Re: Turn Off Double-Entry?
Richard Gaskin wrote: J. Landman Gay wrote: Scott Rossi wrote: I don't suppose there's any way to turn off or otherwise disable the double-entry key sequence to close the script editor? ... You can use option-enter (on Windows, alt-enter) to save and close the editor. In my script editor I use Shift-Enter, because it's a larger key and there's one on both sides of the keyboard. Is there a way to change this in Rev, or are PowerBook users required to use two hands? (There's no Option key on the right side near the Enter and Return keys on a PB keyboard) It's moot, as it turns out; the shortcut no longer works anyway. :( -- Jacqueline Landman Gay | [EMAIL PROTECTED] HyperActive Software | http://www.hyperactivesw.com ___ use-revolution mailing list use-revolution@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
Re: Turn Off Double-Entry?
J. Landman Gay wrote: Scott Rossi wrote: I don't suppose there's any way to turn off or otherwise disable the double-entry key sequence to close the script editor? ... You can use option-enter (on Windows, alt-enter) to save and close the editor. In my script editor I use Shift-Enter, because it's a larger key and there's one on both sides of the keyboard. Is there a way to change this in Rev, or are PowerBook users required to use two hands? (There's no Option key on the right side near the Enter and Return keys on a PB keyboard) -- Richard Gaskin Fourth World Media Corporation ___ [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.FourthWorld.com ___ use-revolution mailing list use-revolution@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
Re: Turn Off Double-Entry?
Recently, Dave Cragg wrote: > I'm > probably on your side on this one, but sometimes there is an > advantage to the double-entry feature. I've got one of those sleek > Apple edgeless keyboards, and I keep hitting the Enter key with my > elbow when I reach for the phone. At those times, the double-entry > feature usually leaves the script window open. (Yes, I know. I should > move the phone.) Well, I have appreciated all the points of view on the script editor (plus quick echo of appreciation for all Dave's libURL work). It's apparent that there's no single way folks prefer to work (does this ring a bell with Jerry Daniels, maker of Constellation?). At the risk of continuing debate on the topic, I'll just throw out there that the Flash ActionScript editor has no apply/entry whatsoever: when you've finished typing the script, that's it, it doesn't close, move or otherwise go away, it's basically like a static palette that stores text. AFAIK, the editing window is passive you have to manually check the code with a buttonpress, or run your movie and wait for the IDE to return any errors. Took me a while to get used to it, but in a way it's kind of refreshing, and it behaves consistently. With Rev, I feel like I have to keep track of whether or not I edited the script because the window will behave differently depending on this fact. Doesn't seem like effective design to me, but hey, that's just me (and anyway now there's a fix for me, thanks to Geoff C.) So, like the hundreds of cliché politicians before me have said, "Let's celebrate our differences and learn to work together!" *gag* Regards, Scott Rossi Creative Director Tactile Media, Multimedia & Design - E: [EMAIL PROTECTED] W: http://www.tactilemedia.com ___ use-revolution mailing list use-revolution@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
Re: Turn Off Double-Entry?
It has been brought to my attention that certain flattering comments with respect to the frequency of bugs in libUrl have been made on this list. In line with traditional Scottish good grace, all I can say is if it's money you're after, the answer's no. We seem to be getting into a discussion about bugs again. At the risk of us all getting banished, let me offer a few comments. Unlike Richard, I do spend quite a lot of time in the debugger. But at the risk of harming Jacque's jaw again, I never use it for debugging libUrl. When I started out with libUrl, the debugger was of little use. The problem is that libUrl does most of its stuff asynchronously (read from socket x with message y, etc.), and the debugger couldn't cope with the out-of-context stuff. (try/catch handlers have the same problem) So most of the debugging is done by using libUrl's built-in log function to trace various values at various stages. A little tedious, but it works. One day I'll check out whether recent improvements in the debugger make a difference in thi area, but it's hard to break habits. As for the number of bugs in libUrl, I can assure Richard it's had it's fair share. I originally agreed to take on the libUrl task because I needed it to work for a project I was working on at the time. This was an application that used ftp and http, and was used by a number of companies in Europe and Asia. As a result, the libUrl script has received some severe testing on various networks, and it still does. And because of this, a lot of bugs have come to my attention and been fixed before you lot could complain about them. :-) Going off at a slight tangent ... I know people complain about bugs in Rev from time to time (OK. All the time.). I've had hangs and crashes in the IDE myself. But the application I mentioned above (Windows only) has gone through many changes and engine updates, and has been used by a few thousand people in various locations, and since the 2.4.1 version of the engine, I've not had one report of a crash from a user. I think that's pretty good going, and it's why I'm with Richard when he says it's the engine that matters. I see bugs in the IDE as an inconvenience, but bugs in the engine are a threat to my income. Sorry, Scott. This is drifting away from your original complaint. I'm probably on your side on this one, but sometimes there is an advantage to the double-entry feature. I've got one of those sleek Apple edgeless keyboards, and I keep hitting the Enter key with my elbow when I reach for the phone. At those times, the double-entry feature usually leaves the script window open. (Yes, I know. I should move the phone.) Cheers Dave ___ use-revolution mailing list use-revolution@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
Re: Turn Off Double-Entry?
On Apr 26, 2006, at 11:21 AM, J. Landman Gay wrote: [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: The variable watcher misses variables (especially the clickLine). It is possible to use the spacebar to step through code (although there is no obvious way to know this) - except that it often will not work for the first step. Attempting to use the "Find" command in the debugger will scramble the script editor window and scripts being edited. I didn't even know you could use the Find command in the debugger! (Or I guess what this is saying is you really *can't*.) I use the Find thingie at the bottom of the editor all the time, day in and day out, and haven't ever seen this happen. How odd. Do you use script colorization? I never do, so I wonder if that has anything to do with it? I use script colorization all the time (avert your eyes, Jacque), and I have never had any problem using Find and Replace in the script editor. Devin Devin Asay Humanities Technology and Research Support Center Brigham Young University ___ use-revolution mailing list use-revolution@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
Re: Turn Off Double-Entry?
Richard Gaskin wrote: J. Landman Gay wrote: Richard Gaskin wrote: This one is a known, and intentional, escape procedure. It happens when there is a bug in a script that is called from your debugging script, such as one in a library or backscript. If there is a bug in there, the engine will go into an infinite loop (which is what happens in the MC IDE, and you have to force-quit.) Please send details to either me or the MC list, and I'll address it ASAP. I don't use the debugger much myself, but cleaning it up and enhancing it might get me to do so. :) My first reaction is to pick my jaw up off the floor. How can you not use the debugger much? I *live* in the debugger! Who can program without a debugger? I write perfect code? :) Oh. Well, in that case, I take it all back. ;) Pttth. :P -- Jacqueline Landman Gay | [EMAIL PROTECTED] HyperActive Software | http://www.hyperactivesw.com ___ use-revolution mailing list use-revolution@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
Re: Turn Off Double-Entry?
J. Landman Gay wrote: Richard Gaskin wrote: This one is a known, and intentional, escape procedure. It happens when there is a bug in a script that is called from your debugging script, such as one in a library or backscript. If there is a bug in there, the engine will go into an infinite loop (which is what happens in the MC IDE, and you have to force-quit.) Please send details to either me or the MC list, and I'll address it ASAP. I don't use the debugger much myself, but cleaning it up and enhancing it might get me to do so. :) My first reaction is to pick my jaw up off the floor. How can you not use the debugger much? I *live* in the debugger! Who can program without a debugger? I write perfect code? :) You are making more work for yourself, I think. I've been using some internal debugging and logging tools, so I've not been without debugging, heavens no. I just haven't used MC's in a while. In most cases all I need to to know which line is causing the problem. It's usually just a typo, so those are easy to fix. Making changes to data structures and properties is where things get harrier in the stuff I've been working on, but logging tools have helped me not only debug those but also measure the time they're spending so I can optimize them. -- Richard Gaskin Managing Editor, revJournal ___ Rev tips, tutorials and more: http://www.revJournal.com ___ use-revolution mailing list use-revolution@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
Re: Turn Off Double-Entry?
Now that's a bandwagon I can jump on! Dave is THE MAN :-) libURL has probably the lowest bug density of any substantial Transcript work I've seen. Amazing, admirable, and inspiring effort, Dave. I can't say enough good things about Dave. He has consistently supported libURL like a true pro, and always with good grace and humor. What a guy. -- -- Chipp Walters www.altuit.com ___ use-revolution mailing list use-revolution@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
Re: Turn Off Double-Entry?
Richard Gaskin wrote: J. Landman Gay wrote: Often it will step though a couple lines of code then drop to the bottom of the handler. You can set debug checkpoints which do not trigger the debugger at all. This one is a known, and intentional, escape procedure. It happens when there is a bug in a script that is called from your debugging script, such as one in a library or backscript. If there is a bug in there, the engine will go into an infinite loop (which is what happens in the MC IDE, and you have to force-quit.) Please send details to either me or the MC list, and I'll address it ASAP. I don't use the debugger much myself, but cleaning it up and enhancing it might get me to do so. :) My first reaction is to pick my jaw up off the floor. How can you not use the debugger much? I *live* in the debugger! Who can program without a debugger? You are making more work for yourself, I think. My second reaction is, yes, if I can find a reproducible example I will send it to you, but I'm not sure it can be fixed. It has been in the MC engine since I came on board, Scott Raney knew about it, we discussed it, and he didn't fix it. Since that was very rare behavior for him, it must be hard to repair. The Rev team knows about it, and provided an escape route but the core problem is still there. It may just be a function of how the engine has to work, and there may be very little we can do to fix it. ... In my case, one of the bugs was in libURL. Every time I tried to debug my downloading scripts, I got the skipped handler business. I was finally able to track it down by setting breakpoints in libURL itself -- at which point Dave Cragg immediately fixed the problem. libURL has probably the lowest bug density of any substantial Transcript work I've seen. Amazing, admirable, and inspiring effort, Dave. I can't say enough good things about Dave. He has consistently supported libURL like a true pro, and always with good grace and humor. What a guy. -- Jacqueline Landman Gay | [EMAIL PROTECTED] HyperActive Software | http://www.hyperactivesw.com ___ use-revolution mailing list use-revolution@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
Re: Turn Off Double-Entry?
On Apr 26, 2006, at 9:52 AM, David Burgun wrote: Just a different perspective on this - I always search out 3rd party tools once I start using a development environment. I've never developed apps in CodeWarrior, but for Director, Flash, etc., the 3rd party providers were doing really cool stuff that made my development life easier and more productive. I think some 3rd party tools can make it easier to get started in a new dev environment if it simplifies the task the new developer is trying to accomplish. 3rd party developers have a great benefit in that they can focus on a smaller subset of needs than the application developer can. The 3rd party might also have more experience or expertise in a given area then the main app developer so they can offer more value in that particular area. True, I totally agree, but if you have to use the 3rd party tools to overcome simple problems in the basic product then it's a different story. In my experience 3rd party tools can also have the side effect of making the original developer less vigilant in their own product. I think this really comes down to the nature of the folks who run the company. If a developer allows their apps core features to suffer because it can be solved by someone else then I think there is a problem. I don't think that is a good attitude. If the developer decides not to focus on a particular area in their app for the time being because it can be solved by a 3rd party, that is different. In the case of the the script editor or property inspector, I don't look at Constellation as fixing the Rev script/property components, I look at it as a different approach. Among other things, Constellation uses tabs for editing object props and scripts and packs more information into less space. I really like this for inspecting object properties. I still use BBEdit for my script editing but I prefer the Constellation approach to object props to the Revolution one. What if there were no 3rd party tools for RunRev and no one was interested in developing them? The question you have to ask is how much added traffic would there be on this list? I'm not sure how that would affect traffic but I think it would decrease. I believe Revolution started as a 3rd party product for the MetaCard engine. I never used the MetaCard engine before Revolution. I downloaded it a few times but it never made sense to me. When I downloaded Rev and tried it (not realizing they were the same engine at the time) I was at least able to get into the engine a little more. In this case, the 3rd party tool increased the user base. If someone just can't live without tabbed script editing in their dev environment and Constellation offers that then the Rev user base increases. The same for 3rd party tools the Altuit and the Tactile Media offerings. These 3rd party tools make me more productive in Rev and expand the number of projects I can tackle with it. I think 3rd party tools are a good thing in that there are developers who care enough about the development platform to want to improve and enhance it. -- Trevor DeVore Blue Mango Learning Systems - www.bluemangolearning.com [EMAIL PROTECTED] ___ use-revolution mailing list use-revolution@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
Re: Turn Off Double-Entry?
J. Landman Gay wrote: Often it will step though a couple lines of code then drop to the bottom of the handler. You can set debug checkpoints which do not trigger the debugger at all. This one is a known, and intentional, escape procedure. It happens when there is a bug in a script that is called from your debugging script, such as one in a library or backscript. If there is a bug in there, the engine will go into an infinite loop (which is what happens in the MC IDE, and you have to force-quit.) Please send details to either me or the MC list, and I'll address it ASAP. I don't use the debugger much myself, but cleaning it up and enhancing it might get me to do so. :) ... In my case, one of the bugs was in libURL. Every time I tried to debug my downloading scripts, I got the skipped handler business. I was finally able to track it down by setting breakpoints in libURL itself -- at which point Dave Cragg immediately fixed the problem. libURL has probably the lowest bug density of any substantial Transcript work I've seen. Amazing, admirable, and inspiring effort, Dave. -- Richard Gaskin Managing Editor, revJournal ___ Rev tips, tutorials and more: http://www.revJournal.com ___ use-revolution mailing list use-revolution@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
Re: Turn Off Double-Entry?
Recently, Geoff Canyon wrote: >> I don't suppose there's any way to turn off or otherwise disable the >> double-entry key sequence to close the script editor? > > I think you're looking for the script of field "script" of stack > "revTemplateScriptEditor" It's easy to get at using (shameless plug) > Navigator: http://www.inspiredlogic.com/navigator I'm all for shameless plugs. They often inform me about tips, tricks, hacks and other workarounds that I usually wouldn't know about. Thanks Geoff. Regards, Scott Rossi Creative Director Tactile Media, Multimedia & Design - E: [EMAIL PROTECTED] W: http://www.tactilemedia.com ___ use-revolution mailing list use-revolution@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
Re: Turn Off Double-Entry?
David Burgun wrote: On 25 Apr 2006, at 19:23, Jim Ault wrote: Later I am switching windows and happen to click on the Replace button, and without realizing it, I have replaced the string "tCounter" with empty in every part of my stack script. There is no undo for this, even if I realized my mistake the moment it happens.. I wish I could get in the habit of Always changing from the Find mode of a script window, but not yet. I would prefer a hidden Replace function since it is so dangerous. It would be better to have a separate Find/Replace dialog box like most IDE's I've used IMO. I NEVER use the find+replace function in the Script Editor, it's way too dangerous in other ways too. For instance the "whole words" option doesn't work right, or works oddly in some situations. I usually copy the whole script into a CodeWarrior window and do the Find/Replace and then copy back. Ouch. Sorry to see you work that hard. What works for end-user apps is sometimes suboptimal in a development tool. While it's admirable in many applications that provide search to put it right in the window like OS X does in the Finder, it's worth noting that Apple's XCode editor doesn't. XCode's powerful Search and Replace dialog is a separate window, as it is in MetaCard and will remain when I externalize its script editor as a plugin. The windowBoundingRect is another area where what works for end-users often causes problems for developers: toolbars should rightfully adjust the windowBoundingRect so maximized windows don't "submarine" their controls under the toolbar. But a developer isn't just *using* software, she's *making* software, so she needs the freedom to see how windows will behave on their own without the IDE changing the way the environment works. Look at the number of posts to this list expressing confusion over window placement to get a feel for the scope of this issue. Adding a simple vertical drag bar to the Mac toolbar so it can be moved like it can on other platforms takes care of the issue in just minutes, provided the IDE leaves the windowBoundingRect under the control of its user. devolution 2.0 will have an Inspector modeled after the one in Macromedia Fireworks, which normally sits as a long slender bar across the bottom of the workspace. It has a vertical drag bar so it can be moved if needed, and double-clicking the drag bar causes it to snap back into its preferred location. Simple stuff. Stepping back to look at the bigger picture, many of these issues come down to grokking the central role of the engine in the larger story of the total workflow, accomodating the need to observe and understand the inherent behaviors that the developer will be delivering to their own users. A development tool that includes a deployable framework, such as one might consider the engine, is indeed two separate entities. Even a well-intentioned desire to blur the lines between the engine and the IDE in an attempt to provide the appearance of a single cohesive product ultimately misses the point of such a product: the product itself is unimportant, what's important is the product its user will create with it. Maintaining clarity about what the developer uses and what the developer deploys helps move that along. An IDE that minimizes the distance between the developer and the engine they'll deploy to their end-users may not allow as much hand-holding convenience in some respects, but will make for a more empowering and productive experience over the whole of its user's development cycle. Know the engine. Use the engine. Trust the engine. -- Richard Gaskin Managing Editor, revJournal ___ Rev tips, tutorials and more: http://www.revJournal.com ___ use-revolution mailing list use-revolution@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
Re: Turn Off Double-Entry?
On 26 Apr 2006, at 18:12, Richard Gaskin wrote: David Burgun wrote: On 25 Apr 2006, at 21:06, Richard Gaskin wrote: Ton Kuypers suggested: > use Constellation? A good choice. And there's MetaCard, and devolution, and you can roll you're own The problem is for Newbies. If you are learning a new environment you really don't want to add to the learning curve by using 3rd party tools and writing a Script Editor is way too complex a job for a newbie. Besides all that, the reason you use an IDE is to take the sweat out of software development, if you can't trust the tools that come with it, well.. I hear ya', but I have no influence with RunRev. I can only contribute what I can: I can help maintain a script editor that's pretty much bug-free, I can break it out into its own package to make it accessible to users of other IDEs, I can enhance it (along with some nifty goodies coming from Ken Ray) to make it more useful, and I can even give it away -- but I can't put it in the box. I'm happy to contribute what I can, but my position is not without limitations. Yes, I understand your position. Your products are really good and I know that you personally have contributed loads to this technology, and, I for one really appreciate it. Keep up the good work! All the Best Dave ___ use-revolution mailing list use-revolution@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
Re: Turn Off Double-Entry?
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Good point, Dave, But I'm not sure why we are having this discussion at all. Whether it takes one click or two clicks to close the script editor is the least of the problems with the editor and, worse yet, the debugger. It opens to random window sizes. Sometimes it opens almost off the screen. Sometimes it opens but simply will not run. I haven't ever seen any of these, but I do know about this one: Often it will step though a couple lines of code then drop to the bottom of the handler. You can set debug checkpoints which do not trigger the debugger at all. This one is a known, and intentional, escape procedure. It happens when there is a bug in a script that is called from your debugging script, such as one in a library or backscript. If there is a bug in there, the engine will go into an infinite loop (which is what happens in the MC IDE, and you have to force-quit.) In Revolution, the script editor has been programmed to stop execution entirely, thus preventing the need to force-quit. This behavior is actually saving you some trouble, though it can be frustrating because it is not clear where the bug is. In my case, one of the bugs was in libURL. Every time I tried to debug my downloading scripts, I got the skipped handler business. I was finally able to track it down by setting breakpoints in libURL itself -- at which point Dave Cragg immediately fixed the problem. It was a painful and frustrating debugging session but I was able to nail it. The second time this happened, the bug was in one of Rev's backscripts. Again, it took a long time to find, particularly because the error was pretty unique to the file paths on my drive and RR couldn't reproduce it. I reported it and it has been fixed. So while I agree it can be frustrating, I think that Rev's behavior of skipping the handler entirely is much better than MC's behavior of going into a loop that you cannot exit from and which requires a force-quit (and loss of your work.) You can set debug checkpoints that get removed when the debugger runs. Not sure, but this may be related to the above. The variable watcher misses variables (especially the clickLine). It is possible to use the spacebar to step through code (although there is no obvious way to know this) - except that it often will not work for the first step. Attempting to use the "Find" command in the debugger will scramble the script editor window and scripts being edited. I use the Find thingie at the bottom of the editor all the time, day in and day out, and haven't ever seen this happen. How odd. Do you use script colorization? I never do, so I wonder if that has anything to do with it? -- Jacqueline Landman Gay | [EMAIL PROTECTED] HyperActive Software | http://www.hyperactivesw.com ___ use-revolution mailing list use-revolution@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
Re: Turn Off Double-Entry?
OTOH, perhaps due to my being an old HC guy, that very behaviour is
what's burned in to my muscle memory, and I don't think I've ever had
the problem you describe - maybe I'm just luckyI'd be really
annoyed if it changed, though.
Best,
Mark
On 25 Apr 2006, at 18:30, Scott Rossi wrote:
I don't suppose there's any way to turn off or otherwise disable the
double-entry key sequence to close the script editor?
This is something that has always bothered me about Rev's script
editor. If
a script has been edited at all, it requires two hits of the enter
key close
the window (apply and close) while if a script has *not* been
edited, only
one hit. I find myself getting in the habit of automatically
pressing enter
twice to dismiss the script editor which, as I discovered today, is
bad if
you have an executable command sitting in the message box ("delete
this
card").
I now hate the behavior of the script editor window more than
ever. Is
there anything I can do to change it?
Thanks & Regards,
Scott Rossi
Creative Director
Tactile Media, Multimedia & Design
-
E: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
W: http://www.tactilemedia.com
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Re: Turn Off Double-Entry?
David Burgun wrote: On 25 Apr 2006, at 21:06, Richard Gaskin wrote: Ton Kuypers suggested: > use Constellation? A good choice. And there's MetaCard, and devolution, and you can roll you're own The problem is for Newbies. If you are learning a new environment you really don't want to add to the learning curve by using 3rd party tools and writing a Script Editor is way too complex a job for a newbie. Besides all that, the reason you use an IDE is to take the sweat out of software development, if you can't trust the tools that come with it, well.. I hear ya', but I have no influence with RunRev. I can only contribute what I can: I can help maintain a script editor that's pretty much bug-free, I can break it out into its own package to make it accessible to users of other IDEs, I can enhance it (along with some nifty goodies coming from Ken Ray) to make it more useful, and I can even give it away -- but I can't put it in the box. I'm happy to contribute what I can, but my position is not without limitations. -- Richard Gaskin Managing Editor, revJournal ___ Rev tips, tutorials and more: http://www.revJournal.com ___ use-revolution mailing list use-revolution@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
Re: Turn Off Double-Entry?
On 26 Apr 2006, at 16:40, Trevor DeVore wrote: On Apr 26, 2006, at 8:18 AM, David Burgun wrote: Also, when a newbie buys RunRev and starts to use it, depending on their past experience, they have a big task to get their head around, a programming language, an IDE and the whole MC concept. They really don't want to take on any more at that time. Just a different perspective on this - I always search out 3rd party tools once I start using a development environment. I've never developed apps in CodeWarrior, but for Director, Flash, etc., the 3rd party providers were doing really cool stuff that made my development life easier and more productive. I think some 3rd party tools can make it easier to get started in a new dev environment if it simplifies the task the new developer is trying to accomplish. 3rd party developers have a great benefit in that they can focus on a smaller subset of needs than the application developer can. The 3rd party might also have more experience or expertise in a given area then the main app developer so they can offer more value in that particular area. True, I totally agree, but if you have to use the 3rd party tools to overcome simple problems in the basic product then it's a different story. In my experience 3rd party tools can also have the side effect of making the original developer less vigilant in their own product. What if there were no 3rd party tools for RunRev and no one was interested in developing them? The question you have to ask is how much added traffic would there be on this list? All the Best Dave ___ use-revolution mailing list use-revolution@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
Re: Turn Off Double-Entry?
On Apr 25, 2006, at 10:30 AM, Scott Rossi wrote: I don't suppose there's any way to turn off or otherwise disable the double-entry key sequence to close the script editor? I think you're looking for the script of field "script" of stack "revTemplateScriptEditor" It's easy to get at using (shameless plug) Navigator: http://www.inspiredlogic.com/navigator Here's the handler in question: on enterInField pOverRide if the enabled of btn "apply" then set the hilite of btn "apply" to true set the hilite of btn "apply" to false revUpdateSingleHandler revCompileScript true if the result is "applied" then disable btn "Revert" disable btn "Apply" end if if pOverRide then lock messages close this stack revSEShowPalettes unlock messages end if exit to top else close this stack end if end enterInField Change line 11 to: if pOverRide or (not the enabled of btn "apply") then Apply the script (last time you have to press Enter twice ;-) and save the stack. To be safe, work on a copy of Revolution. So of course I didn't just now... Quit and re-open Rev. Now pressing Enter while editing a script will apply the script, and if the script has no errors, close the editor. This code is from 2.7.1 dp 4. regards, Geoff ___ use-revolution mailing list use-revolution@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
Re: Turn Off Double-Entry?
On Apr 26, 2006, at 8:18 AM, David Burgun wrote: Also, when a newbie buys RunRev and starts to use it, depending on their past experience, they have a big task to get their head around, a programming language, an IDE and the whole MC concept. They really don't want to take on any more at that time. Just a different perspective on this - I always search out 3rd party tools once I start using a development environment. I've never developed apps in CodeWarrior, but for Director, Flash, etc., the 3rd party providers were doing really cool stuff that made my development life easier and more productive. I think some 3rd party tools can make it easier to get started in a new dev environment if it simplifies the task the new developer is trying to accomplish. 3rd party developers have a great benefit in that they can focus on a smaller subset of needs than the application developer can. The 3rd party might also have more experience or expertise in a given area then the main app developer so they can offer more value in that particular area. -- Trevor DeVore Blue Mango Learning Systems - http://www.bluemangolearning.com [EMAIL PROTECTED] ___ use-revolution mailing list use-revolution@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
Re: Turn Off Double-Entry?
Comments about your own experience are, of course valid. Best, Jerry Daniels Consultants & Developers http://www.daniels-mara.com Voice: 512.879.6286 Skype: jerry.daniels On Apr 26, 2006, at 10:18 AM, David Burgun wrote: On 26 Apr 2006, at 15:59, Jerry Daniels wrote: If I read this thread correctly, it isn't that the Rev IDE is untrustworthy, but rather that the second typing of an enter key closes the Rev script editor. Yes, bad UI design. It's not just that though, there are loads of problems in the IDE, especially with the Script Editor. If basic development environments didn't have third party tools, they wouldn't last long. Third party products exist to enrich a platform, not because the underlying "standard" product is untrustworthy or un-useable. It's a matter of providing more choices, extending functionality and creating diversity--the hallmarks of evolution (or in Richard's case "Devolution"). CodeWarrior didn't have any 3rd party tools that I ever used or *needed* to use and CodeWarrior lasted a fairly long time! In general I have nothing against 3rd party tools, but the "basic" package should be able to handle basic things without falling over or causing scripts to be corrupted or lost. There are a number of development environments I have used over the years that didn't have 3rd party tools and they lasted a long time or are still going. We have Constellation (www.daniels-mara.com/products/ constellation.htm) users who have never used the Revolution script editor--newbies to Revolution, if you will. The same can be said of the Metacard IDE and Devolution (Richard Gaskin's IDE). There are also people who are using Scott Rossi's excellent tools (www.tactilemedia.com) and have never used the "stock" object alignnment and colorizing. Sure, but you shouldn't be *forced* to use them because the basic package is not all it should be. Also, when a newbie buys RunRev and starts to use it, depending on their past experience, they have a big task to get their head around, a programming language, an IDE and the whole MC concept. They really don't want to take on any more at that time. Jerry Buy Constellation from Runtime Revolution! http://revstudio.runrev.com/section/revselect/constellation/ I (and many others) already bought RunRev! Why should we have to buy something else just to work around problems in the RunRev IDE? All the Best Dave ___ use-revolution mailing list use-revolution@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution ___ use-revolution mailing list use-revolution@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
Re: Turn Off Double-Entry?
Hi, Yes, I've encountered all those problems too! The other problem with using 3rd party tools in this case is that if you have just gotten your manager to approve buying RunRev and then you say you want to spend more money on something else cos the RunRev IDE isn't up to the task, then they are likely to as why you are using it in the first place! I've been in that spot before and it isn't a good spot to be in!!! All the Best Dave On 26 Apr 2006, at 16:10, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Good point, Dave, But I'm not sure why we are having this discussion at all. Whether it takes one click or two clicks to close the script editor is the least of the problems with the editor and, worse yet, the debugger. It opens to random window sizes. Sometimes it opens almost off the screen. Sometimes it opens but simply will not run. Often it will step though a couple lines of code then drop to the bottom of the handler. You can set debug checkpoints which do not trigger the debugger at all. You can set debug checkpoints that get removed when the debugger runs. The variable watcher misses variables (especially the clickLine). It is possible to use the spacebar to step through code (although there is no obvious way to know this) - except that it often will not work for the first step. Attempting to use the "Find" command in the debugger will scramble the script editor window and scripts being edited. Etc. Etc. These issues have been present since the debugger was introduced. They are there in version after version of Rev. Many are listed in Bugzilla. Most are obvious to a causual user. But they don't get fixed! I hope they listen to Scott, but history is not encouraging. Paul Looney -Original Message- From: David Burgun <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: How to use Revolution Sent: Wed, 26 Apr 2006 14:01:01 +0100 Subject: Re: Turn Off Double-Entry? On 25 Apr 2006, at 21:06, Richard Gaskin wrote: > Ton Kuypers suggested: > > use Constellation? > > A good choice. And there's MetaCard, and devolution, and you can > roll you're own > The problem is for Newbies. If you are learning a new environment you really don't want to add to the learning curve by using 3rd party tools and writing a Script Editor is way too complex a job for a newbie. Besides all that, the reason you use an IDE is to take the sweat out of software development, if you can't trust the tools that come with it, well.. All the Best Dave ___ use-revolution mailing list use-revolution@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution ___ use-revolution mailing list use-revolution@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution ___ use-revolution mailing list use-revolution@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
Re: Turn Off Double-Entry?
On 26 Apr 2006, at 15:59, Jerry Daniels wrote: If I read this thread correctly, it isn't that the Rev IDE is untrustworthy, but rather that the second typing of an enter key closes the Rev script editor. Yes, bad UI design. It's not just that though, there are loads of problems in the IDE, especially with the Script Editor. If basic development environments didn't have third party tools, they wouldn't last long. Third party products exist to enrich a platform, not because the underlying "standard" product is untrustworthy or un-useable. It's a matter of providing more choices, extending functionality and creating diversity--the hallmarks of evolution (or in Richard's case "Devolution"). CodeWarrior didn't have any 3rd party tools that I ever used or *needed* to use and CodeWarrior lasted a fairly long time! In general I have nothing against 3rd party tools, but the "basic" package should be able to handle basic things without falling over or causing scripts to be corrupted or lost. There are a number of development environments I have used over the years that didn't have 3rd party tools and they lasted a long time or are still going. We have Constellation (www.daniels-mara.com/products/ constellation.htm) users who have never used the Revolution script editor--newbies to Revolution, if you will. The same can be said of the Metacard IDE and Devolution (Richard Gaskin's IDE). There are also people who are using Scott Rossi's excellent tools (www.tactilemedia.com) and have never used the "stock" object alignnment and colorizing. Sure, but you shouldn't be *forced* to use them because the basic package is not all it should be. Also, when a newbie buys RunRev and starts to use it, depending on their past experience, they have a big task to get their head around, a programming language, an IDE and the whole MC concept. They really don't want to take on any more at that time. Jerry Buy Constellation from Runtime Revolution! http://revstudio.runrev.com/section/revselect/constellation/ I (and many others) already bought RunRev! Why should we have to buy something else just to work around problems in the RunRev IDE? All the Best Dave ___ use-revolution mailing list use-revolution@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
Re: Turn Off Double-Entry?
Good point, Dave, But I'm not sure why we are having this discussion at all. Whether it takes one click or two clicks to close the script editor is the least of the problems with the editor and, worse yet, the debugger. It opens to random window sizes. Sometimes it opens almost off the screen. Sometimes it opens but simply will not run. Often it will step though a couple lines of code then drop to the bottom of the handler. You can set debug checkpoints which do not trigger the debugger at all. You can set debug checkpoints that get removed when the debugger runs. The variable watcher misses variables (especially the clickLine). It is possible to use the spacebar to step through code (although there is no obvious way to know this) - except that it often will not work for the first step. Attempting to use the "Find" command in the debugger will scramble the script editor window and scripts being edited. Etc. Etc. These issues have been present since the debugger was introduced. They are there in version after version of Rev. Many are listed in Bugzilla. Most are obvious to a causual user. But they don't get fixed! I hope they listen to Scott, but history is not encouraging. Paul Looney -Original Message- From: David Burgun <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: How to use Revolution Sent: Wed, 26 Apr 2006 14:01:01 +0100 Subject: Re: Turn Off Double-Entry? On 25 Apr 2006, at 21:06, Richard Gaskin wrote: > Ton Kuypers suggested: > > use Constellation? > > A good choice. And there's MetaCard, and devolution, and you can > roll you're own > The problem is for Newbies. If you are learning a new environment you really don't want to add to the learning curve by using 3rd party tools and writing a Script Editor is way too complex a job for a newbie. Besides all that, the reason you use an IDE is to take the sweat out of software development, if you can't trust the tools that come with it, well.. All the Best Dave ___ use-revolution mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution ___ use-revolution mailing list use-revolution@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
Re: Turn Off Double-Entry?
If I read this thread correctly, it isn't that the Rev IDE is untrustworthy, but rather that the second typing of an enter key closes the Rev script editor. If basic development environments didn't have third party tools, they wouldn't last long. Third party products exist to enrich a platform, not because the underlying "standard" product is untrustworthy or un- useable. It's a matter of providing more choices, extending functionality and creating diversity--the hallmarks of evolution (or in Richard's case "Devolution"). We have Constellation (www.daniels-mara.com/products/ constellation.htm) users who have never used the Revolution script editor--newbies to Revolution, if you will. The same can be said of the Metacard IDE and Devolution (Richard Gaskin's IDE). There are also people who are using Scott Rossi's excellent tools (www.tactilemedia.com) and have never used the "stock" object alignnment and colorizing. Jerry Buy Constellation from Runtime Revolution! http://revstudio.runrev.com/section/revselect/constellation/ On Apr 26, 2006, at 8:01 AM, David Burgun wrote: On 25 Apr 2006, at 21:06, Richard Gaskin wrote: Ton Kuypers suggested: > use Constellation? A good choice. And there's MetaCard, and devolution, and you can roll you're own The problem is for Newbies. If you are learning a new environment you really don't want to add to the learning curve by using 3rd party tools and writing a Script Editor is way too complex a job for a newbie. Besides all that, the reason you use an IDE is to take the sweat out of software development, if you can't trust the tools that come with it, well.. All the Best Dave ___ use-revolution mailing list use-revolution@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution ___ use-revolution mailing list use-revolution@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
Re: Turn Off Double-Entry?
On 25 Apr 2006, at 21:06, Richard Gaskin wrote: Ton Kuypers suggested: > use Constellation? A good choice. And there's MetaCard, and devolution, and you can roll you're own The problem is for Newbies. If you are learning a new environment you really don't want to add to the learning curve by using 3rd party tools and writing a Script Editor is way too complex a job for a newbie. Besides all that, the reason you use an IDE is to take the sweat out of software development, if you can't trust the tools that come with it, well.. All the Best Dave ___ use-revolution mailing list use-revolution@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
Re: Turn Off Double-Entry?
On 25 Apr 2006, at 19:23, Jim Ault wrote: Later I am switching windows and happen to click on the Replace button, and without realizing it, I have replaced the string "tCounter" with empty in every part of my stack script. There is no undo for this, even if I realized my mistake the moment it happens.. I wish I could get in the habit of Always changing from the Find mode of a script window, but not yet. I would prefer a hidden Replace function since it is so dangerous. It would be better to have a separate Find/Replace dialog box like most IDE's I've used IMO. I NEVER use the find+replace function in the Script Editor, it's way too dangerous in other ways too. For instance the "whole words" option doesn't work right, or works oddly in some situations. I usually copy the whole script into a CodeWarrior window and do the Find/Replace and then copy back. All the Best Dave ___ use-revolution mailing list use-revolution@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
Re: Turn Off Double-Entry?
Scott Rossi wrote:
> I don't suppose there's any way to turn off or otherwise disable the
> double-entry key sequence to close the script editor?
>
> This is something that has always bothered me about Rev's script
> editor. If a script has been edited at all, it requires two hits
> of the enter key close the window (apply and close) while if a
> script has *not* been edited, only one hit. I find myself getting
> in the habit of automatically pressing enter twice to dismiss the
> script editor which, as I discovered today, is bad if you have an
> executable command sitting in the message box ("delete this
> card").
> I now hate the behavior of the script editor window more than ever.
Frequently-used gestures must be chosen carefully for that exact reason.
Jim Ault agreed:
> I also have been bitten by the design of the script editor window.
> Since I usually have different palettes and windows open, I am in
> the habit of clicking somewhere a window to activate it. In the
> script editor, once you do a find for "tCounter", it remains in
> the find input box.
>
> Later I am switching windows and happen to click on the Replace
> button, and without realizing it, I have replaced the string
> "tCounter" with empty in every part of my stack script. There is
> no undo for this, even if I realized my mistake the moment it
> happens..
Ton Kuypers suggested:
> use Constellation?
A good choice. And there's MetaCard, and devolution, and you can roll
you're own
--
Richard Gaskin
Managing Editor, revJournal
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Re: Turn Off Double-Entry?
Scott Rossi wrote:
I don't suppose there's any way to turn off or otherwise disable the
double-entry key sequence to close the script editor?
This is something that has always bothered me about Rev's script editor. If
a script has been edited at all, it requires two hits of the enter key close
the window (apply and close) while if a script has *not* been edited, only
one hit. I find myself getting in the habit of automatically pressing enter
twice to dismiss the script editor which, as I discovered today, is bad if
you have an executable command sitting in the message box ("delete this
card").
I now hate the behavior of the script editor window more than ever. Is
there anything I can do to change it?
You can use option-enter (on Windows, alt-enter) to save and close the
editor.
--
Jacqueline Landman Gay | [EMAIL PROTECTED]
HyperActive Software | http://www.hyperactivesw.com
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Re: Turn Off Double-Entry?
Scott,
How about a frontScript which catches closeStack and enterKey -
1) Snoop for a closeStack sent to the script editor
2) Don't pass any enterKey messages within a threshold (say 1 second)
of closing the script editor
Wrap up, throw in a plugin... should work?
- Brian
I don't suppose there's any way to turn off or otherwise disable the
double-entry key sequence to close the script editor?
This is something that has always bothered me about Rev's script
editor. If
a script has been edited at all, it requires two hits of the enter key
close
the window (apply and close) while if a script has *not* been edited,
only
one hit. I find myself getting in the habit of automatically pressing
enter
twice to dismiss the script editor which, as I discovered today, is
bad if
you have an executable command sitting in the message box ("delete this
card").
I now hate the behavior of the script editor window more than ever. Is
there anything I can do to change it?
Thanks & Regards,
Scott Rossi
Creative Director
Tactile Media, Multimedia & Design
-
E: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
W: http://www.tactilemedia.com
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Re: Turn Off Double-Entry?
I also have been bitten by the design of the script editor window.
Since I usually have different palettes and windows open, I am in the habit
of clicking somewhere a window to activate it. In the script editor, once
you do a find for "tCounter", it remains in the find input box.
Later I am switching windows and happen to click on the Replace button, and
without realizing it, I have replaced the string "tCounter" with empty in
every part of my stack script. There is no undo for this, even if I
realized my mistake the moment it happens.. I wish I could get in the habit
of Always changing from the Find mode of a script window, but not yet.
I would prefer a hidden Replace function since it is so dangerous.
Jim Ault
Las Vegas
On 4/25/06 10:30 AM, "Scott Rossi" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> I don't suppose there's any way to turn off or otherwise disable the
> double-entry key sequence to close the script editor?
>
> This is something that has always bothered me about Rev's script editor. If
> a script has been edited at all, it requires two hits of the enter key close
> the window (apply and close) while if a script has *not* been edited, only
> one hit. I find myself getting in the habit of automatically pressing enter
> twice to dismiss the script editor which, as I discovered today, is bad if
> you have an executable command sitting in the message box ("delete this
> card").
>
> I now hate the behavior of the script editor window more than ever. Is
> there anything I can do to change it?
>
> Thanks & Regards,
>
> Scott Rossi
> Creative Director
> Tactile Media, Multimedia & Design
> -
> E: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> W: http://www.tactilemedia.com
>
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> preferences:
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Re: Turn Off Double-Entry?
use Constellation?
;-)
Warm regards,
Ton Kuypers
Digital Media Partners bvba
Tel. +32 (0)477 / 739 530
Fax +32 (0)14 / 71 03 04
http://www.dmp-int.com
On 25-apr-06, at 19:30, Scott Rossi wrote:
I don't suppose there's any way to turn off or otherwise disable the
double-entry key sequence to close the script editor?
This is something that has always bothered me about Rev's script
editor. If
a script has been edited at all, it requires two hits of the enter
key close
the window (apply and close) while if a script has *not* been
edited, only
one hit. I find myself getting in the habit of automatically
pressing enter
twice to dismiss the script editor which, as I discovered today, is
bad if
you have an executable command sitting in the message box ("delete
this
card").
I now hate the behavior of the script editor window more than
ever. Is
there anything I can do to change it?
Thanks & Regards,
Scott Rossi
Creative Director
Tactile Media, Multimedia & Design
-
E: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
W: http://www.tactilemedia.com
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Turn Off Double-Entry?
I don't suppose there's any way to turn off or otherwise disable the
double-entry key sequence to close the script editor?
This is something that has always bothered me about Rev's script editor. If
a script has been edited at all, it requires two hits of the enter key close
the window (apply and close) while if a script has *not* been edited, only
one hit. I find myself getting in the habit of automatically pressing enter
twice to dismiss the script editor which, as I discovered today, is bad if
you have an executable command sitting in the message box ("delete this
card").
I now hate the behavior of the script editor window more than ever. Is
there anything I can do to change it?
Thanks & Regards,
Scott Rossi
Creative Director
Tactile Media, Multimedia & Design
-
E: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
W: http://www.tactilemedia.com
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