 4/3/05 7:49 PM, "Richard Gaskin" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: With 10,000 lines in my main list and 5,000 lines in my exclude list, it takes only 25 milliseconds to use this on my single-processor PBG4 1MHz: function ShortList pList, pExcludelist repeat for each line tLine in pList if tLine is not among the lines of pExcludeList then put tLine & cr after tNulist end if end repeat delete last char of tNuList return tNuList end ShortList Wow, that's fast. So I decided to compare it to an implementation of Dar's second suggestion, which I've been using for a long time. The test I tried yields times very different from Richard's. Even though my machine is a dual 2 GHz G5, function "Shortlist" took almost a hundred times longer than Richard reported. I wonder why the times are so different. But the other function ran almost 70 times faster than function "Shortlist." Indeed it did. My earlier test was bunk -- can I use jet lag as my excuse today? :) Here's the latest test below -- the array version is indeed orders of magnitude faster. But one note from Ken raises a question -- Ken wrote: Unfortunately this is something that will be executed in a loop several thousand times, so even at 25ms * 2000 that ends up being 50 seconds, which is way too long. You've probably already consider this, but is there a way you can reduce the number of iterations? on mouseUp repeat with i = 1 to 1 put i&cr after tList end repeat put xList(tList) into tExcludeList -- put the millisecs into t get ShortList1(tList, tExcludeList) put the millisecs - t into t1 -- put the millisecs into t get ShortList2(tList,tExcludeList) put the millisecs - t into t2 -- put t1 && t2 end mouseUp function ShortList1 pList, pExcludelist repeat for each line tLine in pList if tLine is not among the lines of pExcludeList then put tLine & cr after tNulist end if end repeat delete last char of tNuList return tNuList end ShortList1 function ShortList2 pList, pExcludelist split pList with return and tab repeat for each line tLine in pExcludelist delete variable pList[tLine] end repeat return the keys of pList end ShortList2 function xList pList repeat for each line tLine in pList if tLine mod 2 = 0 then put tLine & cr after tNulist end if end repeat delete last char of tNuList return tNuList end xList -- Richard Gaskin Fourth World Media Corporation ___ [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.FourthWorld.com ___ use-revolution mailing list use-revolution@lists.runrev.com http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
Re: How to get the difference between two lists?
On 4/4/05 1:33 AM, "David Vaughan" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > Ken (and all the other ingenious people), you have something against > the "intersect" command? Yes - what I need is the *opposite* of intersect... you see using intersect only returns the *common* elements, not the *non-common* elements. Ken Ray Sons of Thunder Software Web site: http://www.sonsothunder.com/ Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ___ use-revolution mailing list use-revolution@lists.runrev.com http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
Re: How to get the difference between two lists?
On 4/4/05 2:31 AM, "Dick Kriesel" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: >> With 10,000 lines in my main list and 5,000 lines in my exclude list, it >> takes only 25 milliseconds to use this on my single-processor PBG4 1MHz: > > Wow, that's fast. So I decided to compare it to an implementation of Dar's > second suggestion, which I've been using for a long time. The test I tried > yields times very different from Richard's. Even though my machine is a > dual 2 GHz G5, function "Shortlist" took almost a hundred times longer than > Richard reported. I wonder why the times are so different. Mine ran that slowly as well... perhaps Richard's doing something we aren't? > But the other function ran almost 70 times faster than function "Shortlist." That's awesome, Dick... I didn't get a chance to benchmark it so I'll use that instead. Ken Ray Sons of Thunder Software Web site: http://www.sonsothunder.com/ Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ___ use-revolution mailing list use-revolution@lists.runrev.com http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
Re: How to get the difference between two lists?
Ken (and all the other ingenious people), you have something against the "intersect" command? Convert both lists to arrays and intersect them leaving only the non-common elements. My understanding is the intersect command creates an array with only common keys. If there was an inverse of the command it would be perfect as you say. Cheers Monte ___ use-revolution mailing list use-revolution@lists.runrev.com http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
Re: How to get the difference between two lists?
On 04/04/2005, at 16:34, Ken Ray <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: I've got two lists - one with is the "comprehensive" list that is return-delimited, like: 3 5 6 And another list which is the list I would like to *remove* from the comprehensive list: 5 6 Which should give me: 3 Any ideas? Ken (and all the other ingenious people), you have something against the "intersect" command? Convert both lists to arrays and intersect them leaving only the non-common elements. cheers David Ken Ray Sons of Thunder Software ___ use-revolution mailing list use-revolution@lists.runrev.com http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
Re: How to get the difference between two lists?
On 4/3/05 7:49 PM, "Richard Gaskin" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > With 10,000 lines in my main list and 5,000 lines in my exclude list, it > takes only 25 milliseconds to use this on my single-processor PBG4 1MHz: > > > function ShortList pList, pExcludelist >repeat for each line tLine in pList > if tLine is not among the lines of pExcludeList then >put tLine & cr after tNulist > end if >end repeat >delete last char of tNuList >return tNuList > end ShortList Wow, that's fast. So I decided to compare it to an implementation of Dar's second suggestion, which I've been using for a long time. The test I tried yields times very different from Richard's. Even though my machine is a dual 2 GHz G5, function "Shortlist" took almost a hundred times longer than Richard reported. I wonder why the times are so different. But the other function ran almost 70 times faster than function "Shortlist." Here are the other function, the "test" handler, and the test results: function difference pList1,pList2 split pList1 with return and tab repeat for each line tLine in pList2 delete variable pList1[tLine] end repeat return the keys of pList1 end difference - on test repeat with i = 3 to 3 step 3 -- 1 multiples of 3 put i & cr after tBig end repeat delete last char of tBig put "number of lines in tBig:" && number of lines in tBig & cr repeat with i = 2 to 1 step 2 -- 5000 multiples of 2 put i & cr after tLittle end repeat delete last char of tLittle put "number of lines in tLittle:" && number of lines in tLittle \ & cr after msg put the milliseconds into tBefore put shortList(tBig,tLittle) into tDiff1 put the milliseconds into tAfter put "elapsed milliseconds for Shortlist:" && (tAfter - tBefore) \ & cr after msg put the milliseconds into tBefore put difference(tBig,tLittle) into tDiff2 put the milliseconds into tAfter put "elapsed milliseconds for difference:" && (tAfter - tBefore) \ & cr after msg sort tDiff2 numeric put "matching results:" && (tDiff1 = tDiff2) & cr after msg end test - number of lines in tBig: 1 number of lines in tLittle: 5000 elapsed milliseconds for Shortlist: 2423 elapsed milliseconds for difference: 35 matching results: true ___ use-revolution mailing list use-revolution@lists.runrev.com http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
Re: How to get the difference between two lists?
Ken, What kind of database? You might be able to keep these operations in-database, depending on what the tables/ needs are. For example: SELECT recID FROM someTable WHERE (recID IN (3,5,6,7,11,14,18,21)) AND NOT (recID IN (5,6,11,18)) It's a little kludgey using the above, but keeping the work in-database somewhere might give you good results. The database delete of course could be something like: DELETE FROM someTable WHERE recID IN (5,6,11,18); Dunno if that springs an idea or works- but most database engines will work through long lists of recIDs very fast. If you can get the results as a side effect of queries you need to make anyway, all the better. One other idea: repeat for each line l in (tOriginalList&cr&tRemoveList) if (tArray[l] is not empty) then delete tArray[l] else put l into tArray[l] end repeat combine tArray This is off the top of my head, but the idea is: combine the lists and pass through once. If you already saw an item, it must need to be deleted (so empty the array item). Otherwise, just pop it into the array. Combine when done. IOW- combine them and delete anything with a duplicate. HTH! Brian On 4/3/05 11:24 PM, "[EMAIL PROTECTED]" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: Ken, Would it help to 1. mark cards that need to be removed 2. sort by marked cards 3. delete the marked cards Still a repeat loop, but each card would not have to be evaluated during the loop. Well, the problem is that it is not cards I'm dealing with but lists of numbers (record IDs) that are returned from database calls. Ken Ray Sons of Thunder Software Web site: http://www.sonsothunder.com/ Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ___ use-revolution mailing list use-revolution@lists.runrev.com http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution ___ use-revolution mailing list use-revolution@lists.runrev.com http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
Re: How to get the difference between two lists?
Le 4 avr. 05, à 07:23, Ken Ray a écrit : On 4/3/05 10:49 PM, "Richard Gaskin" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: With 10,000 lines in my main list and 5,000 lines in my exclude list, it takes only 25 milliseconds to use this on my single-processor PBG4 1MHz: Unfortunately this is something that will be executed in a loop several thousand times, so even at 25ms * 2000 that ends up being 50 seconds, which is way too long. Hi Ken, Try this : on mouseUp answer excludeLines(fld "Liste2", fld "Liste1") end mouseUp function excludeLines pList1, pList2 repeat for each line tLine in pList1 put 1 into tArray[tLine] end repeat repeat for each line tLine in pList2 if tArray[tLine] < 1 then put 2 into tArray[tLine] put tLine & cr after tRetVal end if end repeat delete char -1 of tRetVal return tRetVal end excludeLines here it works. Greetings. Yves COPPE [EMAIL PROTECTED] use-revolution mailing list use-revolution@lists.runrev.com http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
Re: How to get the difference between two lists?
On 4/3/05 10:49 PM, "Richard Gaskin" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > With 10,000 lines in my main list and 5,000 lines in my exclude list, it > takes only 25 milliseconds to use this on my single-processor PBG4 1MHz: Unfortunately this is something that will be executed in a loop several thousand times, so even at 25ms * 2000 that ends up being 50 seconds, which is way too long. I'll see what I can do with arrays - I'll let you all know how it turns out. Ken Ray Sons of Thunder Software Web site: http://www.sonsothunder.com/ Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ___ use-revolution mailing list use-revolution@lists.runrev.com http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
Re: How to get the difference between two lists?
On 4/3/05 11:24 PM, "[EMAIL PROTECTED]" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > Ken, > Would it help to > 1. mark cards that need to be removed > 2. sort by marked cards > 3. delete the marked cards > Still a repeat loop, but each card would not have to be evaluated > during the loop. Well, the problem is that it is not cards I'm dealing with but lists of numbers (record IDs) that are returned from database calls. Ken Ray Sons of Thunder Software Web site: http://www.sonsothunder.com/ Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ___ use-revolution mailing list use-revolution@lists.runrev.com http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
Re: How to get the difference between two lists?
Ken, Would it help to 1. mark cards that need to be removed 2. sort by marked cards 3. delete the marked cards Still a repeat loop, but each card would not have to be evaluated during the loop. Paul Looney ___ use-revolution mailing list use-revolution@lists.runrev.com http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
Re: How to get the difference between two lists?
Ken Ray wrote: I've got two lists - one with is the "comprehensive" list that is return-delimited, like: 3 5 6 7 11 14 18 21 And another list which is the list I would like to *remove* from the comprehensive list: 5 6 11 18 Which should give me: 3 7 14 21 I can of course do a repeat loop through the small list and remove those items from the comprehensive list, but I'm wondering if there's a faster way to do this. The numbers will always be sorted in ascending numeric order, but there may be thousands of them, so I'm not looking forward to a repeat loop. With 10,000 lines in my main list and 5,000 lines in my exclude list, it takes only 25 milliseconds to use this on my single-processor PBG4 1MHz: function ShortList pList, pExcludelist repeat for each line tLine in pList if tLine is not among the lines of pExcludeList then put tLine & cr after tNulist end if end repeat delete last char of tNuList return tNuList end ShortList -- Richard Gaskin Fourth World Media Corporation __ Rev tools and more: http://www.fourthworld.com/rev ___ use-revolution mailing list use-revolution@lists.runrev.com http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
Re: How to get the difference between two lists?
On Apr 3, 2005, at 9:04 PM, Ken Ray wrote: I can of course do a repeat loop through the small list and remove those items from the comprehensive list, but I'm wondering if there's a faster way to do this. Some wild ideas: 1. Convert the smaller list into a regex and use replaceText(). 2. Convert the long list to an array and loop through the smaller one and delete. Oh, wait, that's a loop. 3. Represent sets as arrays spanning the universe of numbers for your lists. Represent your sets with these. If a number is in the set, the value is 1. If not, the value is 0. Define intersection as *. Define complement as take away one and times -1. The set difference is the intersection with the complement of the set to be taken away. Remember * and + can apply to arrays. 4. Represent sets as a string of bits, 8 bits per char in a string. Use binaryDecode and binaryEncode and bitAnd and bitNot and loop 32 bits at a time. Whoops, that's looping, but each pass takes care of 32 values in your universe. 5. Take the middle line of the small list and find it or where it would be in the big list. Concatenate the result of recursion of applying your function to the fronts and to the backs, where those do not include the middle line. 6. I know it involves loops, but I have looped through both loops together and that was satisfactory for what I was doing, but I was not that happy with it. Dar -- ** DSC (Dar Scott Consulting & Dar's Lab) http://www.swcp.com/dsc/ Programming Services and Software ** ___ use-revolution mailing list use-revolution@lists.runrev.com http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
Re: How to get the difference between two lists?
I've got two lists - one with is the "comprehensive" list that is return-delimited, like: 3 5 6 7 11 14 18 21 And another list which is the list I would like to *remove* from the comprehensive list: 5 6 11 18 Which should give me: 3 7 14 21 I can of course do a repeat loop through the small list and remove those items from the comprehensive list, but I'm wondering if there's a faster way to do this. The numbers will always be sorted in ascending numeric order, but there may be thousands of them, so I'm not looking forward to a repeat loop. How about: split the long list into an array loop over the short list delete array elements for each line of the short list combine the long list resort the long list Should be faster than deleting a line in the middle of a long list but I could be wrong. It's a pity we don't have an inverse of the intersect command. Cheers Monte ___ use-revolution mailing list use-revolution@lists.runrev.com http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
Re: How to get the difference between two lists?
On 4/3/05 10:21 PM, "[EMAIL PROTECTED]" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > Ken, > Is it possible to skip the "remove" items when the comprehensive list > is built? Nope... good thought, though... Ken Ray Sons of Thunder Software Web site: http://www.sonsothunder.com/ Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ___ use-revolution mailing list use-revolution@lists.runrev.com http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
Re: How to get the difference between two lists?
Ken, Is it possible to skip the "remove" items when the comprehensive list is built? Paul Looney -Original Message- From: Ken Ray <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: Use Revolution List Sent: Sun, 03 Apr 2005 22:04:54 -0500 Subject: How to get the difference between two lists? I've got two lists - one with is the "comprehensive" list that is return-delimited, like: 3 5 6 7 11 14 18 21 And another list which is the list I would like to *remove* from the comprehensive list: 5 6 11 18 Which should give me: 3 7 14 21 I can of course do a repeat loop through the small list and remove those items from the comprehensive list, but I'm wondering if there's a faster way to do this. The numbers will always be sorted in ascending numeric order, but there may be thousands of them, so I'm not looking forward to a repeat loop. Any ideas? Ken Ray Sons of Thunder Software Web site: http://www.sonsothunder.com/ Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ___ use-revolution mailing list use-revolution@lists.runrev.com http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution ___ use-revolution mailing list use-revolution@lists.runrev.com http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
How to get the difference between two lists?
I've got two lists - one with is the "comprehensive" list that is return-delimited, like: 3 5 6 7 11 14 18 21 And another list which is the list I would like to *remove* from the comprehensive list: 5 6 11 18 Which should give me: 3 7 14 21 I can of course do a repeat loop through the small list and remove those items from the comprehensive list, but I'm wondering if there's a faster way to do this. The numbers will always be sorted in ascending numeric order, but there may be thousands of them, so I'm not looking forward to a repeat loop. Any ideas? Ken Ray Sons of Thunder Software Web site: http://www.sonsothunder.com/ Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ___ use-revolution mailing list use-revolution@lists.runrev.com http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
