Re: How Else to Interact with Browser (was Re: Revolution Web Browser Plugin)

[Jerry Daniels]

I like your analysis of the situation here. Helped me clarify my own  
thinking. Thank you, Swami.


I use Basecamp a lot, but I am tempted from time to time to write a  
Rev front end to it so I don't have to wait for the Basecamp engine  
to render my pages that could already be rendered in Rev Basecamp  
browser.


Best,

Jerry Daniels

Makers of Galaxy 1.5
http://www.daniels-mara.com/new_in_galaxy_1_5.htm



On Nov 4, 2006, at 10:17 PM, Sivakatirswami wrote:

Well, I'm way out of my depth here so for Dan's .06 cents I can  
perhaps

put in .01 cents.  mostly musings...

I'll state my bottom line first and then launch into a long  
dissertation:


One way Revolution can look at the browser is the same way I look
at Fed Ex. The browser is simply a facile window to the underlying
"real" internet, which is just wires and sockets connecting computers.
The browser is a delivery mechanism... take it one step further... the
browser is to Revolution like, Time Oceanic Cable is to our  
institution:
A contractor which assists us in the delivery, installation and  
configuration

of the tools we need to begin communications.  i.e. in this model
a) the browser has no relationship to presentation or content and
b) assumes if user resistance to downloading a plug-in fades, then
from my experience, that same "resistance loss" will appy equally
to downloading a standalone player. So then, we don't need a plug-in.
If we can get them to download anything... we can get them
to download a standalone, or player

OK then: the browser simple provides
a) a window for access to services
b) a comfortable environment for installation and configuration of  
tools.

c) useful "components" (as Thomas mentioned)  which we won't
detail here: (HTML snippets, access to data on other web sites
AltBrowser if you want it, http calls to xml files etc...)

~ hold you breath.. dissertation begins:


Right within our own work group of 20 people here and within the  
limits -- space of

those directly interesting in our web content around the world.
(and audience would put in the 100,000 + users bracket, not giant,  
but also

not small) I see both trends at work:

1) on the one side we see the well-known strong resistance,
resist using "proprietary" tools (plugins)

The "ostinate resistance" is a protective mechanism:
users  are overloaded, time wise, information wise, learning curve  
wise etc...

They have a strong desire to protect their creative-productivity time
against the wave of "IT doodle" that threatens, in a very real  way,
them from getting any "real work" done in a given, say, 2 hour period.
I think it's really important we understand this in this discussion.
It is not resistance to plug-in, player, widget per se.

The other obvious resistance relates to security and the level of  
intrusion

the user feels he is exposing himself to. 10% of those subscribing to
the Hinduism Today Digital Edition are using bogus email addresses.

on the other hand, this same user has no  problem entering his real
email address on a yahoo user group... he knows and feels comfortable
with yahoo.

What does this tell us:

it has a lot, everything in fact, to do with brand awareness, trust.

My own brand awareness in the internal work group may be very low.
 If I send an email to someone here with a REv app attached, he  
will resist the process
of saving it to his hard-drive, installing it somewhere where he  
can find it.

I will get intercalm calls asking what to do.

That same user has no resistance to going on to the web and clicking
a button that  says "Download for Mac" ... going through familiar  
steps...
he doesn't ask for help.. he know it ends up on his desktop, or  
downloads

folder, he clicks etc

If we understand mind of the user herethis may help in all this  
discussion.

others will have other useful insights: to get "user requirements"
and "usage studies" into this mix of ideas...and they are *not* all  
the

same.

2) On the other hand... for any given application or content that  
has a niche
market where end user demand is extremely high, these "obstinate"  
users will suddenly
do a complete about face. iTunes  is the obviously "macrocosmic"  
example.
If your desire to listen to some music or audio content is that  
strong. you will

go thru any amount of "pain" to get that thing installed on your box.
If the iTunes network library on our main server here goes down,
those "addicted" to music will stop their work and get up and
do anything to get it up and running again.

Point: there is zero resistance if demand is high enough
and the "brand" is trusted.

Has anyone tried to download Real Audio player lately?  Wow! talk  
about

making the user jump through hoops. But obviously people will and
do continue to install Real Player on their boxes.

If you have some YY userbase that is salivating for your ZZ  
content, they will
do anything to get it... At which point, one has to raise the  
question:
if that user ba

How Else to Interact with Browser (was Re: Revolution Web Browser Plugin)

[Richmond Mathewson]

DON'T!

and take a lesson from Google . . . (Oh Dear) . . .

Google are offering various standalones (I have Google
Earth right here on my primary hard drive) - and, we
ask ourselves, why do they not deliver the content
available via Google Earth via a web-page instead:

Well, probably because:

1. The html code could be hacked to blazes by all and
sundry.

2. Fools like me trust Google (well, partly) and
actually got quite excited
at trying out a "new toy".

I agree with Sivakatirswami - lets have a freely
available, downloadable,
multicapable standalone player.

sincerely, Richmond Mathewson



I have just read and signed the online petition:

   "Hinge & Bracket"

hosted on the web by PetitionOnline.com, the free online petition
service, at:

   http://www.PetitionOnline.com/HandB/

I personally agree with what this petition says, and I think you might
agree, too.  If you can spare a moment, please take a look, and 
consider signing yourself.

Richmond Mathewson


Send instant messages to your online friends http://uk.messenger.yahoo.com 
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Re: How Else to Interact with Browser (was Re: Revolution Web Browser Plugin)

[Sivakatirswami]

Well, I'm way out of my depth here so for Dan's .06 cents I can perhaps
put in .01 cents.  mostly musings...

I'll state my bottom line first and then launch into a long dissertation:

One way Revolution can look at the browser is the same way I look
at Fed Ex. The browser is simply a facile window to the underlying
"real" internet, which is just wires and sockets connecting computers.
The browser is a delivery mechanism... take it one step further... the
browser is to Revolution like, Time Oceanic Cable is to our institution:
A contractor which assists us in the delivery, installation and 
configuration

of the tools we need to begin communications.  i.e. in this model
a) the browser has no relationship to presentation or content and
b) assumes if user resistance to downloading a plug-in fades, then
from my experience, that same "resistance loss" will appy equally
to downloading a standalone player. So then, we don't need a plug-in.
If we can get them to download anything... we can get them
to download a standalone, or player

OK then: the browser simple provides
a) a window for access to services
b) a comfortable environment for installation and configuration of tools.
c) useful "components" (as Thomas mentioned)  which we won't
detail here: (HTML snippets, access to data on other web sites
AltBrowser if you want it, http calls to xml files etc...)

~ hold you breath.. dissertation begins:


Right within our own work group of 20 people here and within the limits 
-- space of

those directly interesting in our web content around the world.
(and audience would put in the 100,000 + users bracket, not giant, but also
not small) I see both trends at work:

1) on the one side we see the well-known strong resistance,
resist using "proprietary" tools (plugins)

The "ostinate resistance" is a protective mechanism:
users  are overloaded, time wise, information wise, learning curve wise 
etc...

They have a strong desire to protect their creative-productivity time
against the wave of "IT doodle" that threatens, in a very real  way,
them from getting any "real work" done in a given, say, 2 hour period.
I think it's really important we understand this in this discussion.
It is not resistance to plug-in, player, widget per se.

The other obvious resistance relates to security and the level of intrusion
the user feels he is exposing himself to. 10% of those subscribing to
the Hinduism Today Digital Edition are using bogus email addresses.

on the other hand, this same user has no  problem entering his real
email address on a yahoo user group... he knows and feels comfortable
with yahoo.

What does this tell us:

it has a lot, everything in fact, to do with brand awareness, trust.

My own brand awareness in the internal work group may be very low.
 If I send an email to someone here with a REv app attached, he will 
resist the process
of saving it to his hard-drive, installing it somewhere where he can 
find it.

I will get intercalm calls asking what to do.

That same user has no resistance to going on to the web and clicking
a button that  says "Download for Mac" ... going through familiar steps...
he doesn't ask for help.. he know it ends up on his desktop, or downloads
folder, he clicks etc

If we understand mind of the user herethis may help in all this 
discussion.

others will have other useful insights: to get "user requirements"
and "usage studies" into this mix of ideas...and they are *not* all the
same.

2) On the other hand... for any given application or content that has a 
niche
market where end user demand is extremely high, these "obstinate" users 
will suddenly

do a complete about face. iTunes  is the obviously "macrocosmic" example.
If your desire to listen to some music or audio content is that strong. 
you will

go thru any amount of "pain" to get that thing installed on your box.
If the iTunes network library on our main server here goes down,
those "addicted" to music will stop their work and get up and
do anything to get it up and running again.

Point: there is zero resistance if demand is high enough
and the "brand" is trusted.

Has anyone tried to download Real Audio player lately?  Wow! talk about
making the user jump through hoops. But obviously people will and
do continue to install Real Player on their boxes.

If you have some YY userbase that is salivating for your ZZ content, 
they will

do anything to get it... At which point, one has to raise the question:
if that user base has such a high demand for your content,  does it have
a level of trust that will suffice to get them to download a standalone.
If the brand awareness is raised to a sufficient level, trust goes up 
and download

resistance fades to virtual zero.

OK, this analysis  on the surface leads back to the position already 
stated:
we really don't need a plug-in, or as was stated, "the time for a 
plug-in has already passed."

i.e. the browser is just "FedEx" for Revolution.

3) So "interact with browser" m

Re: How Else to Interact with Browser (was Re: Revolution Web Browser Plugin)

[Stephen Barncard]

Bravo, Andre! For the first time, I get it. Your dissertation 
explains it all. You have defined all the acronyms and made it clear 
what we should be focusing on...


this one goes into the scrapbook.

Although AJAX/DHTML is a very powerful thing, I think people on this 
list keep mixing things, liking comparing oranges to shoes. 
Revolution could not export Flash because Revolution feature set is 
something that is not available for flash, flash is a vector 
animation thing with some scripting language for actions. Rev is a 
computer programing language with hooks for networking, databases, 
encryption and lots of things. They simply don't match. You can't


...


Andre



--
stephen barncard
s a n  f r a n c i s c o
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Re: How Else to Interact with Browser (was Re: Revolution Web Browser Plugin)

[Bernard Devlin]

Andre,

I really appreciate you writing such a long and thoughtful reply to  
this. Especially since you are in Malta, and English is not your  
first language.  You really are an amazing individual (and thankfully  
quite indomitable).


The issues you bring up are very pertinent.  However (and Dan will  
likely chirp in here), I don't see how the message path in Rev can be  
that different from the way that messages pass in Squeak.  The Squeak  
plug-in is a full Squeak/Smalltalk VM, so any message events that  
arise in interacting with the client/ UI are also passing through the  
rest of the Squeak VM.  If those messages (e.g. URL connections) are  
not resolved locally, then they must make network connections in  
order to get a response.  I don't see how this is any different with  
the Rev VM/engine.  I think what you might be imagining is a Rev  
browser plugin that is intimately connected to a Rev server  app, and  
you are envisioning the messages passing in a message path between  
client and server.


I personally think that with the developments in AJAX (as much as you  
might shudder at that acronym, even Alex Russell - the NetWindows/ 
DoJo guru also hated it and railed against it), and the developments  
with Flex, and with Adobe Apollo, the time for a Rev plugin has  
actually passed.  I requested years ago that Runrev produce a plugin  
and a mechanism to decompose stacks to XML and then recompose them.   
I've recently begun on such an exercise myself, and am currently  
working on stacks that are dynamically configurable from XML  
specifications.   For my projects it is no longer important if there  
is a browser plugin - my Rev apps (in terms of layout and workflow)  
are going to be vended as XML and consumed and presented by a Rev  
app.  As far as I'm concerned, the AJAX widgets are still very  
primitive.  I understand how the business model of RunRev relies on   
the scriptlimits and the purchase of the IDE, and I have no  
complaints about that.


So I fully appreciate the limitations of AJAX and the additional load  
it can place server-side.  Suffice it to say, in the current  
application I'm working on it is not the Rev side that leaves much  
room for speed improvements - client-side I can sort a 10,000 row  
table field in 10 ms, but the middleware server is taking 1-3 secs to  
select and return those 10,000 rows.


None of us are really clear what Adobe's Apollo offers, but it  
certainly seems to be offering to close the gap between Flex and Rev,  
and I sincerely hope that RunRev are watching it closely, because it  
could well marginalise Revolution.  I'm building my applications such  
that I will be able to switch between Rev, Flex, Laszlo or Apollo as  
a delivery mechanism.


Regards,

Bernard

BTW... a friend of mine visited Rio, and one of the highspots for him  
was his visit to Niteroi and seeing the Niemeyer museum (the photos  
are enough to make me want to visit Rio too).

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Re: How Else to Interact with Browser (was Re: Revolution Web Browser Plugin)

[Andre Garzia]

Bernard,

Although AJAX/DHTML is a very powerful thing, I think people on this  
list keep mixing things, liking comparing oranges to shoes.  
Revolution could not export Flash because Revolution feature set is  
something that is not available for flash, flash is a vector  
animation thing with some scripting language for actions. Rev is a  
computer programing language with hooks for networking, databases,  
encryption and lots of things. They simply don't match. You can't  
convert one thing to the other. What many toolkits do is use flash to  
call server side methods, the server does the hard part and flash  
just presents it. So again, Rev could not convert to that.


As for AJAX/DHTML thats very powerful and many here already used  
Revolution on the server side + AJAX techniques on the client side.  
This is perfectly doable now, you just need to learn the tricks of  
the trade. As for converting a stack application to a web based  
application, this is trickier than people imagine, there's a lot of  
things that don't match, for example rev is all about absolute  
positioning and the web is all about relative positioning, the most  
used controls in rev are text fields and buttons and in the web they  
are not the most useful things, it's not as straight forward as  
people think to match from one side to the other.


Today here in Malta we had a group of people chating about doing such  
conversions, it is way harder than people think and it would require  
a clever server setup. Javascript and DOM manipulation is very very  
very powerful, its a major tool for anyone that can handles it,  
Javascript is a really nice prototype based language and along with  
Dan Shafer I too enjoy it, depending on what you're doing you can be  
pretty safe with it. Libraries such as YUI handles many of the cross  
browser stuff for you.


People here need to be reminded there's no such thing as AJAX, thats  
just some buzzword for technologies that are here since a long time  
and that AJAX stuff needs a well designed server side component. Any  
ajax application will have DHTML/XHTML + CSS + Javascript on the  
client and something on the server. If that thing is designed  
wrongly, your server will break, your bandwidth costs will soar, you  
should not do roundtrips when you don't need'em. Now asking for  
something that picks stacks that are based on stack -> card ->  
control metaphor, that makes heavy use of a unique technique such as  
the message path and magically it converts it into a two component  
thing that has xhtml + css + javascript + rev on the server side and  
that still has cards and the message path is not something that can  
be looked upon easily. Just as an example, if you have a line in your  
stack script that sends a mouseup to a button, in the AJAX converted  
thingy, this would be on the server script that is the only one  
available to run revolution script code, but the said button would be  
on client ajax stuff and thus not available to the server, the server  
will not be able to push data into the client unless the client  
requests the data. If you keep pooling the server for updates, you do  
unecessary trips to the server and loose bandwitdh and money, so how  
to match a command as simple as sending a mouseup to a button.  
Someone might say that no one would send a mouseup to a button by  
code, but this example would still be true for sending any message  
thru the message path beetween the business logic part (server  
component) and the presentation part (DHTML + AJAX)...


Everyone here keeps asking here for a browser plugin, so, let us be  
realistic and touch topics such as how to match revolution feature  
set to the web. People often see only the presentation layer, okay,  
that is easy to do, but what about the unique things that we all rely  
on such as the message path. How can we map from Rev to XHTML  
container. Thinking about such hard parts might improve the chances  
of ever having something done by third party or the runrev team,  
simply asking for magical converters and filling bugzilla requests  
will simply not help, so what about we chat about how this can  
actually be done, and start slowly step by step thinking on a roadmap  
to get it done without touching the engine code...


Andre


On Nov 4, 2006, at 12:54 AM, Bernard Devlin wrote:


>>
Just a small correction (or perhaps I misread this). Flex produces
Flash ouput (as swf files). I thought Laszlo did the same, but
perhaps it has options for AJAX output too.
<<

Hi Dave

This year Laszlo decided to target AJAX/DHTML as a delivery mechanism.

I've (occasionally) pointed out on this list the need for a browser  
plugin for Rev - there are 3D game companies with browser plugins,  
and the Squeak people have also done one for Smalltalk - it is  
certainly doable.  However, the complaints about the need to  
download a plugin always apply.  Nevertheless, once that plugin has  
been downloaded and 

Re: How Else to Interact with Browser (was Re: Revolution Web Browser Plugin)

[Bernard Devlin]

>>
Just a small correction (or perhaps I misread this). Flex produces
Flash ouput (as swf files). I thought Laszlo did the same, but
perhaps it has options for AJAX output too.
<<

Hi Dave

This year Laszlo decided to target AJAX/DHTML as a delivery mechanism.

I've (occasionally) pointed out on this list the need for a browser  
plugin for Rev - there are 3D game companies with browser plugins,  
and the Squeak people have also done one for Smalltalk - it is  
certainly doable.  However, the complaints about the need to download  
a plugin always apply.  Nevertheless, once that plugin has been  
downloaded and (correctly) installed it is there whenever someone  
comes across Rev stacks.


However, I'm also coming round to the idea that maybe RunRev should  
be augmenting the standalone builder to add a new target - AJAX or  
Flash.  Flash is probably easiest in that there are less variables  
(different browser implementations), but since Laszlo are now doing  
AJAX as a target executable (sorry, if this vernacular is too  
XCode...) when they have been targeting Flash for years, then maybe  
RunRev would be better to go directly to AJAX.  The DoJo javascript  
library is rising to the top as an AJAX library.  I have used it's  
earlier incarnation (as NetWindows) for some years, and it was IMO  
the best of the open-source alternatives.  Javascript/DOM is way more  
powerful than people imagine, but there are so many incompatibilities  
introduced by the different browser vendors.


Anyway, there is a Tasmanian company producing a product called  
Morphik that is doing this for Delphi, c++, c#, and java.  The app is  
produced in those development languages, but can produce a standalone  
version of itself that is basically Javascript/AJAX.


Bernard Devlin


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Re: How Else to Interact with Browser (was Re: Revolution Web Browser Plugin)

[Dave Cragg]

On 3 Nov 2006, at 22:06, Dan Shafer wrote:

Flash is a terribly interesting DELIVERY platform for this class of  
apps but
the development tools for creating such apps suck big time. There  
is clearly
an opportunity here for a way to build an app in Rev and then  
compile it to
Flash and deliver it entirely via the browser. Similarly, there is  
a great
opportunity for doing the same thing and producing AJAX output.  
This is the

direction taken by tools like Laszlo and Flex, which essentially use
JavaScript and XML as their linguistic platforms.


Just a small correction (or perhaps I misread this). Flex produces  
Flash ouput (as swf files). I thought Laszlo did the same, but  
perhaps it has options for AJAX output too.


Cheers
Dave
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Re: How Else to Interact with Browser (was Re: Revolution Web Browser Plugin)

[Dan Shafer]

Since I've made as much noise about this over the years as anyone, I figured
I'd better not bypass this chance to provide what I hope is clear input on
the subject.

For me -- and this may well be overly simplistic -- there are three kinds of
applications: desktop apps, browser apps and client-server apps. Rev is
outstanding at the first, more than adequate (even excellent in some cases)
at the third, and not much help at all with the second. I'm talking here
about full-blown applications that are delivered to and run nearly
completely inside the Web browser environment. Examples include writely,
dabbleDB, JotSpot, BaseCamp, and others. The key idea -- for me, at least --
is that the software uses the admittedly confining presentation space of the
browser window as enhanced by the poorly named AJAX technology set and
requires the user to download nothing. Those are the kinds of apps in which
I am presently interested, which is why my level of activity with Rev has
dropped off considerably in the past few months.

Now, I'm not at all sure it's either necessary or appropriate for Rev to try
to wedge its technology base into that space which is now largely dominated
by JavaScript but which also includes examples of other scripting and
programming languages such as Ruby, Python and Smalltalk.

I am decidedly NOT interested in any app solution that requires my end user
to download a plug-in or anything else.

Flash is a terribly interesting DELIVERY platform for this class of apps but
the development tools for creating such apps suck big time. There is clearly
an opportunity here for a way to build an app in Rev and then compile it to
Flash and deliver it entirely via the browser. Similarly, there is a great
opportunity for doing the same thing and producing AJAX output. This is the
direction taken by tools like Laszlo and Flex, which essentially use
JavaScript and XML as their linguistic platforms.

That's my $0.06 (inflation taken into account along with the length of my
response). :-)

On 11/3/06, Lynn Fredricks <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:



WHAT ELSE? What other options are there? Id like to frame this question
also
within the bounds of use - if you suggest something, is there a practical
use you can think of?

Before diving into the Roadster model, I ask that you go back and read
discussion on the list. I have a very strong opinion about this since I
was
directly involved in the last rev of the Roadster plugin for SuperCard.

Best regards,


Lynn Fredricks
Worldwide Business Operations
Runtime Revolution, Ltd



--
~~
Dan Shafer, Information Product Consultant and Author
http://www.shafermedia.com
Get my book, "Revolution: Software at the Speed of Thought"

From http://www.shafermediastore.com/tech_main.html

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Re: How Else to Interact with Browser (was Re: Revolution Web Browser Plugin)

[Stephen Barncard]

There's STILL a Hypercard list?? Wow.



Lynn,

You might want to look into Tyler Vano's very promising jsCard about 
which he wrote on the HyperCard list.


Best,

Mark



--
stephen barncard
s a n  f r a n c i s c o
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Re: How Else to Interact with Browser (was Re: Revolution Web Browser Plugin)

[Derek Bump]

Lynn,

Well it seems to me that there is 1 other option that may be viable.  A 
protocol loader much like html or ftp, or even a MIME type that is setup 
in the system.


  rev://www.somesite.com/stack.rev

Much like iTunes, and very easy to implement, would consist of the very 
same Dreamcard model that RunRev already employs, but a little modified. 
 Once a Player program is installed, the user clicks a link within the 
browser and boom, the stack loads within a "non-obtrusive" player 
window.  When it's done, the user closes it.


Then, the next evolutionary model in my mind, would be the browser 
plugin.  Embed the stack within the web page itself.  All I know is that 
I'm sure there were complaints from people about having an Acrobat 
plugin... but look how far that's gone these days.



Derek Bump
Dreamscape Software

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Lynn Fredricks wrote:

Hi all,

My bringing this up isnt implying that we are shipping anything tommorrow
but, Im interested in your feedback regarding browser interaction with
Revolution. 


WHAT WE HAVE. Here is a short list of what we can do/is done and probably
could be improved (if Im missing something, feel free to add):

-RevCGI. Server-side applications built with Rev.

-Browser hosting. Served by products like Alt.browser.

WHAT SOME USERS HAVE SUGGESTED. Two other suggestions have been suggested
and one executed in other products previously:

-Flash compiling. Somehow translate a Rev project into Flash.

-"AJAX" compiling. Somehow translate a Rev project into an AJAX like model
that can execute in the browser without a plugin.

-Then there is the Roadster model (ie Rev plugin).

WHAT ELSE? What other options are there? Id like to frame this question also
within the bounds of use - if you suggest something, is there a practical
use you can think of?

Before diving into the Roadster model, I ask that you go back and read
discussion on the list. I have a very strong opinion about this since I was
directly involved in the last rev of the Roadster plugin for SuperCard.

Best regards,


Lynn Fredricks
Worldwide Business Operations
Runtime Revolution, Ltd








-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of 
Derek Bump

Sent: Friday, November 03, 2006 5:56 AM
To: How to use Revolution
Subject: Re: Revolution Web Browser Plugin

Like I said before, if you'd like to see the development of a 
Revolution Plugin or ActiveX object for Web Browsers then get 
on BugZilla or STSRevZilla and vote for Bug #3940.


http://support.runrev.com/bugdatabase/show_bug.cgi?id=3940


Thanks to all those who have voted already!


Derek Bump
Dreamscape Software

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Re: How Else to Interact with Browser (was Re: Revolution Web Browser Plugin)

[Mark Schonewille]

Lynn,

You might want to look into Tyler Vano's very promising jsCard about  
which he wrote on the HyperCard list.


Best,

Mark

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Consultancy and Software Engineering
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Get your store on-line within minutes with Salery Web Store software.  
Download at http://www.salery.biz


Op 3-nov-2006, om 17:25 heeft Lynn Fredricks het volgende geschreven:


Hi all,

My bringing this up isnt implying that we are shipping anything  
tommorrow

but, Im interested in your feedback regarding browser interaction with
Revolution.

WHAT WE HAVE. Here is a short list of what we can do/is done and  
probably

could be improved (if Im missing something, feel free to add):

-RevCGI. Server-side applications built with Rev.

-Browser hosting. Served by products like Alt.browser.

WHAT SOME USERS HAVE SUGGESTED. Two other suggestions have been  
suggested

and one executed in other products previously:

-Flash compiling. Somehow translate a Rev project into Flash.

-"AJAX" compiling. Somehow translate a Rev project into an AJAX  
like model

that can execute in the browser without a plugin.

-Then there is the Roadster model (ie Rev plugin).

WHAT ELSE? What other options are there? Id like to frame this  
question also
within the bounds of use - if you suggest something, is there a  
practical

use you can think of?

Before diving into the Roadster model, I ask that you go back and read
discussion on the list. I have a very strong opinion about this  
since I was
directly involved in the last rev of the Roadster plugin for  
SuperCard.


Best regards,


Lynn Fredricks
Worldwide Business Operations
Runtime Revolution, Ltd




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How Else to Interact with Browser (was Re: Revolution Web Browser Plugin)

[Lynn Fredricks]

Hi all,

My bringing this up isnt implying that we are shipping anything tommorrow
but, Im interested in your feedback regarding browser interaction with
Revolution. 

WHAT WE HAVE. Here is a short list of what we can do/is done and probably
could be improved (if Im missing something, feel free to add):

-RevCGI. Server-side applications built with Rev.

-Browser hosting. Served by products like Alt.browser.

WHAT SOME USERS HAVE SUGGESTED. Two other suggestions have been suggested
and one executed in other products previously:

-Flash compiling. Somehow translate a Rev project into Flash.

-"AJAX" compiling. Somehow translate a Rev project into an AJAX like model
that can execute in the browser without a plugin.

-Then there is the Roadster model (ie Rev plugin).

WHAT ELSE? What other options are there? Id like to frame this question also
within the bounds of use - if you suggest something, is there a practical
use you can think of?

Before diving into the Roadster model, I ask that you go back and read
discussion on the list. I have a very strong opinion about this since I was
directly involved in the last rev of the Roadster plugin for SuperCard.

Best regards,


Lynn Fredricks
Worldwide Business Operations
Runtime Revolution, Ltd







> -Original Message-
> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
> [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of 
> Derek Bump
> Sent: Friday, November 03, 2006 5:56 AM
> To: How to use Revolution
> Subject: Re: Revolution Web Browser Plugin
> 
> Like I said before, if you'd like to see the development of a 
> Revolution Plugin or ActiveX object for Web Browsers then get 
> on BugZilla or STSRevZilla and vote for Bug #3940.
> 
> http://support.runrev.com/bugdatabase/show_bug.cgi?id=3940
> 
> 
> Thanks to all those who have voted already!
> 
> 
> Derek Bump
> Dreamscape Software
> 
> ___
> Compress photos quickly and easily with JPEGCompress!
> http://www.dreamscapesoftware.com/
> 
> ___
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> use-revolution@lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage 
> your subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
> 

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Re: Revolution Web Browser Plugin

[Derek Bump]

Like I said before, if you'd like to see the development of a Revolution 
Plugin or ActiveX object for Web Browsers then get on BugZilla or 
STSRevZilla and vote for Bug #3940.


http://support.runrev.com/bugdatabase/show_bug.cgi?id=3940


Thanks to all those who have voted already!


Derek Bump
Dreamscape Software

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Re: Revolution Web Browser Plugin

[Luis]

That '1 cent' just went up in value in my books!

Cheers,

Luis.


Viktoras Didziulis wrote:

let's hope somebody will do this within the next 5 years ;-). I wonder why
Rev attracted so few Open Source developers and people willing to share
their code. Collection of freely available and reusable Rev libraries
comparing with repositories of languages like Perl, Python or even
Javascript seems just a little bit above then the ground-zero. It is strange
 having in mind the fact that most of the code for Perl, Python and a large
portion of xhtml/javascript and the likes is written in text-only IDE's... 
 
But if we'd focus on this fact, maybe possibility to write code in a notepad

(well, crimson editor and the likes ;-) ) is an advantage... Simply because
you can write it anywhere... Currently scripting in Rev from scratch is not
quite possible or is at least not documented/advertised well enough. May
this distract some OS coders who feel quite comfortable hand-coding their
logic.
 
Besides, keeping in mind current organization of stacks, fields, buttons,

other objects and scripts, Revolution is just a small step away from having
its own document object model. If one could describe programs in
xml/transcript like xhtml/javascript, then this "warm and well familiar"
development model would attract lots of [web] developers, because experience
would be "similar to something I already know". Potentially this could make
Revolution an alternative for web browsers, or even an industry-standard to
deliver web enabled applications, who knows... Three alternative ways of
coding: 1) WSIWYG - e.g. using Revolution IDE, 2) hand coding in Revscript
and 3) describing software in rxml/revscript/css would attract developers
with very diverse coding preferences. The 3-rd option would expose
Revolution to currently exploding realm of user interface markup languages
and thin-client application delivery tools like mozillas XUL, XAML, MXML,
UIML, I3ML, LZX, WasabiXML, GTK+, ONE for MS .NET, Microsoft HTA/HTC apps,
and others.
 
Initially this could seem in conflict with Runtimes' marketing strategy,

because availability of free text-based coding choices would allow thousands
of coders do their jobs without buying Revolution IDE. Still if one would
think again, once people start hand-coding and experience at least a subset
of capabilities of Rev engine, they would rush for Revolution IDE for
exactly the same reason why web developers do buy proprietary WYSIWYG html
builders and tools. 
 
Just my 1 cent 
Viktoras 
 
---Original Message--- 
 
From: Luis 
Date: 11/02/06 18:59:44 
To: How to use Revolution 
Subject: Re: Revolution Web Browser Plugin 
 
 
Richard Gaskin wrote: 
 
 
 
My personal fave, not yet built but could be at any time: 
<http://lists.runrev.com/pipermail/use-revolution/2006-June/083955.html> 

 
Mmmm, chocolate... 
 
Getting OS developers to 'help' would be cool, but imagine if RunRev did 
this, what a selling point! (Ok, another one...). 
 
Cheers, 
 
Luis. 
 
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Re: Revolution Web Browser Plugin

[Matt]

There is a program that i stumbled upon a while ago called mcripper (it was
made in metacard) and what you do is give it a stack and it generates xml
code that represents the stack.  You can also give it the generated xml code
and it will give you a stack. I tested it and the only problem that I found
is when you have a stack saved with colorized script it got the html code
that went with the colors. I believe that it could be fixed by puting the
script into the htmltext of a field and then putting the text of the field
into the script of the object but I have not tried it.

I hope that was of a little help.

--
Computer Geek Software
Send in your own suggestions.
http://compgeekware.googlepages.com
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Re: Revolution Web Browser Plugin

[Viktoras Didziulis]

Well, when I stumbled upon it I had exactly the same feeling. Still feel it
and still wonder why ?.. 
 
Viktoras 
 
---Original Message--- 
 
From: John Craig 
Date: 11/02/06 23:41:08 
To: How to use Revolution 
Subject: Re: Revolution Web Browser Plugin 
 
Just a side comment - I had never heard of Rev and was pleasantly 
surprised when I accidentally stumbled upon it. It's the industry's 
best kept sectret - ssshh! 
 
Viktoras Didziulis wrote: 
> let's hope somebody will do this within the next 5 years ;-). I wonder why

> Rev attracted so few Open Source developers and people willing to share 
> their code 
 
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Re: Revolution Web Browser Plugin

[John Craig]

Just a side comment - I had never heard of Rev and was pleasantly 
surprised when I accidentally stumbled upon it.  It's the industry's 
best kept sectret - ssshh!


Viktoras Didziulis wrote:

let's hope somebody will do this within the next 5 years ;-). I wonder why
Rev attracted so few Open Source developers and people willing to share
their code


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Re: Revolution Web Browser Plugin

[Viktoras Didziulis]

let's hope somebody will do this within the next 5 years ;-). I wonder why
Rev attracted so few Open Source developers and people willing to share
their code. Collection of freely available and reusable Rev libraries
comparing with repositories of languages like Perl, Python or even
Javascript seems just a little bit above then the ground-zero. It is strange
 having in mind the fact that most of the code for Perl, Python and a large
portion of xhtml/javascript and the likes is written in text-only IDE's... 
 
But if we'd focus on this fact, maybe possibility to write code in a notepad
(well, crimson editor and the likes ;-) ) is an advantage... Simply because
you can write it anywhere... Currently scripting in Rev from scratch is not
quite possible or is at least not documented/advertised well enough. May
this distract some OS coders who feel quite comfortable hand-coding their
logic.
 
Besides, keeping in mind current organization of stacks, fields, buttons,
other objects and scripts, Revolution is just a small step away from having
its own document object model. If one could describe programs in
xml/transcript like xhtml/javascript, then this "warm and well familiar"
development model would attract lots of [web] developers, because experience
would be "similar to something I already know". Potentially this could make
Revolution an alternative for web browsers, or even an industry-standard to
deliver web enabled applications, who knows... Three alternative ways of
coding: 1) WSIWYG - e.g. using Revolution IDE, 2) hand coding in Revscript
and 3) describing software in rxml/revscript/css would attract developers
with very diverse coding preferences. The 3-rd option would expose
Revolution to currently exploding realm of user interface markup languages
and thin-client application delivery tools like mozillas XUL, XAML, MXML,
UIML, I3ML, LZX, WasabiXML, GTK+, ONE for MS .NET, Microsoft HTA/HTC apps,
and others.
 
Initially this could seem in conflict with Runtimes' marketing strategy,
because availability of free text-based coding choices would allow thousands
of coders do their jobs without buying Revolution IDE. Still if one would
think again, once people start hand-coding and experience at least a subset
of capabilities of Rev engine, they would rush for Revolution IDE for
exactly the same reason why web developers do buy proprietary WYSIWYG html
builders and tools. 
 
Just my 1 cent 
Viktoras 
 
---Original Message--- 
 
From: Luis 
Date: 11/02/06 18:59:44 
To: How to use Revolution 
Subject: Re: Revolution Web Browser Plugin 
 
 
Richard Gaskin wrote: 
 
 
 
> 
> My personal fave, not yet built but could be at any time: 
> <http://lists.runrev.com/pipermail/use-revolution/2006-June/083955.html> 
> 
 
Mmmm, chocolate... 
 
Getting OS developers to 'help' would be cool, but imagine if RunRev did 
this, what a selling point! (Ok, another one...). 
 
Cheers, 
 
Luis. 
 
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Re: Revolution Web Browser Plugin

[Luis]

Richard Gaskin wrote:





My personal fave, not yet built but could be at any time:




Mmmm, chocolate...

Getting OS developers to 'help' would be cool, but imagine if RunRev did 
this, what a selling point! (Ok, another one...).


Cheers,

Luis.





--
 Richard Gaskin
 Managing Editor, revJournal
 ___
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Re: Revolution Web Browser Plugin

[Richard Gaskin]

Luis wrote:

Andre Garzia wrote:

well, this topic has been touched before. Many times. :-)


I suppose that indicates it's need... ;)


What people want is not always what they need. :)

The attraction of a browser plugin is ubiquity -- all you'd need is a 
URL and you can deliver to goods. Or see it seems at first glance.


In practice, of course this would mean locating, downloading, and 
installing yet another plugin, in a world where Flash is already 
pre-installed.


At that point, authoring for a plugin other than Flash becomes about as 
much of an issue for IT managers and end-users as locating, downloading, 
and installing the Rev player or your own custom player, so much of the 
primary benefit of ubiquity is lost in real-world deployment scenarios.


These snippets from previous discussions may be of interest:

Background on the nature and scope of the problem:



Options for solutions:




My personal fave, not yet built but could be at any time:



--
 Richard Gaskin
 Managing Editor, revJournal
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Re: Revolution Web Browser Plugin

[Luis]

Hiya Mr Rev Server maker,

Andre Garzia wrote:

Luis and friends,

well, this topic has been touched before. Many times. :-)


I suppose that indicates it's need... ;)



I'll touch simple things first, the stacks and cards metaphor of 
Revolution can be presented in a XML format, but anyway, anything can be 
represented in XML format. XML cannot contain binary data, this is a 
violation of the spec. You binary data must be encoded with base64 or 
some other encoding. Not all browsers support SVG also.


XML being pretty much 'freeform' when it comes to tags, the spec could 
easily be tailored for internal use, such as enclosing binary data. For 
internal use this doesn't seem bad to me: You see something good and you 
make it work for your situation.
Now, it 'appears' to be binary data (I believe someone indicated this 
also) but it could be anything else encoded in there.


True, not all browsers support SVG, but there are plugins available.



My systems as seen in http://www.andregarzia.com are not ready, and they 
are targeted at developing web applications with a HTML interface and 
web services using REST and XML-RPC.


As for the eternal struggle of those in favor of a web plugin, let us 
think one thing first. Web plugins are not magical, people still have to 
download and install the plugin, this is not automatical. The plugin 
would at least weight as much as the engine, so it is actually the same 
thing as downloading a Revolution stack player. Plugins must be built 
not only for each browser because each uses a different interface but 
also for each platform. I don't think a browser plugin is a wise idea, 
there's not enough resources to mantain it. I think there are only two 
ways to go:


1) Use thin clients. Many enterprizes are moving away from the 
browser. The browser is dumb and you spend a lot more time dealing with 
its shortcomings than coding your own solution. I advise people to read 
the "beyond the browser" article by Richard Gaskin.
2) In case you really need the browser, use XHTML + Ajax techniques. 
This needs not a plugin, you can just code it server side with Rev and 
client side with Javascript.


Yep, I prefer thin clients, but flexibility of choice is what I'm 
thinking of. You still have to download a thin client!
The ability to do this within Rev, having a Rev card as a 'web page' 
would be a neat trick, and might answer a few needs.




A thing that could be done is to make the engine output java bytecode, 
this would allow a stack to be run inside JVM which would bring it to 
the browser arena, but again, this would involve rewritting the whole 
engine and debugging the new engine and also the JVM, again, there's no 
resource for that I think, it's RunRev not Microsoft.


Yeah, that would be a task and a half! Mind you, I'm curious as to what 
approach to the VM, if it is a VM, RunRev uses.


Cheers,

Luis.




Andre




On Nov 1, 2006, at 9:14 AM, Luis wrote:


Well, from a while ago the XML nature of the Cards was bandied about.
I would have through these could be parsed and the appropriate 'web 
equivalent' controls then written to an HTML file, precluding the need 
for a plugin.
A running Rev instance could do this to itself, saving off the 
contents of the Card view. Stuff like buttons should be ok as long as 
they are 'web safe' images, then there's SVG too.


Interaction would need cgi processing for the data to be sent back to 
the running app, or dealing with it within a Rev Web Server: 
http://www.andregarzia.com/revwiki/page/RevOnRockets


The only problem is the embedded binary data: Are there docs that 
detail its structure?


Cheers,

Luis.



Viktoras Didziulis wrote:

Revolution applets, with possibility to communicate with web page via
javascript or revscript on a web page would be a very handy solution to
deliver java-like applets without all the complexity and overheads of 
java

language. I vote for this.  Best Viktoras
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Re: Revolution Web Browser Plugin

[Andre Garzia]

Luis and friends,

well, this topic has been touched before. Many times. :-)

I'll touch simple things first, the stacks and cards metaphor of  
Revolution can be presented in a XML format, but anyway, anything can  
be represented in XML format. XML cannot contain binary data, this is  
a violation of the spec. You binary data must be encoded with base64  
or some other encoding. Not all browsers support SVG also.


My systems as seen in http://www.andregarzia.com are not ready, and  
they are targeted at developing web applications with a HTML  
interface and web services using REST and XML-RPC.


As for the eternal struggle of those in favor of a web plugin, let us  
think one thing first. Web plugins are not magical, people still have  
to download and install the plugin, this is not automatical. The  
plugin would at least weight as much as the engine, so it is actually  
the same thing as downloading a Revolution stack player. Plugins must  
be built not only for each browser because each uses a different  
interface but also for each platform. I don't think a browser plugin  
is a wise idea, there's not enough resources to mantain it. I think  
there are only two ways to go:


	1) Use thin clients. Many enterprizes are moving away from the  
browser. The browser is dumb and you spend a lot more time dealing  
with its shortcomings than coding your own solution. I advise people  
to read the "beyond the browser" article by Richard Gaskin.
	2) In case you really need the browser, use XHTML + Ajax techniques.  
This needs not a plugin, you can just code it server side with Rev  
and client side with Javascript.


A thing that could be done is to make the engine output java  
bytecode, this would allow a stack to be run inside JVM which would  
bring it to the browser arena, but again, this would involve  
rewritting the whole engine and debugging the new engine and also the  
JVM, again, there's no resource for that I think, it's RunRev not  
Microsoft.


Andre




On Nov 1, 2006, at 9:14 AM, Luis wrote:


Well, from a while ago the XML nature of the Cards was bandied about.
I would have through these could be parsed and the appropriate 'web  
equivalent' controls then written to an HTML file, precluding the  
need for a plugin.
A running Rev instance could do this to itself, saving off the  
contents of the Card view. Stuff like buttons should be ok as long  
as they are 'web safe' images, then there's SVG too.


Interaction would need cgi processing for the data to be sent back  
to the running app, or dealing with it within a Rev Web Server:  
http://www.andregarzia.com/revwiki/page/RevOnRockets


The only problem is the embedded binary data: Are there docs that  
detail its structure?


Cheers,

Luis.



Viktoras Didziulis wrote:

Revolution applets, with possibility to communicate with web page via
javascript or revscript on a web page would be a very handy  
solution to
deliver java-like applets without all the complexity and overheads  
of java

language. I vote for this.  Best Viktoras
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Re: Revolution Web Browser Plugin

[Derek Bump]

Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of MisterX

Sent: Wednesday, 01 November, 2006 04:26
To: 'How to use Revolution'
Subject: RE: Revolution Web Browser Plugin

offlist...

this has been requested since years (at least 5) continually.

unfortunately it's been ignored or put-off or you will get a 
marketing lesson from those who think they know better in the 
mailist...


cheers
Xavier


-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Derek 
Bump

Sent: Wednesday, 01 November, 2006 03:54
To: How to use Revolution
Subject: Revolution Web Browser Plugin

I just tried searching Bugzilla for anything related to an 
enhancement 
request for a Web Browser Plugin that would allow 
Revolution Projects 
to be viewed within Internet Explorer, Safari, Firefox and 
any other 

browser out there.  Sadly, I didn't see anything.

Has anyone requested this type of enhancement before?  If 
not, is this 
something to request, or is there some genius programmer out there 
already working on something like this?


Derek Bump
Dreamscape Software

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Re: Revolution Web Browser Plugin

[Luis]

Well, from a while ago the XML nature of the Cards was bandied about.
I would have through these could be parsed and the appropriate 'web 
equivalent' controls then written to an HTML file, precluding the need 
for a plugin.
A running Rev instance could do this to itself, saving off the contents 
of the Card view. Stuff like buttons should be ok as long as they are 
'web safe' images, then there's SVG too.


Interaction would need cgi processing for the data to be sent back to 
the running app, or dealing with it within a Rev Web Server: 
http://www.andregarzia.com/revwiki/page/RevOnRockets


The only problem is the embedded binary data: Are there docs that detail 
its structure?


Cheers,

Luis.



Viktoras Didziulis wrote:

Revolution applets, with possibility to communicate with web page via
javascript or revscript on a web page would be a very handy solution to
deliver java-like applets without all the complexity and overheads of java
language. I vote for this. 
 
Best 
Viktoras

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RE: Revolution Web Browser Plugin

[Viktoras Didziulis]

Revolution applets, with possibility to communicate with web page via
javascript or revscript on a web page would be a very handy solution to
deliver java-like applets without all the complexity and overheads of java
language. I vote for this. 
 
Best 
Viktoras
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RE: Revolution Web Browser Plugin

[MisterX]

Ouch, what did I said at 4 AM waking up?!

I wrote a huge response for 2 hours... positive but giving away too many
hints...

Lets rewrite clearer... sorry for the offensive words this morning to the
better knowing...

What I mean is that you can use rev on the web but via cgi.

You can't manipulate stack parts, but then there's a bigger DOM world out
there for the taking... I haven't tried ajax with the cgi though... don't
know if it will handle the threads either - BUT with svg graphics, ajax
techniques something IS definitely possible! ;)

Using Apache is probably easier and more efficient though ;)

Rev in a web page makes and doesn't make sense, though... For one, rev an an
application maker, makes it too easy compared to the hastle of making web
pages!

And take the browser's added weight/distraction away too! And it's faster in
response time too. Alas, Rev is not as standard looking as the browser
(starting but there's a big detail missing... it doesn't have the text
publishing and DOM support.

Using rev to make web plugin applications would be awesome! Easy! Yet it
wouldn't support DOM. HTML either wouldn't be supported correctly via
clipboard, and the buttons wouldn't be as awkward looking sometimes... 

http://www.google.com/ig is possible though... surely...

Rev in a Web in a plugin?

Unlike Acrobat you can't really do text formating without QuarkXpress-like
layouts in rev (watchout for text overflow...). Actually you can't make a
simple "wordpad" emulator. You can't have different alignments per
paragraph! Actually you can...

Unlike real html, you can't do pretty tables in rev easily either... Yes,
there's workarounds, but then the effort required is multiplied a lot (like
per column field)! And if you need to change the fixedlineheight to
non-fixed, you loose the hgrids, scrolling and selecting becomes a chore in
screen updates too...

I wrote for three hours about this because this is a can of worms! And I've
gone through it not just once... so maybe a rev plugin for graphics would be
cool but... im not sure it's going to be compatible or as good looking as
the web parts around it... 

And I learned quite a bit from it! Mostly that you use the web for remote
work. Firewalls can be a blocker for compiled apps using ports for example
or you can't run any downloaded exe in some corporate networks/computer
builds sometimes. But compiled apps are much faster than any web based
system - no matter how fast your network! Ajax resolves this a bit... It
sure makes the web closer to runrev in appearance but it's still far (light
years) from being as easy as making apps in rev. 

Problem is that web development goes faster than light... The good thing is
that rev can serve up any web page anytime you ask it... just point your
browser to 127.0.0.1 to any port 80 socket waiting stack! What it replies is
just a question of what you throw at it from rev! 

Thanks to Chipp, there's a solution to that text formating issue with
alignments for your stacks. making html tables and dropping them into an
altbrowser fields should be easy!

twas my 2 cents in 3 hours :)

A thousand excuses for the offlist-intended rudeness intended for those who
tend to say no and add personal opinions or noise to signal. I wanted to say
something fair and concrete to not disfavor neither rev's achievements and
it's users needs.

Certainly web delivery of your stack would be cool! We can't deny the fact
and lack of feature...

Good morning Europe
Xavier



> -Original Message-
> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
> [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of MisterX
> Sent: Wednesday, 01 November, 2006 04:26
> To: 'How to use Revolution'
> Subject: RE: Revolution Web Browser Plugin
> 
> offlist...
> 
> this has been requested since years (at least 5) continually.
> 
> unfortunately it's been ignored or put-off or you will get a 
> marketing lesson from those who think they know better in the 
> mailist...
> 
> cheers
> Xavier
> 
> > -Original Message-
> > From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> > [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Derek 
> > Bump
> > Sent: Wednesday, 01 November, 2006 03:54
> > To: How to use Revolution
> > Subject: Revolution Web Browser Plugin
> > 
> > I just tried searching Bugzilla for anything related to an 
> enhancement 
> > request for a Web Browser Plugin that would allow 
> Revolution Projects 
> > to be viewed within Internet Explorer, Safari, Firefox and 
> any other 
> > browser out there.  Sadly, I didn't see anything.
> > 
> > Has anyone requested this type of enhancement before?  If 
> not, is this 
> > something to request, or is there some genius programmer out there 
> > already working on som

Re: Revolution Web Browser Plugin

[Derek Bump]

Alright, I added the Enhancement Request #3940.  Just don't mock me over 
my amazingly poor writing skills.  I'd like to put "Because it would be 
really cool!", but I felt I had to justify the request.


So, if you want a Browser Control, then vote for bug 3940, and add your 
own two cents if you feel like it:


http://support.runrev.com/bugdatabase/show_bug.cgi?id=3940


Derek Bump
Dreamscape Software

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Bill Marriott wrote:
By all means enter this feature request into the system and let us know the 
link so we can "vote" for it. It's been discussed on the list before with 
great passion, but I don't think it's made its way into BugZilla, and I 
don't think anyone's working on it as a 3rd-party product.


"Derek Bump" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote 
in message news:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
I just tried searching Bugzilla for anything related to an enhancement 
request for a Web Browser Plugin that would allow Revolution Projects to be 
viewed within Internet Explorer, Safari, Firefox and any other browser out 
there.  Sadly, I didn't see anything.


Has anyone requested this type of enhancement before?  If not, is this 
something to request, or is there some genius programmer out there already 
working on something like this?




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Re: Revolution Web Browser Plugin

[Bill Marriott]

By all means enter this feature request into the system and let us know the 
link so we can "vote" for it. It's been discussed on the list before with 
great passion, but I don't think it's made its way into BugZilla, and I 
don't think anyone's working on it as a 3rd-party product.

"Derek Bump" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote 
in message news:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
>I just tried searching Bugzilla for anything related to an enhancement 
>request for a Web Browser Plugin that would allow Revolution Projects to be 
>viewed within Internet Explorer, Safari, Firefox and any other browser out 
>there.  Sadly, I didn't see anything.
>
> Has anyone requested this type of enhancement before?  If not, is this 
> something to request, or is there some genius programmer out there already 
> working on something like this?



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RE: Revolution Web Browser Plugin

[MisterX]

offlist...

this has been requested since years (at least 5) continually.

unfortunately it's been ignored or put-off or you will get a marketing
lesson from those who think they know better in the mailist...

cheers
Xavier

> -Original Message-
> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
> [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of 
> Derek Bump
> Sent: Wednesday, 01 November, 2006 03:54
> To: How to use Revolution
> Subject: Revolution Web Browser Plugin
> 
> I just tried searching Bugzilla for anything related to an 
> enhancement request for a Web Browser Plugin that would allow 
> Revolution Projects to be viewed within Internet Explorer, 
> Safari, Firefox and any other browser out there.  Sadly, I 
> didn't see anything.
> 
> Has anyone requested this type of enhancement before?  If 
> not, is this something to request, or is there some genius 
> programmer out there already working on something like this?
> 
> Derek Bump
> Dreamscape Software
> 
> ___
> Compress photos quickly and easily with JPEGCompress!
> http://www.dreamscapesoftware.com/
> 
> 
> ___
> use-revolution mailing list
> use-revolution@lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage 
> your subscription preferences:
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