[libreoffice-users] Re: I am downloading LibreOffice to try it out.
No offense to any of the participants (seriously!) but this thread is pure comedy gold -- View this message in context: http://nabble.documentfoundation.org/I-am-downloading-LibreOffice-to-try-it-out-tp2790818p2792483.html Sent from the Users mailing list archive at Nabble.com. -- Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to users+h...@libreoffice.org Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/www/users/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
[libreoffice-users] Re: I am downloading LibreOffice to try it out.
I've noticed there was some talk among the moderators about whether to allow the above post through. I do apologize, I should have kept my amusement to myself. After all, for the people who came here to find answers to their questions it was no laughing matter. Possibly what caused the "crossed wires" in this thread was the unfamiliarity of the second poster with this odd mailinglist/forum hybrid called Nabble. Others http://blog.documentfoundation.org/2011/03/14/how-large-is-the-libreoffice-community-a-mailing-list-approach/#comments have remarked that LibreOffice should have a regular forum where users can go to ask for assistance. This Nabble was very hard to find for me, at the time I did not see it advertised prominently on any TDF / LibO web page. Now, I did know already about the two widely-trafficked OpenOffice volunteer forums, especially http://user.services.openoffice.org/en/forum/. In the long run, however, it would be better either for LibO/TDF to set up their own forum (not a Nabble which poses extra difficulty) or to discuss with the management of the two premier OOo user forums a rebranding to give LibO equal billing. Mailing lists are not convenient or agreeable to the general public. People want a forum that works the way they are used to: not a Google user group, or two discussion pages on sourceforge.net, or a Nabble. This need not mean that mailing lists get shut down. Scribus, for example, is keeping its mailing lists but recently set up a http://forums.scribus.net/index.php dedicated forum as well. -- View this message in context: http://nabble.documentfoundation.org/I-am-downloading-LibreOffice-to-try-it-out-tp2790818p2794570.html Sent from the Users mailing list archive at Nabble.com. -- Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to users+h...@libreoffice.org Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/www/users/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
[libreoffice-users] Re: I am downloading LibreOffice to try it out.
On 4/8/11 2:42 AM, aqualung wrote: Possibly what caused the "crossed wires" in this thread was the unfamiliarity of the second poster with this odd mailinglist/forum hybrid called Nabble. Others http://blog.documentfoundation.org/2011/03/14/how-large-is-the-libreoffice-community-a-mailing-list-approach/#comments have remarked that LibreOffice should have a regular forum where users can go to ask for assistance. This Nabble was very hard to find for me, at the time I did not see it advertised prominently on any TDF / LibO web page. Now, I did know already about the two widely-trafficked OpenOffice volunteer forums, especially http://user.services.openoffice.org/en/forum/. In the long run, however, it would be better either for LibO/TDF to set up their own forum (not a Nabble which poses extra difficulty) or to discuss with the management of the two premier OOo user forums a rebranding to give LibO equal billing. Mailing lists are not convenient or agreeable to the general public. People want a forum that works the way they are used to: not a Google user group, or two discussion pages on sourceforge.net, or a Nabble. This need not mean that mailing lists get shut down. Scribus, for example, is keeping its mailing lists but recently set up a http://forums.scribus.net/index.php dedicated forum as well. If you think finding Nabble and other help in the Libre Office site is hard, try Mozilla!! Horrendous!l Great eye candy, but not particularly functional for finding help. If Libre Office goes to a forum format, I'm outta here. Forums are resource hungry and slow. To me, forums assume the user is to stupid or ignorant to master newsgroups. If you want efficiency, use newsgroups. I access this mailing list via gmane.org, where access to a mailing list is reformatted to act like a newsgroup. Far, far simpler and easy to use. Now, if Libre Office offered both forum style access and newsgroup style access to the same help database, I wouldn't care. But, if LO doesn't tell people about either or both ways of access help, then LO PTB can't complain about one or the other system not being used. Ken -- Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to users+h...@libreoffice.org Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/www/users/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
[libreoffice-users] Re: I am downloading LibreOffice to try it out.
Ken (and Robert), Ken Springer wrote: > > If you think finding Nabble and other help in the Libre Office site is > hard, try Mozilla!! Horrendous!l Great eye candy, but not particularly > functional for finding help. > True indeed. That's why http://forums.mozillazine.org Mozillazine , a volunteer effort, sprung up and is thriving with millions of posts and hundreds of thousands of users. Total posts 4176354 • Total topics 790627 • Total members 374066 If Libre Office goes to a forum format, I'm outta here. Forums are > resource hungry and slow. Big forums require dedicated servers, that is true. For people browsing there, they are fast and simple to use. To me, forums assume the user is to stupid or ignorant to master newsgroups. With respect, Ken, that statement to me indicates an insular mindset. You may be a "geek" (not intended as an insult) and go back to the early days of Usenet, but the majority of people on the Internet are not. It is not very productive to label them as stupid or ignorant if forums are what they prefer. http://ubuntuforums.org/ Ubuntu and http://forums.linuxmint.com/ Linux Mint , to give two more examples, have embraced forums and met with an enthusiastic response. My recommendation would be for The Document Foundation and LibreOffice to approach the http://user.services.openoffice.org/en/forum/ OOo volunteer forum to discuss collaboration. It is popular, well maintained, the moderators and volunteers are for the most part helpful and knowledgeable, and there is no need in my opinion to re-invent the wheel. (Of course, such steps may already be going on behind the scenes that we don't yet know about.) -- View this message in context: http://nabble.documentfoundation.org/I-am-downloading-LibreOffice-to-try-it-out-tp2790818p2801420.html Sent from the Users mailing list archive at Nabble.com. -- Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to users+h...@libreoffice.org Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/www/users/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
[libreoffice-users] Re: I am downloading LibreOffice to try it out.
Hi, aqualung, On 4/9/11 10:17 PM, aqualung wrote: Ken (and Robert), Ken Springer wrote: If you think finding Nabble and other help in the Libre Office site is hard, try Mozilla!! Horrendous!l Great eye candy, but not particularly functional for finding help. True indeed. That's why http://forums.mozillazine.org Mozillazine , a volunteer effort, sprung up and is thriving with millions of posts and hundreds of thousands of users. I just learned about Mozillazine within the last two weeks, but haven't had the time to check it out. But my observation is this... If users have to resort to a help system that is outside of Mozilla, Libre Office, Microsoft, or any other organization's help system, such as Google or Ask.com as I do for Microsoft help, there is something wrong with the organization's help system. The organization should have the premier help system. If Libre Office goes to a forum format, I'm outta here. Forums are resource hungry and slow. Big forums require dedicated servers, that is true. For people browsing there, they are fast and simple to use. Ah, the difficulties of conveying meaning and a message in words alone. Doesn't always work well. LOL It's my belief that at the provider's end, there's serious investment in hardware resources regardless of a newsgroup, forum, mailing list, etc. I actually meant, resource hungry and slow at the user's end. In the case of the forum format, the same data can be downloaded again and again and again, yet gives me no new information but takes up more of my time. I would take issue that forums are fast and easy to use, but if we wish to discuss the pros and cons of how to actually deliver the help, we probably should start a new thread. :-) I read the LO mailing list via Gmane. If it wasn't for that option, I wouldn't be here. To me, forums assume the user is to stupid or ignorant to master newsgroups. With respect, Ken, that statement to me indicates an insular mindset. You may be a "geek" (not intended as an insult) and go back to the early days of Usenet, but the majority of people on the Internet are not. There was no hint of offense at my end, in fact, I somehow feel complimented. Thank you. But I do not consider myself a geek at all. And I harken back to my earlier statement regarding writing. Not only did I miss my own grammatical error during proofreading, "to" instead of "too", a better choice of descriptors would have been "uneducated". How can any product or system be used effectively if the user does not know of the product or system, or how to use it? I have maintained for years the big problem is not the hardware or software, it's the lack of education available to the user and new user. It used to be that vendors gave the new user manuals that had information in it that actually had almost all of the answers. Now, manuals, if they even exist, are barely quick start guides. Case in point: The OOo user guide for v. 3. The Writer portion is about 1/5th the size of the manual for WordPerfect 4.0 for Atari, yet Writer has untold more power and abilities than WP 4.0. Manuals, and I mean *good* manuals, are the "keys to the city'. That is where I learned what I know about computers and software. It is not very productive to label them as stupid or ignorant if forums are what they prefer. http://ubuntuforums.org/ Ubuntu and http://forums.linuxmint.com/ Linux Mint , to give two more examples, have embraced forums and met with an enthusiastic response. Devil's Advocate position: Shouldn't we be asking *why* they choose forums over newsgroups. As I mentioned earlier, how do we know these users even know newsgroups exist? If they don't know about it, they certainly won't choose to use it. My recommendation would be for The Document Foundation and LibreOffice to approach the http://user.services.openoffice.org/en/forum/ OOo volunteer forum to discuss collaboration. It is popular, well maintained, the moderators and volunteers are for the most part helpful and knowledgeable, and there is no need in my opinion to re-invent the wheel. (Of course, such steps may already be going on behind the scenes that we don't yet know about.) I think that's a great idea. IMO, a lot of the new software you see today, such as email clients, don't necessary add new power to the software, just more eye candy. I'm using Thunderbird 3.1.9 for this newsgroup, but a 10 year old version of MS Outlook has more options for use at the core than TB. I would further add to your suggestion that as many of the developers of other versions of the basic OOo core be asked to join. But I'm sure the "fight" would develop over the method of delivering the help, be it a newsgroup, mailing list, forum, ad nauseum. I'm actually dumbfounded as to why a single database couldn't be developed, and the give the user the choice of all visual formats that makes it easiest for e
Re: [libreoffice-users] Re: I am downloading LibreOffice to try it out.
On Fri, Apr 08, 2011 at 01:42:54AM -0700, aqualung wrote: .snip > Mailing lists are not convenient or agreeable to the general public. Could you please elaborate on this? I'm not sure why it should be so. -- Bob Holtzman Key ID: 8D549279 "If you think you're getting free lunch, check the price of the beer" -- Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to users+h...@libreoffice.org Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/www/users/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
