Re: move jclouds to the attic?
Forwarding with the jclouds users list address fixed On Mon, Jan 30, 2023 at 10:15 AM Ignasi Barrera wrote: > Hi! > > This is a call to action for everyone that expressed interest in helping > keep the project alive. > There has been a concrete request for help here: > https://lists.apache.org/thread/z7lg1y0rjp2xlkxhkkg76190tx2lznjt > > Who can take it? > > > > > > On Mon, Jan 30, 2023 at 6:26 AM Jean-Baptiste Onofré > wrote: > >> Fair enough. Thanks Andrew. >> >> Regards >> >> JB >> >> On Sun, Jan 29, 2023 at 9:07 AM Andrew Gaul wrote: >> > >> > Retiring the project to the attic is not my preferred outcome but I >> > think accurately captures the current state of affairs. Let's run a >> > final release then we can proceed with a formal discussion and vote. >> > >> > On Fri, Jan 13, 2023 at 08:44:27AM +0100, Jean-Baptiste Onofré wrote: >> > > Hi Geoff, >> > > >> > > To Geoff and others, happy new year :) >> > > >> > > Yes, I agree: it seems the bandwidth is limited. >> > > >> > > So, I think it makes sense to move jclouds into attic; and let other >> > > projects find an alternative (forking part of jclouds, finding a brand >> > > new alternative, ...). >> > > >> > > Regards >> > > JB >> > > >> > > On Thu, Jan 12, 2023 at 6:28 PM Geoff Macartney >> wrote: >> > > > >> > > > Hi JB >> > > > >> > > > It appears that we don't have the collective bandwidth to add new >> active >> > > > contributors to the project, so, sadly, moving jclouds to the attic >> does >> > > > seem to be the right thing to do. It will be up to each downstream >> project >> > > > to figure out what it wants to do in consequence. >> > > > >> > > > Belated Happy New Year to all. >> > > > >> > > > Regards >> > > > Geoff >> > > > >> > > > >> > > > >> > > > On Thu, 29 Dec 2022 at 05:38, Jean-Baptiste Onofré >> wrote: >> > > > >> > > > > Hi, >> > > > > >> > > > > Sorry to have been quiet, I'm "half off" for festive time ;) >> > > > > >> > > > > I'm still interested in helping maintain jclouds from a community >> > > > > standpoint. However, clearly, the current committers/PMC members >> don't >> > > > > want to be involved anymore. >> > > > > >> > > > > As most of the volunteers are not jclouds PMC members (I think >> I'm the >> > > > > only one), you have to accept the decision from PMC members. >> > > > > >> > > > > So, I see only three options for the projects using jclouds: >> > > > > 1. current PMC members accept to extend/expand the committer list >> (and >> > > > > PMC) to have new people volunteer to maintain jclouds, so >> projects can >> > > > > still use jclouds. I don't want to be pushy in this direction. >> It's >> > > > > important to have the long time PMC members, if they want to move >> > > > > jclouds in the attic, it's fair and we have to accept that. >> > > > > 2. replace jclouds with something else. That's probably the >> preferred >> > > > > approach, replacing jclouds directly with cloud providers APIs. >> > > > > 3. fork jclouds (or part of jclouds) in other projects (the part >> > > > > actually used in the project). For instance, we can imagine having >> > > > > code from jclouds moved/forked in brooklyn. >> > > > > >> > > > > My prefered option is probably 2, according to the discussion in >> this >> > > > > thread. >> > > > > >> > > > > Happy new year to all, >> > > > > Regards >> > > > > JB >> > > > > >> > > > > On Wed, Dec 28, 2022 at 9:11 PM Geoff Macartney < >> geom...@apache.org> >> > > > > wrote: >> > > > > > >> > > > > > Hi all, >> > > > > > >> > > > > > Hope you had a restful Christmas break. >> > > > > > >> > > > > > Andrew, thanks very much for these details, that is helpful to >> scope the >> > > > > > effort required to maintain jclouds. Of course what takes 10 >> hours for >> > > > > > Andrew, with his familiarity with jclouds, will take perhaps >> > > > > significantly >> > > > > > longer for those of us who are not yet familiar, even after an >> initial >> > > > > > period of learning. You'll each have your own estimations I'm >> sure. >> > > > > > >> > > > > > So - two questions to everyone who has expressed an interest in >> this >> > > > > > discussion (have I missed anyone?): >> > > > > > >> > > > > > Alex, Andrey, Enrico, Francois, JB, Juan, Iuliana, and anyone >> else for >> > > > > that >> > > > > > matter who hasn't yet spoken up. >> > > > > > >> > > > > > 1. Who among us feels strongly enough about their need for >> jclouds to >> > > > > > continue business as usual that they want to volunteer to >> commit to the >> > > > > > time it will take to learn it and then maintain it going forward >> > > > > (becoming >> > > > > > a committer)? This would not only include releases, as Andrew >> outlined, >> > > > > but >> > > > > > also security fixes, and maintenance as dependencies age (e.g. >> that gson >> > > > > > problem). It seems to me we need *at least* two volunteers for >> jclouds to >> > > > > > continue; three would be better. >> > > > > > >> > > > > > 2. Or do you agree with
Re: move jclouds to the attic?
Hi Andrew, Fair point. However, it seems we have a new "trend" around jclouds (according to this thread). I have some ideas to give a new "taint" to jclouds (it's the plan I will send asap). So, if we have a new "community" around to maintain and move forward on jclouds, I think it's worth to do it. Regards JB On Mon, Oct 10, 2022 at 3:03 PM Andrew Gaul wrote: > > jclouds development has slowed from 123 commits from 26 contributors in > 2018 to just 24 from 6 contributors in 2022. This is despite growing > downloads over the last 12 months from 50,000 to 80,000 for jclouds-core > alone. Unfortunately the number of active committers has shrunk and we > will soon lack quorum for future releases. This means that the project > must move to the Apache attic. > > Ideally the community could step up to sustain the project, e.g., > reviewing pull requests, fixing issues, responding to mailing list > queries, and eventually becoming committers themselves. Does anyone > have a multi-year interest in jclouds that wants to help out? > > If not, I will cut a final 2.6.0 release before retiring the project. > > -- > Andrew Gaul > http://gaul.org/
Re: move jclouds to the attic?
Oh, I also missed a reply to the dev@ list from Enrico Olivelli [1] Regards Geoff [1] https://lists.apache.org/thread/kwwzhm3xhc1d2kyd16vbzormwm5xhj2l On 2022/11/12 16:34:30 Geoff Macartney wrote: > Hello Andrew, > > I tried to reply to this thread but messed up the address (wrote "user@"), > however I did send the same email to dev@, see [1]. > > We in Apache Brooklyn would certainly be unhappy to see Jclouds move to the > attic. I have thought about it over the weekend and decided I would be > willing to offer to join the Jclouds PMC if that will be helpful [2]. I see > that Francois Papon (fpapon) has also volunteered [3], and JB is willing to > continue [4]. > > I do agree a formal [VOTE] email would be of value. Personally I would like > to see Jclouds successfully avoid the attic. > > Kind regards > Geoff Macartney > > [1] https://lists.apache.org/thread/9rlpdc5v9q2tpjcmk6bbxgf74pwkdgxy > [2] https://lists.apache.org/thread/qjxrflzts889g0m5gj2ny2493q6xm9sp > [3] https://lists.apache.org/thread/gv5g27c7qbx9rrd59fddcys5h5rckfzm > [4] https://lists.apache.org/thread/cbp9wmzvlgqnpqc1b5rr30c33t7trc74 > > On 2022/11/10 12:21:08 Andrew Gaul wrote: > > I will send out a formal [VOTE] after I run the potentially final 2.6.0 > > release. Note that no one from the community, including anyone from the > > Brooklyn project, volunteered to help maintain jclouds after a month's > > notice. I agree that this is an reversible situation but asking more > > from the existing maintainers is unlikely to succeed. > > > > On Wed, Nov 09, 2022 at 09:00:57PM +, Geoff Macartney wrote: > > > Oops, fixing address for user@jclouds.apache.org. > > > > > > > > > On Wed, 9 Nov 2022 at 20:57, Geoff Macartney wrote: > > > > > > > > Hello Andrew, and Jclouds PMC, > > > > > > > > I'm sorry to be so late in replying to this, I confess I had missed it > > > > when it was sent last month and only became aware of it today. > > > > > > > > Speaking as a member of the Apache Brooklyn PMC I must confess I am > > > > sad to hear this proposal. Jclouds is one of our most critical > > > > dependencies, and I would worry about the implications for Brooklyn if > > > > Jclouds moved to the Attic. I am worried in any case about the > > > > implications of the lower activity in the community, but that is > > > > another issue. > > > > > > > > I have been refreshing my memory about the PMC guidelines on moving to > > > > the Attic [1]. These note that > > > > > > > > "In summary, the only reason for a project to move to the Attic is > > > > lack of oversight due to an insufficient number of active PMC members" > > > > > > > > (the minimum being three), and that electing willing community members > > > > to the PMC would be the best way to keep it viable. If the worst comes > > > > to the worst "the Board can "reboot" a PMC by re-establishing it with > > > > a new or modified PMC". > > > > > > > > Perhaps it would be worth doing a formal [VOTE] poll within Jclouds > > > > PMC itself to see if at least three PMC members would be willing to > > > > continue to carry out that role? If not, maybe other options could be > > > > explored before deciding to move to the Attic, such as some community > > > > members joining the PMC. > > > > > > > > What do you think? > > > > > > > > Kind regards > > > > Geoff > > > > > > > > [1] https://apache.org/dev/pmc#move-to-attic > > > > > > > > > > > > On Mon, 10 Oct 2022 at 14:03, Andrew Gaul wrote: > > > > > > > > > > jclouds development has slowed from 123 commits from 26 contributors > > > > > in > > > > > 2018 to just 24 from 6 contributors in 2022. This is despite growing > > > > > downloads over the last 12 months from 50,000 to 80,000 for > > > > > jclouds-core > > > > > alone. Unfortunately the number of active committers has shrunk and > > > > > we > > > > > will soon lack quorum for future releases. This means that the > > > > > project > > > > > must move to the Apache attic. > > > > > > > > > > Ideally the community could step up to sustain the project, e.g., > > > > > reviewing pull requests, fixing issues, responding to mailing list > > > > > queries, and eventually becoming committers themselves. Does anyone > > > > > have a multi-year interest in jclouds that wants to help out? > > > > > > > > > > If not, I will cut a final 2.6.0 release before retiring the project. > > > > > > > > > > -- > > > > > Andrew Gaul > > > > > http://gaul.org/ > > > > -- > > Andrew Gaul > > http://gaul.org/ > > >
Re: move jclouds to the attic?
Hello Andrew, I tried to reply to this thread but messed up the address (wrote "user@"), however I did send the same email to dev@, see [1]. We in Apache Brooklyn would certainly be unhappy to see Jclouds move to the attic. I have thought about it over the weekend and decided I would be willing to offer to join the Jclouds PMC if that will be helpful [2]. I see that Francois Papon (fpapon) has also volunteered [3], and JB is willing to continue [4]. I do agree a formal [VOTE] email would be of value. Personally I would like to see Jclouds successfully avoid the attic. Kind regards Geoff Macartney [1] https://lists.apache.org/thread/9rlpdc5v9q2tpjcmk6bbxgf74pwkdgxy [2] https://lists.apache.org/thread/qjxrflzts889g0m5gj2ny2493q6xm9sp [3] https://lists.apache.org/thread/gv5g27c7qbx9rrd59fddcys5h5rckfzm [4] https://lists.apache.org/thread/cbp9wmzvlgqnpqc1b5rr30c33t7trc74 On 2022/11/10 12:21:08 Andrew Gaul wrote: > I will send out a formal [VOTE] after I run the potentially final 2.6.0 > release. Note that no one from the community, including anyone from the > Brooklyn project, volunteered to help maintain jclouds after a month's > notice. I agree that this is an reversible situation but asking more > from the existing maintainers is unlikely to succeed. > > On Wed, Nov 09, 2022 at 09:00:57PM +, Geoff Macartney wrote: > > Oops, fixing address for user@jclouds.apache.org. > > > > > > On Wed, 9 Nov 2022 at 20:57, Geoff Macartney wrote: > > > > > > Hello Andrew, and Jclouds PMC, > > > > > > I'm sorry to be so late in replying to this, I confess I had missed it > > > when it was sent last month and only became aware of it today. > > > > > > Speaking as a member of the Apache Brooklyn PMC I must confess I am > > > sad to hear this proposal. Jclouds is one of our most critical > > > dependencies, and I would worry about the implications for Brooklyn if > > > Jclouds moved to the Attic. I am worried in any case about the > > > implications of the lower activity in the community, but that is > > > another issue. > > > > > > I have been refreshing my memory about the PMC guidelines on moving to > > > the Attic [1]. These note that > > > > > > "In summary, the only reason for a project to move to the Attic is > > > lack of oversight due to an insufficient number of active PMC members" > > > > > > (the minimum being three), and that electing willing community members > > > to the PMC would be the best way to keep it viable. If the worst comes > > > to the worst "the Board can "reboot" a PMC by re-establishing it with > > > a new or modified PMC". > > > > > > Perhaps it would be worth doing a formal [VOTE] poll within Jclouds > > > PMC itself to see if at least three PMC members would be willing to > > > continue to carry out that role? If not, maybe other options could be > > > explored before deciding to move to the Attic, such as some community > > > members joining the PMC. > > > > > > What do you think? > > > > > > Kind regards > > > Geoff > > > > > > [1] https://apache.org/dev/pmc#move-to-attic > > > > > > > > > On Mon, 10 Oct 2022 at 14:03, Andrew Gaul wrote: > > > > > > > > jclouds development has slowed from 123 commits from 26 contributors in > > > > 2018 to just 24 from 6 contributors in 2022. This is despite growing > > > > downloads over the last 12 months from 50,000 to 80,000 for jclouds-core > > > > alone. Unfortunately the number of active committers has shrunk and we > > > > will soon lack quorum for future releases. This means that the project > > > > must move to the Apache attic. > > > > > > > > Ideally the community could step up to sustain the project, e.g., > > > > reviewing pull requests, fixing issues, responding to mailing list > > > > queries, and eventually becoming committers themselves. Does anyone > > > > have a multi-year interest in jclouds that wants to help out? > > > > > > > > If not, I will cut a final 2.6.0 release before retiring the project. > > > > > > > > -- > > > > Andrew Gaul > > > > http://gaul.org/ > > -- > Andrew Gaul > http://gaul.org/ >
Re: move jclouds to the attic?
I will send out a formal [VOTE] after I run the potentially final 2.6.0 release. Note that no one from the community, including anyone from the Brooklyn project, volunteered to help maintain jclouds after a month's notice. I agree that this is an reversible situation but asking more from the existing maintainers is unlikely to succeed. On Wed, Nov 09, 2022 at 09:00:57PM +, Geoff Macartney wrote: > Oops, fixing address for user@jclouds.apache.org. > > > On Wed, 9 Nov 2022 at 20:57, Geoff Macartney wrote: > > > > Hello Andrew, and Jclouds PMC, > > > > I'm sorry to be so late in replying to this, I confess I had missed it > > when it was sent last month and only became aware of it today. > > > > Speaking as a member of the Apache Brooklyn PMC I must confess I am > > sad to hear this proposal. Jclouds is one of our most critical > > dependencies, and I would worry about the implications for Brooklyn if > > Jclouds moved to the Attic. I am worried in any case about the > > implications of the lower activity in the community, but that is > > another issue. > > > > I have been refreshing my memory about the PMC guidelines on moving to > > the Attic [1]. These note that > > > > "In summary, the only reason for a project to move to the Attic is > > lack of oversight due to an insufficient number of active PMC members" > > > > (the minimum being three), and that electing willing community members > > to the PMC would be the best way to keep it viable. If the worst comes > > to the worst "the Board can "reboot" a PMC by re-establishing it with > > a new or modified PMC". > > > > Perhaps it would be worth doing a formal [VOTE] poll within Jclouds > > PMC itself to see if at least three PMC members would be willing to > > continue to carry out that role? If not, maybe other options could be > > explored before deciding to move to the Attic, such as some community > > members joining the PMC. > > > > What do you think? > > > > Kind regards > > Geoff > > > > [1] https://apache.org/dev/pmc#move-to-attic > > > > > > On Mon, 10 Oct 2022 at 14:03, Andrew Gaul wrote: > > > > > > jclouds development has slowed from 123 commits from 26 contributors in > > > 2018 to just 24 from 6 contributors in 2022. This is despite growing > > > downloads over the last 12 months from 50,000 to 80,000 for jclouds-core > > > alone. Unfortunately the number of active committers has shrunk and we > > > will soon lack quorum for future releases. This means that the project > > > must move to the Apache attic. > > > > > > Ideally the community could step up to sustain the project, e.g., > > > reviewing pull requests, fixing issues, responding to mailing list > > > queries, and eventually becoming committers themselves. Does anyone > > > have a multi-year interest in jclouds that wants to help out? > > > > > > If not, I will cut a final 2.6.0 release before retiring the project. > > > > > > -- > > > Andrew Gaul > > > http://gaul.org/ -- Andrew Gaul http://gaul.org/
Re: move jclouds to the attic?
Oops, fixing address for user@jclouds.apache.org. On Wed, 9 Nov 2022 at 20:57, Geoff Macartney wrote: > > Hello Andrew, and Jclouds PMC, > > I'm sorry to be so late in replying to this, I confess I had missed it > when it was sent last month and only became aware of it today. > > Speaking as a member of the Apache Brooklyn PMC I must confess I am > sad to hear this proposal. Jclouds is one of our most critical > dependencies, and I would worry about the implications for Brooklyn if > Jclouds moved to the Attic. I am worried in any case about the > implications of the lower activity in the community, but that is > another issue. > > I have been refreshing my memory about the PMC guidelines on moving to > the Attic [1]. These note that > > "In summary, the only reason for a project to move to the Attic is > lack of oversight due to an insufficient number of active PMC members" > > (the minimum being three), and that electing willing community members > to the PMC would be the best way to keep it viable. If the worst comes > to the worst "the Board can "reboot" a PMC by re-establishing it with > a new or modified PMC". > > Perhaps it would be worth doing a formal [VOTE] poll within Jclouds > PMC itself to see if at least three PMC members would be willing to > continue to carry out that role? If not, maybe other options could be > explored before deciding to move to the Attic, such as some community > members joining the PMC. > > What do you think? > > Kind regards > Geoff > > [1] https://apache.org/dev/pmc#move-to-attic > > > On Mon, 10 Oct 2022 at 14:03, Andrew Gaul wrote: > > > > jclouds development has slowed from 123 commits from 26 contributors in > > 2018 to just 24 from 6 contributors in 2022. This is despite growing > > downloads over the last 12 months from 50,000 to 80,000 for jclouds-core > > alone. Unfortunately the number of active committers has shrunk and we > > will soon lack quorum for future releases. This means that the project > > must move to the Apache attic. > > > > Ideally the community could step up to sustain the project, e.g., > > reviewing pull requests, fixing issues, responding to mailing list > > queries, and eventually becoming committers themselves. Does anyone > > have a multi-year interest in jclouds that wants to help out? > > > > If not, I will cut a final 2.6.0 release before retiring the project. > > > > -- > > Andrew Gaul > > http://gaul.org/
Re: move jclouds to the attic?
Quite sad to read. End of an era, at least for me Learned so much from this project and its community, I wouldn't be the same person if I hadn't been part of it. Thanks On Sun, Oct 16, 2022 at 10:18 PM cen wrote: > That is quite sad to hear but not entirely unexpected. > > I've been using jclouds on and off for the past 5 years, mainly for > cloud storage and some cloud VM management. > > Nowadays for the IaC use case, to me at least, the declarative tools > such as Terraform make more sense. > > > I would like to thank the jclouds community for making my life as > developer easier all these years. > > > Best regards > > On 10/10/2022 15:03, Andrew Gaul wrote: > > jclouds development has slowed from 123 commits from 26 contributors in > > 2018 to just 24 from 6 contributors in 2022. This is despite growing > > downloads over the last 12 months from 50,000 to 80,000 for jclouds-core > > alone. Unfortunately the number of active committers has shrunk and we > > will soon lack quorum for future releases. This means that the project > > must move to the Apache attic. > > > > Ideally the community could step up to sustain the project, e.g., > > reviewing pull requests, fixing issues, responding to mailing list > > queries, and eventually becoming committers themselves. Does anyone > > have a multi-year interest in jclouds that wants to help out? > > > > If not, I will cut a final 2.6.0 release before retiring the project. > > >
Re: move jclouds to the attic?
That is quite sad to hear but not entirely unexpected. I've been using jclouds on and off for the past 5 years, mainly for cloud storage and some cloud VM management. Nowadays for the IaC use case, to me at least, the declarative tools such as Terraform make more sense. I would like to thank the jclouds community for making my life as developer easier all these years. Best regards On 10/10/2022 15:03, Andrew Gaul wrote: jclouds development has slowed from 123 commits from 26 contributors in 2018 to just 24 from 6 contributors in 2022. This is despite growing downloads over the last 12 months from 50,000 to 80,000 for jclouds-core alone. Unfortunately the number of active committers has shrunk and we will soon lack quorum for future releases. This means that the project must move to the Apache attic. Ideally the community could step up to sustain the project, e.g., reviewing pull requests, fixing issues, responding to mailing list queries, and eventually becoming committers themselves. Does anyone have a multi-year interest in jclouds that wants to help out? If not, I will cut a final 2.6.0 release before retiring the project.
Re: move jclouds to the attic?
Hi Andrew, fair discussion. I think you are right: the numbers are speaking ;) +1 Regards JB On Mon, Oct 10, 2022 at 3:03 PM Andrew Gaul wrote: > > jclouds development has slowed from 123 commits from 26 contributors in > 2018 to just 24 from 6 contributors in 2022. This is despite growing > downloads over the last 12 months from 50,000 to 80,000 for jclouds-core > alone. Unfortunately the number of active committers has shrunk and we > will soon lack quorum for future releases. This means that the project > must move to the Apache attic. > > Ideally the community could step up to sustain the project, e.g., > reviewing pull requests, fixing issues, responding to mailing list > queries, and eventually becoming committers themselves. Does anyone > have a multi-year interest in jclouds that wants to help out? > > If not, I will cut a final 2.6.0 release before retiring the project. > > -- > Andrew Gaul > http://gaul.org/
Re: move jclouds to the attic?
Thanks for starting this thread Gaul! +1 to move the project to the Attic if there is no active community anymore, On Mon, Oct 10, 2022 at 3:03 PM Andrew Gaul wrote: > jclouds development has slowed from 123 commits from 26 contributors in > 2018 to just 24 from 6 contributors in 2022. This is despite growing > downloads over the last 12 months from 50,000 to 80,000 for jclouds-core > alone. Unfortunately the number of active committers has shrunk and we > will soon lack quorum for future releases. This means that the project > must move to the Apache attic. > > Ideally the community could step up to sustain the project, e.g., > reviewing pull requests, fixing issues, responding to mailing list > queries, and eventually becoming committers themselves. Does anyone > have a multi-year interest in jclouds that wants to help out? > > If not, I will cut a final 2.6.0 release before retiring the project. > > -- > Andrew Gaul > http://gaul.org/ >
