Re: game-based learning

[Tereza Snyder]

On Feb 2, 2007, at 12:32 PM, Richard Gaskin wrote:



Somewhere out there is a game waiting to be created, something that  
will open up the world of entertainment software to a whole new  
audience that isn't currently into games.


Or as I once put it at a game developer meeting:  Where is the  
"Catcher  in the Rye" of games, the thing that will appeal to  
people who like rich, provocative entertainment but aren't  
attracted to current game play models?


Maybe it'll be made by one of the readers of this list



Maybe me! In my next life, I guess.

Like Richard, my eyes were opened by Myst (well, actually by Spelunx,  
its predecessor, which BTW I'd love to find a copy of). I am bored  
bored bored by most games nowadays and so actively repelled by the  
pervasive violence that even though I belong to the Game Developers  
Association, I regard it chiefly as a theoretical study. However, may  
I recommend the SIGs of International Game Developers Association as  
a venue for making connections:


http://www.igda.org/SIGs/


in particular, the education SIG:

http://www.igda.org/education/


t


--
Tereza Snyder

   Califex Software, Inc.
   www.califexsoftware.com

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Re: game-based learning

[Marielle Lange]

Joe,

Thanks very much for sharing this. I am very keen to have your  
feedback on some work I have done which uh, may drastically cut down  
your development time ;-). I am just waiting to receive the green  
light share information on this. I will get back to you before the  
end of next week.


Do you have any more information on this project or related ones?

Marielle



On 2 Feb 2007, at 18:57, Joe Lewis Wilkins wrote:


Richard,

I'm a little reluctant to expose this thinking to public scrutiny  
at this time, but almost ten years ago I was prepared to launch a  
major endeavor that was combination electronic book and game;  
however, I got distracted - big time, and never really got back to  
it. One of the reasons was that I really didn't have the  
programming capabilities to do it without major funding from some  
source and I was unwilling to sell the idea to anyone else who  
might eventually distort my goals. Please disregard all the  
references to financing, and a few others  with respect to  
anticipated goals and a phone number that is no longer is service.  
The basic tenants are still sound and desirable. Perhaps, with  
Revolution's cross platform capabilities and multimedia  
aspirations, I may eventually be able to start work in ernest on  
the project.


visit:  

Some will call it a pipe dream; others may go even farther with  
"who in the hell does he think he is?" You can make your own decision.


TIA,

Joe Wilkins



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Re: game-based learning

[Marielle Lange]

Hi Richard,

Thanks for your comments and the tip on Brenda Laurel, didn't know  
that one. Funny, I found mention of her on  a website "game girl  
advance" . I like the pun!


Other games that are said to be highly successful with girls are:  
Alexandra Ledermann 6 : L'école des Champions www.gamekult.com/tout/jeux/fiches/J73976.html> (French only) and  
Kitchen Conundrum by Open University 


Note that in the UK, there is now a new initiative, computer club for  
girls . Girls and computing/gaming is an  
interesting emerging market ;-).


Marielle

On 2 Feb 2007, at 18:32, Richard Gaskin wrote:

Great stuff, Marielle.  I was especially interested in the comments  
about girl gaming.


I saw Brenda Laurel give the closing keynote at CHI-98, where she  
talked about her experience doing usability research to found her  
company Purple Moon (since killed by the Mattel juggernaut).


Reinforcing the observations you noted, one of the most interesting  
things she noted about girl gamers is their attraction to  
complexity. According to Laurel's research spanning a 10-year  
period, the reason girls don't play a lot of boy-oriented games is  
not because they're too difficult, but just the opposite, that the  
game play is often too simplistic.


With Purple Moon, Laurel tried to create games that appealed to  
girls' appreciation for complex relationships.  Much of the game  
play involved ethical questions in social simulation scenarios  
(e.g., do I go to the birthday party for the unpopular girl or  
accept the invitation for the party by the most popular girl for  
the same day?), and the complexity of the issues involved certainly  
carried greater variance in play than "shoot the zombie".


One of the key aspects Laurel touched on was the self-fulfilling  
prophesy of game designers:  having delivered games aimed at boys,  
game designers look to low sales among girls as a false  
reinforcement of the notion that "girls aren't into gaming".


That was one of the things I loved most about Myst when it  
premiered.  I don't play a lot of games, but Myst appealed to a  
much broader market than games had previously addressed.  It was in  
many respects the first truly literate game, and its focus on  
environmental immersion and long, complex puzzles was a radically  
meditative departure from the shoot-em-up twitchers that continue  
to dominate the market.


A thousand Myst-like games have been created since (including the  
great Alida ), and  
while they've been fun I keep wondering if there's an entirely new  
type of game waiting to be created, something as different from  
everything else we've seen as Myst was for its time.


Somewhere out there is a game waiting to be created, something that  
will open up the world of entertainment software to a whole new  
audience that isn't currently into games.


Or as I once put it at a game developer meeting:  Where is the  
"Catcher  in the Rye" of games, the thing that will appeal to  
people who like rich, provocative entertainment but aren't  
attracted to current game play models?


Maybe it'll be made by one of the readers of this list

--
 Richard Gaskin Managing Editor, revJournal
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Marielle Lange (PhD),  http://widged.com
Bite-size Applications for Education





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Re: game-based learning

[Joe Lewis Wilkins]

Richard,

I'm a little reluctant to expose this thinking to public scrutiny at  
this time, but almost ten years ago I was prepared to launch a major  
endeavor that was combination electronic book and game; however, I  
got distracted - big time, and never really got back to it. One of  
the reasons was that I really didn't have the programming  
capabilities to do it without major funding from some source and I  
was unwilling to sell the idea to anyone else who might eventually  
distort my goals. Please disregard all the references to financing,  
and a few others  with respect to anticipated goals and a phone  
number that is no longer is service. The basic tenants are still  
sound and desirable. Perhaps, with Revolution's cross platform  
capabilities and multimedia aspirations, I may eventually be able to  
start work in ernest on the project.


visit:  

Some will call it a pipe dream; others may go even farther with "who  
in the hell does he think he is?" You can make your own decision.


TIA,

Joe Wilkins

On Feb 2, 2007, at 10:32 AM, Richard Gaskin wrote:

Great stuff, Marielle.  I was especially interested in the comments  
about girl gaming.


I saw Brenda Laurel give the closing keynote at CHI-98, where she  
talked about her experience doing usability research to found her  
company Purple Moon (since killed by the Mattel juggernaut).


Reinforcing the observations you noted, one of the most interesting  
things she noted about girl gamers is their attraction to  
complexity. According to Laurel's research spanning a 10-year  
period, the reason girls don't play a lot of boy-oriented games is  
not because they're too difficult, but just the opposite, that the  
game play is often too simplistic.


With Purple Moon, Laurel tried to create games that appealed to  
girls' appreciation for complex relationships.  Much of the game  
play involved ethical questions in social simulation scenarios  
(e.g., do I go to the birthday party for the unpopular girl or  
accept the invitation for the party by the most popular girl for  
the same day?), and the complexity of the issues involved certainly  
carried greater variance in play than "shoot the zombie".


One of the key aspects Laurel touched on was the self-fulfilling  
prophesy of game designers:  having delivered games aimed at boys,  
game designers look to low sales among girls as a false  
reinforcement of the notion that "girls aren't into gaming".


That was one of the things I loved most about Myst when it  
premiered.  I don't play a lot of games, but Myst appealed to a  
much broader market than games had previously addressed.  It was in  
many respects the first truly literate game, and its focus on  
environmental immersion and long, complex puzzles was a radically  
meditative departure from the shoot-em-up twitchers that continue  
to dominate the market.


A thousand Myst-like games have been created since (including the  
great Alida ), and  
while they've been fun I keep wondering if there's an entirely new  
type of game waiting to be created, something as different from  
everything else we've seen as Myst was for its time.


Somewhere out there is a game waiting to be created, something that  
will open up the world of entertainment software to a whole new  
audience that isn't currently into games.


Or as I once put it at a game developer meeting:  Where is the  
"Catcher  in the Rye" of games, the thing that will appeal to  
people who like rich, provocative entertainment but aren't  
attracted to current game play models?


Maybe it'll be made by one of the readers of this list

--
 Richard Gaskin Managing Editor, revJournal
 ___
 Rev tips, tutorials and more: http://www.revJournal.com
___
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Re: game-based learning

[Richard Gaskin]

Great stuff, Marielle.  I was especially interested in the comments 
about girl gaming.


I saw Brenda Laurel give the closing keynote at CHI-98, where she talked 
about her experience doing usability research to found her company 
Purple Moon (since killed by the Mattel juggernaut).


Reinforcing the observations you noted, one of the most interesting 
things she noted about girl gamers is their attraction to complexity. 
According to Laurel's research spanning a 10-year period, the reason 
girls don't play a lot of boy-oriented games is not because they're too 
difficult, but just the opposite, that the game play is often too 
simplistic.


With Purple Moon, Laurel tried to create games that appealed to girls' 
appreciation for complex relationships.  Much of the game play involved 
ethical questions in social simulation scenarios (e.g., do I go to the 
birthday party for the unpopular girl or accept the invitation for the 
party by the most popular girl for the same day?), and the complexity of 
the issues involved certainly carried greater variance in play than 
"shoot the zombie".


One of the key aspects Laurel touched on was the self-fulfilling 
prophesy of game designers:  having delivered games aimed at boys, game 
designers look to low sales among girls as a false reinforcement of the 
notion that "girls aren't into gaming".


That was one of the things I loved most about Myst when it premiered.  I 
don't play a lot of games, but Myst appealed to a much broader market 
than games had previously addressed.  It was in many respects the first 
truly literate game, and its focus on environmental immersion and long, 
complex puzzles was a radically meditative departure from the 
shoot-em-up twitchers that continue to dominate the market.


A thousand Myst-like games have been created since (including the great 
Alida ), and while 
they've been fun I keep wondering if there's an entirely new type of 
game waiting to be created, something as different from everything else 
we've seen as Myst was for its time.


Somewhere out there is a game waiting to be created, something that will 
open up the world of entertainment software to a whole new audience that 
isn't currently into games.


Or as I once put it at a game developer meeting:  Where is the "Catcher 
 in the Rye" of games, the thing that will appeal to people who like 
rich, provocative entertainment but aren't attracted to current game 
play models?


Maybe it'll be made by one of the readers of this list

--
 Richard Gaskin Managing Editor, revJournal
 ___
 Rev tips, tutorials and more: http://www.revJournal.com
___
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Re: game-based learning

[Marielle Lange]

Of course, *I* am always interested ;-)


I attended a seminar today on the theme of serious gaming.
<http://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Serious_game> -- this article is in  
French only.


Presenters were Olivier Rampnoux, Julien Alvarez, Jean-Pierre Jessel.  
All members of the European Center of children products.


Very nice talk. Covered
1) Why using video games
2) Classification
3) What kind of objectives
4) Girl Gaming

Some information that came across.

1) Why be interested in games?
- Commercial domain. Market study show that nowadays kids spend more  
time in front of a console or computer connected to the web than in  
front of a television. Apparently they spend 3 hours in front of a  
screen. That's good news for advertising as this means that they have  
a chance to target a large public at a lower price (TV advertising is  
really pricey) and with less resistance (TV advertising is not that  
successful). The concept to check out there is the one of advergaming  
<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Advergaming>, <http://www.clickz.com/ 
showPage.html?page=2239071>


- Education domain. Studies show that students need more  
interactivity. The good old system whereby they sit and listen to a  
lecturer doesn't work well with them anymore. They get bored and they  
don't take much information in. Then the 1 hour format doesn't work  
well either are their attention span tends to be shorter. In  
contrast, studies show that positive emotions, like the ones you get  
when playing help with more efficient memory encoding. Hence the  
notion of Education Arcade, introduced by the MIT. www.educationarcade.org/>


2,3) Classification. They have done some *very* nice work there. They  
created a database to store information about up to 1000 games. They  
then analysed them to try to understand the different dimensions that  
characterise a game. What they mentioned during the talk was their  
analysis of objectives and goals within the game. They came up with  
10 major rules, where rules are defined by what you have to do to be  
allowed to move to the next level. These rules are Answer | Manage |  
Have luck | shoot | create | block (maintain) | destroy (collect)  |  
position | avoid | move | time | score. Then using these low level  
rules, they define bigger bricks of metarules. A game that would mix  
move and avoid as objects would make up a DRIVER game. A game that  
would mix shoot and destroy would make a KILLER game, one that would  
mix manage and create would make a GOD game. Of course, games can  
count more than one brick. If you take the good old invader, then you  
have both the driver and killer component included.


4) Girl Gaming. The big problem, you see is that games then to be  
written by boys and be most successful with boys. All good when you  
try to sell to a leisure market. Problem is when you try to do  
advergaming, failing to engage 50% of your customers is not so good.  
Then in education, having a product that works only with 50% of the  
class is not great.


There was a bit of discussion on this topic. Apparently, girls and  
boys don't use a game in the same way. I go for cliche description  
now. Girls tend to do as told and carefully, and with a lot of  
attention, engage in the game. They read every single box of text  
that appear and they have at heart to do well. They play once. They  
get a quite high score. Boys just want to have fun. They rush  
through. Then they discover that they have a score lower than their  
neighbour, so they get back to the game and try to increase their score.


Girls seem to prefer to play games where they have to think about  
games. They want to be involved with the game. They also expect to  
get something out of the game, to be taught something, to acquire  
some knowledge. They expect content. Boys are more after some direct  
and simple stimulation. That's more about having fun and then get a  
score that let you know how well you did.


Another reason of the lack of success of traditional games with girls  
is the complex devices and set of key combinations being used. Games  
where controls are a lot simpler (like the last wii console) and  
where dexterity is not that important seem to have a better success  
with girls. Some also say to prefer black and white graphics over  
these new 3D all fancy graphics.


I will be meeting various persons involved in game-based learning or  
game-making software next week. If you want to be kept within the  
information loop, let me know.


Marielle

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Re: game based learning

[Judy Perry]

Of course, *I* am always interested ;-)

Judy

On Thu, 1 Feb 2007, Marielle Lange wrote:

> Any Educator or user on the list interested in game-based learning?
>
> I would be interested in having them beta test and give feedback on
> an application. I would also be interested in creating some common
> space with relevant information.
>
> I already put a lot of links at <http://revolution.widged.com/wiki/
> tiki-index.php?page=EtivitiesGames>. But I would be interested in
> creating better organized pages with text and guidelines.
>
> Marielle
>
> 
> Marielle Lange (PhD),  http://widged.com
> Bite-size Applications for Education
>
>
>
>
>
> ___
> education-revolution mailing list
> [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/education-revolution
>

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game based learning

[Marielle Lange]

Any Educator or user on the list interested in game-based learning?

I would be interested in having them beta test and give feedback on  
an application. I would also be interested in creating some common  
space with relevant information.


I already put a lot of links at <http://revolution.widged.com/wiki/ 
tiki-index.php?page=EtivitiesGames>. But I would be interested in  
creating better organized pages with text and guidelines.


Marielle


Marielle Lange (PhD),  http://widged.com
Bite-size Applications for Education





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