Re: [libreoffice-users] Re: Calc will not save file after sheet deleted [RETORT TO FLAMEBAIT; DNFTT]
Hi :) Oh no, Not that old flame-war again! lol We have very adamant fan-boys (and ladies) on all 3 sides of this on-going argument all with legitimate and great reasons why their way is the only acceptable way and everyone else is a moron. Please, lets not go there again! Regards from Tom :) From: Dave Sergeant d...@davesergeant.com To: users@global.libreoffice.org Sent: Tue, 16 August, 2011 6:56:06 Subject: [libreoffice-users] Re: Calc will not save file after sheet deleted [RETORT TO FLAMEBAIT; DNFTT] Yes, with your name you should certainly have no need to remember to crop Many lists now recommend top posting, as that is far better when folks read it on mobile devices. There seem to be a lot of posts on here where the actually reply is a few lines right at the bottom of acres of quoting. Dave On 16 Aug 2011 at 12:22, Simon Cropper wrote: And don't forget to trim Sorry :) http://www.davesergeant.com -- For unsubscribe instructions e-mail to: users+h...@global.libreoffice.org Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/users/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
Re: [libreoffice-users] Re: Calc will not save file after sheet deleted [RETORT TO FLAMEBAIT; DNFTT]
On 16/08/11 9:41 PM, Tom Davies wrote: Hi :) Oh no, Not that old flame-war again! lol We have very adamant fan-boys (and ladies) on all 3 sides of this on-going argument all with legitimate and great reasons why their way is the only acceptable way and everyone else is a moron. Please, lets not go there again! Regards from Tom :) From: Dave Sergeantd...@davesergeant.com To: users@global.libreoffice.org Sent: Tue, 16 August, 2011 6:56:06 Subject: [libreoffice-users] Re: Calc will not save file after sheet deleted [RETORT TO FLAMEBAIT; DNFTT] Yes, with your name you should certainly have no need to remember to crop Many lists now recommend top posting, as that is far better when folks read it on mobile devices. There seem to be a lot of posts on here where the actually reply is a few lines right at the bottom of acres of quoting. Dave On 16 Aug 2011 at 12:22, Simon Cropper wrote: And don't forget to trim Sorry :) http://www.davesergeant.com Lets stir it, if we had a forum (like the old OOO one) there wouldn't be an argument on top or bottom posting. I've read all the arguments, there are pros and cons for both (top/bottom, list/forum, the field is divided, so I just go with the flow. I do object to trimming tho' because it wastes time trying to find all the trimmings to see the full discussion. steve -- For unsubscribe instructions e-mail to: users+h...@global.libreoffice.org Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/users/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
Re: [libreoffice-users] Re: Calc will not save file after sheet deleted [RETORT TO FLAMEBAIT; DNFTT]
Hi :) +1 I think Twayne was showing his sense of humour again. In England good friends often do petty jibes at each other in that way. The better the friendship the more outrageous the jibes/jokes. The problem imo is how people outside that friendship view it. A non-native English speaker might be terrified to learn the level of precision apparently required. On the other hand jokes/jibes like that can often release tension. The next comment by someone else about snipping was hilarious imo but again it's easy to read it in a different way from the way it was intended. If we were all in a pub or at a cocktail party or other social gathering the meaning would have been clearer from body-language and facial expressions. Sadly (or perhaps fortunately in my case) all we see are the words printed on the screen. Regards from Tom :) From: Simon Cropper scrop...@botanicusaustralia.com.au To: users@global.libreoffice.org; twa...@twaynesdomain.com Sent: Tue, 16 August, 2011 2:41:21 Subject: Re: [libreoffice-users] Re: Calc will not save file after sheet deleted [RETORT TO FLAMEBAIT; DNFTT] snip / Thank you for your feedback, albeit off topic. I take your point and will endeavour to ensure my colloquial tongue does not make it to the page again. snip / a polite email to me privately would have sufficed, if you actually did not know what I was saying. snip / -- For unsubscribe instructions e-mail to: users+h...@global.libreoffice.org Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/users/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
Re: [libreoffice-users] Re: Calc will not save file after sheet deleted [RETORT TO FLAMEBAIT; DNFTT]
Hi :) Lol, superb. Great comedy timing! Now we might get a flame-war about which flame-war is more important! Lol!! Regards from Tom :) From: Steve Edmonds steve.edmo...@ptglobal.com To: users@global.libreoffice.org Sent: Tue, 16 August, 2011 10:57:05 Subject: Re: [libreoffice-users] Re: Calc will not save file after sheet deleted [RETORT TO FLAMEBAIT; DNFTT] On 16/08/11 9:41 PM, Tom Davies wrote: Hi :) Oh no, Not that old flame-war again! lol We have very adamant fan-boys (and ladies) on all 3 sides of this on-going argument all with legitimate and great reasons why their way is the only acceptable way and everyone else is a moron. Please, lets not go there again! Regards from Tom :) From: Dave Sergeantd...@davesergeant.com To: users@global.libreoffice.org Sent: Tue, 16 August, 2011 6:56:06 Subject: [libreoffice-users] Re: Calc will not save file after sheet deleted [RETORT TO FLAMEBAIT; DNFTT] Yes, with your name you should certainly have no need to remember to crop Many lists now recommend top posting, as that is far better when folks read it on mobile devices. There seem to be a lot of posts on here where the actually reply is a few lines right at the bottom of acres of quoting. Dave On 16 Aug 2011 at 12:22, Simon Cropper wrote: And don't forget to trim Sorry :) http://www.davesergeant.com Lets stir it, if we had a forum (like the old OOO one) there wouldn't be an argument on top or bottom posting. I've read all the arguments, there are pros and cons for both (top/bottom, list/forum, the field is divided, so I just go with the flow. I do object to trimming tho' because it wastes time trying to find all the trimmings to see the full discussion. steve -- For unsubscribe instructions e-mail to: users+h...@global.libreoffice.org Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/users/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted -- For unsubscribe instructions e-mail to: users+h...@global.libreoffice.org Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/users/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
[libreoffice-users] Re: Calc will not save file after sheet deleted[FOLLOW-UP; CAUSE IDENTIFIED]
In news:4e4867e6.8030...@botanicusaustralia.com.au, Simon Cropper scrop...@botanicusaustralia.com.au typed: On 12/08/11 14:38, planas wrote: On Fri, 2011-08-12 at 13:52 +1000, Simon Cropper wrote: Hi Everyone, I have been doing some follow-up investigations that I thought you might like to be made aware. First, why? Well after testing the file that I recreated by copying the text, formula and styles I could not cause the error to occur again. This is what I reported yesterday. I then proceeded with importing the few images and 'artwork' objects from the old file to the new. After several saves and sheet manipulations I noticed the file became unstable again. The outcome of my investigation was that one of the image files used on one of the sheets had become corrupted* and adding this file in caused the file to become unstable - eventually exhibiting the problem I mentioned about not being able to save after a sheet was deleted. These 'corrupted' files are relatively benign with the error only becoming apparent *once* you attempt to delete the sheet. So somehow the error caused problems with the broader 'workbook' structure not the sheet structure. Although I compared files between different versions of the file the XML were too varied (usually style names and definitions; content was identical). * note I say corrupted but it rendered OK and only resulted in the observed behaviour one a sheet is deleted. I 'deem' it corrupted as once replaced with a clean version render and saved as a new file by GIMP, the problem disappeared. The error was with the particular corrupt objects. On recreating new images and inserting them into a file I have not been able to trigger any problems. If I cut-and-paste from the original 'corrupt' file the file becomes unstable after a few saves and sheet manipulations. So the steps for salvage is... 1. recreate a new file with the exact number of sheets as the original. Ensure each sheet names are the same. 2. Cut and Paste each sheet. Make sure you 'Paste special' limiting the content being placed in the new file to text, numbers, date time, formulas and formats. 3. If you have images in the file. Recreate / Save using another package. As mentioned I used GIMP. 4. Insert new copies of the images into file. *Don't* cut-and-paste objects from the old file. 5. If you have any lines, text boxes and artwork; recreate them from new. During this process... - Save as a new version (+tabs, +data, +images, +other objects) following each step. - Test each version thoroughly before proceeding. - Only add one object at a time, so if something goes wrong you can isolate the problem component. - To check it is not a bug try and recreate with a fresh file. A couple of quick notes that may be valuable to others... - ODS files are archives. Use an archive facility to extract the data inside. Inspect the contents in the folders to see what is different. - On every 'Save as' the file size changes. This is not due to changes in the file contents, but rather in changes in how the components of the file is compressed/archived. If you open a file, add objects then save, the file size with be so big. Open that file and Save as a new name and the file will be a different size. If you extract the files the contents of all the files and directories are identical. It is just the internal archive facility in LO will decide the best compaction routine based on what it encounters. - The content.xml file can be quite large and has no internal end-of-line characters. This make it difficult to open and be parse by various text editors, xml viewers and comparison facilities. To insert a EOL character after the end of each tag (i.e.), I used the following command in the terminal (requires Linux). cat content.xml | sed -e 's//\n/g' content_with_linebreaks.xml cat just spews the content of the text file to the standard output. I then pipe it to sed, where I used regular expressions to find '' and replace every instance of it with '\n'. I then compared the contents with Diffuse. Snip +1 I wonder how the images got corrupted, interesting. Good question and something I was not happy just leaving alone. Once I satisfied myself that this was most likely not a bug but file corruption the questions that came to mind were... (1) How this file became corrupted? and (2) How extensive is the damage (physical damage, system wide, file specific)? As mentioned I currently use Linux so needed to find a method to check the file system for errors and see if any blocks or clusters were damaged. I am assuming here that I could of had a power spike or jolt to my machine that could of caused the platter on my hard disk becoming damaged. I did this by running 'fsck.ext4' from a LiveCD on all my hard disks. It took all Saturday to do this. Thankfully no errors were detected. Anyone interested
Re: [libreoffice-users] Re: Calc will not save file after sheet deleted[FOLLOW-UP; CAUSE IDENTIFIED]
Hi :) English has grown in many different directions. Pick any 'owsin' estate round my way guv an you'll ear some riiite crackers an no mistake. Enuf t make your hair curl ducks. Cor blimey n stone the crows. Eee burrit snot d same just down the cherry and even up the apples it's all said different like. What, what, what, smoke me a kipper, i'll be back for breakfast captain. Could have contracts to Could've which morphs into could of. Hth Regards from Tom :) From: Twayne twa...@twaynesdomain.com To: users@global.libreoffice.org Sent: Mon, 15 August, 2011 17:33:04 Subject: [libreoffice-users] Re: Calc will not save file after sheet deleted[FOLLOW-UP; CAUSE IDENTIFIED] snip / What does could of mean in the context of your usage? It makes no sense. Could have would make sense, but several times you said could of. -- For unsubscribe instructions e-mail to: users+h...@global.libreoffice.org Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/users/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted -- For unsubscribe instructions e-mail to: users+h...@global.libreoffice.org Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/users/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
Re: [libreoffice-users] Re: Calc will not save file after sheet deleted [RETORT TO FLAMEBAIT; DNFTT]
On 16/08/11 02:33, Twayne wrote: In news:4e4867e6.8030...@botanicusaustralia.com.au, Simon Cropperscrop...@botanicusaustralia.com.au typed: On 12/08/11 14:38, planas wrote: On Fri, 2011-08-12 at 13:52 +1000, Simon Cropper wrote: Hi Everyone, I have been doing some follow-up investigations that I thought you might like to be made aware. First, why? Well after testing the file that I recreated by copying the text, formula and styles I could not cause the error to occur again. This is what I reported yesterday. I then proceeded with importing the few images and 'artwork' objects from the old file to the new. After several saves and sheet manipulations I noticed the file became unstable again. The outcome of my investigation was that one of the image files used on one of the sheets had become corrupted* and adding this file in caused the file to become unstable - eventually exhibiting the problem I mentioned about not being able to save after a sheet was deleted. These 'corrupted' files are relatively benign with the error only becoming apparent *once* you attempt to delete the sheet. So somehow the error caused problems with the broader 'workbook' structure not the sheet structure. Although I compared files between different versions of the file the XML were too varied (usually style names and definitions; content was identical). * note I say corrupted but it rendered OK and only resulted in the observed behaviour one a sheet is deleted. I 'deem' it corrupted as once replaced with a clean version render and saved as a new file by GIMP, the problem disappeared. The error was with the particular corrupt objects. On recreating new images and inserting them into a file I have not been able to trigger any problems. If I cut-and-paste from the original 'corrupt' file the file becomes unstable after a few saves and sheet manipulations. So the steps for salvage is... 1. recreate a new file with the exact number of sheets as the original. Ensure each sheet names are the same. 2. Cut and Paste each sheet. Make sure you 'Paste special' limiting the content being placed in the new file to text, numbers, date time, formulas and formats. 3. If you have images in the file. Recreate / Save using another package. As mentioned I used GIMP. 4. Insert new copies of the images into file. *Don't* cut-and-paste objects from the old file. 5. If you have any lines, text boxes and artwork; recreate them from new. During this process... - Save as a new version (+tabs, +data, +images, +other objects) following each step. - Test each version thoroughly before proceeding. - Only add one object at a time, so if something goes wrong you can isolate the problem component. - To check it is not a bug try and recreate with a fresh file. A couple of quick notes that may be valuable to others... - ODS files are archives. Use an archive facility to extract the data inside. Inspect the contents in the folders to see what is different. - On every 'Save as' the file size changes. This is not due to changes in the file contents, but rather in changes in how the components of the file is compressed/archived. If you open a file, add objects then save, the file size with be so big. Open that file and Save as a new name and the file will be a different size. If you extract the files the contents of all the files and directories are identical. It is just the internal archive facility in LO will decide the best compaction routine based on what it encounters. - The content.xml file can be quite large and has no internal end-of-line characters. This make it difficult to open and be parse by various text editors, xml viewers and comparison facilities. To insert a EOL character after the end of each tag (i.e.), I used the following command in the terminal (requires Linux). cat content.xml | sed -e 's//\n/g' content_with_linebreaks.xml cat just spews the content of the text file to the standard output. I then pipe it to sed, where I used regular expressions to find '' and replace every instance of it with '\n'. I then compared the contents with Diffuse. Snip +1 I wonder how the images got corrupted, interesting. Good question and something I was not happy just leaving alone. Once I satisfied myself that this was most likely not a bug but file corruption the questions that came to mind were... (1) How this file became corrupted? and (2) How extensive is the damage (physical damage, system wide, file specific)? As mentioned I currently use Linux so needed to find a method to check the file system for errors and see if any blocks or clusters were damaged. I am assuming here that I could of had a power spike or jolt to my machine that could of caused the platter on my hard disk becoming damaged. I did this by running 'fsck.ext4' from a LiveCD on all my hard disks. It took all Saturday to do this. Thankfully no errors were detected. Anyone interested in how I did this can check out my more specific
[libreoffice-users] Re: Calc will not save file after sheet deleted [RETORT TO FLAMEBAIT; DNFTT]
On 08/15/2011 06:41 PM, Simon Cropper wrote: On 16/08/11 02:33, Twayne wrote: ... What does could of mean in the context of your usage? It makes no sense. Could have would make sense, but several times you said could of. Hello Twayne, Thank you for your feedback, albeit off topic. I take your point and will endeavour to ensure my colloquial tongue does not make it to the page again. I find it a bit pretentious though that you ask what is obviously a rhetorical question - a gibe at the tail end of a lengthy technical discussion - on an international mail list dedicated to discussing the use of a particular program (rather than say a list that is discussing 'grammar' or 'English Usage') and personally I consider it bad etiquette (akin to FlameBait [1]); a polite email to me privately would have sufficed, if you actually did not know what I was saying. In future, if you have the need to surreptitiously dress down someone for a spelling mistake, a grammatical error or maybe an unusual writing style, please refrain yourself from doing it. Participants on most mail lists come from a wide variety of backgrounds and do not appreciated being belittled in public. [1] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flaming_%28Internet%29#Flamebait And don't forget to trim :-) -- For unsubscribe instructions e-mail to: users+h...@global.libreoffice.org Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/users/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
Re: [libreoffice-users] Re: Calc will not save file after sheet deleted [RETORT TO FLAMEBAIT; DNFTT]
On 16/08/11 12:01, NoOp wrote: And don't forget to trim Sorry :) -- Cheers Simon -- For unsubscribe instructions e-mail to: users+h...@global.libreoffice.org Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/users/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
[libreoffice-users] Re: Calc will not save file after sheet deleted [RETORT TO FLAMEBAIT; DNFTT]
Yes, with your name you should certainly have no need to remember to crop Many lists now recommend top posting, as that is far better when folks read it on mobile devices. There seem to be a lot of posts on here where the actually reply is a few lines right at the bottom of acres of quoting. Dave On 16 Aug 2011 at 12:22, Simon Cropper wrote: And don't forget to trim Sorry :) http://www.davesergeant.com -- For unsubscribe instructions e-mail to: users+h...@global.libreoffice.org Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/users/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
[libreoffice-users] Re: Calc will not save file after sheet deleted.
Le 10/08/11 01:46, Simon Cropper a écrit : Hi Simon, If I work back through the historical copies of the file, I can only reproduce the error in this years version. It is as if the file has become partially corrupted. The question is how and can it be easily fixed. Use xmlpp and xmldiff (perl scripts) to compare the content.xml of each ODS between a good (older) file and one of the recent ones where the problem started occurring. You may find that you have some odd difference in the two files that causes the behaviour you mention. Alex -- For unsubscribe instructions e-mail to: users+h...@global.libreoffice.org Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/users/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
[libreoffice-users] Re: Calc will not save file after sheet deleted.
Am 10.08.2011 01:46, Simon Cropper wrote: Hi, I have an old spreadsheet in ODS format. The file was originally an XLS file then converted to ODS format several years ago *and* has been used weekly over that period without any problems. Since the days of OpenOffice.org 1.0 I use the same dBase file together with Calc data pilots as reporting engine. I'm pretty sure that this file will take another 50,000 records during the next 10 years without any problems. Spreadsheets are the worst data storage, regardless if Excel, ODF or whatever. Even a collection of plain text tables is far better than spreadsheets. -- For unsubscribe instructions e-mail to: users+h...@global.libreoffice.org Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/users/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
Re: [libreoffice-users] Re: Calc will not save file after sheet deleted.
Hi :) +1 Hmm, well maybe not the absolute worst. A sieve or broken floppy disc or an ancient format that no program can read might be worse but yes, databases with an audit-trail are much more secure and plain text such as Csv ensure that there will always be some program somewhere that can at least access the data. Regards from Tom :) From: Andreas Säger ville...@t-online.de To: users@global.libreoffice.org Sent: Wed, 10 August, 2011 13:21:23 Subject: [libreoffice-users] Re: Calc will not save file after sheet deleted. Am 10.08.2011 01:46, Simon Cropper wrote: Hi, I have an old spreadsheet in ODS format. The file was originally an XLS file then converted to ODS format several years ago *and* has been used weekly over that period without any problems. Since the days of OpenOffice.org 1.0 I use the same dBase file together with Calc data pilots as reporting engine. I'm pretty sure that this file will take another 50,000 records during the next 10 years without any problems. Spreadsheets are the worst data storage, regardless if Excel, ODF or whatever. Even a collection of plain text tables is far better than spreadsheets. -- For unsubscribe instructions e-mail to: users+h...@global.libreoffice.org Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/users/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted -- For unsubscribe instructions e-mail to: users+h...@global.libreoffice.org Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/users/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
Re: [libreoffice-users] Re: Calc will not save file after sheet deleted.
On 11/08/11 02:53, Tom Davies wrote: Hmm, well maybe not the absolute worst. A sieve or broken floppy disc or an ancient format that no program can read might be worse but yes, databases with an audit-trail are much more secure and plain text such as Csv ensure that there will always be some program somewhere that can at least access the data. I agree but there are no good front ends to the myriad of relational database backends that you can utilise on Linux. I could list tons of SQL engines but as the copious posts on this list about Base attest, there are few decent alternatives for Rapid Application Development, Data Mining or even simple application development available; let alone something that can be integrated into LO. When working on Windows I use Microsoft Visual Foxpro. Fantastic package but now discontinued (and I have moved my primary platform to Ubuntu now!). There is absolutely nothing comparable to it on Linux. You either have to write a complete application every time you want to do something (e.g. Python+wxPython; Dabo) or need to poke at a SQL file from the command line. If I could recreate my spreadsheet in a database format that allowed me to quickly develop and easily maintain an application -- I would be developing it now. -- Cheers Simon Simon Cropper Principal Consultant Botanicus Australia Pty Ltd PO Box 160, Sunshine, VIC W: www.botanicusaustralia.com.au -- For unsubscribe instructions e-mail to: users+h...@global.libreoffice.org Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/users/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
Re: [libreoffice-users] Re: Calc will not save file after sheet deleted.
Simon On Thu, 2011-08-11 at 09:38 +1000, Simon Cropper wrote: On 11/08/11 02:53, Tom Davies wrote: Hmm, well maybe not the absolute worst. A sieve or broken floppy disc or an ancient format that no program can read might be worse but yes, databases with an audit-trail are much more secure and plain text such as Csv ensure that there will always be some program somewhere that can at least access the data. I agree but there are no good front ends to the myriad of relational database backends that you can utilise on Linux. I could list tons of SQL engines but as the copious posts on this list about Base attest, there are few decent alternatives for Rapid Application Development, Data Mining or even simple application development available; let alone something that can be integrated into LO. When working on Windows I use Microsoft Visual Foxpro. Fantastic package but now discontinued (and I have moved my primary platform to Ubuntu now!). There is absolutely nothing comparable to it on Linux. You either have to write a complete application every time you want to do something (e.g. Python+wxPython; Dabo) or need to poke at a SQL file from the command line. If I could recreate my spreadsheet in a database format that allowed me to quickly develop and easily maintain an application -- I would be developing it now. -- Cheers Simon Simon Cropper Principal Consultant Botanicus Australia Pty Ltd PO Box 160, Sunshine, VIC W: www.botanicusaustralia.com.au Both MySQL/MariaFB and Postgresql have GUI interfaces available for Linux , MySQL Worbench from the MySQL site and pgadmin for Postgresql in the Ubuntu repository. Both allow a users to most of the db work in a desktop environment not CLI. -- Jay Lozier jsloz...@gmail.com -- For unsubscribe instructions e-mail to: users+h...@global.libreoffice.org Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/users/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
Re: [libreoffice-users] Re: Calc will not save file after sheet deleted.
On 11/08/11 09:47, planas wrote: Simon On Thu, 2011-08-11 at 09:38 +1000, Simon Cropper wrote: On 11/08/11 02:53, Tom Davies wrote: Hmm, well maybe not the absolute worst. A sieve or broken floppy disc or an ancient format that no program can read might be worse but yes, databases with an audit-trail are much more secure and plain text such as Csv ensure that there will always be some program somewhere that can at least access the data. I agree but there are no good front ends to the myriad of relational database backends that you can utilise on Linux. I could list tons of SQL engines but as the copious posts on this list about Base attest, there are few decent alternatives for Rapid Application Development, Data Mining or even simple application development available; let alone something that can be integrated into LO. When working on Windows I use Microsoft Visual Foxpro. Fantastic package but now discontinued (and I have moved my primary platform to Ubuntu now!). There is absolutely nothing comparable to it on Linux. You either have to write a complete application every time you want to do something (e.g. Python+wxPython; Dabo) or need to poke at a SQL file from the command line. If I could recreate my spreadsheet in a database format that allowed me to quickly develop and easily maintain an application -- I would be developing it now. -- Cheers Simon Both MySQL/MariaFB and Postgresql have GUI interfaces available for Linux , MySQL Worbench from the MySQL site and pgadmin for Postgresql in the Ubuntu repository. Both allow a users to most of the db work in a desktop environment not CLI. All these packages are administration utilities not RAD or Data Mining environments. MySQL Workbench is a visual database design tool that is developed by MySQL. It is the successor application of the DBDesigner4 project. http://wb.mysql.com/?page_id=28 pgAdmin is designed to answer the needs of all users, from writing simple SQL queries to developing complex databases. The graphical interface supports all PostgreSQL features and makes administration easy. The application also includes a syntax highlighting SQL editor, a server-side code editor, http://www.pgadmin.org/ Data mining allows the 'researcher' to import, export, convert, merge and manipulate data for a particular project, and maintain the original data and any derivatives. RAD allows, at minimum, input forms, menues and reports. Ideally a programming language should be available to manipulate the data and user experience. Granted I should have been more careful with my choice of words. All these packages do provide simple GUI interfaces that allow you to design and query a database created with the respective tool. Some projects do provide some import and export facilities for use in a once-off situation. BUT they are not really designed as RAD tools or provide you with the *easy* ability to collate disparate data sources, manipulate this information and export it again. -- Cheers Simon Simon Cropper Principal Consultant Botanicus Australia Pty Ltd PO Box 160, Sunshine, VIC W: www.botanicusaustralia.com.au -- For unsubscribe instructions e-mail to: users+h...@global.libreoffice.org Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/users/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
[libreoffice-users] Re: Calc will not save file after sheet deleted.
On 08/10/2011 04:38 PM, Simon Cropper wrote: ... If I could recreate my spreadsheet in a database format that allowed me to quickly develop and easily maintain an application -- I would be developing it now. Pick OS We used to sell it when I was based in Australia (McDonnell Douglas/Microdata). Too bad Dick Pick isn't still around :-) -- For unsubscribe instructions e-mail to: users+h...@global.libreoffice.org Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/users/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
Re: [libreoffice-users] Re: Calc will not save file after sheet deleted.
Simon On Thu, 2011-08-11 at 10:30 +1000, Simon Cropper wrote: On 11/08/11 09:47, planas wrote: Simon On Thu, 2011-08-11 at 09:38 +1000, Simon Cropper wrote: On 11/08/11 02:53, Tom Davies wrote: Hmm, well maybe not the absolute worst. A sieve or broken floppy disc or an ancient format that no program can read might be worse but yes, databases with an audit-trail are much more secure and plain text such as Csv ensure that there will always be some program somewhere that can at least access the data. I agree but there are no good front ends to the myriad of relational database backends that you can utilise on Linux. I could list tons of SQL engines but as the copious posts on this list about Base attest, there are few decent alternatives for Rapid Application Development, Data Mining or even simple application development available; let alone something that can be integrated into LO. When working on Windows I use Microsoft Visual Foxpro. Fantastic package but now discontinued (and I have moved my primary platform to Ubuntu now!). There is absolutely nothing comparable to it on Linux. You either have to write a complete application every time you want to do something (e.g. Python+wxPython; Dabo) or need to poke at a SQL file from the command line. If I could recreate my spreadsheet in a database format that allowed me to quickly develop and easily maintain an application -- I would be developing it now. -- Cheers Simon Both MySQL/MariaFB and Postgresql have GUI interfaces available for Linux , MySQL Worbench from the MySQL site and pgadmin for Postgresql in the Ubuntu repository. Both allow a users to most of the db work in a desktop environment not CLI. All these packages are administration utilities not RAD or Data Mining environments. MySQL Workbench is a visual database design tool that is developed by MySQL. It is the successor application of the DBDesigner4 project. http://wb.mysql.com/?page_id=28 pgAdmin is designed to answer the needs of all users, from writing simple SQL queries to developing complex databases. The graphical interface supports all PostgreSQL features and makes administration easy. The application also includes a syntax highlighting SQL editor, a server-side code editor, http://www.pgadmin.org/ Data mining allows the 'researcher' to import, export, convert, merge and manipulate data for a particular project, and maintain the original data and any derivatives. RAD allows, at minimum, input forms, menues and reports. Ideally a programming language should be available to manipulate the data and user experience. Granted I should have been more careful with my choice of words. All these packages do provide simple GUI interfaces that allow you to design and query a database created with the respective tool. Some projects do provide some import and export facilities for use in a once-off situation. BUT they are not really designed as RAD tools or provide you with the *easy* ability to collate disparate data sources, manipulate this information and export it again. -- Cheers Simon Simon Cropper Principal Consultant Botanicus Australia Pty Ltd PO Box 160, Sunshine, VIC W: www.botanicusaustralia.com.au I should read more closely sometimes. I would think the problem with data mining is determine what bits might be yield nuggets out of the mass. -- Jay Lozier jsloz...@gmail.com -- For unsubscribe instructions e-mail to: users+h...@global.libreoffice.org Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/users/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
Re: [libreoffice-users] Re: Calc will not save file after sheet deleted.
On 11/08/11 10:57, NoOp wrote: On 08/10/2011 04:38 PM, Simon Cropper wrote: ... If I could recreate my spreadsheet in a database format that allowed me to quickly develop and easily maintain an application -- I would be developing it now. Pick OS We used to sell it when I was based in Australia (McDonnell Douglas/Microdata). Too bad Dick Pick isn't still around :-) I have not used Pick. I have used Revelation before, which is a derivative of this system. Not bad but still Windows based and files in proprietary format. The beauty of dbase files was for a long time they were the default 'desktop' (rather than server style) database format. Information stored in this format was accessible by a wide variety of packages (foxbase, foxpro, dBaseIII/IV, Clipper, Paradox, ...). Dbase files are old school now. The closest format is sqlite. This relational database system is serverless making it portable and able to be maintained in a similar fashion to the dissociated project based tables that formed part of the dbase database. But alais no packages are around that provide the functionality I desire. Before anyone tells me I am aware of 'sqlite data browser' and sqliteman and the firefox addon. All useful to query and maintain files but not good for data mining or RAD. -- Cheers Simon Simon Cropper Principal Consultant Botanicus Australia Pty Ltd PO Box 160, Sunshine, VIC W: www.botanicusaustralia.com.au -- For unsubscribe instructions e-mail to: users+h...@global.libreoffice.org Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/users/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
[libreoffice-users] Re: Calc will not save file after sheet deleted.
On 08/09/2011 04:46 PM, Simon Cropper wrote: ... *Has anyone encountered or heard of a similar problem?* *Anyone got some ideas?* *Is it worth upgrading LibreOffice?* I am running LibreOffice 3.4.1 OOO340m1 (Build:103) on Ubuntu 10.04 LTS. The java version used is Sun Microsystems Inc. 1.6.0_26, although I have also checked and verified the problem occurs on 1.6.0_20 (which just happened to be on the system). LibreOffice was manually installed from downloaded DEB files *not* installed from the LibreOffice PPA repository or the Ubuntu Software Centre. I wonder if it's related to this bug: https://bugs.freedesktop.org/show_bug.cgi?id=39236 [EDITING Calc crashes when deleting a sheet with a pivot table on it] If so, you might want to test with 3.4.2 final (which is 3.4.2rc3): http://www.libreoffice.org/download/ -- For unsubscribe instructions e-mail to: users+h...@global.libreoffice.org Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/users/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
Re: [libreoffice-users] Re: Calc will not save file after sheet deleted.
On 10/08/11 10:39, NoOp wrote: On 08/09/2011 04:46 PM, Simon Cropper wrote: ... *Has anyone encountered or heard of a similar problem?* *Anyone got some ideas?* *Is it worth upgrading LibreOffice?* I am running LibreOffice 3.4.1 OOO340m1 (Build:103) on Ubuntu 10.04 LTS. The java version used is Sun Microsystems Inc. 1.6.0_26, although I have also checked and verified the problem occurs on 1.6.0_20 (which just happened to be on the system). LibreOffice was manually installed from downloaded DEB files *not* installed from the LibreOffice PPA repository or the Ubuntu Software Centre. I wonder if it's related to this bug: https://bugs.freedesktop.org/show_bug.cgi?id=39236 [EDITING Calc crashes when deleting a sheet with a pivot table on it] If so, you might want to test with 3.4.2 final (which is 3.4.2rc3): http://www.libreoffice.org/download/ Hi NoOp, Unfortunately an upgrade did not help. -- Cheers Simon Simon Cropper Principal Consultant Botanicus Australia Pty Ltd PO Box 160, Sunshine, VIC W: www.botanicusaustralia.com.au -- For unsubscribe instructions e-mail to: users+h...@global.libreoffice.org Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/users/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
