Re: Fwd: Unsubscribe footer

2019-06-07 Thread OFBiz 

To whom it's sure to upset:

    "Ignoring and disregarding community is neither an "Apache Way" nor 
"morally right"."


Yes it is.

    "When a community opposes something that someone did and their reply
is "I had an itch" it sends a message: I don't care what you think and I'm
not wrong."

Wow, clearly.  Yep!  Glad you got that.

OFBiz as a product, sucks.  OFBiz as a project, is nowhere, and this is 
why.  The point of free and open software is that you do what you want 
to with it.


Now, I do see a difference between the software, and the "community."  
Operative word: community.  But consensus is not the goal of community, 
productive accomplishment is.  This is a project to produce and support 
OFBiz as a solution for accounting and resource management.  Not 
consensus.  Consensus is not our goal, competent accounting and resource 
management software is.


To loose your poop over the addition of a useful unsubscribe link in the 
email footer, well, seems to me you're rejecting a good idea because 
your fragile feelings are hurt.


You're embarrassing.


David Weeks
Information Developer


On 6/7/19 7:48 AM, Pierre Smits wrote:

To keep everyone interested in the loop.

-- Forwarded message -
From: Taher Alkhateeb 
Date: Fri, 7 Jun 2019 at 13:44
Subject: Re: Unsubscribe footer
To: Pierre Smits 


Ignoring and disregarding community is neither an "Apache Way" nor "morally
right". When a community opposes something that someone did and their reply
is "I had an itch" it sends a message: I don't care what you think and I'm
not wrong.

Typical behavior, I'm not surprised.

On Fri, Jun 7, 2019, 12:44 PM Pierre Smits  wrote:


First of all: IANAL, and for those who don't know what that means (or don't
do acronyms): I Am Not A Lawyer!

That being said, the question has been raised and needs to be answered:
Why?

The answer to that question is simple when having the Apache Way and its
vernacular in mind:

I experienced an itch, and, per good old Apache custom, I scratched it.


I acted not only with the various anti-spam legislations in mind ([1] may
provide a good starting point).

Some here may see it ethically wrong, but it felt morally right.

[1]

https://litmus.com/blog/the-ultimate-guide-to-international-email-law-infographic

Best regards,

Pierre Smits

*Apache Trafodion , Vice President*
*Apache Directory , PMC Member*
Apache Incubator , committer
*Apache OFBiz , contributor (without privileges)
since 2008*
Apache Steve , committer




On Thu, Jun 6, 2019 at 2:23 PM Michael Brohl 
wrote:


Thanks everyone,

the footers are removed by Infra on my request (with apologies) with
reference to this discussion (see [1]).

@Pierre: do you want to tell us why you think it's ok to act
independently of any community consensus or even discussion?

Thanks,

Michael

[1] https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/INFRA-18553

Am 06.06.19 um 06:37 schrieb Swapnil M Mane:

+1


- Best Regards,
Swapnil M Mane



On Wed, Jun 5, 2019 at 5:58 PM Taher Alkhateeb <

slidingfilame...@gmail.com>

wrote:


I would recommend removing all footers from all emails. It's not worth

the

extra noise for the rare occasions of some individuals not wanting to
unsubscribe.

I would also recommend that future actions with infra to be taken by a

PMC

member (after community approval) since they have access to necessary
resources and are hence best fit to guide infra on the needs of the
project.

On Wed, Jun 5, 2019, 11:09 AM Michael Brohl 
Hi all,

I've already informed Infra about this step taken without approvement
from the community, see [1]

Should I ask them to remove the footers?

Thanks,

Michael


[1] https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/INFRA-18553


Am 03.06.19 um 15:12 schrieb Michael Brohl:

I don't think that we need a technical enforcement, community code

of

conduct should be enough.

I don't see a problem with a longer signature from newcomers here

and

there, but those who participate more often should be able to

create a

shot signature which does not pollute the mail threads.

Thanks,

Michael

Am 03.06.19 um 13:11 schrieb Jacques Le Roux:

+1

But I can't see a way to enforce that. Apart maybe asking infra,

and

even then not sure it makes sense for "external writers" who have
those kinds of disclaimer messages at bottom

Jacques

Le 03/06/2019 à 12:36, Michael Brohl a écrit :

Good question, Taher.

This was done without any envolvement of others. I think we should
have consensus before taking any action towards infra.

Personally, I am not in favor of having another/additional
signatures. In the contrary, I would like to see them reduced to 1
or two lines to make them more readable.

Some bad example with a content/noise ratio of 1:7 lines can be

seen

below...

Regards,

Michael Brohl

ecomify GmbH - www.ecomify.de


Am 03.06.19 um 12:24 schrieb Taher

Re: Fwd: Unsubscribe footer

2019-06-07 Thread Michael Brohl 

+1 for Taher's statement.

The Apache way is about community, discussion and consensus.

Not caring about the project's community opinion but simply forcing 
through own ideas or acting on behalf of the project without any 
legitimation is exactly the opposite.


Regards,

Michael


Am 07.06.19 um 13:48 schrieb Pierre Smits:

To keep everyone interested in the loop.

-- Forwarded message -
From: Taher Alkhateeb 
Date: Fri, 7 Jun 2019 at 13:44
Subject: Re: Unsubscribe footer
To: Pierre Smits 


Ignoring and disregarding community is neither an "Apache Way" nor "morally
right". When a community opposes something that someone did and their reply
is "I had an itch" it sends a message: I don't care what you think and I'm
not wrong.

Typical behavior, I'm not surprised.

On Fri, Jun 7, 2019, 12:44 PM Pierre Smits  wrote:


First of all: IANAL, and for those who don't know what that means (or don't
do acronyms): I Am Not A Lawyer!

That being said, the question has been raised and needs to be answered:
Why?

The answer to that question is simple when having the Apache Way and its
vernacular in mind:

I experienced an itch, and, per good old Apache custom, I scratched it.


I acted not only with the various anti-spam legislations in mind ([1] may
provide a good starting point).

Some here may see it ethically wrong, but it felt morally right.

[1]

https://litmus.com/blog/the-ultimate-guide-to-international-email-law-infographic

Best regards,

Pierre Smits

*Apache Trafodion , Vice President*
*Apache Directory , PMC Member*
Apache Incubator , committer
*Apache OFBiz , contributor (without privileges)
since 2008*
Apache Steve , committer




On Thu, Jun 6, 2019 at 2:23 PM Michael Brohl 
wrote:


Thanks everyone,

the footers are removed by Infra on my request (with apologies) with
reference to this discussion (see [1]).

@Pierre: do you want to tell us why you think it's ok to act
independently of any community consensus or even discussion?

Thanks,

Michael

[1] https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/INFRA-18553

Am 06.06.19 um 06:37 schrieb Swapnil M Mane:

+1


- Best Regards,
Swapnil M Mane



On Wed, Jun 5, 2019 at 5:58 PM Taher Alkhateeb <

slidingfilame...@gmail.com>

wrote:


I would recommend removing all footers from all emails. It's not worth

the

extra noise for the rare occasions of some individuals not wanting to
unsubscribe.

I would also recommend that future actions with infra to be taken by a

PMC

member (after community approval) since they have access to necessary
resources and are hence best fit to guide infra on the needs of the
project.

On Wed, Jun 5, 2019, 11:09 AM Michael Brohl 
Hi all,

I've already informed Infra about this step taken without approvement
from the community, see [1]

Should I ask them to remove the footers?

Thanks,

Michael


[1] https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/INFRA-18553


Am 03.06.19 um 15:12 schrieb Michael Brohl:

I don't think that we need a technical enforcement, community code

of

conduct should be enough.

I don't see a problem with a longer signature from newcomers here

and

there, but those who participate more often should be able to

create a

shot signature which does not pollute the mail threads.

Thanks,

Michael

Am 03.06.19 um 13:11 schrieb Jacques Le Roux:

+1

But I can't see a way to enforce that. Apart maybe asking infra,

and

even then not sure it makes sense for "external writers" who have
those kinds of disclaimer messages at bottom

Jacques

Le 03/06/2019 à 12:36, Michael Brohl a écrit :

Good question, Taher.

This was done without any envolvement of others. I think we should
have consensus before taking any action towards infra.

Personally, I am not in favor of having another/additional
signatures. In the contrary, I would like to see them reduced to 1
or two lines to make them more readable.

Some bad example with a content/noise ratio of 1:7 lines can be

seen

below...

Regards,

Michael Brohl

ecomify GmbH - www.ecomify.de


Am 03.06.19 um 12:24 schrieb Taher Alkhateeb:

Why was this done without community agreement first?

On Mon, Jun 3, 2019 at 8:59 AM Pierre Smits
 wrote:

The unsubscribe footer is now in play for mail to dev@ofbiz.a.o

Best regards,

Pierre Smits







smime.p7s
Description: S/MIME Cryptographic Signature

Fwd: Unsubscribe footer

2019-06-07 Thread Pierre Smits 
To keep everyone interested in the loop.

-- Forwarded message -
From: Taher Alkhateeb 
Date: Fri, 7 Jun 2019 at 13:44
Subject: Re: Unsubscribe footer
To: Pierre Smits 


Ignoring and disregarding community is neither an "Apache Way" nor "morally
right". When a community opposes something that someone did and their reply
is "I had an itch" it sends a message: I don't care what you think and I'm
not wrong.

Typical behavior, I'm not surprised.

On Fri, Jun 7, 2019, 12:44 PM Pierre Smits  wrote:

> First of all: IANAL, and for those who don't know what that means (or don't
> do acronyms): I Am Not A Lawyer!
>
> That being said, the question has been raised and needs to be answered:
> Why?
>
> The answer to that question is simple when having the Apache Way and its
> vernacular in mind:
>
> I experienced an itch, and, per good old Apache custom, I scratched it.
>
>
> I acted not only with the various anti-spam legislations in mind ([1] may
> provide a good starting point).
>
> Some here may see it ethically wrong, but it felt morally right.
>
> [1]
>
> https://litmus.com/blog/the-ultimate-guide-to-international-email-law-infographic
>
> Best regards,
>
> Pierre Smits
>
> *Apache Trafodion , Vice President*
> *Apache Directory , PMC Member*
> Apache Incubator , committer
> *Apache OFBiz , contributor (without privileges)
> since 2008*
> Apache Steve , committer


>
>
> On Thu, Jun 6, 2019 at 2:23 PM Michael Brohl 
> wrote:
>
> > Thanks everyone,
> >
> > the footers are removed by Infra on my request (with apologies) with
> > reference to this discussion (see [1]).
> >
> > @Pierre: do you want to tell us why you think it's ok to act
> > independently of any community consensus or even discussion?
> >
> > Thanks,
> >
> > Michael
> >
> > [1] https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/INFRA-18553
> >
> > Am 06.06.19 um 06:37 schrieb Swapnil M Mane:
> > > +1
> > >
> > >
> > > - Best Regards,
> > > Swapnil M Mane
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > On Wed, Jun 5, 2019 at 5:58 PM Taher Alkhateeb <
> > slidingfilame...@gmail.com>
> > > wrote:
> > >
> > >> I would recommend removing all footers from all emails. It's not worth
> > the
> > >> extra noise for the rare occasions of some individuals not wanting to
> > >> unsubscribe.
> > >>
> > >> I would also recommend that future actions with infra to be taken by a
> > PMC
> > >> member (after community approval) since they have access to necessary
> > >> resources and are hence best fit to guide infra on the needs of the
> > >> project.
> > >>
> > >> On Wed, Jun 5, 2019, 11:09 AM Michael Brohl  >
> > >> wrote:
> > >>
> > >>> Hi all,
> > >>>
> > >>> I've already informed Infra about this step taken without approvement
> > >>> from the community, see [1]
> > >>>
> > >>> Should I ask them to remove the footers?
> > >>>
> > >>> Thanks,
> > >>>
> > >>> Michael
> > >>>
> > >>>
> > >>> [1] https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/INFRA-18553
> > >>>
> > >>>
> > >>> Am 03.06.19 um 15:12 schrieb Michael Brohl:
> >  I don't think that we need a technical enforcement, community code
> of
> >  conduct should be enough.
> > 
> >  I don't see a problem with a longer signature from newcomers here
> and
> >  there, but those who participate more often should be able to
> create a
> >  shot signature which does not pollute the mail threads.
> > 
> >  Thanks,
> > 
> >  Michael
> > 
> >  Am 03.06.19 um 13:11 schrieb Jacques Le Roux:
> > > +1
> > >
> > > But I can't see a way to enforce that. Apart maybe asking infra,
> and
> > > even then not sure it makes sense for "external writers" who have
> > > those kinds of disclaimer messages at bottom
> > >
> > > Jacques
> > >
> > > Le 03/06/2019 à 12:36, Michael Brohl a écrit :
> > >> Good question, Taher.
> > >>
> > >> This was done without any envolvement of others. I think we should
> > >> have consensus before taking any action towards infra.
> > >>
> > >> Personally, I am not in favor of having another/additional
> > >> signatures. In the contrary, I would like to see them reduced to 1
> > >> or two lines to make them more readable.
> > >>
> > >> Some bad example with a content/noise ratio of 1:7 lines can be
> seen
> > >> below...
> > >>
> > >> Regards,
> > >>
> > >> Michael Brohl
> > >>
> > >> ecomify GmbH - www.ecomify.de
> > >>
> > >>
> > >> Am 03.06.19 um 12:24 schrieb Taher Alkhateeb:
> > >>> Why was this done without community agreement first?
> > >>>
> > >>> On Mon, Jun 3, 2019 at 8:59 AM Pierre Smits
> > >>>  wrote:
> >  The unsubscribe footer is now in play for mail to dev@ofbiz.a.o
> > 
> >  Best regards,
> > 
> >  Pierre Smits
> > 
> > >>>
> >
> >
>
-- 
Sent from my phon