Re: [DISCUSS] How to deal with the disabling of public sign ups for jira.a.o(enable github issues?)

[Duo Zhang]

Currently all the comment on github PR will be sent to issues@hbase,
like this one

https://lists.apache.org/thread/jbfm269b4m24xl2r82l8b0t3pmqr44hr

But I think this can only be used as an archive, to make sure that all
discussions are recorded on asf infrastructure.

For github issues, I'm afraid we can only do the same thing. As the
format of github comment is different, it will be hard to read if we
just sync the message to jira...

Thanks.

Bryan Beaudreault  于2022年12月1日周四 21:30写道：
>
> Should we have them sent to private@? Just thinking in terms of reducing
> spam to users who put their email and full name on a public list.
>
> One thought I had about bug tracking is whether we could use some sort of
> github -> jira sync. I've seen them used before, where it automatically
> syncs issues and comments between the two systems. It's definitely not
> ideal, but maybe an option? I'm guessing it would require INFRA help.
>
> On Thu, Dec 1, 2022 at 5:47 AM 张铎(Duo Zhang)  wrote:
>
> > I've filed HBASE-27513 for changing the readme on github.
> >
> > At least let's reuse the existing mailing list for acquiring jira account.
> >
> > Thanks.
> >
> > 张铎(Duo Zhang)  于2022年11月29日周二 22:34写道：
> >
> > >
> > > Bump and also send this to user@hbase.
> > >
> > > We need to find a way to deal with the current situation where
> > > contributors can not create a Jira account on their own...
> > >
> > > At least, we need to change the readme on github page, web site and
> > > also the ref guide to tell users how to acquire a jira account...
> > >
> > > Thanks.
> > >
> > > 张铎(Duo Zhang)  于2022年11月27日周日 22:06写道：
> > > >
> > > > For me, I think most developers already have a github account, so
> > > > enabling it could help us get more feedback. For lots of younger
> > > > Chinese developers, they rarely use email in their daily life...
> > > > No doubt later we need to modify our readme on github. If we just let
> > > > users go to github issues on the readme, they will soon open an issue
> > > > there. But if we ask users to first send an email to a mailing list,
> > > > for acquiring a jira account, and then wait for a PMC member to submit
> > > > the request, and receive the email response, set up their account, and
> > > > then they can finally open an issue on jira. I'm afraid lots of users
> > > > will just give up, it is not very friendly...
> > > >
> > > > And I do not mean separate issue systems for users and devs. Users can
> > > > still open jira issues or ask in the mailing list if they want, github
> > > > issues is just another channel. If a user asks something in the
> > > > mailing list and we think it is a bug, we will ask the user to file an
> > > > issue or we will file an issue for it. It is just the same with github
> > > > issues.
> > > >
> > > > Thanks.
> > > >
> > > > Nick Dimiduk  于2022年11月24日周四 15:44写道：
> > > > >
> > > > > This new situation around JIRA seems very similar to the existing
> > situation
> > > > > around Slack. A new community member currently must acquire a Slack
> > invite
> > > > > somehow, usually by emailing one of the lists. Mailing lists
> > themselves
> > > > > involve a signup process, though it may be possible to email
> > user/-zh/dev
> > > > > without first subscribing to the list.
> > > > >
> > > > > I have a -0 opinion on using GitHub Issues to manage JIRA
> > subscription
> > > > > access. It seems like a comical cascade of complexity. I’d prefer to
> > keep
> > > > > GitHub Issues available to us as a future alternative to JIRA for
> > project
> > > > > issue tracking. I agree with you that migrating away from JIRA will
> > be
> > > > > painful.
> > > > >
> > > > > I’m not a big fan of having separate issue systems for users vs.
> > devs. It
> > > > > emphasizes the idea that users and devs are different groups of
> > people with
> > > > > unequal voice in the project direction. I suppose it could be done
> > well,
> > > > > but I think it is more likely to be done poorly.
> > > > >
> > > > > I follow the Infra list, but only casually. It seems there’s a plan
> > to
> > > > > eventually adopt some Atlassian Cloud service, which has better
> > anti-spam
> > > > > controls. If that is on the roadmap, I’m content to let JIRA access
> > follow
> > > > > Slack access: using some existing outreach to request access.
> > Introducing a
> > > > > dedicated list would be fine with me as well.
> > > > >
> > > > > -n
> > > > >
> > > > > On Thu, Nov 24, 2022 at 03:19 Duo Zhang  wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > > > I've forwarded an announcement email from the INFRA team recently
> > > > > > about disabling the public sign ups for jira.a.o because of
> > spamming.
> > > > > > And now the rule is finally applied, when you open jira.a.o, you
> > can
> > > > > > see there is a gray bar on the top to tell you 'Public signup for
> > this
> > > > > > instance is disabled. Our Jira Guidelines page explains how to get
> > an
> > > > > > account.'.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > For me, I do not think it is 

Re: [DISCUSS] How to deal with the disabling of public sign ups for jira.a.o(enable github issues?)

[Bryan Beaudreault]

Should we have them sent to private@? Just thinking in terms of reducing
spam to users who put their email and full name on a public list.

One thought I had about bug tracking is whether we could use some sort of
github -> jira sync. I've seen them used before, where it automatically
syncs issues and comments between the two systems. It's definitely not
ideal, but maybe an option? I'm guessing it would require INFRA help.

On Thu, Dec 1, 2022 at 5:47 AM 张铎(Duo Zhang)  wrote:

> I've filed HBASE-27513 for changing the readme on github.
>
> At least let's reuse the existing mailing list for acquiring jira account.
>
> Thanks.
>
> 张铎(Duo Zhang)  于2022年11月29日周二 22:34写道：
>
> >
> > Bump and also send this to user@hbase.
> >
> > We need to find a way to deal with the current situation where
> > contributors can not create a Jira account on their own...
> >
> > At least, we need to change the readme on github page, web site and
> > also the ref guide to tell users how to acquire a jira account...
> >
> > Thanks.
> >
> > 张铎(Duo Zhang)  于2022年11月27日周日 22:06写道：
> > >
> > > For me, I think most developers already have a github account, so
> > > enabling it could help us get more feedback. For lots of younger
> > > Chinese developers, they rarely use email in their daily life...
> > > No doubt later we need to modify our readme on github. If we just let
> > > users go to github issues on the readme, they will soon open an issue
> > > there. But if we ask users to first send an email to a mailing list,
> > > for acquiring a jira account, and then wait for a PMC member to submit
> > > the request, and receive the email response, set up their account, and
> > > then they can finally open an issue on jira. I'm afraid lots of users
> > > will just give up, it is not very friendly...
> > >
> > > And I do not mean separate issue systems for users and devs. Users can
> > > still open jira issues or ask in the mailing list if they want, github
> > > issues is just another channel. If a user asks something in the
> > > mailing list and we think it is a bug, we will ask the user to file an
> > > issue or we will file an issue for it. It is just the same with github
> > > issues.
> > >
> > > Thanks.
> > >
> > > Nick Dimiduk  于2022年11月24日周四 15:44写道：
> > > >
> > > > This new situation around JIRA seems very similar to the existing
> situation
> > > > around Slack. A new community member currently must acquire a Slack
> invite
> > > > somehow, usually by emailing one of the lists. Mailing lists
> themselves
> > > > involve a signup process, though it may be possible to email
> user/-zh/dev
> > > > without first subscribing to the list.
> > > >
> > > > I have a -0 opinion on using GitHub Issues to manage JIRA
> subscription
> > > > access. It seems like a comical cascade of complexity. I’d prefer to
> keep
> > > > GitHub Issues available to us as a future alternative to JIRA for
> project
> > > > issue tracking. I agree with you that migrating away from JIRA will
> be
> > > > painful.
> > > >
> > > > I’m not a big fan of having separate issue systems for users vs.
> devs. It
> > > > emphasizes the idea that users and devs are different groups of
> people with
> > > > unequal voice in the project direction. I suppose it could be done
> well,
> > > > but I think it is more likely to be done poorly.
> > > >
> > > > I follow the Infra list, but only casually. It seems there’s a plan
> to
> > > > eventually adopt some Atlassian Cloud service, which has better
> anti-spam
> > > > controls. If that is on the roadmap, I’m content to let JIRA access
> follow
> > > > Slack access: using some existing outreach to request access.
> Introducing a
> > > > dedicated list would be fine with me as well.
> > > >
> > > > -n
> > > >
> > > > On Thu, Nov 24, 2022 at 03:19 Duo Zhang  wrote:
> > > >
> > > > > I've forwarded an announcement email from the INFRA team recently
> > > > > about disabling the public sign ups for jira.a.o because of
> spamming.
> > > > > And now the rule is finally applied, when you open jira.a.o, you
> can
> > > > > see there is a gray bar on the top to tell you 'Public signup for
> this
> > > > > instance is disabled. Our Jira Guidelines page explains how to get
> an
> > > > > account.'.
> > > > >
> > > > > For me, I do not think it is easy for us to completely drop jira
> since
> > > > > it is the issue tracker we have been using for years and all our
> > > > > release processes are bound to it. So at least we need to find a
> way
> > > > > to let our contributors know how to acquire a jira account.
> > > > >
> > > > > The hive project decided to use a dedicated mailing list for
> acquiring
> > > > > a jira account.
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> https://cwiki.apache.org/confluence/display/Hive/HowToContribute#HowToContribute-JIRA
> 
> > > > >
> > > > > For me, I think maybe we could enable github issues for our users
> and
> > > > > 

Re: [DISCUSS] How to deal with the disabling of public sign ups for jira.a.o(enable github issues?)

[Duo Zhang]

I've filed HBASE-27513 for changing the readme on github.

At least let's reuse the existing mailing list for acquiring jira account.

Thanks.

张铎(Duo Zhang)  于2022年11月29日周二 22:34写道：

>
> Bump and also send this to user@hbase.
>
> We need to find a way to deal with the current situation where
> contributors can not create a Jira account on their own...
>
> At least, we need to change the readme on github page, web site and
> also the ref guide to tell users how to acquire a jira account...
>
> Thanks.
>
> 张铎(Duo Zhang)  于2022年11月27日周日 22:06写道：
> >
> > For me, I think most developers already have a github account, so
> > enabling it could help us get more feedback. For lots of younger
> > Chinese developers, they rarely use email in their daily life...
> > No doubt later we need to modify our readme on github. If we just let
> > users go to github issues on the readme, they will soon open an issue
> > there. But if we ask users to first send an email to a mailing list,
> > for acquiring a jira account, and then wait for a PMC member to submit
> > the request, and receive the email response, set up their account, and
> > then they can finally open an issue on jira. I'm afraid lots of users
> > will just give up, it is not very friendly...
> >
> > And I do not mean separate issue systems for users and devs. Users can
> > still open jira issues or ask in the mailing list if they want, github
> > issues is just another channel. If a user asks something in the
> > mailing list and we think it is a bug, we will ask the user to file an
> > issue or we will file an issue for it. It is just the same with github
> > issues.
> >
> > Thanks.
> >
> > Nick Dimiduk  于2022年11月24日周四 15:44写道：
> > >
> > > This new situation around JIRA seems very similar to the existing 
> > > situation
> > > around Slack. A new community member currently must acquire a Slack invite
> > > somehow, usually by emailing one of the lists. Mailing lists themselves
> > > involve a signup process, though it may be possible to email user/-zh/dev
> > > without first subscribing to the list.
> > >
> > > I have a -0 opinion on using GitHub Issues to manage JIRA subscription
> > > access. It seems like a comical cascade of complexity. I’d prefer to keep
> > > GitHub Issues available to us as a future alternative to JIRA for project
> > > issue tracking. I agree with you that migrating away from JIRA will be
> > > painful.
> > >
> > > I’m not a big fan of having separate issue systems for users vs. devs. It
> > > emphasizes the idea that users and devs are different groups of people 
> > > with
> > > unequal voice in the project direction. I suppose it could be done well,
> > > but I think it is more likely to be done poorly.
> > >
> > > I follow the Infra list, but only casually. It seems there’s a plan to
> > > eventually adopt some Atlassian Cloud service, which has better anti-spam
> > > controls. If that is on the roadmap, I’m content to let JIRA access follow
> > > Slack access: using some existing outreach to request access. Introducing 
> > > a
> > > dedicated list would be fine with me as well.
> > >
> > > -n
> > >
> > > On Thu, Nov 24, 2022 at 03:19 Duo Zhang  wrote:
> > >
> > > > I've forwarded an announcement email from the INFRA team recently
> > > > about disabling the public sign ups for jira.a.o because of spamming.
> > > > And now the rule is finally applied, when you open jira.a.o, you can
> > > > see there is a gray bar on the top to tell you 'Public signup for this
> > > > instance is disabled. Our Jira Guidelines page explains how to get an
> > > > account.'.
> > > >
> > > > For me, I do not think it is easy for us to completely drop jira since
> > > > it is the issue tracker we have been using for years and all our
> > > > release processes are bound to it. So at least we need to find a way
> > > > to let our contributors know how to acquire a jira account.
> > > >
> > > > The hive project decided to use a dedicated mailing list for acquiring
> > > > a jira account.
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > https://cwiki.apache.org/confluence/display/Hive/HowToContribute#HowToContribute-JIRA
> > > >
> > > > For me, I think maybe we could enable github issues for our users and
> > > > contributors. They can ask questions and report issues there and if we
> > > > think it is a bug that needs to be fixed, we could open a jira issue
> > > > for it. And we could also create a special issue template for
> > > > acquiring jira accounts.
> > > >
> > > > Thoughts?
> > > >
> > > > Thanks.
> > > >