Re: confirmed recipe for linux copy & paste trouble...

[Richard Gaskin]

Peter Alcibiades wrote:

-- revPrintField needs to work properly - permit font choices and formatting.
This is a major hassle, what you would be able to do with it, you're instead
obliged to  export the file and then hack around in awk or something
similar.


Should be no need.  As long as the engine can handle the printing, all 
that remains is tweaking the revPrintField scripts.


I've had occasion to poke around in them before, and would be willing to 
explore a fix for them.


Are the details of what's not working included in the RQCC report, and 
what is that #?



-- virtual desktops, ie the ability to put different windows of the app on
different desktops and work with them there and have them stay put.  This
isn't a big deal for Richmond, but it is for me, its how I work.  And any
regular Linux user will be nonplussed about not being able to do this.


This one will likely require an engine change to fix completely, but 
given the recipe for success I posted here a few days ago it may be 
possible to find a scripted solution to help in some cases, possibly 
with the IDE as well.


In that earlier post I had some questions for you:

I just ran another test and found something VERY interesting:
if you close MC's toolbar you can move windows independently
across different desktops!  Success!

So now one of us needs to try to pin down exactly what the
difference is between the working and non-working states here:
is it the order in which windows are opened?  Their mode?

If you have time to make a standalone to experiment with this
the results will likely be invaluable for fixing it.

I generally keep all my Rev windows in one desktop, so this isn't
a big issue for me, but if you have time to help diagnose this
the success I found with MC's toolbar closed suggests we might
be able to find a relatively simple fix for this.


Forgive me if you've already posted the answers, but I missed them if 
you did.


Have you had a chance to experiment with this to pin down exactly what 
causes this in some Rev setups but not others?



--
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Re: confirmed recipe for linux copy & paste trouble...

[Peter Alcibiades]

-- revPrintField needs to work properly - permit font choices and formatting. 
This is a major hassle, what you would be able to do with it, you're instead
obliged to  export the file and then hack around in awk or something
similar.

-- virtual desktops, ie the ability to put different windows of the app on
different desktops and work with them there and have them stay put.  This
isn't a big deal for Richmond, but it is for me, its how I work.  And any
regular Linux user will be nonplussed about not being able to do this.

On the font resize, I had wondered whether the new geometry manager applied
to the home stack would take care of this, but apparently not.  Too bad.
-- 
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Re: confirmed recipe for linux copy & paste trouble...

[Richmond]

On 07/22/2010 02:51 PM, Peter Alcibiades wrote:

All the same, it cannot just be parcellite (never heard of that before)
because my crash on cut and paste occurred in a totally untweaked Debian new
install, so it must be using glipper as the clipboard.  The thing to do
might be, replace parcellite with glipper, then reproduce Andre's result,
then replace glipper with klipper and try to reproduce his result.  Weird
stuff.
   


http://parcellite.sourceforge.net/

a coming thing already gone; but nevertheless seems to manifest itself 
in the panel

of GNOME on Ubuntu 10.04.
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Re: confirmed recipe for linux copy & paste trouble...

[Richard Gaskin]

Would someone please let me know where this report is in the RQCC?  If 
it's not there yet, could one of you who've experienced it open a new 
report with Andre's notes included?  Thanks.


More good news (kinda) for Peter, re. font sizes in the IDE:

Because Rev IDE objects inherit their textFont and textSize from the 
Home stack, it occurred to me that one could change those for all IDE 
elements in one step with this:


   set the textSize of stack "Home" to 14

The good news is that this does indeed increase the textSize of the 
objects in the toolbar, Inspector, and other places I checked.


The bad news is that it doesn't adjust the layout, so some things look a 
bit more cramped at that size.


So an immediate short-term solution for IDE labels too small to read: 
just run that line followed by a save command to save the Home stack, 
and you should be set.


Longer-term solution:  Someone could write a patcher that adjusts the 
control layouts in the IDE to accommodate the larger text size.  It 
needn't be quite so daunting as it sounds, since it could be done in 
stages; start with the main menu bar, then the Inspector, then whatever 
else you need.



In review:

- The engine team has addressed the issue with default button 
appearances under Linux, to be part of the next release.


- Andre found a workaround for the Paste problem, and hopefully with 
adding that to the RQCC the engine team will be able to address it.


- IDE font size can be worked around somewhat with one line of code, and 
anything more refined can be done with a patcher if desired.


- Andre has offered to make a Debian package for the Rev install.

- printPaperOrientation is being investigated by the engine team; no 
word on that at the moment.


We're on a good roll.  Thanks to all who've participated.

What other issues affect the Rev experience on Linux?

--
 Richard Gaskin
 Fourth World
 Rev training and consulting: http://www.fourthworld.com
 Webzine for Rev developers: http://www.revjournal.com
 revJournal blog: http://revjournal.com/blog.irv
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Re: confirmed recipe for linux copy & paste trouble...

[Andre Garzia]

Folks,

Thanks for the kind words! I discovered that after cursing the IDE for half
an hour, I could not select text in any fields, not even selection worked,
as soon as I released the mouse button, selection would disapear. I could
not copy and paste controls as well. I wondered if things were actually
going to the clipboard and not being pasted or if they were simply not
copied in the first place. I clicked on the clipboard manager and saw
nothing in there, then I had the eureka moment: "how does that thing traps
the clipboard, could it be breaking it?" and then we know the rest.

This is a common practice to solve linux issues. If something is not
working, look for add-ons that touch those places and see if they are
somehow interfering with it. Linux ecosystem is made by thousands of
software developers and they don't have a plan, guideline and some projects
doesn't even talk to each other to make sure things work well. One as a
linux user is assumed to be in a position to troubleshoot his system but now
that linux is becoming really popular, these guys should be working on
polishing the experience and making sure things cooperate with  each other.

This problem is mitigated if you build everything from source. Modern build
systems adapt the hell out of your code basically making bespoke versions of
the software for the combinations of library and resources you have
installed, thus making sure the software is in an optimum state for the
system but this can't be done for prepackaged binary software. What we could
do is to try to solve some of Rev on linux problems is to create .debs and
.rpms with the correct dependencies set so that one installing Rev would at
least load the required libs as well, this would help I think...

:D

On Thu, Jul 22, 2010 at 8:51 AM, Peter Alcibiades <
palcibiades-fi...@yahoo.co.uk> wrote:

>
> All the same, it cannot just be parcellite (never heard of that before)
> because my crash on cut and paste occurred in a totally untweaked Debian
> new
> install, so it must be using glipper as the clipboard.  The thing to do
> might be, replace parcellite with glipper, then reproduce Andre's result,
> then replace glipper with klipper and try to reproduce his result.  Weird
> stuff.
> --
> View this message in context:
> http://runtime-revolution.278305.n4.nabble.com/confirmed-recipe-for-linux-copy-paste-trouble-tp2297662p2298543.html
> Sent from the Revolution - User mailing list archive at Nabble.com.
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Re: confirmed recipe for linux copy & paste trouble...

[Peter Alcibiades]

All the same, it cannot just be parcellite (never heard of that before)
because my crash on cut and paste occurred in a totally untweaked Debian new
install, so it must be using glipper as the clipboard.  The thing to do
might be, replace parcellite with glipper, then reproduce Andre's result,
then replace glipper with klipper and try to reproduce his result.  Weird
stuff.
-- 
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http://runtime-revolution.278305.n4.nabble.com/confirmed-recipe-for-linux-copy-paste-trouble-tp2297662p2298543.html
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Re: confirmed recipe for linux copy & paste trouble...

[Richmond]

On 07/22/2010 12:07 PM, Peter Alcibiades wrote:

apt-get remove glipper

apt-get install klipper

Done.

Peter
   


It's "Richmond makes a fool of himself time" again, again, again . . .

The 'thing' that Ubuntu 10.04 had shoved in a very MicroSoft/Apple sort
of way ("We know what you want, and you don't") is called

Parcellite  "Lightweight GTK + clipboard manager"

now, when it was pointed out that quitting the clipboard manager in the 
GNOME panel
copy-paste in RunRev would start behaving itself I merrily assumed I was 
in some way
managing to do copy-pasting by bypassing the whole clipboard (which, 
when one thinks

about it is complete rubbish).

Quitting Parcellite does make the copy-paste problem in RunRev go away, 
so removing
glipper and installing klipper (and, shortly I will install 'flipper' 
inside my brain . . . tootle, tootle,
pippety-pippety poo; as the chap said to the executioner as he lay his 
head down below the guillotine;
"I do hope you disinfected the blade, it wouldn't do if I caught a nasty 
infection.")

may not be strictly necessary.

-

Time for a trick, totally OT question:

Does anyone know where to find the chassis number on a 2010 Toyota Auris 



It took me 2 hours in the hot sun Boiled my brains right thoroughly.

Guess it is not just computer operating systems that are complete swine 
. . .  :)


-

Parcellite keeps popping up in the panel on a restart so I shall try a

sudo apt-get remove parcellite

and, just maybe, purely by accident and total goofiness, I may have got 
something

right for once.

-

Or, as they say in Ruritania; "There's always madness in his method."
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Re: confirmed recipe for linux copy & paste trouble...

[Richmond]

On 07/22/2010 12:07 PM, Peter Alcibiades wrote:

apt-get remove glipper

apt-get install klipper

Done.

Peter
   

Lovely job!
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Re: confirmed recipe for linux copy & paste trouble...

[Peter Alcibiades]

apt-get remove glipper

apt-get install klipper

Done.

Peter
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Re: confirmed recipe for linux copy & paste trouble...

[Richmond]

On 07/22/2010 02:16 AM, Bob Sneidar wrote:

Someone who benefited from this tidbit of information should send this guy a 
box of Godiva chocolates.


   

He might prefer just Godiva without the chocolate . . .  :)
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Re: confirmed recipe for linux copy & paste trouble...

[Richmond]

On 07/22/2010 12:03 AM, Andre Garzia wrote:

Richmond,

Mine had a remove from panel... I just used it... I think it was glipper...

After removing it, copying and pasting started working, before that I could
not even select text.

:D

O
   

Ar . . . . too much freedom is almost as dangerous as slavery . . .

Imagine a world where everybody built their own car, computer, 
you-name-it, from scratch.


Obviously 'my' clipboard manager (which as far as I can see is the 
default one
for Ubuntu 10.04) is not the same as 'your' clipboard manager; and 
there's the rub.

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Re: confirmed recipe for linux copy & paste trouble...

[Richard Gaskin]

Andre Garzia wrote:


I've just isolated one problem using copy & paste under linux. If gnome
clipboard manager panel item is on the panel, you loose copy and paste, if
it is not, then it works fine.


Good work, Andre. Thanks.

I was going to append your note to the RQCC report for this, but I 
couldn't turn it up.


Anyone here have the #?

--
 Richard Gaskin
 Fourth World
 Rev training and consulting: http://www.fourthworld.com
 Webzine for Rev developers: http://www.revjournal.com
 revJournal blog: http://revjournal.com/blog.irv
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Re: confirmed recipe for linux copy & paste trouble...

[Bob Sneidar]

Someone who benefited from this tidbit of information should send this guy a 
box of Godiva chocolates. 


On Jul 21, 2010, at 12:46 PM, Andre Garzia wrote:

> Folks,
> 
> I've just isolated one problem using copy & paste under linux. If gnome
> clipboard manager panel item is on the panel, you loose copy and paste, if
> it is not, then it works fine.
> 
> Andre
> 
> -- 
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Re: confirmed recipe for linux copy & paste trouble...

[Bob Sneidar]

I can only say, "DAYAM!"

Bob


On Jul 21, 2010, at 12:46 PM, Andre Garzia wrote:

> Folks,
> 
> I've just isolated one problem using copy & paste under linux. If gnome
> clipboard manager panel item is on the panel, you loose copy and paste, if
> it is not, then it works fine.
> 
> Andre
> 
> -- 
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Re: confirmed recipe for linux copy & paste trouble...

[David C.]

> Folks,
>
> I've just isolated one problem using copy & paste under linux. If gnome
> clipboard manager panel item is on the panel, you loose copy and paste, if
> it is not, then it works fine.


Confirmed!
Freshly installed Linux Mint 9 (Ubuntu derivative) 3 days old, freshly
installed RunRev 4.0.0 Studio (10 minutes ago)

I didn't have the clipboard manager installed on this system at all
and everything worked fine with copy/paste. Did the installation of
the Gnome based clipboard manager called "Glipper" added it to the
panel and the problems immediately began just as indicated.

Amazing that you found that!

Best regards,
David C.
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Re: confirmed recipe for linux copy & paste trouble...

[J. Landman Gay]

On 7/21/10 2:46 PM, Andre Garzia wrote:

Folks,

I've just isolated one problem using copy&  paste under linux. If gnome
clipboard manager panel item is on the panel, you loose copy and paste, if
it is not, then it works fine.


Bravo! Put it into the QCC for us, okay?

--
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HyperActive Software   | http://www.hyperactivesw.com
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Re: confirmed recipe for linux copy & paste trouble...

[Andre Garzia]

Richmond,

Mine had a remove from panel... I just used it... I think it was glipper...

After removing it, copying and pasting started working, before that I could
not even select text.

:D

On Wed, Jul 21, 2010 at 5:56 PM, Richmond wrote:

> On 07/21/2010 10:46 PM, Andre Garzia wrote:
>
>> Folks,
>>
>> I've just isolated one problem using copy&  paste under linux. If gnome
>> clipboard manager panel item is on the panel, you loose copy and paste, if
>> it is not, then it works fine.
>>
>> Andre
>>
>>
>>
> Bravo: only one big snag . . .
>
> the clipboard manager seems to be an inbuilt part of the panel
> that also invloves the date & time and so on; a right-click
> only offers ABOUT, PREFERENCES and QUIT.
>
> On quitting is does go away; but, presumably, will restart everytime
> you reboot the system, as there is no REMOVE FROM PANEL option.
>
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Re: confirmed recipe for linux copy & paste trouble...

[Richmond]

On 07/21/2010 10:46 PM, Andre Garzia wrote:

Folks,

I've just isolated one problem using copy&  paste under linux. If gnome
clipboard manager panel item is on the panel, you loose copy and paste, if
it is not, then it works fine.

Andre

   

Bravo: only one big snag . . .

the clipboard manager seems to be an inbuilt part of the panel
that also invloves the date & time and so on; a right-click
only offers ABOUT, PREFERENCES and QUIT.

On quitting is does go away; but, presumably, will restart everytime
you reboot the system, as there is no REMOVE FROM PANEL option.
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Re: confirmed recipe for linux copy & paste trouble...

[Peter Alcibiades]

That is brilliant!  Cannot imagine how you ever thought of trying that.  I'll
fire up Gnome and have a go.

Much of today was spent struggling with trying to decode a .mny file for
someone.  Hopeless.  You cannot even go through it and extract the ascii. 
It will no longer open in any of the versions of money he has.  When you
repair the file, it tells you it is perfectly fine.  Then it declines to
open the one it allegedly repaired it to.  Nothing will import or convert
it.   Its at moments like this that you understand the point of open
formats.

By way of an apology for being a bit behind on the slackware testing.
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confirmed recipe for linux copy & paste trouble...

[Andre Garzia]

Folks,

I've just isolated one problem using copy & paste under linux. If gnome
clipboard manager panel item is on the panel, you loose copy and paste, if
it is not, then it works fine.

Andre

-- 
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