Re: [libreoffice-users] Cooperation in the implementation of LibreOffice
On Thu, Dec 26, 2013 at 08:24:48PM +, Tom Davies wrote: Hi :) Ahh, i love to see these urban myths grow. ...snip.. Wow! Never realized it was an urban legendhowever, it's only that if it *never* happened. Any info on that? -- Bob Holtzman Your mail is being read by tight lipped NSA agents who fail to see humor in Doctor Strangelove Key ID 8D549279 -- To unsubscribe e-mail to: users+unsubscr...@global.libreoffice.org Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/users/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
Re: [libreoffice-users] Cooperation in the implementation of LibreOffice
Hi :) Sorry! I've been a total moron with that and other recent posts haven't i :( Sorry about that! Apols and regards from Tom :) On 27 December 2013 18:16, Robert Holtzman hol...@cox.net wrote: On Thu, Dec 26, 2013 at 08:24:48PM +, Tom Davies wrote: Hi :) Ahh, i love to see these urban myths grow. ...snip.. Wow! Never realized it was an urban legendhowever, it's only that if it *never* happened. Any info on that? -- Bob Holtzman Your mail is being read by tight lipped NSA agents who fail to see humor in Doctor Strangelove Key ID 8D549279 -- To unsubscribe e-mail to: users+unsubscr...@global.libreoffice.org Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/users/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
Re: [libreoffice-users] Cooperation in the implementation of LibreOffice
Hi :) No worries! It was good to hear from you and also good to get a chuckle on a day which is otherwise quite depressing or annoying for a lot of people. Plus, i had been taking the initial post wy too seriously before you pointed out 'the obvious'. Then, to cheer myself up further, i looked for BolgenOS. Apparently the story has moved on. It started years ago with a Russian school-kid forking Ubuntu and replacing all the logos with his own one, allegedly including for 3rd party apps such as Firefox (although i can't quite believe that bit and you'll see why). When he presented it to his IT Tutor as all his own work (which i also have trouble believing but lets not mess-up the story!) the tutor really believed the kid had really knocked Microsquish for six. The national news covered the story with a mini-documentary about how this kid had apparently knocked-up something that rivalled MS Windows and further exaggerated it that he'd done it over a couple weeks holiday, or maybe just a weekend! Then the national school board 'looked into it' and got so excited about it that they were allegedly keen to roll it out across all schools across the nation after first test-driving it in a few districts. Apparently BolgenOS continues but now admits to being a fork and has put the relevant logos back. There are some claims that the community has reached around 10 million people but having looked at the site i find that hard to believe. The main thing is that it seems to still be supported and has followers. When my mum went to college she was set an assignment to write a short ditty for music classes. Suddenly a short refrain popped into her head that she couldn't recognise it from anywhere so she wrote it down quickly and handed it in and got a B + for it. Later the teacher played it and my mum was shocked to hear it was Beethoven's 5th, well maybe not that one as it's the number 1 most easily recognisable piece and even says it's own name over and over again in the music, but something along those lines. My mum went a bit red but none of the other music students recognised it and neither did the teacher!!! The bit i find most amusing is that the music teacher thought Beethoven (or whoever) was only worthy of a B+. Obviously a LOT of people were upset about the BolgenOS story but for me the most upsetting part was that 1. an IT Tutor had no idea about non-MS OSes. Even if he/she was a more generic science teacher i'd have hoped for a little less ignorance! That national news put the work into filming a mini-documentary but failed to do any kind of research into trying to find similar examples is no surprise. There ARE a lot of good journos out there but sensationalism seems more profitable most of the time. 2. That the school-boards might flee back to MS to avoid the embarrassment rather than latch onto the stronger OSes that have better support-structures. Of course the Russian and other space-programmes are largely built on unix and unix-based platforms, certainly for their commandcontrol critical systems. Amusingly on the space station they occasionally have to send up someone to fix all the astronaughts/cosmonaughts laptops and free them from viruses, malware etc. Apparently at least once all the laptops went down due to malware. However none of the commandcontrol systems have needed as much as a reboot in all the decades they have been up there. There was some talk of the laptops going over to Linux too but i dunno if it ever happened. Regards from Tom :) On 26 December 2013 05:57, Robert Holtzman hol...@cox.net wrote: On Wed, Dec 25, 2013 at 10:53:28PM +, Tom Davies wrote: Hi :) I don't think it's good policy to be rude to trolls. One of the things they are aiming for is to make the list seem unfriendly and then be able to quote those examples out-of-context. As I said at the top of my reply, I seldom reply to FUD but I had time on my hands and was bored. Beside, sometimes I just like to declare open season on trolls. ..snip. -- Bob Holtzman Your mail is being read by tight lipped NSA agents who fail to see humor in Doctor Strangelove Key ID 8D549279 -- To unsubscribe e-mail to: users+unsubscr...@global.libreoffice.org Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/users/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
Re: [libreoffice-users] Cooperation in the implementation of LibreOffice
On Thu, Dec 26, 2013 at 12:11:30PM +, Tom Davies wrote: Hi :) No worries! It was good to hear from you and also good to get a chuckle on a day which is otherwise quite depressing or annoying for a lot of people. Plus, i had been taking the initial post wy too seriously before you pointed out 'the obvious'. No problem. Actually, I like to see stuff like this occasionally. It breaks up the monotony. ...snip.. Obviously a LOT of people were upset about the BolgenOS story but for me the most upsetting part was that 1. an IT Tutor had no idea about non-MS OSes. Even if he/she was a more generic science teacher i'd have hoped for a little less ignorance! That's common in the school systems. There's a story circulating about a principal who reamed some kid for using linux, telling him that that's a hacker's OS. Yeah, it makes me livid too. ...snip... Take care. -- Bob Holtzman Your mail is being read by tight lipped NSA agents who fail to see humor in Doctor Strangelove Key ID 8D549279 -- To unsubscribe e-mail to: users+unsubscr...@global.libreoffice.org Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/users/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
[libreoffice-users] Cooperation in the implementation of LibreOffice
Hello, my name is Alexander , at the moment I am a programmer in OGAOU SPO Belgorod College of industry and services , country: Russia , city of Belgorod. I want to introduce into commercial operation institution package LibreOffice as an alternative package of MS Office, in order to move to the format ODF, which in our country is a national fixed state standard ( ISO / IEC 26300-2010 . Came into force on June 1, 2011 ) . However , implementation of this project gives me concerns about the advisability of this step for the following reasons : I know in many business organizations and educational institutions was an attempt to introduce LibreOffice and OpenOffice, but they all failed. Even where people were friendly to the use of these products later returned to the MS Office package due to the low quality software LibreOffice and OpenOffice ( because of the continuing occurrence of bugs and endless expectations of new releases in which errors have not been corrected ), the appearance artifacts for viewing and printing of documents created in MS Office and other non- ODF (Open Document Format). In general, the situation is that there is a standard but actually exists only on paper , in addition to MS Office 2013 support is implemented ODF, which makes it even more attractive to use. In my opinion , free software does not justify its poor quality. Many IT professionals and PC users have an opinion about LibreOffice and OpenOffice as a shitty software, which can not be used in the workplace. In contrast to system administrators trying to implement packages LibreOffice or OpenOffice, I am a professional programmer and familiar with the process of software development. In my opinion the industrial application package LibreOffice is possible, but subject to personal contact with the immediate developers package their interest in creating a quality product and responsiveness to the comments , suggestions for improvement and immediate response on the error of the package , as well as providing operational fixes without having to wait for the official release. I believe that developers care about their product and frankly, I know that in the case to contact technical support patches can wait for years , and a direct appeal to the developer can take it to cure is not more than 15 minutes . My idea is to introduce a distinctive package LibreOffice is in close interaction directly with the developers and their interest in this cooperation . As a result of successful implementation , the package will have the right to life and begin to be implemented in other educational institutions of Russia ( as exists between educational institutions experience exchange program , usually a methodological associations ) , as well information about the successful implementation of the same will go to the Ministry of Education of the Russian Federation and respectively wave on other ministries. This collaboration will raise the quality of software , as it will be used in the work (in the battle conditions and not on the bench) . Waiting for your reply on this proposal and look forward to working ... Alexander. -- To unsubscribe e-mail to: users+unsubscr...@global.libreoffice.org Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/users/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
Re: [libreoffice-users] Cooperation in the implementation of LibreOffice
On Wed, Dec 25, 2013 at 03:32:47PM +0400, None None wrote: Normally I don't reply to such blatant FUD but I have a lot of free time today and I'm bored. Hello, my name is Alexander , at the moment I am a programmer in OGAOU SPO Belgorod College of industry and services , country: Russia , city of Belgorod. I want to introduce into commercial operation institution package LibreOffice as an alternative package of MS Office, in order to move to the format ODF, which in our country is a national fixed state standard ( ISO / IEC 26300-2010 . Came into force on June 1, 2011 ) . However , implementation of this project gives me concerns about the advisability of this step for the following reasons : What does your country's implementation of ODF have to do with open source software? I know in many business organizations and educational institutions was an attempt to introduce LibreOffice and OpenOffice, but they all failed. Even where people were friendly to the use of these products later returned to the MS Office package due to the low quality software LibreOffice and OpenOffice ( because of the continuing occurrence of bugs and endless expectations of new releases in which errors have not been corrected ), the appearance artifacts for viewing and printing of documents created in MS Office and other non- ODF (Open Document Format). In general, the situation is that there is a standard but actually exists only on paper , in addition to MS Office 2013 support is implemented ODF, which makes it even more attractive to use. The above is a symptom of lazy or incompetent IT departments that don't or can't learn to use the software. In my opinion , free software does not justify its poor quality. Many IT professionals and PC users have an opinion about LibreOffice and OpenOffice as a shitty software, which can not be used in the workplace. You're right, that's *your* opinion. How do you account for the fact that open source software is in worldwide use every day in production environments. Just few of the many cites: http://www.infoworld.com/d/developer-world/open-source-what-you-should-learn-french-461 http://opensource.com/government/12/11/france-latest-fully-embrace-open-source http://news.cnet.com/2100-1001-272299.html In contrast to system administrators trying to implement packages LibreOffice or OpenOffice, I am a professional programmer and familiar with the process of software development. In my opinion the industrial application package LibreOffice is possible, but subject to personal contact with the immediate developers package their interest in creating a quality product and responsiveness to the comments , suggestions for improvement and immediate response on the error of the package , as well as providing operational fixes without having to wait for the official release. I believe that developers care about their product and frankly, I know that in the case to contact technical support patches can wait for years That's a feature of some closed source software, notably Microsoft. You can email them with your concerns until you're blue in the face and they will produce an update months later if then. Open source developers will cure problems usually in a few days. and a direct appeal to the developer can take it to cure is not more than 15 minutes . You must think that developers have nothing to do but wait for you to contact them. They're not on your payroll. 15 minutes is laughable except for isolated instances, not in general. Also, as a programmer, as you claim to be, you should know a 15 minute fix to a problem can introduce more bugs than it cures. My idea is to introduce a distinctive package LibreOffice is in close interaction directly with the developers and their interest in this cooperation . What in the hell does the above sentence mean? As a result of successful implementation , the package will have the right to life What does the right to life mean? and begin to be implemented in other educational institutions of Russia ( as exists between educational institutions experience exchange program , usually a methodological associations ) , as well information about the successful implementation of the same will go to the Ministry of Education of the Russian Federation and respectively wave on other ministries. This collaboration will raise the quality of software , as it will be used in the work (in the battle conditions and not on the bench) . Waiting for your reply on this proposal and look forward to working ... Don't hold your breath waiting. What tells me you're a troll is the fact that you don't know what you're talking about. If you actually are a programmer you would know better. Also you're using a broken mailer that puts long passages on one line and makes inline replies very difficult. -- Bob Holtzman Your mail is being read by tight lipped NSA agents who
Re: [libreoffice-users] Cooperation in the implementation of LibreOffice
On Wed, Dec 25, 2013 at 10:53:28PM +, Tom Davies wrote: Hi :) I don't think it's good policy to be rude to trolls. One of the things they are aiming for is to make the list seem unfriendly and then be able to quote those examples out-of-context. As I said at the top of my reply, I seldom reply to FUD but I had time on my hands and was bored. Beside, sometimes I just like to declare open season on trolls. ..snip. -- Bob Holtzman Your mail is being read by tight lipped NSA agents who fail to see humor in Doctor Strangelove Key ID 8D549279 -- To unsubscribe e-mail to: users+unsubscr...@global.libreoffice.org Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/users/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
Re: [libreoffice-users] Cooperation in the implementation of LibreOffice
Hi :) I don't think it's good policy to be rude to trolls. One of the things they are aiming for is to make the list seem unfriendly and then be able to quote those examples out-of-context. I agree with most of the points but just feel they could have been explained less antagonistically. On the other hand it was good fun to read and made me chortle a bit! :) Wrt formats i wasn't sure whether; 1. we were getting the blame for not being able to correctly read proprietary implementations of formats where the specs are unavailable or 2. we were getting the blame for MS failing to implement ISO standards correctly where the specs are easily available In either case it seems the fault of MS, rather than us, so maybe do try posting a bug-report where-ever you are getting 15min responses from! If MS could implement their own spec correctly (or the one we use, or both) then it really might make interoperability a reality. Then almost no-one would ever need to buy any new versions of MS Office because even really old versions did everything almost all of us need and tons more too. Regards from Tom :) On 25 December 2013 19:45, Robert Holtzman hol...@cox.net wrote: On Wed, Dec 25, 2013 at 03:32:47PM +0400, None None wrote: Normally I don't reply to such blatant FUD but I have a lot of free time today and I'm bored. Hello, my name is Alexander , at the moment I am a programmer in OGAOU SPO Belgorod College of industry and services , country: Russia , city of Belgorod. I want to introduce into commercial operation institution package LibreOffice as an alternative package of MS Office, in order to move to the format ODF, which in our country is a national fixed state standard ( ISO / IEC 26300-2010 . Came into force on June 1, 2011 ) . However , implementation of this project gives me concerns about the advisability of this step for the following reasons : What does your country's implementation of ODF have to do with open source software? I know in many business organizations and educational institutions was an attempt to introduce LibreOffice and OpenOffice, but they all failed. Even where people were friendly to the use of these products later returned to the MS Office package due to the low quality software LibreOffice and OpenOffice ( because of the continuing occurrence of bugs and endless expectations of new releases in which errors have not been corrected ), the appearance artifacts for viewing and printing of documents created in MS Office and other non- ODF (Open Document Format). In general, the situation is that there is a standard but actually exists only on paper , in addition to MS Office 2013 support is implemented ODF, which makes it even more attractive to use. The above is a symptom of lazy or incompetent IT departments that don't or can't learn to use the software. In my opinion , free software does not justify its poor quality. Many IT professionals and PC users have an opinion about LibreOffice and OpenOffice as a shitty software, which can not be used in the workplace. You're right, that's *your* opinion. How do you account for the fact that open source software is in worldwide use every day in production environments. Just few of the many cites: http://www.infoworld.com/d/developer-world/open-source-what-you-should-learn-french-461 http://opensource.com/government/12/11/france-latest-fully-embrace-open-source http://news.cnet.com/2100-1001-272299.html In contrast to system administrators trying to implement packages LibreOffice or OpenOffice, I am a professional programmer and familiar with the process of software development. In my opinion the industrial application package LibreOffice is possible, but subject to personal contact with the immediate developers package their interest in creating a quality product and responsiveness to the comments , suggestions for improvement and immediate response on the error of the package , as well as providing operational fixes without having to wait for the official release. I believe that developers care about their product and frankly, I know that in the case to contact technical support patches can wait for years That's a feature of some closed source software, notably Microsoft. You can email them with your concerns until you're blue in the face and they will produce an update months later if then. Open source developers will cure problems usually in a few days. and a direct appeal to the developer can take it to cure is not more than 15 minutes . You must think that developers have nothing to do but wait for you to contact them. They're not on your payroll. 15 minutes is laughable except for isolated instances, not in general. Also, as a programmer, as you claim to be, you should know a 15 minute fix to a problem can introduce more bugs than it cures. My idea is to introduce a distinctive package LibreOffice is in close
