[libreoffice-users] Re: [libreoffice-users] Re: [libreoffice-users] Re: [libreoffice-users] Re: [pt-br-usuarios] Estudantes da rede estadual de SP terão Office gratuito para até 5 PCs após parceria

[James Knott]

James Knott wrote:
> I used to use PC-Write on DOS many years ago.  IIRC, the same company
> had a spreadsheet and database available.  Of course, if we don't limit
> ourselves to PCs, the mainframe and minicomputer world had "office"
> software long before there was such a thing as a PC.

Forgot to include the link: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Staroffice


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[libreoffice-users] Re: [libreoffice-users] Re: [libreoffice-users] Re: [pt-br-usuarios] Estudantes da rede estadual de SP terão Office gratuito para até 5 PCs após parceria

[James Knott]

baldwin linguas wrote:
> I can remember writing college papers with Clarisworks.
> And there was Wordperfect from Corel.
> Although, I'm uncertain whether these were before or after MSOffice.
> I saw them both before I ever heard of MSOffice, though.
>
> Let's see...Clarisworks was released 1984.
> StarOffice (Sun) was released in 1985.
> Lotus 1 2 3 was released in 1983, but apparently Lotus Notes wasn't until 
> 1989.
> Wordperfect for DOS was released in 1989.
>
> And MSOffice was released in 1991.
>
> Of course, neither Staroffice (Sun), Lotus (IBM) nor Wordperfect
> (Corel), had a full suite, initially,
> as far as I am aware, but Clarisworks/Appleworks did, well before MSOffice.
> OpenOffice.org and LibreOffice, of course, are both children of the
> old StarOffice.

I used to use PC-Write on DOS many years ago.  IIRC, the same company
had a spreadsheet and database available.  Of course, if we don't limit
ourselves to PCs, the mainframe and minicomputer world had "office"
software long before there was such a thing as a PC.


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Re: [libreoffice-users] Re: [pt-br-usuarios] Estudantes da rede estadual de SP terão Office gratuito para até 5 PCs após parceria

[James Knott]

Virgil Arrington wrote:
> StarOffice users are Linux users? . . . .
> I have never seen StarOffice available for Linux.  StarOffice was a MS
> OS package not a Linux package, when it first came out, so StarOffice
> "audience" was a Windows "audience" and not Linux.  Actually OOo, AOO,
> and LO may have its roots in StarOffice, but they are not StarOffice by
> any means. 

StarOffice was not from MS.  It was originally written for CP/M on the
Z80, by a guy who started StarDivision.  I first came across it on
OS/2.  StarDivision was bought by Sun, who kept StarOffice as the
commercial version of the open source OpenOffice.  LibreOffice was
created from OpenOffice, when Oracle, after buying Sun, couldn't decide
what to do with StarOffice and OpenOffice.


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[libreoffice-users] Re: [libreoffice-users] Re: [libreoffice-users] Re: [pt-br-usuarios] Estudantes da rede estadual de SP terão Office gratuito para até 5 PCs após parceria

[Fred James]

Virgil Arrington wrote:

(omissions for brevity)


Last I saw, this is a *user's* list, not necessarily a *cheerleader's* 
list.


Virgil
(omissions for brevity)



So tell me, Urmas, if you find MSO to be the best, why are your here on
an LO list?
Regards
Fred James
Neither a booster or a trasher, am I.  I am on this list to learn, full 
stop.  Religious wars still annoy me ... I shall have to work on that.

Regards
Fred James


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[libreoffice-users] Re: Engaging Users in the LibreOffice Project

[Ken Springer]

Hi, Paul,

On 11/2/13 4:23 PM, Paul wrote:

Hi Ken,


I'd like to see some serious competition for MS Office,
but there appears to be none, either open source or commercial.

Why do you say there is no serious competition to MS Office?
Personally, I find LO to be slightly easier to use than MS Office
(although the difference is negligible, barring the ribbon, which I
find terrible), and just as functional for all my needs, and most of
the needs I have ever seen anybody use. I grant you that there are
possibly some advanced uses of Excel in particular that LO may not be
equal to, and integration with things like Exchange and Active
Directory that MS Office obviously has the edge in, but I have never
seen these in practice. I'm interested to know what aspects you find
lacking in LO.


Let's start with some general points to start with.  First, the user. 
For most home users,  who probably are not as experienced or 
knowledgeable of Word and LO as you and I,  the advanced features are 
not needed.  So something simpler to use, like Kingsoft Office Free, are 
more suited to those users.  And there are other free and commercial 
office products that offer .doc/.docx compatibility.  I can't say how 
good it is, I've never sat down to try them.  So LO and the other Ooo 
branches are not unique in that aspect, so LO is not the only game in 
town for that.


I did recently ask a friend to write a letter of recommendation for a 
job application packet.  She did it in Word on her Mac.  Displayed like 
crap!  Fortunately, printing it as a PDF file didn't exhibit any problems.


BTW, I hate that frickin' ribbon too.  Thankfully, you can turn it off 
and have the old menu system back.


And any particular interface, hereinafter (lawyer-like enough?   LOL) 
called the UI, may not fit a particular user.  For about an hour a few 
weeks ago, I played with a product called SSOffice, or similar name, and 
I really, really liked the UI.  Better than Word or LO.  But it may not 
be for everyone.  And it doesn't run on a Mac.  :-(


If you want to entice people to switch from Product X to LO, you not 
only have to be as good as Product X, you have to be a Helluva lot 
better.  Pricing is not that important anymore.  Gone are the days when 
standalone MS Word would be in the $300-$400 range.  And if you're a 
business, that purchase is tax deductible.


Free is just not good enough as a marketing tool anymore.

And you aren't competing with just MS Office, you're also competing with 
every other document program out there, and that includes typesetting 
programs like LyX (free) used by many in the math and science world, and 
DTP software such as Scribus, Publisher, Adobe Pagemaker, and others in 
between.


For something more specific:

https://bugs.freedesktop.org/show_bug.cgi?id=44871
https://bugs.freedesktop.org/show_bug.cgi?id=46986

Working around these issues creates more work for the user than doing 
the same things in Word.  Would you switch to a program that causes more 
work for you?


Then, there is this thread I started 10/29/13:

news://news.gmane.org:119/l4pbem$2ud$1...@ger.gmane.org

	In case the link doesn't work in your reader/email/whatever, the 
subject is "Picture size

controls".

People who've used Word will expect that feature to work similarly, 
since the text in the dialogue box has a very similar meaning.  Graphics 
programs that offer free drawing will use something like LO's method, 
but people working with documents will not have a clue.  And it's also 
extra work compared to Word.  When you have that option engaged in Word, 
when you are in the document just grab a handle and resize maintaining 
the aspect ratio until you get what you want.  With LO, you have to 
experiment to get the right size you want.


I have a list of other items in LO that didn't work right or as expected 
in 3.x.x that I have not double checked in 4.1.2.3.  Why?  It goes back 
to the two bugs above, that I filed.  It's obviously not important to 
the developers.  But it *is* important to me.  If features I use do not 
work or work correctly, why would I stay?  That's why I'm looking for 
new alternatives to to LO.  And for my Windows friends, I recommend they 
try Kingsoft Office Free.


You simply have to be better than the others.  And I don't see that yet 
in LO.


I will give LO the nod in help files, though often missing something. 
It's on the hard drive, you do not need internet access to read them as 
you do in Word.


--
Ken

Mac OS X 10.8.5
Firefox 24.0
Thunderbird 17.0.8
LibreOffice 4.1.2.3


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Re: [libreoffice-users] Re: [libreoffice-users] Re: [pt-br-usuarios] Estudantes da rede estadual de SP terão Office gratuito para até 5 PCs após parceria

[baldwin linguas]

On Sat, Nov 2, 2013 at 5:11 PM, Fred James  wrote:
> Urmas wrote:
>>
>> "Jay Lozier":
>>
>>> Microsoft did not develop the first office productivity packages.
>>
>>
>> There were no 'office packages' before Microsoft Office.
>>
>>> Several predated any MS offerings and were available before the IBM-PC
>>> was released.
>>

I can remember writing college papers with Clarisworks.
And there was Wordperfect from Corel.
Although, I'm uncertain whether these were before or after MSOffice.
I saw them both before I ever heard of MSOffice, though.

Let's see...Clarisworks was released 1984.
StarOffice (Sun) was released in 1985.
Lotus 1 2 3 was released in 1983, but apparently Lotus Notes wasn't until 1989.
Wordperfect for DOS was released in 1989.

And MSOffice was released in 1991.

Of course, neither Staroffice (Sun), Lotus (IBM) nor Wordperfect
(Corel), had a full suite, initially,
as far as I am aware, but Clarisworks/Appleworks did, well before MSOffice.
OpenOffice.org and LibreOffice, of course, are both children of the
old StarOffice.

Tony
-- 
http://www.baldwinlinguas.com
translations, interpreting, localization
and multilingual web design
EN, ES, FR, PT

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Re: [libreoffice-users] Re: Engaging Users in the LibreOffice Project

[Paul]

Hi Ken,

> I'd like to see some serious competition for MS Office,
> but there appears to be none, either open source or commercial.
Why do you say there is no serious competition to MS Office?
Personally, I find LO to be slightly easier to use than MS Office
(although the difference is negligible, barring the ribbon, which I
find terrible), and just as functional for all my needs, and most of
the needs I have ever seen anybody use. I grant you that there are
possibly some advanced uses of Excel in particular that LO may not be
equal to, and integration with things like Exchange and Active
Directory that MS Office obviously has the edge in, but I have never
seen these in practice. I'm interested to know what aspects you find
lacking in LO.

Paul

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[libreoffice-users] Re: LibreOffice Calc fails to load spreadsheets after upgrade to Windows 8.1

[Alan242]

Hi Gabriel, 
  I copied my spreadsheets folder to my namespace with the same result.  The 
same happens with an old USB thumb drive.  The only other drive I have 
currently is an external backup drive that I am unwilling to endanger as I am 
in the process of moving to a new case and want to get 8.1 working before I 
complete the process.

Alan


>
> From: Gabriel Risterucci [via Document Foundation Mail Archive] 
> 
>To: Alan242  
>Sent: Saturday, November 2, 2013 4:52 PM
>Subject: Re: LibreOffice Calc fails to load spreadsheets after upgrade to 
>Windows 8.1
>  
>
>
>2013/11/2 Alan242 <[hidden email]> 
>
>>
>reverting not an option? 
>
>Also, maybe it's I/O related. Does this happen if you move a file elsewhere 
>(other drive, USB thumbstick, network share...) and try to open it from 
>there? Trying this might help finding the cause of the problem (or provide 
>a temporary workaround) 
>
>-- 
>Cley Faye 
>http://cleyfaye.net/
>
>-- 
>To unsubscribe e-mail to: [hidden email] 
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>
>
>
>
>
> 
>If you reply to this email, your message will be added to the discussion 
>below: 
>http://nabble.documentfoundation.org/LibreOffice-Calc-fails-to-load-spreadsheets-after-upgrade-to-Windows-8-1-tp4081049p4081051.html
>  
>To unsubscribe from LibreOffice Calc fails to load spreadsheets after upgrade 
>to Windows 8.1, click here.
>NAML 
>
>



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Re: [libreoffice-users] Re: [pt-br-usuarios] Estudantes da rede estadual de SP terão Office gratuito para até 5 PCs após parceria

[Virgil Arrington]

I'm a strong proponents of Styles, and I teach them to my university 
students and insist that they use them in term papers for my class. But, I 
agree, they can get in the way when documents are shared among different 
collaborators. I have often shared documents with others. While I was using 
styles, my colleagues were not, so we often had a struggle to find some 
common formatting ground.


Virgil

-Original Message- 
From: Kracked_P_P---webmaster

Sent: Saturday, November 02, 2013 10:24 AM
To: users@global.libreoffice.org
Subject: Re: [libreoffice-users] Re: [pt-br-usuarios] Estudantes da rede 
estadual de SP terão Office gratuito para até 5 PCs após parceria


On 11/02/2013 08:36 AM, Urmas wrote:

"Kracked_P_P---webmaster":

90% of the businesses users I know of use less than 10% of the features
and functions that MSO has.

BTW, you know what one can do with Word 2.0 but not with
StarOffice-rebranded-for-a-third-time? Creating section templates, a
rough analog of section styles. Because the most of StarOffice
audience are whitespace-formatting Linux users, that feature never
came into the light.





StarOffice users are Linux users? . . . .
I have never seen StarOffice available for Linux.  StarOffice was a MS
OS package not a Linux package, when it first came out, so StarOffice
"audience" was a Windows "audience" and not Linux.  Actually OOo, AOO,
and LO may have its roots in StarOffice, but they are not StarOffice by
any means.

"whitespace-formatting Linux users"?  Never heard of a Linux distro
called "whitespace-formatting".

It seems that you are implying that Linux users are some sort of
"creature" to be kept away from a modern office environment, or at least
one that creates documentation for a company.  I do not know about you,
but people who write documents for a living tend to have their favorite
word processing package.  I know one, Piers Anthony, that uses Linux and
LO for many reasons, but one of the biggest is the ability to use custom
keyboards for the OS and Macros for the word processing package.  This
author, when a little younger, produced 4 to 6 paper-back books a year,
plus some co-authoring ones.  Now that he is about 80, he is producing
only 2 to 4 books a year.  He has stated, in print, that he needed Linux
and various non-MSO packages to do his work.

As for Linux. . . .
I have been using Ubuntu Linux for my default system since Spring of
2010, and use Windows only when the hardware or software must run on a
Windows system.  Every Windows system I use is also dual booting with
Ubuntu.  Well all but one.  That one is a half broken laptop that I use
as a loaner Windows system.

I know that some people like "styles" and would not go with out them,
but I do not use them and they are the bane of my "fixing" other
people's documentation.  I get people who want me to "fix" some parts of
a document that others made for them and half the time the "styles' get
in the way of the editing and fixing.

Sure "style" can help, but they also can "hurt" if the style's creator
goes in for "the more complex the better" idea of thinking.  K.I.S.S.
[keep it simple stupid] is still an idea that both documentation writers
and "code writers" should take to heart.  The more complex things are,
the harder to fix, edit, understand, modify, etc., etc..


You do not need styles, but if you use styles, keep them simple.



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Re: [libreoffice-users] Re: [libreoffice-users] Re: [pt-br-usuarios] Estudantes da rede estadual de SP terão Office gratuito para até 5 PCs após parceria

[Virgil Arrington]

I don't want to speak for Urmas, or necessarily defend him, but I use many 
programs in addition to LO for my work, and in many respects I prefer other 
options over LO. I've often spoken of the Atlantis Word Processor, a very 
small Word clone that I keep going back to for its simplicity, speed and 
stability. And, aside from creating tables, it does all I need in word 
processing (and has the best built-in Epub converter that I've seen in any 
word processor). I've also been playing recently with markdown editors like 
WriteMonkey and ReText. I like typing a plain text file and having it 
formatted by a separate CSS file. There's a simplicity about it that is 
quite enjoyable. I've used LaTeX and LyX on occasion. And, my job requires 
me to use (and teach) Microsoft Office. I even have an old version of 
WordPerfect on my system for those rare times I need to read its files from 
colleagues.


So, why am I here on this list? I still use LO for those tasks that can't be 
accomplished by my other simpler tools. When I need tables, I use LO Writer. 
Also, I use Calc and Presentation and Base for many tasks, none of which are 
supported in the dedicated editors that I tend to prefer over LO.


LO is the digital equivalent of my minivan. It does everything, but often 
isn't very fun, precisely because of its relative complexity. Atlantis is my 
sports car; small, light and fun, but not very practical when I need to haul 
a sheet of plywood.


So, I stay on this list to keep learning about the program, and I've learned 
plenty from y'all.


I hope that blind devotion to LO over all other computing tools doesn't 
become a prerequisite for discussing its relative merits and failings on 
this list. Last I saw, this is a *user's* list, not necessarily a 
*cheerleader's* list.


Virgil


-Original Message- 
From: Fred James

Sent: Saturday, November 02, 2013 5:11 PM
To: users@global.libreoffice.org
Subject: [libreoffice-users] Re: [libreoffice-users] Re: [pt-br-usuarios] 
Estudantes da rede estadual de SP terão Office gratuito para até 5 PCs após 
parceria


Urmas wrote:

"Jay Lozier":


Microsoft did not develop the first office productivity packages.


There were no 'office packages' before Microsoft Office.


Several predated any MS offerings and were available before the IBM-PC
was released.


They didn't design the first, but they have designed the best

So tell me, Urmas, if you find MSO to be the best, why are your here on
an LO list?
Regards
Fred James


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Re: [libreoffice-users] Re: presentation - question

[Joseph Hogan]

Hello,
Thanks to Pedro and Brian, I succeeded in docking the slide pane.

I was told CTL.

But, it doe snot work on a Mac.

I tried:

CMD and double clicked on the gray zone.

It worked!!

Thanks!

Joseph

On 11-02-13 5:14 PM, Pedro wrote:

Hi again Joseph

Please ignore my previous message. It was written before I saw your answer
to Miguel's suggestion


Joseph Hogan wrote

I tried this, but this pulls up a separate window with all the slides.

I had a vertical column that I could slide up and it stays in the same
window as the presentation.

It was just there when I started making the presentation.  Now, it is
gone.

The "window with all the slides" is the Slide Pane. If it is showing as a
separate window it means you undocked it.
What you need to do is click on the words Slide Pane on the top left corner
of that window, hold the left button while you drag the window to the left
edge of the Impress window. At some point a grey outline box will show up.
You can release the left mouse button to dock the Slide Pane back to the
original position.

If the instructions aren't clear enough, please ask for details.

Pedro



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Re: [libreoffice-users] LibreOffice Calc fails to load spreadsheets after upgrade to Windows 8.1

[Gabriel Risterucci]

2013/11/2 Alan242 

> After upgrading Windows 8 Pro 64-bit to Windows 8.1, Calc will open with a
> blank spreadsheet but will freeze (Not Responding) when doing a Load
> Document.  The spreadsheet grid turns into a gray pane, probably system
> theme. The Menu bar (File, Edit, etc.)  is at the top but unresponsive.
>  The
> Status bar at the bottom only shows Load Document.  Only the Minimize
> button
> on the Title bar at the top works.  It has run at least 60 minutes in this
> state with the turning circle.  The only way to exit is click on the Close
> button and select Close the program (the other option to select is Wait for
> the program to respond) or go to the Task Manager to force close the
> program.  All my .ods spreadsheets normally open within 10 seconds.  A new
> file is left behind that ends in .ods# and when LibreOffice is opened it
> asks me if I want to recover files.  How do I get my computer to open Calc
> spreadsheets once again.  I am heavily dependent on printing out
> spreadsheets in my personal life and use them to store my personal data
> without using paper copies.  I can no longer lookup information I need.
> This happened while using version 4.1.2.  The same thing happens with
> versions 4.0.6, 4.1.1, and 4.1.3.
>
> If the issue appeared when upgrading to a new windows version, is
reverting not an option?

Also, maybe it's I/O related. Does this happen if you move a file elsewhere
(other drive, USB thumbstick, network share...) and try to open it from
there? Trying this might help finding the cause of the problem (or provide
a temporary workaround)

-- 
Cley Faye
http://cleyfaye.net

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[libreoffice-users] LibreOffice Calc fails to load spreadsheets after upgrade to Windows 8.1

[Alan242]

After upgrading Windows 8 Pro 64-bit to Windows 8.1, Calc will open with a
blank spreadsheet but will freeze (Not Responding) when doing a Load
Document.  The spreadsheet grid turns into a gray pane, probably system
theme. The Menu bar (File, Edit, etc.)  is at the top but unresponsive.  The
Status bar at the bottom only shows Load Document.  Only the Minimize button
on the Title bar at the top works.  It has run at least 60 minutes in this
state with the turning circle.  The only way to exit is click on the Close
button and select Close the program (the other option to select is Wait for
the program to respond) or go to the Task Manager to force close the
program.  All my .ods spreadsheets normally open within 10 seconds.  A new
file is left behind that ends in .ods# and when LibreOffice is opened it
asks me if I want to recover files.  How do I get my computer to open Calc
spreadsheets once again.  I am heavily dependent on printing out
spreadsheets in my personal life and use them to store my personal data
without using paper copies.  I can no longer lookup information I need. 
This happened while using version 4.1.2.  The same thing happens with
versions 4.0.6, 4.1.1, and 4.1.3.



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[libreoffice-users] Re: [libreoffice-users] Re: [pt-br-usuarios] Estudantes da rede estadual de SP terão Office gratuito para até 5 PCs após parceria

[Doug]

On 11/2/2013 4:57 PM, Urmas wrote:

"Jay Lozier":


Microsoft did not develop the first office productivity packages.


There were no 'office packages' before Microsoft Office.


Several predated any MS offerings and were available before the IBM-PC
was released. 


They didn't design the first, but they have designed the best.



I disagree. WordPerfect is better!

--doug

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Re: [libreoffice-users] Re: [libreoffice-users] Re: [pt-br-usuarios] Estudantes da rede estadual de SP terão Office gratuito para até 5 PCs após parceria

[Jay Lozier]

On Sat, 2013-11-02 at 17:11 -0400, Fred James wrote: 

> Urmas wrote:
> > "Jay Lozier":
> >
> >> Microsoft did not develop the first office productivity packages.
> >
> > There were no 'office packages' before Microsoft Office.
> >
> >> Several predated any MS offerings and were available before the IBM-PC
> >> was released. 
> >
> > They didn't design the first, but they have designed the best
> So tell me, Urmas, if you find MSO to be the best, why are your here on 
> an LO list?
> Regards
> Fred James
> 
> 

+ 1
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jsloz...@gmail.com

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[libreoffice-users] Re: [libreoffice-users] Re: [pt-br-usuarios] Estudantes da rede estadual de SP terão Office gratuito para até 5 PCs após parceria

[Fred James]

Urmas wrote:

"Jay Lozier":


Microsoft did not develop the first office productivity packages.


There were no 'office packages' before Microsoft Office.


Several predated any MS offerings and were available before the IBM-PC
was released. 


They didn't design the first, but they have designed the best
So tell me, Urmas, if you find MSO to be the best, why are your here on 
an LO list?

Regards
Fred James


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[libreoffice-users] Re: presentation - question

[Pedro]

Hi again Joseph

Please ignore my previous message. It was written before I saw your answer
to Miguel's suggestion


Joseph Hogan wrote
> I tried this, but this pulls up a separate window with all the slides.
> 
> I had a vertical column that I could slide up and it stays in the same 
> window as the presentation.
> 
> It was just there when I started making the presentation.  Now, it is
> gone.

The "window with all the slides" is the Slide Pane. If it is showing as a
separate window it means you undocked it.
What you need to do is click on the words Slide Pane on the top left corner
of that window, hold the left button while you drag the window to the left
edge of the Impress window. At some point a grey outline box will show up.
You can release the left mouse button to dock the Slide Pane back to the
original position.

If the instructions aren't clear enough, please ask for details.

Pedro



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[libreoffice-users] Re: presentation - question

[Pedro]

Hi Joseph

That is called the Slide Pane. If the option is checked under View > Slide
Pane, then it means it must be collapsed to the left. You need to click on
the vertical handle to expand it (see image below)

 

Hope this helps...

Pedro



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Re: [libreoffice-users] Re: presentation - question

[Joseph Hogan]

Hello MIguel,

I tried this, but this pulls up a separate window with all the slides.

I had a vertical column that I could slide up and it stays in the same 
window as the presentation.


It was just there when I started making the presentation.  Now, it is gone.

Other ideas?

Thanks

Joseph


On 11-02-13 4:56 PM, mariosv wrote:

Hi Joseph,

maybe Menu/View/Slide pane.

Miguel Ángel.



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[libreoffice-users] Re: [pt-br-usuarios] Estudantes da rede estadual de SP terão Office gratuito para até 5 PCs após parceria

[Urmas]

"Jay Lozier":


Microsoft did not develop the first office productivity packages.


There were no 'office packages' before Microsoft Office.


Several predated any MS offerings and were available before the IBM-PC
was released. 


They didn't design the first, but they have designed the best.


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[libreoffice-users] Re: presentation - question

[mariosv]

Hi Joseph,

maybe Menu/View/Slide pane.

Miguel Ángel.



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[libreoffice-users] LO 4.1.3.2

[Cliff Scott]

Hi Y'all,

I have been using LO 4.0.5 for some time and just installed 4.1.3.2. Opened a
document that I had been doing in 4.0.5 and found that 4.1.3.2 doesn't see
one of my fonts, Calibri Light. It doesn't appear in the list of fonts at
all. Only the base Calibri appears. In 4.0.5 both the base and the Light
appear as separate fonts in the font dropdown list. I'm running OSx 10.7.5 on
a MacBook Pro. Checked via the Font Book app and Calibri Light appears
normally. Validated the font and no problems were found. Interestingly
Calibri Light was the last font I have installed. Even reinstalled it. I
would normally reboot to make sure something wasn't just funny that would be
corrected by rebooting, but can't do that right now. Ideas anyone? 

Thanks.
Cliff

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Re: [libreoffice-users] Dictionaries

[Heikki Jussila]

Those files are LibreOffice extension files. Yu should open them directly with 
LibreOffice. When you doubleClick (at least on Windows ...) LibreOffie knows 
that they are extensions and then installs them into the right place.

Hope this helps.
Heikki Jussila
On 02/11/2013 21:07:07, Thomas Taylor  wrote:
In what directory should downloaded dictionaries (chemistry & medical) be
saved? These have the *.oxt suffix but I haven't been able to find any on my
system.

Thanks, Tom

--
Every man is encompassed by a cloud of comforting convictions, which move with
him like flies on a summer day.
- Bertrand Russell

^^ --... ...-- / -.- --. --... -.-. ..-. -.-.


Tom Taylor - retired penguin - KG7CFC
AMD Phenom II x4 955 -- 4GB RAM -- 2x1.5TB sata2
openSUSE 13.1_RC1-x86_64
KDE 4.11.12, FF 24.0, claws-mail 3.9.2
registered linux user 263467

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[libreoffice-users] Dictionaries

[Thomas Taylor]

In what directory should downloaded dictionaries (chemistry & medical) be
saved?  These have the *.oxt suffix but I haven't been able to find any on my
system.

Thanks, Tom

-- 
Every man is encompassed by a cloud of comforting convictions, which move with
him like flies on a summer day.
  -  Bertrand Russell

^^  --...  ...--  / -.-  --.  --...  -.-.  ..-.  -.-.


Tom Taylor - retired penguin - KG7CFC
AMD Phenom II x4 955 -- 4GB RAM -- 2x1.5TB sata2
openSUSE 13.1_RC1-x86_64
KDE 4.11.12, FF 24.0, claws-mail 3.9.2
registered linux user 263467

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Re: [libreoffice-users] Re: [pt-br-usuarios] Estudantes da rede estadual de SP terão Office gratuito para até 5 PCs após parceria

[Jay Lozier]

On Sat, 2013-11-02 at 15:20 -0400, James Knott wrote: 
> Urmas wrote:
> > Just a simple question, Do you know who originally designed Microsoft
> > Office?
> >
> > Microsoft mostly.
> 
> IIRC, they bought what became Excel and I believe Word too, from other
> companies.
> 
Microsoft did not develop the first office productivity packages.
Several predated any MS offerings and were available before the IBM-PC
was released. How MS precisely entered the office productivity market is
less important than the fact there were other packages available at that
time. Basic text parsing has been done for a long time.

Visi-Calc was the first spreadsheet and was available on the Apple II.
Dedicated word processors (Wang) were available.

-- 
Jay Lozier
jsloz...@gmail.com


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[libreoffice-users] presentation - question

[Joseph Hogan]

Hello,

I have been using the presentation aspect of the Libre Office

For the most part, simple to use.

I seem to have lost a display tool that allows me to see the slides.  
They appear in a long vertical column on the left hand side of the window.


How do I get this back?

I am using v4.x.
Mac 10.6

Thanks for any hints.  I have looked for 3-4 weeks, no success.  I am 
now asking for help:)


Joseph

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Re: [libreoffice-users] Re: [pt-br-usuarios] Estudantes da rede estadual de SP terão Office gratuito para até 5 PCs após parceria

[James Knott]

Urmas wrote:
> Just a simple question, Do you know who originally designed Microsoft
> Office?
>
> Microsoft mostly.

IIRC, they bought what became Excel and I believe Word too, from other
companies.

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Re: [libreoffice-users] Re: Insert/Overwrite in Status Bar

[Kracked_P_P---webmaster]

On 11/02/2013 01:51 PM, Pedro wrote:
> Tinkerer wrote
>> In LO 4.1.3.2, Mac X version, the Insert/Overwrite Mode is missing from
>> the Status Bar.
>> Clicking next to the Language icon will bring up Overwrite, but it does
>> not work.
> Using LO 4.1.3.2 under Windows the behaviour is quite inconsistent:
> 1) The word Insert never shows up
> 2) Using the Insert key it toggles as expected (not so well when editing in
> Calc https://bugs.freedesktop.org/show_bug.cgi?id=54953)
> 3) You need to double click the blank area (where the word Insert should
> show) to switch to Overwrite mode; you only need to click once on Overwrite
> to switch to Insert mode...
>
> Hope this helps...
>

Does the cursor change "style" between the two modes?  "Overwrite mode"
looks "thicker" than "Insert mode".  That is the way I see which mode I
am using, for both Windows and Linux installs.  For 4.0.5, it states
"Overwrite" in the bottom bar, but not "Insert"  Of course I rarely look
at that bottom bar while I am typing a document.  I look at the cursor
instead.



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Re: [libreoffice-users] Re: Avery 3x5 card form, portrait/landscape problem

[Kracked_P_P---webmaster]

On 11/02/2013 10:28 AM, william drescher wrote:
> On 10/31/2013 8:14 AM, william drescher wrote:
>> I need to print some 3x5 inch cards across the narrow side.  This
>> would be "portrait" on each card.  The Avery Letter Size 5386
>> label has 3 cards stacked on top of each other: eg the cards are
>> landscape on a page that is portrait.
>>
>> When I load the template and switch the page to landscape,
>> instead of just rotating the page and template, LO rotates the
>> page but leaves the template as is.  The result is that I have 2
>> - 3x5 cards on the first page, and 1 on the next page, all in
>> landscape orientation.
>>
>> I know I could just rotate the text 90 degrees, but that is a bit
>> hard to read :-)
>>
>> I can build my own template, but does anyone have other
>> suggestions ?
>>
>> bill
>>
>>
> Thanks everybody.  To get the task done I created a page with 3
> frames.  I tried a table, but the table auto-adjusted the bottom when
> I typed in too much and I did not notice.  With the frame I get the
> red arrow that lets me know.
> I tried columns, but the text should NOT flow from 1 to the next.
>
> bill
>
>
I use Columns, and make sure no text overflows.
Sometimes Frames work for me, while other times they do not.

Whatever way works best for YOU is the way you should do it.

To be honest, the easiest way for me is just to print out on blank 3x5
cards I can buy for a lot less money than the 3 cards per sheet type of
paper.  But, you need a printer that can handle 3x5 cards.  Most that
have a borderless photo option, and photo paper tray, should be able to
print 3x5 cards.



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[libreoffice-users] Re: Insert/Overwrite in Status Bar

[Pedro]

Tinkerer wrote
> In LO 4.1.3.2, Mac X version, the Insert/Overwrite Mode is missing from
> the Status Bar.
> Clicking next to the Language icon will bring up Overwrite, but it does
> not work.

Using LO 4.1.3.2 under Windows the behaviour is quite inconsistent:
1) The word Insert never shows up
2) Using the Insert key it toggles as expected (not so well when editing in
Calc https://bugs.freedesktop.org/show_bug.cgi?id=54953)
3) You need to double click the blank area (where the word Insert should
show) to switch to Overwrite mode; you only need to click once on Overwrite
to switch to Insert mode...

Hope this helps...



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[libreoffice-users] Insert/Overwrite in Status Bar

[Tinkerer]

In LO 4.1.3.2, Mac X version, the Insert/Overwrite Mode is missing from the
Status Bar.
Clicking next to the Language icon will bring up Overwrite, but it does not
work.

Tink. 



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Re: [libreoffice-users] Re: Unwanted chars in help

[Kolbjørn Stuestøl]

Den 02.11.2013 11:51, skreiv Werner F. Bruhin:

Hi,

On 02/11/2013 11:10, Kolbjørn Stuestøl wrote:




When searching the translated po files I find no errors. As I am not
able to build the help files myself from po, I have to wait until the
next update to see my changes. So perhaps I have corrected them?
You might want to try using 'poEdit' (http://www.poedit.net/) it is a 
.po file editor I use for my stuff and it allows you to 
generate/compile a .mo file and it is normally pretty good at high 
lighting errors in the original and/or the translation string.


Werne
Thank you for  the tip, but I am already using poedit as one of my 
tools. But most work is done on the Pootle server on internet. Hoped 
there is a way to grab errors in the Pootle system. I think I'll wait 
for the next update to see whether the errors still are there or not.

Kolbjoern

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[libreoffice-users] Re: Engaging Users in the LibreOffice Project

[Ken Springer]

On 11/2/13 3:48 AM, Charles-H. Schulz wrote:

Le Fri, 1 Nov 2013 22:59:33 +,
e-letter  a écrit :


On 01/11/2013, Charles-H. Schulz
 wrote:


But when we come to think of it, these people started somewhere, one
day, to contribute, and while they all have their own reasons, we
(the people in charge of "marketing") thought that everybody has
the ability to contribute. The question is: how  can we make it
1)interesting 2) accessible 3)easy to understand what the various
tasks are 4)possible to spread the word about it?



Question 2 requires a definition of "contribute", e.g. is a bug
submission contribution? Is helping another user via the mailing list
a contribution?


Users support, yes.




Q5 answers above, therefore should appear in the survey before q2!

Q11 what is the relevance of knowing users' locations?

Agree with Mr Springer's message.

LO people should simply read the mailing list; every random date,
select a random number of mailing lists threads, read, analyse and
consider whether further action is necessary. You will get much better
information than a biased "survey"



I read Mr Springer's message and we do not want to have a biased survey
at all. One of the reasons we came up with a survey is that  we were
precisely not able to get the big picture by reading mailing lists.
It's important to note that there is no good or bad answer in this
survey, it's about understanding opportunities we could create for
users.


Most if not all of these surveys that tend to be biased in some way, and 
all of multiple choice surveys in general, have the same problem.  Not 
enough options for the user.  IMO, the survey could simply be modified, 
and then the construction of the questions as well as the actual 
questions aren't so important.


1.  Always have a "None of the above" selection
2.  Allow the selection of more than one option, or no option at all.
3.  Always have a comments window for each page so you can explain
your choice(s).  Multiple choice only limits the feedback you 
get.
4.  At the end of survey, have a general comments section where the user
can express just about anything regarding LO.

Surveys constructed without the above features will almost always be 
biased in some way.


A scenario:  100 people check out the survey.  40 of them are like me, 
they can't give you accurate answers.  They exit, and you just lost 40% 
of potentially useable information.


All surveys are meant to tell the originator(s) information they want to 
know.  But the information you want may not be what you *need* to know 
to be successful.


I could go on about why I'm looking for LO alternatives, but that's not 
the topic of this thread.  If you are interested and have the time, I'd 
discuss LO off list.  The email address in the header is valid.



Last but not least the geography might count, yes. You do not see your
contribution potential whether you're in a country that has ubiquitous
broadband or in a country where most people connect to the internet via
phones or for the wealthiest, satellite.


The geography info also tells you where your users are, also.  That can 
be helpful to identify where you may need to find out why usage in some 
locations is low.  Low usage may not have anything to do with LO at all.


As for satellite usage, wealthiest does not always apply if you consider 
only cost alone, not speed.  I've lived at my location for 9.5 years. 
Modem and true satellite (no "mixed" systems) were the only options 
until 2-3 years ago when a main trunk line was replaced with fiber 
optics.  I had satellite for many years.  For the same price, DSL 
basically just gave me more speeds and unlimited data.  Not enough 
difference in price for the base packages to really be a factor.


I do hope you have the time to contact me via email.  (HTML preferred) 
I'd like to see some serious competition for MS Office, but there 
appears to be none, either open source or commercial.



--
Ken

Mac OS X 10.8.5
Firefox 24.0
Thunderbird 17.0.8
LibreOffice 4.1.2.3


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[libreoffice-users] Re: Avery 3x5 card form, portrait/landscape problem

[william drescher]

On 10/31/2013 8:14 AM, william drescher wrote:

I need to print some 3x5 inch cards across the narrow side.  This
would be "portrait" on each card.  The Avery Letter Size 5386
label has 3 cards stacked on top of each other: eg the cards are
landscape on a page that is portrait.

When I load the template and switch the page to landscape,
instead of just rotating the page and template, LO rotates the
page but leaves the template as is.  The result is that I have 2
- 3x5 cards on the first page, and 1 on the next page, all in
landscape orientation.

I know I could just rotate the text 90 degrees, but that is a bit
hard to read :-)

I can build my own template, but does anyone have other
suggestions ?

bill


Thanks everybody.  To get the task done I created a page with 3 
frames.  I tried a table, but the table auto-adjusted the bottom 
when I typed in too much and I did not notice.  With the frame I 
get the red arrow that lets me know.

I tried columns, but the text should NOT flow from 1 to the next.

bill


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Re: [libreoffice-users] Re: [pt-br-usuarios] Estudantes da rede estadual de SP terão Office gratuito para até 5 PCs após parceria

[Kracked_P_P---webmaster]

On 11/02/2013 08:36 AM, Urmas wrote:
> "Kracked_P_P---webmaster":
>
> 90% of the businesses users I know of use less than 10% of the features
> and functions that MSO has.
>
> BTW, you know what one can do with Word 2.0 but not with
> StarOffice-rebranded-for-a-third-time? Creating section templates, a
> rough analog of section styles. Because the most of StarOffice
> audience are whitespace-formatting Linux users, that feature never
> came into the light.
>
>
>

StarOffice users are Linux users? . . . .
I have never seen StarOffice available for Linux.  StarOffice was a MS
OS package not a Linux package, when it first came out, so StarOffice
"audience" was a Windows "audience" and not Linux.  Actually OOo, AOO,
and LO may have its roots in StarOffice, but they are not StarOffice by
any means.

"whitespace-formatting Linux users"?  Never heard of a Linux distro
called "whitespace-formatting". 

It seems that you are implying that Linux users are some sort of
"creature" to be kept away from a modern office environment, or at least
one that creates documentation for a company.  I do not know about you,
but people who write documents for a living tend to have their favorite
word processing package.  I know one, Piers Anthony, that uses Linux and
LO for many reasons, but one of the biggest is the ability to use custom
keyboards for the OS and Macros for the word processing package.  This
author, when a little younger, produced 4 to 6 paper-back books a year,
plus some co-authoring ones.  Now that he is about 80, he is producing
only 2 to 4 books a year.  He has stated, in print, that he needed Linux
and various non-MSO packages to do his work.

As for Linux. . . .
I have been using Ubuntu Linux for my default system since Spring of
2010, and use Windows only when the hardware or software must run on a
Windows system.  Every Windows system I use is also dual booting with
Ubuntu.  Well all but one.  That one is a half broken laptop that I use
as a loaner Windows system.

I know that some people like "styles" and would not go with out them,
but I do not use them and they are the bane of my "fixing" other
people's documentation.  I get people who want me to "fix" some parts of
a document that others made for them and half the time the "styles' get
in the way of the editing and fixing.

Sure "style" can help, but they also can "hurt" if the style's creator
goes in for "the more complex the better" idea of thinking.  K.I.S.S.
[keep it simple stupid] is still an idea that both documentation writers
and "code writers" should take to heart.  The more complex things are,
the harder to fix, edit, understand, modify, etc., etc.. 


You do not need styles, but if you use styles, keep them simple.



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Re: [libreoffice-users] Re: [pt-br-usuarios] Estudantes da rede estadual de SP terão Office gratuito para até 5 PCs após parceria

[Urmas]

"Kracked_P_P---webmaster":

90% of the businesses users I know of use less than 10% of the features
and functions that MSO has.

BTW, you know what one can do with Word 2.0 but not with 
StarOffice-rebranded-for-a-third-time? Creating section templates, a rough 
analog of section styles. Because the most of StarOffice audience are 
whitespace-formatting Linux users, that feature never came into the light.




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Re: [libreoffice-users] Re: [pt-br-usuarios] Estudantes da rede estadual de SP terão Office gratuito para até 5 PCs após parceria

[Urmas]

"Kracked_P_P---webmaster":

MS was the bigest copycats there was back in the early days.  They
"stole" from any package that could get away with.

I was working in the computer field when Apple came out with the first
Mac, and then many of those ideas were used to make the first Windows
OS.

It is improbable considering the Mac appearing in 1984, and Windows, with 
the same GUI architecture as today, appearing in 1985. There was no chance 
they could adapt the entire GUI in year or so. 




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[libreoffice-users] Re: Unwanted chars in help

[Werner F. Bruhin]

Hi,

On 02/11/2013 11:10, Kolbjørn Stuestøl wrote:




When searching the translated po files I find no errors. As I am not
able to build the help files myself from po, I have to wait until the
next update to see my changes. So perhaps I have corrected them?
You might want to try using 'poEdit' (http://www.poedit.net/) it is a 
.po file editor I use for my stuff and it allows you to generate/compile 
a .mo file and it is normally pretty good at high lighting errors in the 
original and/or the translation string.


Werner


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Re: [libreoffice-users] Unwanted chars in help

[Kolbjørn Stuestøl]

Den 01.11.2013 17:58, skreiv anne-ology:
   Usually when these 'strange characters' appear it's due to 
quotation marks (single or double) or bold face type or or some other 
thing which does not computer-translate to whatever program the viewer 
has -
MsFt is ripe with adding special effects which aren't 
compatible with anyone else  ;-(


   If you wish to see what is being hidden (?) in these 'strange 
characters' send the document/e-mail/ ... whatever to a machine with 
MsFt's latest program -

 as one of these mini-handhelds ... ... ...

   Good luck to you [I use to know this term in the Nordic 
language; sorry, it eludes me for the moment]

Thank you.
I do not know about MsFt, but that doesn't matter. :-)
The characters are not "strange" but unwanted. They are added by the 
build program, may be because I have forgotten or misprinted an end tag, 
a quote, or something else somewhere. The Pootle server tells that the 
folder has 436 699 words, so …


When searching the translated po files I find no errors. As I am not 
able to build the help files myself from po, I have to wait until the 
next update to see my changes. So perhaps I have corrected them?

Kolbjoern





From: *Kolbjørn Stuestøl* >

Date: Fri, Nov 1, 2013 at 11:18 AM
Subject: [libreoffice-users] Unwanted chars in help
To: LibreOffice brukargruppe >



In my copy of the LO 4.1.2.3 Help (Norwegian, nynorsk) there are some 
unwanted characters in the headwords list. Example: "redigera - X{ 
 �J" ("redigera" = "edit").


I think the reason for these errors could be some missing closing tags 
somewhere in the po files. Something like 
"redigera" (missing "/" ) perhaps.

Where do I start hunting and what should I've been looking for?

As I am a translator of these files, I could very well have done these 
mistakes myself, but it does not help me anyway. Btw: I have seen 
these errors in other translations than Norwegian nynorsk too.


Perhaps not the right place posting this, but I did not found a 
translators or a documenters forum. Someone knows?


Kolbjoern Stuestoel




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Re: [libreoffice-users] Engaging Users in the LibreOffice Project

[Charles-H. Schulz]

Le Fri, 1 Nov 2013 22:59:33 +,
e-letter  a écrit :

> On 01/11/2013, Charles-H. Schulz
>  wrote:
> >
> > But when we come to think of it, these people started somewhere, one
> > day, to contribute, and while they all have their own reasons, we
> > (the people in charge of "marketing") thought that everybody has
> > the ability to contribute. The question is: how  can we make it
> > 1)interesting 2) accessible 3)easy to understand what the various
> > tasks are 4)possible to spread the word about it?
> >
> 
> Question 2 requires a definition of "contribute", e.g. is a bug
> submission contribution? Is helping another user via the mailing list
> a contribution?

Users support, yes. 


> 
> Q5 answers above, therefore should appear in the survey before q2!
> 
> Q11 what is the relevance of knowing users' locations?
> 
> Agree with Mr Springer's message.
> 
> LO people should simply read the mailing list; every random date,
> select a random number of mailing lists threads, read, analyse and
> consider whether further action is necessary. You will get much better
> information than a biased "survey"


I read Mr Springer's message and we do not want to have a biased survey
at all. One of the reasons we came up with a survey is that  we were
precisely not able to get the big picture by reading mailing lists.
It's important to note that there is no good or bad answer in this
survey, it's about understanding opportunities we could create for
users. 

Last but not least the geography might count, yes. You do not see your
contribution potential whether you're in a country that has ubiquitous
broadband or in a country where most people connect to the internet via
phones or for the wealthiest, satellite.

Best,




-- 
Charles-H. Schulz 
Co-founder, The Document Foundation,
Kurfürstendamm 188, 10707 Berlin
Gemeinnützige rechtsfähige Stiftung des bürgerlichen Rechts
Legal details: http://www.documentfoundation.org/imprint
Mobile Number: +33 (0)6 98 65 54 24.


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Re: [libreoffice-users] Missing Hyphens in pdf Export (PDF/A-1a only)

[Mirosław Zalewski]

Dnia 2013-11-02, o godz. 06:18:50
jonathon  napisał(a):

> Is there a list of Unicode characters that it affects?

No, there is not.
 
>  U+002D,  U+2010, U+2011, U+2212, U+2013, U+2014, U+2015, U+2E3A,
> U+2E3B, U+005F, U+00AD, U+00AF, U+02D7, etc?

Well, you can try it yourself and post your finding at mentioned bug
report.
But apparently, only automatically inserted hyphens are affected.
-- 
Best regards
Mirosław Zalewski

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