Re: Configuring a public JSPWiki instance for private use

[Paul Uszak]

Yes a definitive tutorial would be a beginning.  But herein lies a
problem.  Juergen, what are you talking about with your 2nd paragraph?  Non
of this is in the "Quick and simple install" section @
https://jspwiki-wiki.apache.org/Wiki.jsp?page=Getting%20Started. Do you see
what I mean?  I tried a fresh install yesterday and fell flat on my face at
step 3.  It just doesn't work whereas my SimpleSite experience was
wonderful.  Grr emoji.

With almost infinite undefined security configurations as you've just
illustrated, JSPWiki is equally vulnerable. It ships with anonymous users.
As soon as you turn it on, all the pages and comments get spammed so hard
that I get Java out of memory errors.  I've also documented an inability to
log out.  We cannot rely on container managed security because it doesn't
work easily with the wiki. If it used one or the other we'd be fine, but it
uses all of them all of the time.  Adding more JAAS functionality really
isn't the way forward.  That's another (enterprise) layer added on top .
It's clearly unsustainable and this is borne out by the adoption
statistics. I'm thinking of dropping it as well as it takes way too much
effort, even to simply reinstall. But as I opportunistically pointed out
earlier, there's scant alternative for a simplistic text based site.

If I had the requisite skills, my approach would be to fork it, strip it
and call it "Kitten".  A re architecture to a MVC pattern like Struts2
would be ideal as JSP is really a presentation technology isn't it?  That
would be a clear migration path and a lot of the code could be reused.
Pity I'm too thik...

On 6 October 2017 at 07:28, Jürgen Weber  wrote:

> Wouldn't a good tutorial be enough?
>
> Basically you just have to add a user to tomcat-users.xml, enable container
> managed security in web.xml and edit the policy (maybe we should include
> the default policy, that is more restricted and just works).
>
> Wordpress and friends have zillions of security holes, whereas we can rely
> mostly on proven container security.
>
> Juergen
>
> Am 06.10.2017 01:35 schrieb "David Vittor" :
>
> > I kind of feel both sides of the argument are right here. Even though
> > JSPWiki has a pretty great authentication system, the problem is it's not
> > very user friendly.
> >
> > The solution I think is to build some sort of an "admin" UI into JSP wiki
> > which lets users configure group/user permissions, and then saves these
> > into the back end jspwiki.policy file.
> >
> > I think that is one thing that Confluence did really well, even though
> the
> > backend is complex the front end is easy to manage. I think JSPWiki needs
> > to the same. There is actually in the code a "hidden" admin page, but
> it's
> > very buggy, and not sure how much additional work is needed to make this
> > public.
> >
> > The other solution might be to use the tomcat group/user configurations
> > with JAAS, but this probably needs better documentation, that is easy to
> > follow.
> >
> > Every person/organisation has different requirements for how they want
> > security to work. But that should not stop us making every effort to make
> > it more user friendly.
> >
> > Anyway they are my thoughts.
> >
> > Cheers,
> > David V
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > On Fri, Oct 6, 2017 at 10:01 AM, Paul Uszak 
> wrote:
> >
> > > "What is JSPWiki for?" This then is the question.  If we kneel before
> our
> > > god(s), hands on heart, lovingly think of our grandmothers and ask
> > > ourselves “Can JSPWiki effectively compete in the content management
> > > market” , what's the honest answer?  I think deep down in our souls
> it's
> > an
> > > emphatic “no”.
> > >
> > > I created a test Wordpress account last night in under five minutes. It
> > > looks great and you get free hosting.  Wix offers even more fantastical
> > > creativity when you enrol.  And xml editing wasn't needed.  Foswiki is
> > more
> > > powerful and polished, and used extensively.  Pretty tough competition.
> > >
> > > But the market isn’t crowded at the bottom.  It’s empty.  This isn’t a
> > daft
> > > strategy.  It’s the quintessential definition of strategic marketing.
> An
> > > analogous example is the tool Vi.  Vi is still cherished and
> extensively
> > > used, even today configuring state of the art IaaS deployments. Simple
> > can
> > > be successful.  I can see a need (which is where I came on board) for a
> > > plain and simple Wiki.  I use mine as a single user web site where it
> > acts
> > > as a content management system.
> > >
> > > Low system requirements, low bandwidth and most importantly, low
> > > configuration.  Zero configuration to start.  The details can be
> thrashed
> > > out later, but JSPWiki’s offering and place in the market must be
> > resolved
> > > for success.  I’ve posed this question before, but I’m not sure that
> > > there’s sufficient appetite for answering it sincerely.  C'est la vie.
> > >
> > >
> > > On 5 

JSPWiki mobile experience

[Jürgen Weber]

Hi,

anybody out there with good CSS skills, who could give JSPWiki a good
mobile experience?

I guess LeftMenue would have to go into a drop down menue.

https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/JSPWIKI-835

Juergen

Re: Configuring a public JSPWiki instance for private use

[Jürgen Weber]

Wouldn't a good tutorial be enough?

Basically you just have to add a user to tomcat-users.xml, enable container
managed security in web.xml and edit the policy (maybe we should include
the default policy, that is more restricted and just works).

Wordpress and friends have zillions of security holes, whereas we can rely
mostly on proven container security.

Juergen

Am 06.10.2017 01:35 schrieb "David Vittor" :

> I kind of feel both sides of the argument are right here. Even though
> JSPWiki has a pretty great authentication system, the problem is it's not
> very user friendly.
>
> The solution I think is to build some sort of an "admin" UI into JSP wiki
> which lets users configure group/user permissions, and then saves these
> into the back end jspwiki.policy file.
>
> I think that is one thing that Confluence did really well, even though the
> backend is complex the front end is easy to manage. I think JSPWiki needs
> to the same. There is actually in the code a "hidden" admin page, but it's
> very buggy, and not sure how much additional work is needed to make this
> public.
>
> The other solution might be to use the tomcat group/user configurations
> with JAAS, but this probably needs better documentation, that is easy to
> follow.
>
> Every person/organisation has different requirements for how they want
> security to work. But that should not stop us making every effort to make
> it more user friendly.
>
> Anyway they are my thoughts.
>
> Cheers,
> David V
>
>
>
>
> On Fri, Oct 6, 2017 at 10:01 AM, Paul Uszak  wrote:
>
> > "What is JSPWiki for?" This then is the question.  If we kneel before our
> > god(s), hands on heart, lovingly think of our grandmothers and ask
> > ourselves “Can JSPWiki effectively compete in the content management
> > market” , what's the honest answer?  I think deep down in our souls it's
> an
> > emphatic “no”.
> >
> > I created a test Wordpress account last night in under five minutes. It
> > looks great and you get free hosting.  Wix offers even more fantastical
> > creativity when you enrol.  And xml editing wasn't needed.  Foswiki is
> more
> > powerful and polished, and used extensively.  Pretty tough competition.
> >
> > But the market isn’t crowded at the bottom.  It’s empty.  This isn’t a
> daft
> > strategy.  It’s the quintessential definition of strategic marketing.  An
> > analogous example is the tool Vi.  Vi is still cherished and extensively
> > used, even today configuring state of the art IaaS deployments. Simple
> can
> > be successful.  I can see a need (which is where I came on board) for a
> > plain and simple Wiki.  I use mine as a single user web site where it
> acts
> > as a content management system.
> >
> > Low system requirements, low bandwidth and most importantly, low
> > configuration.  Zero configuration to start.  The details can be thrashed
> > out later, but JSPWiki’s offering and place in the market must be
> resolved
> > for success.  I’ve posed this question before, but I’m not sure that
> > there’s sufficient appetite for answering it sincerely.  C'est la vie.
> >
> >
> > On 5 October 2017 at 21:49, Jürgen Weber  wrote:
> >
> > > Jim,
> > >
> > > I also think the JSPWiki Authorization system is very good. The
> > > container looks after authentication, and the policies decide what the
> > > Container authenticated user is allowed too.
> > >
> > > Kudos to Andrew Jaquith (https://www.ecyrd.com/
> > JSPWiki/wiki/AndrewJaquith)
> > >
> > > Juergen
> > >
> > > https://jspwiki-wiki.apache.org/Wiki.jsp?page=
> > > JSPWikiContainerManagedAuthenticationInstallation
> > >
> > > 2017-10-05 10:39 GMT+02:00 Jim Willeke :
> > > > Try not to think of it as infinite complexities but rather infinite
> > > > Combinations. ;)
> > > >
> > > > And if you have a suggestion or a request for an improvement, I am
> sure
> > > > folks would listen.
> > > >
> > > > I do agree many of the JSPWiki pages could use some refactoring.
> > > > As with MOST open source projects the docs and code they are out of
> the
> > > > beyond the realm of understanding for "common folk".
> > > >
> > > > Oh, and on "And how can you even dream of having anonymous users on
> an
> > > > internet facing
> > > > wiki?"
> > > > Many are, even Wikipedia.
> > > >
> > > > And as far as "What is JSPWiki for?", I agree it is somewhat of a
> > > > middle-road undefined product.
> > > >
> > > >- Not for the Enterprise as there is AFIK, no method to keep the
> > sales
> > > >dept separate from the engineering dept. (Well no reasonable tools
> > to
> > > make
> > > >it happen)
> > > >- Not for the Casual user as there is too much Flexibility. (or
> > maybe
> > > >too much Complexity). Perhaps most Casual users would be better
> off
> > > with
> > > >a "hosted" solution. (https://www.blogger.com/ or something)
> > > >- Is not designed (or packaged) to be "dropped in" a SaaS like
> > Google
> > > >