Re: News of Shafer eBook Publication Plans
I'm excited about Volumes 2 and 3, but I ordered Volume 1 several weeks ago (from Runtime) and it's disappointing to know that it's obsolete before I even receive it. Sigh.. Dr. Scott Steinman ___ use-revolution mailing list use-revolution@lists.runrev.com http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
Re: News of Shafer eBook Publication Plans
Scott There is no respect in which Volume 1 is obsolete. We are considering chunking it up into more manageable pieces and issuing those as separate eBooks and trying to find a way to make the entire volume available electronically (pricing and related issues) but the volume remains solid and accurate. Sorry if somehow I conveyed a different perspective. Dan On Feb 25, 2005, at 7:32 AM, Dr.Scott Steinman wrote: I'm excited about Volumes 2 and 3, but I ordered Volume 1 several weeks ago (from Runtime) and it's disappointing to know that it's obsolete before I even receive it. Sigh.. Dr. Scott Steinman ___ use-revolution mailing list use-revolution@lists.runrev.com http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution ___ use-revolution mailing list use-revolution@lists.runrev.com http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
Re: News of Shafer eBook Publication Plans
Judy. LOL. Yeah, as far as that remark goes, you're right. I mean, I'd really like to understand: (a) how an index on a full-text-searchable document adds enough real value to make it worth the time and cost of compiling it; and (b) how such an index should differ, if at all, from an index for a printed book. Maybe there's some happy middle ground here. Dan On Feb 26, 2005, at 11:06 PM, Judy Perry wrote: Dan, Basically, what you're saying is that anything done crappily is crap and anything done well is good. That's true. More l8r when I'm in a better mood ;-) :-/ Judy On Sat, 26 Feb 2005, Dan Shafer wrote: Judy. Strong opinion. I disagree. I know you come from an education perspective and perhaps that's shaping some of what you are feeling but my experience says: 1. Creating indexes is subjective at best. A great index can help make the contents of a printed work more accessible; a poorly done one (which 90% are) gets in the way because it sets up a false expectation about what is and isn't covered in the book. ___ use-revolution mailing list use-revolution@lists.runrev.com http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution ___ use-revolution mailing list use-revolution@lists.runrev.com http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
Re: News of Shafer eBook Publication Plans
On Fri, 25 Feb 2005 21:21:25 -0800 (PST), Judy Perry [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Okay, Graham, I am sorry; I did not intend to make you the personal target of my rant. It's just that I have been requesting this feature for quite some time now. Judy On Fri, 25 Feb 2005, Judy Perry wrote: Not an excuse. OK, no offence (offense?) taken. I also passionately believe that all non-fiction books should have an index, and of course technical manuals even more so. Imagining the pressures on Dan, I thought that it might be possible to offer help in this regard. G Graham Samuel / The Living Fossil Co. / UK and France ___ use-revolution mailing list use-revolution@lists.runrev.com http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
Re: News of Shafer eBook Publication Plans
Judy- Friday, February 25, 2005, 8:01:20 PM, you wrote: JP Printed books simply MUST have an index. I really believe that PDFs JP should too. Well, the printed rev 2.0 docs have an index, but it's just a list of functions with the page number each is defined at. Since the whole book is alphabetical anyway, this makes it redundant *and* useless. Worse, the index is in the front of the book, giving the appearance of a table of contents. I think it's not enough just to have an index, it has to serve a purpose as well. I do use the printed docs, but the ability to search the online docs is a great tool. And pdf indices seem to serve as a nice middle ground, allowing for thematic groupings as in a table of contents and hyperlinking to content. -- -Mark Wieder [EMAIL PROTECTED] ___ use-revolution mailing list use-revolution@lists.runrev.com http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
Re: News of Shafer eBook Publication Plans
Mark Wieder wrote: I think it's not enough just to have an index, it has to serve a purpose as well. I do use the printed docs, but the ability to search the online docs is a great tool. And pdf indices seem to serve as a nice middle ground, allowing for thematic groupings as in a table of contents and hyperlinking to content. Agree, but darn it's a lot of work. I made the task-oriented index for SuperCard 2.5's documentation, it came to about 15-20% of the total cost. And people still complained that it wasn't complete enough. :) -- Richard Gaskin Fourth World Media Corporation __ Rev tools and more: http://www.fourthworld.com/rev ___ use-revolution mailing list use-revolution@lists.runrev.com http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
Re: News of Shafer eBook Publication Plans
Judy. Strong opinion. I disagree. I know you come from an education perspective and perhaps that's shaping some of what you are feeling but my experience says: 1. Creating indexes is subjective at best. A great index can help make the contents of a printed work more accessible; a poorly done one (which 90% are) gets in the way because it sets up a false expectation about what is and isn't covered in the book. 2. The ability to full-text-search an eBook almost always more than makes up for the lack of an index. An index necessarily confines itself to the concepts and words the person preparing the index thought were important. The ability to search the text for any word or phrase makes it much more likely that I'll be able to find what *I* am looking for rather than only what the indexer thought to index. 3. Either by design or because of flaws in the way PDFs are generated or displayed, indexes of eBooks generally end up pointing a page number that doesn't match the actual number on the page. Front matter doesn't get separated out. Page x is page 10 and if that's the last Roman numeral page, then page 1 is actually page 11. Again, please note before you respond to this comment that I'm saying that's my experience with the PDFs I've worked with. It may well be that someone who really knows how to manage the PDF-creation process knows how to get around this, but my experience is that most authors don't. When all is said and done, I'd rather have more material sooner that I can free-text search than less material later that has an index that is almost destined to be only somewhat useful anyway. In any case, I'd suggest that a blanket, universal mandate that PDFs must have an index seems to me to be too broad at a minimum. Dan On Feb 25, 2005, at 8:01 PM, Judy Perry wrote: Not an excuse. Printed books simply MUST have an index. I really believe that PDFs should too. Judy On Fri, 25 Feb 2005, graham samuel wrote: Well, indices can be written - we might get volunteers to do it. In fact I might be such a volunteer for one or more of the books. Forces you to read the text, I find. ___ use-revolution mailing list use-revolution@lists.runrev.com http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution ___ use-revolution mailing list use-revolution@lists.runrev.com http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
Re: News of Shafer eBook Publication Plans
Richard- Saturday, February 26, 2005, 11:44:08 AM, you wrote: RG Agree, but darn it's a lot of work. I made the task-oriented index for RG SuperCard 2.5's documentation, it came to about 15-20% of the total RG cost. And people still complained that it wasn't complete enough. :) It never is. g Back in the early HC days I remember scripting something that would automatically find keyword links from within text fields, but it's lost to history now. -- -Mark Wieder [EMAIL PROTECTED] ___ use-revolution mailing list use-revolution@lists.runrev.com http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
Re: News of Shafer eBook Publication Plans
Dan, Basically, what you're saying is that anything done crappily is crap and anything done well is good. That's true. More l8r when I'm in a better mood ;-) :-/ Judy On Sat, 26 Feb 2005, Dan Shafer wrote: Judy. Strong opinion. I disagree. I know you come from an education perspective and perhaps that's shaping some of what you are feeling but my experience says: 1. Creating indexes is subjective at best. A great index can help make the contents of a printed work more accessible; a poorly done one (which 90% are) gets in the way because it sets up a false expectation about what is and isn't covered in the book. ___ use-revolution mailing list use-revolution@lists.runrev.com http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
Re: News of Shafer eBook Publication Plans
Glad to hear about this but I only just ordered Volume 1 yesterday! Pity about the lack of print publishing as I like to read manuals AWAY from the computer. I would hope the Runtime people will consider forming some of the more basic booklets into a users guide as the current documentation is OK for reference but not much good for example and inspiration. Regards Eddie Eddie, with eBooks, you can read them on the computer but you can also print them, and even bind, individually or together, if willing to spend extra money. Up to you. Utter flexibility. The problem with printed manuals is that they are always behind as they need a few months lead time for production and require more manpower. And with the complexity of the Transcript and versatility of Rev, they will always tend to be quite big. Robert ___ use-revolution mailing list use-revolution@lists.runrev.com http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
Re: News of Shafer eBook Publication Plans
Glad to hear about this but I only just ordered Volume 1 yesterday! Pity about the lack of print publishing as I like to read manuals AWAY from the computer. I would hope the Runtime people will consider forming some of the more basic booklets into a users guide as the current documentation is OK for reference but not much good for example and inspiration. Regards Eddie Eddie, with eBooks, you can read them on the computer but you can also print them, and even bind, individually or together, if willing to spend extra money. Up to you. Utter flexibility. Too much hassle, Robert, especially with bigger documents. The problem with printed manuals is that they are always behind as they need a few months lead time for production and require more manpower. And with the complexity of the Transcript and versatility of Rev, they will always tend to be quite big. I agree, but since most programming languages are backwards-compatible, even an out-of-date manual is useful. The nice thing about reading offline is that the reading and thinking aren't constantly interrupted by the compulsion to try things out RIGHT AWAY, so the general ideas penetrate better (at least for me). The other advantage (not insignificant) is that my armchair is MUCH more comfortable that the chair in front of my computer. :o) Eddie ___ use-revolution mailing list use-revolution@lists.runrev.com http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
RE: News of Shafer eBook Publication Plans
Aren't there small-scale publishers that specialize in per item printing? Basically, you send them a pdf of the book, and a list of customers with addresses. They print the book on a double-sided printer, bind it on one of those spiral binding machines, and mail it out to the customer. I know it costs more per item than large-scale printing, but is still not outrageous. Dan, I'd be happy to try to find such a company for you, if you have not already considered this possibility. You can always pursue both approaches - and only publish the book form when someone actually orders a book. Cheers, Jonathan -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Eddie Boyd Sent: Friday, February 25, 2005 2:28 AM To: How to use Revolution Subject: Re: News of Shafer eBook Publication Plans Glad to hear about this but I only just ordered Volume 1 yesterday! Pity about the lack of print publishing as I like to read manuals AWAY from the computer. I would hope the Runtime people will consider forming some of the more basic booklets into a users guide as the current documentation is OK for reference but not much good for example and inspiration. Regards Eddie ___ use-revolution mailing list use-revolution@lists.runrev.com http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution ___ use-revolution mailing list use-revolution@lists.runrev.com http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
Re: News of Shafer eBook Publication Plans
On 2/25/05 6:45 AM, Lynch, Jonathan [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Aren't there small-scale publishers that specialize in per item printing? Basically, you send them a pdf of the book, and a list of customers with addresses. They print the book on a double-sided printer, bind it on one of those spiral binding machines, and mail it out to the customer. I believe CafePress.com has printing on demand. I'm sure there are other similar solutions. Marty Knapp ___ use-revolution mailing list use-revolution@lists.runrev.com http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
RE: News of Shafer eBook Publication Plans
Yup - just checked them out... This page specifically: http://www.cafepress.com/cp/info/sell/books.aspx explains how they do it - seems like a reasonable deal to me. -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Marty Knapp Sent: Friday, February 25, 2005 10:46 AM To: How to use Revolution Subject: Re: News of Shafer eBook Publication Plans On 2/25/05 6:45 AM, Lynch, Jonathan [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Aren't there small-scale publishers that specialize in per item printing? Basically, you send them a pdf of the book, and a list of customers with addresses. They print the book on a double-sided printer, bind it on one of those spiral binding machines, and mail it out to the customer. I believe CafePress.com has printing on demand. I'm sure there are other similar solutions. Marty Knapp ___ use-revolution mailing list use-revolution@lists.runrev.com http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution ___ use-revolution mailing list use-revolution@lists.runrev.com http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
Re: News of Shafer eBook Publication Plans
A, yes, but the problem with online docs is that they tend not to have an index. Judy On Fri, 25 Feb 2005, Robert Brenstein wrote: The problem with printed manuals is that they are always behind as they need a few months lead time for production and require more manpower. And with the complexity of the Transcript and versatility of Rev, they will always tend to be quite big. ___ use-revolution mailing list use-revolution@lists.runrev.com http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
Re: News of Shafer eBook Publication Plans
On Fri, 25 Feb 2005 08:16:16 -0800 (PST), Judy Perry [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: A, yes, but the problem with online docs is that they tend not to have an index. Well, indices can be written - we might get volunteers to do it. In fact I might be such a volunteer for one or more of the books. Forces you to read the text, I find. Graham Graham Samuel / The Living Fossil Co. / UK and France ___ use-revolution mailing list use-revolution@lists.runrev.com http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
Re: News of Shafer eBook Publication Plans
On Feb 25, 2005, at 5:22 AM, Jim Hurley wrote: I hope this isn't too much to ask, but I would like a volume dedicated to my personal DNA. I think RunRev already has a copy; it is apparently encapsulated in my multi-digit license code. If we can figure out how to write a program in Rev to decode the DNA, I'll write about it. We could get rich! Dan ___ use-revolution mailing list use-revolution@lists.runrev.com http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
Re: News of Shafer eBook Publication Plans
I actually use such a company. We may end up, down the road, offering collections of these individual topical eBooklets as a printed book. But our first shot is to get the information available in PDF. I think the mistake I made the first time around was moving too fast for the crowd. Dan On Feb 25, 2005, at 6:45 AM, Lynch, Jonathan wrote: Aren't there small-scale publishers that specialize in per item printing? Basically, you send them a pdf of the book, and a list of customers with addresses. They print the book on a double-sided printer, bind it on one of those spiral binding machines, and mail it out to the customer. I know it costs more per item than large-scale printing, but is still not outrageous. Dan, I'd be happy to try to find such a company for you, if you have not already considered this possibility. You can always pursue both approaches - and only publish the book form when someone actually orders a book. Cheers, Jonathan -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Eddie Boyd Sent: Friday, February 25, 2005 2:28 AM To: How to use Revolution Subject: Re: News of Shafer eBook Publication Plans Glad to hear about this but I only just ordered Volume 1 yesterday! Pity about the lack of print publishing as I like to read manuals AWAY from the computer. I would hope the Runtime people will consider forming some of the more basic booklets into a users guide as the current documentation is OK for reference but not much good for example and inspiration. Regards Eddie ___ use-revolution mailing list use-revolution@lists.runrev.com http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution ___ use-revolution mailing list use-revolution@lists.runrev.com http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution ___ use-revolution mailing list use-revolution@lists.runrev.com http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
Re: News of Shafer eBook Publication Plans
On 2/25/05 7:22 AM, Jim Hurley [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Dan, Good news. Thank you for *your* patients with us. Patients? I didn't know Dan was a doctor... ;-) Ken Ray Sons of Thunder Software Web site: http://www.sonsothunder.com/ Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ___ use-revolution mailing list use-revolution@lists.runrev.com http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
Re: News of Shafer eBook Publication Plans
There's a lot you don't know about me, Ken! Dan On Feb 25, 2005, at 1:37 PM, Ken Ray wrote: On 2/25/05 7:22 AM, Jim Hurley [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Dan, Good news. Thank you for *your* patients with us. Patients? I didn't know Dan was a doctor... ;-) Ken Ray Sons of Thunder Software Web site: http://www.sonsothunder.com/ Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ___ use-revolution mailing list use-revolution@lists.runrev.com http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution ___ use-revolution mailing list use-revolution@lists.runrev.com http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
Re: News of Shafer eBook Publication Plans
Not an excuse. Printed books simply MUST have an index. I really believe that PDFs should too. Judy On Fri, 25 Feb 2005, graham samuel wrote: Well, indices can be written - we might get volunteers to do it. In fact I might be such a volunteer for one or more of the books. Forces you to read the text, I find. ___ use-revolution mailing list use-revolution@lists.runrev.com http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
News of Shafer eBook Publication Plans
Dear Fellow Revolution User: As you know, Runtime Revolution and I have been working for some months trying to find a conventional publisher to handle the second and third volumes of my Software at the Speed of Thought book series. I appreciate your patience while we worked on this problem. The bad news is that we were unable to interest any publisher in the books. The community is too small at this point. Publishers want to see upwards of 50,000 users of a product before they show interest in publishing books about it. While Runtime Revolution certainly plans to reach that level of penetration in the near future, it doesn't have those numbers today. The good news is that we've come up with what I think you'll agree is a dynamite new publishing plan that more than compensates for the missing volumes 2 and 3. First, I am going to release, over the next nine months, at least 10 new mini-books in electronic form covering many of the topics you were expecting to see in Volumes 2 and 3, but taking a different, more topical approach. These eBooks will be offered for sale at prices ranging from $5 to $10 each. This new approach to publishing was a pretty hair-brained idea when I started this process almost two years ago but is now established. That means I'll be publishing deeper content on a somewhat narrower range of topics. Second, we're going to revisit Volume 1 of the book, produce a series of mini-books comprising its content (with corrections, embellishments, and enhancements), and sell these individually at $5-10 each. Revolution remains the absolute best development tool I've ever used and I have every intention of remaining an active and visible member of the community. I'm co-hosting a developer conference in Monterey, CA, this summer, and proceeding apace with my writing. More importantly, I use Revolution every day in the creation of my own products and those of my select client base. Thanks again for your patience. Dan P.S. If you purchased a membership in Revolution Pros, you will receive a separate, personal email outlining the specific way we are proposing to make sure you feel you've been treated fairly, even generously. ___ use-revolution mailing list use-revolution@lists.runrev.com http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
Re: News of Shafer eBook Publication Plans
Great news Dan. I have subscribed to several of the Take Control books produced by TidBits and find it a very good model, allowing me to pay for the bits I need and ignore the stuff I am not interested it, or already know. Good luck, Sarah On 25/02/2005, at 10:58 AM, Dan Shafer wrote: Dear Fellow Revolution User: As you know, Runtime Revolution and I have been working for some months trying to find a conventional publisher to handle the second and third volumes of my Software at the Speed of Thought book series. I appreciate your patience while we worked on this problem. The bad news is that we were unable to interest any publisher in the books. The community is too small at this point. Publishers want to see upwards of 50,000 users of a product before they show interest in publishing books about it. While Runtime Revolution certainly plans to reach that level of penetration in the near future, it doesn't have those numbers today. The good news is that we've come up with what I think you'll agree is a dynamite new publishing plan that more than compensates for the missing volumes 2 and 3. First, I am going to release, over the next nine months, at least 10 new mini-books in electronic form covering many of the topics you were expecting to see in Volumes 2 and 3, but taking a different, more topical approach. These eBooks will be offered for sale at prices ranging from $5 to $10 each. This new approach to publishing was a pretty hair-brained idea when I started this process almost two years ago but is now established. That means I'll be publishing deeper content on a somewhat narrower range of topics. Second, we're going to revisit Volume 1 of the book, produce a series of mini-books comprising its content (with corrections, embellishments, and enhancements), and sell these individually at $5-10 each. ___ use-revolution mailing list use-revolution@lists.runrev.com http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
Re: News of Shafer eBook Publication Plans
First, I am going to release, over the next nine months, at least 10 new mini-books in electronic form covering many of the topics you were expecting to see in Volumes 2 and 3, but taking a different, more topical approach. These eBooks will be offered for sale at prices ranging from $5 to $10 each. This new approach to publishing was a pretty hair-brained idea when I started this process almost two years ago but is now established. That means I'll be publishing deeper content on a somewhat narrower range of topics. Second, we're going to revisit Volume 1 of the book, produce a series of mini-books comprising its content (with corrections, embellishments, and enhancements), and sell these individually at $5-10 each. Great news, Dan! I am really glad to hear that you decided to go that route after all. It surely offers the most flexibility for everyone and will be easier to maintain with future releases of Rev. I think it will actually broaden your audience: some veterans may not be interested in buying an intro book but they may want to get some ebooks on topics they haven't worked with yet. Robert Brenstein ___ use-revolution mailing list use-revolution@lists.runrev.com http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
Re: News of Shafer eBook Publication Plans
Sounds good. Will definitely be a customer... ..h On 25.2.2005 03:14, Robert Brenstein [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: First, I am going to release, over the next nine months, at least 10 new mini-books in electronic form covering many of the topics you were expecting to see in Volumes 2 and 3, but taking a different, more topical approach. These eBooks will be offered for sale at prices ranging from $5 to $10 each. This new approach to publishing was a pretty hair-brained idea when I started this process almost two years ago but is now established. That means I'll be publishing deeper content on a somewhat narrower range of topics. Second, we're going to revisit Volume 1 of the book, produce a series of mini-books comprising its content (with corrections, embellishments, and enhancements), and sell these individually at $5-10 each. Great news, Dan! I am really glad to hear that you decided to go that route after all. It surely offers the most flexibility for everyone and will be easier to maintain with future releases of Rev. I think it will actually broaden your audience: some veterans may not be interested in buying an intro book but they may want to get some ebooks on topics they haven't worked with yet. Robert Brenstein ___ use-revolution mailing list use-revolution@lists.runrev.com http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution Hannu Kokko 99,5% ain't enough ___ use-revolution mailing list use-revolution@lists.runrev.com http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
Re: News of Shafer eBook Publication Plans
Glad to hear about this but I only just ordered Volume 1 yesterday! Pity about the lack of print publishing as I like to read manuals AWAY from the computer. I would hope the Runtime people will consider forming some of the more basic booklets into a users guide as the current documentation is OK for reference but not much good for example and inspiration. Regards Eddie ___ use-revolution mailing list use-revolution@lists.runrev.com http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
Re: News of Shafer eBook Publication Plans
Me, too. Try to hit some Kinkos or Kinkos-like establishment where, given that they actually possess the most recent version of Reader, they can print and bind same for you. Kinkos = self-serve photocopiers and computer biz PLUS professional printers biz. Somewhat copious in the US, or at least Southwest US, in which I live... But, of course, *my* Kinkos only as the version of Reader that is *at least* two versions behind that which is current... :-( Judy On Fri, 25 Feb 2005, Eddie Boyd wrote: Pity about the lack of print publishing as I like to read manuals AWAY from the computer. ___ use-revolution mailing list use-revolution@lists.runrev.com http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
Re: News of Shafer eBook Publication Plans
At 00:56 25/02/2005, you wrote: Dear Fellow Revolution User: Dear Dan As you know, Runtime Revolution and I have been working for some months trying to find a conventional publisher to handle the second and third volumes of my Software at the Speed of Thought book series. I appreciate your patience while we worked on this problem. The bad news is that we were unable to interest any publisher in the books. The community is too small at this point. Publishers want to see upwards of 50,000 users of a product before they show interest in publishing books about it. While Runtime Revolution certainly plans to reach that level of penetration in the near future, it doesn't have those numbers today. This is exactly the sort of thing that occurs on RISC OS all the time. I remember that there was a publisher in England that specialises in small runs of books (up to 10,000 and typically 1-2,000). Mail me privately if you want me to try and get the details for you. I know that some of the BBC BASIC books were published this way and since they are in the UK it may be handy for runrev. All the best Bob -- No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. Version: 7.0.300 / Virus Database: 266.4.0 - Release Date: 22/02/2005 ___ use-revolution mailing list use-revolution@lists.runrev.com http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
