[libreoffice-users] Writer: Fake vs. Real Superscripts in advanced fonts

2020-12-06 Thread Cuyahoga Falls 
I have a question dealing with one of the advanced features of today's 
fonts: superscripts.


Using LO, one can automatically get ordinal numbers using the 
Autocorrect feature. Type 1st and the "st" is automatically converted to 
a superscript. However, the superscript is an artificially created 
superscript where the "st" is shrunken and raised. The stroke weight is 
correspondingly reduced resulting in a superscript that looks 
disproportionately light when compared to other letters.


Today's modern fonts have better technology. Many fonts have built in 
superscript glyphs that are properly sized and weighted. LO can access 
these features graphically through the "features" option in the Format > 
Character dialog (or "Font" tab in paragraph or character style 
dialogs). If I click on the "features" option, and select "superscript," 
LO will insert an additional code in the font name that will call the 
properly designed glyphs. Thus, for example, "Sitka Text" becomes "Sitka 
Text:sups" and the superscript inserted is properly sized and weighted. 
I can get the same effect by typing the appropriate code in the font 
name box rather than selecting from the graphical menu of optional 
"features" in the character style dialog.


The typographic benefit is that, by selecting the advanced superscript 
of the font, one gets a true superscript that is not just shrunken 
letters with reduced stroke weight. The stroke weight remains consistent 
with the weight of the normally sized font. As an OCD challenged font 
freak, I prefer using the true superscripts rather than the artificially 
produced shrunken superscripts, which brings me to my question.


As far as I can tell, LO's automatic insertion of ordinal superscripts 
using the Autocorrect function always inserts artificially generated and 
shrunken superscripts rather than the true properly proportioned 
superscripts contained within advanced fonts. Is there a way of 
directing the Autocorrect function to use proper superscripts if they 
are available rather than always creating artificially shrunken ordinal 
superscripts?


It's a bit of a pain to have to manually reformat each ordinal number to 
use the proper superscript. Even if I use character styles, that is 
still more labor intensive than simply typing "1st" and spacebar and 
getting the desired effect. If I could direct the Autocorrect function 
to select true superscripts rather than artificially generated 
superscripts, that would be great.


For what it's worth, I'm using LO 6.3.4.2 on Windows 10.

Thanks.

Virgil


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Re: [libreoffice-users] Writer: Fake vs. Real Superscripts in advanced fonts

2020-12-06 Thread Michael H 
What you're looking for is the autocorrect autoreplacements table.

Tools --> Autocorrect --> Autocorrect Options.

Turn off the fake ordinals on the Localized options tab.

Then you can add entries in the Replace tab for the values you want, like
1st -> 1ˢᵗ.

There may be a way to introduce a character style method with this table,
so that copy/paste won't produce weirdness like the ordinal glyphs might if
the pasted field doesn't have ordinals in the active font, but this is
where you'd do it.



On Sun, Dec 6, 2020 at 2:56 PM Cuyahoga Falls  wrote:

> I have a question dealing with one of the advanced features of today's
> fonts: superscripts.
>
> Using LO, one can automatically get ordinal numbers using the
> Autocorrect feature. Type 1st and the "st" is automatically converted to
> a superscript. However, the superscript is an artificially created
> superscript where the "st" is shrunken and raised. The stroke weight is
> correspondingly reduced resulting in a superscript that looks
> disproportionately light when compared to other letters.
>
> Today's modern fonts have better technology. Many fonts have built in
> superscript glyphs that are properly sized and weighted. LO can access
> these features graphically through the "features" option in the Format >
> Character dialog (or "Font" tab in paragraph or character style
> dialogs). If I click on the "features" option, and select "superscript,"
> LO will insert an additional code in the font name that will call the
> properly designed glyphs. Thus, for example, "Sitka Text" becomes "Sitka
> Text:sups" and the superscript inserted is properly sized and weighted.
> I can get the same effect by typing the appropriate code in the font
> name box rather than selecting from the graphical menu of optional
> "features" in the character style dialog.
>
> The typographic benefit is that, by selecting the advanced superscript
> of the font, one gets a true superscript that is not just shrunken
> letters with reduced stroke weight. The stroke weight remains consistent
> with the weight of the normally sized font. As an OCD challenged font
> freak, I prefer using the true superscripts rather than the artificially
> produced shrunken superscripts, which brings me to my question.
>
> As far as I can tell, LO's automatic insertion of ordinal superscripts
> using the Autocorrect function always inserts artificially generated and
> shrunken superscripts rather than the true properly proportioned
> superscripts contained within advanced fonts. Is there a way of
> directing the Autocorrect function to use proper superscripts if they
> are available rather than always creating artificially shrunken ordinal
> superscripts?
>
> It's a bit of a pain to have to manually reformat each ordinal number to
> use the proper superscript. Even if I use character styles, that is
> still more labor intensive than simply typing "1st" and spacebar and
> getting the desired effect. If I could direct the Autocorrect function
> to select true superscripts rather than artificially generated
> superscripts, that would be great.
>
> For what it's worth, I'm using LO 6.3.4.2 on Windows 10.
>
> Thanks.
>
> Virgil
>
>
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> Problems?
> https://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/
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Re: [libreoffice-users] Writer: Fake vs. Real Superscripts in advanced fonts

2020-12-06 Thread Richard England 

"cuyfalls",

I may not have your discerning eye, but using LO v7.0.3.1 on a Fedora 
v33 box, when I check the automatically converted superscript with one 
that is created manually by selecting the ordinal abbreviation and 
changing it to a superscript they look identical for me. I checked two 
different fonts. My OCD may not be as intense as yours.  :-)


Could be a difference in LO releases or operation system fonts (?).

~~R
StGeorge  



On 12/6/20 1:56 PM, Michael H wrote:

What you're looking for is the autocorrect autoreplacements table.

Tools --> Autocorrect --> Autocorrect Options.

Turn off the fake ordinals on the Localized options tab.

Then you can add entries in the Replace tab for the values you want, like
1st -> 1ˢᵗ.

There may be a way to introduce a character style method with this table,
so that copy/paste won't produce weirdness like the ordinal glyphs might if
the pasted field doesn't have ordinals in the active font, but this is
where you'd do it.



On Sun, Dec 6, 2020 at 2:56 PM Cuyahoga Falls  wrote:


I have a question dealing with one of the advanced features of today's
fonts: superscripts.

Using LO, one can automatically get ordinal numbers using the
Autocorrect feature. Type 1st and the "st" is automatically converted to
a superscript. However, the superscript is an artificially created
superscript where the "st" is shrunken and raised. The stroke weight is
correspondingly reduced resulting in a superscript that looks
disproportionately light when compared to other letters.

Today's modern fonts have better technology. Many fonts have built in
superscript glyphs that are properly sized and weighted. LO can access
these features graphically through the "features" option in the Format >
Character dialog (or "Font" tab in paragraph or character style
dialogs). If I click on the "features" option, and select "superscript,"
LO will insert an additional code in the font name that will call the
properly designed glyphs. Thus, for example, "Sitka Text" becomes "Sitka
Text:sups" and the superscript inserted is properly sized and weighted.
I can get the same effect by typing the appropriate code in the font
name box rather than selecting from the graphical menu of optional
"features" in the character style dialog.

The typographic benefit is that, by selecting the advanced superscript
of the font, one gets a true superscript that is not just shrunken
letters with reduced stroke weight. The stroke weight remains consistent
with the weight of the normally sized font. As an OCD challenged font
freak, I prefer using the true superscripts rather than the artificially
produced shrunken superscripts, which brings me to my question.

As far as I can tell, LO's automatic insertion of ordinal superscripts
using the Autocorrect function always inserts artificially generated and
shrunken superscripts rather than the true properly proportioned
superscripts contained within advanced fonts. Is there a way of
directing the Autocorrect function to use proper superscripts if they
are available rather than always creating artificially shrunken ordinal
superscripts?

It's a bit of a pain to have to manually reformat each ordinal number to
use the proper superscript. Even if I use character styles, that is
still more labor intensive than simply typing "1st" and spacebar and
getting the desired effect. If I could direct the Autocorrect function
to select true superscripts rather than artificially generated
superscripts, that would be great.

For what it's worth, I'm using LO 6.3.4.2 on Windows 10.

Thanks.

Virgil


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Re: [libreoffice-users] Writer: Fake vs. Real Superscripts in advanced fonts

2020-12-07 Thread Cuyahoga Falls 

Michael,

Thanks for the suggestion. I'll look at it from that angle. It's such an 
obvious solution, I should have thought of it myself.


Virgil


On 12/6/2020 4:56 PM, Michael H wrote:

What you're looking for is the autocorrect autoreplacements table.

Tools --> Autocorrect --> Autocorrect Options.

Turn off the fake ordinals on the Localized options tab.

Then you can add entries in the Replace tab for the values you want, 
like 1st -> 1ˢᵗ.


There may be a way to introduce a character style method with this 
table, so that copy/paste won't produce weirdness like the ordinal 
glyphs might if the pasted field doesn't have ordinals in the active 
font, but this is where you'd do it.




On Sun, Dec 6, 2020 at 2:56 PM Cuyahoga Falls > wrote:


I have a question dealing with one of the advanced features of
today's
fonts: superscripts.

Using LO, one can automatically get ordinal numbers using the
Autocorrect feature. Type 1st and the "st" is automatically
converted to
a superscript. However, the superscript is an artificially created
superscript where the "st" is shrunken and raised. The stroke
weight is
correspondingly reduced resulting in a superscript that looks
disproportionately light when compared to other letters.

Today's modern fonts have better technology. Many fonts have built in
superscript glyphs that are properly sized and weighted. LO can
access
these features graphically through the "features" option in the
Format >
Character dialog (or "Font" tab in paragraph or character style
dialogs). If I click on the "features" option, and select
"superscript,"
LO will insert an additional code in the font name that will call the
properly designed glyphs. Thus, for example, "Sitka Text" becomes
"Sitka
Text:sups" and the superscript inserted is properly sized and
weighted.
I can get the same effect by typing the appropriate code in the font
name box rather than selecting from the graphical menu of optional
"features" in the character style dialog.

The typographic benefit is that, by selecting the advanced
superscript
of the font, one gets a true superscript that is not just shrunken
letters with reduced stroke weight. The stroke weight remains
consistent
with the weight of the normally sized font. As an OCD challenged font
freak, I prefer using the true superscripts rather than the
artificially
produced shrunken superscripts, which brings me to my question.

As far as I can tell, LO's automatic insertion of ordinal
superscripts
using the Autocorrect function always inserts artificially
generated and
shrunken superscripts rather than the true properly proportioned
superscripts contained within advanced fonts. Is there a way of
directing the Autocorrect function to use proper superscripts if they
are available rather than always creating artificially shrunken
ordinal
superscripts?

It's a bit of a pain to have to manually reformat each ordinal
number to
use the proper superscript. Even if I use character styles, that is
still more labor intensive than simply typing "1st" and spacebar and
getting the desired effect. If I could direct the Autocorrect
function
to select true superscripts rather than artificially generated
superscripts, that would be great.

For what it's worth, I'm using LO 6.3.4.2 on Windows 10.

Thanks.

Virgil


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Re: [libreoffice-users] Writer: Fake vs. Real Superscripts in advanced fonts

2020-12-07 Thread Cuyahoga Falls 

On 12/6/2020 6:00 PM, Richard England wrote:


"cuyfalls",

I may not have your discerning eye, but using LO v7.0.3.1 on a Fedora 
v33 box, when I check the automatically converted superscript with one 
that is created manually by selecting the ordinal abbreviation and 
changing it to a superscript they look identical for me. I checked two 
different fonts. My OCD may not be as intense as yours.  :-)


Could be a difference in LO releases or operation system fonts (?).

~~R
StGeorge  


Richard

A lot depends on your OS and its available fonts. Not all fonts have 
advanced features built in. I have found that Windows 10 seems to have 
more fonts with the available features than my implementation of Puppy 
Linux. On Windows, I can use Sitka Text, Palatino Linotype and Linux 
Libertine G to achieve true and proper superscripts. I'm sure there are 
others; I just haven't checked them all yet. On my Puppy Linux system, 
it seems that only Linux Libertine G and Source Serif Pro have the 
available features. Having never used Fedora, I have no idea what you 
might have available to you. If you're at all interested in fonts, I 
would highly recommend obtaining Linux Libertine G and its sans serif 
companion Linux Biolinum G. They are available in the Ubuntu-based 
repositories, so I assume they would be in whatever Fedora uses.


To see what advanced features are available on your particular machine 
for a given font, from within LO, click on Format > Character > Font and 
then click on the "Features" button directly below the font-size drop 
down list. You will then see a dialog box that will show the available 
features for that font. Not all features are available for all fonts, so 
you'll have to scroll through each font and click "Features" to see 
which ones are available.


Your results will also depend on how you "manually" create a 
superscript. As with all things LO, there are multiple ways to skin the 
cat and not all of them produce the desired results.


There are at least four different ways to obtain superscript ordinals. 
The first three listed below will produce what I'm calling "fake" 
shrunken superscripts with lighter stroke weight and condensed spacing. 
Only the fourth will produce properly weighted and spaced superscripts.


*Option 1* (fake superscript) --  With the option to "format ordinal 
numbers suffixes" selected in Tools > AutoCorrect Options > Localized 
Options just type the number desired (1st, 2nd, etc.) and press spacebar 
and the ordinal will automatically be converted to a "fake" superscript.


*Option 2* (fake superscript) -- With the AutoCorrect option 
UNnselected, type the number desired. Then select the ordinal ("st," 
"nd," "th", etc.) and click on the superscript icon in the Formatting 
Toolbar (assuming that icon appears in your particular toolbar as they 
are customizable). This will also produce a "fake" superscript. This is 
simply a manual way of achieving the same result that the AutoCorrect 
option automatically obtains.


*Option 3* (fake superscript) -- Again with the AutoCorrect option 
UNselected, type the number desired and select the ordinal. Then click 
on Format > Character > Position > Superscript. This is just another way 
of achieving the same results as found in Options 1 and 2, and will 
produce the same "fake" superscript. However, with this option, you can 
manually control how much LO shrinks the superscript and how much it 
raises it above the surrounding text. At least, with this option, you 
can reduce the adverse effects of LO's default font shrinking.


*Option 4* (true superscript) -- This option depends upon the font you 
use. Many fonts will have access to true superscripts; others will not. 
In Windows, for this test, you can use Palatino Linotype or Sitka Text. 
In Linux, if you have it, try Source Serif Pro. For both OS's you can 
use Linux Libertine G (http://www.numbertext.org/linux/). As with the 
other options, type the desired ordinal number in the appropriate font 
and select the ordinal to be raised to a superscript. Then click on 
Format > Character > Font. Make sure your desired font is selected in 
the drop down list of fonts. Then, click on the Features button 
immediately below the font size drop down box. In this dialog, you'll 
see a host of advanced features available for the font you've chosen, 
and the features will be different for each font. With Sitka Text, 
Palatino Linotype (Windows) and Source Serif Pro (Linux), you'll have an 
option to select superscript. Click on that. You will then immediately 
see the font name change to something like "Sitka Text:frac=1&sups". 
Everything after the : consists of a code implementing an advanced 
feature. The "frac=1" implements true fractions. (On my LO, this seems 
to be a default setting). The "sups" implements true superscripts with 
the "&" separating the codes. In addition to selecting features from the 
dialog box, you can manually type in the codes once you get to kn