Re: Search Rev docs "at the speed of thought"

[Jonathan Cooper]

On Tuesday, March 22, 2005, at 09:56  PM, Wilhelm Sanke wrote:
Sorry that you have troubles, which however seems to be normal with 
new creations, but is not an excuse for oversights.
The stack works here - and apparently elsewhere as it should - both on 
Windows and MacOS.

Which version of Revolution do you use? You would need 2.5.1 with the 
latest version of the XML Help files.
Could it be that you opened "searchdocs" directly - i.e. not via the 
Rev MenuBar or Message Box - and possibly a different version of 
Revolution was started?
Ah ha!
At the end of my very first message, I wrote:
Rev 2.1.2, Mac OSX 10.2.8
... but this is the first I heard of the requirement for Rev 2.5.1.
Mystery solved.
Regards,
Jonathan
--
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Manager of Information / WWW
Art Gallery of New South Wales
http://www.artgallery.nsw.gov.au/staff/jcooper
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Re: Search Rev docs "at the speed of thought"

[Wilhelm Sanke]

On Mon, 21 Mar 2005, Jonathan Cooper <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>  wrote:
Still no good.:-( I already had the stack in the same folder as 
"Revolution.app", but I thought, maybe it needs to be actually INSIDE 
the bundle (strange, but I thought ... why not? ... worth a try), so I 
moved it to the folder "...Revolution[.app]/Contents/MacOS/" but still 
no good. It starts off with stuff in the left-hand field (as though I 
have just searched for the string "behavior") but, no matter what I 
search for, I only get results in the right-hand field. Regards, 
Jonathan On Sunday, March 20, 2005, at 05:03 AM, Thomas McGrath III wrote:

-- Jonathan Cooper Manager of Information / WWW Art Gallery of New 
South Wales http://www.artgallery.nsw.gov.au/staff/jcooper

Jonathan,
Sorry that you have troubles, which however seems to be normal with new 
creations, but is not an excuse for oversights.
The stack works here - and apparently elsewhere as it should - both on 
Windows and MacOS.

Which version of Revolution do you use? You would need 2.5.1 with the 
latest version of the XML Help files.
Could it be that you opened "searchdocs" directly - i.e. not via the Rev 
MenuBar or Message Box - and possibly a different version of Revolution 
was started?

Anyway, an update 2.1 is available now from  
.

Changes in the update:
- New "copy" feature: Text can be selected in the fields on the right 
and left using the mouse and the usual copy-and-paste procedures from 
the Menubar or through keyboard shortcuts can be applied

- "SearchDocs XML 2.1" can now be placed either in the main Revolution 
or Metacard folder (where the engine is) or in the "plugins" folder of 
Rev or the MC IDE; The stack will detect where it has been placed and 
set the directory paths for the search accordingly.-

- Simplified searchstring input and the extra option to search all of 
the XML files of the "Dictionary", "Faq", and "Topics" in one run.

and  "J. Landman Gay" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
If you are getting results in the right-side field then the location of
the stack on disk is probably fine.
-- Jacqueline Landman Gay | [EMAIL PROTECTED] HyperActive 
Software | http://www.hyperactivesw.com

That may not be sufficient proof as the search is carried out by 
searching the *pure-text* versions of the XML-Help files that are stored 
as arrays inside the stack. This arrangement contributes to the fast 
search speed of between 50 to 200 milliseconds.

I have got another "basic" version of the search stack that extracts the 
"pure text" of the XML files *during* the search; the search time needed 
for this solution is still tolerable, about 750 milliseconds to two 
seconds for each search depending on  platform, IDE (Rev is slower than 
the Metacard IDE), and speed of the computer.
However, for some reason, the very first search (after starting the 
computer and launching Revolution or MC) and only this first search with 
this "basic" stack needs about  three seconds with Metacard and up to 
seven with Rev. After the first search the search speed is back to 
normal , 750 milliseconds to two seconds.

I  sent a post about this "anomaly" to the improvement list, but so far 
nobody came up with an explanation.

Regards to you all,
Wilhelm Sanke

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Re: Search Rev docs "at the speed of thought"

[J. Landman Gay]

On Mar 21, 2005, at 7:37 AM, Jonathan Cooper wrote:
Still no good.:-(
I already had the stack in the same folder as "Revolution.app", but I 
thought, maybe it needs to be actually INSIDE the bundle (strange, but 
I thought ... why not? ... worth a try), so I moved it to the folder 
"...Revolution[.app]/Contents/MacOS/" but still no good.

It starts off with stuff in the left-hand field (as though I have just 
searched for the string "behavior") but, no matter what I search for, 
I only get results in the right-hand field.
Right, that's how it works. The stack was apparently saved with the 
"behavior" search in the fields, so that is why you see it there.

Wilhelm has opted to put the found results on the right and the specific 
content on the left, which may be the reverse of what you are used to (I 
didn't expect it either.) Do a search, the results show up on the right 
side. Click on any link on the right-hand field and the content will 
display on the left.

If you are getting results in the right-side field then the location of 
the stack on disk is probably fine.

--
Jacqueline Landman Gay | [EMAIL PROTECTED]
HyperActive Software   | http://www.hyperactivesw.com
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Re: Search Rev docs "at the speed of thought"

[Thomas McGrath III]

I downloaded it and double clicked it. it showed up like you describe. 
I moved it into the app folder with rev in it and it now works.
Are you sure the one you are using is in the same folder???

On Mar 21, 2005, at 7:37 AM, Jonathan Cooper wrote:
Still no good.:-(
I already had the stack in the same folder as "Revolution.app", but I 
thought, maybe it needs to be actually INSIDE the bundle (strange, but 
I thought ... why not? ... worth a try), so I moved it to the folder 
"...Revolution[.app]/Contents/MacOS/" but still no good.

It starts off with stuff in the left-hand field (as though I have just 
searched for the string "behavior") but, no matter what I search for, 
I only get results in the right-hand field.

Regards,
Jonathan
Thomas J. McGrath III
SCS
1000 Killarney Dr.
Pittsburgh, PA 15234
412-885-8541
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Re: Search Rev docs "at the speed of thought"

[Jonathan Cooper]

Still no good.:-(
I already had the stack in the same folder as "Revolution.app", but I 
thought, maybe it needs to be actually INSIDE the bundle (strange, but 
I thought ... why not? ... worth a try), so I moved it to the folder 
"...Revolution[.app]/Contents/MacOS/" but still no good.

It starts off with stuff in the left-hand field (as though I have just 
searched for the string "behavior") but, no matter what I search for, I 
only get results in the right-hand field.

Regards,
Jonathan
On Sunday, March 20, 2005, at 05:03  AM, Thomas McGrath III wrote:
Drop the stack into the same folder as your Rev engine. It will work 
then

Tom
On Mar 19, 2005, at 8:27 AM, Jonathan Cooper wrote:
Hi Wilhelm,
Looks like an impressively useful stack, but it doesn't quite work as 
described, for me.
I get the results displayed in the field on the right. 
However,clicking on a file link produces nothing in the left field 
(except the word "Description", in bold).
Rev 2.1.2, Mac OSX 10.2.8
--
Jonathan Cooper
Manager of Information / WWW
Art Gallery of New South Wales
http://www.artgallery.nsw.gov.au/staff/jcooper
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Re: Search Rev docs "at the speed of thought" Bad Language alert!

[Pat Trendler]

Just looked at your new screenshot - absolutely bleeding fabulous!
All manual style ebooks should have a search function like this.
It just gets better and better.
Could we be able to select and copy please?
Pat
And the new version - available during the next days - can be placed 
either into the main Revolution or Metacard folder (where the engine is) 
or into the "plugins" folder of Rev or the MC IDE; "SearchDocs XML 2" 
will detect where it has been placed and set the directory paths for the 
search accordingly.-

Another change is a simplified search input and the extra option to 
search all of the XML files of the "Dictionary", "Faq", and "Topics" in 
one run. Searching these combined 1992 files will slightly increase the 
average search time to about 160 milliseconds  (WindowsXP, 2 GHz), which 
should be still very much tolerable.

There is a new screenshot at 
.

Regards,
Wilhelm
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Re: Search Rev docs "at the speed of thought"

[Wilhelm Sanke]

On Sun, 20 Mar 2005, Jonathan Cooper <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
Hi Wilhelm,
Looks like an impressively useful stack, but it doesn't quite work as
described, for me.
I get the results displayed in the field on the right. However,clicking
on a file link produces nothing in the left field (except the word
"Description", in bold).
Rev 2.1.2, Mac OSX 10.2.8
Regards,
Jonathan

Hi Jonathan,
As Thomas McGrath III <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> has already mentioned, 
"Drop the stack into the same folder as your Rev engine. It will work 
then ".

And the new version - available during the next days - can be placed 
either into the main Revolution or Metacard folder (where the engine is) 
or into the "plugins" folder of Rev or the MC IDE; "SearchDocs XML 2" 
will detect where it has been placed and set the directory paths for the 
search accordingly.-

Another change is a simplified search input and the extra option to 
search all of the XML files of the "Dictionary", "Faq", and "Topics" in 
one run. Searching these combined 1992 files will slightly increase the 
average search time to about 160 milliseconds  (WindowsXP, 2 GHz), which 
should be still very much tolerable.

There is a new screenshot at 
.

Regards,
Wilhelm
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Re: Search Rev docs "at the speed of thought"

[Thomas McGrath III]

Drop the stack into the same folder as your Rev engine. It will work 
then

Tom
On Mar 19, 2005, at 8:27 AM, Jonathan Cooper wrote:
Hi Wilhelm,
Looks like an impressively useful stack, but it doesn't quite work as 
described, for me.
I get the results displayed in the field on the right. 
However,clicking on a file link produces nothing in the left field 
(except the word "Description", in bold).
Rev 2.1.2, Mac OSX 10.2.8

Regards,
Jonathan
Thomas J. McGrath III
SCS
1000 Killarney Dr.
Pittsburgh, PA 15234
412-885-8541
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Re: Search Rev docs "at the speed of thought"

[Jonathan Cooper]

Hi Wilhelm,
Looks like an impressively useful stack, but it doesn't quite work as 
described, for me.
I get the results displayed in the field on the right. However,clicking 
on a file link produces nothing in the left field (except the word 
"Description", in bold).
Rev 2.1.2, Mac OSX 10.2.8

Regards,
Jonathan
On Thursday, March 17, 2005, at 11:16  AM, Wilhelm Sanke wrote:
As announced two weeks ago, the alternative search stacks for the XML 
files of the Rev Documentation (version 2.5.1) are now available for a 
first inspection.

[snip]
The "Dictionary"-, "Faq"-, "Topics"- and "Glossary"-folders of the 
Revolution "Help" directory can be searched. The results are displayed 
in the field on the right with the searchstring colored and the 
XML-file addresses inserted as links. Clicking on such a file link 
displays the complete article in the left field - again with the 
searchstring colored. If the article itself contains links these are 
again displayed for further reference.

--
Jonathan Cooper
Manager of Information / WWW
Art Gallery of New South Wales
http://www.artgallery.nsw.gov.au/staff/jcooper
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Re: Search Rev docs "at the speed of thought"

[J. Landman Gay]

On 3/18/05 5:23 PM, Wilhelm Sanke wrote:
Thanks for the feedback.
I am going to work on that and probably will be able to present a first 
improvement by the end of next week.
Oh well, in *that* case, make it so we can put it in our plugins folder 
too. Then I can open it easily. ;)

--
Jacqueline Landman Gay | [EMAIL PROTECTED]
HyperActive Software   | http://www.hyperactivesw.com
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Re: Search Rev docs "at the speed of thought"

[Wilhelm Sanke]

Mark Swindell <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Very cool.  What I'd like when searching is to return ALL instances of
> the search in ALL categories at once... not have to predefine where I
> want to search before the fact.  Not doing so  presupposes knowledge
> that doesn't necessarily exist.  Also, there is an extra step by
> invoking the search dialog... a visible field with the search would be
> more intuitive than chosing a category and filling in a dialog.  Still,
> a great, usable, useful stack.  Thanks.
> Mark
and "Pat Trendler" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> added:
> Exactly my thoughts as well.
>
> Pat
> [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Thanks for the feedback.
I am going to work on that and probably will be able to present a first 
improvement by the end of next week.

Best regards,
Wilhelm
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Re: Search Rev docs "at the speed of thought"

[Pat Trendler]

On Friday, March 18, 2005 2:42 PM Mark Swindell  wrote:
snip
Very cool.  What I'd like when searching is to return ALL instances of 
the search in ALL categories at once... not have to predefine where I 
want to search before the fact.  
and
Still, a great, usable, useful stack.  Thanks.
Exactly my thoughts as well.
Pat
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
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Re: Search Rev docs "at the speed of thought"

[Mark Swindell]

Very cool.  What I'd like when searching is to return ALL instances of 
the search in ALL categories at once... not have to predefine where I 
want to search before the fact.  Not doing so  presupposes knowledge 
that doesn't necessarily exist.  Also, there is an extra step by 
invoking the search dialog... a visible field with the search would be 
more intuitive than chosing a category and filling in a dialog.  Still, 
a great, usable, useful stack.  Thanks.
Mark

On Mar 16, 2005, at 4:16 PM, Wilhelm Sanke wrote:
That depends of course on the permeability of your synapses and the 
quality of the thought. In many cases the applied search routines will 
be faster.

As announced two weeks ago, the alternative search stacks for the XML 
files of the Rev Documentation (version 2.5.1) are now available for a 
first inspection.

Average search-and-display-time with the "SearchDocs XML" stacks is 
less than 100 milliseconds (e.g. for the total 1496 files of the 
"Dictionary") on a WindowsXP computer with 2 GHz and somewhat more - 
but still below 200 milliseconds - on a Mac G4 with 667 MHz.

Download the Revolution and Metacard search stacks from 
.

Any searchstring can be used, single words or a sequence of words 
(like "move the insertion point"), which is not possible with the 
filter and search routines of the Rev Documentation.

The "Dictionary"-, "Faq"-, "Topics"- and "Glossary"-folders of the 
Revolution "Help" directory can be searched. The results are displayed 
in the field on the right with the searchstring colored and the 
XML-file addresses inserted as links. Clicking on such a file link 
displays the complete article in the left field - again with the 
searchstring colored. If the article itself contains links these are 
again displayed for further reference.

The parsing routines for the XML files include sections developed and 
designed by Richard Gaskin in his "MCTranscript Dictionary", which is 
also intended to bring the richness of the Revolution  Transcript 
dictionary to Metacard aficionados.

Metacard user need to copy the Revolution Help folder into their main 
folder of the MC IDE. For cosmetic reasons - to be able to display 
some of the inserted Rev icons - one should also copy stack 
"revicons.rev" into the Metacard folder.

Revolution users must place their version of "SearchDocs XML.rev" in 
the same folder with "Revolution.exe" (Revolution.app in MacOS) to 
work properly.

Regards,
Wilhelm Sanke


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Re: Search Rev docs "at the speed of thought"

[Klaus Major]

Hi Wilhelm,
Klaus Major <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
Hello Wilhelm,
(snip)
thanks, very good work!
But after opening your stack, the cursor stucks to "busy", any hints 
on
how to remove this?
Hello Klaus,
I do not see this here in the four situations possible for me: Rev and 
Metacard IDE on WindowsXP and MacOS 10.3.7.
What combination are you using?-
OS X and Rev, but after i quit and restarted Rev that phenomenon was 
gone...

Regards
Klaus Major
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
http://www.major-k.de
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Re: Search Rev docs "at the speed of thought"

[Wilhelm Sanke]

Klaus Major <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
Hello Wilhelm,
(snip)
thanks, very good work!
But after opening your stack, the cursor stucks to "busy", any hints on
how to remove this?

Hello Klaus,
I do not see this here in the four situations possible for me: Rev and 
Metacard IDE on WindowsXP and MacOS 10.3.7.
What combination are you using?-

I found that function "revappversion()", which I use in the stacks to 
distinguish between Rev and MC IDE, need the latest version of the 
Metacard IDE. Should somebody wish to use the search stack with earlier 
versions of the MC IDE I could supply a version without "revappversion()".

While experimenting with the search stacks I observed that there are 
quite a number of "loose ends" in the XML files, missing closing tags 
and incomplete or wrong crossreferences between files in the "
The corresponding name of the XML file however has been shortened - like 
so many others in the Faq folder - to "te_a_standalone_application.xml".

- "reference/operator_precedence_referen .rev", a link in "Topics", has 
one space to many before ".rev"

- a typo in a file name: "scripts_and_thier_structure.xml"
- a folder "about" that does not exist: 
"about/About_Revolution_system_requirements.xml"

Should such things be brought to attention via Bugzilla?
The responsible member of the Rev team should design a search routine to 
find all such loose ends.-

I see that after the announcement of my search stacks about 300 persons 
have visited my website and also downloaded stacks. Feedback and 
suggestions are welcome.

--Wilhelm Sanke

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Re: Search Rev docs "at the speed of thought"

[J. Landman Gay]

On 3/16/05 6:16 PM, Wilhelm Sanke wrote:

As announced two weeks ago, the alternative search stacks for the XML 
files of the Rev Documentation (version 2.5.1) are now available for a 
first inspection.

Wilhelm, this is quite amazing. Very nice!
I see that a symlink to the Rev Help folder works just as well as 
copying the whole folder to the MC installation. No need to duplicate 
all those megs. :)

The only thing I found that you might want to look at is that when 
searching the FAQ documents, the first letter of each result is cut off 
in the right-side list. Other than that, it seems to work just great. 
This will be very useful, thanks for creating it.

--
Jacqueline Landman Gay | [EMAIL PROTECTED]
HyperActive Software   | http://www.hyperactivesw.com
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Re: Search Rev docs "at the speed of thought"

[Klaus Major]

Hello Wilhelm,
That depends of course on the permeability of your synapses and the 
quality of the thought.
In many cases the applied search routines will be faster.
...
Metacard user need to copy the Revolution Help folder into their main 
folder of the MC IDE.
For cosmetic reasons - to be able to display some of the inserted Rev 
icons - one should also
copy stack "revicons.rev" into the Metacard folder.

Revolution users must place their version of "SearchDocs XML.rev" in 
the same folder with
"Revolution.exe" (Revolution.app in MacOS) to work properly.
thanks, very good work!
But after opening your stack, the cursor stucks to "busy", any hints on 
how to remove this?

Regards,
Wilhelm Sanke

Regards
Klaus Major
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
http://www.major-k.de
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Search Rev docs "at the speed of thought"

[Wilhelm Sanke]

That depends of course on the permeability of your synapses and the 
quality of the thought. In many cases the applied search routines will 
be faster.

As announced two weeks ago, the alternative search stacks for the XML 
files of the Rev Documentation (version 2.5.1) are now available for a 
first inspection.

Average search-and-display-time with the "SearchDocs XML" stacks is less 
than 100 milliseconds (e.g. for the total 1496 files of the 
"Dictionary") on a WindowsXP computer with 2 GHz and somewhat more - but 
still below 200 milliseconds - on a Mac G4 with 667 MHz.

Download the Revolution and Metacard search stacks from 
.

Any searchstring can be used, single words or a sequence of words (like 
"move the insertion point"), which is not possible with the filter and 
search routines of the Rev Documentation.

The "Dictionary"-, "Faq"-, "Topics"- and "Glossary"-folders of the 
Revolution "Help" directory can be searched. The results are displayed 
in the field on the right with the searchstring colored and the XML-file 
addresses inserted as links. Clicking on such a file link displays the 
complete article in the left field - again with the searchstring 
colored. If the article itself contains links these are again displayed 
for further reference.

The parsing routines for the XML files include sections developed and 
designed by Richard Gaskin in his "MCTranscript Dictionary", which is 
also intended to bring the richness of the Revolution  Transcript 
dictionary to Metacard aficionados.

Metacard user need to copy the Revolution Help folder into their main 
folder of the MC IDE. For cosmetic reasons - to be able to display some 
of the inserted Rev icons - one should also copy stack "revicons.rev" 
into the Metacard folder.

Revolution users must place their version of "SearchDocs XML.rev" in the 
same folder with "Revolution.exe" (Revolution.app in MacOS) to work 
properly.

Regards,
Wilhelm Sanke


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