Re: Question on DNS setup change not working.

[Jatin K]

On Saturday 03 September 2011 12:26 AM, Michael D. Setzer II wrote:
> Our MIS department just decided to not allow the use of the public
> IP addresses of system from local machines, so I made the
> additions to the hosts file with the private ip and the name.
> restart named and restarted squid, and squid picked up the
> change, and would bring up pages using the name. Unfortunately,
> dig and other options would still be using the public IP instead.
>
> Tried restarting the machine to see if something might not have
> been changed, but it remains the same.
>
> In the past, I had done this same thing for local services I have.
> redhatgcc.dyndns.org has a public ip of 202.128.73.24, but on the
> inside it has the private ip of 192.168.50.41. So, the hosts file has
> the link between the 192.168.50.41 and the
> redhatgcc.dyndns.org,  and it reports that.

You need to setup a DNS server or add a new zone to existing DNS server 
for local network.
BTW /etc/hosts is not part of DNS , thats why you cannot see the effects 
during dig  command

Warm Regards

-- 
   °v°
  /(_)\
   ^ ^  Jatin Khatri
RHCSA,RHCE,CCNA
Registerd Linux user No #501175
www.counter.li.org
No M$

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Re: Question on DNS setup change not working.

[Michael D. Setzer II]

On 3 Sep 2011 at 7:47, Cameron Simpson wrote:

Date sent:  Sat, 3 Sep 2011 07:47:02 +1000
From:   Cameron Simpson 
To: Community support for Fedora users 

Subject:Re: Question on DNS setup change not working.
Send reply to:  Community support for Fedora users 




> On 03Sep2011 04:56, Michael D. Setzer II  wrote:
> | Our MIS department just decided to not allow the use of the public 
> | IP addresses of system from local machines, so I made the 
> | additions to the hosts file with the private ip and the name.
> | restart named and restarted squid, and squid picked up the 
> | change, and would bring up pages using the name. Unfortunately, 
> | dig and other options would still be using the public IP instead.
> | 
> | Tried restarting the machine to see if something might not have 
> | been changed, but it remains the same.
> 
> /etc/hosts is not part of DNS. It is part of the name lookup procedure
> used by gethostbyname(). So: squid is affected by /etc/hosts, but dig
> and named are NOT, and will not be: they are specificly DNS tools.
> 
> My recommendation is to add a special .local zone to your named with
> names host1.local etc with the private addresses. Then add local to the
> _front_ of the search path in /etc/resolv.conf:
> 
>   search local your.normal.domain.here
> 
> Then using the short names should work.
> 

Thanks for the information. At the moment, the system is just 
running a caching nameserver, so will have to look at the process 
to setup the dns. I was under the impression that the resolv.conf 
with hosts bind was also for dns.

> Cheers,
> -- 
> Cameron Simpson  DoD#743
> http://www.cskk.ezoshosting.com/cs/
> 
> "He deserves death!"
> "Deserves it!  I daresay he does.  And many die that deserve life.  Is it in
>  your power to give it to them?  Then do not be so quick to deal out death in
>  judgement, for even the very wise may not see all ends."
> - Gandalf, _The Lord of the Rings_
> -- 
> users mailing list
> users@lists.fedoraproject.org
> To unsubscribe or change subscription options:
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+--+
  Michael D. Setzer II -  Computer Science Instructor  
  Guam Community College  Computer Center  
  mailto:mi...@kuentos.guam.net
  mailto:msetze...@gmail.com
  http://www.guam.net/home/mikes
  Guam - Where America's Day Begins
  G4L Disk Imaging Project maintainer 
  http://sourceforge.net/projects/g4l/
+--+

http://setiathome.berkeley.edu (Original)
Number of Seti Units Returned:  19,471
Processing time:  32 years, 290 days, 12 hours, 58 minutes
(Total Hours: 287,489)

BOINC@HOME CREDITS
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ROSETTA  3563786.501816   |   ABC  7853564.918328

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Re: Fedora 15 is a lot like Windows OS's.. irritating, offensive, difficult to use with ease, nauseating to try...

[Kanwar Ranbir Sandhu]

On Fri, 2011-09-02 at 13:43 +0200, Łukasz Jagiełło wrote:
> Don't forget about people like me who really likes new gnome3. You
> want change distribution only cause you doesn't like new gnome3. Did
> you write all your problems at F-15 alpha stage or earlier stage when
> everything was possible to do ? Guess not, but now you want to back
> some support only cause you doesn't like it. Of course there are many
> people who wrote here how they doesn't like gnome3, but did you think
> when people who like something doesn't special write about it.

I like it, too.  Yes, there are some rough edges.  In fact, there are
some things that don't make sense, at all.  But, overall I like it.  

I took a while to get used to it, and I had to change my desktop habits.
Now, I like it.  I wouldn't say I prefer it to Gnome 2, but I can
definitely live with Gnome 3.

Ranbir

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Re: Vote to extend F14 security updates

[Paul Allen Newell]

On 9/2/2011 2:13 PM, Michael Cronenworth wrote:
> Robert Arkiletian wrote:
>> In order to help the community stay with Fedora, could
>> security updates for F14 be provided until F17 is released?
> Fedora is not a democracy. It is a meritocracy.
>
> The only changes that get made to Fedora are by people that work to make
> the changes. Votes are not cast. Petitions are not honored. The elected
> individuals in Fedora are to keep the package maintainers in check with
> the existing policies. They do not govern the direction of upstream
> software.
>
> To put it bluntly, if this isn't obvious by now, this thread is pointless.
It is pointless only if the developers chose not to listen to what the 
user base is saying. There is no obligation on them to do what this or 
any thread suggests. But I would think they would want to know the 
reaction to the "direction of upstream software".
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Re: Disable "import photos" automagically running whenever I plug a pen drive

[Fernando Cassia]

On Fri, Sep 2, 2011 at 19:04, François Patte <
francois.pa...@mi.parisdescartes.fr> wrote:

>
> Previous tool was handy, that's why they have removed it...
>
> Be careful with gconf editor, in case of mistake you could waste a lot
> of time to recover...


Thanks Francois!

Very much appreciated.

I had several thousand pics on each pen drive and the app started to index
(or at least create thumbnails, or maybe only lists of files, who knows)
slowing access from my photo editor to the pen drive to a crawl.

I realize now that USB really sucks for simultaneous file I/O on the same
flash device... or at least with pen drives that surely have no optimization
like SSDs...

FC
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Re: Vote to extend F14 security updates

[Paul Allen Newell]

On 9/2/2011 6:29 AM, Rahul Sundaram wrote:
> On 09/02/2011 12:21 PM, Paul Allen Newell wrote:
>>
>> Hum ... I find it a difficult proposition to ask users "to step up and
>> do it" when the march of progress indicates that it wasn't the users
>> that asked for this change.
>
> That may well be the case and Fedora doesn't really have a choice in 
> that matter either however "voting" for it isn't really going to 
> bringe resources necessary to extend the updates cycle.  It still 
> requires a group of people to work together to do it.   Changes in 
> Fedora as is common with free and open source projects happen because 
> people volunteered and contributed their time and effort.I don't 
> personally have a need for extending the updates cycle but if there is 
> a team of people interested in that,  I would be happy to do my 
> part. I just don't see a whole lot of people interested in that 
> however.
>
> Rahul
Rahul:

First, I think this "voting" is not really a true "vote" as Fedora / 
Gnome hasn't put anything out there to vote on. To me, its more of a 
polling to catch sense of user base. Its just one of many threads that 
have expressed concern over Gnome3 in Fedora.

I completely understand and agree that it is a matter of resources and, 
in a volunteer situation, there needs to be a critical mass of 
volunteers who wish to do it rather than something else. The real 
question in your answer is obvious enough that I need to answer it. I 
haven't volunteered as I am not qualified to be able to make a positive 
contribution (I am certain I could break alot of stuff and nobody wants 
that).

So long as all of these threads about Gnome3 and Fedora 15 are catching 
the ears/eyes of the developers, I am crossing my fingers that F16 will 
address issues the user base is expressing so that the Linus-blanket of 
continued support for F14 will be a moot point.

Thanks,
Paul
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Re: Vote to extend F14 security updates

[Paul Allen Newell]

On 9/2/2011 6:06 AM, Mike Wohlgemuth wrote:
> On 09/02/2011 02:51 AM, Paul Allen Newell wrote:
>> Hum ... I find it a difficult proposition to ask users "to step up and
>> do it" when the march of progress indicates that it wasn't the users
>> that asked for this change. Change may be good, but I think alot of the
>> feedback on this forum has shown that the cliche of "not ready for prime
>> time" is valid for a significant number of folks hitting Gnome3 in F15.
>>
>> Full disclosure comment: I have not moved to F15 because of what I have
>> read on this forum. I am hoping F16 gets a better response.
>>
>> Paul
> Fedora is a volunteer organization.  What everyone volunteered for is
> clearly spelled out.  It is hard sometimes keeping up with all the
> changes that happen, and sometimes those changes get into Fedora before
> they are "not ready for prime time".  That is not a bug with Fedora,
> that is a feature.  It attempts to be the distribution to go to when you
> absolutely want the latest with all its warts, and when long term
> support is not an issue for you.
>
> It is very easy to like having all the latest stuff until something
> breaks or some new, radically different version of something (big or
> small) comes out and disrupts the way you like to work.  Every so often
> something big changes, like Gnome or KDE, and people start asking the
> devs to extend support for their favorite version.  Attempts have been
> made in the past to provide this sort of support, and they have failed
> due to lack of interest in doing the actual work.  I am not now, and
> have never been, a Fedora dev, but my guess is that any of the ones who
> might be inclined to provide longer term support would know the history
> and be very wary of even considering it.
>
> That is why you will often see people on this list recommend that
> someone actually choose a disto other than Fedora for their suggested
> use case.  It is not because the people making the recommendation don't
> like Fedora, but that they realize that there are often cases where
> concerns about having quick access to the latest software are trumped by
> needs for a stable, long term platform.  When you make the choice to
> install Fedora in an environment that needs long term stability, you are
> implicitly assuming extra responsibility and extra effort on your part.
>
> Woogie
Woggie:

By using Fedora, I certainly accept everything that you state in your 
email (and have since FC5). I believe the developers (Fedora, Gnome, 
KDE, etc.) are making the best decisions they can in moving forward and 
that, yes, there will be bumps. In my opinion, Gnome3 in Fedora 15 has 
been a pretty major bump given the continuous threads expressing concern.

I feel voicing the concern about wanting to keep F14 supported for just 
security updates as the original email is valid feedback to the 
developers about how its user base is viewing this forward progress. 
They may not be able to do it owing to amount of work involved (and/or 
other reasons), but the awareness that the noise level on this forum 
about Gnome3 / F15 is high is important.

I wish to clarify that I do not take the original postings view of 
"waiting for F17". I am gambling on F16 being in alot better shape in 
regards to all this given awareness of all the concern expressed in many 
threads.

Paul

Paul
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Re: Disable "import photos" automagically running whenever I plug a pen drive

[François Patte]

-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
Hash: SHA1

Le 02/09/2011 23:04, Fernando Cassia a écrit :
> What is the official procedure to PERMANTLY DISABLING -without removing
> it- the autorun of this POS piece of software that automatically starts
> accesing my pen drive trying to index pictures?
> 
> I want to stop this, forever.

It used to be something in System>Prefs which allowed to manage
removable devices... It seems that this has disappeared!

Install gconf-editor

Then in apps>nautilus>pref

untick:  media_automount_open

tick: media_autorun_never


Previous tool was handy, that's why they have removed it...

Be careful with gconf editor, in case of mistake you could waste a lot
of time to recover...

- -- 
François Patte
UFR de mathématiques et informatique
Laboratoire MAP5 --- UMR CNRS 8145
Université Paris Descartes
45, rue des Saints Pères
F-75270 Paris Cedex 06
Tél. +33 (0)1 4286 2145
http://www.math-info.univ-paris5.fr/~patte
-BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-
Version: GnuPG v1.4.11 (GNU/Linux)
Comment: Using GnuPG with Fedora - http://enigmail.mozdev.org/

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Re: Question on DNS setup change not working.

[Cameron Simpson]

On 03Sep2011 04:56, Michael D. Setzer II  wrote:
| Our MIS department just decided to not allow the use of the public 
| IP addresses of system from local machines, so I made the 
| additions to the hosts file with the private ip and the name.
| restart named and restarted squid, and squid picked up the 
| change, and would bring up pages using the name. Unfortunately, 
| dig and other options would still be using the public IP instead.
| 
| Tried restarting the machine to see if something might not have 
| been changed, but it remains the same.

/etc/hosts is not part of DNS. It is part of the name lookup procedure
used by gethostbyname(). So: squid is affected by /etc/hosts, but dig
and named are NOT, and will not be: they are specificly DNS tools.

My recommendation is to add a special .local zone to your named with
names host1.local etc with the private addresses. Then add local to the
_front_ of the search path in /etc/resolv.conf:

  search local your.normal.domain.here

Then using the short names should work.

Cheers,
-- 
Cameron Simpson  DoD#743
http://www.cskk.ezoshosting.com/cs/

"He deserves death!"
"Deserves it!  I daresay he does.  And many die that deserve life.  Is it in
 your power to give it to them?  Then do not be so quick to deal out death in
 judgement, for even the very wise may not see all ends."
- Gandalf, _The Lord of the Rings_
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Re: Problem with blacklisting kernel modules with boot parameter

[Marcin Zajączkowski]

On 2011-09-02 23:12, John Pilkington wrote:
-- 
http://solidsoft.wordpress.com/ - Working code is not enough

> On 02/09/11 21:28, Marcin Zajączkowski wrote:
>> On 2011-09-02 22:06, Tom Horsley wrote:
>>> On Fri, 02 Sep 2011 21:43:53 +0200
>>> Marcin Zajączkowski wrote:
>>>
 I've read about rd.blacklist boot parameter [2] which should work
 starting with Fedora 12 (as I understand it) [3], but in my case it 
 doesn't.
>>> I've always seen that spelled rdblacklist (no dot).
>> Thanks for your reply. I just tried it, but with no effect. What is more
>> I tried to blacklist some minor module on an another computer with
>> Fedora 14 using rd.blacklist, rdblacklist and blacklist - module was
>> loaded all the time.
>>
>> Could someone confirm that blacklisting at boot level really works for
>> him/her?
>>
>> Regards
>> Marcin
>>
> In F12 the nVidia driver needed rdblacklist=nouveau on the kernel line.
> 
> After two stages of preupgrade this no longer appears in my F14 
> grub.confNot directly relevant but it did work in F12.

Thanks for your reply.

I've found some explanation in the other bug in bugzilla [1]:
> rdblacklist only prevents loading of the module in the rd=ramdisk. If you want
> to prevent it to be loaded as soon as your root device is mounted, you also
> have to do [add to /etc/modprobe.d/blacklist-xxx.conf]

That could be a reason.

[1] - https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=611427

I will try to modify livecd.

Best
Marcin

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Re: Vote to extend F14 security updates

[Michael Cronenworth]

Robert Arkiletian wrote:
> In order to help the community stay with Fedora, could
> security updates for F14 be provided until F17 is released?

Fedora is not a democracy. It is a meritocracy.

The only changes that get made to Fedora are by people that work to make 
the changes. Votes are not cast. Petitions are not honored. The elected 
individuals in Fedora are to keep the package maintainers in check with 
the existing policies. They do not govern the direction of upstream 
software.

To put it bluntly, if this isn't obvious by now, this thread is pointless.
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Re: Problem with blacklisting kernel modules with boot parameter

[John Pilkington]

On 02/09/11 21:28, Marcin Zajączkowski wrote:
> On 2011-09-02 22:06, Tom Horsley wrote:
>> On Fri, 02 Sep 2011 21:43:53 +0200
>> Marcin Zajączkowski wrote:
>>
>>> I've read about rd.blacklist boot parameter [2] which should work
>>> starting with Fedora 12 (as I understand it) [3], but in my case it doesn't.
>>
>> I've always seen that spelled rdblacklist (no dot).
>
> Thanks for your reply. I just tried it, but with no effect. What is more
> I tried to blacklist some minor module on an another computer with
> Fedora 14 using rd.blacklist, rdblacklist and blacklist - module was
> loaded all the time.
>
> Could someone confirm that blacklisting at boot level really works for
> him/her?
>
> Regards
> Marcin
>
In F12 the nVidia driver needed rdblacklist=nouveau on the kernel line.

After two stages of preupgrade this no longer appears in my F14 
grub.confNot directly relevant but it did work in F12.

John P



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Disable "import photos" automagically running whenever I plug a pen drive

[Fernando Cassia]

What is the official procedure to PERMANTLY DISABLING -without removing it-
the autorun of this POS piece of software that automatically starts accesing
my pen drive trying to index pictures?

I want to stop this, forever.

TIA

FC
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Re: any way to control disk order?

[Tom Horsley]

On Fri, 02 Sep 2011 15:31:38 -0500
Aaron Konstam wrote:

> Wouldn't changing the entries in grub.conf also do the trick

I don't know, but it has stopped doing it now for some
reason. Maybe because the external USB drive usually spins itself
down before I reboot and it is taking it longer to respond,
so it is winding up as /dev/sdc again?
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Re: I think we need a discussion

[Tom Horsley]

On Fri, 2 Sep 2011 16:21:29 -0400
Robert Myers wrote:

> Then they see how real nerds handle the problems and they think,
> "U, maybe Windows isn't so bad, after all."

I think of it as playing a complicated puzzle solving
computer game :-).
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Re: any way to control disk order?

[Aaron Konstam]

On Fri, 2011-09-02 at 08:59 -0500, Robert Nichols wrote:
> On 09/01/2011 09:56 PM, Tom Horsley wrote:
> > My poor old system died, and I resurrected it by moving the
> > disks to an older system. For who knows what reason, the
> > kernel has decided to call the external USB drive I use for
> > backups /dev/sda (the old system called it /dev/sdc).
> >
> > My internal sata disks are being called /dev/sdb and
> > /dev/sdc.
> >
> > This screws with things like hddtemp where you have to
> > give it args like /dev/sda /dev/sdb.
> >
> > I don't suppose there is any available mechanism for
> > forcefully inducing the kernel to enumerate removable
> > drives last?
> 
> You could try fighting with udev rules to force the naming the
> way you want it, or just give hddtemp links in /dev/disk/by-id/
> instead of /dev/sda, etc.  Those links are based on device
> serial numbers.
> 
> -- 
> Bob Nichols "NOSPAM" is really part of my email address.
>  Do NOT delete it.
> 

Wouldn't changing the entries in grub.conf also do the trick
-- 
===
If I promised you the moon and the stars, would you believe it? -- Alan
Parsons Project
===
Aaron Konstam telephone: (210) 656-0355 e-mail: akons...@sbcglobal.net

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Re: Problem with blacklisting kernel modules with boot parameter

[Marcin Zajączkowski]

On 2011-09-02 22:06, Tom Horsley wrote:
> On Fri, 02 Sep 2011 21:43:53 +0200
> Marcin Zajączkowski wrote:
> 
>> I've read about rd.blacklist boot parameter [2] which should work
>> starting with Fedora 12 (as I understand it) [3], but in my case it doesn't.
> 
> I've always seen that spelled rdblacklist (no dot).

Thanks for your reply. I just tried it, but with no effect. What is more
I tried to blacklist some minor module on an another computer with
Fedora 14 using rd.blacklist, rdblacklist and blacklist - module was
loaded all the time.

Could someone confirm that blacklisting at boot level really works for
him/her?

Regards
Marcin

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Re: Vote to extend F14 security updates

[Pedro Francisco]

On Fri, Sep 2, 2011 at 2:28 PM, Robert Marcano wrote:

> On 09/01/2011 08:44 PM, Robert Arkiletian wrote:
> > I run Fedora in school computer lab. I cannot upgrade to F15 because
> > of gnome3. In order to help the community stay with Fedora, could
> > security updates for F14 be provided until F17 is released?
> > Hopefully by then gnome3 will be fully baked.
> >
>
> I do not see this happening. My recommendation, play with dconf default
> settings on a Fedora 15 installation and force all users the fallback
> GNOME session
>
> [org/gnome/desktop/session]
> session-name='gnome-fallback'
>
> This is what we are doing, not because we do not like GNOME 3, just that
> we need gradually train people about the new UI. GNOME Fallback session
> is enough GNOME 2 like for the average user




My vote is on this. Alternatively, tweak Gnome shell: install *tint2* for a
taskbar and install *gnome-shell-extension-apps-menu* for a normal apps
menu. It should also be easy to remove the hot corner (I'm guessing that
since there is code to add another corner
on gnome-shell-extension-righthotcorner).

-- 
Pedro
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Re: I think we need a discussion

[Robert Myers]

On Fri, Sep 2, 2011 at 4:07 PM, stan  wrote:
> On Fri, 2 Sep 2011 10:38:01 -0400
> Tom Horsley  wrote:
>
>> See:
>>
>> http://home.comcast.net/~tomhorsley/wisdom/braindump/degnome.html
>>
>> The link in there points to:
>>
>> http://home.comcast.net/~tomhorsley/wisdom/braindump/sample-fvwm.tar.bz2
>
> Thank you Tom.

So nerd wannabes notice a thread like this about how clumsy the user
interfaces are.

"Maybe this is what I want."

Then they see how real nerds handle the problems and they think,
"U, maybe Windows isn't so bad, after all."

Robert.


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Re: I think we need a discussion

[stan]

On Fri, 2 Sep 2011 10:38:01 -0400
Tom Horsley  wrote:

> See:
> 
> http://home.comcast.net/~tomhorsley/wisdom/braindump/degnome.html
> 
> The link in there points to:
> 
> http://home.comcast.net/~tomhorsley/wisdom/braindump/sample-fvwm.tar.bz2

Thank you Tom.
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Re: Problem with blacklisting kernel modules with boot parameter

[Tom Horsley]

On Fri, 02 Sep 2011 21:43:53 +0200
Marcin Zajączkowski wrote:

> I've read about rd.blacklist boot parameter [2] which should work
> starting with Fedora 12 (as I understand it) [3], but in my case it doesn't.

I've always seen that spelled rdblacklist (no dot).
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hdmi audio kernel bug?

[Tom Horsley]

I've just found and followed the magical instructions
here: http://analogbit.com/fix_nvidia_edid to eradicate
the nvidia driver HDMI audio support by convincing it
the TV I'm using doesn't support HDMI audio.

It works great, but I'm wondering why having the HDMI
audio device exist prevented the onboard Nvidia CK804
audio from working at all?

Both audio devices showed up in the gnome control center
sound app. I could select the CK804 as the default, but
it would never play sound.

Is this an alsa bug of some kind? Or ham fisted clobbering
of alsa by the kmod-nvidia binary driver? Anyplace I
should report it?

(It is ironic that another system I wanted to use HDMI
audio on had an unsupported ATI card, and the system I don't
want to use HDMI audio on has an nvidia card clobbering
the other audio :-).
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Re: Vote to extend F14 security updates

[Genes MailLists]

On 09/02/2011 01:42 PM, Bryn M. Reeves wrote:
> On 09/02/2011 06:17 PM, Wade Hampton wrote:
>> I agree with those asking to extend F14.  Extending
>> support will allow more time to fix F16 to better address
>> the GUI issues with Gnome 3, hopefully.
> 
> That doesn't make sense; extending support for F14 creates more work for
> developers with already busy schedules. That would translate into less time
> spent on F16 (or F15 updates or post-F16 rawhide, i.e. what will become F17).
> 


  1) The argument is not completely wrong (not that I think supporting
F14 will happen or even makes sense - but for other reasons - see below) -

* The Gnome 3 devs (who are in large part redhat) would spend zero
time supporting F14 Gnome 2 in this case

* neither would the systemd team (lennart) do any F14 work (obviously)

* however it would take time from the kernel team ... and others ...
that said, it may make some sense to update the kernel on F14.

2)  Most people who are not happy with Gnome 3 have simply dropped it
for other DE's - Gnome 3 is not a rational reason for continued support
of F14.

Gnome 2 is dead - whether you move to KDE, XFCE, LXDE or Gnome Shell
or anything else - none of them will be Gnome 2 or ever bring back Gnome
2 - its dead/gone sitting with the fishes .. move on ...

 Problems with systemd (if you have any) might be ... but Gnome 3 is not
a valid reason to hold resources supporting F14 in my view.


  gene




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Problem with blacklisting kernel modules with boot parameter

[Marcin Zajączkowski]

Hi,


I was playing with Fedora 16 Alpha and I've got a problem with Kernel
3.x and a camera in my laptop preventing me from installation [1].

The workaround seems to blacklist a uvcvideo kernel module, but because
it's an installation process and can't just add module to
/etc/modprobe.d/blacklist.conf (without a LiveCD customization).

I've read about rd.blacklist boot parameter [2] which should work
starting with Fedora 12 (as I understand it) [3], but in my case it doesn't.

I've tried with rd.blacklist=uvcvideo and blacklist=uvcvideo at boot
time, but uvcvideo is still loaded. Is there something else I've missed
or this could be a bug in Fedora 16 Alpha?


[1] - https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=734963
[2] - http://people.redhat.com/harald/dracut.html
[3] - http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Features/Dracut


Regards
Marcin

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Re: [389-users] add inetuser objectclass on replication

[Rich Megginson]

On 09/02/2011 01:36 PM, Vasil Mikhalenya wrote:
> I want posixAccount and attributes will be added on replication. Do I
> have to write my own plugin?
Yes.  Or use freeipa - it has a winsync plugin that does posix and kerberos.
> What is utilization/application of such AD replication ?
I don't understand the question.
> thnx
>
> On Fri, Sep 2, 2011 at 8:45 PM, Rich Megginson  wrote:
>> On 09/02/2011 10:55 AM, Vasil Mikhalenya wrote:
>>> Hi all,
>>>
>>> DS is replicated from AD, I want memberOf enabled for all users ( new
>>> users also ) but memberOf plugin requires inetuser objectclass.
>>>
>>> How can I add inetuser objectclass to any user on/after replication.
>>> There is any other way do it?
>> If you are C coder, you could write a winsync plugin.  For an example, see
>> http://git.fedorahosted.org/git?p=freeipa.git;a=tree;f=daemons/ipa-slapi-plugins/ipa-winsync;h=6e98de1256bb4868ce1de2115db2e5ceb81f49fc;hb=HEAD
>>> Thank you.
>>>
>>
>
>

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Re: [389-users] add inetuser objectclass on replication

[Vasil Mikhalenya]

I want posixAccount and attributes will be added on replication. Do I
have to write my own plugin?
What is utilization/application of such AD replication ?

thnx

On Fri, Sep 2, 2011 at 8:45 PM, Rich Megginson  wrote:
> On 09/02/2011 10:55 AM, Vasil Mikhalenya wrote:
>>
>> Hi all,
>>
>> DS is replicated from AD, I want memberOf enabled for all users ( new
>> users also ) but memberOf plugin requires inetuser objectclass.
>>
>> How can I add inetuser objectclass to any user on/after replication.
>> There is any other way do it?
>
> If you are C coder, you could write a winsync plugin.  For an example, see
> http://git.fedorahosted.org/git?p=freeipa.git;a=tree;f=daemons/ipa-slapi-plugins/ipa-winsync;h=6e98de1256bb4868ce1de2115db2e5ceb81f49fc;hb=HEAD
>>
>> Thank you.
>>
>
>



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Re: Good hardware compatibility info?

[Stefan Held]

Am Freitag, den 02.09.2011, 12:40 -0400 schrieb Tom Horsley:

> I'm wondering about things like USB 3.0, sata 3.0,
> UEFI BIOS, Sandy Bridge, i7 processors, Intel HD 3000
> graphics, etc.

I am writing you this at the keyboard of a Asus Crosshair Formula V
Mainboard. It has all the fancy stuff like UEFI, SATA3, USB3. 
For Fedora 15, the only noticeable problem is during the install
(DVD-Install) because the USB3 Module gets not loaded. 

Doing a Live Image install is the better option here. ;)

Everything else works like a charm. Even the AMD Sata Raid is detected
without problems. Sensors work. ALC889 SPDIF Out is detected on the fly,
after the first boot every USB Port works like expected. 

For i7 and Sandy Bridge i am pretty sure someone elsa has an answer ;)

-- 

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obi unixkiste orgThe first one is for beeping all the time,
FreeNode: foo_barthe second destroys the text.
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Re: Good hardware compatibility info?

[Hiisi]

On 2 September 2011 16:40, Tom Horsley  wrote:
> Since my computer died, I'm looking at building a brand
> new system, and I wonder about all the fancy new stuff
> available in the hardware and linux support (fedora
> in particular). Other than beating my head against google,
> is there a good resource for researching this stuff?
>
> I'm wondering about things like USB 3.0, sata 3.0,
> UEFI BIOS, Sandy Bridge, i7 processors, Intel HD 3000
> graphics, etc.

Before making your final choose consult fedoraproject smolt page [1]
and search for desired hardware. After making a fresh install I always
submit my smolt profile. And many do the same.
REFERENCES:
1. http://smolt.fedoraproject.org/
HTH
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Question on DNS setup change not working.

[Michael D. Setzer II]

Our MIS department just decided to not allow the use of the public 
IP addresses of system from local machines, so I made the 
additions to the hosts file with the private ip and the name.
restart named and restarted squid, and squid picked up the 
change, and would bring up pages using the name. Unfortunately, 
dig and other options would still be using the public IP instead.

Tried restarting the machine to see if something might not have 
been changed, but it remains the same.

In the past, I had done this same thing for local services I have.
redhatgcc.dyndns.org has a public ip of 202.128.73.24, but on the 
inside it has the private ip of 192.168.50.41. So, the hosts file has 
the link between the 192.168.50.41 and the 
redhatgcc.dyndns.org,  and it reports that.

But now the college web sever that has a public IP of 
202.128.72.2 is now mapped internally to 10.10.10.11, so I added 
the same mapping but dig still reports the 202.128.72.2 number, 
and that will no longer work from the inside?

Is there something that might be caching the old information even 
after a system restart?  

At this point to get it to work, I've had to point to there DNS server 
that using 172.16.0.4? We've got less than 1000 machine on 
campus, but they now have 10.x.x.x networks, and 172.16.x 
networks and a number of 192.168.x networks...


+--+
  Michael D. Setzer II -  Computer Science Instructor  
  Guam Community College  Computer Center  
  mailto:mi...@kuentos.guam.net
  mailto:msetze...@gmail.com
  http://www.guam.net/home/mikes
  Guam - Where America's Day Begins
  G4L Disk Imaging Project maintainer 
  http://sourceforge.net/projects/g4l/
+--+

http://setiathome.berkeley.edu (Original)
Number of Seti Units Returned:  19,471
Processing time:  32 years, 290 days, 12 hours, 58 minutes
(Total Hours: 287,489)

BOINC@HOME CREDITS
SETI11189934.576302   |   EINSTEIN 6468781.769851
ROSETTA  3563786.501816   |   ABC  7853564.918328

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Re: Fedora 15 is a lot like Windows OS's.. irritating, offensive, difficult to use with ease, nauseating to try...

[Alan Cox]

> Yes, they're human, just as Bill Gates and all of his minions are. 
> However, when it comes to the Gnome devs, I've never seen the slightest 
> indication that they even pay attention to what the users want or need, 
> let alone their complaints.  This is one of the many reasons I don't use 
> Gnome any more.

Well in some senses I'm not surprised - I think there is a bit of siege
mentality, but they even systematically blocked a proposal to do a user
survey recently.

One job of any developer is to stop things being done as quick fixes or
adjustments to fix things for a specific use case to the detriment of the
others. Giving users what they want as opposed to what they need
sometimes leads to very bad results. In a lot of cases the users are
other programmers but the UI people have an enormous number of folks they
interface to very directly.
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Re: Fedora 15 is a lot like Windows OS's.. irritating, offensive, difficult to use with ease, nauseating to try...

[Tom Horsley]

On Fri, 02 Sep 2011 11:24:24 -0700
Joe Zeff wrote:

> Yes, they're human, just as Bill Gates and all of his minions are. 
> However, when it comes to the Gnome devs, I've never seen the slightest 
> indication that they even pay attention to what the users want or need, 
> let alone their complaints.

For a fun historical read, try this bugzilla:

http://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=136541
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Re: Fedora 15 is a lot like Windows OS's.. irritating, offensive, difficult to use with ease, nauseating to try...

[Joe Zeff]

On 09/02/2011 11:03 AM, Andrew Haley wrote:
> I take your point.  However, I think they're human; if you prick them,
> do they not bleed?  Surely they must be a little bit hurt by all these
> complaints from their users.

Yes, they're human, just as Bill Gates and all of his minions are. 
However, when it comes to the Gnome devs, I've never seen the slightest 
indication that they even pay attention to what the users want or need, 
let alone their complaints.  This is one of the many reasons I don't use 
Gnome any more.
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Re: Fedora 15 is a lot like Windows OS's.. irritating, offensive, difficult to use with ease, nauseating to try...

[Andrew Haley]

On 09/02/2011 05:41 PM, Joe Zeff wrote:
> On 09/02/2011 05:51 AM, Andrew Haley wrote:
>> I hope that the GNOME developers will make good
>> use of this feedback.
> 
> Since when has there been the slightest sign of the Gnome devs giving a 
> rats ass about what mere users think?

I take your point.  However, I think they're human; if you prick them,
do they not bleed?  Surely they must be a little bit hurt by all these
complaints from their users.

Andrew.
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Re: Vote to extend F14 security updates

[Joe Zeff]

On 09/02/2011 10:17 AM, Wade Hampton wrote:
> I agree with those asking to extend F14.  Extending
> support will allow more time to fix F16 to better address
> the GUI issues with Gnome 3, hopefully.

Why are you assuming that Gnome 3 will still be a FPOS by the time F16 
comes out?
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Re: [389-users] add inetuser objectclass on replication

[Rich Megginson]

On 09/02/2011 10:55 AM, Vasil Mikhalenya wrote:
> Hi all,
>
> DS is replicated from AD, I want memberOf enabled for all users ( new
> users also ) but memberOf plugin requires inetuser objectclass.
>
> How can I add inetuser objectclass to any user on/after replication.
> There is any other way do it?
If you are C coder, you could write a winsync plugin.  For an example, 
see 
http://git.fedorahosted.org/git?p=freeipa.git;a=tree;f=daemons/ipa-slapi-plugins/ipa-winsync;h=6e98de1256bb4868ce1de2115db2e5ceb81f49fc;hb=HEAD
> Thank you.
>

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Re: Vote to extend F14 security updates

[Bryn M. Reeves]

On 09/02/2011 06:17 PM, Wade Hampton wrote:
> I agree with those asking to extend F14.  Extending
> support will allow more time to fix F16 to better address
> the GUI issues with Gnome 3, hopefully.

That doesn't make sense; extending support for F14 creates more work for
developers with already busy schedules. That would translate into less time
spent on F16 (or F15 updates or post-F16 rawhide, i.e. what will become F17).

Regards,
Bryn.
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Re: Vote to extend F14 security updates

[Peter Gueckel]

Robert Arkiletian wrote:

> I cannot upgrade to F15 because
> of gnome3. In order to help the community 
stay with Fedora

Why can't the "community" use KDE? No need to 
answer, just a thought.

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Re: Vote to extend F14 security updates

[Wade Hampton]

I agree with those asking to extend F14.  Extending
support will allow more time to fix F16 to better address
the GUI issues with Gnome 3, hopefully.

Cheers,
--
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[389-users] add inetuser objectclass on replication

[Vasil Mikhalenya]

Hi all,

DS is replicated from AD, I want memberOf enabled for all users ( new
users also ) but memberOf plugin requires inetuser objectclass.

How can I add inetuser objectclass to any user on/after replication.
There is any other way do it?

Thank you.

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Re: Fedora 15 is a lot like Windows OS's.. irritating, offensive, difficult to use with ease, nauseating to try...

[Tom Horsley]

On Fri, 02 Sep 2011 09:41:10 -0700
Joe Zeff wrote:

> Since when has there been the slightest sign of the Gnome devs giving a 
> rats ass about what mere users think?

They care enormously about what the imaginary user they have
created thinks. Real users, not so much. They can always
imagine overwhelmingly greater numbers of imaginary users
than real users :-).
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Re: Does the Asus Xonar DG sound card work well in F14?

[Richard Shaw]

I just wanted to let anyone who was following this thread that I
finally made my purchase (Newegg had the card for $25 + $10 rebate
from Asus).

I ended up waiting until I installed F15 so I can't tell you if it
would of worked with F15 kernels on F14...

It sounds AWESOME and I no longer have any issues using more than 2
channels. For some reason the builtin sound sounded worse the more
channels I setup.

Also, this card has a headphone amp so you get good sound from higher
end headphones.

Thanks,
Richard
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Re: Fedora 15 is a lot like Windows OS's.. irritating, offensive, difficult to use with ease, nauseating to try...

[Joe Zeff]

On 09/02/2011 05:51 AM, Andrew Haley wrote:
> I hope that the GNOME developers will make good
> use of this feedback.
>

Since when has there been the slightest sign of the Gnome devs giving a 
rats ass about what mere users think?
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Good hardware compatibility info?

[Tom Horsley]

Since my computer died, I'm looking at building a brand
new system, and I wonder about all the fancy new stuff
available in the hardware and linux support (fedora
in particular). Other than beating my head against google,
is there a good resource for researching this stuff?

I'm wondering about things like USB 3.0, sata 3.0,
UEFI BIOS, Sandy Bridge, i7 processors, Intel HD 3000
graphics, etc.
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Re: Fedora 15 is a lot like Windows OS's.. irritating, offensive, difficult to use with ease, nauseating to try...

[Joe Zeff]

On 09/02/2011 01:21 AM, Alan Cox wrote:
> Ease of use. We've replaced option boxes with magic impenetrable
> extensions and for the rest you have to code them yourself.

No.  Ease of coding for the devs and to hell with the users.
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Re: Fedora 15 is a lot like Windows OS's.. irritating, offensive, difficult to use with ease, nauseating to try...

[Ian Pilcher]

On 09/01/2011 04:24 PM, Marko Vojinovic wrote:
> A lot of people dismissed KDE after the rough time of version 4.0, in
> a similar way that Gnome3 is now losing its userbase. But today KDE4
> is a beautiful, stable and very user-friendly DE. I guess Gnome3 will
> get back on its feet in the next couple of Fedora versions, but atm
> KDE is the most polished environment available. ;-)

I've been very surprised at how many former KDE 3.x users, are not even
looking at KDE again.  I suppose it's a great illustration of the "once
bitten, twice shy" effect.

-- 

Ian Pilcher arequip...@gmail.com
"If you're going to shift my paradigm ... at least buy me dinner first."


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Re: I think we need a discussion

[Tom Horsley]

On Tue, 30 Aug 2011 20:37:20 -0700
John Wendel wrote:

> I also would like to see your custom config files.

OK, my computer picked the middle of this thread to die,
but I have done a brain transplant and have it back
now (more or less).

I've added a link in my de-gnomeing web page to a
tarball with various fvwm configs, scripts, etc.
that I use. It is by no means plug & play as is,
but you can probably see what I'm doing with what
I've included in the tarball.

See:

http://home.comcast.net/~tomhorsley/wisdom/braindump/degnome.html

The link in there points to:

http://home.comcast.net/~tomhorsley/wisdom/braindump/sample-fvwm.tar.bz2
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Re: Fedora 15 is a lot like Windows OS's.. irritating, offensive, difficult to use with ease, nauseating to try...

[Stefan Held]

Am Freitag, den 02.09.2011, 09:44 -0400 schrieb Darryl L. Pierce:

> Great points. If we didn't have change and innovation we'd all still be
> using 80x25 monochrome text mode terminals.

It was only a change, no innovation .

http://www.songmeanings.net/songs/view/76280/


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obi unixkiste orgThe first one is for beeping all the time,
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Re: Fedora 15 is a lot like Windows OS's.. irritating, offensive, difficult to use with ease, nauseating to try...

[Tom Horsley]

On Fri, 2 Sep 2011 15:01:56 +0100
Alan Cox wrote:

> fvwm went from hero to zero in a few years

Who says? I use it all the time because it doesn't
obsessively change out from under me just because it
can. Some faction of linux geeks seem to believe that
if something isn't radically changed every few
months it is dead. I, on the other hand, appreciate
software that doesn't keep making me relearn everything
when I could be doing useful work instead.
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Re: Fedora 15 is a lot like Windows OS's.. irritating, offensive, difficult to use with ease, nauseating to try...

[Andras Simon]

2011/9/2, Alan Cox :

> No easy answers but there is a free market, and weaker solutions go away
> (amazingly fast some times - fvwm went from hero to zero in a few years
> for example)

I assume you meant "fvwm became stable" :-)

Andras
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Gnome Shell updates?

[Steven Stern]

I've been reviewing bugzilla for reported bugs in Gnome 3.0 and it seems
that there's no action taking place on them.  Does anyone know what's
going on upstream?  Are bugs being researched?  Addressed?  Fixes tested?

My bugs of interest are

Pressing Alt-Tab crashes gnome shell:
https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=730063

Unable to access shell after system has been idle for several hours:
https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=716444


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Re: Fedora 15 is a lot like Windows OS's.. irritating, offensive, difficult to use with ease, nauseating to try...

[Alan Cox]

On Fri, 2 Sep 2011 14:43:42 +0100
Richard Hughes  wrote:

> On 1 September 2011 21:29, Digimer  wrote:
> > Also, Linux is all about choice.
> 
> https://www.redhat.com/archives/fedora-devel-list/2008-January/msg00861.html

Yeah its a very naïve viewpoint. The problem starts here

"Software is hard.  The way to fix it is to fix it, not sweep it under
the rug."

That presupposes there is a definition of "fixed" that is global,
absolute and measurable. There isn't. You can "fix" certain bits of
software because they have a tightly definable purpose.

A desktop UI doesn't because everyone who is involved with it has a
different definition of "fixed". Instead it is either about balancing
those tradeoffs, or in some cases just accepting the two differing
viewpoints actually don't easily reconcile and can't be wrapped nicely in
one package.

Yes it should be fixed too - Gnome3 shouldn't have such a lousy
compositor performance, it shouldn't rely on GL when it's completely
excessive for what it does (take a look at the E canvas in comparison)
etc, and it really ought to handle smaller machines better rather than
aping the Windows 'gee thats hard,  it, fallback to a naff emulation
of the old code' behaviour.

Desktops are a a bit more like the old Star Wars quote - "The more you
tighten your grip, Tarkin, the more star systems will slip through your
fingers. ". Equally the less grip you have the less managable it all gets.

No easy answers but there is a free market, and weaker solutions go away
(amazingly fast some times - fvwm went from hero to zero in a few years
for example)

Alan
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Re: any way to control disk order?

[Robert Nichols]

On 09/01/2011 09:56 PM, Tom Horsley wrote:
> My poor old system died, and I resurrected it by moving the
> disks to an older system. For who knows what reason, the
> kernel has decided to call the external USB drive I use for
> backups /dev/sda (the old system called it /dev/sdc).
>
> My internal sata disks are being called /dev/sdb and
> /dev/sdc.
>
> This screws with things like hddtemp where you have to
> give it args like /dev/sda /dev/sdb.
>
> I don't suppose there is any available mechanism for
> forcefully inducing the kernel to enumerate removable
> drives last?

You could try fighting with udev rules to force the naming the
way you want it, or just give hddtemp links in /dev/disk/by-id/
instead of /dev/sda, etc.  Those links are based on device
serial numbers.

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 Do NOT delete it.

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Re: Fedora 15 is a lot like Windows OS's.. irritating, offensive, difficult to use with ease, nauseating to try...

[Darryl L. Pierce]

On Thu, Sep 01, 2011 at 04:29:59PM -0400, Digimer wrote:
> When Red hat 8 (original) came out, I hated Gnome and wanted
> Enlightenment back.
> 
> When Windows 95 came out, I hated it's new UI and wanted 3.1 back.

Great points. If we didn't have change and innovation we'd all still be
using 80x25 monochrome text mode terminals.
 
> Things change, it's part of computers (and everything else). So when F15
> came out, I decided to let go of my old ways of working and try to
> understand the logic and flow of Gnome 3. Now I love it, and get
> frustrated back on Gnome2 machines.
> 
> Also, Linux is all about choice. Gnome 3 is what it is. You are welcome
> to use KDE, XFCE, Ubuntu's Ubiquity or any one of the numerous other
> window managers and/or distros.

+1 to all of the above. The system is flexible enough that users can go
to another desktop environment, or mix and match what's there, without
giving up the whole OS.

If your work is completely tied to a single implementation of one version
of a desktop environment then I think you might be doing it wrong...

-- 
Darryl L. Pierce, Sr. Software Engineer @ Red Hat, Inc.
Delivering value year after year.
Red Hat ranks #1 in value among software vendors.
http://www.redhat.com/promo/vendor/



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Re: Fedora 15 is a lot like Windows OS's.. irritating, offensive, difficult to use with ease, nauseating to try...

[Richard Hughes]

On 1 September 2011 21:29, Digimer  wrote:
> Also, Linux is all about choice.

https://www.redhat.com/archives/fedora-devel-list/2008-January/msg00861.html

Richard.
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Re: Version of packages in repository

[suvayu ali]

On Fri, Sep 2, 2011 at 2:36 PM, Soham Chakraborty
 wrote:
> yum list 

$ yum list [installed|available|all]  # stars
should be escaped

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Re: Vote to extend F14 security updates

[Rahul Sundaram]

 On 09/02/2011 12:21 PM, Paul Allen Newell wrote:


Hum ... I find it a difficult proposition to ask users "to step up and
do it" when the march of progress indicates that it wasn't the users
that asked for this change.


That may well be the case and Fedora doesn't really have a choice in that
matter either however "voting" for it isn't really going to bringe resources
necessary to extend the updates cycle.  It still requires a group of people
to work together to do it.   Changes in Fedora as is common with free and
open source projects happen because people volunteered and contributed their
time and effort.I don't personally have a need for extending the updates
cycle but if there is a team of people interested in that,  I would be happy
to do my part. I just don't see a whole lot of people interested in that
however.

Rahul
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Re: Vote to extend F14 security updates

[Robert Marcano]

On 09/01/2011 08:44 PM, Robert Arkiletian wrote:
> I run Fedora in school computer lab. I cannot upgrade to F15 because
> of gnome3. In order to help the community stay with Fedora, could
> security updates for F14 be provided until F17 is released?
> Hopefully by then gnome3 will be fully baked.
>

I do not see this happening. My recommendation, play with dconf default 
settings on a Fedora 15 installation and force all users the fallback 
GNOME session

[org/gnome/desktop/session]
session-name='gnome-fallback'

This is what we are doing, not because we do not like GNOME 3, just that 
we need gradually train people about the new UI. GNOME Fallback session 
is enough GNOME 2 like for the average user
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Re: Vote to extend F14 security updates

[Mike Wohlgemuth]

On 09/02/2011 02:51 AM, Paul Allen Newell wrote:
> Hum ... I find it a difficult proposition to ask users "to step up and
> do it" when the march of progress indicates that it wasn't the users
> that asked for this change. Change may be good, but I think alot of the
> feedback on this forum has shown that the cliche of "not ready for prime
> time" is valid for a significant number of folks hitting Gnome3 in F15.
>
> Full disclosure comment: I have not moved to F15 because of what I have
> read on this forum. I am hoping F16 gets a better response.
>
> Paul

Fedora is a volunteer organization.  What everyone volunteered for is 
clearly spelled out.  It is hard sometimes keeping up with all the 
changes that happen, and sometimes those changes get into Fedora before 
they are "not ready for prime time".  That is not a bug with Fedora, 
that is a feature.  It attempts to be the distribution to go to when you 
absolutely want the latest with all its warts, and when long term 
support is not an issue for you.

It is very easy to like having all the latest stuff until something 
breaks or some new, radically different version of something (big or 
small) comes out and disrupts the way you like to work.  Every so often 
something big changes, like Gnome or KDE, and people start asking the 
devs to extend support for their favorite version.  Attempts have been 
made in the past to provide this sort of support, and they have failed 
due to lack of interest in doing the actual work.  I am not now, and 
have never been, a Fedora dev, but my guess is that any of the ones who 
might be inclined to provide longer term support would know the history 
and be very wary of even considering it.

That is why you will often see people on this list recommend that 
someone actually choose a disto other than Fedora for their suggested 
use case.  It is not because the people making the recommendation don't 
like Fedora, but that they realize that there are often cases where 
concerns about having quick access to the latest software are trumped by 
needs for a stable, long term platform.  When you make the choice to 
install Fedora in an environment that needs long term stability, you are 
implicitly assuming extra responsibility and extra effort on your part.

Woogie
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Re: Vote to extend F14 security updates

[Digimer]

On 09/01/2011 09:14 PM, Robert Arkiletian wrote:
> I run Fedora in school computer lab. I cannot upgrade to F15 because
> of gnome3. In order to help the community stay with Fedora, could
> security updates for F14 be provided until F17 is released?
> Hopefully by then gnome3 will be fully baked.

If you have an environment that requires longer life cycles, have you
considered CentOS 6? It, and it's upstream distro, are roughly
equivalent to Fedora 12 (with many, many changes). It will be supported
for another six years or so, iirc. That should leave you with a platform
you will find familiar.

-- 
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Freenode handle: digimer
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Re: Fedora 15 is a lot like Windows OS's.. irritating, offensive, difficult to use with ease, nauseating to try...

[Andrew Haley]

On 09/02/2011 12:43 PM, Łukasz Jagiełło wrote:
> 2011/9/2 Amadeus W.M. :
>> But it's a sin to take something good - granted, possibly not perfect -
>> and turn it into something unusable for so many people. Why did the UI
>> have to change to something that looks and feels like a giant smart
>> phone? Integrated chat and messaging? Where did that come from? Thank God
>> you guys didn't integrate that into the kernel!
>>
>> I can't find much information about the gnome3 developers, but they must
>> be generation Facebook - it's the "stay connected" philosophy that I see
>> in gnome3. There's more to computing than that.
>>
>> I wish someone from the old guard found the time and energy to step up
>> and straighten things up. I know, I know, different times, different
>> priorities. The gnome2 UI was good, only the internals would have to be
>> changed as needed.
> 
> Don't forget about people like me who really likes new gnome3. You
> want change distribution only cause you doesn't like new gnome3. Did
> you write all your problems at F-15 alpha stage or earlier stage when
> everything was possible to do ? Guess not

Fedora 15 is the first real outing for GNOME 3.  Most people, perhaps
understandably, don't want to spend much of their lives experimenting
with alpha operating systems just in case the developers do something
they don't like.  Clearly there are, for many people, severe usability
problems with GNOME 3.  I hope that the GNOME developers will make good
use of this feedback.

Andrew.
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Re: Fedora 15 is a lot like Windows OS's.. irritating, offensive, difficult to use with ease, nauseating to try...

[Fernando Cassia]

On Fri, Sep 2, 2011 at 01:32, Amadeus W.M.  wrote:
>
> I can't find much information about the gnome3 developers, but they must
> be generation Facebook - it's the "stay connected" philosophy that I see
> in gnome3. There's more to computing than that.
>
> I wish someone from the old guard found the time and energy to step up
> and straighten things up.

You certainly meant "generation stupid". Not to mention the young kids
at Gurgle (Google) screwing user interfaces in every way you can
imagine, ditching CUA menus and making others like the Firefox team
imitate them, by ditching well thought out useful features like the
status bar.

FC

-- 
"Si, yo creo en los objetos. Inclusive más que en los seres humanos.
Creo que son más fieles ¿no?. Porque, claro, los seres humanos pueden
traicionarte, pero los objetos no, a los objetos
los traicionamos nosotros."
                                     -Manuel Mujica Laines
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Re: Version of packages in repository

[Soham Chakraborty]

yum list 

On Fri, Sep 2, 2011 at 5:51 PM, Luc MAIGNAN wrote:

> Hi,
>
> When I do a 'yum search', I find the packages available in repository
> but not their versions (unless I do a yum install).
>
> How to find the version of the packages without trying to install them ?
>
> BR
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Re: Version of packages in repository

[birger]

yum list ???

Sitat Luc MAIGNAN :

> Hi,
> 
> When I do a 'yum search', I find the packages available in repository 
> but not their versions (unless I do a yum install).
> 
> How to find the version of the packages without trying to install them ?

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Version of packages in repository

[Luc MAIGNAN]

Hi,

When I do a 'yum search', I find the packages available in repository 
but not their versions (unless I do a yum install).

How to find the version of the packages without trying to install them ?

BR
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Re: Fedora 15 is a lot like Windows OS's.. irritating, offensive, difficult to use with ease, nauseating to try...

[Łukasz Jagiełło]

2011/9/2 Amadeus W.M. :
> But it's a sin to take something good - granted, possibly not perfect -
> and turn it into something unusable for so many people. Why did the UI
> have to change to something that looks and feels like a giant smart
> phone? Integrated chat and messaging? Where did that come from? Thank God
> you guys didn't integrate that into the kernel!
>
> I can't find much information about the gnome3 developers, but they must
> be generation Facebook - it's the "stay connected" philosophy that I see
> in gnome3. There's more to computing than that.
>
> I wish someone from the old guard found the time and energy to step up
> and straighten things up. I know, I know, different times, different
> priorities. The gnome2 UI was good, only the internals would have to be
> changed as needed.

Don't forget about people like me who really likes new gnome3. You
want change distribution only cause you doesn't like new gnome3. Did
you write all your problems at F-15 alpha stage or earlier stage when
everything was possible to do ? Guess not, but now you want to back
some support only cause you doesn't like it. Of course there are many
people who wrote here how they doesn't like gnome3, but did you think
when people who like something doesn't special write about it.

-- 
Łukasz Jagiełło
lukaszjagielloorg
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Re: Vote to extend F14 security updates

[Terry Polzin]

On Fri, 2011-09-02 at 08:18 +0200, Christopher Svanefalk wrote:
> On 09/02/2011 04:25 AM, Peter G. wrote:
> > Robert Arkiletian wrote:
> >
> >> I run Fedora in school computer lab. I cannot upgrade to F15 because
> >> of gnome3.
> > Boo hoo.
> >
> 
> He is not alone

Definitely not alone. Even XFCE in F-15 can be a bear.

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R: Re: Fedora 15 is a lot like Windows OS's.. irritating, offensive, difficult to use with ease, nauseating to try...

[antonio.montagn...@alice.it]

>Messaggio originale
>Da: ibmal...@gmail.com
>Data: 2-set-2011 11.51

>A: "Community support for Fedora users"
>Ogg: 
Re: Fedora 15 is a lot like Windows OS's.. irritating, offensive,   
difficult 
to use with ease, nauseating to try...
>
>On 1 September 2011 21:15, Linda 
McLeod  wrote:
>>
>>
>> I love this Fedora-14, and 
everything Red Hat, but Fedora-15 is a lot
>> like those vile Windows OS's..
>

>Essentially, every time I see a post like this I stop reading as soon
>as it 
tries to argue that something is wrong because it's like
>Windows. Reductio ad 
Gates is not a valid demonstration that something
>is undesireable and 
successive attempts at doing it commonly vary
>between 'this is obscure', 'this 
is oversimplified', 'this isn't
>configurable to my liking' and 'I don't like 
it'. All of those on
>their own might be good reasons to object to a design or 
feature and
>might be points worth discussing, but lots of people seem to thing

>that the Linux community is about Not Being Windows and that if you
>can 
equate something you don't like to Windows in some way then you've
>proved that 
it's undesireable. This is simply not true.
>
>-- 
>imalone
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For sure, Gnome 3 is far from Windows.

I suggest an easy test: install a 
brand new Fedora 15 and let a Windows user start to use it (someone who never 
saw a Linux system), report his experience

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Re: Fedora 15 is a lot like Windows OS's.. irritating, offensive, difficult to use with ease, nauseating to try...

[Ian Malone]

On 1 September 2011 21:15, Linda McLeod  wrote:
>
>
> I love this Fedora-14, and everything Red Hat, but Fedora-15 is a lot
> like those vile Windows OS's..

Essentially, every time I see a post like this I stop reading as soon
as it tries to argue that something is wrong because it's like
Windows. Reductio ad Gates is not a valid demonstration that something
is undesireable and successive attempts at doing it commonly vary
between 'this is obscure', 'this is oversimplified', 'this isn't
configurable to my liking' and 'I don't like it'. All of those on
their own might be good reasons to object to a design or feature and
might be points worth discussing, but lots of people seem to thing
that the Linux community is about Not Being Windows and that if you
can equate something you don't like to Windows in some way then you've
proved that it's undesireable. This is simply not true.

-- 
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Starting system logger: [FAILED]

[Michael Hennebry]

To get more space in a file system,
I've been playing with partitions.
When I was done, it wouldn't boot into graphics mode.
The filling icon never got quite full.
Using function keys to get into a virtual console,
I noticed lots of messages.
Some indicated success and some ended with [FAILED].
The first three of the latter are
Starting system logger:
Starting irqbalance:
Starting system message bus:

Previously, /dev/sdb10 was ext4, held / and used most of its 20 GB
and /dev/sdb11 was ext4, held /var and used little ot its 20 GB.
After /dev/sdb10 was still ext4, held / and used about a quarter of its 80 GB
and /dev/sdb11 was ext3, held /var and used little of its 10 GB.

To do that, I
booted into another partition,
copied sdb11 into another directory using --preserve=all,
removed sdb11,
removed sdb10,
added sdb10, bigger starting in its old starting place,
added sdb11, making it 10 GB,
made sdb11 ext3,
labeled sdb10 and sdb11 sata400-10 and sata400-11 .
copied /var back into sdb11,
resized the filesystem on sdb10,
edited fstab to use the labels on sdb10 and sdb11 instead of UUIDs,
rebooted into sdb10, sort of.

After the first time, I rememberd that fstab still had sdb11 as ext4.
Changing it to ext3 didn't help.
fsck gives sdb10 and sdb11 clean bills of health.

How do I go about debugging this?
Going into a text virtual console gets me a login prompt that works.
demsg | less doesn't help.
Is there somewhere else I should look?


It's 4:50 A.M. in the morning.
Do you know whereyour head is?

-- 
Michael   henne...@web.cs.ndsu.nodak.edu
"Pessimist: The glass is half empty.
Optimist:   The glass is half full.
Engineer:   The glass is twice as big as it needs to be."
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NetworkManager applet: force connection list refresh

[Pedro Francisco]

Is there anyway to force the NetworkManager applet to refresh its list?
Everytime I plug-in my 3G dongle (k3805-z) I have to either go to
nm-connection-editor and toggle the option "Connection available for every
user" or restart gnome-shell (ALT+F2, r) so the connection for the 3G dongle
appears...

Any ideas?
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Re: Fedora 15 is a lot like Windows OS's.. irritating, offensive, difficult to use with ease, nauseating to try...

[Rudolf Kastl]

2011/9/2 Alan Cox :
> On Thu, 1 Sep 2011 21:04:18 -0400
> "Mark W. Jeanmougin"  wrote:
>
>> On Thu, Sep 1, 2011 at 18:03, Rudolf Kastl  wrote:
>> > 2011/9/1 Alan Cox :
>> >> If you really want everything to just get out of the way and don't need
>> >> the user niceness stuff you might also want to look at Enlightement
>> >>
>> >>        yum search enlightenment
>> >>
>> >> Alan
>> >
>> > e17 will be removed from f16 because of a " for it
>> > unfortunately (afaik it has been orphaned). because of that id
>> > recommend at this point aswell to try xfce and/or lxde for a serious
>> > work environment.
>>
>> Nooo!
>
> Well you know what to do 8)  "lack of maintainer" ...
>
> Shouldn't be too hard to deal with anyway as its just a few packages to
> feed to rpmbuild again, unlike Gnome 2 where it will clash with Gnome 3

Id be willing to offer help to anyone going to maintain e17 again to
resolve technical issues and questions. Just drop me an email with the
subject "e17" or "enlightenment".

kind regards,
Rudolf Kastl
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Re: Fedora 15 is a lot like Windows OS's.. irritating, offensive, difficult to use with ease, nauseating to try...

[Alan Cox]

On Thu, 1 Sep 2011 21:04:18 -0400
"Mark W. Jeanmougin"  wrote:

> On Thu, Sep 1, 2011 at 18:03, Rudolf Kastl  wrote:
> > 2011/9/1 Alan Cox :
> >> If you really want everything to just get out of the way and don't need
> >> the user niceness stuff you might also want to look at Enlightement
> >>
> >>        yum search enlightenment
> >>
> >> Alan
> >
> > e17 will be removed from f16 because of a " for it
> > unfortunately (afaik it has been orphaned). because of that id
> > recommend at this point aswell to try xfce and/or lxde for a serious
> > work environment.
> 
> Nooo!

Well you know what to do 8)  "lack of maintainer" ...

Shouldn't be too hard to deal with anyway as its just a few packages to
feed to rpmbuild again, unlike Gnome 2 where it will clash with Gnome 3
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Re: Fedora 15 is a lot like Windows OS's.. irritating, offensive, difficult to use with ease, nauseating to try...

[Alan Cox]

On Thu, 01 Sep 2011 23:20:19 -0400
Matthew Saltzman  wrote:

> On Thu, 2011-09-01 at 14:34 -0700, Joe Zeff wrote: 
> > On 09/01/2011 02:18 PM, Matthew Saltzman wrote:
> > 
> > > gnome-shell-extension-righthotcorner-1.0-1.fc15.noarch
> > >
> > 
> > Why do you have to install an extension to make such a small change? 
> > Shouldn't this be configurable?
> > 
> 
> Think of it as a different configuration mechanism.

You mean like the C compiler is the configuration mechanism for some
options in gnome 2.x 8)

Ease of use. We've replaced option boxes with magic impenetrable
extensions and for the rest you have to code them yourself.

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sometimes my F15 doesn't boot

[Eric Doutreleau]

Hi

i m using F15 with the latest updates

and from times to times my machine doesn't boot.
it seems to hang just before starting X

Fortunately i can ssh to it and i see the following thing

systemctl list-units | grep dead
getty@tty2.serviceloaded inactive   dead  start Getty on tty2
getty@tty3.serviceloaded inactive   dead  start Getty on tty3
getty@tty4.serviceloaded inactive   dead  start Getty on tty4
getty@tty5.serviceloaded inactive   dead  start Getty on tty5
getty@tty6.serviceloaded inactive   dead  start Getty on tty6
plymouth...t-wait.service loaded inactive   dead  start Wait for 
Plymouth Boot Screen to Quit
prefdm.serviceloaded inactive   dead  start Display Manager
getty.target  loaded inactive   dead  start Login Prompts

How can i debug this problem?


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Re: Gnome3: don't have anymore the language selection box and the keyboard selection box in gdm

[Eric Doutreleau]

Thanks for your answer
unfortunately the fallback mode is not an issue

teachers here want gnome3
i guess i will do without these boxes

Eric Doutreleau

Le 30/08/2011 20:47, stan a écrit :
> On Mon, 29 Aug 2011 10:47:57 +0200
> Eric Doutreleau  wrote:
>
>> I have just installed fedora15 and therefore move to gnome3.
>>
>> we have several hundreds of pc in lab environnement where 4000+ users
>> can log in.
>> There s a lot of different nationalities among these users and i have
>> dozens of languages installed.
>> In fedora 13 people could select ( after typing their login )
>> selecting:
>>
>> the WM
>> The language
>> the keyboard
>>
>> Now i have only access to the choose of WM.
>>
>> Does someone know how i can get back the two other selection box?
>
> I run F15 x86_64.  Because I am using old hardware, it defaults to
> fallback mode.  I start it with startx after logging in at a console,
> so I can't tell you if the greeter still allows language and keyboard
> selection, though I know that F14 does.  Since the fallback mode is
> more like Gnome 2, it might still have the language and keyboard
> selection.  You can read more about the fallback mode here.
>
> http://www.vuntz.net/journal/post/2011/04/13/gnome-panel-is-dead%2C-long-live-gnome-panel!
>
> I didn't like the dark look, so I used information from the above site
> to change the adwaita theme colors.  It is now just CSS, so easy to
> change. I tried loading other themes, but that doesn't seem to be
> possible yet. I suspect that much of Gnome 3 is a work in progress at
> this point, with lots of user friendliness yet to be implemented.
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Re: Fedora 15 is a lot like Windows OS's.. irritating, offensive, difficult to use with ease, nauseating to try...

[Alexander Volovics]

On Fri, Sep 02, 2011 at 04:32:07AM +, Amadeus W.M. wrote:
 
> Why did the UI have to change to something that looks and feels
> like a giant smart phone?
> Integrated chat and messaging? Where did that come from?

Maybe because in the not too distant future all "PCs" will
become giant (or dwarf) smart phones {^+^} 
http://shop.lenovo.com/us/products/Desktops/IdeaCentre/b-series/b520/index.html

Alexander (who does not own or use a smart phone).

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Re: Vote to extend F14 security updates

[Pasha R]

On Fri, Sep 2, 2011 at 9:51 AM, Paul Allen Newell  wrote:
> On 9/1/2011 11:43 PM, Rahul Sundaram wrote:
>> On 09/02/2011 06:44 AM, Robert Arkiletian wrote:
>>> I run Fedora in school computer lab. I cannot upgrade to F15 because
>>> of gnome3. In order to help the community stay with Fedora, could
>>> security updates for F14 be provided until F17 is released?
>>> Hopefully by then gnome3 will be fully baked.
>> The only real way to vote for such issues is to step up and do it.   It
>> is a lot of work to extend the updates cycle for a distribution.
>>
>> Rahul
> Hum ... I find it a difficult proposition to ask users "to step up and
> do it" when the march of progress indicates that it wasn't the users
> that asked for this change. Change may be good, but I think alot of the
> feedback on this forum has shown that the cliche of "not ready for prime
> time" is valid for a significant number of folks hitting Gnome3 in F15.
>
> Full disclosure comment: I have not moved to F15 because of what I have

That would be nice, but I doubt Fedora devs will do it.
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Re: slim (simple login manager)

[John Schmitt]

On Thu, Sep 01, 2011 at 03:05:15PM -0400, Daniel J Walsh wrote:
> -BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
> Hash: SHA1
> 
> On 09/01/2011 02:58 PM, cromworshipper-fedorast...@yahoo.com wrote:
> > On Thu, Sep 01, 2011 at 09:49:59AM -0400, Daniel J Walsh wrote:
> >> -BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1
> >> 
> >> On 08/31/2011 06:17 PM, John Schmitt wrote:
> >>> On Wed, Aug 31, 2011 at 09:13:42AM -0400, Daniel J Walsh
> >>> wrote:
>  -BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1
>  
>  On 08/30/2011 07:01 PM, John Schmitt wrote:
> > On Mon, Aug 29, 2011 at 10:52:54AM -0400, Daniel J Walsh 
> > wrote:
> >> -BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1
> >> 
> >> On 08/28/2011 09:23 AM, Roberto Ragusa wrote:
> >>> On 08/28/2011 03:21 AM, 
> >>> cromworshipper-fedorast...@yahoo.com wrote:
>  slim started up fine when this machine was running
>  Fedora 14. I installed it from for Fedora 15:
>  
>  slim-1.3.2-8.fc15.x86_64
>  
>  It doesn't start any more.  I get this in 
>  /var/log/slim.log:
>  
>  slim: unexpected signal 15 sh: /usr/bin/xauth: 
>  Permission denied
>  
> >>> 
> >>> Check the permission of /usr/bin/xauth. They will be 
> >>> probably ok, so next move will be blaming selinux.
> >>> 
> >> Looks to me like selinux.  I would check your labeling
> >> on xaut ahd maybe on slim.
> > 
> > 
> > $ ps -eZ | grep -i slim
> > 
> > yields nothing because slim is not running.
> > 
> > John
>  Well can you logout of the X session and log in via a
>  termanal or sshd to see what it is running as.
> >>> 
> >>> I guess I don't understand.  The start up process has stopped, 
> >>> systemd says something about 'waiting for plymouth graphical
> >>> boot screen' to end and then stops.  X is not running at this
> >>> point.  I can press ALT+CTRL+F2 to open another terminal
> >>> session and log in to look at /var/log/messages,
> >>> /var/log/slim.log, and /var/log/Xorg.0.log.
> >>> 
> >>> I don't know if this helps, but I tried it again a few minutes
> >>> ago and saw this in /var/log/messages:
> >>> 
> >>> Aug 31 13:17:24 badboy systemd[1]: prefdm.service holdoff time 
> >>> over, scheduling restart. Aug 31 13:17:25 badboy ntpd[1047]: 
> >>> 0.0.0.0 c61c 0c clock_step +0.823605 s Aug 31 13:17:25 badboy 
> >>> ntpd[1047]: 0.0.0.0 c614 04 freq_mode Aug 31 13:17:25 badboy 
> >>> systemd[1]: prefdm.service holdoff time over, scheduling
> >>> restart. Aug 31 13:17:26 badboy systemd[1]: prefdm.service
> >>> holdoff time over, scheduling restart. Aug 31 13:17:26 badboy
> >>> systemd[1]: prefdm.service holdoff time over, scheduling
> >>> restart. Aug 31 13:17:26 badboy systemd[1]: prefdm.service
> >>> holdoff time over, scheduling restart. Aug 31 13:17:26 badboy
> >>> systemd[1]: prefdm.service holdoff time over, scheduling
> >>> restart. Aug 31 13:17:26 badboy systemd[1]: prefdm.service
> >>> start request repeated too quickly, refusing to start.
> >>> 
> >>> 
> >>> 
> >>> Thanks for helping me with this, Daniel.
> >>> 
> >>> 
> >>> John
> >> 
> >> 
> >> Ok get me the output of
> >> 
> >> ausearch -m avc -ts recent or if audit is not runnind
> >> 
> >> dmesg | grep avc
> > 
> > $ sudo ausearch -m avc -ts recent 
> > 
> > $ dmesg | grep -i avc [   79.382138] dbus[1072]: avc:  netlink
> > poll: error 4
> > 
> > Going back a few days I can see that ausearch reports a lot of AVC
> > messages regarding wine-preloader and skype, but I can't imagine
> > they're relevant here.
> > 
> > John
> 
> 
> I guess the question then is are we sure this is an SELinux issue?

I don't think it is, which is why I filed my bug against slim and not selinux.

https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=733944

If we've ruled out SELinux, what else could it be?

John

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