subject:"RE\: docsWiki"

Re: docsWiki

2005-10-26 Thread David Bovill



On 26 Oct 2005, at 21:36, Marielle Lange wrote:

Drupal is  cleanly designed with extensibility in mind and more  
flexible. Drupal provides a standard high-level API for developing  
extensions and making it easier to extend Drupal in a standard way  
with uniform look-and-feel. Drupal provides better support for  
internationalization through i18n module. Drupal has better support  
of Search-Engine-Friendly URLs in core and through modules. Drupal  
supports multiple sites with a single installation with fine- 
grained access control and ability to selectively share  
configuration settings and database tables. Drupal comes with  
better templating system.


Sure Drupal is nice. There are a couple of projects I have been  
partially involved with that use Drupal - no real complaints.
... Drupal XUL  
with XMLRPC. Anticipating the future, xul compatibility is  
something very good to have.


Yes - not exactly live yet :) Also Drupal XMLRPC is a php file! -  
drupal is written in python by the way. This is quite telling:


- http://trac.civicspacelabs.com/cgi-bin/trac.cgi/file/trunk/ 
modules/drupal.module


 The XMLRPC library and Drupal being documented and maintained using  
Trac! Basically Drupal is great for a kitchen sink community site,  
but it is not a dedicated developer resource tool. We don't need all  
the Drupal stuff - we need effective collaborative software  
development tools integrated into Rev.



3) Code and binary stack versioning linked to wiki documentation


Drupal features content versioning. It also supports taxonomy  
support  (we will need this too, this will become more and more  
important over the next 3 years).


Content versioning is not code versioning - most wiki's don't store  
the full history, can loose historical data, and do not support  
anything other than recent versions - no support for binary  
versioning (ie stacks) and no branching etc




Additionally I have requirements to add the following:

1) Issue tracking (tickets) and milestone support


This means there is a main manager and a support service. Is this  
realistic? If you propose support, you give users a reason to  
expect it. Do we really want that (i.e., to end up doing  
revolution's job)? Isn't open comments more appropriate?


No. Just an organised way for people to report problems and plan  
their sub-projects - milestones etc. i can see people using it to  
develop components they wish to release and possibly sell - a few  
people would use this if it helps them cooperate with other  
developers to achieve their goal - and is easier to use than setting  
up something themselves.


Best is probably to install both and put them to the test for a  
month and then check up what are their pros and cons (often you  
discover annoyances only by experience).


Shall we move this to a small group discussion? (somewhere on a  
wiki, with occasional reports on this list)


I would say not until there are more than 2 and a half of us :) Also  
my guess is the discussion of wiki / web site integration with Rev is  
not entirely off interest to the list - even if they don't fancy  
actively supporting something that involves work yet :) Any request  
we move the discussion elsewhere?

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Re: docsWiki

2005-10-26 Thread Marielle Lange

David,

Many thanks for that long reply. I have added to the file where I
keep all suggestions (still on my computer... will move it to a wiki
page this evening).

Yes -- and I have code to read and write to an online wiki (at the
moment not with authentication for TikiWiki) - I am aiming to use
ssh and certificates for any secure and easy to script work on this
- lot easier than coding the session managment.

Great!

revdocs.org / net / com sound fine to me. Happy to register them
today if you want on behalf of any group that want to take this
forward.

We have one vote for revdocs.org (probably yours).

I have moved off TikiWiki and MediaWiki has the same problems -
hard to integrate with Rev and not purpose built for the task.

Yes, I have the same opinion. It is possible to hack tikiwiki but
that's probably at least a week work. Then we will need to hack it
for something else, etc., etc. Not the best fit.

The only wiki that supports all of these is Jira:

- http://www.atlassian.com/software/jira/
- http://confluence.atlassian.com/display/JIRAEXT/JIRA
+Subversion+plugin

It is not open source, but is free for open source projects. It is
a robust commercial product used by MySQl and a number of large
open source community. Very well designed.

Trac is the only open source solution that comes close:

- http://www.edgewall.com/trac/

We have it installed here, but not with the SVN bit and syntax
colouring working here. It also lacks XML-RPC support at the
moment, but using https we can work around that.

Regarding hosting - I can offer this on a dedicated server if a
small group of us would like to contribute.

I had a colorization module in Drupal, so I started checking out
Drupal with the feature listed (before I came across Jira). Drupal is
free (GNU GENERAL PUBLIC LICENSE -- no restriction I could find
inhttp://drupal.org/LICENSE.txt).

Drupal is an open-source platform and content management system for
building dynamic web sites offering a broad range of features and
services including user administration, publishing workflow,
discussion capabilities, news aggregation, metadata functionalities
using controlled vocabularies and XML publishing for content sharing
purposes. Equipped with a powerful blend of features and
configurability, Drupal can support a diverse range of web projects
ranging from personal weblogs to large community-driven sites.

Anybody on this list familiar with Jira and Drupal and can offer some
advice?

These are what I would suggest are the requirements for the best
documentation wiki for our purpose:

1) Robust well supported open source wiki

What I read at
Drupal is cleanly designed with extensibility in mind and more
flexible. Drupal provides a standard high-level API for developing
extensions and making it easier to extend Drupal in a standard way
with uniform look-and-feel. Drupal provides better support for
internationalization through i18n module. Drupal has better support
of Search-Engine-Friendly URLs in core and through modules. Drupal
supports multiple sites with a single installation with fine-grained
access control and ability to selectively share configuration
settings and database tables. Drupal comes with better templating
system.

2) Full wiki functionality revealed via web services - XmlRPC
for instance - to allow direct integration with Rev

Apparently, it meets the criterion for web service:

Honestly, for 90% of sites, there is no reason that a sub-five-minute
Drupal install won’t accomplish almost all of the work involved in
starting a website immediately, and it has the nicest (and one of the
best documented) plugin systems I have ever worked with. You aren’t
going to come up with something better than these frameworks and
still have time for what you were really trying to do, a cool web
service.

... Drupal XUL with
XMLRPC. Anticipating the future, xul compatibility is something very
good to have.

3) Code and binary stack versioning linked to wiki documentation

Drupal features content versioning. It also supports taxonomy
support (we will need this too, this will become more and more
important over the next 3 years).

4) Extensible syntax highlighting

They have a very powerful code colorization module (drupal.org/node/21368>). Then it is as simple as writing type="language">... in your page.

5) Email notifications for changes
6) Simple navigation

This seems to be the case: http://drupal.org/. The look is a lot more
modern than tikiwiki.

The basic functionality I imagine is to have a simple site with an
index / outlin

RE: docsWiki

2005-10-26 Thread Lynch, Jonathan

Hi David...

Wow, you really know your wiki!  Very impressive. I am up for
participating and contributing, so if you set it up, count me in.

Take care,

Jonathan

-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of David
Bovill
Sent: Wednesday, October 26, 2005 10:46 AM
To: How to use Revolution
Subject: Re: docsWiki

On 26 Oct 2005, at 11:57, Marielle Lange wrote:

>> Could an expert scripter create a template rev stack  that would  
>> wikify all the existing revdocs in one fell swoop and send them  
>> to  their appropriate places in the wiki/web structure (however  
>> that works for wikis, no idea here).   Just a question.  I'm sure  
>> it's not easy or someone would have done it.
>
> I wouldn't call myself an expert scripter but
> (1) I have already written an html 2 wiki translator for my own needs
> (2) I have already written a rev application that let you edit wiki  
> documents on the desktop:
> http://projects.lexicall.org/portal/wikipad.php
> (3) I have a start of a colorisation routine (to apply colorisation  
> according to the wiki syntax).

Yes -- and I have code to read and write to an online wiki (at the  
moment not with authentication for TikiWiki) - I am aiming to use ssh  
and certificates for any secure and easy to script work on this - lot  
easier than coding the session managment.

> What do you suggest for the name?  The following names are  
> available:  revdocs.co.uk, revdocs.org.uk, revdocs.ltd.uk,  
> revdocs.plc.uk, revdocs.me.uk, revdocs.com, revdocs.net,  
> revdocs.org, revdocs.info, revdocs.biz  (with xtalk, all  
> interesting ones are registered).

revdocs.org / net / com sound fine to me. Happy to register them  
today if you want on behalf of any group that want to take this forward.

> Many providers nowadays give access to Fantastico. This means that  
> any of the packages below can be installed at the click of a mouse.  
> The pros and cons of each package can be evaluated at:  opensourcecms.com/>  (a website that gives you the opportunity to  
> "try out" some of the best php/mysql based free and open source  
> software systems in the world). For my wiki, I use tikiwiki and I  
> am very happy with it ). Wikipedia uses media wiki (http:// 
> www.mediawiki.org/wiki/MediaWiki). If you have any experience with  
> any of these and strongly recommend one for the purpose of hosting  
> software documentation, give a shout.

I have moved off TikiWiki and MediaWiki has the same problems - hard  
to integrate with Rev and not purpose built for the task. These are  
what I would suggest are the requirements for the best documentation  
wiki for our purpose:

 1) Robust well supported open source wiki
 2) Full wiki functionality revealed via web services - XmlRPC  
for instance - to allow direct integration with Rev
 3) Code and binary stack versioning linked to wiki documentation
 4) Extensible syntax highlighting
 5) Email notifications for changes
 6) Simple navigation and the ability

The basic functionality I imagine is to have a simple site with an  
index / outline of the documentation which would automatically be  
generated from the wiki. A user could use the web site to contribute  
to the wiki or access, read and write to the wiki directly from  
within Revolution. There would also be a section of code snippets and  
handlers with SVN for version management linked to the wiki  
documentation for the code. A user would be able to search and  
download these code snippets directly from within Revolution.

Additionally I have requirements to add the following:

 1) Issue tracking (tickets) and milestone support
 2) LDAP support
 3) Folksonomy tag support - ie video, regEx, recusive

The only wiki that supports all of these is Jira:

  - http://www.atlassian.com/software/jira/
  - http://confluence.atlassian.com/display/JIRAEXT/JIRA 
+Subversion+plugin

It is not open source, but is free for open source projects. It is a  
robust commercial product used by MySQl and a number of large open  
source community. Very well designed.

Trac is the only open source solution that comes close:

 - http://www.edgewall.com/trac/

We have it installed here, but not with the SVN bit and syntax  
colouring working here. It also lacks XML-RPC support at the moment,  
but using https we can work around that.

Regarding hosting - I can offer this on a dedicated server if a small  
group of us would like to contribute.

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Re: docsWiki

2005-10-26 Thread David Bovill

On 26 Oct 2005, at 11:57, Marielle Lange wrote:

Could an expert scripter create a template rev stack that would
wikify all the existing revdocs in one fell swoop and send them
to their appropriate places in the wiki/web structure (however
that works for wikis, no idea here). Just a question. I'm sure
it's not easy or someone would have done it.

I wouldn't call myself an expert scripter but
(1) I have already written an html 2 wiki translator for my own needs
(2) I have already written a rev application that let you edit wiki
documents on the desktop:

http://projects.lexicall.org/portal/wikipad.php
(3) I have a start of a colorisation routine (to apply colorisation
according to the wiki syntax).

Yes -- and I have code to read and write to an online wiki (at the
moment not with authentication for TikiWiki) - I am aiming to use ssh
and certificates for any secure and easy to script work on this - lot
easier than coding the session managment.

What do you suggest for the name? The following names are
available: revdocs.co.uk, revdocs.org.uk, revdocs.ltd.uk,
revdocs.plc.uk, revdocs.me.uk, revdocs.com, revdocs.net,
revdocs.org, revdocs.info, revdocs.biz (with xtalk, all
interesting ones are registered).

revdocs.org / net / com sound fine to me. Happy to register them
today if you want on behalf of any group that want to take this forward.

Many providers nowadays give access to Fantastico. This means that
any of the packages below can be installed at the click of a mouse.
The pros and cons of each package can be evaluated at: opensourcecms.com/> (a website that gives you the opportunity to
"try out" some of the best php/mysql based free and open source
software systems in the world). For my wiki, I use tikiwiki and I
am very happy with it ). Wikipedia uses media wiki (http://
www.mediawiki.org/wiki/MediaWiki). If you have any experience with
any of these and strongly recommend one for the purpose of hosting
software documentation, give a shout.

I have moved off TikiWiki and MediaWiki has the same problems - hard
to integrate with Rev and not purpose built for the task. These are
what I would suggest are the requirements for the best documentation
wiki for our purpose:

1) Robust well supported open source wiki
2) Full wiki functionality revealed via web services - XmlRPC
for instance - to allow direct integration with Rev

3) Code and binary stack versioning linked to wiki documentation
4) Extensible syntax highlighting
5) Email notifications for changes
6) Simple navigation and the ability

The basic functionality I imagine is to have a simple site with an
index / outline of the documentation which would automatically be
generated from the wiki. A user could use the web site to contribute
to the wiki or access, read and write to the wiki directly from
within Revolution. There would also be a section of code snippets and
handlers with SVN for version management linked to the wiki
documentation for the code. A user would be able to search and
download these code snippets directly from within Revolution.

Additionally I have requirements to add the following:

1) Issue tracking (tickets) and milestone support
2) LDAP support
3) Folksonomy tag support - ie video, regEx, recusive

The only wiki that supports all of these is Jira:

- http://www.atlassian.com/software/jira/
- http://confluence.atlassian.com/display/JIRAEXT/JIRA
+Subversion+plugin

It is not open source, but is free for open source projects. It is a
robust commercial product used by MySQl and a number of large open
source community. Very well designed.

Trac is the only open source solution that comes close:

- http://www.edgewall.com/trac/

We have it installed here, but not with the SVN bit and syntax
colouring working here. It also lacks XML-RPC support at the moment,
but using https we can work around that.

Regarding hosting - I can offer this on a dedicated server if a small
group of us would like to contribute.

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Re: docsWiki

2005-10-26 Thread Marielle Lange


Hi Mark,


Could an expert scripter create a template rev stack  that would  
wikify all the existing revdocs in one fell swoop and send them to   
their appropriate places in the wiki/web structure (however that  
works for wikis, no idea here).   Just a question.  I'm sure it's  
not easy or someone would have done it.




I wouldn't call myself an expert scripter but
(1) I have already written an html 2 wiki translator for my own needs
(2) I have already written a rev application that let you edit wiki  
documents on the desktop:

http://projects.lexicall.org/portal/wikipad.php
(3) I have a start of a colorisation routine (to apply colorisation  
according to the wiki syntax).


That bit is the very easy part (one day of work) The reason I am  
trying to get a momentum is that the *difficult* bit is ensuring  
continuing contribution and maintenance (and no, I will not do all  
the work for you... I am ready to help set up a structure... but I am  
not signing for the role of documentation manager for the next 10  
years of my life).


For maximum members participation, we need to have a solid structure.

So, I continue trying to get it of the ground:

Somebody suggested we needed an appropriate domain name. I Fully  
agree. Easy enough. Most business packages let you host or park up to  
4 domain names (that's what mine do). Who would be ready to sponsor  
and buy the domain name (about $10)?


What do you suggest for the name?  The following names are  
available:  revdocs.co.uk, revdocs.org.uk, revdocs.ltd.uk,  
revdocs.plc.uk, revdocs.me.uk, revdocs.com, revdocs.net, revdocs.org,  
revdocs.info, revdocs.biz  (with xtalk, all interesting ones are  
registered).

If you have an opinion on this:
http://revolution.lexicall.org/wiki/tiki-take_survey.php?surveyId=3

Many providers nowadays give access to Fantastico. This means that  
any of the packages below can be installed at the click of a mouse.  
The pros and cons of each package can be evaluated at: opensourcecms.com/>  (a website that gives you the opportunity to  
"try out" some of the best php/mysql based free and open source  
software systems in the world). For my wiki, I use tikiwiki and I am  
very happy with it ). Wikipedia uses media wiki (http:// 
www.mediawiki.org/wiki/MediaWiki). If you have any experience with  
any of these and strongly recommend one for the purpose of hosting  
software documentation, give a shout.


More to the point: What are the features that you believe are really  
important to have in the revdocwiki?
You have an opinion, http://revolution.lexicall.org/wiki/tiki- 
take_survey.php?surveyId=3


  Content Management
  Drupal; Geeklog; Mambo Open Source; PHP-Nuke; phpWCMS;  
phpWebSite;

  Post-Nuke; Siteframe; Typo3; Xoops

  Wiki
  TikiWiki; PhpWiki

  Customer Relationship
  Crafty Syntax Live Help; Help Center Live; osTicket; PHP  
Support Tickets;

  Support Logic Helpdesk; Support Services Manager

  Discussion Boards
  phpBB2; SMF

  Blogs
  b2evolution; Nucleus; pMachine Free; WordPress

  Other Scripts
  Dew-NewPHPLinks; Moodle; Noahs Classifieds; Open-Realty;  
phpAdsNew;

  PHPauction; phpFormGenerator; WebCalendar

  Extras;
  Language Side menu appearance; Email notifications;  
Installations overview


Cheers,
Marielle

 


Marielle Lange (PhD),  Psycholinguist

Alternative emails: [EMAIL PROTECTED], [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Homepage
http://homepages.lexicall.org/mlange/

Easy access to lexical databaseshttp://lexicall.org
Supporting Education Technologists  http:// 
revolution.lexicall.org




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