Re: Why did you choose DragonFly?
Samuel J. Greear wrote: This mail is intended for the infrequent responders and lurkers on the list just as much as the regular posters. What has drawn you to use the DragonFly BSD operating system and/or participate in its development by following this list? Technical features, methodologies, something about the community? I suspect the HAMMER filesystem to be the popular choice, but what other features affect or do you see affecting your day to day life as an administrator, developer, or [insert use case here], now or in the future? Thanks in advance for your response. Best, Sam First some history. I started with the project very early on, nearly from Matts initial email to the freebd mailing lists announcing the project. At the time doing anything with FreeBSD to me, just seemed like slogging through mud. In all fairness FreeBSD was going through some changes back then. However working on dfly was simply fun. No arguments, no silliness about we have always done it this way, and will always do it this way regardless of how whatever your idea is performs in practice. The first argument that I remember with dfly was a minor one, and the solution, in this case was both improvements where committed. It became apperant very early that whatever the topic the merit of what was suggested was what decisions where going to based on. Now on to some more subtle points:
Re: Why did you choose DragonFly?
On Tue, Sep 21, 2010 at 1:03 AM, Samuel J. Greear s...@evilcode.net wrote: What has drawn you to use the DragonFly BSD operating system and/or participate in its development by following this list? For me it was a Journey in search of the right software for the Job I had in my hands. I first heard about BSD itself when I was learning Windows NT at a local institute because of my father's compulsion. I had flung my BTech exams due to riotious living and having memory loss etc due to hashimotto. I went to this institute not because I liked it but so that there will not be further criticism about the church I started attending during those days to get up and walk a clean life from the mess I made out of it. Read in a magazine that hotmail ran on FreeBSD initially. Also yahoo runs FreeBSD. In India at that time ( 2000 ) Internet was a rare thing for common people and I could not learn much about BDSs. I was given a oppourtunity to go and learn in a newly started IT firm which had 4 computers and 3 programmers working in PHP. I was told to manage the Windows 2000 Server that was there which was the development machine running apache/php/mysql. I soon migrated the Apache/PHP/Mysql stuff to Redhat then Mandrake then PCQLinux and by about Redhat9 I was fed up with it and switched to Debian. After an year or so we had around 7-8 programmers working on PHP and I was taken in the rolls of the company. Slowly I replaced the Windows 2000 firewall with OpenBSD and PF and wrote this. http://undeadly.org/cgi?action=articlesid=20041013190823 Later a similar BTech flunk guy ( he passed later ) from BSD-India mailingist joined to work with me :-) We replaced the Windows 2000 Domain Controller with FreeBSD and Samba 3.x Slowly the company started growing and we had more people and I started administring our client's Servers on the Internet. We had a Debian Backup Server with backuppc running on it for backups and wanted to use 120GB hard disks on it at a later stage but No Linux or BSD distros would detect the disks except OpenBSD at that time. So I installed OpenBSD with RAIDFRAME and got a kind soul in the openbsd-misc mailinng list make a backuppc port for me. I loved OpenBSD because it was very faithful for every thing we needed. But there was a problem after an unclean shut down it took a lot of time for fsck and riad parity checks of the mirrored disks. The RAID parity checks could be run in the background so the problem was partially solved. OpenBSD served us well and for any purpose OpenSBD it is my first choice even now. It survived many freequent power failures and still kept the Data safe. I started hating FreeBSD after a portupgrade broke in between and well it was trouble :-( OpenBSD booted faster, had /etc centralized and detected any hardware I presented to it. So when we had to upgrade our backup server's hard disk from 120GB to 500GB 1) FreeBSD was not a choice though ZFS was persuasive 2) OpenBSD/RAIDFRAME/fsck was not a choice 3) Linux/RAID/fsck was not a choice I new about DragonFly BSD, had read about hammer but was not sure any one was using it in production so a google search brought me to http://leaf.dragonflybsd.org/mailarchive/users/2009-06/msg00042.html and I asked the list http://leaf.dragonflybsd.org/mailarchive/users/2009-06/msg00050.html So I tried this in a qemu :-) http://leaf.dragonflybsd.org/mailarchive/users/2009-06/msg00062.html Matt jumped ni and Gave me ideas and I implemented it. Now I just love the DragonFly OS due to the following features 1) Rolling release :-) Development branch is stable enough for me. If I keep an eye on the [Heads UP] mails sent to the DragonFly users list I can avoid troubles. There is no need for every six months major upgrades. Just upgrade little by little weekly or monthly as I have time. 2) 2 500GB disks but no fsck after unclean shutdown. It is pure pleasue to show Linux admins how I can pull the plug and get the OS and file system up and running in less than a minute ;-) 3) Sufficient Redundancy without RAID parity checks Matt Introduced me to mirroring and I could do away with RAID completely in my setup. The Data are kept in a Hammer Partition/Volume ( Backup1 ) on the first disk. PFSes are made with differrent snapshoting and prune-min settings according to the storage needs. These PFSes are mirrored using ( mirror-stream ) on to a Hammer Partition/Volume ( Backup2 ) on the second disk. 4) Insant every 5 mins backup for Windows/Mac OS X/BSD/Linux/Solaris users. Just drag and drop the files you need :-) This part was the greatest success in the company among developers. They have become very relaxed about backups now :-) I wrote this but due to my lack of WiKi editing knowledge it still needs to be refined. http://www.dragonflybsd.org/docs/real_time_backup_server_for_microsoft_windows__44___linux__44___bsd_and_mac_os_x_clients/ I not only share www files but also mysql sql dump files like this every hour. So now
Re: Why did you choose DragonFly?
On Fri, Sep 24, 2010 at 7:12 PM, Justin C. Sherrill jus...@shiningsilence.com wrote: On Fri, September 24, 2010 6:28 am, Siju George wrote: What I am looking forward to? 1) CARP implementation whereby I can run 2 systems on the same IP 2) Qemu support so I can make DragonFly my main Desktop hosting many virtual machines in which I experiment new stuff Qemu builds and runs on DragonFly - 0.12.4 was building for pkgsrc-2010Q2. You should be able to use it now with a pkg_radd. Oh thanks :-) Hope I will get sounds from the VMs too on my hardware. So Iculd run a Linux VM for flash ;-) --Siju
Re: Why did you choose DragonFly?
On Fri, September 24, 2010 9:49 am, Siju George wrote: Oh thanks :-) Hope I will get sounds from the VMs too on my hardware. So Iculd run a Linux VM for flash ;-) I think multimedia/libflashsupport will work, so you can get your browser on DragonFly running it. I had success with it some time back, though it was finicky.
Re: Why did you choose DragonFly?
: :On Monday 20 September 2010 16:51:47 PrzemysÅaw PaweÅczyk wrote: : Why _no one_ answered my question concerning DF BSD contained in my : post: : http://leaf.dragonflybsd.org/mailarchive/users/2010-07/msg00091.html : :I don't know why no one answered, but I didn't answer because I don't know :much about SMP and don't have any SMP boxes. : :Pierre It was kind of a kitchen sink question. We aren't really in the business of running benchmarks against a laundry list of other operating systems. SMP works just fine. HAMMER is not ZFS. You have to play with it yourself to determine if it meets your needs. -Matt Matthew Dillon dil...@backplane.com
Re: Why did you choose DragonFly?
Samuel J. Greear schrieb: This mail is intended for the infrequent responders and lurkers on the list just as much as the regular posters. What has drawn you to use the DragonFly BSD operating system and/or participate in its development by following this list? Technical features, methodologies, something about the community? I suspect the HAMMER filesystem to be the popular choice, but what other features affect or do you see affecting your day to day life as an administrator, developer, or [insert use case here], now or in the future? Initially I stumbled over DragonFly because I was interested in investigating PostgreSQL Performance on different Filesystems. So at some point I read about HAMMER and DragonFly was brought back to my memory. I have been using FreeBSD since 4.x and iirc I was also around when DragonFly forked but I didn't follow it around that time. When trying to setup DragonFly for PostgreSQL benchmarking I ran in to one or the other obstacle which made me go to #dragonflybsd... and that is where I got stuck :-) People on #dragonflybsd where just nice and helpfull and very open to someone as new as me so I sticked around for a while and things lead to another. I started working on something I encoutered a problem with (I think it was some mount_hammer error mesage) and provided a patch which was quickly excepted. After some more work I was granted a commit bit after only 3 months or so. I always wanted to contribute to OpenSource (in one or the other way) but in a lot of project the hurdles are just too high for someone like me who is not a professional programmer. Not so in this project, that is why I am here basically :). All very soft skill reasons :-)... But I like all the features of DragonFly,too, especially the updated PF in upcoming 2.8, awesome ;-). But I have to say that for me those came as a second step, as I learned about them more and more when I was already a member of the community (still have to really figure out vkernels btw). Jan
Re: Why did you choose DragonFly?
On Mon, 20 Sep 2010 13:33:28 -0600 Samuel J. Greear s...@evilcode.net wrote: This mail is intended for the infrequent responders and lurkers on the list just as much as the regular posters. What has drawn you to use the DragonFly BSD operating system and/or Originally it looked like a breath of fresh air compared to FreeBSD-5 which was looking pretty scary. The clustering goals were (and still are) also attractive to me. Hammer wasn't around when I got interested in DragonFly - but it's certainly a good reason to stick around. I look forward to the day when my main data store is held on two machines using multi-master Hammer mirrors and I can take down either one without bothering anything that is using the data. -- Steve O'Hara-Smith | Directable Mirror Arrays C:WIN | A better way to focus the sun The computer obeys and wins.|licences available see You lose and Bill collects. |http://www.sohara.org/
Re: Why did you choose DragonFly?
On Mon, Sep 20, 2010 at 01:33:28PM -0600, Samuel J. Greear wrote: What has drawn you to use the DragonFly BSD operating system and/or participate in its development by following this list? Technical features, methodologies, something about the community? I suspect the HAMMER filesystem to be the popular choice, but what other features affect or do you see affecting your day to day life as an administrator, developer, or [insert use case here], now or in the future? I was a FreeBSD user back in 2003; I have seen the announce of DragonFly in one of the mailing lists and watched its progress from afar. I liked some of the early ideas. A new SMP implementation based on the real hardware topology was full of performance promises and since I have a small historical interest in VAXclusters and VMS, I found the SSI goal really appealing. I never really used DragonFly before 1.6, when one of my FreeBSD machines kept crashing (known kernel bug) and I had to find a lasting solution. Since then, I have gradually put DragonFly on production machines, one at a time. I now use it on customer-facing servers and do not regret it. You hear very fast when a mail server is down. What really impressed me is the stability of the system and Hammer. I've never lost any data with DragonFly; even in the worst cases it is possible to synchronize your work with a known good historical state of the filesystem and carry on. The good atmosphere of the community is also a big plus imho. I have not had to refrain from reporting bugs for fear of beeing chastised and most of them are fixed rapidly. I really can see constant progress. So far so good :) -- Francois Tigeot
Re: Why did you choose DragonFly?
On Mon, Sep 20, 2010 at 01:33:28PM -0600, Samuel J. Greear wrote: What has drawn you to use the DragonFly BSD operating system and/or participate in its development by following this list? Technical features, methodologies, something about the community? I suspect the HAMMER filesystem to be the popular choice, but what other features affect or do you see affecting your day to day life as an administrator, developer, or [insert use case here], now or in the future? I've used FreeBSD at work since 4.11. I switched from Linux. I came across the DF homepage and found it interesting, then joined all the mailing lists and never left. What I enjoyed most over the years is the technical discussions. I very much like the openness of the developer team to try new ideas, and general politeness to users. Not that using DragonFly has always been a smooth ride, especially at the start I had all kinds of issues with it which progressively got fixed, but the community has kept me in and Im glad because its been a worthy ride since 1.2 when I begun using it. In particular I'd like to thank Justin for running the blog its one of the most visited websites for me over the last 5 or so years. Petr
Re: Why did you choose DragonFly?
Samuel J. Greear s...@evilcode.net wrote: What has drawn you to use the DragonFly BSD operating system and/or participate in its development by following this list? Technical features, methodologies, something about the community? First of all, I'm a FreeBSD user (since 2.0.5), and I'm not using DragonFly BSD for production. However, I installed it in a qemu instance for playing because I'm interested in it from a technical point of view. When DragonFly BSD forked from FreeBSD in the 4.x days, I was fascinated by Matt's announcement and the declaration of goals, in particular his SSI vision. At that time, I thought that a working SSI cluster based on BSD technologies would be the coolest thing on earth. So I subscribed to the DF mailing lists (or rather, to the NNTP groups) and started to watch the game. Another incentive was Matt's plan to implement a message- passing system inside the kernel, similar to what is used in AmigaOS. Having an Amiga background myself -- just like Matt -- I found this very interesting. I was curious how it would work out. Over the years, DragonFly BSD grew several features that were not present in FreeBSD, and which I found useful or interesting, such as variant symlinks (I still miss them very much in FreeBSD), process checkpointing (extremely cool, but needs some improvement to make it work better in practice), UFS journal streams, swapcache, and of course vkernel and HAMMER. Today I think that the SSI goal has become less important. The cluster hype has diminished and been partially replaced by the cloud hype. Today, it is extremely important to have excellent SMP scalability. Multi-core systems are common, my desktop at home is a 6-core AMD Phenom II X6 which costs less than 200 Euros. You can buy x86 machines with 4 CPU sockets, 8 cores each, plus hyperthreading, so you get a 64-way SMP system. I think DragonFly BSD doesn't support these (yet), but don't worry, FreeBSD doesn't either. ;-) (They just upped the limit to 32-way in 9-current.) Oracle/Sun introduced a 128-way Sparc processor last week (16 cores with 8 threads each), and you can put 4 of those into a system ... The trend is obvious: Increasing the CPU clockrates is getting more and more difficult, so the engineers start to increase the number of cores. Software has to keep up with the hardware development, and that's especially true for operating systems. FreeBSD and DragonFly BSD have chosen somewhat different routes towards improving SMP scalability, but I think they are both successful. Given the apparent fact that DF seems to achieve similar speed with much lower complexity, I'm even tempted to say that DF is more successful than FreeBSD in this regard ... But I'm a FreeBSD committer, so I'm not allowed to actually say that. ;-) (Just kidding.) Best regards Oliver -- Oliver Fromme, secnetix GmbH Co. KG, Marktplatz 29, 85567 Grafing b. M. Handelsregister: Registergericht Muenchen, HRA 74606, Geschäftsfuehrung: secnetix Verwaltungsgesellsch. mbH, Handelsregister: Registergericht Mün- chen, HRB 125758, Geschäftsführer: Maik Bachmann, Olaf Erb, Ralf Gebhart FreeBSD-Dienstleistungen, -Produkte und mehr: http://www.secnetix.de/bsd
Re: Why did you choose DragonFly?
:Today I think that the SSI goal has become less important. :The cluster hype has diminished and been partially :replaced by the cloud hype. Today, it is extremely :important to have excellent SMP scalability. Multi-core :systems are common, my desktop at home is a 6-core AMD :Phenom II X6 which costs less than 200 Euros. You can :buy x86 machines with 4 CPU sockets, 8 cores each, plus :... I think these are all good points. The evolution of SMP has been highly predictable, but perhaps what has not been quite that predictable is the enormous improvement in off-cpu interconnect bandwidth over the last few years as PCI-e has really pushed into all aspects of chip design. These days you can't even find a FPGA that doesn't have support for numerous serial gigabit links going off-chip. Serial has clearly won over parallel. This enormous improvement is one of the many reasons why something like swapcache/SSD is not only viable on today's system, but almost a necessity if one wishes to squeeze out every last drop of performance from a machine. It used to be that one could get a good chunk of cpu power in a consumer machine but not really be able to match servers on bus bandwidth. That simply is not the case any more. Now the cheap sweet-spot on the consumer curve has well over 50GBits of off-chip bandwidth. 4-8 SATA ports running at 3-6 GBits each, plus another 24+ PCI-e lanes on top of that. It is getting busy out there. The only real advantage a 'server' has now is memory interconnect and even that is being whittled away now that one can stuff 16GB+ of ECC ram into a 4-slot consumer box. The next big improvement will probably wind up being ultra-high-speed memory interconnects. We would have it already if not for RamBus and their double-blasted patent lawsuits. And after that the links are going to start running at light frequencies, which Intel I think has already demonstrated to some degree. -- I do think I have to modulate my SSI goal a bit. The cluster filesystem is still hot... I absolutely want something to replace NFSv3 that is fully cache coherent across all clients and servers, and it *IS NOT* NFSv4. Adding a quorum protocol capability on top of that to create distributed filesystem redundancy is also still in the cards. The important point here is that I do not believe anything but a network abstraction can create the levels of reliability needed to have truely distributed redundancy for filesystems. The Single-image abstraction that RAID provides isn't good enough because it doesn't deal with bugs in the filesystem code itself or the corruption from software bugs in today's complex kernels (in general). Actual SSI might not be in the cards any more. It is virtually impossible to do it at the vnode, device, and process level without a complete rewrite of nearly the entire system. Sure one can migrate whole VM's, but that is more a workaround and less a core solution. However, with a fully cache coherent remote filesystem solution we can actually get very close to SSI-like operation. If a shared mmap of a file across a cache coherent remote mount is made possible then process migration or at least shared memory spaces across physical machines can certainly be made possible too. -- I'm a bit loath to extend the per-cpu globaldata concept beyond 64 cpus (for 64-bit builds) for numerous reasons, not the least of which being that the kernel per-cpu caches don't scale well when the memory:ncpus ratio drops too low. We know this is a problem already for per-thread caches in pthreads implementations for user programs which is why our nmalloc implementation in libc tries to be very careful to not leave too much stuff sitting around in a per-thread cache that other threads can't get to. There is an opportunity here too. There is no real need to support more than 64 *KERNEL* threads on a massively hyperthreaded cpu when just 2 per actual cpu (judged by the L1 cache topology) will yield the same kernel performance. The solution is obvious to me... multiplex the N hyperthreads per real cpu into a single globaldata structure and interlock with a spinlock. Or, alternatively, have no more than two globaldata entities per real cpu (say in a situation where one has 4 hyperthreads or 8 hyperthreads). Spinlocks contending only between the hyperthreads associated with the same cpu have an overhead cost of almost nothing. Another possible solution is to not actually transition the extra hyperthreads into the kernel core but instead hold them at the userspace-kernelspace border and have only dedicated kernel hyperthreads run the kernel core. The user threads would just stall at the edge until the real
Re: Why did you choose DragonFly?
I enjoyed working with pre Sys-V SunOS. I blame taking the C compiler out of the distro, the giving in to peer pressure to move to Sys-V, and the decade lost in the pipe dream of replacing Windows with platform-independent Java for the turning of Sun Microsystems into an overpriced chair for Larry. FreeBSD had a similar syntax to SunOS, and 2.0.5R included a driver for my Adaptec 2940, where Slackware did not. (Downloading 240k chunks of OS to 1.2MB floppies, over 56k frame relay?) FreeBSD-Questions was a great place to learn. (ftp.cdrom.com was impressive) Around the time progress on soft updates began to slow, it became clear (to me at least) not much would happen with getting FreeBSD out from under the big giant lock. Watching various scheduler or other improvements get trampled by NIH, made it clear the bureaucracy was moribund, and it was time for a change. The Walnut Creek / Wind River / BSDi crap did nothing to create good feelings either. Matt's mythical connection with Dice, Backplane, and the fact that he's beholding to no one, all help to put the OS in a category by itself. I really don't know of any other principal architect/developer who is as active, responsive, technically progressive, or nice to chat with as Matt. Variant symlinks smile. A filesystem with richer semantics than UFS? grin Good stuff. Back to lurking, [RC] On Sep 20, 2010, at 12:33 PM, Samuel J. Greear wrote: This mail is intended for the infrequent responders and lurkers on the list just as much as the regular posters. What has drawn you to use the DragonFly BSD operating system and/or participate in its development by following this list? Technical features, methodologies, something about the community? I suspect the HAMMER filesystem to be the popular choice, but what other features affect or do you see affecting your day to day life as an administrator, developer, or [insert use case here], now or in the future? Thanks in advance for your response. Best, Sam
Re: Why did you choose DragonFly?
I got interested in DragonFly early on because of the stated goals. It was exciting to see a BSD project that was really trying to advance the kernel. I started replacing more and more of my machines with DF until I had only one holdout, an OpenBSD machine for pf, and then that one got replaced too when the DragonFly's pf implementation improved. I can't say enough about how awesome HAMMER is and vkernel too. I also very much appreciate the people here. For the most part, you guys are light years beyond me in UNIX knowledge, yet you take the trouble to share that knowledge. I learn a lot just following the mailing lists. Are you going to throw a party when the BGL is completely gone? I'll bring the beer. :-) Tim On Mon, Sep 20, 2010 at 12:33 PM, Samuel J. Greear s...@evilcode.net wrote: This mail is intended for the infrequent responders and lurkers on the list just as much as the regular posters. What has drawn you to use the DragonFly BSD operating system and/or participate in its development by following this list? Technical features, methodologies, something about the community? I suspect the HAMMER filesystem to be the popular choice, but what other features affect or do you see affecting your day to day life as an administrator, developer, or [insert use case here], now or in the future? Thanks in advance for your response. Best, Sam
Re: Why did you choose DragonFly?
Since the very beginning, the goals are high: async messaging, lwkt, SSI. Later came HAMMER, dma, vkernels. Waiting eagerly for recent locking changes to stablize (and to upgrade my home server) And, sure, for smooth operation on my 2.4GHz P4 with 512MB RAM (ok, it has 1.5Gig for a month or so) SMP and SSD-related work could be of interest in production, but home-brewed server made of debris and particles... And, one of the most attractive part is a community. Patient and wise. I've tried to start contributing to Nuno's work on netgraph, but had too little time for that. (Nuno, I still believe in you!) Would be glad to see VirtualBox running on DFBSD host with single-application WinXP in it. Cheers, DragonFly! /dennis On Mon, Sep 20, 2010 at 10:33 PM, Samuel J. Greear s...@evilcode.net wrote: This mail is intended for the infrequent responders and lurkers on the list just as much as the regular posters. What has drawn you to use the DragonFly BSD operating system and/or participate in its development by following this list? Technical features, methodologies, something about the community? I suspect the HAMMER filesystem to be the popular choice, but what other features affect or do you see affecting your day to day life as an administrator, developer, or [insert use case here], now or in the future? Thanks in advance for your response. Best, Sam -- Dennis Melentyev
Re: Why did you choose DragonFly?
Moin, well, I have a lot of reasons: - At first, I was surprised how easy it was to get patches etc. accepted in the DragonFly repo - The vkernel is really useful for giving CS courses at the university. Its about hacking a real OS kernel and not some kind of OS Java simulator. And recompiling a vkernel is only a matter of seconds. Furthermore debugging the vkernel is more comfortable that debugging a real kernel. - DragonFly has no problems to cut old ties, i.e. just throw old things out of base. - I really like the community and all developers around. Feels a bit like a big family, especially when a bunch of us meets annually at the CCC congress ;) - HINT Cheers Matthias
Re: Why did you choose DragonFly?
Hi. I don't remember why I ended up using DragonFly, it certainly wasn't because of fancy project goals and such, but I do remember my venture into BSD land started on IRC, something like this: luxh: hi. which is the best distro? @coolguy: none. all the cool guys use freebsd luxh: what's that? @coolguy: hah! ** luxh was kicked from #linux Nowadays I stay around because of the community. Small, but with skilled and funny people. I like the discussions and the new ideas getting pushed into the tree, and I like the feeling of being close do the developers. Keep kicking ass, Max
Re: Why did you choose DragonFly?
On Monday 20 September 2010 15:59:40 Colin Adams wrote: In my case it was the name. I'm obsessed with dragonflies, and my photo blog about them now runs on DragonFly BSD, to make things nice and tidy. It's the name for me too, though I'm also drawn to HAMMER. I run ReiserFS on Linux, and have set up a historical backup with rsync. I like having a filesystem that combines B-tree, journaling, and history. Pierre -- .i toljundi do .ibabo mi'afra tu'a do .ibabo damba do .ibabo do jinga .icu'u la ma'atman.
Re: Why did you choose DragonFly?
On Mon, 20 Sep 2010 13:33:28 -0600 Samuel J. Greear s...@evilcode.net wrote: This mail is intended for the infrequent responders and lurkers on the list just as much as the regular posters. What has drawn you to use the DragonFly BSD operating system and/or participate in its development by following this list? Technical features, methodologies, something about the community? I suspect the HAMMER filesystem to be the popular choice, but what other features affect or do you see affecting your day to day life as an administrator, developer, or [insert use case here], now or in the future? Hi Sam, A question for a question. Why _no one_ answered my question concerning DF BSD contained in my post: http://leaf.dragonflybsd.org/mailarchive/users/2010-07/msg00091.html What did I do wrong? I thought them over before I gathered enough temerity to ask here for anything. Why do you ask me -a lurker - to answer your questions when you (plural) are treating the lurkers that way? Regards -- Przemysław Pawełczyk (P2O2) [pron. Pshemislav Paveltchick] http://pp.blast.pl, pp...@o2.pl pgpQtsH1fWtqn.pgp Description: PGP signature
Re: Why did you choose DragonFly?
On Monday 20 September 2010 15:59:40 Colin Adams wrote: In my case it was the name. I'm obsessed with dragonflies, and my photo It's the name for me too, though I'm also drawn to HAMMER. I run ReiserFS on Same here. :) The name and the spirit, its community show, trying to push tech ( new algo ) to their limits... It was refreshing (inspiring) to see high level debates while following the HAMMER inception. Anyone remember the memorable discussion (*) between Matthew Dillon and Daniel Phillips ? :) (*) http://kerneltrap.org/Linux/Comparing_HAMMER_And_Tux3 However, Matt goal were not for embedded system (read ARM) ... So we are still ( and successfully ) using NetBSD 3 4 in production. // Yocto
Re: Why did you choose DragonFly?
2010/9/20 Przemysław Pawełczyk pp...@o2.pl: On Mon, 20 Sep 2010 13:33:28 -0600 Samuel J. Greear s...@evilcode.net wrote: This mail is intended for the infrequent responders and lurkers on the list just as much as the regular posters. What has drawn you to use the DragonFly BSD operating system and/or participate in its development by following this list? Technical features, methodologies, something about the community? I suspect the HAMMER filesystem to be the popular choice, but what other features affect or do you see affecting your day to day life as an administrator, developer, or [insert use case here], now or in the future? Hi Sam, A question for a question. Why _no one_ answered my question concerning DF BSD contained in my post: http://leaf.dragonflybsd.org/mailarchive/users/2010-07/msg00091.html What did I do wrong? I thought them over before I gathered enough temerity to ask here for anything. Why do you ask me -a lurker - to answer your questions when you (plural) are treating the lurkers that way? Regards -- Przemysław Pawełczyk (P2O2) [pron. Pshemislav Paveltchick] http://pp.blast.pl, pp...@o2.pl Hi Przemysław! You certainly didn't do anything wrong. Nor anyone else did. There are threads that go unanswered because there aren't people in position to provide feedback. Either due to lack of knowledge, experience, time, w/e. Please remember that our community isn't exactly crowded, so there are a lot of unexplored territories. Sometimes it helps to join us in dragonflybsd channel @ efnet and ask there or reply to your own thread preferably with a small follow up to raise awareness or just figure things out yourself (which is very difficult). I hope you don't hold any hard feelings against us :) Best regards, Stathis
Re: Why did you choose DragonFly?
On Mon, 20 Sep 2010 17:41:53 -0400 Pierre Abbat p...@phma.optus.nu wrote: On Monday 20 September 2010 16:51:47 Przemysław Pawełczyk wrote: Why _no one_ answered my question concerning DF BSD contained in my post: http://leaf.dragonflybsd.org/mailarchive/users/2010-07/msg00091.html I don't know why no one answered, but I didn't answer because I don't know much about SMP and don't have any SMP boxes. And my questions were asked _before_ the recent overhaul of DF website. It was my bad luck. Tough. Regards -- Przemysław Pawełczyk (P2O2) [pron. Pshemislav Paveltchick] http://pp.blast.pl, pp...@o2.pl pgp3SKMCB0O0K.pgp Description: PGP signature
Re: Why did you choose DragonFly?
On Tue, 21 Sep 2010 01:06:42 +0300 Stathis Kamperis ekamp...@gmail.com wrote: 2010/9/20 Przemysław Pawełczyk pp...@o2.pl: On Mon, 20 Sep 2010 13:33:28 -0600 Samuel J. Greear s...@evilcode.net wrote: This mail is intended for the infrequent responders and lurkers on the list just as much as the regular posters. What has drawn you to use the DragonFly BSD operating system and/or participate in its development by following this list? Technical features, methodologies, something about the community? I suspect the HAMMER filesystem to be the popular choice, but what other features affect or do you see affecting your day to day life as an administrator, developer, or [insert use case here], now or in the future? Hi Sam, A question for a question. Why _no one_ answered my question concerning DF BSD contained in my post: http://leaf.dragonflybsd.org/mailarchive/users/2010-07/msg00091.html What did I do wrong? I thought them over before I gathered enough temerity to ask here for anything. Why do you ask me -a lurker - to answer your questions when you (plural) are treating the lurkers that way? Regards -- Przemysław Pawełczyk (P2O2) [pron. Pshemislav Paveltchick] http://pp.blast.pl, pp...@o2.pl Hi Przemysław! You certainly didn't do anything wrong. Nor anyone else did. There are threads that go unanswered because there aren't people in position to provide feedback. Either due to lack of knowledge, experience, time, w/e. Please remember that our community isn't exactly crowded, so there are a lot of unexplored territories. Sometimes it helps to join us in dragonflybsd channel @ efnet and ask there or reply to your own thread preferably with a small follow up to raise awareness or just figure things out yourself (which is very difficult). I hope you don't hold any hard feelings against us :) Best regards, Stathis Hi, Nope, it's a thing of the past. Forgotten. Now. :-) A lot of changes one could observe on DF website from that time. Let me point to one thing - DF is on BSD cutting edge of development. Those who are interested in latest innovations on the BSD side comes not only from developing circles or supporting teams of large server farms. Some questions can be stupid or suggesting the gaps in documentation. New PC hardware is pretty powerfull - multicores' CPUs, terrabyte disks etc. New BSD flavors attract people which want to fully utilize their rigs. Most of us have a few PCs in home-network configurations. Any unanswered question, the more so a few od them, creates bad impression of OpenBSD forums, beg your pardon, but such is common view of OpenBSD (closed?) community. It yould be great loss for the whole effort around DF if the DF world was seen that way. Regards to all, Przemysław -- Przemysław Pawełczyk (P2O2) [pron. Pshemislav Paveltchick] http://pp.blast.pl, pp...@o2.pl pgphbsstgzHHp.pgp Description: PGP signature
Re: Why did you choose DragonFly?
Am 20.09.2010 21:33, schrieb Samuel J. Greear: This mail is intended for the infrequent responders and lurkers on the list just as much as the regular posters. What has drawn you to use the DragonFly BSD operating system and/or participate in its development by following this list? Technical features, methodologies, something about the community? I suspect the HAMMER filesystem to be the popular choice, but what other features affect or do you see affecting your day to day life as an administrator, developer, or [insert use case here], now or in the future? Well, IIRC, I was taking a look at DragonFly early at it's beginning when I was studying the L4 microkernel. I even suggested to base DragonFly on L4 at this time :). Since then, I always followed it's progress and also used it as a desktop for some time and recently also on the server. The ideas and goals of DragonFly are somehow more challanging than those of other main-stream OSes, so it's very interesting from a technical and educational standpoint in my case. And the whole development is driven by people out of their own personal interest. This is very nice! Furthermore almost everyone is allowed to contribute to the project and is even welcomed to do so. And I like the pragmatic choices of the developers, for example to use git instead of cvs, just to mention one. I think in general DragonFly is much more pragmatic than any other OS, if there is a good solution it will be followed. What I also like is the community and especially our project leader (Matt) who explains things very well, which is always worth reading. Other than that, to administer systems, HAMMER makes life so much easier, just because it makes backups so easy. Regards, Michael
Re: Why did you choose DragonFly?
On Mon, September 20, 2010 3:33 pm, Samuel J. Greear wrote: This mail is intended for the infrequent responders and lurkers on the list just as much as the regular posters. What has drawn you to use the DragonFly BSD operating system and/or participate in its development by following this list? Technical features, methodologies, something about the community? I suspect the HAMMER filesystem to be the popular choice, but what other features affect or do you see affecting your day to day life as an administrator, developer, or [insert use case here], now or in the future? I've been following DragonFly because it represented an opportunity to work on the community portion of a BSD system. The DragonFly Digest lets me read and document what's going on; I'm surprised that nobody has done the same with any of the other BSDs, really, in the past... 7 years? Geez. There's so much BSD-oriented material happening and it gets drowned out by the Windows and Linux chatter - not because it's necessarily better, but just because there's so much of it. Oh, and the DragonFly community is made of wonderful people, too. I'm confident I could take a stumbling tour through Europe and at least a few people I've never met face to face would buy me a beer. Or vice versa.
Re: Why did you choose DragonFly?
On Mon, Sep 20, 2010 at 09:50:30PM -0400, Justin C. Sherrill wrote: On Mon, September 20, 2010 3:33 pm, Samuel J. Greear wrote: This mail is intended for the infrequent responders and lurkers on the list just as much as the regular posters. What has drawn you to use the DragonFly BSD operating system and/or participate in its development by following this list? Technical features, methodologies, something about the community? I suspect the HAMMER filesystem to be the popular choice, but what other features affect or do you see affecting your day to day life as an administrator, developer, or [insert use case here], now or in the future? I've been following DragonFly because it represented an opportunity to work on the community portion of a BSD system. The DragonFly Digest lets me read and document what's going on; I'm surprised that nobody has done the same with any of the other BSDs, really, in the past... 7 years? Geez. As somebody outside looking in, the Digest did help me get a better understanding of what is going on in DragonFly. Now to get Justin to create one for all the other BSD's. ;-) P.S. I love the fact that you guys use GIT and not CVS. -- gamaral
Re: Why did you choose DragonFly?
On Mon, Sep 20, 2010 at 01:33:28PM -0600, Samuel J. Greear wrote: This mail is intended for the infrequent responders and lurkers on the list just as much as the regular posters. What has drawn you to use the DragonFly BSD operating system and/or participate in its development by following this list? Technical features, methodologies, something about the community? I suspect the HAMMER filesystem to be the popular choice, but what other features affect or do you see affecting your day to day life as an administrator, developer, or [insert use case here], now or in the future? Thanks in advance for your response. I was drawn to DragonFly BSD from the beginning for the opportunity to watch the project develop from the start. I had been using FreeBSD since the 3.2 days and really liked the 4.x branch while 5.x had quite a few issues. As others have stated, a large part of what kept me interested was the community. Everyone seemed eager to learn, explore, and help each other. The discussions are educational, humorous, and sometimes dramatic. HAMMER, vkernel, and tokens are all nice features. Another thing that I really like is that simplicity is a goal. Not, let's add every bell, whistle, horn, and clarion that we can just to say we did. Joe
