Re: [libreoffice-users] Re: Libre Icons in Ubuntu disappear after loading file

[Tom Davies]

Hi :)
I think the best policy right now is to sit&wait to see if anyone else
reports this problem in the near future.  If they do we might be able
to get enough information to make a bug-report then.

I have had a similar case on Windows 7 when attempting to install MS
Office 2010.  We had wanted all machines to have the same
configurations so i was editing the xml file on the server so that i
could go to each machine and just double-click the installer.  I was
trying to find a way of pushing it out to all the machines to save
myself the walk but apparently it's not worth doing for less than 50
machines so i gave up and tried to catch machines when they weren't
being used rather than stopping people from working or doing it at a
scheduled time.  My boss grabbed the DVDs off me and did his own
install on hos own machine and then told me off because his icons were
the generic broken-link type icon.  His settings are not quite the
same either but no-one's noticed that.  Everyone else's were fine.  I
still don't really know exactly what is wrong with his machine but he
really doesn't like me messing with his machine.  Hence his regularly
has problems and has even blue-screened a few times.  However, that is
Windows and a different program so it's unlikely to be a similar
cause!
Regards from
Tom :)



On 4 January 2014 00:31, Kracked_P_P---webmaster
 wrote:
>
> Yes you might have issues with a Beta 4.2.x.x.
> I just - this afternoon - replaced 4.0.6 with 4.1.4 and will be testing it
> out for a bit.
>
> I started with 9.04 or 9.10, kept 10.04 LTS till 12.04 LTS came out.  I
> tried to update to 11.xx but has issues that ended up being 11.xx issues
> with my on-board video card that 10.04 did not have.  I found out about that
> when I went to 12.04 and the same problem was there, but went away with a
> upgrade from NVIDIA on-mother-board to NVIDIA PCIe-card.
>
> I have upgraded - not clean install - before on a laptop, but things keep
> being kept on the drive that is no longer needed.  The clean install from
> 10.04 to 12.04 reduced the drive space of everything installed in the root
> folders other than "/home" by over 50 GB that the 11.04 to 12.04 upgrading
> without a clean install.  I did this on a laptop.  So anytime I "upgrade" it
> needs to be a clean install.  The problem with that is I keep forgetting all
> these little things like the needed files to be able to lay "protected" DVDs
> on my Ubuntu desktop and a lot of other "stuff" that I need to get my work
> done.  Took a few weeks to install everything [or remembering what is needed
> to be installed] that I had on my previous version of Ubuntu.
>
> Once I install the OS, then I have to install MATE all over again and all of
> the tweaks for that desktop environment.  Also the time to install all of
> the packages I use on a daily, weekly, or monthly basis.  When I installed
> 12.04 on a new drive, after the old one failed, it took over 16 hours to
> install the OS, MATE, and all of the packages, less all of the tweaks and
> such I keep forgetting to install till I need them.  That is with a
> semi-fast quad processor desktop.  It takes much more on my slower dual core
> desktop I dual boot with Win7.
>
>
>
>
>
>
> On 01/03/2014 07:01 PM, Don C. Myers wrote:
>>
>> Hi,
>>
>> I've not had any issues with LO 4.1.4.2 (Document Foundation Version) on
>> Ubuntu 13.10 with Unity on several machines. Since 4.2 is still in beta you
>> might want to try 4.1.4.2 and see if the same thing happens. If 4.1.4.2
>> works fine, odds are it is a bug in 4.2. If you have the same issues with
>> both versions, then I would think it is something with your computer.
>>
>> You are correct, Ubuntu 14.04 is the next long term release. I've read
>> quite a few good things about it, and nothing that scares me. I've had every
>> version since 8.10. 13.10 is the most polished, and also the fastest version
>> yet. Upgrading even just to get the kernel updates I've found to be
>> worthwhile.
>>
>> Don
>>
>> On 01/03/2014 05:47 PM, CVAlkan wrote:
>>>
>>> I'm using LibreOffice Version: 4.2.0.1 Build ID:
>>> 7bf567613a536ded11709b952950c9e8f7181a4a
>>> with 64 bit Ubuntu 12.04 LTS.
>>>
>>> I've never used Mate, only Unity, so can't comment on that.
>>>
>>> My understanding is that Ubuntu 14.04 is the next long term release, but
>>> from all I've heard I must say I'm quite nervous about upgrading when the
>>> time comes.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> --
>>> View this message in context:
>>> http://nabble.documentfoundation.org/Libre-Icons-in-Ubuntu-disappear-after-loading-file-tp4089914p4090689.html
>>> Sent from the Users mailing list archive at Nabble.com.
>>>
>>
>
>
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[libreoffice-users] Re: [tdf-discuss] Re: Start 2014 with Freedom, Adopt LibreOffice in your life!

[Terrence Enger]

On Sat, 2014-01-04 at 22:45 +0700, Urmas wrote:
> "Vitorio Furusho - LibreOffice":
> > Start 2014 with Freedom, Adopt LibreOffice in your life!
> 
> Do you call the absolute dependence on developers' powertrips and their 
> uncontestable decisions 'freedom'? I have bad news for you then.

I do see freedom here, even if I do not quite see the negative things 
that you name.  I do not remember anything that I would call a 
powertrip.  In every interaction I have had with a developer, the 
developer has been polite and helpful.  The fact that decisions are 
made by those who know what they are doing strikes me as a *good* thing.

Terry.



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[libreoffice-users] Re: Start 2014 with Freedom, Adopt LibreOffice in your life!

[Urmas]

"Vitorio Furusho - LibreOffice":

Start 2014 with Freedom, Adopt LibreOffice in your life!


Do you call the absolute dependence on developers' powertrips and their 
uncontestable decisions 'freedom'? I have bad news for you then.




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Re: [libreoffice-users] Ask

[e-letter]

On 03/01/2014, Paweł Piliszek  wrote:
> Hello everybody,
>
> Mr Florian Effenberger advice me to write on this e-mail address so here
> I am:) I have a question about possibility to improve into Libre Office
> something what is called waterfall plot (In QtiPlot program). It is a
> kind of artificial 3D plot, where third dimension is only a constant
> period between curves. How it look You can see on attached files. Aas

Files not attached to mailing lists.

What is wrong with qtiplot?

Do not use LO; use gnuplot, R, opendx, paraview for 3d plots

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Re: [libreoffice-users] Re: Start 2014 with Freedom, Adopt LibreOffice in your life!

[yahoo-pier_andreit]

On 01/04/2014 04:45 PM, Urmas wrote:

"Vitorio Furusho - LibreOffice":

Start 2014 with Freedom, Adopt LibreOffice in your life!


Do you call the absolute dependence on developers' powertrips and their
uncontestable decisions 'freedom'? I have bad news for you then.



do you call the absolute dependece of your life on bakers' powertrips 
and theyr uncontestable decisions 'freedom'? me too have bad news for 
you then...:-) :-) :-)


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Re: [libreoffice-users] Re: [tdf-discuss] Re: Start 2014 with Freedom, Adopt LibreOffice in your life!

[Doug]

On 01/04/2014 11:21 AM, Terrence Enger wrote:

On Sat, 2014-01-04 at 22:45 +0700, Urmas wrote:

"Vitorio Furusho - LibreOffice":

Start 2014 with Freedom, Adopt LibreOffice in your life!

Do you call the absolute dependence on developers' powertrips and their
uncontestable decisions 'freedom'? I have bad news for you then.

I do see freedom here, even if I do not quite see the negative things
that you name.  I do not remember anything that I would call a
powertrip.  In every interaction I have had with a developer, the
developer has been polite and helpful.  The fact that decisions are
made by those who know what they are doing strikes me as a *good* thing.

Terry.




Like Unity?

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Re: [libreoffice-users] Re: [tdf-discuss] Re: Start 2014 with Freedom, Adopt LibreOffice in your life!

[Don C. Myers]

On 01/04/2014 04:48 PM, Doug wrote:

On 01/04/2014 11:21 AM, Terrence Enger wrote:

On Sat, 2014-01-04 at 22:45 +0700, Urmas wrote:

"Vitorio Furusho - LibreOffice":

Start 2014 with Freedom, Adopt LibreOffice in your life!

Do you call the absolute dependence on developers' powertrips and their
uncontestable decisions 'freedom'? I have bad news for you then.

I do see freedom here, even if I do not quite see the negative things
that you name.  I do not remember anything that I would call a
powertrip.  In every interaction I have had with a developer, the
developer has been polite and helpful.  The fact that decisions are
made by those who know what they are doing strikes me as a *good* thing.

Terry.




Like Unity?

I used OpenOffice from Version 1.0 until LibreOffice came out, and have 
been using LibreOffice ever since. I've been impressed with what 
LibreOffice has accomplished during the short time it has been in  
existence. I've used Ubuntu since 8.10. I tried Unity when it first came 
out. Yes, it was pretty rough around the edges. But it has morphed into 
a desktop I have no desire to leave. 98% of everything I do on the 
computer is in Ubuntu. 90% of my time at work is on the computer. I will 
have multiple windows of multiple apps open at one time, and it never 
flinches. I recently set up a computer with Windows 8 on. It was a 
nightmare. I have no desire to try other Linux desktops because I work 
very efficiently in Unity.


Don
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[libreoffice-users] Calc cross-sheet issue with COUNTIF and AVERAGEIF...

[Ryan Ashley]

I have developed a spreadsheet which contains a sheet for the cover and 
basic information as well as one sheet for every month. There is a cell 
with a number on every sheet at location H35. I want the average of all 
of those which are not zero on the first sheet. I initially tried using 
"AVERAGEIF(January.H35:December.H35, ">0")", but it keeps giving me 
error 504. I then tried the formula below, which uses COUNTIF, but the 
part with COUNTIF in it causes a 504 also. If I cannot use COUNTIF or 
AVERAGEIF, how do I get an average of cell H35 on each sheet where H35 
is greater than zero?


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Re: [libreoffice-users] Calc cross-sheet issue with COUNTIF and AVERAGEIF...

[Paul]

One way would be to add a second cell to each sheet, say H36, that has
a simple "IF(H53>0,1,0)", then on the cover sheet your formula could be
something like
"=(January.H35+Fenruary.H35+...)/(January.H36+February.H36+...)". Of
course you would need to type in all the actual cell references instead
of the ellipses. Better yet would be to split that cover cell into
three cells, one for the sum of all H35 cells, one for the sum of all
H36 cells, and one for the averaging of those two numbers. I'm a fan of
having such intermediate calculations in the spreadsheet. Things get
much simpler (and therefore easier to debug and modify) when you
include intermediate steps and don't try to do too much in one cell.

If adding another cell (or cells) is out of the question, it could all
be done in a user function, say in LO Basic. That would require you to
code a user defined function, and I'm not sure how familiar you are
with that. Depending on your point of view, a user defined function
might be either a more or a less elegant solution, and more or less
difficult to change in future.

Maybe someone else knows a way to do it using existing functions, but I
can only think of those two approaches offhand.

Paul



On Sat, 04 Jan 2014 19:10:11 -0500
Ryan Ashley  wrote:

> I have developed a spreadsheet which contains a sheet for the cover
> and basic information as well as one sheet for every month. There is
> a cell with a number on every sheet at location H35. I want the
> average of all of those which are not zero on the first sheet. I
> initially tried using "AVERAGEIF(January.H35:December.H35, ">0")",
> but it keeps giving me error 504. I then tried the formula below,
> which uses COUNTIF, but the part with COUNTIF in it causes a 504
> also. If I cannot use COUNTIF or AVERAGEIF, how do I get an average
> of cell H35 on each sheet where H35 is greater than zero?
> 


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Re: [libreoffice-users] Ask

[Tom Davies]

Hi :)
I hadn't thought of that.  Part of the advantage of using LibreOffice
is that it's designed to be 1 part of a jigsaw puzzle rather than
being a massively monstrous programs that tries to do everything but
does it all badly.  LibreOffice tends to co-operate with a wide range
of other programs that fit together well.  So, each person has their
own system tailored to their own needs and streamlined to run on
smaller, lighter machines.

It does sound like it might be better to use specialist tools for your
advanced drawing requirements but posting a bug-report/feature-request
is a good plan for the longer term too.
Regards from
Tom :)



On 4 January 2014 19:19, e-letter  wrote:
> On 03/01/2014, Paweł Piliszek  wrote:
>> Hello everybody,
>>
>> Mr Florian Effenberger advice me to write on this e-mail address so here
>> I am:) I have a question about possibility to improve into Libre Office
>> something what is called waterfall plot (In QtiPlot program). It is a
>> kind of artificial 3D plot, where third dimension is only a constant
>> period between curves. How it look You can see on attached files. Aas
>
> Files not attached to mailing lists.
>
> What is wrong with qtiplot?
>
> Do not use LO; use gnuplot, R, opendx, paraview for 3d plots
>
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Re: [libreoffice-users] Calc cross-sheet issue with COUNTIF and AVERAGEIF...

[Ryan Ashley]

Well I have designed the sheets to be printed at the end of each year, 
so extra cells would not work. I do know Basic (I started my coding 
career using Basic on an Atari 400 in 1986) but would much rather use 
the built-in functions of Calc. Is there a reason that AVERAGEIF and 
COUNTIF will not work with data on other sheets? I would REALLY prefer 
for this to just work, rather than coding in more things that I will 
have to maintain in the future. In other words, is there any possible 
way to do this in LO? MSO can do this easily, but we switched to LO a 
few years back at my suggestion to save thousands of dollars and it has 
worked wonderfully for us, but Calc seems to have a few issues where 
Excel does not. I will say though, that this is the first issue I have 
been unable to solve on my own.


On 1/4/2014 8:28 PM, Paul wrote:

One way would be to add a second cell to each sheet, say H36, that has
a simple "IF(H53>0,1,0)", then on the cover sheet your formula could be
something like
"=(January.H35+Fenruary.H35+...)/(January.H36+February.H36+...)". Of
course you would need to type in all the actual cell references instead
of the ellipses. Better yet would be to split that cover cell into
three cells, one for the sum of all H35 cells, one for the sum of all
H36 cells, and one for the averaging of those two numbers. I'm a fan of
having such intermediate calculations in the spreadsheet. Things get
much simpler (and therefore easier to debug and modify) when you
include intermediate steps and don't try to do too much in one cell.

If adding another cell (or cells) is out of the question, it could all
be done in a user function, say in LO Basic. That would require you to
code a user defined function, and I'm not sure how familiar you are
with that. Depending on your point of view, a user defined function
might be either a more or a less elegant solution, and more or less
difficult to change in future.

Maybe someone else knows a way to do it using existing functions, but I
can only think of those two approaches offhand.

Paul



On Sat, 04 Jan 2014 19:10:11 -0500
Ryan Ashley wrote:


I have developed a spreadsheet which contains a sheet for the cover
and basic information as well as one sheet for every month. There is
a cell with a number on every sheet at location H35. I want the
average of all of those which are not zero on the first sheet. I
initially tried using "AVERAGEIF(January.H35:December.H35, ">0")",
but it keeps giving me error 504. I then tried the formula below,
which uses COUNTIF, but the part with COUNTIF in it causes a 504
also. If I cannot use COUNTIF or AVERAGEIF, how do I get an average
of cell H35 on each sheet where H35 is greater than zero?






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Re: [libreoffice-users] Calc cross-sheet issue with COUNTIF and AVERAGEIF...

[Paul]

Well, I *think* the issue is with using the functions on a range that
is across worksheets. I don't think you can do that, but then again, I
don't think you can do this in MSO either, but you seem to think that
MSO can do this, so my assumption appears to be wrong, and as such
might be wrong for LO too.

You are right that builtin functions would be the nicest solution.
Given that this is for printing, I would normally recommend a user
function because I would assume that the builtin functions cannot do
cross-worksheet ranges. As to extra cells, extra columns can be created
and then hidden, such that they won't print, or extra worksheets that
won't be printed can be used for the intermediate calculations, so this
might get you around the issue.

I will look into this further, but it's bedtime now :) (Actually 5 am
already... *groan*), so I'm going to leave this until tomorrow, and if
none of the brighter minds have solved this by then, I'll have another
attempt.

Paul

PS. Are you *sure* MSO can do cross worksheet ranges in functions like
this?



On Sat, 04 Jan 2014 21:38:23 -0500
Ryan Ashley  wrote:

> Well I have designed the sheets to be printed at the end of each
> year, so extra cells would not work. I do know Basic (I started my
> coding career using Basic on an Atari 400 in 1986) but would much
> rather use the built-in functions of Calc. Is there a reason that
> AVERAGEIF and COUNTIF will not work with data on other sheets? I
> would REALLY prefer for this to just work, rather than coding in more
> things that I will have to maintain in the future. In other words, is
> there any possible way to do this in LO? MSO can do this easily, but
> we switched to LO a few years back at my suggestion to save thousands
> of dollars and it has worked wonderfully for us, but Calc seems to
> have a few issues where Excel does not. I will say though, that this
> is the first issue I have been unable to solve on my own.
> 
> On 1/4/2014 8:28 PM, Paul wrote:
> > One way would be to add a second cell to each sheet, say H36, that
> > has a simple "IF(H53>0,1,0)", then on the cover sheet your formula
> > could be something like
> > "=(January.H35+Fenruary.H35+...)/(January.H36+February.H36+...)". Of
> > course you would need to type in all the actual cell references
> > instead of the ellipses. Better yet would be to split that cover
> > cell into three cells, one for the sum of all H35 cells, one for
> > the sum of all H36 cells, and one for the averaging of those two
> > numbers. I'm a fan of having such intermediate calculations in the
> > spreadsheet. Things get much simpler (and therefore easier to debug
> > and modify) when you include intermediate steps and don't try to do
> > too much in one cell.
> >
> > If adding another cell (or cells) is out of the question, it could
> > all be done in a user function, say in LO Basic. That would require
> > you to code a user defined function, and I'm not sure how familiar
> > you are with that. Depending on your point of view, a user defined
> > function might be either a more or a less elegant solution, and
> > more or less difficult to change in future.
> >
> > Maybe someone else knows a way to do it using existing functions,
> > but I can only think of those two approaches offhand.
> >
> > Paul
> >
> >
> >
> > On Sat, 04 Jan 2014 19:10:11 -0500
> > Ryan Ashley wrote:
> >
> >> I have developed a spreadsheet which contains a sheet for the cover
> >> and basic information as well as one sheet for every month. There
> >> is a cell with a number on every sheet at location H35. I want the
> >> average of all of those which are not zero on the first sheet. I
> >> initially tried using "AVERAGEIF(January.H35:December.H35, ">0")",
> >> but it keeps giving me error 504. I then tried the formula below,
> >> which uses COUNTIF, but the part with COUNTIF in it causes a 504
> >> also. If I cannot use COUNTIF or AVERAGEIF, how do I get an average
> >> of cell H35 on each sheet where H35 is greater than zero?
> >>
> >
> 
> 


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Re: [libreoffice-users] Calc cross-sheet issue with COUNTIF and AVERAGEIF...

[Brian Barker]

At 19:10 04/01/2014 -0500, Ryan Ashley wrote:
I have developed a spreadsheet which contains a sheet for the cover 
and basic information as well as one sheet for every month. There is 
a cell with a number on every sheet at location H35. I want the 
average of all of those which are not zero on the first sheet. I 
initially tried using "AVERAGEIF(January.H35:December.H35, ">0")", 
but it keeps giving me error 504.


This sounds a bug: AVERAGE() works on a cross-sheet range, so I don't 
see why AVERAGEIF() shouldn't.



I then tried the formula below, ...


Er, I don't see a formula below ...


... which uses COUNTIF, but the part with COUNTIF in it causes a 504 also.


Isn't that also a bug?

At 03:28 05/01/2014 +0200, Paul Steyn wrote:
One way would be to add a second cell to each sheet, say H36, that 
has a simple "IF(H53>0,1,0)", then on the cover sheet your formula 
could be something like

=(January.H35+February.H35+...)/(January.H36+February.H36+...)
Of course you would need to type in all the actual cell references 
instead of the ellipses.


Since SUM() *does* work on cross-sheet ranges, you could simplify this to
=SUM(January.H35:December.H35)/SUM(January.H36:December.H36)


Maybe someone else knows a way to do it using existing functions, ...


Keep watching.

At 21:38 04/01/2014 -0500, Ryan Ashley wrote:
Well I have designed the sheets to be printed at the end of each 
year, so extra cells would not work.


That is no problem: the intermediate cells could be on other sheets 
or simply outside the print range.  Another way of using intermediate 
values would be simply to have a range of twelve cells on your first 
sheet that simply contain =January.H35 and so on.  If preferred, this 
range could be outside your print range - or even 
hidden.  AVERAGEIF() should then work straightforwardly on this range 
of copies.


Is there a reason that AVERAGEIF and COUNTIF will not work with data 
on other sheets?


Not that I can see.


... is there any possible way to do this in LO?


This is a messy workaround, but it appears to work:
=SUM(January.H35:December.H35)/(COUNT(January.H35:December.H35)-FREQUENCY(January.H35:December.H35;0))

I trust this helps.

Brian Barker


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Re: [libreoffice-users] Calc cross-sheet issue with COUNTIF and AVERAGEIF...

[Ryan Ashley]

All functions I tried worked cross-sheet except AVERAGEIF and COUNTIF, so I am 
assuming this is a bug. If AVERAGEIF would work this would be so simple. I am 
away from home right now but will send the formula tomorrow.

Sent from my Verizon Wireless 4G LTE smartphone

 Original message 
From: Brian Barker  
Date:2014/01/04  23:12  (GMT-05:00) 
To: users@global.libreoffice.org 
Subject: Re: [libreoffice-users] Calc cross-sheet issue with COUNTIF
  and AVERAGEIF... 

At 19:10 04/01/2014 -0500, Ryan Ashley wrote:
>I have developed a spreadsheet which contains a sheet for the cover 
>and basic information as well as one sheet for every month. There is 
>a cell with a number on every sheet at location H35. I want the 
>average of all of those which are not zero on the first sheet. I 
>initially tried using "AVERAGEIF(January.H35:December.H35, ">0")", 
>but it keeps giving me error 504.

This sounds a bug: AVERAGE() works on a cross-sheet range, so I don't 
see why AVERAGEIF() shouldn't.

>I then tried the formula below, ...

Er, I don't see a formula below ...

>... which uses COUNTIF, but the part with COUNTIF in it causes a 504 also.

Isn't that also a bug?

At 03:28 05/01/2014 +0200, Paul Steyn wrote:
>One way would be to add a second cell to each sheet, say H36, that 
>has a simple "IF(H53>0,1,0)", then on the cover sheet your formula 
>could be something like
>=(January.H35+February.H35+...)/(January.H36+February.H36+...)
>Of course you would need to type in all the actual cell references 
>instead of the ellipses.

Since SUM() *does* work on cross-sheet ranges, you could simplify this to
=SUM(January.H35:December.H35)/SUM(January.H36:December.H36)

>Maybe someone else knows a way to do it using existing functions, ...

Keep watching.

At 21:38 04/01/2014 -0500, Ryan Ashley wrote:
>Well I have designed the sheets to be printed at the end of each 
>year, so extra cells would not work.

That is no problem: the intermediate cells could be on other sheets 
or simply outside the print range.  Another way of using intermediate 
values would be simply to have a range of twelve cells on your first 
sheet that simply contain =January.H35 and so on.  If preferred, this 
range could be outside your print range - or even 
hidden.  AVERAGEIF() should then work straightforwardly on this range 
of copies.

>Is there a reason that AVERAGEIF and COUNTIF will not work with data 
>on other sheets?

Not that I can see.

>... is there any possible way to do this in LO?

This is a messy workaround, but it appears to work:
=SUM(January.H35:December.H35)/(COUNT(January.H35:December.H35)-FREQUENCY(January.H35:December.H35;0))

I trust this helps.

Brian Barker


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Re: [libreoffice-users] Calc cross-sheet issue with COUNTIF and AVERAGEIF...

[Hylton Conacher (ZR1HPC)]

On 05/01/14 02:10, Ryan Ashley wrote:

I have developed a spreadsheet which contains a sheet for the cover and
basic information as well as one sheet for every month. There is a cell
with a number on every sheet at location H35. I want the average of all
of those which are not zero on the first sheet. I initially tried using
"AVERAGEIF(January.H35:December.H35, ">0")", but it keeps giving me
error 504. I then tried the formula below, which uses COUNTIF, but the
part with COUNTIF in it causes a 504 also. If I cannot use COUNTIF or
AVERAGEIF, how do I get an average of cell H35 on each sheet where H35
is greater than zero?


It certainly sounds like a bug however that being said, but perhaps your 
AVERAGEIF formula needs work.


Unfortunately my older version of LO does not have AVERAGEIF so I cannot 
check the syntax. Perhaps 
 will have the 
answer for you.


Post the answer here or the bug number on this thread.

Hope you come right.

Hylton
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Hylton is a Lions Club member of Lions Club of Fish Hoek (District 410A)
http://www.fishhoeklionsclub.org.za being part of the worlds
largest non profit NGO




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