Re: filling a db on CD, what happens?

2008-02-09 Thread Kay C Lan
On Feb 9, 2008 2:33 PM, Ruslan Zasukhin <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

>
> Also we have meet even more complex ideas, when play a third db which is
> online under Valentina Server.
>

Hadn't thought that far in advance but good to know that such flexibility is
possible.

Thanks
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Re: filling a db on CD, what happens?

2008-02-08 Thread Ruslan Zasukhin
On 9/2/08 6:04 AM, "Kay C Lan" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

Hi Kay,

> On Feb 7, 2008 2:02 PM, Ruslan Zasukhin <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> 
>> 
>> In general case Databases (w.g. SqlLite or Valentina) will not allow you
>> do
>> this on CD. You will get exception/error on the first attempt to do
>> INSERT/UPDATE/DELETE  ... CREATE/ALTER TABLE
>> 
> 
> But what about a case where ALL you want to do is SELECT.

Then no problems, and hundreds, usually Director Valentina developers, do
this. They develop CD/DVD based projects -- for education, presentations,
catalogs, games, ...

-
> Lets say you have a 'Tour of the Museum of Fine Art', a DB with a couple of
> entries for title,artist,year,description,style,image (image being a high
> resolution .jpg). Because of the images the whole lot comes to a couple of
> GBs so you put it on a DVD. The intention is only to 'view'. Is it possible
> to save the User the need to clog their HD by leaving the DB on DVD.

Yes of course possible, why not? :-)
 
Only difference here is that APPLICATION will work with TWO or MORE dbs:
first db (read only) on DVD, second on the HDD.

Also we have meet even more complex ideas, when play a third db which is
online under Valentina Server.

> What about a Hybrid.
> 
> If the above is possible, then what about an approach where your Rev front
> end is stored on the Users HD and creates a small DB. The small DB has two
> entries, notes and a pointer to the read only DVD DB. In this way a user
> could enter their own notes about each painting in the museum, these notes
> would be written to the small DB and be remembered, and modifiable as
> required.
> 
> NOTE. I appreciate that this is not the 'normal/fastest' way you'd handle
> this in a DB. I'm simply interested in whether this will work.

-- 
Best regards,

Ruslan Zasukhin
VP Engineering and New Technology
Paradigma Software, Inc

Valentina - Joining Worlds of Information
http://www.paradigmasoft.com

[I feel the need: the need for speed]


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Re: filling a db on CD, what happens?

2008-02-08 Thread Kay C Lan
On Feb 7, 2008 2:02 PM, Ruslan Zasukhin <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

>
> In general case Databases (w.g. SqlLite or Valentina) will not allow you
> do
> this on CD. You will get exception/error on the first attempt to do
> INSERT/UPDATE/DELETE  ... CREATE/ALTER TABLE
>

But what about a case where ALL you want to do is SELECT.

Lets say you have a 'Tour of the Museum of Fine Art', a DB with a couple of
entries for title,artist,year,description,style,image (image being a high
resolution .jpg). Because of the images the whole lot comes to a couple of
GBs so you put it on a DVD. The intention is only to 'view'. Is it possible
to save the User the need to clog their HD by leaving the DB on DVD.

What about a Hybrid.

If the above is possible, then what about an approach where your Rev front
end is stored on the Users HD and creates a small DB. The small DB has two
entries, notes and a pointer to the read only DVD DB. In this way a user
could enter their own notes about each painting in the museum, these notes
would be written to the small DB and be remembered, and modifiable as
required.

NOTE. I appreciate that this is not the 'normal/fastest' way you'd handle
this in a DB. I'm simply interested in whether this will work.

Thanks
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Re: AW: AW: filling a db on CD, what happens?

2008-02-07 Thread Andre Garzia
Oops... my bad... :D

On 2/6/08, Luis <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> That'd be Structured Query Language, don't be that kind to it...
>
> Cheers,
>
> Luis.
>
>
> Andre Garzia wrote:
> > Tiemo,
> >
> > I've been using both RDBMS and flat files. A quick opinion is that
> > with SQL you don't need to reinvent the wheel and this is specially
> > good when you're going to do cross references and searching. SQL
> > stands for Simple Query Language, it's really easy to make queries
> > with SQL.
> >
> > With flat files, you need to roll your own search routines and this
> > can be a huge bottleneck on your code. If you go brute force looking
> > every single record in your thousand+ database, you're sure that will
> > take a while. If you decide to optimize your searches and build your
> > own indexing and searching, then you'll spend a lot of time in there.
> >
> > So, for my projects, I settle like this: if there's heavy searching go
> > with SQL, if it's just data storage and retrieval, then stack files
> > will do.
> >
> > I must say, I am in love with stack files, they are so flexible!
> >
> > Cheers
> > andre
> >
> > On 2/6/08, Tiemo Hollmann TB <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> >> Hi Derek,
> >>
> >>> Like I said though, it depends entire upon the type of database you are
> >>> working with.  I don't use SQL as I find it to be rather bulky.  I use
> >>> Flat Files, and I write all of my own database handlers, so my coding is
> >>> not dependent on SQL or some other type of database and it's limitations.
> >> Interesting to read, did you ever compared the performance on "big" datas?
> >> Up to now I havn't found a performing way how to loop through 20.000 
> >> records
> >> in a flat file for generic selection with a search term compared with a
> >> select - where. Looping through 20.000 records and searching for a sting
> >> with lineoffset() to select a list of datas wasn't fast enough for me.
> >> Perhaps you found a better trick?
> >>
> >> Tiemo
> >>
> >>
> >> ___
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> >
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AW: filling a db on CD, what happens?

2008-02-07 Thread Tiemo Hollmann TB
Thanks to all of your know how,
I have get a lot of helpful suggestions. AS always there are a lot of
different approaches to get to your target. Any remote or online
constructions can't be done, because I have also very basic equipped single
user without internet connection (yes there are still some of these species
:)
In my project, I think I will go with valentine db because I have robust
multi user support, integrated encryption feature and sql for fast selection
in 20.000 records.
Tiemo

> -Ursprüngliche Nachricht-
> Von: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:use-revolution-
> [EMAIL PROTECTED] Im Auftrag von viktoras didziulis
> Gesendet: Donnerstag, 7. Februar 2008 08:44
> An: How to use Revolution
> Betreff: Re: filling a db on CD, what happens?
> 
> what about storing data to an external database on a remote server ?..
> Or is the data too user specific or privacy sensitive (or how is it
> called correctly in English?..) and there is no point to save it at all?
> What about using usb flashdrive instead of CD ? Or simply putting the
> application online to be downloaded and installed locally or maybe load
> and run directly from the web server, if it is small enough ?
> 
> Viktoras
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Re: filling a db on CD, what happens?

2008-02-06 Thread viktoras didziulis
what about storing data to an external database on a remote server ?.. 
Or is the data too user specific or privacy sensitive (or how is it 
called correctly in English?..) and there is no point to save it at all? 
What about using usb flashdrive instead of CD ? Or simply putting the 
application online to be downloaded and installed locally or maybe load 
and run directly from the web server, if it is small enough ?


Viktoras
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Re: filling a db on CD, what happens?

2008-02-06 Thread Ruslan Zasukhin
On 7/2/08 8:15 AM, "Joe Lewis Wilkins" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

> Question: If you were to use a Writable CD would it be possible to
> save the Data?

No :-)

-- 
Best regards,

Ruslan Zasukhin
VP Engineering and New Technology
Paradigma Software, Inc

Valentina - Joining Worlds of Information
http://www.paradigmasoft.com

[I feel the need: the need for speed]


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Re: filling a db on CD, what happens?

2008-02-06 Thread Joe Lewis Wilkins
Question: If you were to use a Writable CD would it be possible to  
save the Data?


Joe Wilkins

On Feb 6, 2008, at 10:02 PM, Ruslan Zasukhin wrote:


On 6/2/08 7:32 PM, "Derek Bump" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

Hi All,

In general case Databases (w.g. SqlLite or Valentina) will not allow  
you do

this on CD. You will get exception/error on the first attempt to do
INSERT/UPDATE/DELETE  ... CREATE/ALTER TABLE

In the same time, you can with Valentina (and it seems with SqlLite  
also)
create RAM-only database and then use it. Difference only that your  
data

will not be saved to CD when your app quits.

On the other hand, RAM based db can be about 10 times faster than  
disk-based

one. :-)


Tiemo,

It depends on how the Database is handled.  You will have to either  
test
it out, or read the documentation for the database type you are  
working

with.

The other solutions presented are definitely the best way to go.   
Create
your "default" database and burn it to CD.  When the program on the  
CD
is launched, copy it to the user's hard drive and start using that  
copy

to work with.

Like I said though, it depends entire upon the type of database you  
are
working with.  I don't use SQL as I find it to be rather bulky.  I  
use
Flat Files, and I write all of my own database handlers, so my  
coding is
not dependent on SQL or some other type of database and it's  
limitations.


The advantage and disadvantage of programming is that sometimes you  
have

to re-invent the wheel.  That's just how it goes.


Derek Bump
Dreamscape Software
http://www.dreamscapesoftware.com


---

Tiemo Hollmann TB wrote:

Hi Derek,

When you open a file or program, it is placed into memory.  From  
there,
you can fill variables, fields, properties, etc.  You just can't  
save

those changes back to the file on the CD.


yes, but isn't this the same with a database, as long, as I don't  
want to
save the changes? Or is a database an exception with this handling  
and is

only the current sql set in memory - probably!?


--
Best regards,

Ruslan Zasukhin
VP Engineering and New Technology
Paradigma Software, Inc

Valentina - Joining Worlds of Information
http://www.paradigmasoft.com

[I feel the need: the need for speed]


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Joe Lewis Wilkins
[EMAIL PROTECTED]



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Re: filling a db on CD, what happens?

2008-02-06 Thread Ruslan Zasukhin
On 6/2/08 7:32 PM, "Derek Bump" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

Hi All,

In general case Databases (w.g. SqlLite or Valentina) will not allow you do
this on CD. You will get exception/error on the first attempt to do
INSERT/UPDATE/DELETE  ... CREATE/ALTER TABLE

In the same time, you can with Valentina (and it seems with SqlLite also)
create RAM-only database and then use it. Difference only that your data
will not be saved to CD when your app quits.

On the other hand, RAM based db can be about 10 times faster than disk-based
one. :-)

> Tiemo,
> 
> It depends on how the Database is handled.  You will have to either test
> it out, or read the documentation for the database type you are working
> with.
> 
> The other solutions presented are definitely the best way to go.  Create
> your "default" database and burn it to CD.  When the program on the CD
> is launched, copy it to the user's hard drive and start using that copy
> to work with.
> 
> Like I said though, it depends entire upon the type of database you are
> working with.  I don't use SQL as I find it to be rather bulky.  I use
> Flat Files, and I write all of my own database handlers, so my coding is
> not dependent on SQL or some other type of database and it's limitations.
> 
> The advantage and disadvantage of programming is that sometimes you have
> to re-invent the wheel.  That's just how it goes.
> 
> 
> Derek Bump
> Dreamscape Software
> http://www.dreamscapesoftware.com

---
> Tiemo Hollmann TB wrote:
>> Hi Derek,
>>  
>>> When you open a file or program, it is placed into memory.  From there,
>>> you can fill variables, fields, properties, etc.  You just can't save
>>> those changes back to the file on the CD.
>> 
>> yes, but isn't this the same with a database, as long, as I don't want to
>> save the changes? Or is a database an exception with this handling and is
>> only the current sql set in memory - probably!?

-- 
Best regards,

Ruslan Zasukhin
VP Engineering and New Technology
Paradigma Software, Inc

Valentina - Joining Worlds of Information
http://www.paradigmasoft.com

[I feel the need: the need for speed]


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Re: AW: AW: filling a db on CD, what happens?

2008-02-06 Thread Luis

That'd be Structured Query Language, don't be that kind to it...

Cheers,

Luis.


Andre Garzia wrote:

Tiemo,

I've been using both RDBMS and flat files. A quick opinion is that
with SQL you don't need to reinvent the wheel and this is specially
good when you're going to do cross references and searching. SQL
stands for Simple Query Language, it's really easy to make queries
with SQL.

With flat files, you need to roll your own search routines and this
can be a huge bottleneck on your code. If you go brute force looking
every single record in your thousand+ database, you're sure that will
take a while. If you decide to optimize your searches and build your
own indexing and searching, then you'll spend a lot of time in there.

So, for my projects, I settle like this: if there's heavy searching go
with SQL, if it's just data storage and retrieval, then stack files
will do.

I must say, I am in love with stack files, they are so flexible!

Cheers
andre

On 2/6/08, Tiemo Hollmann TB <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

Hi Derek,


Like I said though, it depends entire upon the type of database you are
working with.  I don't use SQL as I find it to be rather bulky.  I use
Flat Files, and I write all of my own database handlers, so my coding is
not dependent on SQL or some other type of database and it's limitations.

Interesting to read, did you ever compared the performance on "big" datas?
Up to now I havn't found a performing way how to loop through 20.000 records
in a flat file for generic selection with a search term compared with a
select - where. Looping through 20.000 records and searching for a sting
with lineoffset() to select a list of datas wasn't fast enough for me.
Perhaps you found a better trick?

Tiemo


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Re: AW: AW: AW: filling a db on CD, what happens?

2008-02-06 Thread Derek Bump

Tiemo,

When it comes to huge databases with records in the thousands then yes, 
I do resort to other database engines.  But as of yet, I have not been 
involved in projects that large.


Most of my projects involve small databases, usually with records well 
under 1,000.  So flat-file is the way I usually to go.



Derek Bump
Dreamscape Software
http://www.dreamscapesoftware.com

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Tiemo Hollmann TB wrote:

Interesting to read, did you ever compared the performance on "big" datas?
Up to now I havn't found a performing way how to loop through 20.000 records
in a flat file for generic selection with a search term compared with a
select - where. Looping through 20.000 records and searching for a sting
with lineoffset() to select a list of datas wasn't fast enough for me.
Perhaps you found a better trick?

Tiemo


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Re: AW: AW: filling a db on CD, what happens?

2008-02-06 Thread Andre Garzia
Tiemo,

I've been using both RDBMS and flat files. A quick opinion is that
with SQL you don't need to reinvent the wheel and this is specially
good when you're going to do cross references and searching. SQL
stands for Simple Query Language, it's really easy to make queries
with SQL.

With flat files, you need to roll your own search routines and this
can be a huge bottleneck on your code. If you go brute force looking
every single record in your thousand+ database, you're sure that will
take a while. If you decide to optimize your searches and build your
own indexing and searching, then you'll spend a lot of time in there.

So, for my projects, I settle like this: if there's heavy searching go
with SQL, if it's just data storage and retrieval, then stack files
will do.

I must say, I am in love with stack files, they are so flexible!

Cheers
andre

On 2/6/08, Tiemo Hollmann TB <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Hi Derek,
>
> >
> > Like I said though, it depends entire upon the type of database you are
> > working with.  I don't use SQL as I find it to be rather bulky.  I use
> > Flat Files, and I write all of my own database handlers, so my coding is
> > not dependent on SQL or some other type of database and it's limitations.
>
> Interesting to read, did you ever compared the performance on "big" datas?
> Up to now I havn't found a performing way how to loop through 20.000 records
> in a flat file for generic selection with a search term compared with a
> select - where. Looping through 20.000 records and searching for a sting
> with lineoffset() to select a list of datas wasn't fast enough for me.
> Perhaps you found a better trick?
>
> Tiemo
>
>
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AW: AW: AW: filling a db on CD, what happens?

2008-02-06 Thread Tiemo Hollmann TB
Hi Derek,

> 
> Like I said though, it depends entire upon the type of database you are
> working with.  I don't use SQL as I find it to be rather bulky.  I use
> Flat Files, and I write all of my own database handlers, so my coding is
> not dependent on SQL or some other type of database and it's limitations.

Interesting to read, did you ever compared the performance on "big" datas?
Up to now I havn't found a performing way how to loop through 20.000 records
in a flat file for generic selection with a search term compared with a
select - where. Looping through 20.000 records and searching for a sting
with lineoffset() to select a list of datas wasn't fast enough for me.
Perhaps you found a better trick?

Tiemo


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Re: AW: AW: filling a db on CD, what happens?

2008-02-06 Thread Derek Bump

Tiemo,

It depends on how the Database is handled.  You will have to either test 
it out, or read the documentation for the database type you are working 
with.


The other solutions presented are definitely the best way to go.  Create 
your "default" database and burn it to CD.  When the program on the CD 
is launched, copy it to the user's hard drive and start using that copy 
to work with.


Like I said though, it depends entire upon the type of database you are 
working with.  I don't use SQL as I find it to be rather bulky.  I use 
Flat Files, and I write all of my own database handlers, so my coding is 
not dependent on SQL or some other type of database and it's limitations.


The advantage and disadvantage of programming is that sometimes you have 
to re-invent the wheel.  That's just how it goes.



Derek Bump
Dreamscape Software
http://www.dreamscapesoftware.com

___
Compress your photos quickly and easily with JPEGCompress 2.9!
http://www.dreamscapesoftware.com/products/jpegcompress/


Tiemo Hollmann TB wrote:

Hi Derek,
 

When you open a file or program, it is placed into memory.  From there,
you can fill variables, fields, properties, etc.  You just can't save
those changes back to the file on the CD.


yes, but isn't this the same with a database, as long, as I don't want to
save the changes? Or is a database an exception with this handling and is
only the current sql set in memory - probably!?

Thanks
Tiemo

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AW: AW: filling a db on CD, what happens?

2008-02-06 Thread Tiemo Hollmann TB
Hi Derek,
 
> When you open a file or program, it is placed into memory.  From there,
> you can fill variables, fields, properties, etc.  You just can't save
> those changes back to the file on the CD.

yes, but isn't this the same with a database, as long, as I don't want to
save the changes? Or is a database an exception with this handling and is
only the current sql set in memory - probably!?

Thanks
Tiemo

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Re: AW: filling a db on CD, what happens?

2008-02-06 Thread Derek Bump

Tiemo,

When you open a file or program, it is placed into memory.  From there, 
you can fill variables, fields, properties, etc.  You just can't save 
those changes back to the file on the CD.


You could create some sort of multi-session built in burning feature... 
but eventually you will fill up the CD and that's the end of that story.



Derek Bump
Dreamscape Software
http://www.dreamscapesoftware.com

___
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Tiemo Hollmann TB wrote:

Hi Eric,
thats what I knew, but I was also thinking, where is the difference between
filling data into a field or property of a stack (what is possible on CD)
and filling data in a db, as far as I don't want to save it - what for sure
isn't possible on CD and what I wouldn't need.
Thanks
Tiemo


-Ursprüngliche Nachricht-
Von: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:use-revolution-
[EMAIL PROTECTED] Im Auftrag von Eric Chatonet
Gesendet: Mittwoch, 6. Februar 2008 12:19
An: How to use Revolution
Betreff: Re: filling a db on CD, what happens?

Hi Tiemo,

A CD is read-only so you can't modify any file on it.
But you can copy a file to the user HD in the temporary folder, use
and modify it and delete it when finished.



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AW: filling a db on CD, what happens?

2008-02-06 Thread Tiemo Hollmann TB
Hi Eric,
thats what I knew, but I was also thinking, where is the difference between
filling data into a field or property of a stack (what is possible on CD)
and filling data in a db, as far as I don't want to save it - what for sure
isn't possible on CD and what I wouldn't need.
Thanks
Tiemo

> -Ursprüngliche Nachricht-
> Von: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:use-revolution-
> [EMAIL PROTECTED] Im Auftrag von Eric Chatonet
> Gesendet: Mittwoch, 6. Februar 2008 12:19
> An: How to use Revolution
> Betreff: Re: filling a db on CD, what happens?
> 
> Hi Tiemo,
> 
> A CD is read-only so you can't modify any file on it.
> But you can copy a file to the user HD in the temporary folder, use
> and modify it and delete it when finished.
> 

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Re: filling a db on CD, what happens?

2008-02-06 Thread Eric Chatonet

Hi Tiemo,

A CD is read-only so you can't modify any file on it.
But you can copy a file to the user HD in the temporary folder, use  
and modify it and delete it when finished.


Le 6 févr. 08 à 12:01, Tiemo Hollmann TB a écrit :


Hello,

perhaps a dumb question, I havn't worked with DBs yet. Following  
scenario:


-  running a rev app with a sqlite db from CD

-  delivering the CD with an empty db, all datas kept  
"hidden" in a

stack

-  filling the db with the stack datas when launching the app

-  working with the db, as if the datas would be always there

What happens with the db on CD, when filling, it can't expand, or  
could I
define the target size of the db, when creating the db and burning  
on CD, so

that it has not to be expanded?

My thought was to "hide" the db datas from the user  - at least so  
far, as

my app isn't open.



Would this szenario work?

Thanks for sharing

Tiemo




Best regards from Paris,
Eric Chatonet.

Plugins and tutorials for Revolution: http://www.sosmartsoftware.com/
Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED]/



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filling a db on CD, what happens?

2008-02-06 Thread Tiemo Hollmann TB
Hello,

perhaps a dumb question, I havn't worked with DBs yet. Following scenario:

-  running a rev app with a sqlite db from CD

-  delivering the CD with an empty db, all datas kept "hidden" in a
stack

-  filling the db with the stack datas when launching the app

-  working with the db, as if the datas would be always there

What happens with the db on CD, when filling, it can't expand, or could I
define the target size of the db, when creating the db and burning on CD, so
that it has not to be expanded?

My thought was to "hide" the db datas from the user  - at least so far, as
my app isn't open.

 

Would this szenario work?

Thanks for sharing

Tiemo

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