Re: donation : money : small amount : recurring
On 05/07/12 22:28, Samuel J. Greear wrote: A DragonFly BSD Paypal account has been established at pay...@dragonflybsd.org, I have added a donate-button to the Donations page. It looks like recurring payments are only possible with Business or Premier accounts. We could also add a donate button below the left menu, although some might argue that this is a bit obtrusive. I'll leave that decision to someone with actual authority :-). The code for the button can easily be copied from the Donations page. Cheers, Jelle
Re: donation : money : small amount : recurring
A DragonFly BSD Paypal account has been established at pay...@dragonflybsd.org, Matthew Dillon will maintain primary ownership of the account. Some pre-existing funds that were earmarked for DragonFly are being moved into this account, which will be used to fund future hardware acquisitions by the project, code bounties and/or contract development and potentially to defer other ongoing costs. The project is not able to accept tax-deductible donations at this time (as pointed out elsewhere in this thread) but I will continue to investigate our options and opportunities in this regard. There has been ongoing discussion about organizing the DragonFly finances in some fashion for some time but I am not sure we realized until this thread that there was some interest by end-users in making monetary contributions (as opposed to code and documentation), so thanks all for bringing this front and center. Sam On Tue, Jun 26, 2012 at 5:24 AM, Mayuresh Kathe mayur...@kathe.in wrote: how to?
Re: donation : money : small amount : recurring
That's great! If you'd like, I could set up a small system for the website so people can make recurring donations. Cheers, Jelle On 07/05/2012 02:28 PM, Samuel J. Greear wrote: A DragonFly BSD Paypal account has been established at pay...@dragonflybsd.org, Matthew Dillon will maintain primary ownership of the account. Some pre-existing funds that were earmarked for DragonFly are being moved into this account, which will be used to fund future hardware acquisitions by the project, code bounties and/or contract development and potentially to defer other ongoing costs. The project is not able to accept tax-deductible donations at this time (as pointed out elsewhere in this thread) but I will continue to investigate our options and opportunities in this regard. There has been ongoing discussion about organizing the DragonFly finances in some fashion for some time but I am not sure we realized until this thread that there was some interest by end-users in making monetary contributions (as opposed to code and documentation), so thanks all for bringing this front and center. Sam
Re: donation : money : small amount : recurring
I think you can make recurring through PayPal. What about a donation button the the DragonFly homepage? That's great! If you'd like, I could set up a small system for the website so people can make recurring donations. Cheers, Jelle
Re: donation : money : small amount : recurring
On 05/07/12 22:28, Samuel J. Greear wrote: A DragonFly BSD Paypal account has been established at pay...@dragonflybsd.org, Matthew Dillon will maintain primary ownership of the account. Some pre-existing funds that were earmarked for DragonFly are being moved into this account, which will be used to fund future hardware acquisitions by the project, code bounties and/or contract development and potentially to defer other ongoing costs. The project is not able to accept tax-deductible donations at this time (as pointed out elsewhere in this thread) but I will continue to investigate our options and opportunities in this regard. There has been ongoing discussion about organizing the DragonFly finances in some fashion for some time but I am not sure we realized until this thread that there was some interest by end-users in making monetary contributions (as opposed to code and documentation), so thanks all for bringing this front and center. Good. Have to go along with the concept of a donations button on-site, though. I'll definitely be giving up the PayPal account scenario in August, if not sooner. Absolutely loathe the bastards! Regards, Dave. signature.asc Description: OpenPGP digital signature
Re: donation : money : small amount : recurring
On Wed, Jun 27, 2012 at 11:52 PM, Juan Francisco Cantero Hurtado i...@juanfra.info wrote: For deduce taxes from donations, the dragonfly project needs create a non-profit organization and this is something complex and time consuming. OpenBSD project hesitated for a long time due to the same reason. The I guess developer Bob Beck to the initnksative to start the OpenBSD foundation. If some body needs info on how to do this I guess he might be able to help. Thanks Siju
Re: donation : money : small amount : recurring
On 07/02/2012 12:17 PM, Siju George wrote: On Wed, Jun 27, 2012 at 11:52 PM, Juan Francisco Cantero Hurtado i...@juanfra.info wrote: For deduce taxes from donations, the dragonfly project needs create a non-profit organization and this is something complex and time consuming. OpenBSD project hesitated for a long time due to the same reason. The I guess developer Bob Beck to the initnksative to start the OpenBSD foundation. If some body needs info on how to do this I guess he might be able to help. Thanks Siju I think there are two important distinctions to make here. First the OpenBSD foundation is based in Canada, and secondly they are not a registered charity because of the paperwork and overhead this would cause. Being a non-profit doesn't automatically make your donations tax-deductible. In our case this would mean, on top of starting a non-profit, we would need to apply for 501(c)(3) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/501%28c%29_organization#501.28c.29.283.29 status. Regarding the paperwork and administration, starting a non-profit is relatively easy, and achieving and maintaining a charitable status is hard. However if we just started a non-profit we could start accepting donations without an individual (i.e. Matthew Dillon) being personally responsible for the taxes, potentially creating a difficult bookkeeping situation for him solely. We could just start a non-profit so we can start accept donations right now and get to tax-deductibility later on. I'm not an American citizen (I'm Dutch), but if we do decide to start a non-profit I would be more that willing to help sort everything out. Cheers, Jelle
Re: donation : money : small amount : recurring
On 02/07/12 21:28, Jelle Hermsen wrote: On 07/02/2012 12:17 PM, Siju George wrote: On Wed, Jun 27, 2012 at 11:52 PM, Juan Francisco Cantero Hurtado i...@juanfra.info wrote: For deduce taxes from donations, the dragonfly project needs create a non-profit organization and this is something complex and time consuming. OpenBSD project hesitated for a long time due to the same reason. The I guess developer Bob Beck to the initnksative to start the OpenBSD foundation. If some body needs info on how to do this I guess he might be able to help. Thanks Siju I think there are two important distinctions to make here. First the OpenBSD foundation is based in Canada, and secondly they are not a registered charity because of the paperwork and overhead this would cause. Being a non-profit doesn't automatically make your donations tax-deductible. In our case this would mean, on top of starting a non-profit, we would need to apply for 501(c)(3) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/501%28c%29_organization#501.28c.29.283.29 status. Regarding the paperwork and administration, starting a non-profit is relatively easy, and achieving and maintaining a charitable status is hard. However if we just started a non-profit we could start accepting donations without an individual (i.e. Matthew Dillon) being personally responsible for the taxes, potentially creating a difficult bookkeeping situation for him solely. We could just start a non-profit so we can start accept donations right now and get to tax-deductibility later on. I'm not an American citizen (I'm Dutch), but if we do decide to start a non-profit I would be more that willing to help sort everything out. Something like this could be handy: http://packages.debian.org/unstable/main/misery Regards, David. Cheers, Jelle signature.asc Description: OpenPGP digital signature
Re: donation : money : small amount : recurring
On 28/06/12 12:21, Pierre Abbat wrote: On Wednesday 27 June 2012 20:40:38 elekktrett...@exemail.com.au wrote: Even considering that a non-profit registration is necessary? Because majority of people, including me, consider donating for the specific reason of reducing personal taxes. I'd rather pay $100 to DragonFlyBSD than to Uncle Sam. Matt, according to whois, is in California. I'm in North Carolina. Other DragonFliers are in Germany, Greece, Spain, UK, or possibly other countries. What do the laws of other countries say about donating to American non-profits? Well, I'm in Australia, so I get nothing. I'll go along with the majority on this one. Saving $100 on tax won't work for me and it doesn't concern me all that much. As far as money's concerned, I've always taken the long view. And I'm not in this particular aspect for the money, anyway. The open ethic is what works for me. It has in the last decade+ I've been involved with Debian. Regards, David. Pierre signature.asc Description: OpenPGP digital signature
Re: donation : money : small amount : recurring
On 28/06/12 10:43, Juan Francisco Cantero Hurtado wrote: On Thu, Jun 28, 2012 at 10:17:17AM +1000, David.Crosswell wrote: On 28/06/12 09:33, elekktrett...@exemail.com.au wrote: You're right. I forgot about SFC. You see, there are ways. But even if DragonFly wanted to register as non-profit on it's own. Sure it's complex and time consuming, but it's been _10_ years. I'm not even sure why registering as a non-profit should be time consuming or otherwise vexatious in any way. I can register a company name on-line in about ten minutes. Why is a non-profit so different? Regards, You need: - Know the laws related to non-profits. - Fill the paperwork. - Create invoices for the enterprises. - Accounting. - Taxes. - Etc. You can create a company online but you can't _maintain_ the company without a hard work :) And that is why you need the collective intelligence of the community. Do we have an accountant on the list? How about other levels/types of expertise? Here's the format all laid out. That's if that's the direction the community decide to go in. http://www.dc.gov/DC/DCRA/For+Business/Corporate+Registration/How+to+Register+and+License+a+Non-Profit+Organization It's a matter of filling out a few forms. The costs, from what i recall of the Australian equivalent, are negligible. For incorporation, an election of officers is required - a minimum of three and the President can't be the same person as the Treasurer. There is also generally a committee requirement, but we could just throw that open to the entire list, or create another list to conduct investment or other discussion on. For mine, an association is simpler and easier to incorporate. Regards, David. signature.asc Description: OpenPGP digital signature
Re: donation : money : small amount : recurring
On 28/06/12 17:59, Jelle Hermsen wrote: massive snip If you all do decide that monetary donations would be a good thing I would be happy to help out. A big chunk of my work is in e-commerce and ticket order systems, so I can definitely help out with the web / administration site. It wouldn't be too hard to set up recurring payments through PayPal and sent monthly receipts for those. ...and here we have it! The first step, through the list, is to establish exactly what resources we have as far as expertise levels and types that are available, before we even begin to start shopping for anything else. My strengths are business structure and expansion consultancy. Taking a broken model, rejuvenating it and making it productive. Market assessment, product creation. I have serious skills in regard to training and instructional design. Who's next? Forget the false modesty. There's no money in it! I hate Paypal, though. The Australian government have requirements for client details that Paypal feed back - in case my once per month payment of $3 for last.fm is going toward funding 'terrorism'. If I don't supply my 'details', my account may get cancelled, Paypal advise. I have no problem with using a Visa card scenario though, even though they also were part of the choke-hold on Wikileaks money. We're all stuck with the credit society. I just don't want to give my international transfer money to a pack of dogs. What's the U.S. delineation on amounts classified as 'gifts'? We could keep donations below that. Regards, David. signature.asc Description: OpenPGP digital signature
Re: donation : money : small amount : recurring
On Wed, Jun 27, 2012 at 10:26:19PM +0200, Jelle Hermsen wrote: For deduce taxes from donations, the dragonfly project needs create a non-profit organization and this is something complex and time consuming. It needn't be this complex and time consuming, because there are non-profit organisations like the Software Freedom Conservancy (www.sfconservancy.org ) that can take care of all this. I'm pretty sure they would be happy to accept DragonFly BSD as a member, and I would be happy to donate 10 euro per month if there was a way. You're right. I forgot about SFC. -- Juan Francisco Cantero Hurtado http://juanfra.info
Re: donation : money : small amount : recurring
You're right. I forgot about SFC. You see, there are ways. But even if DragonFly wanted to register as non-profit on it's own. Sure it's complex and time consuming, but it's been _10_ years.
Re: donation : money : small amount : recurring
On 28/06/12 09:33, elekktrett...@exemail.com.au wrote: You're right. I forgot about SFC. You see, there are ways. But even if DragonFly wanted to register as non-profit on it's own. Sure it's complex and time consuming, but it's been _10_ years. I'm not even sure why registering as a non-profit should be time consuming or otherwise vexatious in any way. I can register a company name on-line in about ten minutes. Why is a non-profit so different? Regards, David. signature.asc Description: OpenPGP digital signature
Re: donation : money : small amount : recurring
On 28/06/12 09:33, elekktrett...@exemail.com.au wrote: You're right. I forgot about SFC. You see, there are ways. But even if DragonFly wanted to register as non-profit on it's own. Sure it's complex and time consuming, but it's been _10_ years. Even considering that a non-profit registration is necessary? Why can't we determine what's required and all of us just put in to pay that bill. If $2000 is needed for a new server - why don't we all just put in what's required to buy it, then go onto the next project. I'm sure everybody has a visa card or similar. All we need is the supplier payment details. We can get all excited about non-profit and subsequent incorporation later. It does have advantages: 1. It facilitates sales to government, which would provide work for developers and sys admins familiar with DF 2. It facilitates access to government information. We could Facebook them. I'm in! Regards, David. signature.asc Description: OpenPGP digital signature
Re: donation : money : small amount : recurring
Even considering that a non-profit registration is necessary? Because majority of people, including me, consider donating for the specific reason of reducing personal taxes. I'd rather pay $100 to DragonFlyBSD than to Uncle Sam.
Re: donation : money : small amount : recurring
Even considering that a non-profit registration is necessary? Furthermore, in my experience, companies(who have naturally much bigger capital) will only ever donate to non-profits, to reduce their own tax burden.
Re: donation : money : small amount : recurring
On Thu, Jun 28, 2012 at 10:17:17AM +1000, David.Crosswell wrote: On 28/06/12 09:33, elekktrett...@exemail.com.au wrote: You're right. I forgot about SFC. You see, there are ways. But even if DragonFly wanted to register as non-profit on it's own. Sure it's complex and time consuming, but it's been _10_ years. I'm not even sure why registering as a non-profit should be time consuming or otherwise vexatious in any way. I can register a company name on-line in about ten minutes. Why is a non-profit so different? Regards, You need: - Know the laws related to non-profits. - Fill the paperwork. - Create invoices for the enterprises. - Accounting. - Taxes. - Etc. You can create a company online but you can't _maintain_ the company without a hard work :) -- Juan Francisco Cantero Hurtado http://juanfra.info
Re: donation : money : small amount : recurring
I never said it was easy to get non-profit company status. Matt runs this project. Anything that happens is his decision. All I'm saying is that more ways need to be exploited to attract funding and skills to move this project further quicker, otherwise it's forever going to be just a research project. If Matt needs legal advice to setup non-profit, i'm sure majority of people on this mailing list would be able to send a few bucks.(provided there was a way to do it)
Re: donation : money : small amount : recurring
We need to state why DragonFly's goals are superior. Why should people give their precious time and money to our cause instead of theirs? Majority of *nix users still don't know much, if anything, about DragonFly. I don't mean superior to minix in particular, but superior to other Unix-like operating systems.
Re: donation : money : small amount : recurring
On Wednesday 27 June 2012 20:40:38 elekktrett...@exemail.com.au wrote: Even considering that a non-profit registration is necessary? Because majority of people, including me, consider donating for the specific reason of reducing personal taxes. I'd rather pay $100 to DragonFlyBSD than to Uncle Sam. Matt, according to whois, is in California. I'm in North Carolina. Other DragonFliers are in Germany, Greece, Spain, UK, or possibly other countries. What do the laws of other countries say about donating to American non-profits? Pierre -- When a barnacle settles down, its brain disintegrates. Já não percebe nada, já não percebe nada.
Re: donation : money : small amount : recurring
On Thu 28/06/12 07:51, Pierre Abbat p...@phma.optus.nu wrote: On Wednesday 27 June 2012 20:40:38 elekktrett...@exemail.com.au wrote: Even considering that a non-profit registration is necessary? Because majority of people, including me, consider donating for the specific reason of reducing personal taxes. I'd rather pay $100 to DragonFlyBSD than to Uncle Sam. Matt, according to whois, is in California. I'm in North Carolina. Other DragonFliers are in Germany, Greece, Spain, UK, or possibly other countries. What do the laws of other countries say about donating to American non-profits? well, as the one who initiated this thread, all i'd like to say is, it's not just for tax savings, it's more about believing in a project, and at the same time, having some mechanism to keep donating even in the worst of personal times. that is when the small recurring donations scenario comes into play. best.
Re: donation : money : small amount : recurring
On Tue, Jun 26, 2012 at 7:24 AM, Mayuresh Kathe mayur...@kathe.in wrote: how to? We don't really have a mechanism for that, cause we don't have a path for that money. If you want to save up some money, there is: http://www.dragonflybsd.org/donations/ I'm sure there's other equipment that developers could use; Sepherosa Ziehau has been writing drivers for various high-throughput network cards on a regular basis, but he needs physical hardware to test it. The other alternative is to contribute time. Open source projects need that more than anything. Figuring out a bug report or just using DragonFly in a specific project, and then reporting how you did it, is useful.
Re: donation : money : small amount : recurring
We don't really have a mechanism for that, cause we don't have a path for that money. If you want to save up some money, there is: I have a feeling that Dragonfly is cutting itself out of extra funding and possibly developers. A lot of people might want to donate money for tax reasons. For example Minix3 that just went BSD, i looked at their website and they are paying at least 2-3 full time developers.
Re: donation : money : small amount : recurring
On 26 June 2012 19:53, elekktrett...@exemail.com.au wrote: We don't really have a mechanism for that, cause we don't have a path for that money. If you want to save up some money, there is: I have a feeling that Dragonfly is cutting itself out of extra funding and possibly developers. I do have the same opinion. What can we do to have a path for the money? -- Raimundo A. P. Santos Bacharelando em Informática ICMC - USP
Re: donation : money : small amount : recurring
On Tue, Jun 26, 2012 at 8:21 PM, Raimundo Santos rait...@gmail.com wrote: On 26 June 2012 19:53, elekktrett...@exemail.com.au wrote: We don't really have a mechanism for that, cause we don't have a path for that money. If you want to save up some money, there is: I have a feeling that Dragonfly is cutting itself out of extra funding and possibly developers. I do have the same opinion. Same opinion over here too ... What can we do to have a path for the money? -- Raimundo A. P. Santos Bacharelando em Informática ICMC - USP
Re: donation : money : small amount : recurring
It's been over 10 years since DragonFly forked off FreeBSD. While the progress is still happening at a reasonable pace, I think it's time to step it up and get the OS more out there. Otherwise it's always going to be just a research project. Justin is doing a great job promoting DF via DBSDLog but more funding is really the key.
Re: donation : money : small amount : recurring
On 27/06/12 10:48, elekktrett...@exemail.com.au wrote: It's been over 10 years since DragonFly forked off FreeBSD. While the progress is still happening at a reasonable pace, I think it's time to step it up and get the OS more out there. Otherwise it's always going to be just a research project. Justin is doing a great job promoting DF via DBSDLog but more funding is really the key. Apologies to those I have been inadvertently mailing direct! Agreed! .and astute investment of those funds. There are probably quite a number of list members that aren't developers, but would be happy to donate in other ways. Accountants, business consultants, even hardware suppliers. Wouldn't a couple of these be nice? http://www.ixsystems.com/ Things that are out of the reach of individuals, but almost negligible by way of crowd sourcing. The potential of the social capital of the community needs to be employed. Regards, David. signature.asc Description: OpenPGP digital signature
