Re: runrev 4.0 - kudos and a gripe
Why on earth would you want to spend time duplicating programs like WordPad or TextEdit? The place is swimming with Text Editors! And they get rather repetitive and boring after the first 258. :) This is similar to complaining that you cannot makes bricks with sand: get over it, the Egyptians did it with mud 6000 years ago - and its never been bettered! Admittedly the drop-shadows, while being 'sexy' could easily be run-up in GIMP or its commercial rival. The webby-thing, as far as I am concerned, is a quantum leap, and a new text field will just have to wait; after all we have reasonably respectable text fields already. you can make any kind of application in runrev is the usual commercial hype; however you can have a jolly good stab at it with Runtime Revolution with an extremely approachable interface. If Text-Editors really tickle your prawns I have a whole series of stacks 'lying around' on my hard drives dealing with all sorts of aspects of text importing, formatting, editing and exporting (frankly couldn't see much point in knitting them together for . . . another text editor) which I can bung together in a zip file and send them to you so you can curse my name forever as you try to assemble them into text editor Number 259. Shao Sean wrote: kudos - web plugin - server-side scripting (and maybe some day it will be released to the public) - photoshop-like effects while i did think that the real-time drop shadow and other Photoshop-like effects were nifty I do not see why they were added over a feature like a new text field.. during the webinar it was mentioned that you can make any kind of application in runrev but the fact that one can not even duplicate WordPad or TextEdit is kind of sad.. i do like the new logo though ^_^ -Sean ___ use-revolution mailing list use-revolution@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution ___ use-revolution mailing list use-revolution@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
Re: runrev 4.0 - kudos and a gripe
Hello, It is not the will to duplicate programs but to be able to have access to such basic features as paragraph level text formating. I don't know why it should be something so out of this world to add it. Drop shadows are thrown in and I don't think anybody wants to duplicate Photoshop. If I would have to vote for text field enhancement or drop shadow, the first one would be far more usefull to me. Take a look at: http://quality.runrev.com/qacenter/show_bug.cgi?id=2194 http://quality.runrev.com/qacenter/show_bug.cgi?id=4944 Best, ÉrIC Miclo Le 28 juin 09 à 10:32, Richmond Mathewson a écrit : Why on earth would you want to spend time duplicating programs like WordPad or TextEdit? The place is swimming with Text Editors! And they get rather repetitive and boring after the first 258. :) This is similar to complaining that you cannot makes bricks with sand: get over it, the Egyptians did it with mud 6000 years ago - and its never been bettered! Admittedly the drop-shadows, while being 'sexy' could easily be run- up in GIMP or its commercial rival. The webby-thing, as far as I am concerned, is a quantum leap, and a new text field will just have to wait; after all we have reasonably respectable text fields already. you can make any kind of application in runrev is the usual commercial hype; however you can have a jolly good stab at it with Runtime Revolution with an extremely approachable interface. If Text-Editors really tickle your prawns I have a whole series of stacks 'lying around' on my hard drives dealing with all sorts of aspects of text importing, formatting, editing and exporting (frankly couldn't see much point in knitting them together for . . . another text editor) which I can bung together in a zip file and send them to you so you can curse my name forever as you try to assemble them into text editor Number 259. Shao Sean wrote: kudos - web plugin - server-side scripting (and maybe some day it will be released to the public) - photoshop-like effects while i did think that the real-time drop shadow and other Photoshop-like effects were nifty I do not see why they were added over a feature like a new text field.. during the webinar it was mentioned that you can make any kind of application in runrev but the fact that one can not even duplicate WordPad or TextEdit is kind of sad.. i do like the new logo though ^_^ -Sean ___ use-revolution mailing list use-revolution@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution ___ use-revolution mailing list use-revolution@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution -- My NeXT computer will Be a Mac too! -- ___ use-revolution mailing list use-revolution@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
Re: runrev 4.0 - kudos and a gripe
It would be really nice to have better control of text. For instance if you are using a Mac they could write and extension to allow text control using ATSUI http://developer.apple.com/documentation/Carbon/COnceptual/ ATSUI_Concepts/atsui_chap1/atsui_intro.html The rev web stuff is what we needed too. They are both very visually orientated and have better control of text and how it is displayed improves your website or rev program. I vote for ATSUI control for Mac users. Are there any example codes for extensions that that use similar callbacks etc so we could add our own extension easier? I have only seen two examples of extensions and Rev provided them both. Any others out there? HyperCard had tons of code examples for externals. But I can do most things with the things Rev has already provided so I understand not seeing many examples. -=JB=- On Jun 28, 2009, at 1:32 AM, Richmond Mathewson wrote: Why on earth would you want to spend time duplicating programs like WordPad or TextEdit? The place is swimming with Text Editors! And they get rather repetitive and boring after the first 258. :) This is similar to complaining that you cannot makes bricks with sand: get over it, the Egyptians did it with mud 6000 years ago - and its never been bettered! Admittedly the drop-shadows, while being 'sexy' could easily be run- up in GIMP or its commercial rival. The webby-thing, as far as I am concerned, is a quantum leap, and a new text field will just have to wait; after all we have reasonably respectable text fields already. you can make any kind of application in runrev is the usual commercial hype; however you can have a jolly good stab at it with Runtime Revolution with an extremely approachable interface. If Text-Editors really tickle your prawns I have a whole series of stacks 'lying around' on my hard drives dealing with all sorts of aspects of text importing, formatting, editing and exporting (frankly couldn't see much point in knitting them together for . . . another text editor) which I can bung together in a zip file and send them to you so you can curse my name forever as you try to assemble them into text editor Number 259. Shao Sean wrote: kudos - web plugin - server-side scripting (and maybe some day it will be released to the public) - photoshop-like effects while i did think that the real-time drop shadow and other Photoshop-like effects were nifty I do not see why they were added over a feature like a new text field.. during the webinar it was mentioned that you can make any kind of application in runrev but the fact that one can not even duplicate WordPad or TextEdit is kind of sad.. i do like the new logo though ^_^ -Sean ___ use-revolution mailing list use-revolution@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution ___ use-revolution mailing list use-revolution@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution ___ use-revolution mailing list use-revolution@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
Re: runrev 4.0 - kudos and a gripe
Hi Sean, A few thoughts on your comments: 1) Drop shadows, etc., may not seem like much, but in an era where you have both Mac OS X and Vista/7 putting them around windows, etc., it's awfully nice -- more than nifty -- to be able to put glows around things programmatically because you can create a sense of depth and professionalism consistent with the OS. It will now be super-easy to have shadow and glows to enhance the user experience, for example with mouseovers, button hilites, and picking up objects that you are manipulating. And it's also useful for the revWeb plug-in content people will be creating, since the visual appeal is so important. It's a great workflow enhancement, too, because it obviates the need to create these effects in a separate drawing program. 2) These features are not added at the expense of a new field that has enhanced text formatting. I'm not going to say they were easy to add, but they are considerably more straightforward than reworking the field object. The field object, as you can imagine, is wired into everything. Adding something like set the dropShadow of graphic 1 to true is one thing; adding tab stop alignment is something altogether different, because there are lots of implications for the engine, the IDE, the language syntax, existing stacks, etc. We do have a plan for enhanced text formatting in fields and have been working toward that under the hood for a while now. It will come in time, and we want to do it right. 2.5) The data grid is not not a replacement for this feature, but it in the meantime it significantly enhances the data presentation abilities of Rev because it addresses many of the limitations that prevented people from using Rev for data-intensive solutions. 3) Critically important to the long-term success of Rev is having more people speak the language. Getting our Web story together in the cohesive way it's taking shape will enable us to do this. Although we may not be enabling people to recreate Word, we are empowering potentially millions of people to rediscover Web authoring and get things done because we offer a single language that can be used for the desktop, the server, and Web multimedia/tools across Mac, Windows, and Linux. No one else does that. No one. It is a unified and comprehensive platform that will allow Rev developers to create not just casual Web content (such as animations, simulations and games) but innovative new products, n-tier client/server apps, and hosted solutions, not to mention dramatically expanding their market and easing distribution. Adobe AIR and Microsoft Silverlight are struggling to get their Web-to-desktop story right; we already have that, and it's considerably easier and more accessible that their offerings. 4) The revServer technology will be available for installation on one's own hardware/hosting in the future. There will be a free version and a paid version. We are still working things out on that front, so I cannot be more specific. In the meantime, we have a very affordable option for the public to take advantage of these capabilities today, with their own domains, etc. And it's quite functional despite its pre-release status. Unlike other server technologies at this price range we have a very nice integrated authoring environment with a code editor, script manager, debugger, and variable watcher. It's leaps and bounds ahead of where we used to be with the old CGI engine, and I've seen some projects people have done that have just knocked my socks off. I might mention that the performance is absolutely phenomenal compared with PHP and alternatives. If on-Rev and revServer don't give you goose bumps, I don't know what will. 5) The visual effects are not the only new features in Rev 4.0. We didn't have time to get to this in the Webinar, but there will be a new externals interface which is very exciting because it will allow for exchange of binary data and arrays, as well as passing pointers so data doesn't have to be copied and externals operate much more quickly and efficiently. This opens up amazing new possibilities, including the potential for a third-party solution to your concerns. There is an in-depth session on this with our chief technology officer at the RunRevLive.09 conference. In short, Rev 4.0 (along with revServer) will be our most significant release ever. It comes as giant leap after two years of steady, step-by-step advances. I personally see it as the most exciting news since the availability of MetaCard as a cross-platform solution for xTalk. This is not to say a new field is unimportant, but hopefully this post explains that this is about much more than just a pretty new logo. - Bill Shao Sean shaos...@wehostmacs.com wrote in message news:0421bb33-d464-4cc3-872b-55c577ce8...@wehostmacs.com... kudos - web plugin - server-side scripting (and maybe some day it will be released to the public) -
Re: runrev 4.0 - kudos and a gripe
Figured the field object would take a lot of replacing and good to know it is being steadily worked on. While like others we'd love full text features, I'd like to make a point about the development direction which is a bit different. It's about using HTML and revBrowser for text markup. It is pretty clear that as we move more and more towards web applications, what we now see as a text field becomes more and more like an iFrame or piece of embedded xHTML. It is also clear that with the Rev web plugin, developers will be making web pages with html content areas and areas taken up by the plugin. What this means is that in terms of top level design we are thinking about a world in which html text areas (aka text fields) communicate with Rev widgets / plugins on a page. This is why I'd be more interested in getting the interoperability between the plugin and html areas fixed and maximizing the usage of revBrowser than simply adding features to the existing text field. We can get much of the formatting people want using revBrowser - we just need it to work really, really well so it feels just like a text field. This is also the reason why we need the ability to have the web plugin to talk to web page and vice-versa via JavaScript. That way we can design applications that use revBrowser for the desktop app and the plugin talking to the web page for the web site. That way we could / would be developing in a way which works with the tide of web apps - and if we were involved / aware of future plans regarding things like the text field could help steer it in the right sort of direction / while planning our products to take advantage of the features when they become available. 2009/6/28 Bill Marriott w...@wjm.org In short, Rev 4.0 (along with revServer) will be our most significant release ever. It comes as giant leap after two years of steady, step-by-step advances. I personally see it as the most exciting news since the availability of MetaCard as a cross-platform solution for xTalk. This is not to say a new field is unimportant, but hopefully this post explains that this is about much more than just a pretty new logo. What I'd like to see is much more marketing and development transparency. I'd like to see a Rev development world in which as a developer working on web / rev mashups I can easily find out what the future plans in this area are and have my input. I'd prefer not to find out that the Rev Web Plugin lack certain core features a few weeks before release, and I'd like to think that by suggesting and discussing them with the community this input would help RunRev ensure the new products are as good as they could be given the resources invested. I don't think it is helpful that the improve list is only open to enterprise customers like myself. That makes sense for support but not for suggestions for improvement, and I don't think it is helpful to not have discussed the plugin anywhere as far as I can tell, not even to those like myself that paid out for a pioneer license. It's a great and bold step that the new low end development environment is going to be free. Its great that we have a web plugin, and the combination looks capable of attracting many new developers. What I am arguing here for is to involve these new developers in shaping the future of the product, and not have the existing model of dialogue restricted to those on the improve list and an inclination to use bugzilla feature requests. While the coments above about JavaScript or devlopment transparency may seem a bit geeky to some - its not. We need to build and attract a community of both geeks, budding geeks and newbies. And many newbies will have come from a world in which they know more about HTML, JavaScript and open source projects than they know about Rev. We want them to feel that Rev fits into this existing world of theirs, and one real cheap way of doing this is by laying out a public development time line, and encouraging that discussion with a bit more of an open source / crowd sourcing style to the marketing. ___ use-revolution mailing list use-revolution@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
Re: runrev 4.0 - kudos and a gripe
Hi David, I'd prefer not to find out that the Rev Web Plugin lack certain core features a few weeks before release, and I'd like to think that by suggesting and discussing them with the community this input would help RunRev ensure the new products are as good as they could be given the resources invested. What is *not* going to be in the first version of the plug-in (e.g.: talking with JavaScript) is something that has only recently been decided, as we approach the betas and release. This is typical of the software development cycle; you cut features you don't think will make it as the ship date nears. I have to say that I find runrev quite open to input from members of the community. After all, my association with them began as a poster to the use-rev list. Most all of the development priorities over the last two years (beginning with Rev 2.8.1 and the free Rev 2.9 release) have been driven by communication with users -- either through reading the forums and lists, direct emails, multiple surveys, the Quality Control Center, online events, or conferences like last year's RunRevLive.08. (That's why having RunRevLive.09 in Edinburgh, where you can speak face-to-face with the entire engineering and management team, is such an advantage, and why we've put the effort into the Web Simulcast of this year's dev conference.) The company has grown a lot in this respect and I would suggest it's now superior in this regard compared to many other software publishers. It's not that we don't know what our users want, or it didn't occur to us that communication with JavaScript (or richer text fields) was a desireable capability. It's that we have a long list of things we want to do and have to choose carefully what comes first. Based on the overwhelmingly enthusiastic response to the plugin, I think we've demonstrated it will be quite exciting and usable and worthwhile even without this capability in the first release. - Bill ___ use-revolution mailing list use-revolution@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
Re: runrev 4.0 - kudos and a gripe
Éric Miclo wrote: Hello, It is not the will to duplicate programs but to be able to have access to such basic features as paragraph level text formating. Now THAT does make a lot of sense. I don't know why it should be something so out of this world to add it. An old chestnut that has been chewed over before . . . Drop shadows are thrown in and I don't think anybody wants to duplicate Photoshop. If I would have to vote for text field enhancement or drop shadow, the first one would be far more usefull to me. Take a look at: http://quality.runrev.com/qacenter/show_bug.cgi?id=2194 http://quality.runrev.com/qacenter/show_bug.cgi?id=4944 Best, ÉrIC Miclo Le 28 juin 09 à 10:32, Richmond Mathewson a écrit : Why on earth would you want to spend time duplicating programs like WordPad or TextEdit? The place is swimming with Text Editors! And they get rather repetitive and boring after the first 258. :) This is similar to complaining that you cannot makes bricks with sand: get over it, the Egyptians did it with mud 6000 years ago - and its never been bettered! Admittedly the drop-shadows, while being 'sexy' could easily be run-up in GIMP or its commercial rival. The webby-thing, as far as I am concerned, is a quantum leap, and a new text field will just have to wait; after all we have reasonably respectable text fields already. you can make any kind of application in runrev is the usual commercial hype; however you can have a jolly good stab at it with Runtime Revolution with an extremely approachable interface. If Text-Editors really tickle your prawns I have a whole series of stacks 'lying around' on my hard drives dealing with all sorts of aspects of text importing, formatting, editing and exporting (frankly couldn't see much point in knitting them together for . . . another text editor) which I can bung together in a zip file and send them to you so you can curse my name forever as you try to assemble them into text editor Number 259. Shao Sean wrote: kudos - web plugin - server-side scripting (and maybe some day it will be released to the public) - photoshop-like effects while i did think that the real-time drop shadow and other Photoshop-like effects were nifty I do not see why they were added over a feature like a new text field.. during the webinar it was mentioned that you can make any kind of application in runrev but the fact that one can not even duplicate WordPad or TextEdit is kind of sad.. i do like the new logo though ^_^ -Sean ___ use-revolution mailing list use-revolution@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution ___ use-revolution mailing list use-revolution@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution -- My NeXT computer will Be a Mac too! -- ___ use-revolution mailing list use-revolution@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution ___ use-revolution mailing list use-revolution@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
Re: runrev 4.0 - kudos and a gripe
2009/6/28 Bill Marriott w...@wjm.org What is *not* going to be in the first version of the plug-in (e.g.: talking with JavaScript) is something that has only recently been decided, as we approach the betas and release. This is typical of the software development cycle; you cut features you don't think will make it as the ship date nears. Where was the discussion - did I miss it? Do you have a url I can refer to? My experience was that I was unable to find out any information regarding the plugin on either the use or improve lists, over the last 9 months. Even after booking a ticket to the conference, largely in order to find out about the plugin and it's features I was not able to discuss these features with anyone, there was no forum, email list and I was not asked any questions / sent any surveys. There *was* an email link on the Pioneer web site, where you could post questions - I emailed pion...@runrev.com twice with questions and received no reply. I forwarded these emails to Heather, but still no reply to the questions regarding the plugin. The company has grown a lot in this respect and I would suggest it's now superior in this regard compared to many other software publishers. It's not that we don't know what our users want, or it didn't occur to us that communication with JavaScript (or richer text fields) was a desireable capability. It's that we have a long list of things we want to do and have to choose carefully what comes first. Based on the overwhelmingly enthusiastic response to the plugin, I think we've demonstrated it will be quite exciting and usable and worthwhile even without this capability in the first release. I agree - I'm looking forward to it as well. My comments are focussed on the lack of openess and sense of participation in this process. This has closed down considerably since MetaCard days, and in the mean time many other companies have moved closer to a open development models with early and open beta testing etc. With new developers familiar with this sort of development process coming on board after the launch, I think we'd all benefit by ramping up that sort of open discussion and interaction? ___ use-revolution mailing list use-revolution@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
