Re: [libreoffice-users] Understanding Character styles "Default Style" and relative font sizes
Hi John, one hint: Tools → Options → LibreOffice Writer → Basic Fonts will set the size of the Default Character Style (and some other styles) I have tried it with Character Style Emphasis. Set it to 150% - it was set to 150% of the Default Character Style and sets all to 18pt. Then I changed the Basic Font to 14pt and the Character Style Emphasis changes to 21pt after a refresh. And another hint: If you are missing a description write it down. I have been asked a longer time ago if I couldn't write down something about Base. So I wrote the German Base-Handbuch for LO. The fist Book had 300 pages. The version, which should be published for LO 7.0, will have more than 600 pages. Then I saw there is missing a description about XML-Form-Documents. I tested all and wrote it down. I the German Mailinglist we had seen the same problems with character styles, paragraph styles and so on. It would be great to have a separate description. Regards Robert -- Homepage: https://www.familiegrosskopf.de/robert -- To unsubscribe e-mail to: users+unsubscr...@global.libreoffice.org Problems? https://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: https://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: https://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/users/ Privacy Policy: https://www.documentfoundation.org/privacy
Re: [libreoffice-users] Understanding Character styles "Default Style" and relative font sizes
Hi Robert, On 2020-07-09 04:58, Robert Großkopf wrote: ... Also: can someone explain "text-to-text alignment" (Paragraph style Alignment tab)? Try this: Write some Text with Default Style. Copy it for getting some paragraphs. Now set the paragraph Text to Text → Alignment → Top. Mark a word in the paragraph and switch the size of this to 18pt. Ah, so it's just for the question of alignment of different character sizes? I should have thought that would be easy to incorporate in the Help or Guide. [But then, the volunteers who provide such help can't think of everything. (If there is one simple change I would make to the Guide, though, it would be the elementary step of providing the PDF with bookmarks. The lack of bookmarks is such a disadvantage, and so easily overcome, that I download the ODT Guide and generate the PDF from that. I'm surprised that after giving so much effort on content, the Guide producers neglect such an important step.)] Kind regards, John -- To unsubscribe e-mail to: users+unsubscr...@global.libreoffice.org Problems? https://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: https://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: https://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/users/ Privacy Policy: https://www.documentfoundation.org/privacy
Re: [libreoffice-users] Understanding Character styles "Default Style" and relative font sizes
Hi Robert, Thanks so much for answering, but I think you misunderstood the question, which is essentially about the behavior of *Character* styles, not Paragraph styles. I'm sorry if that was not clear. To help correct, I will insert the proper context in the snippet you quoted below, and begin by quoting a little more from the original post, for what I hope will be adequate context: In most cases the Paragraph and Character styles seem to coexist with the rules above -- essentially, that the Character style modifies the character attributes of the Paragraph style -- but something different happens with relative font size: the character size is some percentage, but of what? - apparently /not/ of the character size specified in the relevant Paragraph style, or even in the Paragraph Default Style. All percentages seem to be based on a 12pt font, regardless of the font size specified in the Paragraph style. With that fuller context, let's proceed: On 2020-07-09 04:47, Robert Großkopf wrote: All percentages [of the *Character* style] seem to be based on a 12pt font, regardless of the font size specified in the Paragraph style. 12pt is the defined font size of the paragraph "Default Style". You have to look in the style dialog in tab "Organizer" → "Inherit from". You could change "Default Style" of the paragraph for changing the size for all depending font sizes. "Addressee" depends directly to the font size of "Default Style". So the font size will be changed if the font size of "Default Style" has been changed. "Heading", for example, sets the inherits from Default Style. It is overwritten there by font size 14pt. "Heading 1" is inherit from "Heading". It takes this 14pt and will set it to 130%. You see, all your examples were of the cascading of relative sizes within a cascade of linked Paragraph styles: each child style modifies its direct parent style. I thought the original post demonstrated that I understand how that works, and was surprised only by how Character styles -- which apparently exist to modify the character attributes of the Paragraph style -- differ in that regard. As you have used examples to communicate the principle [just not the principle I intended], let me do likewise: Take the Character style "Emphasis". Change the font size from absolute (by default, 12pt) to relative (say, 150%). Apply that style to a string of text in some paragraph (say, Paragraph style "Text Body"). To what is that 150% related? If you change the font size of the Paragraph style (say, increase "Text Body" from 12pt to 20pt), note that the size of the text in "Emphasis" /does not change/. So in what way does the Character style modify the character attributes of the Paragraph style? All is based on the default styles: Paragraphs for the whole paragraph styles, fonts to the whole character styles. I'm sorry, this part of your answer I did not understand. I /think/ you refer to the hierarchical linking of attributes within Paragraph styles -- and Character styles may similarly be hierarchically linked, but not based on the /Character/ style "Default Style". All that, I knew, but it's possible you were saying something more. [I must admit I had to think more about the significance of those 19 words than about the rest of your reply, trying to determine if I was missing something.] So if you were saying something more than I understood, would you please help me understand your intent? Default character style only deletes all the changes of the character styles you made in a special tab. For example the character style "Emphasis": There is only set Font > Italic. You could only set it back to "change nothing" by choosing in tab "Font" → "Standard". Yes. I think I expressed it thus -- There is also a /Character/ style "Default Style", which /cannot/ be either modified or chosen as the basis of other Character styles; its sole function seems to be, when invoked, to de-select any other character style, to the return the selected string to the character attributes specified in the Paragraph style governing the paragraph(s) housing that string. -- and that this function of the Character style "Default Style" (to remove any other character style) is complemented by the ability you mention, to reset any other Character style to adopt the attributes of the underlying Paragraph style. Again, about that there is no question. [Though again, as I mentioned in the original post, so much of that apparent complication stems from the decision to include character attributes in the Paragraph styles, which I think is done for MS compatibility.] Hope it helps. My English is a littel bit confusing for other people. Uberhaupt nicht. Ich werde Ihre Geduld mit meinem Deutsch nicht missbrachen. Ich schatze dass Sie meinem Muttersprache schreiben. Ich weiss den zusatlichen Aufwand. Manchmal denke ich, dass jeder in seiner bekanntesten Sprache sprechen und
Re: [libreoffice-users] Understanding Character styles "Default Style" and relative font sizes
On 09/07/2020 09:47, Robert Großkopf wrote: > Hi John, > >> All >> percentages seem to be based on a 12pt font, regardless of the font size >> specified in the Paragraph style. > > 12pt is the defined font size of the paragraph "Default Style". You have > to look in the style dialog in tab "Organizer" → "Inherit from". You > could change "Default Style" of the paragraph for changing the size for > all depending font sizes. > > "Addressee" depends directly to the font size of "Default Style". So the > font size will be changed if the font size of "Default Style" has been > changed. > > "Heading", for example, sets the inherits from Default Style. It is > overwritten there by font size 14pt. "Heading 1" is inherit from > "Heading". It takes this 14pt and will set it to 130%. > > All is based on the default styles: Paragraphs for the whole paragraph > styles, fonts to the whole character styles. > > Default character style only deletes all the changes of the character > styles you made in a special tab. For example the character style > "Emphasis": There is only set Font > Italic. You could only set it back > to "change nothing" by choosing in tab "Font" → "Standard". > > Hope it helps. My English is a littel bit confusing for other people. Nonsense! Your English is clear and concise and it's a pity that some of the so-called native English speakers on this list don't emulate it. -- To unsubscribe e-mail to: users+unsubscr...@global.libreoffice.org Problems? https://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: https://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: https://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/users/ Privacy Policy: https://www.documentfoundation.org/privacy
Re: [libreoffice-users] Understanding Character styles "Default Style" and relative font sizes
Hi John, > All > percentages seem to be based on a 12pt font, regardless of the font size > specified in the Paragraph style. 12pt is the defined font size of the paragraph "Default Style". You have to look in the style dialog in tab "Organizer" → "Inherit from". You could change "Default Style" of the paragraph for changing the size for all depending font sizes. "Addressee" depends directly to the font size of "Default Style". So the font size will be changed if the font size of "Default Style" has been changed. "Heading", for example, sets the inherits from Default Style. It is overwritten there by font size 14pt. "Heading 1" is inherit from "Heading". It takes this 14pt and will set it to 130%. All is based on the default styles: Paragraphs for the whole paragraph styles, fonts to the whole character styles. Default character style only deletes all the changes of the character styles you made in a special tab. For example the character style "Emphasis": There is only set Font > Italic. You could only set it back to "change nothing" by choosing in tab "Font" → "Standard". Hope it helps. My English is a littel bit confusing for other people. Regards Robert -- Homepage: https://www.familiegrosskopf.de/robert -- To unsubscribe e-mail to: users+unsubscr...@global.libreoffice.org Problems? https://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: https://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: https://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/users/ Privacy Policy: https://www.documentfoundation.org/privacy
Re: [libreoffice-users] Understanding Character styles "Default Style" and relative font sizes
Hi John, > > Also: can someone explain "text-to-text alignment" (Paragraph style > Alignment tab)? Try this: Write some Text with Default Style. Copy it for getting some paragraphs. Now set the paragraph Text to Text → Alignment → Top. Mark a word in the paragraph and switch the size of this to 18pt. All this con be made directly, without any changing of the styles. Regards Robert -- Homepage: https://www.familiegrosskopf.de/robert -- To unsubscribe e-mail to: users+unsubscr...@global.libreoffice.org Problems? https://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: https://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: https://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/users/ Privacy Policy: https://www.documentfoundation.org/privacy
[libreoffice-users] Understanding Character styles "Default Style" and relative font sizes
The root of the hierarchy of Paragraph styles, on which all Paragraph styles are based, is "Default Style". There is also a /Character/ style "Default Style", which /cannot/ be either modified or chosen as the basis of other Character styles; its sole function seems to be, when invoked, to de-select any other character style, to the return the selected string to the character attributes specified in the Paragraph style governing the paragraph(s) housing that string. [That summary is a result of years of use as well as study of the Help (which is silent in this regard) and the Writer Guides from 2.0 to 6.0. If, after all that, I have missed something essential, I would welcome correction. OTOH, if a proposition so elementary to understanding Writer -- the meaning of the Character style "Default Style" -- is really this simple, I wish the documentation would be more explicit in this regard.] A Paragraph style has attributes of paragraph structure and character style. [This fact, probably done for MS Word compatibility, is likely responsible for much if not most of the awkwardness of styles. When formatting directly from the main menu, one is sent directly to a character-only or paragraph-structure-only dialog box. It would be helpful/simpler if Paragraph and Character styles were that cleanly separated functionally.] For paragraph structure, the Paragraph style has these tabs: *Indents & Spacing* *Tabs* For both Paragraph styles and Character styles, the character attributes are grouped as: *Font*: Font (typeface), Style (attributes Bold and Italic) and Size (absolute or relative); *Font Effects*: Font Color, Text Decoration (various types of over/through/under lines), Effects (Case and Relief variations) *Position*: (Position (super/normal/sub script), Rotation (0~360), Scaling (%) Spacing (absolute), Kerning (on/off) *Highlighting* (character color background) Both Paragraph and Character styles include a *Borders* tab, but this apparent commonality if misleading because the Border scopes are different: around the selected text string in the case of the Character style, around the paragraph(s) in the case of the Paragraph style. In most cases the Paragraph and Character styles seem to coexist with the rules above -- essentially, that the Character style modifies the character attributes of the Paragraph style -- but something different happens with relative font size: the character size is some percentage, but of what? - apparently /not/ of the character size specified in the relevant Paragraph style, or even in the Paragraph Default Style. All percentages seem to be based on a 12pt font, regardless of the font size specified in the Paragraph style. Can someone tell me what is going on here? Is my understanding of the principles correct? Also: can someone explain "text-to-text alignment" (Paragraph style Alignment tab)? John But one problem (of several) with this understanding is that it doesn't really seem to work that way, either. If a Character style modifies the character attributes of the Paragraph style, -- To unsubscribe e-mail to: users+unsubscr...@global.libreoffice.org Problems? https://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: https://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: https://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/users/ Privacy Policy: https://www.documentfoundation.org/privacy
