Re: How do I point a mail client at Microsoft outlook?

[Frank Cox]

On Wed, 15 Jun 2011 19:56:12 -0700
Joe Zeff wrote:

> > It's my current understanding that you can use Thunderbird on
> > Windows to import a pst file and then import from that into Evolution or,
> > possibly, Sylpheed.
> >
> 
> Or, if you have a dual boot, use Thunderbird under Linux, which is what 
> I use.

It's my understanding (possibly out-of-date) that Thunderbird requires (or
required) some libraries that exist only on Windows to import pst files.


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Re: Special Characters

[Petrus de Calguarium]

Antonio Olivares wrote:

> You can use the compose command and set it up in ~/.bashrc
> Add a line
> 
> setxkbmap -option compose:ralt &

I use the menu key, to the right of right-alt, since right-alt is also known as 
Alt-Gr and it has a different function than left-alt.

left-alt-m does not print µ, while right-alt-m does print µ.

For this reason, I prefer not to lose the right-alt functionality. Menu is not 
used in Linux, I think, only in windows, so it can be used for compose.


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Re: systemd discussion

[夜神 岩男]

On Wed, 2011-06-15 at 20:15 -0700, Joe Zeff wrote:
> On 06/15/2011 04:19 PM, 夜神 岩男 wrote:
> > This sort of
> > developer often can't tell you who Fred Brooks, Eric Raymond, Donald
> > Knuth, Ken Thompson, or anyone similar are
> 
> And let's not forget the sane genius, Daniel J. Alderson.  JPL is still 
> using his programs to navigate space probes 25 years after his death, 
> but except for a few SF fans, nobody's ever heard of him.  We've all 
> heard about people who could write FORTRAN in any language, but Dan was 
> the only person I ever knew who could write PL/1 programs in FORTRAN. 
> He also knew how to turn off array bounds checking and do pointer 
> arithmetic in FORTRAN by addressing an array out of bounds.  I know; I 
> helped him do it back in the early '80s.

OK, you got me with the pointer arithmetic in FORTRAN trick. That is
precisely the sort of thing that the word "hack" was originally intended
to indicate and the sort of wizardry only available to those who have a
complete understanding of what is going on in the code, compiler and
hardware.

Which brings me to a point I haven't spelled out but hinted around that
Tim-of-the-famously-ignored-mailbox hit on "... not keen on... having
[the] computer staggering under the burden of a behemoth desktop." If
you take a look at the actual functionality inherent in the new desktop,
there is no solid reason for it to be so heavy, other than the choice of
implementation platform. Scripting some functionality in a high-ish
language (JavaScript, if I'm not mistaken) saves development time, but
it is a burden to all forever once developed. I would move that with
something as basic as the desktop this may be a good initial protoyping
model, but moving the desktop code closer to the metal would be a sound
solution.

But the discipline (and it is a discipline) of refactoring is lost on
many these days. On the other hand, consider the success Gnote had over
Tomboy. One required Mono and C#, the other was a faithful refactoring
in C++ that turned into a smashing success, blowing away the original
(tomboy was just orphaned, I believe). Despite the supposed benefits of
C#/Mono portability (or rather, "supposed portability of C#/Mono"),
standards-compliant C/C++ code can be recompiled to run (nearly)
anywhere. But doing it right (e.g. standards compliant and with as much
correct use of standard libraries as practical) is hard. And people
don't like that. In any case, by the end tomboy acted as a prototype for
what became the more mainstream app, Gnote. (Please note that I am not a
fan of overoptimization in code -- much evil lies down that tricky
path.)

We could probably lighten the system considerably if we backed down a
bit from the en vogue languages and spent some time refactoring the
good-but-heavy ideas and injected a bit more of the Unix philosophy into
those refactoring projects.

Another way of saying the above is that scripting used to be utilized
primarily for one-shot tasks, personal functions and prototyping, while
things like C and Lisp tended to wind up in production code. Scripting
provides great glue -- its awesome glue -- and it gives a developer of a
custom project a way to show the customer/world/himself in a jiffy "This
is what the thing will do/look like -- and if you like it we'll refactor
this in a real language and have it industrial strength in a few
months". Today, however, entire desktop managers and ERP systems are
written on interpreted language platforms in pure script (and I don't
mean bash). This is not, I think, what was originally intended when
higher languages were invented. All those layers introduce a lot of
overhead that I find a little awkward (and mystifying sometimes, to
uncover where a problem is occurring -- is it the interpreter, the
kernel, the virtualization layer, the script itself; what stack where is
host to a bug?).

And anyway, there are so many highly individualized vanity
languages/platforms now that you have to learn a whole new API just to
get under the skin of any new project now -- because the guy who had a
good idea for a new mail client learned Python in school but the guy who
had a good idea for a new MTA learned Ruby On Rails and the guy who
wrote the latest SPA you want to use on your new experimental mail
machine did it in Eiffel -- or whatever. This is not that odd of a
situation. I love languages, but this proliferation is getting a bit
ridiculous. One of the benefits Unix used to enjoy was its fairly
standardized (not so much in comittee, just de facto standardized) set
of development features and the omni-presence of bash and C. Once that
became bash, C and, sat, GTK we were really in business... but its just
gotten out of hand now, and that is not where Unix was originally meant
to go in my opinion.

But it certainly allows a single author to re-write ten versions of the
same book which all amount to "Basic problem solving and deconstruction
in [Some language]". If that author teaches at a 

Re: Special Characters

[Michael D. Setzer II]

On 15 Jun 2011 at 22:52, Petrus de Calguarium wrote:

To: users@lists.fedoraproject.org
From:   Petrus de Calguarium 
Subject:Re: Special Characters
Date sent:  Wed, 15 Jun 2011 22:52:05 -0600
Send reply to:  Community support for Fedora users 




> Tim wrote:
> 
> > Ever more, the need for the standard QWERTY keyboard (and its ilk) to be
> > abandoned has increased.  It's inadequate for anything more than primary
> > school beginner's English.
> 
> I've always wanted a keyboard that has the letters arranged in order. It 
> makes no sense for me, and likely 95% of other computer users, to have querty 
> or other unnatural key arrangements. I realize that they are based on 
> character frequency in English, which serve only stenographers who:
> 
Dvoark keyboard was designed for most keys used.
The QWERTY was designed to not jam as much with the old 
mechanical typewriters. 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dvorak_Simplified_Keyboard



> type with all 10 fingers, instead of picking with 2-3 fingers, like most 
> people do; and
> 
> write in only one language
> 
> Your suggestion of having extra keys for diactical and punctuation marks and 
> symbols is definitely a good one. It would be difficult to standardize all of 
> this to accommodate all languages, but to standardize it for all languages 
> that use the Roman alphabet and Arabic numerals, like most European languages 
> do, should not be that difficult. I wish manufacturers would put some thought 
> into this.
> 
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Re: Special Characters

[Petrus de Calguarium]

Patrick O'Callaghan wrote:

> The hardest to remember are ¿ and ¡

Really?

¿ is alt-/ (shift-/ is ?)
¡ is alt-1 (shift-1 is !)

I find those really obvious.

I just found ç and Ç. They're also somewhat obvious, but not based on the c.

ç is alt-,
Ç is shift-alt-,



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Re: Special Characters

[Petrus de Calguarium]

Joe Zeff wrote:

> No.  They were arranged that way to minimize the possibility of keyboard
> jams in early manual typewriters.

True. Now that you mention it, it jogs my memory.

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Re: How do I point a mail client at Microsoft outlook?

[L]

On Thu, Jun 16, 2011 at 2:19 PM, Patrick O'Callaghan
 wrote:
> On Wed, 2011-06-15 at 21:47 -0500, Michael Hennebry wrote:
>> On Wed, 15 Jun 2011, Patrick O'Callaghan wrote:
>>
>> > On Wed, 2011-06-15 at 17:39 -0500, Michael Hennebry wrote:
>> >> Alas, I expect not.  We are rapidly becoming a Windows-only shop.
>> >> I have my doubts they actually know.
>> >> I'm pretty sure Microsoft has the actual mail.
>> >> Supposing they do know, neither evolution nor
>> >> KMail is on their list of approved clients.
>> >> How should I phrase the question to avoid explicitly mentioning a client?
>> >
>> > Ask them how to access your mail from your smartphone. If you don't have
>> > one just pretend you're evaluating which one to get.
>>
>> Thank you for that suggestion.
>> It turns out that they have just that information on their website.
>> I was wrong about POP:
>>      * Account type: IMAP
>>      * Incoming mail server: imap.ndsu.nodak.edu
>>      * Incoming mail server encryption: SSL on port 993
>>      * Outgoing mail server: smtp.ndsu.nodak.edu
>>      * Outgoing mail server encryption: TLS on port 587
>>      * Username: Your NDSU Electronic ID
>>      * Password: Your NDSU Password
>>
>> That said, I still can't do it.
>> evolution tells me
>> evolution-mail-Message: Error occurred while existing dialogue active:
>> Could not connect to imap.ndsu.nodak.edu: Connection timed out
>
> Looks very standard and Evo (or TBird) should be able to handle it.
> There's nothing MS specific in that config info. Are you sure you've set
> up the ports as specified? Could there be an authenticated password
> step? To check from Evo, go to Edit->Preferences-> name>->Receiving Email and click "Check for supported types" under the
> Authentication Types heading.
>
> poc
>
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for exchange sever after 2007, you may use evolution-mapi or you can
use DavMail as bridge. Both work well for me.



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Re: Gnome3

[Brian Mury]

On Thu, 2011-06-16 at 19:17 -0400, Jayson Rowe wrote:
> The other way to get to your smaller windows is to either move your mouse 
> to the upper left-hand corener of your screen, or tap the "Super" (Windows 
> Key if your keyboard has one) which will bring up all windows you have 
> open at the time, and you can choose the one you want.

The other other ;-) way  to get to your smaller windows is to middle
click the title bar of the window that is covering them. That window
will get pushed behind the other windows.

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Re: Special Characters

[Joe Zeff]

On 06/15/2011 09:52 PM, Petrus de Calguarium wrote:
> I realize that they are based on
> character frequency in English,

No.  They were arranged that way to minimize the possibility of keyboard 
jams in early manual typewriters.
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Re: Special Characters

[Petrus de Calguarium]

Tim wrote:

> Ever more, the need for the standard QWERTY keyboard (and its ilk) to be
> abandoned has increased.  It's inadequate for anything more than primary
> school beginner's English.

I've always wanted a keyboard that has the letters arranged in order. It 
makes no sense for me, and likely 95% of other computer users, to have querty 
or other unnatural key arrangements. I realize that they are based on 
character frequency in English, which serve only stenographers who:

type with all 10 fingers, instead of picking with 2-3 fingers, like most 
people do; and

write in only one language

Your suggestion of having extra keys for diactical and punctuation marks and 
symbols is definitely a good one. It would be difficult to standardize all of 
this to accommodate all languages, but to standardize it for all languages 
that use the Roman alphabet and Arabic numerals, like most European languages 
do, should not be that difficult. I wish manufacturers would put some thought 
into this.

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Re: Special Characters

[Patrick O'Callaghan]

On Thu, 2011-06-16 at 12:41 +0930, Tim wrote:
> On Wed, 2011-06-15 at 14:50 -0430, Patrick O'Callaghan wrote:
> > IMHO this is the only reasonable way to do accented characters. The
> > "compose-key" combos are hopeless for people who actually use accents
> > continually, as I do in Spanish. The other option (using a special
> > language keyboard) can be even worse. Imagine a keyboard with no
> > visible @, |, {, #, \ etc. Monolingual programmers need to aware that
> > accents aren't an optional extra but something that if you need them
> > you need them all the time and in every context (outside actual
> > programming for the most part). 
> 
> I'm of the opposite persuasion.  I find it damn handy that ' characters,
> for instance, are simply typed, and don't require special typing.  But
> with the dead key approach, I find that simply typing plain English
> becomes the nightmare that users requiring what's foreign (to us) have
> had to put up with.  There's a lot of ordinary punctuation that, then,
> becomes a two key sequence.

Alternatively you can switch keyboard layouts, using the standard or
international one most of the time and switching to the other one when
required. However I find I just hit '+space automatically when I want
the apostrophe. De gustibus non est disputandum.

> Whereas it's more convenient, for me, to have to do special typing for
> the few unusual characters I need, and common punctuation is a single
> key, or perhaps with the shift key.  Ala using the compose method.

The operative word here being "few". My point is that for those of us
living in non-English speaking countries the need is not at all
occasional, it's constant.

> Both methods suck.
> 
> Ever more, the need for the standard QWERTY keyboard (and its ilk) to be
> abandoned has increased.  It's inadequate for anything more than primary
> school beginner's English.  Standard punctuation and programming
> characters need to be one-key-press events, and common typography
> characters need to be included as standard keys (e.g. the various dashes
> that people bodge up with double minus-hyphens, the inability to easily
> type non-breaking spaces and dashes).  They're a part of the written
> language.  Character permutations (e.g. the "a" with all the different
> accents it might use) needs to be better handled, without you needing to
> know all sorts of tricks that aren't even hinted about by the keyboard
> legends.  Not to mention how useless it is for languages with far more
> than 26 letters.

Straying into typesetting territory here. Type conventions evolved over
centuries to make text readable and fairly compact on the printed page,
but only pros can really handle them properly.

Slightly OT (or maybe not): a recent NY Times article reported on the
rapid death of handwriting skills as people increasingly use various
sorts of keyboards. Even those who still write by hand tend to use block
letters more often than not. My personal bugbear is those who post
messages to mailing lists without having managed to work out what the
Shift key is for, which is only slightly better than the ones who's Caps
Lock is apparently stuck at ON. But I digress ...

poc

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Re: Special Characters

[Patrick O'Callaghan]

On Wed, 2011-06-15 at 17:14 -0600, Petrus de Calguarium wrote:
> nomnex wrote:
> 
> > I used to simultaneously press ,  and  keys.
> > Release "U" key and enter Unicode symbol's hex code
> 
> Holy Moley! But you have to memorize the unicode hex code for each character. 
> You're right, it doesn't work in KDE.
> 
> > Linux compose key sequences method is a gem
> 
> I like them, too, for some of those character that I forget how to make. I 
> often forget the placement of the ç on the us-international layout. Where is 
> it 
> again?

No idea. What's needed is a handy Keymap applet to see this stuff, but
they tend to be DE-specific and I can never remember how to get to them.

poc

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Re: How do I point a mail client at Microsoft outlook?

[Patrick O'Callaghan]

On Wed, 2011-06-15 at 21:47 -0500, Michael Hennebry wrote:
> On Wed, 15 Jun 2011, Patrick O'Callaghan wrote:
> 
> > On Wed, 2011-06-15 at 17:39 -0500, Michael Hennebry wrote:
> >> Alas, I expect not.  We are rapidly becoming a Windows-only shop.
> >> I have my doubts they actually know.
> >> I'm pretty sure Microsoft has the actual mail.
> >> Supposing they do know, neither evolution nor
> >> KMail is on their list of approved clients.
> >> How should I phrase the question to avoid explicitly mentioning a client?
> >
> > Ask them how to access your mail from your smartphone. If you don't have
> > one just pretend you're evaluating which one to get.
> 
> Thank you for that suggestion.
> It turns out that they have just that information on their website.
> I was wrong about POP:
>  * Account type: IMAP
>  * Incoming mail server: imap.ndsu.nodak.edu
>  * Incoming mail server encryption: SSL on port 993
>  * Outgoing mail server: smtp.ndsu.nodak.edu
>  * Outgoing mail server encryption: TLS on port 587
>  * Username: Your NDSU Electronic ID
>  * Password: Your NDSU Password
> 
> That said, I still can't do it.
> evolution tells me
> evolution-mail-Message: Error occurred while existing dialogue active:
> Could not connect to imap.ndsu.nodak.edu: Connection timed out

Looks very standard and Evo (or TBird) should be able to handle it.
There's nothing MS specific in that config info. Are you sure you've set
up the ports as specified? Could there be an authenticated password
step? To check from Evo, go to Edit->Preferences->->Receiving Email and click "Check for supported types" under the
Authentication Types heading.

poc

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Re: systemd discussion

[Rahul Sundaram]

On 06/16/2011 04:53 AM, JB wrote:
> Here is the answer - you should be more sceptical about systemd's 
> "helpfulness":
>
> http://lists.fedoraproject.org/pipermail/devel/2011-June/152596.html

The mail you are referring to is wrong on several details.  IPV6 is
entirely optional in systemd for instance.  I would advise anyone
reading that mail to read the entire thread including the replies

Rahul


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Re: systemd discussion

[Rahul Sundaram]

On 06/16/2011 08:28 AM, Tim wrote:
> Most of the time, we don't.  But then it can be handy for some boxes to
> have different run-levels.
>
> e.g. A server that's usually left alone on the shelf, occasionally
> remote managed by command line.  Even less occasionally, you might plug
> a keyboard and monitor into it, and want a full graphical environment
> while you work on it.  It's handy to be able to start-up/shut-off all
> the unnecessary user-interfaces in one go.
>
> e.g. Fixing up a machine that's just gone out of whack.  It's handy to
> be able to easily start up in a mode where nearly all services are not
> started up.  So you can do repairs, or reset the list of what will
> start-up, and get a computer to actually finish booting when something
> it used to demand existed no-longer does (like NFS-mounted resources
> when you unplug a machine to use in another location).
>
> I'm yet to read how this important functionality, to a large number of
> people will be handled, with the move away from the old system.

http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/How_to_debug_Systemd_problems#Boot_into_rescue_mode_or_to_a_emergency_shell

Rahul

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Re: systemd, complex?

[Rahul Sundaram]

On 06/16/2011 02:17 AM, Stuart McGraw wrote:
>
> 'bochecha' was not the person who wrote the blog
> response that Ed Greshko quoted, he was the person 
> to whom the text was addressed.  The quoted response
> was written by Lennart if that changes your assessment
> of its credibility.  

It doesn't because my clarification had nothing to do with credibility
but correcting a misunderstanding that it was a "blog entry between
developers of systemd"   OP understands that now. 

Rahul
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Re: A clarification of Fedora philosophy.

[Joe Zeff]

On 06/15/2011 08:23 PM, Tim wrote:
> Not everything will fit on the DVD, so you install extras, afterwards.
>
> Gnome reckons you don't need to configure it to death, so many things
> are preset, and customisation requires fiddling under the hood.
>

I suspect that these two are the main reasons.  Thank you.
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Re: A clarification of Fedora philosophy.

[Tim]

On Wed, 2011-06-15 at 15:18 -0700, Joe Zeff wrote:
> I don't want to start Yet Another Flame War,

Yet, he asks the question that's gonna do it...  ;-)

> but does anybody know how or why such seemingly-obvious tools were
> left out?  Was it just a case of "so many programs, so little time?"

Hasn't this already been discussed on this list, several times, even
recently?

There's:




Not everything will fit on the DVD, so you install extras, afterwards.

Gnome reckons you don't need to configure it to death, so many things
are preset, and customisation requires fiddling under the hood.

Only die-hard fiddlers need that, so they can do it the hard way.

Someone else can make a gadget that makes configuration easier.

It's automated, so you don't need to know how to make it work.

How we do things changes so often that it's too much of a chore to keep
documentation up to date, or even write the initial documentation.
We'll let someone else do it.

A hundred different people produced this, and none of us can explain it
all, so none of us are going to try.




I think I've summarised most of it.  ;-\

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Re: systemd discussion

[Joe Zeff]

On 06/15/2011 04:19 PM, 夜神 岩男 wrote:
> This sort of
> developer often can't tell you who Fred Brooks, Eric Raymond, Donald
> Knuth, Ken Thompson, or anyone similar are

And let's not forget the sane genius, Daniel J. Alderson.  JPL is still 
using his programs to navigate space probes 25 years after his death, 
but except for a few SF fans, nobody's ever heard of him.  We've all 
heard about people who could write FORTRAN in any language, but Dan was 
the only person I ever knew who could write PL/1 programs in FORTRAN. 
He also knew how to turn off array bounds checking and do pointer 
arithmetic in FORTRAN by addressing an array out of bounds.  I know; I 
helped him do it back in the early '80s.
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Re: Special Characters

[Tim]

On Wed, 2011-06-15 at 14:50 -0430, Patrick O'Callaghan wrote:
> IMHO this is the only reasonable way to do accented characters. The
> "compose-key" combos are hopeless for people who actually use accents
> continually, as I do in Spanish. The other option (using a special
> language keyboard) can be even worse. Imagine a keyboard with no
> visible @, |, {, #, \ etc. Monolingual programmers need to aware that
> accents aren't an optional extra but something that if you need them
> you need them all the time and in every context (outside actual
> programming for the most part). 

I'm of the opposite persuasion.  I find it damn handy that ' characters,
for instance, are simply typed, and don't require special typing.  But
with the dead key approach, I find that simply typing plain English
becomes the nightmare that users requiring what's foreign (to us) have
had to put up with.  There's a lot of ordinary punctuation that, then,
becomes a two key sequence.

Whereas it's more convenient, for me, to have to do special typing for
the few unusual characters I need, and common punctuation is a single
key, or perhaps with the shift key.  Ala using the compose method.

Both methods suck.

Ever more, the need for the standard QWERTY keyboard (and its ilk) to be
abandoned has increased.  It's inadequate for anything more than primary
school beginner's English.  Standard punctuation and programming
characters need to be one-key-press events, and common typography
characters need to be included as standard keys (e.g. the various dashes
that people bodge up with double minus-hyphens, the inability to easily
type non-breaking spaces and dashes).  They're a part of the written
language.  Character permutations (e.g. the "a" with all the different
accents it might use) needs to be better handled, without you needing to
know all sorts of tricks that aren't even hinted about by the keyboard
legends.  Not to mention how useless it is for languages with far more
than 26 letters.

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Re: Special Characters

[nomnex]

On Wed, 15 Jun 2011 19:35:03 -0700 (PDT)
Antonio Olivares  wrote:

> nomnex,
> 
> You can use the compose command and set it up in ~/.bashrc 
> Add a line
> 
> setxkbmap -option compose:ralt &

Antonio, thank you!

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Re: How do I point a mail client at Microsoft outlook?

[Joe Zeff]

On 06/15/2011 03:44 PM, Michael Hennebry wrote:
> Ouch.  I'm pretty sure it's POP.

POP (or to be more accurate, POP3) just means that you download the mail 
to your client instead of having it "live" on the server.  If you expect 
to need any emails you get to be available at work, just be sure to tell 
your home client to leave it on the server after downloading it.
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Re: How do I point a mail client at Microsoft outlook?

[Joe Zeff]

On 06/15/2011 03:39 PM, Michael Hennebry wrote:
> Alas, I expect not.  We are rapidly becoming a Windows-only shop.
> I have my doubts they actually know.
> I'm pretty sure Microsoft has the actual mail.
> Supposing they do know, neither evolution nor
> KMail is on their list of approved clients.
> How should I phrase the question to avoid explicitly mentioning a client?

The server names are going to be the same no matter what email client 
(or OS) you use.  Just tell them that you want to collect your work 
email from home and you need the servers.  Then, just plug them in when 
you set up the account at home.
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Re: systemd discussion

[Tim]

On Wed, 2011-06-15 at 16:56 -0600, Petrus de Calguarium wrote:
> I never needed all of those run levels, It was just confusing and
> useless complexity. And 2-3 of them were always unused anyway, so
> getting rid of them was sensible.

Most of the time, we don't.  But then it can be handy for some boxes to
have different run-levels.

e.g. A server that's usually left alone on the shelf, occasionally
remote managed by command line.  Even less occasionally, you might plug
a keyboard and monitor into it, and want a full graphical environment
while you work on it.  It's handy to be able to start-up/shut-off all
the unnecessary user-interfaces in one go.

e.g. Fixing up a machine that's just gone out of whack.  It's handy to
be able to easily start up in a mode where nearly all services are not
started up.  So you can do repairs, or reset the list of what will
start-up, and get a computer to actually finish booting when something
it used to demand existed no-longer does (like NFS-mounted resources
when you unplug a machine to use in another location).

I'm yet to read how this important functionality, to a large number of
people will be handled, with the move away from the old system.

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Re: How do I point a mail client at Microsoft outlook?

[Joe Zeff]

On 06/15/2011 03:32 PM, Frank Cox wrote:
> It's my current understanding that you can use Thunderbird on
> Windows to import a pst file and then import from that into Evolution or,
> possibly, Sylpheed.
>

Or, if you have a dual boot, use Thunderbird under Linux, which is what 
I use.
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Re: systemd discussion

[Tim]

On Thu, 2011-06-16 at 01:00 +, JB wrote:
> Now, I think that Fedora (thru its Red Hat sponsorship) is acting "by
> ambush" - that is, there is very little consideration for opinion
> expressed by users *prior* to schedule of new major features
> (projects) to be implemented in next release.
> It is assumed that what Red Hat thinks is good for them, Fedora, and
> by simple extrapolation it must be for everybody associated with
> Fedora (formally or not).
> That's why I said the users and testers are treated instrumentally.


It's clear that we (on this user-list) are users, beta testers, and
guinea pigs.  And we have little function beyond finding and reporting
bugs, and explaining what we've found out to others asking questions
about how to do things.

On the developer lists are people with more input into how things will
be done, with more potential to influence changes.  

But how individual projects are managed is external, and upstream.  
i.e. How we get Gnome, KDE, Apache, OpenOffice, et cetera, implemented
are handled by those individual project groups.

As ever, the advice is, "if you don't like it, get involved in the
appropriate groups, or use something different."  Which means, join the
developers (some projects will be programmers only, others may have a
conglomeration of designers and programmers).  And can either mean
switching from Gnome to something else, or from Fedora to something
else.  It's always been that way; use what's pre-built, or make your
own.

And, as ever, some projects go off on tangents so wild that they're
unacceptable to people.  And projects will live and die by that.  If
they piss off their users that they abandon it in droves, it'll die off,
and something else becomes the new fad (e.g. we've gone from Netscape to
Firefox, as the main browser; and sound has gone from OSS to ALSA to
PulseAudio).  Or it may change direction again, and people might like
the new change.

I'm one of those who're not keen on the incredible change in system
requirements with the recent changes to KDE and Gnome.  It's almost
Windows-like in having computer staggering under the burden of a
behemoth desktop, when I bought hardware I expect to be used by the
applications, with the support system meant to be quietly in the
background.

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Re: How do I point a mail client at Microsoft outlook?

[Michael Hennebry]

On Wed, 15 Jun 2011, Patrick O'Callaghan wrote:

> On Wed, 2011-06-15 at 17:39 -0500, Michael Hennebry wrote:
>> Alas, I expect not.  We are rapidly becoming a Windows-only shop.
>> I have my doubts they actually know.
>> I'm pretty sure Microsoft has the actual mail.
>> Supposing they do know, neither evolution nor
>> KMail is on their list of approved clients.
>> How should I phrase the question to avoid explicitly mentioning a client?
>
> Ask them how to access your mail from your smartphone. If you don't have
> one just pretend you're evaluating which one to get.

Thank you for that suggestion.
It turns out that they have just that information on their website.
I was wrong about POP:
 * Account type: IMAP
 * Incoming mail server: imap.ndsu.nodak.edu
 * Incoming mail server encryption: SSL on port 993
 * Outgoing mail server: smtp.ndsu.nodak.edu
 * Outgoing mail server encryption: TLS on port 587
 * Username: Your NDSU Electronic ID
 * Password: Your NDSU Password

That said, I still can't do it.
evolution tells me
evolution-mail-Message: Error occurred while existing dialogue active:
Could not connect to imap.ndsu.nodak.edu: Connection timed out

-- 
Michael   henne...@web.cs.ndsu.nodak.edu
"Pessimist: The glass is half empty.
Optimist:   The glass is half full.
Engineer:   The glass is twice as big as it needs to be."
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rsyslogd bug?

[Mike Wright]

I think there is a bug in rsyslogd on f14.

According to the man page it very specifically states that a "kill -HUP 
pid" will reload rsyslogd.conf.  I tried modifying one of the rules in 
rsyslogd.conf followed by a HUP; I tried variations on the rule. 
Nothing mattered.  HUP did *not* pick up the changes.

So killall -TERM rsyslogd followed by /sbin/rsyslogd -c 4 and the new 
rules were picked up and it began to behave correctly.

Conclusion: either the man page is wrong or rsyslogd has a bug.

Mike Wright
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Re: Special Characters

[Antonio Olivares]

> > IMHO this is the only reasonable way to do accented
> characters.
> 
> I used to simultaneously press , 
> and  keys.
> Release "U" key and enter Unicode symbol's hex code (I use
> Fr/En)... It
> does not always work (eg. applications using a QT toolkit)
> 
> Linux compose key sequences method is a gem (first time to
> read about
> it)!
> 
> Could somebody help me setting the compose key on Fedora
> LXDE 13.
> I probably have to edit a text file. Which one, how, and
> its location
> would help. Thanks
> 
> 
> -- 
> nomnex 
> -- 

nomnex,

You can use the compose command and set it up in ~/.bashrc 
Add a line

setxkbmap -option compose:ralt &

save it and when you ready to compose you use the [right alt key]
+ the keys of characters you want to compose.  

For instance to put a n with a tilde ~, you use [ralt] + ~ then the n and you 
get ñ , for a an a with an accent á , etc

See 
http://sob.apotheon.org/?p=814

for more details. 

Regards,


Antonio 
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Re: systemd discussion

[JB]

夜神 岩男  yahoo.co.jp> writes:

> 
> Sorry, JB, I usually avoid posting (hence the trash email address), but
> not today because this hit home.
> 

Well, we are happy we woke you up :-)

> ...
> There are too many people to please and
> no possible way everyone can communicate everything to each other and
> discuss prior to making a decision on something.

I think many users/testers on this list are experienced and have a good sense
of what is important. If they are not sure about it, the exchange of opinions
here clears up their mind.

Fedora is, according to :
http://distrowatch.com/table.php?distribution=fedora

"The Fedora Project is an openly-developed project designed by Red Hat, open for
general participation, led by a meritocracy, following a set of project
objectives. The goal of The Fedora Project is to work with the Linux community
to build a complete, general purpose operating system exclusively from open
source software. Development will be done in a public forum."

Now, I think that Fedora (thru its Red Hat sponsorship) is acting "by ambush" -
that is, there is very little consideration for opinion expressed by users
*prior* to schedule of new major features (projects) to be implemented in next
release.
It is assumed that what Red Hat thinks is good for them, Fedora, and by
simple extrapolation it must be for everybody associated with Fedora (formally
or not).
That's why I said the users and testers are treated instrumentally.

The systemd is an example of a hard push and twisting of facts about others'
participation in adopting it that backfired.
The warnings were coming in advance from users community here. They were
ignored as noice.
Now they are coming even from within Red Hat itself, heavy guns judging by
quality of arguments presented (fundamental and technical).
Clearly, there is something wrong about the process of Fedora development.

Also, Red Hat and Fedora thru their systemd developer Lennart Poettering, and
GNOME 3 devs, together tried to ambush Linux community at large, when they
"proposed" a mutual dependency plan, exclusive to Linux and "screw other UNIX
and Linux distros", in which the role of systemd went far beyond its original
purpose to be a replacement of system init.
That alienated many people from different corners of Linux *and* UNIX domains,
as could be seen in tech magazines and various discussion forums.

I think all these mishaps and encountered resistance are examples of bad PR
for Red Hat and Fedora.

I think there is a need to think about it.
Please take the users and your own people more seriously if you want a viable
community, Fedora distro, and later collect fruits of your past actions.

JB


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Re: Gnome3

[Vinny Onelli]

> From: Jayson Rowe 
> Subject: Re: Gnome3

> On Wed, 15 Jun 2011, Vinny Onelli wrote:
> 
> > Hello,
> > I installed Fedora 15, now I am struggling with gnome3. Here is one
> > thing that I can't seam to find the way to solve, if I have 2 window
> > open one is full screen and the other is smaller, clicking to the full
> > screen pushes the smaller behind. how to reduce the size of the full
> > screen?
> > I appreciate if some one can direct me to find the handle.
> > It looks like I am going to have a lot of fun with gnome3.
> > Thank you Vinny.
> >
> 
> Hi Vinny!
> By default GNOME 3 only has a "Close" button on Windows, but there are a 
> couple of ways to get your smaller window back. If you want to do it in 
> the way you describe (make Maximized window smaller), double-click 
> the title-bar of the maximized window, and this will restore it.
> 
> The other way to get to your smaller windows is to either move your mouse 
> to the upper left-hand corener of your screen, or tap the "Super" (Windows 
> Key if your keyboard has one) which will bring up all windows you have 
> open at the time, and you can choose the one you want.
> 
> I hope this helps you with your problem!
> 
> Jayson
> 
It definitely does, thank you very much also to answer back so quick.

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Re: systemd discussion

[Mike Wright]

On 06/15/2011 04:19 PM, 夜神 岩男 wrote:
> Sorry, JB, I usually avoid posting (hence the trash email address), but
> not today because this hit home.
>
> On Wed, 2011-06-15 at 22:06 +, JB wrote:
>> Clyde E. Kunkel  cox.net>  writes:
>>
>>> ...
>>> All this said, I am beginning to believe Fedora is more and more an
>>> experiment in social engineering.
>>> ...
>>
>> That's a well-chosen remark :-)
>> "Social engineering is the art of manipulating people into performing
>> actions...".
>
> Sometimes this does seem the case, but on the other hand considering the
> size of the open source community these days (as opposed to say, 1994,
> before there was a real label for it) there is no way to make a decision
> that everyone will agree with. There are too many people to please and
> no possible way everyone can communicate everything to each other and
> discuss prior to making a decision on something. Of course, these days
> blogging has trained people to be more self-important *and* noisier than
> ever. Another way of saying this is perhaps that the self-important used
> to do more and say less, and by simply doing they were de facto in
> charge. Argument from irrelevant people clogs lists more than it used to
> -- or perhaps I am getting old and nostalgic.
>
> Of course the "quietly doing" part above is, and forever will be, the
> secret to having things your way in open source -- or actually in any
> tech. Working implementations of ideas carry far more weight than any
> argument in a mailing list.
>
>> I am also surprised (have been for long time) by seeing Linux projects 
>> violating
>> UNIX principles of software development.
>> In this particular context, I am disappointed that they, apparently, lack
>> oversight by management, starting with the design phase.
>
> This does not surprise me in the least. As open source has become more
> high profile it has attracted the attention of and absorbed the vanity
> developers who used to write their pet apps in Pascal, QBASIC or Java on
> Windows (or OS/2 if they were l33+), and now play with whatever vanity
> language is popular this week from within the confines of whatever open
> source project they think will make them famous(ish). This sort of
> developer often can't tell you who Fred Brooks, Eric Raymond, Donald
> Knuth, Ken Thompson, or anyone similar are and haven't read anything
> they've written for our benefit about design or the Unixy way to solve
> problems.
>
> Chicken lipstick is in high demand, automated text processing through
> intelligent use of shell scripts is down, overly complex solutions are
> up, overweight software is up, the number of people who have ever
> learned to configure their system starting with a minimal install (not
> even touching the number of users who can't build their own system from
> source) is way down, etc.
>
> These are simply signs that the community has changed because the people
> who remember what the Unixy way of doing things was has become a much
> smaller percentage of the population as we've absorbed a million haX0r
> d00dz from the Windows world. That expansion is not bad and the new guys
> certainly mean well, but we've definitely not done enough to familiarize
> newcomers with the history of Unix, who the original old guys were, what
> they were thinking, and the depth of thought that went into a project
> before the first line of code was written back in the day.
>
> It doesn't help that C and Lisp are considered "too hard" to teach in
> allegedly credible CS undergrad courses these days. Specific discussion
> in class about what happens within a compiler and how processors
> actually process things has been replaced with rather vague generalities
> (those are "deep subjects that you don't need to worry about") and freed
> the instructors to focus on teaching elementary problem solving in Java
> and Python as if it is deep CS skill. In other words, elementary problem
> solving logic and problem deconstruction theory is now masquerading as
> deep computer science -- the technicals are scary so they are to be
> avoided (what if my students aren't smart enough to pass?!? I might look
> like a bad instructor -- best avoid pointer math and recursion this
> go-around...).
>
> Without achieving that critical mass of fundamental knowledge it is very
> difficult for newcomers to the community to identify exactly why the
> Unix way is better than the Windows way. Their choice to join the open
> source community is therefore based largely on emotional and social
> factors -- this is counter-cultural, it's against The Man/M$/Whoever, "I
> think I have better security (but I don't know what that means on a deep
> level)", its cheaper, etc. -- not on technical grounds. Any reason is
> adequate in my view, but without a firmly set social more that guides
> newcomers to familiarize themselves with the roots of Unix and do their
> basic homework we cannot realistically expect Linux to remain Unixy
> forever.
>
> Just my

Re: How do I point a mail client at Microsoft outlook?

[Michael Hennebry]

On Wed, 15 Jun 2011, Matthew Saltzman wrote:

> On Wed, 2011-06-15 at 18:24 -0500, Michael Hennebry wrote:
>
>>
>> That leaves the blanks I need to fill in.
>>> From migration information given to Mac users,
>> I gather at least part of one answer is red001.mail.microsoftonline.com .
>> If so, is that incoming server, outgoing server or something else.
>>
>
> Unless Microsoft is handling NoDak's e-mail, that sounds wrong.  But if

Yup.  Microsoft has our e-mail.

> it's the right server, it will be the only one for Exchange OWA or MAPI.
> For IMAP/SMTP, it could be correct for both (or not...).

-- 
Michael   henne...@web.cs.ndsu.nodak.edu
"Pessimist: The glass is half empty.
Optimist:   The glass is half full.
Engineer:   The glass is twice as big as it needs to be."
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Re: How do I point a mail client at Microsoft outlook?

[Matthew Saltzman]

On Wed, 2011-06-15 at 18:24 -0500, Michael Hennebry wrote:

> 
> That leaves the blanks I need to fill in.
> >From migration information given to Mac users,
> I gather at least part of one answer is red001.mail.microsoftonline.com .
> If so, is that incoming server, outgoing server or something else.
> 

Unless Microsoft is handling NoDak's e-mail, that sounds wrong.  But if
it's the right server, it will be the only one for Exchange OWA or MAPI.
For IMAP/SMTP, it could be correct for both (or not...).
-- 
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Clemson University
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Re: Gnome3

[Matthew Saltzman]

On Thu, 2011-06-16 at 19:17 -0400, Jayson Rowe wrote: 
> 
> On Wed, 15 Jun 2011, Vinny Onelli wrote:
> 
> > Hello,
> > I installed Fedora 15, now I am struggling with gnome3. Here is one
> > thing that I can't seam to find the way to solve, if I have 2 window
> > open one is full screen and the other is smaller, clicking to the full
> > screen pushes the smaller behind. how to reduce the size of the full
> > screen?
> > I appreciate if some one can direct me to find the handle.
> > It looks like I am going to have a lot of fun with gnome3.
> > Thank you Vinny.
> >
> 
> Hi Vinny!
> By default GNOME 3 only has a "Close" button on Windows, but there are a 
> couple of ways to get your smaller window back. If you want to do it in 
> the way you describe (make Maximized window smaller), double-click 
> the title-bar of the maximized window, and this will restore it.

Or right-click.  Also, if you get the gnome-tweak-tool RPM, you can
change what buttons appear on the title bar, as well as fonts and some
other options.

> 
> The other way to get to your smaller windows is to either move your mouse 
> to the upper left-hand corener of your screen, or tap the "Super" (Windows 
> Key if your keyboard has one) which will bring up all windows you have 
> open at the time, and you can choose the one you want.
> 
> I hope this helps you with your problem!
> 
> Jayson
> 

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Re: How do I point a mail client at Microsoft outlook?

[Matthew Saltzman]

On Wed, 2011-06-15 at 17:16 -0500, Michael Hennebry wrote: 
> For work, I have had to use Microsoft outlook for e-mail.
> I'd like to be able to get at it through either
> KMail or evolution on my home F13 machine.
> I've tried to set up both without success.
> That I've never used a mail client before probably doesn't help.
> 
> With KMail I'm stuck when I get to
> Server Innformation
> Incoming server:
> Outgoing server:
> Use local delivery
> 
> With evolution, I'm stuck when I get to the "Receiving Email" page.
> For server, I'm completely stuck.
> Which username?
> My name on my box or the username part of my e-mail address?

Mike-

If you are talking about connecting to an Exchange server, there are a
few options, and you might need the cooperation of your server admins.

The only Linux client that I know of that tries to work with Exchange is
Evolution (but see below).  Here's what you can do:

For Exchange 2007 or earlier, on the Receiving page, select Microsoft
Exchange as the server type.  (That uses the old OWA--Outlook Web
Access--protocol.)  Your username is probably just the name part of your
e-mail address, not the domain.  You'll need your admin to give you the
OWA URL.

For Exchange 2010, you can try the Exchange MAPI server type.  Your
admin can tell you the server and "domain name" (that's Exchange domain,
not DNS domain).  The MAPI interface is not yet feature complete, but it
seemed more or less functional last time I tried it.

If neither of those work for you, you can try the IMAP interface.  Not
all Exchange servers offer IMAP--that's up to your admin.  If IMAP is
available, you can use any mail client, but you won't be able to get
calendar, contact, and task data.

For Exchange protocols, receiving and sending are configured together.
For IMAP, you'll need to send mail via SMTP, so you'll need the server
name for that from your admin as well.

Most of the rest should be more or less self explanatory.  You may need
to get your admin's advice about encryption and authentication
protocols.

HTH.

> 

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Re: Special Characters

[nomnex]

nobody to help me setting a compose key on LXDE? I found an article
about editing XORG.

in /usr/share/X11/xkb/rules, the xorg file is now auto generated.
And it says do DO NOT EDIT THIS FILE.

I have include this command in my bashrc file to be able to switch from
US/CH(F) "setxkbmap -layout "jp,ch(fr)" -option "grp:alt_shift_toggle"

There is probably a file I could set &the compose key, &the keyboard
layout?

Anyone?

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Re: How do I point a mail client at Microsoft outlook?

[Michael Hennebry]

On Wed, 15 Jun 2011, Patrick O'Callaghan wrote:

> On Wed, 2011-06-15 at 17:44 -0500, Michael Hennebry wrote:
>> On Wed, 15 Jun 2011, Frank Cox wrote:
>>
>>> On Wed, 15 Jun 2011 17:16:58 -0500 (CDT)
>>> Michael Hennebry wrote:
>>>
 For work, I have had to use Microsoft outlook for e-mail.
 I'd like to be able to get at it through either
 KMail or evolution on my home F13 machine.
 I've tried to set up both without success.
 That I've never used a mail client before probably doesn't help.
>>>
>>> Microsoft Outlook IS a mail client.

Apparently the correct term is exchange,
a term not used in the migration information we were given.

>>> If you want to be able to use both Microsoft Outlook and a Linux mail 
>>> client in
>>> tandem, i.e. check and respond to your email from both systems, then you 
>>> will
>>> require a mail server that supports the imap protocol.  Depending on who
>>> provides your email service (your isp, usually) this capability may or may 
>>> not
>>> be provided.
>>
>> Ouch.  I'm pretty sure it's POP.
>
> Then you're laughing. Any of the Linux mail clients can read POP as long
> as you know how to authenticate to the server.

That leaves the blanks I need to fill in.
>From migration information given to Mac users,
I gather at least part of one answer is red001.mail.microsoftonline.com .
If so, is that incoming server, outgoing server or something else.

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Optimist:   The glass is half full.
Engineer:   The glass is twice as big as it needs to be."
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Re: systemd discussion

[JB]

Petrus de Calguarium  writes:

> ... 
> Why shouldn't it load modules on its own? If the system can take care of 
> running itself, then all the less for me to worry about. I don't want to have 
> to configure every little thing; I want the system to run itself. But, I do 
> like to be able to configure those things that interest me. I think that 
> Fedora 15, as it is now, allows me this.
> 

Here is the answer - you should be more sceptical about systemd's "helpfulness":

http://lists.fedoraproject.org/pipermail/devel/2011-June/152596.html

> ... 
> If you don't like gnome 3 or kde 4, then there are lots of other window 
> managers in the fedora repos, or you can go all cli by logging in to vt-2 to 
> vt6.
> 

Yes, indeed - LXDE is my new desktop. I love classics :-)

JB


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Re: systemd discussion

[夜神 岩男]

Sorry, JB, I usually avoid posting (hence the trash email address), but
not today because this hit home.

On Wed, 2011-06-15 at 22:06 +, JB wrote:
> Clyde E. Kunkel  cox.net> writes:
> 
> > ...
> > All this said, I am beginning to believe Fedora is more and more an
> > experiment in social engineering.
> > ...
> 
> That's a well-chosen remark :-)
> "Social engineering is the art of manipulating people into performing
> actions...".

Sometimes this does seem the case, but on the other hand considering the
size of the open source community these days (as opposed to say, 1994,
before there was a real label for it) there is no way to make a decision
that everyone will agree with. There are too many people to please and
no possible way everyone can communicate everything to each other and
discuss prior to making a decision on something. Of course, these days
blogging has trained people to be more self-important *and* noisier than
ever. Another way of saying this is perhaps that the self-important used
to do more and say less, and by simply doing they were de facto in
charge. Argument from irrelevant people clogs lists more than it used to
-- or perhaps I am getting old and nostalgic.

Of course the "quietly doing" part above is, and forever will be, the
secret to having things your way in open source -- or actually in any
tech. Working implementations of ideas carry far more weight than any
argument in a mailing list.

> I am also surprised (have been for long time) by seeing Linux projects 
> violating
> UNIX principles of software development.
> In this particular context, I am disappointed that they, apparently, lack
> oversight by management, starting with the design phase.

This does not surprise me in the least. As open source has become more
high profile it has attracted the attention of and absorbed the vanity
developers who used to write their pet apps in Pascal, QBASIC or Java on
Windows (or OS/2 if they were l33+), and now play with whatever vanity
language is popular this week from within the confines of whatever open
source project they think will make them famous(ish). This sort of
developer often can't tell you who Fred Brooks, Eric Raymond, Donald
Knuth, Ken Thompson, or anyone similar are and haven't read anything
they've written for our benefit about design or the Unixy way to solve
problems.

Chicken lipstick is in high demand, automated text processing through
intelligent use of shell scripts is down, overly complex solutions are
up, overweight software is up, the number of people who have ever
learned to configure their system starting with a minimal install (not
even touching the number of users who can't build their own system from
source) is way down, etc.

These are simply signs that the community has changed because the people
who remember what the Unixy way of doing things was has become a much
smaller percentage of the population as we've absorbed a million haX0r
d00dz from the Windows world. That expansion is not bad and the new guys
certainly mean well, but we've definitely not done enough to familiarize
newcomers with the history of Unix, who the original old guys were, what
they were thinking, and the depth of thought that went into a project
before the first line of code was written back in the day.

It doesn't help that C and Lisp are considered "too hard" to teach in
allegedly credible CS undergrad courses these days. Specific discussion
in class about what happens within a compiler and how processors
actually process things has been replaced with rather vague generalities
(those are "deep subjects that you don't need to worry about") and freed
the instructors to focus on teaching elementary problem solving in Java
and Python as if it is deep CS skill. In other words, elementary problem
solving logic and problem deconstruction theory is now masquerading as
deep computer science -- the technicals are scary so they are to be
avoided (what if my students aren't smart enough to pass?!? I might look
like a bad instructor -- best avoid pointer math and recursion this
go-around...).

Without achieving that critical mass of fundamental knowledge it is very
difficult for newcomers to the community to identify exactly why the
Unix way is better than the Windows way. Their choice to join the open
source community is therefore based largely on emotional and social
factors -- this is counter-cultural, it's against The Man/M$/Whoever, "I
think I have better security (but I don't know what that means on a deep
level)", its cheaper, etc. -- not on technical grounds. Any reason is
adequate in my view, but without a firmly set social more that guides
newcomers to familiarize themselves with the roots of Unix and do their
basic homework we cannot realistically expect Linux to remain Unixy
forever.

Just my $2.00.

-Iwao



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Re: Gnome3

[Jayson Rowe]

On Wed, 15 Jun 2011, Vinny Onelli wrote:

> Hello,
> I installed Fedora 15, now I am struggling with gnome3. Here is one
> thing that I can't seam to find the way to solve, if I have 2 window
> open one is full screen and the other is smaller, clicking to the full
> screen pushes the smaller behind. how to reduce the size of the full
> screen?
> I appreciate if some one can direct me to find the handle.
> It looks like I am going to have a lot of fun with gnome3.
> Thank you Vinny.
>

Hi Vinny!
By default GNOME 3 only has a "Close" button on Windows, but there are a 
couple of ways to get your smaller window back. If you want to do it in 
the way you describe (make Maximized window smaller), double-click 
the title-bar of the maximized window, and this will restore it.

The other way to get to your smaller windows is to either move your mouse 
to the upper left-hand corener of your screen, or tap the "Super" (Windows 
Key if your keyboard has one) which will bring up all windows you have 
open at the time, and you can choose the one you want.

I hope this helps you with your problem!

Jayson
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Re: Special Characters

[Petrus de Calguarium]

nomnex wrote:

> I used to simultaneously press ,  and  keys.
> Release "U" key and enter Unicode symbol's hex code

Holy Moley! But you have to memorize the unicode hex code for each character. 
You're right, it doesn't work in KDE.

> Linux compose key sequences method is a gem

I like them, too, for some of those character that I forget how to make. I 
often forget the placement of the ç on the us-international layout. Where is it 
again?


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Re: Special Characters

[Patrick O'Callaghan]

On Wed, 2011-06-15 at 16:59 -0600, Petrus de Calguarium wrote:
> Patrick O'Callaghan wrote:
> 
> > Or diacritical+space, which works all the time. I speak as one with an
> > apostrophe in my name :-)
> 
> I have an ü :-) but in English, I usually just use ue.
> 

ü pops up in Spanish now and again, though not as frequently as ñ. The
hardest to remember are ¿ and ¡ (open query and open exclamation mark)
because they aren't accents but independent punctuation signs.

poc

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Re: How do I point a mail client at Microsoft outlook?

[Patrick O'Callaghan]

On Wed, 2011-06-15 at 17:44 -0500, Michael Hennebry wrote:
> On Wed, 15 Jun 2011, Frank Cox wrote:
> 
> > On Wed, 15 Jun 2011 17:16:58 -0500 (CDT)
> > Michael Hennebry wrote:
> >
> >> For work, I have had to use Microsoft outlook for e-mail.
> >> I'd like to be able to get at it through either
> >> KMail or evolution on my home F13 machine.
> >> I've tried to set up both without success.
> >> That I've never used a mail client before probably doesn't help.
> >
> > Microsoft Outlook IS a mail client.
> 
> I've just been using the web interface.
> Before the migration, I'd used Squirrel Mail.
> 
> > If you want to be able to use both Microsoft Outlook and a Linux mail 
> > client in
> > tandem, i.e. check and respond to your email from both systems, then you 
> > will
> > require a mail server that supports the imap protocol.  Depending on who
> > provides your email service (your isp, usually) this capability may or may 
> > not
> > be provided.
> 
> Ouch.  I'm pretty sure it's POP.

Then you're laughing. Any of the Linux mail clients can read POP as long
as you know how to authenticate to the server.

poc

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Re: Special Characters

[Petrus de Calguarium]

Patrick O'Callaghan wrote:

> Or diacritical+space, which works all the time. I speak as one with an
> apostrophe in my name :-)

I have an ü :-) but in English, I usually just use ue.

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Re: How do I point a mail client at Microsoft outlook?

[Patrick O'Callaghan]

On Wed, 2011-06-15 at 17:39 -0500, Michael Hennebry wrote:
> On Wed, 15 Jun 2011, Joe Zeff wrote:
> 
> > On 06/15/2011 03:16 PM, Michael Hennebry wrote:
> >> With KMail I'm stuck when I get to
> >> Server Innformation
> >> Incoming server:
> >> Outgoing server:
> >> Use local delivery
> >>
> >
> > There was a time when I could easily have talked you through finding the
> > information in Outlook, but I happily recycled those neurons years ago.
> >  Talk to the helpdesk at work, tell them what you need and they'll give
> > you everything you need.  HTH, HAND.
> 
> Alas, I expect not.  We are rapidly becoming a Windows-only shop.
> I have my doubts they actually know.
> I'm pretty sure Microsoft has the actual mail.
> Supposing they do know, neither evolution nor
> KMail is on their list of approved clients.
> How should I phrase the question to avoid explicitly mentioning a client?

Ask them how to access your mail from your smartphone. If you don't have
one just pretend you're evaluating which one to get.

poc

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Re: How do I point a mail client at Microsoft outlook?

[Patrick O'Callaghan]

On Wed, 2011-06-15 at 18:39 -0400, Sam Varshavchik wrote:
> Michael Hennebry writes:
> 
> > For work, I have had to use Microsoft outlook for e-mail.
> > I'd like to be able to get at it through either
> > KMail or evolution on my home F13 machine.
> > I've tried to set up both without success.
> > That I've never used a mail client before probably doesn't help.
> >
> > With KMail I'm stuck when I get to
> > Server Innformation
> > Incoming server:
> > Outgoing server:
> > Use local delivery
> 
> Ask your helpdesk at work for IMAP and SMTP connection and login information  
> for your Exchange account.
> 
> There's a slim chance that you'll get lucky and they won't react as if  
> you've grown a second head on your shoulders, and give you that; then you'll  
> just plug that into the above dialogs.
> 
> If your Exchange server does not have IMAP and SMTP enabled, you're out of  
> luck.

Not entirely. Exchange supports something called OWA (Outlook Web
Access), and Evolution can talk to Exchange servers outside of IMAP.

poc

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Re: How do I point a mail client at Microsoft outlook?

[Patrick O'Callaghan]

On Wed, 2011-06-15 at 17:16 -0500, Michael Hennebry wrote:
> For work, I have had to use Microsoft outlook for e-mail.
> I'd like to be able to get at it through either
> KMail or evolution on my home F13 machine.
> I've tried to set up both without success.
> That I've never used a mail client before probably doesn't help.
> 
> With KMail I'm stuck when I get to
> Server Innformation
> Incoming server:
> Outgoing server:
> Use local delivery
> 
> With evolution, I'm stuck when I get to the "Receiving Email" page.
> For server, I'm completely stuck.
> Which username?
> My name on my box or the username part of my e-mail address?

Evolution has plugins that can be used to connect to an Exchange server
using MS protocols, but it has to be set up and there's more than one
way to do it. Since I've never had to deal with this myself, my
recommendation is that you ask on the Evolution list
(http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/evolution-list) where this topic
is frequently discussed.

poc

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Re: systemd discussion

[Ralf Corsepius]

On 06/16/2011 12:13 AM, Tom Horsley wrote:
> On Wed, 15 Jun 2011 19:39:38 + (UTC)
> JB wrote:
>
>> There are people on test and user lists who are afraid to even touch F15 ...
>> and the reasons are systemd, GNOME 3, etc. Things called "progress" ...

Well, I am "sufficiently impressed" by F15 for not using it :)

> I rather like systemd, not because I feel like I'll ever be able to
> understand it ("mind numbing complexity" is a phrase that comes to
> mind :-),
So far, I am having problems to find reasons to like it :=)

It certainly solves a couple of problems sysvinit/upstart had, but is 
introducing new ones and without any doubt has integration issues.

> but because it really and truly does indeed boot the system
> much much faster. Not small percentage benchmark faster, but big
> human perceptible speed increases.
Really? I measure almost identical times for cold-booting F14 rsp. F15.

 From grub-prompt into gdm: both ca. 60s (wrist watch measured; 
Identical machine, similar configurations, parallel installation into 
different partitions of the same disk).

Ralf


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Re: systemd discussion

[Petrus de Calguarium]

JB wrote:

> - going beyond system init replacement
> - not adhering to UNIX principles (modularity, etc)
> - interference with sysadmin duties/decisions to set up the system (e.g.
>   loading modules on its own and e.g. enabling sys capabilities and
>   protocols)

It would be nice if there were more integration with system-config-services 
or a better, more modern replacement.

I never needed all of those run levels, It was just confusing and useless 
complexity. And 2-3 of them were always unused anyway, so getting rid of them 
was sensible.

Why shouldn't it load modules on its own? If the system can take care of 
running itself, then all the less for me to worry about. I don't want to have 
to configure every little thing; I want the system to run itself. But, I do 
like to be able to configure those things that interest me. I think that 
Fedora 15, as it is now, allows me this.

> There are people on test and user lists who are afraid to even touch F15
> ... and the reasons are systemd, GNOME 3, etc. Things called "progress"

That's their problem. My computers are running as I want them to and I have 
no complaints. Love progress, even when it means I have to unlearn some old 
stuff and adapt to improvements.

If you don't like gnome 3 or kde 4, then there are lots of other window 
managers in the fedora repos, or you can go all cli by logging in to vt-2 to 
vt6.


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Re: Special Characters

[nomnex]

On Wed, 15 Jun 2011 14:50:56 -0430
Patrick O'Callaghan  wrote:

> IMHO this is the only reasonable way to do accented characters.

I used to simultaneously press ,  and  keys.
Release "U" key and enter Unicode symbol's hex code (I use Fr/En)... It
does not always work (eg. applications using a QT toolkit)

Linux compose key sequences method is a gem (first time to read about
it)!

Could somebody help me setting the compose key on Fedora LXDE 13.
I probably have to edit a text file. Which one, how, and its location
would help. Thanks


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Re: How do I point a mail client at Microsoft outlook?

[Michael Hennebry]

On Wed, 15 Jun 2011, Frank Cox wrote:

> On Wed, 15 Jun 2011 17:16:58 -0500 (CDT)
> Michael Hennebry wrote:
>
>> For work, I have had to use Microsoft outlook for e-mail.
>> I'd like to be able to get at it through either
>> KMail or evolution on my home F13 machine.
>> I've tried to set up both without success.
>> That I've never used a mail client before probably doesn't help.
>
> Microsoft Outlook IS a mail client.

I've just been using the web interface.
Before the migration, I'd used Squirrel Mail.

> If you want to be able to use both Microsoft Outlook and a Linux mail client 
> in
> tandem, i.e. check and respond to your email from both systems, then you will
> require a mail server that supports the imap protocol.  Depending on who
> provides your email service (your isp, usually) this capability may or may not
> be provided.

Ouch.  I'm pretty sure it's POP.

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"Pessimist: The glass is half empty.
Optimist:   The glass is half full.
Engineer:   The glass is twice as big as it needs to be."
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Re: How do I point a mail client at Microsoft outlook?

[Michael Hennebry]

On Wed, 15 Jun 2011, Joe Zeff wrote:

> On 06/15/2011 03:16 PM, Michael Hennebry wrote:
>> With KMail I'm stuck when I get to
>> Server Innformation
>> Incoming server:
>> Outgoing server:
>> Use local delivery
>>
>
> There was a time when I could easily have talked you through finding the
> information in Outlook, but I happily recycled those neurons years ago.
>  Talk to the helpdesk at work, tell them what you need and they'll give
> you everything you need.  HTH, HAND.

Alas, I expect not.  We are rapidly becoming a Windows-only shop.
I have my doubts they actually know.
I'm pretty sure Microsoft has the actual mail.
Supposing they do know, neither evolution nor
KMail is on their list of approved clients.
How should I phrase the question to avoid explicitly mentioning a client?

-- 
Michael   henne...@web.cs.ndsu.nodak.edu
"Pessimist: The glass is half empty.
Optimist:   The glass is half full.
Engineer:   The glass is twice as big as it needs to be."
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Re: How do I point a mail client at Microsoft outlook?

[Sam Varshavchik]

Michael Hennebry writes:


For work, I have had to use Microsoft outlook for e-mail.
I'd like to be able to get at it through either
KMail or evolution on my home F13 machine.
I've tried to set up both without success.
That I've never used a mail client before probably doesn't help.

With KMail I'm stuck when I get to
Server Innformation
Incoming server:
Outgoing server:
Use local delivery


Ask your helpdesk at work for IMAP and SMTP connection and login information  
for your Exchange account.


There's a slim chance that you'll get lucky and they won't react as if  
you've grown a second head on your shoulders, and give you that; then you'll  
just plug that into the above dialogs.


If your Exchange server does not have IMAP and SMTP enabled, you're out of  
luck.




pgpGdcVHAASyw.pgp
Description: PGP signature
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Re: systemd discussion

[JB]

Tom Horsley  gmail.com> writes:

> ...

I am going easy about systemd.
I am not sure it is going to survive as is ... 

Just a small example.
# yum info avahi
...
Description : Avahi is a system which facilitates service discovery on
: a local network -- this means that you can plug your laptop or
: computer into a network and instantly be able to view other
: people who you can chat with, find printers to print to or find
: files being shared. This kind of technology is already found in
: MacOS X (branded 'Rendezvous', 'Bonjour' and sometimes
: 'ZeroConf') and is very convenient.
...

I used to remove avahi package from my systems prior to F15 - no need for
"zeroconf" here. And I could do it, if I remember it.

With F15, try it:
# yum remove avahi
...
===
 Package  Arch   VersionRepositorySize
===
Removing:
 avahii686   0.6.30-3.fc15  @koji-override-1/$releasever 997 k
Removing for dependencies:
 avahi-compat-libdns_sd
  i686   0.6.30-3.fc15  @koji-override-1/$releasever  30 k
 avahi-glib   i686   0.6.30-3.fc15  @koji-override-1/$releasever  10 k
 gigolo   i686   0.4.1-2.fc15   @koji-override-0/$releasever 546 k
 gnome-vfs2   i686   2.24.4-5.fc15  @koji-override-0/$releasever 3.3 M
 gnomebaker   i686   0.6.4-10.fc15  @koji-override-0/$releasever 2.0 M
 gvfs i686   1.8.2-1.fc15   @updates 5.1 M
 libbonoboui  i686   2.24.5-1.fc15  @koji-override-0/$releasever 1.2 M
 libfm-gtki686   0.1.15-5.D20110427gita1f63c3114.fc15
@koji-override-0/$releasever 331 k
 libgnome i686   2.32.1-2.fc15  @koji-override-0/$releasever 2.9 M
 libgnomeui   i686   2.24.5-2.fc15  @koji-override-0/$releasever 3.5 M
 libpurplei686   2.7.11-2.fc15  @koji-override-0/$releasever  27 M
 lxde-common  noarch 0.5.5-0.2.20110328git87c368d7.fc15
@koji-override-0/$releasever 919 k
 lxmusic  i686   0.4.4-4.fc15   @koji-override-0/$releasever 384 k
 pcmanfm  i686   0.9.9-5.D20110422git3f899d14eb.fc15
@koji-override-0/$releasever 665 k
 pidgin   i686   2.7.11-2.fc15  @koji-override-0/$releasever 2.9 M
 xmms2i686   0.7-8.fc15 @koji-override-0/$releasever 2.5 M

Transaction Summary
===
Remove   17 Package(s)

Installed size: 54 M
Is this ok [y/N]: n

Why ?
May I add that avahi is a brain child of the same dev Lennart Poettering.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Avahi_(software)

JB


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Re: How do I point a mail client at Microsoft outlook?

[Frank Cox]

On Wed, 15 Jun 2011 17:16:58 -0500 (CDT)
Michael Hennebry wrote:

> For work, I have had to use Microsoft outlook for e-mail.
> I'd like to be able to get at it through either
> KMail or evolution on my home F13 machine.
> I've tried to set up both without success.
> That I've never used a mail client before probably doesn't help.

Microsoft Outlook IS a mail client.

If you want to receive mail from a mail server (such as sendmail, postfix or,
in the Microsoft world, Microsoft Exchange) then you can use Microsoft Outlook
or any of a huge number of mail clients on Linux such as Kmail, Evolution, or
my personal favourite, Sylpheed, to pick up mail from the mail server.

If you want to transfer existing email from your Microsoft Outlook datafiles to
a different mail client that isn't Microsoft Outlook, that's a different
question.  It's my current understanding that you can use Thunderbird on
Windows to import a pst file and then import from that into Evolution or,
possibly, Sylpheed.

If you want to be able to use both Microsoft Outlook and a Linux mail client in
tandem, i.e. check and respond to your email from both systems, then you will
require a mail server that supports the imap protocol.  Depending on who
provides your email service (your isp, usually) this capability may or may not
be provided.

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Re: How do I point a mail client at Microsoft outlook?

[Joe Zeff]

On 06/15/2011 03:16 PM, Michael Hennebry wrote:
> With KMail I'm stuck when I get to
> Server Innformation
> Incoming server:
> Outgoing server:
> Use local delivery
>

There was a time when I could easily have talked you through finding the 
information in Outlook, but I happily recycled those neurons years ago. 
  Talk to the helpdesk at work, tell them what you need and they'll give 
you everything you need.  HTH, HAND.
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Re: A clarification of Fedora philosophy.

[Joe Zeff]

On 06/15/2011 03:02 PM, Alexander Volovics wrote:
> You are not missing anything, gnome 3 is missing a lot of things!
> Certainly proper configuration tools. And proper documentation to
> explain the 'inner workings'.

I don't want to start Yet Another Flame War, but does anybody know how 
or why such seemingly-obvious tools were left out?  Was it just a case 
of "so many programs, so little time?"
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How do I point a mail client at Microsoft outlook?

[Michael Hennebry]

For work, I have had to use Microsoft outlook for e-mail.
I'd like to be able to get at it through either
KMail or evolution on my home F13 machine.
I've tried to set up both without success.
That I've never used a mail client before probably doesn't help.

With KMail I'm stuck when I get to
Server Innformation
Incoming server:
Outgoing server:
Use local delivery

With evolution, I'm stuck when I get to the "Receiving Email" page.
For server, I'm completely stuck.
Which username?
My name on my box or the username part of my e-mail address?

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"Pessimist: The glass is half empty.
Optimist:   The glass is half full.
Engineer:   The glass is twice as big as it needs to be."
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Re: systemd discussion

[Tom Horsley]

On Wed, 15 Jun 2011 19:39:38 + (UTC)
JB wrote:

> There are people on test and user lists who are afraid to even touch F15 ...
> and the reasons are systemd, GNOME 3, etc. Things called "progress" ...

I rather like systemd, not because I feel like I'll ever be able to
understand it ("mind numbing complexity" is a phrase that comes to
mind :-), but because it really and truly does indeed boot the system
much much faster. Not small percentage benchmark faster, but big
human perceptible speed increases.

Of course, at the moment, some of that speed may be because it
isn't actually doing everything (like getting NFS filesystems mounted).
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Re: Possible to turn off NetworkManager?

[Tom Horsley]

On Wed, 15 Jun 2011 14:59:45 -0600
Stuart McGraw wrote:

> org.freedesktop.NetworkManager.service failed to load

That means it is off, but people are gonna complain about it
now. It is still off though. My system runs fine with those
warnings (I haven't yet tried to try down who the heck is
asking for NM so I could maybe turn them off as well :-).
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Re: A clarification of Fedora philosophy.

[Tom Horsley]

On Wed, 15 Jun 2011 16:37:24 -0500
Aaron Konstam wrote:

> Only a very minimal set of keys can be displayed to be manipulated in
> dconf-editor. The ones that gconf-editor shows that actually control
> things like mice and windows focus I can not find in dconf-editor.

Yea, things definitely appear to be in a very mixed state at the
moment. Some settings seem to come from dconf and some from
gconf, and what comes from where is anyone's guess.

Also dconf-editor seems really braindead compared to gconf-editor.
For one thing, at least gconf-editor has a search function. You
have to manually grep the schema files to find settings for
dconf that are buried in strange places.
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Re: systemd discussion

[JB]

Clyde E. Kunkel  cox.net> writes:

> ...
> All this said, I am beginning to believe Fedora is more and more an
> experiment in social engineering.
> ...

That's a well-chosen remark :-)
"Social engineering is the art of manipulating people into performing
actions...".

I think it also applies to open source domain activities.
I have had an impression over the years that users, but also ad hoc developers,
are used very instrumentally ("guinea pigs" ?) as users, testers, and devs, in
the process of furthering goals of open source projects or companies.

I see a dichotomy between e.g. open source companies' interests and those of
larger community, be it other open source organizations or even a mass of
individuals.

I am also surprised (have been for long time) by seeing Linux projects violating
UNIX principles of software development.
In this particular context, I am disappointed that they, apparently, lack
oversight by management, starting with the design phase.

Thanks god there are still those old timers all over the places, who are 
vigilant
and capable of spotting brewing trouble, unfortunately almost after the fact.

JB


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Re: A clarification of Fedora philosophy.

[Alexander Volovics]

On Wed, Jun 15, 2011 at 04:37:24PM -0500, Aaron Konstam wrote:
 
> Now I am really confused. Both gconf-editor and dconf-editor come up
> with the alias Configuration Editor, so I assume only one of them can
> show up in the menu of applications. dconf-editor does not show up even
> if gconf is not installed.. gsettings wants schema to be named.
> gconf-editor has schema displayed . dconf-editor does not.
 
> In gconf-editor Under desktop->gnome there are 13 items for
> configuration. In dconf-editor in the same place there are only two
> which are limited in the parameters one can set. 
 
> Only a very minimal set of keys can be displayed to be manipulated in
> dconf-editor. The ones that gconf-editor shows that actually control
> things like mice and windows focus I can not find in dconf-editor.
 
> What am I missing?

You are not missing anything, gnome 3 is missing a lot of things!
Certainly proper configuration tools. And proper documentation to
explain the 'inner workings'. 

Have a look at:
http://blog.fpmurphy.com/2011/03/customizing-the-gnome-3-shell.html

It contains some information on using gsettings to change settings.
Maybe it will be of use to you.

Alexander




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Re: A clarification of Fedora philosophy.

[Aaron Konstam]

On Wed, 2011-06-15 at 20:03 +0530, Rahul Sundaram wrote:
> On 06/15/2011 05:14 PM, Aaron Konstam wrote:
> > But first don't you mean gconf-editor rather than dconf-editor? The
> > latter when installed does not show up in the menus of Gnome3 and seems
> > to me rather obscure to use. At least I can't figure out how to use it.
> 
> dconf / gsettings is the replacement for gconf in GNOME 3.  So I do mean
> dconf-editor
> 
Now I am really confused. Both gconf-editor and dconf-editor come up
with the alias Configuration Editor, so I assume only one of them can
show up in the menu of applications. dconf-editor does not show up even
if gconf is not installed.. gsettings wants schema to be named.
gconf-editor has schema displayed . dconf-editor does not.

In gconf-editor Under desktop->gnome there are 13 items for
configuration. In dconf-editor in the same place there are only two
which are limited in the parameters one can set. 

Only a very minimal set of keys can be displayed to be manipulated in
dconf-editor. The ones that gconf-editor shows that actually control
things like mice and windows focus I can not find in dconf-editor.

What am I missing?
> > So if gnome-tweak-tool is useful (I first heard of it from your post)
> > why not include it in the distribution to make configuration of Gnome3
> > easier for the user?
> 
> Many useful tools are not installed by default for various reason. 
> Essentially what is in the default installation in the desktop,  is the
> decision of the desktop team members.  If you want to ask them,  post to
> the desktop mailing list in Fedora
> 
> Rahul
> 
I understand that the desktop team controls what is installed with the
desktop. I was hoping you had some clue you would share with me what is
the overall philosophy that decides inclusion. But I guess I will have
to ask them.

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Anouilh
===
Aaron Konstam telephone: (210) 656-0355 e-mail: akons...@sbcglobal.net

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Re: Possible to turn off NetworkManager?

[Sam Varshavchik]

Stuart McGraw writes:


In the past (fedora-8, fedora-11), I have always turned
off the NetworkManager service, leaving just the network
service running and configured by network (which are wired
and seldom change) by editing configuration files or using
a little network config tool (forgot what its executable
name was).

In Fedora 15 when I turn off NetworkManager service
(systemctl disable NetworkManager.service) and turn on
the network service and reboot, I get all sorts of dire
messages in syslog [*], and I have no network connectivity.


I have two machines running without NetworkManager, without any issues.

In addition to disabling NetworkManager, make sure that your network  
interfaces are not marked as being managed by NetworkManager!


I don't recall having to do anything drastic to disable it. On one machine,  
it's simply disabled. On the second machine, the NetworkManager rpm isn't  
even installed.





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Gnome3

[Vinny Onelli]

Hello,
I installed Fedora 15, now I am struggling with gnome3. Here is one
thing that I can't seam to find the way to solve, if I have 2 window
open one is full screen and the other is smaller, clicking to the full
screen pushes the smaller behind. how to reduce the size of the full
screen? 
I appreciate if some one can direct me to find the handle.
 It looks like I am going to have a lot of fun with gnome3.
Thank you Vinny. 

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Re: systemd discussion

[Clyde E. Kunkel]

On 06/15/2011 03:39 PM, JB wrote:
> Hi,
>
> there is a very interesting discussion on Fedora devel list:
>
> systemd: please stop trying to take over the world :)   Denys Vlasenko
> http://lists.fedoraproject.org/pipermail/devel/2011-June/152323.html
>
> The poster, Denys Vlasenko, showed an inquiring mind and justified it by 
> asking
> very relevant UNIX fundamental and technical questions, thus showing he is
> a very knowledgeable person.
>
> I share his concerns about systemd:
> - going beyond system init replacement
> - not adhering to UNIX principles (modularity, etc)
> - interference with sysadmin duties/decisions to set up the system (e.g.
>loading modules on its own and e.g. enabling sys capabilities and 
> protocols)
>
> To Denys:
> Drill, baby, drill :-)
>
> There are people on test and user lists who are afraid to even touch F15 ...
> and the reasons are systemd, GNOME 3, etc. Things called "progress" ...
>
> I follow the discussion with great interest and so should you all.
>
> JB
>
>

Both systemd and gnome 3 have caused me no end of trouble that I have 
had a lot of fun in managing to overcome (just like dracut did back 
when).  In doing so, I have learned a lot more about the kernel, boot 
processes, various startup processes, gnome and workflow.

Reminds of my card walloping days and the transition to computers.  Some 
made the transition to computer programming easily, some tried to wallop 
cards on computers and became frustrated and quit and some just quit 
without trying.

All this said, I am beginning to believe Fedora is more and more an 
experiment in social engineering.

I am having a lot of fun.

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Re: Yum and security

[Markku Kolkka]

15.6.2011 19:41, CS DBA kirjoitti:
> That said, we'll need to be able to manage updates in a very controlled 
> manner. Can anyone point me to any info, documentation, etc in the area 
> of managing security on RedHat / RPM based distro's, how to manage 
> security updates via yum, best practices for non yum based packages, etc ?

RHEL Security Guide:
http://docs.redhat.com/docs/en-US/Red_Hat_Enterprise_Linux/6/html/Security_Guide/index.html

NSA Guide to the Secure Configuration of Red Hat Enterprise Linux 5:
http://www.nsa.gov/ia/_files/os/redhat/rhel5-guide-i731.pdf

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Possible to turn off NetworkManager?

[Stuart McGraw]

In the past (fedora-8, fedora-11), I have always turned 
off the NetworkManager service, leaving just the network 
service running and configured by network (which are wired 
and seldom change) by editing configuration files or using 
a little network config tool (forgot what its executable 
name was).

In Fedora 15 when I turn off NetworkManager service 
(systemctl disable NetworkManager.service) and turn on 
the network service and reboot, I get all sorts of dire 
messages in syslog [*], and I have no network connectivity.

I would like to turn off services that don't offer any 
useful (to me, at least I think) functionality, like 
NetworkManager.  Is this still possible in Fedora-15/systemd?

[*] For example:
Jun 11 10:50:43 soga dbus-daemon: [system] Activation via systemd failed for 
unit 'dbus-org.freedesktop.NetworkManager.service': Unit 
dbus-org.freedesktop.NetworkManager.service failed to load: No such file or 
directory. See system logs and 'systemctl status' for details.
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Re: How to make gnome3 on F15 more convenient

[Stuart McGraw]

On 06/15/2011 08:57 AM, Steve Underwood wrote:
> On 06/15/2011 10:43 PM, Stuart McGraw wrote:
[...]
> I think you mean
> 
>  yum install gnome-shell-extensions-dock

Yes, thanks.
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Re: systemd, complex?

[Stuart McGraw]

On 06/15/2011 03:53 AM, Rahul Sundaram wrote:
> On 06/15/2011 02:34 PM, Ed Greshko wrote:
>> I must admit that I've not spent much time to digest what advantages
>> there are to moving to systemd.  However, it does seem to be quite a
>> complex system with, as of yet, hard to locate documentation.  I've also
>> not had to debug any start up failures...but wanted to learn more about
>> systemctl.
> 
> https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Systemd
> 
>> While it is only a blog entry between developers of systemd I did run
>> into this gem which, at first blush, makes me apprehensive.
>
> bochecha is not a systemd developer

'bochecha' was not the person who wrote the blog
response that Ed Greshko quoted, he was the person 
to whom the text was addressed.  The quoted response
was written by Lennart if that changes your assessment
of its credibility.  See the first comment in:

  http://0pointer.de/blog/projects/systemd-for-admins-1.html

Also, why does the source's developer status matter? 
Is there something wrong about the information (which
I repeat below)?  If so, what?  I also am interested 
in answers to the questions Ed Greshko asked.


bochecha: well, there are many reasons why a service might show up as
failed to load in the systemctl output: for example, it was referenced
as required dependency of another service, but we couldn't find neither
a native service definition file nor a SysV init script for it. Or,
there was a parsing failure while reading it. Or, because the file was
incomplete. And that might even happen while a service is active, for
example, because the user requested a configuration file reload from
systemd after changing a service file, and a service that is already 
running suddenly has an invalid configuration file. That effectively
means that the LOAD and the ACTIVE state are mostly orthogonal: you may
have a running service where configuration loaded fine, you may have a
stopped service where it loaded fine, but you may also have a running
service where configuration failed to load.

And yes, ACTIVE and SUB show you the same information, though ACTIVE in
a more generalized form. While SUB has states that are specific to each
unit type (e.g. "running", "exited", "dead" for services; "plugged" and
"dead" for devices; or "mounted" and "dead" for mount points), ACTIVE
exposes the same high-level states for all units.

We only distinguish 6 ACTIVE states (to list them: active, reloading,
inactive, maintenance, activating, deactivating), which are mapped from
the lower-level states, which might be many more. For example services
have 15 low-level states: dead, start-pre, start, start-post, running,
exited, reload, stop, stop-sigterm, stop-sigkill, stop-post,
final-sigterm, final-sigkill, maintenance, auto-restart.

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Re: Sound problem: more channels == worse quality

[grim76]

On 06/15/2011 03:23 PM, Richard Shaw wrote:
> While diagnosing my sound issues which I at first attributed to my new
> Creative T6100 speakers (yeah, they're pretty low end for surround
> systems), I found that the sound quality was still poor when I plugged
> in my headphones to the front audio port.
> 
> Of course after that I started blaming the sound chip (Built in) but
> now I'm not so sure. I found that the more channels I setup in
> PulseAudio the worse the sound quality.
> 
> With 2 channels the sound problem I'm having disappears, just normal
> hiss at high volume (amplification). When I up to the 4 channels I can
> hear the problem but it's pretty faint and at 6 channels it's very
> evident.
> 
> The sound itself is a high pitch electronic distortion. There's
> probably a technical name for it but I'm not an audio engineer. The
> best way I can describe it is that it sounds similar to distortion you
> get from very low bitrate audio streams.
> 
> So my question is: Is the problem my sound chip (hardware) or
> PulseAudio (software)?
> 
> My plan is to buy an Asus Xonar DG[1] but I don't have a lot of
> disposable income to spend on this problem so I want to be fairly
> certain this will fix it.
> 
> Thanks,
> Richard
> 
> [1] 
> http://www.buy.com/prod/asus-xonar-dg-sound-board-cmi8786-pci-24-bit-internal/q/loc/101/217036858.html

I would not do anything until you remove other interference causing
items.  I would start with any wall warts that you might have plugged in
or anything like that.  I have seen those cause all types of issues when
they are going bad and plugged in near a PC.
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Re: [389-users] saslauthd won't work

[Anthony Messina]

On 06/15/2011 08:02 AM, Gioachino Bartolotta wrote:
> ldapsearch -d 1 -D "cn=Directory Manager" -h dirsrv01.dominio -w
> secret -ZZ  '(uid=u01209)'

If you are using the OpenLDAP ldapsearch, you might need to try:

ldapsearch -Y GSSAPI (then the rest of your search)



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8F89 5E72 8DF0 BCF0 10BE 9967 92DC 35DC B001 4A4E



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Re: Current preupgrade?

[BeartoothHOS]

On Mon, 13 Jun 2011 15:25:39 -0500, Ranjan Maitra wrote:
[]
> It appears, however, that you would like to use XFCE instead of G3. In
> that case, why not do a clear install from the F15 LiveCD XFCE spin?

I wrote a reply yesterday, which seems to have evaporated into 
cyberspace; but today's events have rendered it nugatory anyhow.

Preupgrade hit me with the old bad problem of boot space. Rather 
than slog through that yet again, I did a fresh install (from an F15 
DVD). This was onto a refurbished IBM Thinkpad T42. It completed, called 
for a reboot, and took me through the firstboot routine.   

When I first tried to log into Gnome3, I got an error message 
which I failed to write down, expecting to see it many more times. (I 
didn't.) It seemed to be telling me the T42 was not machine enough to run 
F15.

When I logged out and back in, though, all seemed to work -- for 
a while. But when I let the machine alone for half an hour or so, it 
filled the screen with cryptic messages and froze. The same happened a 
couple more times with Gnome, and then also a couple of times with Xfce.

Unless someone knows better, I conclude that the T42 really isn't 
machine enough for F15. (It had been running F14 quite happily.) 

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I have precious (very precious!) little idea where up is.


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systemd discussion

[JB]

Hi,

there is a very interesting discussion on Fedora devel list:

systemd: please stop trying to take over the world :)   Denys Vlasenko 
http://lists.fedoraproject.org/pipermail/devel/2011-June/152323.html

The poster, Denys Vlasenko, showed an inquiring mind and justified it by asking
very relevant UNIX fundamental and technical questions, thus showing he is
a very knowledgeable person.

I share his concerns about systemd:
- going beyond system init replacement 
- not adhering to UNIX principles (modularity, etc)
- interference with sysadmin duties/decisions to set up the system (e.g.
  loading modules on its own and e.g. enabling sys capabilities and protocols)

To Denys:
Drill, baby, drill :-)
 
There are people on test and user lists who are afraid to even touch F15 ...
and the reasons are systemd, GNOME 3, etc. Things called "progress" ...

I follow the discussion with great interest and so should you all.

JB


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Re: Saving Youtube Videos in Fedora

[Zoltan Hoppar]

Hi,

If someone builds this simple gtk app:
http://trizen.googlecode.com/files/gtk-youtube-viewer

Then many problems will be solved...

Z

2011/6/15 Patrick O'Callaghan :
> On Wed, 2011-06-15 at 13:37 +0900, nomnex wrote:
>> On Wed, 15 Jun 2011 00:26:57 -0400
>> james tate  wrote:
>>
>> > Where are they being temp. downloaded to in Fedora now ?
>>
>> What version? it is still there in F13 LXDE. Do you know this script:
>> http://rg3.github.com/youtube-dl/
>
> Note that youtube-dl is in the Fedora repo:
>
> # yum install youtube-dl
>
> poc
>
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Sound problem: more channels == worse quality

[Richard Shaw]

While diagnosing my sound issues which I at first attributed to my new
Creative T6100 speakers (yeah, they're pretty low end for surround
systems), I found that the sound quality was still poor when I plugged
in my headphones to the front audio port.

Of course after that I started blaming the sound chip (Built in) but
now I'm not so sure. I found that the more channels I setup in
PulseAudio the worse the sound quality.

With 2 channels the sound problem I'm having disappears, just normal
hiss at high volume (amplification). When I up to the 4 channels I can
hear the problem but it's pretty faint and at 6 channels it's very
evident.

The sound itself is a high pitch electronic distortion. There's
probably a technical name for it but I'm not an audio engineer. The
best way I can describe it is that it sounds similar to distortion you
get from very low bitrate audio streams.

So my question is: Is the problem my sound chip (hardware) or
PulseAudio (software)?

My plan is to buy an Asus Xonar DG[1] but I don't have a lot of
disposable income to spend on this problem so I want to be fairly
certain this will fix it.

Thanks,
Richard

[1] 
http://www.buy.com/prod/asus-xonar-dg-sound-board-cmi8786-pci-24-bit-internal/q/loc/101/217036858.html
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Re: Special Characters

[Patrick O'Callaghan]

On Wed, 2011-06-15 at 11:19 -0600, Petrus de Calguarium wrote:
> Roelof 'Ben' Kusters wrote:
> 
> > I'm using the US English keyboard, and am so used to that, I don't want to
> > change the layout.
> 
> I type a lot in German and French and I also use the US 104-key generic 
> layout. 
> In systemsettings/input devices/keyboard/layouts, you can select US-
> international with dead keys (sometimes called acentos).
> 
> This works great! You have exactly the same keys as are shown on the 
> keyboard, 
> with the added enhancement that diacritical marks actually work the way they 
> are supposed to, ie., they wait until you type a letter after typing them 
> before displaying the accented character on the screen. If you want to type 
> the 
> diacritical mark by itself, which occurs mostly with the apostrophe or the 
> quotation mark, you type alt-diacritical mark.

Or diacritical+space, which works all the time. I speak as one with an
apostrophe in my name :-)

> There is no relearning involved. 
> It all works naturally and the way it is supposed to.

+1

IMHO this is the only reasonable way to do accented characters. The
"compose-key" combos are hopeless for people who actually use accents
continually, as I do in Spanish. The other option (using a special
language keyboard) can be even worse. Imagine a keyboard with no visible
@, |, {, #, \ etc. Monolingual programmers need to aware that accents
aren't an optional extra but something that if you need them you need
them all the time and in every context (outside actual programming for
the most part). 

poc

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Re: kindly send your suggestion for the Event of Linux at Guru Nanak Dev University, Amritsar

[Joe Zeff]

On 06/15/2011 10:54 AM, Navdeep Singh Sidhu wrote:
> If anybody want to help us with their ideas , they can share their
> precious ideas with us and suggest us for this event. We are very
> thankful to you for your help & support.

I like to show friends who've never seen Linux in action the Desktop 
Cube, especially as I have Compiz set to show the open windows floating 
above the cube instead of resting on the surface.  And, I always have 
one window extending from one desktop to another, both to show how that 
works and to show it folded when I activate the Cube.  Everybody I've 
shown it to was Very Impressed, even a friend who's a compulsive Windows 
fanboi.  I also explain that this is Linux only and will probably never 
be ported to Windows because nobody who's capable of doing it is the 
slightest bit interested.  It's a great, highly-visible way of showing 
people just what Linux is capable of in a way that's much more 
impressive than showing them programs that look (almost) the same as 
their Windows equivalents.  (People aren't going to consider changing if 
all they're going to get is the same functionality they already have; 
you have to offer them something they can't get any other way.)

I don't know if you're old enough to remember the old Amiga bouncing 
ball demo.  Like the Cube, it was eye-candy and nothing else, but it was 
also something that the PCs of the time couldn't match, and that's all 
that mattered.  Getting people interested in trying Linux isn't a matter 
of persuading them by logic, you have to capture their imaginations.

As a last thought, you can also explain that these computers are hooked 
up to the Internet without any anti-virus, anti-malware or anti-adware 
programs installed because they don't need them and that you'll probably 
never need to defrag because Linux doesn't get fragmented like Windows does.
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Re: fedora 12 and no GUI

[Kam Leo]

On Wed, Jun 15, 2011 at 9:01 AM, gary clark  wrote:
> The problem was lack of RAM I only has 256 increased to 1G and all is good.

Many old boxes have been / are / will be headed to the scrape pile
because of memory limitations. You are lucky that you can add memory.

Good luck with F12 but don't expect any updates, It's time to move on
to the a more recent release!
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kindly send your suggestion for the Event of Linux at Guru Nanak Dev University, Amritsar

[Navdeep Singh Sidhu]

Hello Frnds,

I am a student of B.tech C.S.E.(Guru Nanak Dev University).We have a plan to
organize an Mega Event of Linux at our Campus. When we share our idea among
peoples & students. We got a good response. We also get help & support from
various experts of Linux.We have the plan to hold this event in the last
week of August 2011. If anybody want to help us with their ideas , they can
share their precious ideas with us and suggest us for this event. We are
very thankful to you for your help & support.

Regards
Navdeep Singh
Core Member
Technical Students Society's Panel ,
Founder & Co-ordinator,
The Linux Research Group ,
Guru Nanak Dev University, Amritsar
India
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Re: Adieu, Fedora

[Antonio Olivares]

> we have a Windows-free home!
> -- 

So you can't look outside because you have no "Windows" :(
You could at least use curtains, shutters, or tint them to protect from the hot 
sun if your house would not be "windows-free":)  

Could not resist! :(

:) :) :)

Regards,

Antonio 
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Re: Saving Youtube Videos in Fedora

[Petrus de Calguarium]

Actually, I modified it a bit more, as I couldn't quite get it to do the whole 
download, so I put this in my .bashrc

function fid () { echo $( ps -fu peter | egrep 'libflashplayer\.so' | egrep 
'npviewer.bin' | egrep -om 1 -E '\<[0-9]+\>' | head -1 ) ; }

All I do is type fid to get the flash id and then I go to /proc//fd and copy the deleted files.

As I had said, it was the interaction with nspluginwrapper that caused your 
initial script to fail for me, and I had to make these crude adjustments.


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Re: Saving Youtube Videos in Fedora

[Petrus de Calguarium]

Suvayu Ali wrote:

> On Wed, 15 Jun 2011 00:26:57 -0400
> james tate  wrote:
> 
>> At one time Youtube videos were being temp. downloaded while playing
>> to the /tmp directory where you could save from, but now it seems
>> that is no longer the case.
>> 
>> Where are they being temp. downloaded to in Fedora now ?
> 
> Two solutions:
> 
> 1. # yum install youtube-dl
> 2. I use this shell function sometimes: (beware of word wrapping)
> 
> function play_flash()
> {
> for idx in $(pgrep -u $USER -f 'flashplayer\.so'); do
> echo "Browser:" $(egrep 'Name:' /proc/${idx}/status| cut -f 2) "PID:" $idx
> echo -n "FDs:"
> for fd in $(lsof -p $idx|egrep '/tmp/Flash'|egrep -o -E '\<[0-9]+[a-z]\>'|
> tr -d 'a-z'); do
> echo -n "  $fd"
> done
> echo
> echo
> done
> 
> echo "Select browser (by PID) and file descriptor (space separated)"
> read -p ': ' PID FD
> echo
> [ ! -z ${PID} ] &&  mplayer -ontop $@ /proc/${PID}/fd/${FD}
> }
> 
> GL
> 

I have been using your old version for months now, since we last conversed on 
this subject, and it is the best!!!

I had a little problem, however, as I use flash with nspluginwrapper, so 
grepping on libflashplayer.so didn't quite work.

I had to kind of dissect your code, as I don't know how to write such a 
complex script, and this is what I use at present...

*

To save flash videos currently displayed in Firefox, get the pid of the flash 
plugin (and nspluginwrapper, if being used) and the file descriptors for the 
flash files.

Without nspluginwraper:

ps -fu yourlogin | egrep 'libflashplayer\.so'

With nspluginwrapper:

ps -fu yourlogin | egrep 'libflashplayer\.so' | egrep 'npviewer.bin'

Navigate to:

/proc//fd

Copy the deleted /tmp/Flash* files:

cp  ~/Documents/tmp/


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Re: Adieu, Fedora

[Tim]

Tim:
>> The last time I tried to do this with a DOS/FAT formatted drive, I
>> had to figure out how to assign a drive letter to the drive, before I
>> could use the DOS commands to apply a drive label (because those
>> commands could only make use of DOS drive letters, rather than Linux
>> device names).

Bryn M. Reeves:
> Huh?!?

This is going back a long way, but as I recall it was the "mlabel"
command that allowed you to add a volume name to a FAT drive.  But you
couldn't just do something like:   mlabel /dev/sdb2 crapos

First you had to use one command to associate /dev/sdb2 with a
psuedo-drive letter e: (for example's sake), then you'd use the mlabel
command with that psuedo drive letter, and your desired volume name.

Intuitive it wasn't, and a real pain the neck to have to do.
Particularly if you needed to customise several things.

-- 
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2.6.27.25-78.2.56.fc9.i686

Don't send private replies to my address, the mailbox is ignored.  I
read messages from the public lists.



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Re: A-link na1gu usb-ethernet adapter

[Itamar Reis Peixoto]

On Wed, Jun 15, 2011 at 8:25 AM, jarmo  wrote:
> Anyone got this working in FC ? When I connect adapter, it is
> regonized as asix. With dhcp it gets ipnumber ok, but that's it.
> No traffic after that. This test with Acer Aspire 1410, which own
> ether card is broken. Lspci only find that very exotic wireless, but
> cant find any driver for it in basic fedora installation. So no way to
> update installation.
> Have tried it also in my desktop, where installed FC 15 with all
> updates, working just same way. Looked driver and found from
> manufacturer driver for 2.6.38 kernel. But, FC 15 is using it. Is the
> driver different in FC 15, than manufacturers one?
>
> I saw, when googled, that someone has done something to driver for
> kernel 2.6.39.1 and upwards. I try compile that kernel, but any sure
> knowledge, does it work?
>
> Jarmo
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download a new kernel from koji.fedoraproject.org and try it.

install the kernel with rpm -ivh kernel


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+55 11 4063 5033 (FIXO SP)
+55 34 9158 9329 (TIM)
+55 34 8806 3989 (OI)
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Re: [389-users] sshd/pam_ldap not honoring passwordMustChange

[Aaron Hagopian]

I have not seen or used the passwordMustChange attribute before but I can
tell you that if you set the passwordExpirationTime as following:

passwordExpirationTime: 1970010100Z


It should force the user to change their password on their next login.  Keep
in mind you will not get a prompt if use use a passwordless ssh login via
rsa key exchange.

Hope that helps.

Thanks,
Aaron


On Tue, Jun 14, 2011 at 5:03 PM, David Barr  wrote:

> I know this is outside the scope of the 389 list, but my Google-fu is
> failing me on this one.
>
> If I change the password to the account on the LDAP server and verify
> "passwordmustchange: on," I can ssh in to the test host with the new
> password all day long, and never get asked to change it.
>
> I'm hoping someone has seen a document recently that they could link to.
> I've seen the "PAM Configuration for LDAP Client Systems" page on the
> wiki. That deals more with setting password expiration, though.
>
> Thanks!
> David
>
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> dafydd - Onlinehttp://pgp.mit.edu/
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>
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Re: Special Characters

[Petrus de Calguarium]

Roelof 'Ben' Kusters wrote:

> I'm using the US English keyboard, and am so used to that, I don't want to
> change the layout.

I type a lot in German and French and I also use the US 104-key generic layout. 
In systemsettings/input devices/keyboard/layouts, you can select US-
international with dead keys (sometimes called acentos).

This works great! You have exactly the same keys as are shown on the keyboard, 
with the added enhancement that diacritical marks actually work the way they 
are supposed to, ie., they wait until you type a letter after typing them 
before displaying the accented character on the screen. If you want to type the 
diacritical mark by itself, which occurs mostly with the apostrophe or the 
quotation mark, you type alt-diacritical mark. There is no relearning involved. 
It all works naturally and the way it is supposed to.

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Re: Adieu, Fedora

[Jon Ingason]

2011-06-15 05:57, James McKenzie skrev:
> On 6/14/11 10:20 AM, Jon Ingason wrote:
>> 2011-06-13 04:26, James McKenzie skrev:
>> And before MacOX, there was Lisa and before Lisa was Star ;-)
>>
>> But that was lng ago!
>>
> Lisa bombed, it was the first major failure for Apple.  Never heard of
> Star (and if it was anything like Lisa, I don't want to.)

Star came from Xerox PARC 1981.
See URL: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Xerox_Star
An before Star came Alto 1973.
See URL: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Xerox_Alto
>
> James McKenzie
>
>


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Re: Special Characters

[Sjoerd Mullender]

On 2011-06-15 17:21, Tim wrote:
> On Wed, 2011-06-15 at 20:01 +0700, Roelof 'Ben' Kusters wrote:
>> Ideally I would like to get the combination ctrl+'+e to make é, and  
>> ctrl+shift+;+i to make ï (or ctrl+:+i to make ï). Anyone any thoughts?
> 
> One way that used to be done, was by setting up a "compose" key in the
> keyboard preferences.  Then, to make special characters, you'd type your
> compose key, then type the other characters that looked like the
> character that you wanted to create.  ("Type" as in type one key after
> another, not hold all the keys down at the same time.)
> 
> e.g. compose a e would produce æ
>  compose a ` would produce à
>  compose a ' would produce á
>  compose a " would produce ä
> 
> You could do most of the obvious characters that way, though a few
> always elude me.  Like how to type the degrees symbol.

compose o o

See http://www.hermit.org/Linux/ComposeKeys.html for a big list.

> I don't know if it's still done that way, I'm not using the latest
> release of Fedora.
> 


-- 
Sjoerd Mullender



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Re: Adieu, Fedora

[Bryn M. Reeves]

On 06/15/2011 04:14 PM, Tim wrote:
> Things have probably improved since I last tried (still on Fedora 9,
> here).  But my point was with a GUIfied system, one that's being touted
> as the bees knees, and doesn't require geek/guru status to use,
> everything should be do-able through the GUI, and the GUI should be
> self-documenting.  If one has to resort to the command line, or even
> additional instructions, then the GUI design has failed.

I see you snipped out all the text where I described how I figured out how todo
this using only the GUI in a couple of minutes on f15. Smooth.

Please give it a try once you have updated to a release that has been supported
some time in recent history. I hope that it will be to your liking.

> The last time I tried to do this with a DOS/FAT formatted drive, I had
> to figure out how to assign a drive letter to the drive, before I could
> use the DOS commands to apply a drive label (because those commands
> could only make use of DOS drive letters, rather than Linux device
> names).

Huh?!?

> I miss the way this was handled back on my Amiga.  In the root of a disc
> partition (or whole disk), was placed a disc.info file.  Not only did it
> hold various bits of info about the disc (the same as file .info files
> did for their associated files or directories), it could also hold the
> icon image.  Giving any disc a custom icon was simply a matter of
> putting a file into its root directory.

Yeah I miss my Amigas too but the fact is that Commodore's leadership ensured
that the platform was going to die out a long, long time ago. These days I have
much more fun with my Linux boxes.

Regards,
Bryn.


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Re: [389-users] saslauthd won't work

[Rich Megginson]

On 06/15/2011 09:45 AM, Gioachino Bartolotta wrote:
> Hi,
>
> no, I don't wanna use saslauthd with kerberos, but just authenticate
> users against ldap using tls or ssl ...
> Tried to configure samba using ldaps --- and it didn't work.
>
> smbd[10001]:   Failed to issue the StartTLS instruction: Operations error
>
> Any Idea??
>
> Thank you!
>
> 2011/6/15 Rich Megginson:
>> On 06/15/2011 07:02 AM, Gioachino Bartolotta wrote:
>>> Hi!
>>>
>>> Just a little problem about saslauthd with 389.
>>> When I try to execute:
>>>
>>> ldapsearch -d 1 -D "cn=Directory Manager" -h dirsrv01.dominio -w
>>> secret -ZZ  '(uid=u01209)'
>>>
>>> it returns
>>>
>>> ldap_sasl_interactive_bind_s: server supports: EXTERNAL GSSAPI PLAIN
>>> LOGIN CRAM-MD5 ANONYMOUS DIGEST-MD5
>>> ldap_int_sasl_bind: EXTERNAL GSSAPI PLAIN LOGIN CRAM-MD5 ANONYMOUS
>>> DIGEST-MD5
>>> ldap_int_sasl_open: host=dirsrv01.dominio
>>> SASL/EXTERNAL authentication started
>>> ldap_perror
>>> ldap_sasl_interactive_bind_s: Unknown authentication method (-6)
>>>  additional info: SASL(-4): no mechanism available:
You did not specify the -x option - are you trying to use some form of 
SASL auth, or are you trying to use simple (i.e userDN/password) auth?  
If the latter, you have to specify the -x option.
>>>
>>> I configured /etc/sysconfig/saslauthd in this way
>>> -
>>> # Directory in which to place saslauthd's listening socket, pid file, and
>>> so
>>> # on.  This directory must already exist.
>>> SOCKETDIR=/var/run/saslauthd
>>>
>>> # Mechanism to use when checking passwords.  Run "saslauthd -v" to get a
>>> list
>>> # of which mechanism your installation was compiled with the ablity to
>>> use.
>>> # MECH=pam
>>> MECH=ldap
>>> START=yes
>>> # Additional flags to pass to saslauthd on the command line.  See
>>> saslauthd(8)
>>> # for the list of accepted flags.
>>> FLAGS=
>>> ---
>>>
>>> What it's wrong??
>> I'm not sure.  What are you using saslauthd for?  Are you trying to allow
>> clients to use simple bind with their Kerberos passwords, rather than use
>> the password in the LDAP server?  If so, then you should use 389 with the
>> PAM Pass-Through Auth plugin, and setup pam_krb5.
>>> This is the configuration of /etc/openldap/ldap.conf
>>> --
>>> #SIZELIMIT  12
>>> #TIMELIMIT  15
>>> #DEREF  never
>>> URI ldap://dirsrv01.dominio/
>>> BASE dc=dominio
>>> TLS_CACERTDIR /etc/openldap/cacerts
>>> TLS_REQCERT allow
>>> ssl tls_start
>>> -
>>>
>>> Any Idea?
>>>
>>> Regards
>>
>
>

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Yum and security

[CS DBA]

Hi All;

We're having discussions within our company about standardizing on a 
Linux server OS so we can also standardize our methods & approaches to 
configuration, security, etc based on what type of server it is (web, 
database, etc).

That said, we'll need to be able to manage updates in a very controlled 
manner. Can anyone point me to any info, documentation, etc in the area 
of managing security on RedHat / RPM based distro's, how to manage 
security updates via yum, best practices for non yum based packages, etc ?


Thanks in advance


-- 
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Kevin Kempter   -   Constent State
A PostgreSQL Professional Services Company
   www.consistentstate.com
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Re: Adieu, Fedora

[Joe Zeff]

On 06/15/2011 05:49 AM, Tim wrote:
> Hmm, well, you really*need*  to be a geek to sustain Windows.  What with
> all the security flaws, and it continually shooting itself in the foot..

I follow an XP support group on Usenet, partially to see how the other 
half lives.  Recently, there was a post asking for help removing what 
might be (but probably wasn't) malware.  The poster was told to 
download, install and run four different removal programs, one after the 
other.  The responder ended by saying that this will remove almost anything.

Almost.  Four programs from four different companies and there are 
infections they can't cure.  I'm so happy that except for my sister's 
laptop (It runs XP for things she needs that just don't work right on 
her Ubuntu desktop.) we have a Windows-free home!
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Re: fedora 12 and no GUI

[gary clark]

The problem was lack of RAM I only has 256 increased to 1G and all is good.

--- On Tue, 6/14/11, gary clark  wrote:

> From: gary clark 
> Subject: Re: fedora 12 and no GUI
> To: "Community support for Fedora users" 
> Date: Tuesday, June 14, 2011, 5:11 PM
> Hi,
> 
> There is no gdm file or gdm-password file in this
> /etc/pam.d directory?
> 
> Thanks,
> Gary C
> 
> 
> --- On Tue, 6/14/11, Kam Leo 
> wrote:
> 
> > From: Kam Leo 
> > Subject: Re: fedora 12 and no GUI
> > To: "Community support for Fedora users" 
> > Date: Tuesday, June 14, 2011, 4:42 PM
> > On Tue, Jun 14, 2011 at 12:57 PM,
> > gary clark 
> > wrote:
> > > Hello,
> > >
> > > I was was Fedora 4 and then Fedora 9 and just
> jumped
> > to Fedora 12. When the machine boots up I have only
> text
> > based system to login as root. What happened to the
> GUI?
> > >
> > > Any answers would really help?
> > 
> > They disabled it for security reasons. Edit
> /etc/pam.d/gdm
> > and
> > /etc/pam.d/gdm-password to enable root gui-login.
> > 
> > Why not move up to F14 so your system will benefit
> from
> > security updates?
> > 
> > > Thanks,
> > > Gary C
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Re: Adieu, Fedora

[Bryn M. Reeves]

On 06/14/2011 11:34 PM, James McKenzie wrote:
> On Tue, Jun 14, 2011 at 3:01 PM, Marcus D. Leech  wrote:
>>> mount point and the desktop icon (on my F13/GNOME system).
>>> The problem continued to exist when I went to F14, and is still there
>>> now that I've switched to XFCE.  My main complaint isn't that it doesn't
>>> work, it's that the USB devs refused to even admit that their software
>>> wasn't reporting the label, even when presented with evidence directly
>>> contradicting their claim.  Yes, it's up to the DE to make use of the
>>> label but claiming that it's reported when it is not, isn't the best way
>>> to go, IMO.
>> There are four items that are inherent to a USB Flash drive, regardless
>> of what type of filesystem you've formatted it for:
>>
>> P:  Vendor=0781 ProdID=5406 Rev= 0.10
>> S:  Manufacturer=SanDisk
>> S:  Product=U3 Cruzer Micro
> On my XP installation this is EXACTLY what shows up when I plug in my
> USB drive.  No other labels but what the device is.
> 
> Some folks would love to see "Mikey's USB Thingie" but that is not
> what is written in hardware at the first glance and is only picked up
> if a device specific driver is loaded.

That's not the case on a modern Linux desktop for most file systems that allow
volume names/labels.

Interpreting labels is done in user space (needs no special device drivers) and
the use of that information is down to the desktop environment.

For e.g. if I set the volume name (label) of a vfat USB key with either
mkfs.vfat or the graphical gnome-disk-utility then Gnome3 in f15 mounts the key
using the volume namer as the mount point name (and displays in in
Computer/nautilus).

Regards,
Bryn.
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Re: Special Characters

[Tim]

On Wed, 2011-06-15 at 20:01 +0700, Roelof 'Ben' Kusters wrote:
> Ideally I would like to get the combination ctrl+'+e to make é, and  
> ctrl+shift+;+i to make ï (or ctrl+:+i to make ï). Anyone any thoughts?

One way that used to be done, was by setting up a "compose" key in the
keyboard preferences.  Then, to make special characters, you'd type your
compose key, then type the other characters that looked like the
character that you wanted to create.  ("Type" as in type one key after
another, not hold all the keys down at the same time.)

e.g. compose a e would produce æ
 compose a ` would produce à
 compose a ' would produce á
 compose a " would produce ä

You could do most of the obvious characters that way, though a few
always elude me.  Like how to type the degrees symbol.

I don't know if it's still done that way, I'm not using the latest
release of Fedora.

-- 
[tim@localhost ~]$ uname -r
2.6.27.25-78.2.56.fc9.i686

Don't send private replies to my address, the mailbox is ignored.  I
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Re: [389-users] About Kerberos and dirsrv

[Gioachino Bartolotta]

Well ...
I am new on 389ds ... but I'll give it a try ... also to freeipa :D

Regards

2011/6/15  :
> Why don't you use freeipa. This is exactly what freeipa is for.
> Sent on the TELUS Mobility network with BlackBerry
>
> -Original Message-
> From: Juan Carlos Camargo Carrillo 
> Sender: 389-users-boun...@lists.fedoraproject.org
> Date: Wed, 15 Jun 2011 13:44:09
> To: <389-us...@lists.fedoraproject.org>
> Reply-To: "General discussion list for the 389 Directory server project."
>        <389-us...@lists.fedoraproject.org>
> Subject: Re: [389-users] About Kerberos and dirsrv
>
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Re: Adieu, Fedora

[Tim]

Tim:
>> And how about giving the devices a label?  That's something that really
>> sucks on all the Linux desktops I've tried.

Bryn M. Reeves:
> Well, I'm an old fashioned terminal user and I don't mind reading the man page
> for mkfs.vfat to find out how to set the volume name of a file system (it's -n
> volume-name btw) but I see your point.

Things have probably improved since I last tried (still on Fedora 9,
here).  But my point was with a GUIfied system, one that's being touted
as the bees knees, and doesn't require geek/guru status to use,
everything should be do-able through the GUI, and the GUI should be
self-documenting.  If one has to resort to the command line, or even
additional instructions, then the GUI design has failed.

The last time I tried to do this with a DOS/FAT formatted drive, I had
to figure out how to assign a drive letter to the drive, before I could
use the DOS commands to apply a drive label (because those commands
could only make use of DOS drive letters, rather than Linux device
names).

>> Other OS's let you select a device and rename it through the GUI.  Don't
>> like it being called USBdisc?  Then rename it to musicdrive, the same
>> way as you'd rename any other file or folder (usually:  right-click,
>> rename).

> I agree it would be nice to have nautilus wired up to do this and it makes a 
> lot
> of sense but the only bug report that I could find upstream was this:
> 
>   https://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=413172
> 
> Which is asking for a way to change the displayed (icon) name without changing
> the volume name..

I miss the way this was handled back on my Amiga.  In the root of a disc
partition (or whole disk), was placed a disc.info file.  Not only did it
hold various bits of info about the disc (the same as file .info files
did for their associated files or directories), it could also hold the
icon image.  Giving any disc a custom icon was simply a matter of
putting a file into its root directory.

-- 
[tim@localhost ~]$ uname -r
2.6.27.25-78.2.56.fc9.i686

Don't send private replies to my address, the mailbox is ignored.  I
read messages from the public lists.



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