Re: Revolution and fonts
On Thursday, August 28, 2003, at 05:53 PM, Alex Rice wrote: On Rev 2.1 on Windows, putting "0" for the textFont property in the inspector causes it to ignore the textSize property- it will revert to 10 or 11 pt. On OS X with Rev 2.1 a "0" textFont with a textSize properties behaves as expected: the system font of the specified size. I think a similar bug concerning size and font had been reported and it turned out to be a feature. You might want to look for that. Memory fading... Dar Scott ___ use-revolution mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
Re: Revolution and fonts
On Tuesday, August 19, 2003, at 04:30 PM, Richard Gaskin wrote: And on most systems, merely setting the textfont to any invalif font name (I tend to ue "0") will force it to use the default system font, so really the only platform-specific setting is the textSize. On Monday, August 25, 2003, at 12:10 AM, Alex Rice wrote: I was experimenting with this and one must actually put "0" for the font name, not empty, otherwise the font name will revert and fill itself in with the default font name "Lucida Grande" on my Mac. This only happens if one changes the font size as well. Is this a bug? Another possible bug: On Rev 2.1 on Windows, putting "0" for the textFont property in the inspector causes it to ignore the textSize property- it will revert to 10 or 11 pt. On OS X with Rev 2.1 a "0" textFont with a textSize properties behaves as expected: the system font of the specified size. Should I bugzilla either or both of these? If both of these bugs exist, then, what's the best way to maintain the system font xplatform, while also maintaining control over the textSize? Alex Rice, Software Developer Architectural Research Consultants, Inc. http://ARCplanning.com ___ use-revolution mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
Re: Revolution and fonts
On Tuesday, August 19, 2003, at 04:30 PM, Richard Gaskin wrote: Fortunately it's also the easiest solution: you only need to set two properties in your mainstack, and you know the fonts are available. ;) And on most systems, merely setting the textfont to any invalif font name (I tend to ue "0") will force it to use the default system font, so really the only platform-specific setting is the textSize. I was experimenting with this and one must actually put "0" for the font name, not empty, otherwise the font name will revert and fill itself in with the default font name "Lucida Grande" on my Mac. This only happens if one changes the font size as well. Is this a bug? Alex Rice, Software Developer Architectural Research Consultants, Inc. http://ARCplanning.com ___ use-revolution mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
Re: Revolution and fonts
Dar Scott wrote: > I was picturing that three buttons in a column (assuming that is > allowed in both platforms) might be required to be different on two > platforms: > > Platform 1. All buttons in a column must be the same width, a multiple > of 10 pixels in width and greater than 25% larger than the text > content. However, if any button is not related to the other the > interbutton spacing must be at least 4 pixels greater and the size must > be at least 10 pixels different. > > Platform 2. All buttons (in a column or not) must be exactly 42 pixels > wider than the width of the text. > > See? I need to read those HIGs. My fears are getting the best of me. > > I have heard something on this list or related list that the "done" > button goes in different places on different platforms. I assume that > can be handled with profiles or a tiny bit of scripting. Profiles can work to some degree, but I prefer to script resize stuff by hand so I can control the execution order, useful for objects placed relative distances from one another. It doesn't take long, you only do it once, and it always works exactly as you want it to. But your fears are shared by all who make multi-platform apps, regardless of dev tool or language. Layout issues that specific are the motivation behind the Universal GUI. Unless the OS vendor publishes research data supporting a specific layout, I'd blow it off. There's enough general information published about how the eye scans a page that we can all feel fairly confident about placing the confirmation button in a dialog in the lower-right. As for exact spacing between controls I tend to favor Aqua over the others because Mac reviewers are pickier aout such things, and very few developers on other OSes seem to care at all. But there's a good argument to be made that since Win holds so much of the market we might favor their spec. As soon as enough Win-only developers demontrate an interest in reading their platform's HIG with any consistency I might concur. But until then, my message for OS vendors pushing this level of minutiae at us remains the same: "Put up or shut up; you either have the research or you have merely an opinion." ;) -- Richard Gaskin Fourth World Media Corporation Developer of WebMerge: Publish any database on any Web site ___ [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.FourthWorld.com Tel: 323-225-3717 AIM: FourthWorldInc ___ use-revolution mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
Re: Revolution and fonts
On Tuesday, August 19, 2003, at 04:04 PM, Richard Gaskin wrote: Why would using any font necessarily require profiles or other complex scripting? My ignorance is showing. I was imagining a battery of buttons being the same length on one and fixed padded on another. I'm having difficulty imagining this. Why wouldn't the textAlign property cover that? Ah, that's because you don't realize how wild my imagination might be when I'm ignorant. I was picturing that three buttons in a column (assuming that is allowed in both platforms) might be required to be different on two platforms: Platform 1. All buttons in a column must be the same width, a multiple of 10 pixels in width and greater than 25% larger than the text content. However, if any button is not related to the other the interbutton spacing must be at least 4 pixels greater and the size must be at least 10 pixels different. Platform 2. All buttons (in a column or not) must be exactly 42 pixels wider than the width of the text. See? I need to read those HIGs. My fears are getting the best of me. I have heard something on this list or related list that the "done" button goes in different places on different platforms. I assume that can be handled with profiles or a tiny bit of scripting. (Oh, yeah. When I'm in a hurry, I don't set textAlign right or at least not in the most robust way. Thanks for the reminder.) Dar Scott ___ use-revolution mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
Re: Revolution and fonts
Alex Rice wrote: > Here is what Constantine and Lockwood say about HIG and platform > standards: > """ > Unfortunately, the field of standards and style guides is riddled with > potholes and pitfalls. Industry standards are often ignored, even by > the very software companies that developed them and that call for > others to adhere to them. LOL -- my favorite example is the Large Fonts setting in XP: while the Win HIG tells you all the silly hoops you should be jumping through to support customizable font settings, the very control panel where these are set ignores them. ;) While I'm no fan of sheep-like adherence to the HIGs we all agree on the core principles, and one of those is consistency. While I'd like to think my app is the only thing the user bought her machine for, in practice most things we write will comprise a relatively small part of a larger computing workflow. The more apps have similar appearances, layout, and behavior, the easier it is for users to move between apps seamlessly. With text being such a central element in communication with the user (undecipherable icons in toolbar fetishisms notwithstanding) it seems reasonable to at least adhere to the default font settings for each platform. Fortunately it's also the easiest solution: you only need to set two properties in your mainstack, and you know the fonts are available. ;) And on most systems, merely setting the textfont to any invalif font name (I tend to ue "0") will force it to use the default system font, so really the only platform-specific setting is the textSize. -- Richard Gaskin Fourth World Media Corporation Developer of WebMerge: Publish any database on any Web site ___ [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.FourthWorld.com Tel: 323-225-3717 AIM: FourthWorldInc ___ use-revolution mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
Re: Revolution and fonts
Dar Scott wrote: >> Why would using any font necessarily require profiles or other complex >> scripting? > > My ignorance is showing. I was imagining a battery of buttons being > the same length on one and fixed padded on another. I'm having difficulty imagining this. Why wouldn't the textAlign property cover that? -- Richard Gaskin Fourth World Media Corporation Developer of WebMerge: Publish any database on any Web site ___ [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.FourthWorld.com Tel: 323-225-3717 AIM: FourthWorldInc ___ use-revolution mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
Re: Revolution and fonts
On Tuesday, August 19, 2003, at 03:46 PM, Alex Rice wrote: - Use the "over-40" 1 meter squint test to make sure your fonts are not too small I'm available! I'm over 40 and I have lots of practice squinting! Dar ___ use-revolution mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
Re: Revolution and fonts
On Tuesday, August 19, 2003, at 03:17 PM, Richard Gaskin wrote: Why would using any font necessarily require profiles or other complex scripting? My ignorance is showing. I was imagining a battery of buttons being the same length on one and fixed padded on another. I have one app in which I use a fixed width font for a terminal-like window; maybe I can use trial and error or Alex's method to find one. I have no idea how labels are supposed to line up with what they label. I better shut up and go read your HIG documents. Dar Scott ___ use-revolution mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
Re: Revolution and fonts
On Sunday, August 17, 2003, at 10:05 PM, Richard Gaskin wrote: While the lively discussion here is valuable, these issues only affect a relatively small subset of apps as most simply follow the HIG for each platform. Even following the HIG for each platform will involve profiles or scripting or both to adjust to the platform. Even then, I would think most apps have some part that does not apply. To my shame, I have ignored HIG. My Windows book is boxed up and probably only applies to 3.1. Any good online references to HIG for Windows, OS X, Mac OS? Is there such a thing for Linux? (I have no idea whether Linux folks would offended if I suggested there would not be one or offended if I suggested there might be one.) Dar Scott ___ use-revolution mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
Re: Revolution and fonts
Charles Szasz wrote: > I am new to Revolution. I have tried REALbasic but it has been > difficult to learn. After seeing the thread regarding using fonts for > Mac and Windows, can you just code system font in your code or font so > each platform uses the system font for that platform? In REALbasic you > can specify system font in your project. You can do this in Revolution as well: just don't set a font for anu objects other than your mainstack and all other objects will inherit it. While the lively discussion here is valuable, these issues only affect a relatively small subset of apps as most simply follow the HIG for each platform. -- Richard Gaskin Fourth World Media Corporation Developer of WebMerge: Publish any database on any Web site ___ [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.FourthWorld.com Tel: 323-225-3717 AIM: FourthWorldInc ___ use-revolution mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
Revolution and fonts
I am new to Revolution. I have tried REALbasic but it has been difficult to learn. After seeing the thread regarding using fonts for Mac and Windows, can you just code system font in your code or font so each platform uses the system font for that platform? In REALbasic you can specify system font in your project. Charles ___ use-revolution mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
